Current Natural Progress

[Epic1]

There are not many words what describe a person like you but I will dig deep and try my best - Do you know the first sh1t a newborn baby has? thats you son!

The black tar poop that never ends!

[BG]

No, we dont sign on "once per week". I'm on here, like many other Vets, once, maybe twice daily.

"You are what brought AR down and you need a break - but since that'll never happen, we all know your too proud - just ban me."

"Brought AR down"? Who are you too say the staff members are bringing "AR down"? With a join date of Jul 2009, your nothing but a new kid on the block.. Well, not on the block yet.

All I see here (from you) is some crusade against the Vets. If your not happy here? No one is stopping you from never signing in again...If Vets are "fools" and your not happy with the advice we give and think we, "sign in once per week", you know where the door is.

^^^^Well said X 2, go, you are not needed here and by talking shit to us when we werent even talking to you, you are not wanted...again go some where else.

Like Swifto said we are on here everyday, we may not post , but we catch almost every thread and thats why this has came about. We read all the threads, heard your boy telling eveyone "natural" progress when hes done 5-6 cycles in less then 5 years, he's full of shit, trying to make himself out to be something he isnt is. All he has done is taken proven ways of dieting and renamed them his own little way and jumps on every newb he has the chance to....."PM me ,Ill walk you through my calorie surge"....come on are fuc'n kidding me.

I hate to repeat myself, but I will, you guys have a problem with us, the way Fireguy and I are "butt buddie's", find another board to pull your shit on, theres plenty of them.

[energizer bunny]

Ha - half these vets come on once a week. That's worse IMO than where a person gives advice. Never once have I heard Dedic8ed claim to be natty - only elaborate how important a proper diet and training program is.

Mere months ago - vets were smart. Now that a lot of the great ones have left - we're stuck with these fools. Yes you will say "Fool? I've been doing this longer than you and blah, blah." ... Well maybe you vets need to take a break - your causing fights for no reason.

Ever since Fireguy became a Vet him and BG became butt buddies, they gang up on just about everything they can see - retarded.

You are what brought AR down and you need a break - but since that'll never happen, we all know your too proud - just ban me.

You all idiots for starting this fight.

This my friend is adding to the fire......and putting petrol on top..

to say that these vets have brought AR down is far from the truth....i actually think that this is a strong line up of mods and vets.....and prob the best we have had in a few years.....

i think you have done a great job on your physique and will be a respected member oneday......BUT your above statements show you have a while to go yet....

[marcus300]

Swifto - this wasn't directed towards you at all - and it isn't directed towards all the rest of the vets either, just the ones who posted above, starting the fight.

It's to the ones who came into this thread, ignored the OP's questions and comments completely, and began to all pick at a person, starting a fight.

Swifto - ask most of the people here - I'm far from confrontational and if you read through my posts you will see how many conflicts I've avoided, how many times I've backed up the vets and how 99% of my posts are constructive and aimed to helping others and learning whatever is new to me.

This was the various few above and my piece is over, I don't want this ongoing. I'm tired of them starting things and making everyone else out to be the 'bad guys'... They too aren't 'all knowing'.

What do you think is going to happen when you come on here slaging vets and mods off! we have known each other for a long time, it maybe just the Internet but we are a strong team and respect each other immensely. Again your statements are false, which vet or mod comes on here once a week? you have no idea what your talking about! Your starting to frustrate me now which isn't a good sign.

All you are is a young kid who thinks he knows it all, you was on here 3 months ago asking questions and now your answering questions what you was asking 3 months ago, you haven't even used any of the chemicals your talking about, I even saw you advicing one guy who had been training longer than you have been alive.

Your trying to create a false world and I am sorry but your bubble as just been burst,

My advice is to turn around, turn your bedroom light off, go downstairs to your mummy, get on the sofa and play with your Rubik's cube and try and show your mummy that you can complete 2 sides of it, get some warm milk and go to bed and dont turn your computer on again for a few years, oh unless you actually finish the cube then i'd like to know about it.

[BG]

Its a shame how people see things.I'm the major target of a smear campaign by vets who don't appreciate the close personal attention I provide the rite individual who I can see has what it takes to just focus on the task at hand,put excuses aside and complete the task at hand.What's important is that you see my focus is your success.??

If your so honest and on the up and up why would you go to your threads back in 08' and change your stats in 09' ??? Your full of shit.....6 weeks into Test E/Equipoise

[BG]

Your trying to create a false world and I am sorry but your bubble as just been burst,

My advice is to turn around, turn your bedroom light off, go downstairs to your mummy, get on the sofa and play with your Rubik's cube and try and show your mummy that you can complete 2 sides of it, get some warm milk and go to bed and dont turn your computer on again for a few years, oh unless you actually finish the cube then i'd like to know about it.

[FireGuy]

Ha - half these vets come on once a week. That's worse IMO than where a person gives advice. Never once have I heard Dedic8ed claim to be natty - only elaborate how important a proper diet and training program is.

Mere months ago - vets were smart. Now that a lot of the great ones have left - we're stuck with these fools. Yes you will say "Fool? I've been doing this longer than you and blah, blah." ... Well maybe you vets need to take a break - your causing fights for no reason.

Ever since Fireguy became a Vet him and BG became butt buddies, they gang up on just about everything they can see - retarded.

You are what brought AR down and you need a break - but since that'll never happen, we all know your too proud - just ban me.

You all idiots for starting this fight.

Maybe you shoud read post #5 in this thread then.
2005-2009 long road to my best.

[Swifto]

Swifto - this wasn't directed towards you at all - and it isn't directed towards all the rest of the vets either, just the ones who posted above, starting the fight.

It's to the ones who came into this thread, ignored the OP's questions and comments completely, and began to all pick at a person, starting a fight.

Swifto - ask most of the people here - I'm far from confrontational and if you read through my posts you will see how many conflicts I've avoided, how many times I've backed up the vets and how 99% of my posts are constructive and aimed to helping others and learning whatever is new to me.

This was the various few above and my piece is over, I don't want this ongoing. I'm tired of them starting things and making everyone else out to be the 'bad guys'... They too aren't 'all knowing'.

Now your backtracking.

I suggest you dont use "Vets" as such a generalised statement. But I think you know what you meant.

I dont have time to go through your posts and wouldnt bother if I did anyway. I'm calling it how I see it and after paying a small amount of time watching your posts I can see you have an agenda.

Dedica8ed is nothing but a bullshitter and if you choose to support that, dont go moaning and crying when you get burned then play the victim.

[MuscleScience]

Now your backtracking.

I suggest you dont use "Vets" as such a generalised statement. But I think you know what you meant.

I dont have time to go through your posts and wouldnt bother if I did anyway. I'm calling it how I see it and after paying a small amount of time watching your posts I can see you have an agenda.

Dedica8ed is nothing but a bullshitter and if you choose to support that, dont go moaning and crying when you get burned then play the victim.

I second that good post swifto. I have kept my mouth shut as long as I can. Its time that the my way or the highway approach is left at the door. I am a University Educated exercise professional and hold my CSCS which is very rigorous. I would certainly never use this approach when advising someone about diet and exercise. The Reason, because there are guys out there like fireguy that could put me in my place all day long as far as competition readiness and diet. Or guys like BG who lives the BB lifestyle that could motivate anyone and will go the extra mile to help out. How do I know this, because Fireguy has caught me when I was wrong on something. BG has more than gone out of his way to help me since I started on this board and go more into the bodybuilding lifestyle.

They are VETS for a reason, because they are time tested and peer approved. I respect both guys tremendously. This isnt a Staff vs the up and comers. I was once an upstart not to long ago. It is guys who care about the board and helping people achieve their goals safely and effectively. If you guys only knew how much time most VETS spend on this board you would think we get a paycheck, We DONT!!!

[Mooseman33]

question,
if someone took a cycle years ago, and never has touched it again then decided 3 years later to do a sample contest prep, without any chems.
would it be considered a natural prep? seeing how u used zero chems to get to that point considering the juice u used years ago has no bearing on ur results?

or once u use u can never claim natural again?

not trying to get involved here,believe me, i had that battle, just a question for the vets, considering most have posted in this thread.

[MuscleScience]

question,
if someone took a cycle years ago, and never has touched it again then decided 3 years later to do a sample contest prep, without any chems.
would it be considered a natural prep? seeing how u used zero chems to get to that point considering the juice u used years ago has no bearing on ur results?

or once u use u can never claim natural again?

not trying to get involved here,believe me, i had that battle, just a question for the vets, considering most have posted in this thread.

Generally yes, Research shows at least in competitive power lifters that past use of AAS still gives them a competitive advantage vs those peers who have never used. The proposed mechanism is the increase in satelite cell fusion with skeletal muscle cells which permanently increases the nuclei number of the muscle fiber.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16059740?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez. Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.P ubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles& logdbfrom=pubmed

The morphological appearance of the vastus lateralis (VL) muscle from high-level power-lifters on long-term anabolic steroid supplementation (PAS) and power-lifters never taking anabolic steroids (P) was compared. The effects of long- and short-term supplementation were compared. Enzyme-immunohistochemical investigations were performed to assess muscle fiber type composition, fiber area, number of myonuclei per fiber, internal myonuclei, myonuclear domains and proportion of satellite cells. The PAS group had larger type I, IIA, IIAB and IIC fiber areas (p<0.05). The number of myonuclei/fiber and the proportion of central nuclei were significantly higher in the PAS group (p<0.05). Similar results were seen in the trapezius muscle (T) but additionally, in T the proportion of fibers expressing developmental myosin isoforms was higher in the PAS group compared to the P group. Further, in VL, the PAS group had significantly larger nuclear domains in fibers containing > or = 5 myonuclei. The results of AS on VL morphology in this study were similar to previously reported short-term effects of AS on VL. The initial effects from AS appear to be maintained for several years.

[FireGuy]

question,
if someone took a cycle years ago, and never has touched it again then decided 3 years later to do a sample contest prep, without any chems.
would it be considered a natural prep? seeing how u used zero chems to get to that point considering the juice u used years ago has no bearing on ur results?

or once u use u can never claim natural again?

not trying to get involved here,believe me, i had that battle, just a question for the vets, considering most have posted in this thread.

There are different opinions on this, as far as I am concerned being natural is like being a virgin,once you cross the line you lose that status forever. You can compete in a "natural show" once you are clean anywheres from 2-7 years depending on the organization.

When I stated earlier in this thread I competed naturally for over 15 years it was COMPLETELY natural. Nothing was ever used that you could not walk up and buy at GNC. If Dedicated thinks running over a half dozen cycles then being clean for 6-8 months qualifies as "natural" well...draw your own conclusions on whether you find that deceptive or not. I guess if we all follow that line of thinking once a drug has cleared our system we are all "natural" again.

[Mooseman33]

thanks for the insight fellas.

so it is impossible to be natural on TRT correct?

again, thanks for reponses, they both were on point..
one built on science and one from personal/proffesional view.

[Bigmax]

Agree once you cross the line....no way to claim your natural again...

[Bigmax]

I have to say that as im reading this thread I can say that BG, Marcus, Fireguy, swifto all my bro's and fellow VETS and HOFer's are acting with integrity and are handling this situation correctly...they see a person that have underlying reasons and see dishonesty and are acting on it...There is a reason we are VETS and HOFer's...we have earned this...thru our help and accomplishments whether it be on here or in the gym or on stage.It should be respected...

[Mooseman33]

what about TRT, that makes u not natural correct?

[FireGuy]

what about TRT, that makes u not natural correct?

I would say that is correct, there is debate as to whether you would still qualify for a natural show. I was talking with a natural competitor just last week about this very topic. But I would say if you are supplementing your body with testosterone you are not natural.

[Mooseman33]

thanks fireguy for ur response.

[FireGuy]

Also, to the above statement, with some of the near cycle level of TRT scripts being written I am skeptical about TRT in natural shows. If there was a way to prove they were staying within acceptable levels I may have a differing view. Too easy to "accidently" pull the syringe back an extra line or so while self administering TRT.

[Mooseman33]

thats what i was thinking cause i see guys that are on different amounts of test for TRT.
and isnt TRT still givin g u more then the norm of test in ur body?

[xnotoriousx]

Also, to the above statement, with some of the near cycle level of TRT scripts being written I am skeptical about TRT in natural shows. If there was a way to prove they were staying within acceptable levels I may have a differing view. Too easy to "accidently" pull the syringe back an extra line or so while self administering TRT.

What about trust fireguy?

[Swifto]

Also, to the above statement, with some of the near cycle level of TRT scripts being written I am skeptical about TRT in natural shows. If there was a way to prove they were staying within acceptable levels I may have a differing view. Too easy to "accidently" pull the syringe back an extra line or so while self administering TRT.

True.

Being on HRT, your going to be right up there in the highest of ranges too IMHO (well I would be). Where as a fellow competitor may not be.

[Deltasaurus]

dedic8ted meant he was natural this time cutting, he has juiced before but he meant he was doing this cut naturally. thats what i grabbed from talking to him anyway.

[Deltasaurus]

either way though he is far from natural, i consider anything more than creatine or no-xplode unnatural pro-hormones whatever its all the same to me

[dedic8ed1]

Maybe you shoud read post #5 in this thread then.
2005-2009 long road to my best.

In the first pic 05 I did a brief stint of Equipoise and what turned out to be bunk winny,clearly..The other pics that were commented on as cut I was on no gear.The defination of natty is misconstrued.I said over and over I have use but no more.

Now your backtracking.

I suggest you dont use "Vets" as such a generalised statement. But I think you know what you meant.

I dont have time to go through your posts and wouldnt bother if I did anyway. I'm calling it how I see it and after paying a small amount of time watching your posts I can see you have an agenda.

Dedica8ed is nothing but a bullshitter and if you choose to support that, dont go moaning and crying when you get burned then play the victim.

I'm not a bullshitter pal.I put all my cards on the table when I first got here.
A little bit about me

There are different opinions on this, as far as I am concerned being natural is like being a virgin,once you cross the line you lose that status forever. You can compete in a "natural show" once you are clean anywheres from 2-7 years depending on the organization.

When I stated earlier in this thread I competed naturally for over 15 years it was COMPLETELY natural. Nothing was ever used that you could not walk up and buy at GNC. If Dedicated thinks running over a half dozen cycles then being clean for 6-8 months qualifies as "natural" well...draw your own conclusions on whether you find that deceptive or not. I guess if we all follow that line of thinking once a drug has cleared our system we are all "natural" again.

So I'm a bullshitter because I was still on gear from 8 months before I started my last cutter.

dedic8ted meant he was natural this time cutting, he has juiced before but he meant he was doing this cut naturally. thats what i grabbed from talking to him anyway.

EXACTLY!!!!!

either way though he is far from natural, i consider anything more than creatine or no-xplode unnatural pro-hormones whatever its all the same to me

In regards to using before and no longer using I see the point of everyone's argument.

[dedic8ed1]

I'm completly embarassed.The fine line of claiming natural with previous use didn't seem that big a deal to me when I was dieting over the last 24 weeks with no gear at all even if my last cycle was 8 months previous and before that 05,I worked my butt off and said I did gear in the past to be very clear.I would like to say that my own words did provoke this drama.I was very excited at my results and just wanted to kinda break off and do something different by "Taking someone under my wing" and showing them what worked for me.I meant no harm and had no idea it would come to me being insulted and even worse called a liar.I can honestly say which I'm sure at this point doesn't mean anything to the staff.I thought I was a member in good standing here.I was very honest when I got here about the things I went through in life and how bodybuilding changed that.I surprised myself in the last diet trial I did because drugs were always a short cut for me in life.Using no drugs to get in my best condition was a goal I needed to reach for my own personal reasons.I have been here since 06 .I've witnessed a lot of drama but none on this level and never imagined I'd be the center of it.What I define as natural training after use of gear was defined differently by,well people that know more then me.

My sincere regrets for the confusion to the staff and I just want to help others achieve there goals.

[energizer bunny]

well said........lets all just move on.....i think everyone has made their points clear....and now we should try and move forward........dedicated1 maybe make a thread...inviting people to have your help on the open board.......so others can help aswell...

[BG]

LMAO you need to become a politician, nice damage control. Thing is you never answered why you went back to your thread from 08' and just recently once we came down on you edited your stats. You have been lying for a while now, we have been watching you and waiting, not letting you go to far. Your full of shit, you first tried to turn this against us......now your embarrassed, you got to be kidding me! You even had BIG go back and delete many of your post, not just to keep your cycle history under raps, but to make your image look better if someone were to do a search. We need to make a sticky about you so everyone can be warned not to be pulled in by your lies.

[Deltasaurus]

This thread is awesome, all in all i see where everyone is coming from, this thread got totally hi-jacked btw lol but ya, this is a very educational thread

~AJ

[Swifto]

LMAO you need to become a politician, nice damage control. Thing is you never answered why you went back to your thread from 08' and just recently once we came down on you edited your stats. You have been lying for a while now, we have been watching you and waiting, not letting you go to far. Your full of shit, you first tried to turn this against us......now your embarrassed, you got to be kidding me! You even had BIG go back and delete many of your post, not just to keep your cycle history under raps, but to make your image look better if someone were to do a search. We need to make a sticky about you so everyone can be warned not to be pulled in by your lies.

Agreed.

I'm not a bullshitter pal.I put all my cards on the table when I first got here.
A little bit about me

I'm completly embarassed.The fine line of claiming natural with previous use didn't seem that big a deal to me when I was dieting over the last 24 weeks with no gear at all even if my last cycle was 8 months previous and before that 05,I worked my butt off and said I did gear in the past to be very clear.I would like to say that my own words did provoke this drama.I was very excited at my results and just wanted to kinda break off and do something different by "Taking someone under my wing" and showing them what worked for me.I meant no harm and had no idea it would come to me being insulted and even worse called a liar.I can honestly say which I'm sure at this point doesn't mean anything to the staff.I thought I was a member in good standing here.I was very honest when I got here about the things I went through in life and how bodybuilding changed that.I surprised myself in the last diet trial I did because drugs were always a short cut for me in life.Using no drugs to get in my best condition was a goal I needed to reach for my own personal reasons.I have been here since 06 .I've witnessed a lot of drama but none on this level and never imagined I'd be the center of it.What I define as natural training after use of gear was defined differently by,well people that know more then me.

My sincere regrets for the confusion to the staff and I just want to help others achieve there goals.

You sir, are full of shit.

The only person your mugging off is yourself. Just remember that.

[energizer bunny]

we should all be banned for hi jacking the thread!!! LOL

[dedic8ed1]

LMAO you need to become a politician, nice damage control. Thing is you never answered why you went back to your thread from 08' and just recently once we came down on you edited your stats. You have been lying for a while now, we have been watching you and waiting, not letting you go to far. Your full of shit, you first tried to turn this against us......now your embarrassed, you got to be kidding me! You even had BIG go back and delete many of your post, not just to keep your cycle history under raps, but to make your image look better if someone were to do a search. We need to make a sticky about you so everyone can be warned not to be pulled in by your lies.

Edited in May that's when I removed "edited" my pics that's the thread I said I had removed In order to no longer influence drug use..There was other text in the post not my weight.But at this point Mr text message tuff guy I can see your just too cool to reason with.Also if my image was so important would I post my low point in my life?

[dedic8ed1]

Agreed.









You sir, are full of shit.

The only person your mugging off is yourself. Just remember that.

I took the high road said my peace accept it or not.

[xnotoriousx]

Damn I should have got some popcorn for this one

[Mooseman33]

this man came on here and admitted he was wrong. he took blame for causing this whole mess, he took responsibilty..
why cant u guys let it go, why feel the need to continue to slam the guy. u are doing nothing constructive, or helpful for the board by doing this.
not many would come back to a thread where almost all vets chewed him up and spit him out, and say he was sorry, say he was at fault.
come on guys, lets put it to bed...
swifto, ur th best man, u have helped me so much over the years, i just told u that couple weeks ago, i will forever be in ur debt for ur past advise.
BG- well, we know where we stand but u still gave me some awsome advice man, ur advice is huge around here,..
but cmon guys, ur point has been made, let this one die. u will still be watching, and im glad u do, but lets put this one to bed.

like always, no disrespect meant, just want things to chill guys.

[Swifto]

this man came on here and admitted he was wrong. he took blame for causing this whole mess, he took responsibilty..
why cant u guys let it go, why feel the need to continue to slam the guy. u are doing nothing constructive, or helpful for the board by doing this.
not many would come back to a thread where almost all vets chewed him up and spit him out, and say he was sorry, say he was at fault.
come on guys, lets put it to bed...
swifto, ur th best man, u have helped me so much over the years, i just told u that couple weeks ago, i will forever be in ur debt for ur past advise.
BG- well, we know where we stand but u still gave me some awsome advice man, ur advice is huge around here,..
but cmon guys, ur point has been made, let this one die. u will still be watching, and im glad u do, but lets put this one to bed.

like always, no disrespect meant, just want things to chill guys.

Your not in my debt. Thats what I'm here for.

Thanks for your kind words mate.

[**TOP**]

what about TRT, that makes u not natural correct?

Like fireguy said there is much debate period!! If you break it down technically adding creatine is not natural. Your body doesnt produce that much! Excessive amounts of protein is not natural.So really its all in who you ask! I used to think steroids were cheating and anyone who took them were losers and i stayed natural for a long time,but ive come to realize thats not the case! Just because you juice doesnt mean your gonna hit 70 home runs or be the next Mr O! But like i said its all about who you ask! 10 years ago i would have had a different answer than i do now about this NATURAL question!! It actually boils down to whats legal not natural! If in ten years creatine becomes illegal people will look at it like its steroids also!!

[FireGuy]

Like fireguy said there is much debate period!! If you break it down technically adding creatine is not natural. Your body doesnt produce that much! Excessive amounts of protein is not natural.So really its all in who you ask! I used to think steroids were cheating and anyone who took them were losers and i stayed natural for a long time,but ive come to realize thats not the case! Just because you juice doesnt mean your gonna hit 70 home runs or be the next Mr O! But like i said its all about who you ask! 10 years ago i would have had a different answer than i do now about this NATURAL question!! It actually boils down to whats legal not natural! If in ten years creatine becomes illegal people will look at it like its steroids also!!

I think you are blurring the line much more than needed. While your points may have some merit, for this conversation and as it applies to competitive bodybuilding natural means no use of AAS. You could go as far as to say lifting weights isnt natural if we wanted to really go sidebar.

[Reed]

interesting....

[energizer bunny]

^^^^ are you refering to the whole thread??