"Putin vows 'arms race' response"

**Prada** · 02-08-2008, 11:20 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7234817.stm

Russia's President Vladimir Putin says the world is engaged in a new arms race and Nato is failing to accommodate Russia's concerns.

In a nationally-televised speech, he condemned Nato's expansion and the US plan to include Poland and the Czech Republic in a missile defence shield.

"It is already clear that a new phase in the arms race is unfolding in the world," Mr Putin said.

"It is not our fault, because we did not start it," he said.

Mr Putin was speaking less than a month before Russians elect his successor.

In his speech, to the State Council - Russia's top politicians, officials and generals - he said other countries were spending far more than Russia on new weapons.

But Russia would always respond to the challenges of a new arms race by developing more hi-tech weaponry, he said.

Military muscle

Referring to Nato's activities in Central and Eastern Europe, Mr Putin said "there are many discussions on these, but... we have still not seen any real steps towards finding a compromise".

"In effect, we are forced to retaliate, to take corresponding decisions. Russia has, and always will have, responses to these new challenges," he said.

In December, Russia said it was planning naval exercises in the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean.

It has also resumed long-range patrols by its bomber aircraft.

The practice was suspended after the collapse of the Soviet Union and was revived last August, as part of a more assertive foreign policy pursued by President Putin.

Higher oil prices have enabled Russia to re-invest in its armed forces, but its military capabilities remain far below what they were during the Soviet era.

The BBC's World Affairs correspondent Nick Childs says Mr Putin's language will add to growing worries in the West about Russia's new assertiveness.

Our correspondent says there was a time when Moscow appeared weakened, short of money, preoccupied with domestic problems, and relatively passive in terms of foreign policy.

But he says it is clear that Mr Putin is sending a none-too-subtle message that Russia is back on the international stage.

**Flagg** · 02-09-2008, 11:55 AM

I don't know who is going to supercede Putin or what his replacement will be like, but i'm glad he's going. He's doing/done his best to alienate Russia from The West.

**Kärnfysikern** · 02-09-2008, 02:03 PM

The west isnt realy inocent in this. NATO is doing just as much to alienate russia.

**soulstealer** · 02-09-2008, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Flagg

I don't know who is going to supercede Putin or what his replacement will be like, but i'm glad he's going. He's doing/done his best to alienate Russia from The West.

Putin isnt actually going.... he'll still be pulling the strings...

**Lexed** · 02-09-2008, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by soulstealer

Putin isnt actually going.... he'll still be pulling the strings...

yep..

**thegodfather** · 02-09-2008, 04:06 PM

I find it quite hypocritical that we're sitting here talking about him alienating Russia when in reality all he is trying to do is provide a strong national defense for his country. Russia pales in comparison to the United States as far as flexing it's military power and being rather Imperialistic.

**soulstealer** · 02-09-2008, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by thegodfather

I find it quite hypocritical that we're sitting here talking about him alienating Russia when in reality all he is trying to do is provide a strong national defense for his country. Russia pales in comparison to the United States as far as flexing it's military power and being rather Imperialistic.

I agree to an extent Our politicians act like we are god like any the only one who has any right to military power.... When infact a truly democratic state would acknowledge that every sovereign entity has a right to defend it self...

**Flagg** · 02-09-2008, 06:17 PM

He once stated he was the worlds last Democrat.

**Prada** · 02-10-2008, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Flagg

I don't know who is going to supercede Putin or what his replacement will be like, but i'm glad he's going. He's doing/done his best to alienate Russia from The West.

Not really, Dmitry Medvedev has openly stated that he would like to have Putin as his PM, if elected. That is if Medvedev wins the elections which he will.

Originally Posted by thegodfather

I find it quite hypocritical that we're sitting here talking about him alienating Russia when in reality all he is trying to do is provide a strong national defense for his country. Russia pales in comparison to the United States as far as flexing it's military power and being rather Imperialistic.

Agreed, I think it has every right to do what it is doing, knowing its power in recent history. Economically speaking they can commence allocating more money into military and operation as in the flying long range bombers. Something that hasnt been done in decades.
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007..._298_17_07.txt

Originally Posted by flagg

He once stated he was the worlds last Democrat.

Really? I didnt read that one, based on what grounds does he argue that? Id like to read into that if you have it.
He once stated he was the worlds last Democrat.

**gixxerboy1** · 02-10-2008, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by thegodfather

I find it quite hypocritical that we're sitting here talking about him alienating Russia when in reality all he is trying to do is provide a strong national defense for his country. Russia pales in comparison to the United States as far as flexing it's military power and being rather Imperialistic.

I agree. Russia isnt doing anything we dont.

Putin isnt gonig anyplace. He will be Pm and still run the show

**Kärnfysikern** · 02-10-2008, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Prada

Really? I didnt read that one, based on what grounds does he argue that? Id like to read into that if you have it.
He once stated he was the worlds last Democrat.

I'm the world's only true democrat, says Putin
http://www.reuters.com/article/world...4?feedType=RSS

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia's President Vladimir Putin has described himself as the world's only "pure" democrat and attacked the United States and Europe, which have criticized him, for falling short of their own ideals.

In an interview with Western media released on Monday, he rejected Western criticism that he has centralized power in the Kremlin, marginalized the opposition and increased state control over the media.

Asked whether he agreed with former German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's description of him as an "impeccable democrat", Putin replied lau***ng:

"Of course I am an absolute, pure democrat. But you know the problem? It's not even a problem, it's a real tragedy. The thing is that I am the only one, there just aren't any others in the world."

Putin said the West's record on democracy was less than perfect.

"Let's look what happens in North America -- sheer horror: torture, the homeless, Guantanamo, keeping people in custody without trial or investigation," Putin said in the interview ahead of this week's summit of the Group of Eight (G-8) industrial nations.

"Look what's going on in Europe: the harsh treatment of demonstrators, the use of rubber bullets, tear gas in one capital or another, the killing of demonstrators in the streets."

He also attacked post-Soviet Ukraine for "completely violating the constitution and all its laws" and heading for "complete tyranny" -- an apparent reference to the political deadlock between rival factions over the calling of fresh elections.

"After the death of Mahatma Gandhi there's nobody to talk to," he concluded, referring to the Indian leader who championed civil rights and non-violent resistance to tyranny.

Asked whether there was any move in Russia towards a return to totalitarian rule, Putin simply said: "That is complete rubbish, don't believe that."

**Prada** · 02-12-2008, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Kärnfysikern

I'm the world's only true democrat, says Putin
http://www.reuters.com/article/world...4?feedType=RSS

Thanks.

I hope he is being facetious. Boy the guys got a bigger nutsac then your raccoon J.

**Kratos** · 02-12-2008, 04:40 PM

They should just build that weapon they had in the movie Dr. Strangelove.

"Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you *keep* it a *secret*! Why didn't you tell the world, EH?"

**Kärnfysikern** · 02-13-2008, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Prada

Thanks.

I hope he is being facetious. Boy the guys got a bigger nutsac then your raccoon J.

All the power is probably making his nuts grow mighty big.

**Roidal** · 02-13-2008, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by Flagg

I don't know who is going to supercede Putin or what his replacement will be like, but i'm glad he's going. He's doing/done his best to alienate Russia from The West.

Just another old KGB comrade, they're all running the show in Moscow right now.

**Teabagger** · 02-14-2008, 09:31 AM

I'm against the expansion of NATO, we don't need it, and it is outdated anyway. I can understand Russia's concern. No different than if Canada and Mexico had joined the Warsaw Pact.

But his bluster about an arms race is bs. Russia is broke...........

**Pooks** · 02-14-2008, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Teabagger

I'm against the expansion of NATO, we don't need it, and it is outdated anyway. I can understand Russia's concern. No different than if Canada and Mexico had joined the Warsaw Pact.

But his bluster about an arms race is bs. Russia is broke...........

Arm races always defy budgets.. hell look at our national debt as an example hehe...

Russia BTW is making a killing on Oil, and Steel, and other commodities, during these times of rising inflation and racked up national debts on fiat currencies around the world..

The common man in Russia might be doing awful, but there are some seriously rich people there as well... I don't really know the facts on how Russian govern's itself but looking at the wide gap between the rich and the poor, they might be more of a anarcho-capitalist type of nation, than we are... we might be way more socialist with our neverending web of funded welfare programs.

**Logan13** · 02-15-2008, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by thegodfather

I find it quite hypocritical that we're sitting here talking about him alienating Russia when in reality all he is trying to do is provide a strong national defense for his country. Russia pales in comparison to the United States as far as flexing it's military power and being rather Imperialistic.

Maybe Russia and China will nuke the US in order to free you from all the tyranny you are living under here presently. I think that you had better figure out which team you are on...

**Prada** · 02-15-2008, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Logan13

Maybe Russia and China will nuke the US in order to free you from all the tyranny you are living under here presently. I think that you had better figure out which team you are on...

How did you cerebrate that hypothesis?

**Kärnfysikern** · 02-15-2008, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Logan13

Maybe Russia and China will nuke the US in order to free you from all the tyranny you are living under here presently. I think that you had better figure out which team you are on...

So its Russia and China vs the US again? When did that happen.

**Logan13** · 02-15-2008, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Prada

How did you cerebrate that hypothesis?

someone who wants to whine about the US and back Russia in this discussion needs a big dose of reality.

**Kärnfysikern** · 02-15-2008, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Logan13

someone who wants to whine about the US and back Russia in this discussion needs a big dose of reality.

So if russia wants to build a missile shield in mexico, just for defensive purposed offcourse, you would not think that is a insult towards america?

**Pooks** · 02-15-2008, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Kärnfysikern

So if russia wants to build a missile shield in mexico, just for defensive purposed offcourse, you would not think that is a insult towards america?

haha if they did that, we'd blast them with all our nukes.. and THEY know this.

**Logan13** · 02-15-2008, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Kärnfysikern

So if russia wants to build a missile shield in mexico, just for defensive purposed offcourse, you would not think that is a insult towards america?

When this becomes reality and not theory, we will discuss....
Until then, one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.
We have been through this, it is a defensive weapon.

**Pooks** · 02-15-2008, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Logan13

When this becomes reality and not theory, we will discuss....
Until then, one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.
We have been through this, it is a defensive weapon.

YEP USA still number 1..

Russia couldn't deploy such a system, even if they wanted too.. hell maybe the really want too.. but can't... why can't they..

cause of USA!! haha Russia OWNED.

**Kärnfysikern** · 02-15-2008, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by Logan13

When this becomes reality and not theory, we will discuss....
Until then, one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.
We have been through this, it is a defensive weapon.

One has everything to do with the other, you and me both know that if that where to happen you would find it incredibly offensive. I dont understand your inability to look at this from a russian perspective? It doesnt matter if it is a defensive weapon or not. What matter is that it is souring the relation betwen Russia and NATO and no body gains from that. Its obvious to everyone on this planet, except you and Bush, that it is a incredibly offensive and insulting move.

Do you realy think the world will be a more secure place if america builds a completely useless missile shield in former warszawa pact countries and at the same time make a enemy of russia again?

If you want the word to become more secure enter into more stringent disarmament treaties with russia. Megatons to megawatts was a hell of a good start, imagine if someone during the cold war had said that around the year 2000 a large chunk of american electricity will be produced by uranium formerly used in warheads targeted at american cities.

**Pooks** · 02-15-2008, 04:56 PM

That's a child's argument..." look at it from my own viewpoint" "u're such a hypocrite" etc...

those are arguments made by the powerless, and those out of control.
That's what Russia is .. its like an adolescant.. Its trying to rebel but it can't, cause its weaker..

so lets look at it from the perspective on the United States.. U have this belligerent Russia, trying to act tough and big again..

Its a defeated Nation, trying to restore itself to past glory...

Like when Mike Tyson went up against Evander Holyfield for the second time..
he couln't do anything, other than bite Evander on the leg, and the ear..
and than just get knocked out...

so yeah Russia is still a danger.. so this shield is not useless. it has a major purpose to when ti comes to pack-order in the World.

it shields Europe and the United States from Russia, and keeps the two of us, more prominent and influencial in the world, than Russia.

**Logan13** · 02-15-2008, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by Pooks

That's a child's argument..." look at it from my own viewpoint" "u're such a hypocrite" etc...

those are arguments made by the powerless, and those out of control.
That's what Russia is .. its like an adolescant.. Its trying to rebel but it can't, cause its weaker..

so lets look at it from the perspective on the United States.. U have this belligerent Russia, trying to act tough and big again..

Its a defeated Nation, trying to restore itself to past glory...

Like when Mike Tyson went up against Evander Holyfield for the second time..
he couln't do anything, other than bite Evander on the leg, and the ear..
and than just get knocked out...

so yeah Russia is still a danger.. so this shield is not useless. it has a major purpose to when ti comes to pack-order in the World.

it shields Europe and the United States from Russia, and keeps the two of us, more prominent and influencial in the world, than Russia.

Thank you for taking the time. I'm tired of replying to the same shit over and over.

**Kärnfysikern** · 02-15-2008, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Pooks

That's a child's argument..." look at it from my own viewpoint" "u're such a hypocrite" etc...

those are arguments made by the powerless, and those out of control.
That's what Russia is .. its like an adolescant.. Its trying to rebel but it can't, cause its weaker..

so lets look at it from the perspective on the United States.. U have this belligerent Russia, trying to act tough and big again..

Its a defeated Nation, trying to restore itself to past glory...

Like when Mike Tyson went up against Evander Holyfield for the second time..
he couln't do anything, other than bite Evander on the leg, and the ear..
and than just get knocked out...

so yeah Russia is still a danger.. so this shield is not useless. it has a major purpose to when ti comes to pack-order in the World.

it shields Europe and the United States from Russia, and keeps the two of us, more prominent and influencial in the world, than Russia.

The shield is completely and utterly useless. You are aware that Russia has more operational nuclear warheads than america?

The shield could perhaps stop a few ICBM if its lucky, but it could do nothing against a full scale attack from any of the major nuclear powers. Even china with just around 200 nukes could easily overwhelm it.

Not to mention it wouldnt do a thing against nuclear weapons launched from subs.

What should be done is that russia and the us agree to limit their nuclear stockpile to a few hundred nukes. More then enough for detereant and it will limit the risk of a nuke falling into the wrong hands alot.

**Kärnfysikern** · 02-15-2008, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Logan13

Thank you for taking the time. I'm tired of replying to the same shit over and over.

Yupp. good old USA can never do anything wrong and is always right no matter what.

**Pooks** · 02-15-2008, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Kärnfysikern

Yupp. good old USA can never do anything wrong and is always right no matter what.

I dont know the real purpose of the shield, but maybe it proves itself of use some day.

but.. We are blowing up a rogue sattelite soon! ..

I wish they'd stick a cam on that warhead, and we could watch it fly and hit.

**Logan13** · 02-15-2008, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Kärnfysikern

Yupp. good old USA can never do anything wrong and is always right no matter what.

alright.

**thegodfather** · 02-15-2008, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by Pooks

That's a child's argument..." look at it from my own viewpoint" "u're such a hypocrite" etc...

those are arguments made by the powerless, and those out of control.
That's what Russia is .. its like an adolescant.. Its trying to rebel but it can't, cause its weaker..

so lets look at it from the perspective on the United States.. U have this belligerent Russia, trying to act tough and big again..

Its a defeated Nation, trying to restore itself to past glory...

Like when Mike Tyson went up against Evander Holyfield for the second time..
he couln't do anything, other than bite Evander on the leg, and the ear..
and than just get knocked out...

so yeah Russia is still a danger.. so this shield is not useless. it has a major purpose to when ti comes to pack-order in the World.

it shields Europe and the United States from Russia, and keeps the two of us, more prominent and influencial in the world, than Russia.

Wow....very impressive. That was a nice way to reduce your thinking to that of a neandrathal, pre homosapien type thinking right there. "The strong control the weak." Is that how it is? What an arrogant attitude to have about the rest of the world. Just because you are the most powerful, does not necessarily mean that you should do whatever the hell you please on any given day, and say screw you to the rest of the world. You think that because we are the worlds #1 superpower that we can run around and do whatever we like, piss off other nations, and say tough shit do something about it? How bout that, are you willing to risk YOUR mom, dad, son, brother, or sisters life to do so? Until then, you might want to keep your opinions and blazen disregard to other humans in the world to yourself.

I thought that Imperialism ended shortly after the 1800s? Perhaps I was mistaken, there still seem to be simple minded people in the world that think we should be able to control other SOVEREIGN entitys. What a crock of shit. We sure do talk a big game about being the example to the rest of the world for individual liberty, but our countries actions and policies sure do contraindict that.

ARROGANT.... Definition:
making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud:

Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance.

having or showing feelings of unwarranted importance out of overbearing pride;

**Pooks** · 02-15-2008, 06:41 PM

Its only arrogance if its based on ignorance..

this is not..

these are facts.
We are the alpha-nation..

like the Alpha-male guys get the chicks, and the loser does not.
The same concept works with nations.
The strong get the resources, the weak do not.

This is a human condition, this is normal.
All other thinking, is socialist marxist brainwashing, that sadly begins in this country once we enter school and get exposed to Teachers.

Teachers are gov't workers, who get paid by BIG GOVT.
they are socialists.

u need to realize that 12+ years of your life you are being trained to act the opposite of what is natural..

people need to take control over their own lifes and responsibilities once you are on your own,.. or u'll end up just another democratic vote, giving your money to them in tax form, and not even sure why u do it.. but it has something to do with being 'good'.

being 'good' cause you give the government money.

**** THAT!!

be good by keeping that money, and spend it on opening a business, and hire people..

GO RON PAUL!
Ron Paul is a republican for a reason.
its the lesser of 2 evils.. Democrats are fascists haehe

**Logan13** · 02-16-2008, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by thegodfather

Wow....very impressive. That was a nice way to reduce your thinking to that of a neandrathal, pre homosapien type thinking right there. "The strong control the weak." Is that how it is? What an arrogant attitude to have about the rest of the world. Just because you are the most powerful, does not necessarily mean that you should do whatever the hell you please on any given day, and say screw you to the rest of the world. You think that because we are the worlds #1 superpower that we can run around and do whatever we like, piss off other nations, and say tough shit do something about it? How bout that, are you willing to risk YOUR mom, dad, son, brother, or sisters life to do so? Until then, you might want to keep your opinions and blazen disregard to other humans in the world to yourself.

I thought that Imperialism ended shortly after the 1800s? Perhaps I was mistaken, there still seem to be simple minded people in the world that think we should be able to control other SOVEREIGN entitys. What a crock of shit. We sure do talk a big game about being the example to the rest of the world for individual liberty, but our countries actions and policies sure do contraindict that.

ARROGANT.... Definition:
making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud:

Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance.

having or showing feelings of unwarranted importance out of overbearing pride;

another post by you that attempts to discredit the US...........

**Prada** · 02-16-2008, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Logan13

someone who wants to whine about the US and back Russia in this discussion needs a big dose of reality.

Do you not ever question the motives of your own government? Or do you indiscriminately and blindly give the green card to all their actions? Even when Bill Clinton was in power?

In my case its not a question of backing one or the other, it is the analysis of actions and reactions.

Originally Posted by POOKS

I dont know the real purpose of the shield, but maybe it proves itself of use some day.

Ahh but perhaps you should ask yourself this question.

**Logan13** · 02-16-2008, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Prada

Do you not ever question the motives of your own government? Or do you indiscriminately and blindly give the green card to all their actions? Even when Bill Clinton was in power?

In my case its not a question of backing one or the other, it is the analysis of actions and reactions.

Ahh but perhaps you should ask yourself this question.

It is not that someone questions their gov't's motives, is that this is all that they do. To believe that you or anyone else here knows the inner workings of matters which you are not privy to is silly. There are supporters and detractors. Many of these detractors in here are 20-something YO college students who do not have the experience to know any better. They are just modern versions of the "Hippy"...........

**thegodfather** · 02-16-2008, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Logan13

It is not that someone questions their gov't's motives, is that this is all that they do. To believe that you or anyone else here knows the inner workings of matters which you are not privy to is silly. There are supporters and detractors. Many of these detractors in here are 20-something YO college students who do not have the experience to know any better. They are just modern versions of the "Hippy"...........

Being critical of your government is an essential part to any well functioning healthy "Democracy." Your post would insinuate that I detest every single action and policy of this government, and that is just not the case. However, there are key significant issues to which I do strongly oppose. I make posts which I feel support my position. I'm sorry, or rather I'm not, if I post news articles and threads which make the United States look like a complete joke and utterly hypocritical.

I am however very sorry, if you do not have the ability to look at issues from more than just ONE perspective. That is extremely narrow minded, and not the type of behavior I would expect from a well educated professional such as yourself. To dismiss the correlation between a US missile shield in a neighboring country to Russia, as a Russian missile shield in Mexico. To dismiss such a valid point is narrow minded arrogance.

**Kärnfysikern** · 02-16-2008, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Logan13

It is not that someone questions their gov't's motives, is that this is all that they do. To believe that you or anyone else here knows the inner workings of matters which you are not privy to is silly. There are supporters and detractors. Many of these detractors in here are 20-something YO college students who do not have the experience to know any better. They are just modern versions of the "Hippy"...........

And we all know age is the number one indicator of intelligence and knoweledge.

**Kärnfysikern** · 02-16-2008, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by thegodfather

I am however very sorry, if you do not have the ability to look at issues from more than just ONE perspective. That is extremely narrow minded, and not the type of behavior I would expect from a well educated professional such as yourself. To dismiss the correlation between a US missile shield in a neighboring country to Russia, as a Russian missile shield in Mexico. To dismiss such a valid point is narrow minded arrogance.