Goodbye Freedom...Hello Communism

[rhino1]

thank you

[Panzerfaust]

Its a little deeper than that. It isn't easy for everyone to grasp it. The economy is bigger than a few people with bad credit buying houses but ok. GO OBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


GOP, racists, Bush, Republicans, last remaining red states:

Actually it is more like this:

American people by themselves!

[Dukkit]

i miss bill clinton

im moving to canada

[rhino1]

Actually it is more like this:

American people by themselves!

Took the words right out of my mouth

[korsow]

U people saying your moving to canada Do realize they are in fact a socialist country right? Not saying there's anything wrong with it tho :-) I like canada

[Flagg]

I wish Republicans would chill the eff out about the socialism thing though. Obama is not a socialist, and he's not even what would be considered a social democrat. Take a look at Europe you're going to have to admit that we have a bunch of stable, free, pro-western, social democratic countries in Europe. None of them have gone belly-up, their economies are working, and they have plenty of rich people. And that's with a system that's much more socialist than what Obama has promised. In conclusion, chill the eff out. Nobody is going to take away all your money, and you're not turning into Soviet Russia.

My degree will finish in 3-4 years time. At the end of that, i'll find this thread and bump it and we'll see if everyone will be in Americanised Gulags at that stage.

[BgMc31]

More scare tactics! They didn't work for McCain and its not gonna work in the future.

[DeputyLoneWolf]

More scare tactics! They didn't work for McCain and its not gonna work in the future.

Scare tactics my a**.

So now that we have a black president I'm guessing you and all other black people will feel more empowered and inclined to be successful and not say the deck is stacked against them... I doubt it... Oh and when Obama fails to give you everyting he promised are you going to say he's a traitor to your race, or just makes excuses for him?

[SMCengineer]

Thats why Im neither democratic nor republican....independent conservative...

the patriot act is to protect you....just wait until you cant freely speak your mind

Someone who calls themselves a conservative, yet thinks the Patriot Act "protects us" has a clear misunderstanding of what conservatism actually means. This kind of legislation used to be called "progressivism," yet now so called "conservatives" believe it's in our best interests for the government to have the ability to forgo the 4th amendment in the name of protection.

The mortgage/housing crisis can trace its roots to after 2001. Also sub prime mortgages are a small piece of the puzzle. If you understand the crisis you would know this. It has more to do with property value drops and an inability to get second mortgages as a result to spend more debt on worthless items.

The culmination of poor monetary policy and bad legislation can be traced to after 2001, but all the factors that caused this were in place far before the Bush administration came into office. An expansive monetary supply was at the root of the problem, which allowed for poor legislation and lending practices that otherwise would not have been possible in the free market. The Community Reinvestment Act is a perfect example of a symptom of easy credit and it was a major contributor to current crisis. Deregulation, the other factor that liberals love to lay blame on, was actually crucial in mitigating the effects of the failure of firms like Bear Stearns and Merril Lynch.

The prosperity experienced during the Clinton administration increased Americans buying power and allowed more people than ever to purchase homes.

Are you caliming we had benign deflation to point that CPI actually decreased? The prosperity experienced during the Clinton years had little to do with Clinton and much to do with the dot com boom. The inevitable bust of the dot com era was experienced during the Bush administration because artificial bubbles always burst, but this is a result of boom/bust cycles not presidential policies.

After the Bush election a recession happened.

This is a common miconception that liberals make when referring to the economy. It's not at all possible for a president to have such a dramatic effect on the economy that after only 6 months in office it goes into a recession. Yes, there was a recession when Bush got into office, but it was caused by the dot com bubble bursting, which was years in the making. Currently, the housing market is bursting and we will experience a recession just as Obama enters office, would you say that his policies caused it? I don't think you will.

Rates were dropped by the fed. People took low interest 2nd mortgages on their homes and spent money like crazy. At the same time people took variable rate mortgages to afford homes they really couldnt afford. When the rates caught up to them and the mortgages payments became too high they lost their homes. Then the market was flooded with available housing hurting values of real estate. Now peoples equity in their homes isn't there to take out second mortgages to blow money they dont have and our economy has suffered as a result. All of this began about 6 years ago. DURING THE BUSH YEARS.

True, all a result of poor legislation and lending practices made possible before the Bush administration came into office. Bush and Greenspan just made the mistake of encouraging such poor practices.

[Flagg]

Scare tactics my a**.

So now that we have a black president I'm guessing you and all other black people will feel more empowered and inclined to be successful and not say the deck is stacked against them... I doubt it... Oh and when Obama fails to give you everyting he promised are you going to say he's a traitor to your race, or just makes excuses for him?

What grounds do you have that Obama will not deliver on any of his promises? And this is going on you believing that McCain WOULD have delivered on all his promises and again, I ask, what grounds do you have to believe that either?

[korsow]

U know, before this election I kinda considered my self indipendant, sad to say, I thought bush was a good candidate in 00,, I was wrong, didnt want him back in office in 04, yet people did put him back afterall.. well, this time around, Im calling my self a democrat, because I cant comprehend how people can be soo negative about a candidate just because their own candidate hasn't won.. When kerry lost, I accepted it, and supported bush since he was the president.. Why cant republicans just give the guy a chance? He's gonna be tehre for at least 4 years, so just suck it up, he might actually be good for the country...

[T_Own]

I have to agree that I am sick of picking the "lesser of 2 evils". Thats why Im neither democratic nor republican....independent conservative...

Lol...I had a feeling you would be the first to respond...

It's real fvcked up...too many hidden agendas....no true patriots left

thats how my mom put it too.. but she is more of a republican. she believes in the tax cuts they propose and not how obama wants to take her money when she was the one who worked hard in college to get the job she has now.

my dad and i both voted democrat. i won't get into the issues any more than saying i don't see the problem in taxing the rich. over 200k a year? i know my parents could afford a few thousand more in taxes..

i said this to one of my friends today, who is a hardcore republican; I don't see why the republicans get all up in arms over it, if mccain had won doubt the democrats would throw a temper tantrum like this.

i know i for one would not. if mccain had won i would have been a little disappointed, but not in hysterics over how the apocalypse is coming to america now.


the last thing, being black myself, i really don't think that black people in general feel "empowered" by this, or that they will riot over it. quite the contrary, in that the white people and many of the old fashioned people will be over the edge with emotions that a black man now runs their beloved country.

[thegodfather]

my dad and i both voted democrat. i won't get into the issues any more than saying i don't see the problem in taxing the rich. over 200k a year? i know my parents could afford a few thousand more in taxes..

Because for one, $200,000/year is not even close to rich. I dont know if I could even live comfortably on that amount. That is NOT a lot of money.

Second, do "rich" people use any greater amount of public resources that taxes pay for then poor people? No, they do not. Why should they pay a significantly higher portion of taxes to use an equal amount of public resources. Rich people dont use "more of the roads" than a person of lesser income, so the logic to tax them more is ridiculous in my opinion. Just because you think they can afford it doesn't mean they can. A person making $200,000 a year might have 3 kids in college that he's paying for, a mortgage, paying for his 3 kids cars, maybe wants to take a vacation now and then. People in that pay range are normal people like everyone else, with the same sorts of bills and obligations as a person making $50,000/year, the ony difference is the number. You are advocating wealth redistribution, which is a socialist ideology. Progressive taxation is unfair.

[rhino1]

Because for one, $200,000/year is not even close to rich. I dont know if I could even live comfortably on that amount. That is NOT a lot of money.

Second, do "rich" people use any greater amount of public resources that taxes pay for then poor people? No, they do not. Why should they pay a significantly higher portion of taxes to use an equal amount of public resources. Rich people dont use "more of the roads" than a person of lesser income, so the logic to tax them more is ridiculous in my opinion. Just because you think they can afford it doesn't mean they can. A person making $200,000 a year might have 3 kids in college that he's paying for, a mortgage, paying for his 3 kids cars, maybe wants to take a vacation now and then. People in that pay range are normal people like everyone else, with the same sorts of bills and obligations as a person making $50,000/year, the ony difference is the number. You are advocating wealth redistribution, which is a socialist ideology. Progressive taxation is unfair.

agreed...

[T_Own]

are you serious? you don't think 200,000 is considered rich?

"In 2006, there were approximately 116,011,000 households in the United States. 1.93% of all households had annual incomes exceeding $250,000"

"97.33% of all of american households make less than $200,000 a year."

"United States national median household income $ 48,023"

yeah its real rough living on around $350,000 a year.. we only get a new bmw every third year.. really sad isn't it?

[rhino1]

no i dont think 200k/year is rich....thats another reason this policy sucks....it should stll be FAIR....just because you have more doesn't mean im entitled to it...

why cant there be a flat %

if you make 10$/hr and get taxed 10%....you loose 1$/hr

if you make 100$/hr and get taxed 10%....you loose 10$/hr

[T_Own]

what would you define as rich then? my family makes a little bit more than that but never in my life have we been tight for cash or held back from something because of a lack of money. it allows for quite a comfortable lifestyle, which not many people have if you look at the numbers up higher

you can't have a flat rate because so few people make enough money to actually be able to generate significant taxes. as it is, the top 10% of incomes account for ~+75% of all taxes.

[rhino1]

what would you define as rich then? my family makes a little bit more than that but never in my life have we been tight for cash or held back from something because of a lack of money. it allows for quite a comfortable lifestyle, which not many people have if you look at the numbers up higher

you can't have a flat rate because so few people make enough money to actually be able to generate significant taxes. as it is, the top 10% of incomes account for ~+75% of all taxes.

Didn't think of that....touche'......

what is rich...I dont know....I suppose if you spend your money wisely as you decribed your family doing that could be rich....rich isn't a good word to use...you can easily make 10 mil a year(which many consider rich) and still be a broke mo fo....It is actually a very difficult situation to gauge...i guess that is why it is such a hot topic

[T_Own]

well that is true. my mom is the poster child for wisely spending money. she makes a good amount at her job, but saves like no other, and basically bought our house in cash to avoid any mortgage rates. she also looks at everything as an investment from house cars stocks, even to her kids. my sister is a pretty good soccer player so my mom pays out the ass to have her travel around the country (even out of it sometimes) with her team to get exposed, and it paid off because she got a full scholarship for soccer. so in her eyes, 20k now saving 160k later

[rhino1]

well that is true. my mom is the poster child for wisely spending money. she makes a good amount at her job, but saves like no other, and basically bought our house in cash to avoid any mortgage rates. she also looks at everything as an investment from house cars stocks, even to her kids. my sister is a pretty good soccer player so my mom pays out the ass to have her travel around the country (even out of it sometimes) with her team to get exposed, and it paid off because she got a full scholarship for soccer. so in her eyes, 20k now saving 160k later

thats cool...i am slowly working that way...would have been there...but i got a girl pregnant and then she drained me hahah....

even if that wouldn't have happened i would have probably spent it all on GH

[korsow]

200k/year?? U guys farking kidding me? Not rich? There are people out there with 5 to 6 kids, living just fine off of a 100k income, home picket fence, etc.. U know 200k is like 14-16k a month after taxes right? if that aint rich then fark if I know what rich is.. and I live in the northwest where shiz is expensive.

[thegodfather]

what would you define as rich then? my family makes a little bit more than that but never in my life have we been tight for cash or held back from something because of a lack of money. it allows for quite a comfortable lifestyle, which not many people have if you look at the numbers up higher

you can't have a flat rate because so few people make enough money to actually be able to generate significant taxes. as it is, the top 10% of incomes account for ~+75% of all taxes.

Less revenue is better... Not one single dollar...not one single CENT of the Federal income tax goes towards paying A SINGLE PUBLIC SERVICE THAT WE USE. NOT A DOLLAR OF IT. $0.00....

EVERY SINGLE LAST DOLLAR of the Federal Income tax pays the INTEREST ALONE on the money the Federal Reserve CHARGES US to print for us. Yes, they charge us interest to print our money for us.

So in essence, the Federal income tax just allows "government largesse"... It allows us to wage wars against SOVEREIGN nations that have done nothing to us, and engage in various other methods of wasteful spending like the Department of Homeland Security...


If we recued government spending to the total budget of fiscal year 2000. We could operate the country effectively without a single dollar in Federal income tax money.... That is an undisputeable F A C T.

[rhino1]

Less revenue is better... Not one single dollar...not one single CENT of the Federal income tax goes towards paying A SINGLE PUBLIC SERVICE THAT WE USE. NOT A DOLLAR OF IT. $0.00....

EVERY SINGLE LAST DOLLAR of the Federal Income tax pays the INTEREST ALONE on the money the Federal Reserve CHARGES US to print for us. Yes, they charge us interest to print our money for us.

So in essence, the Federal income tax just allows "government largesse"... It allows us to wage wars against SOVEREIGN nations that have done nothing to us, and engage in various other methods of wasteful spending like the Department of Homeland Security...


If we recued government spending to the total budget of fiscal year 2000. We could operate the country effectively without a single dollar in Federal income tax money.... That is an undisputeable F A C T.

interesting

[korsow]

ORLY? what about the military for one?

[T_Own]

Less revenue is better... Not one single dollar...not one single CENT of the Federal income tax goes towards paying A SINGLE PUBLIC SERVICE THAT WE USE. NOT A DOLLAR OF IT. $0.00....

EVERY SINGLE LAST DOLLAR of the Federal Income tax pays the INTEREST ALONE on the money the Federal Reserve CHARGES US to print for us. Yes, they charge us interest to print our money for us.

So in essence, the Federal income tax just allows "government largesse"... It allows us to wage wars against SOVEREIGN nations that have done nothing to us, and engage in various other methods of wasteful spending like the Department of Homeland Security...


If we recued government spending to the total budget of fiscal year 2000. We could operate the country effectively without a single dollar in Federal income tax money.... That is an undisputeable F A C T.

oh i don't doubt that at all. i'm just basing it off of what it is now, not what it could/should be

[batlin]

200k/year?? U guys farking kidding me? Not rich? There are people out there with 5 to 6 kids, living just fine off of a 100k income, home picket fence, etc.. U know 200k is like 14-16k a month after taxes right? if that aint rich then fark if I know what rich is.. and I live in the northwest where shiz is expensive.

More like about 10 K per month after taxes..... or 5K per month now that Ossama is in office

[batlin]

Well its official...Barak Hussein Obama is our new leader....

Ill go ahead and say my allegiance now

I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the United States of Obama, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under Obama, indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for NO ONE!

Im SICK

Agreed! Hey man, I drank my self to sleep the other night when I say he was going to win.. wanna move to Mexico with me? least gear is legal there!

I personally Like my money.. and don't like to give it away.. I don't donate to charity because in my opinion my taxes are my charity..

Now that House, Senate and Pres are Democrat.. god help us all........

Did anyone out there listen to the interviews that Howard Stern did? They went out to a predominantly Black neighborhood and asked people "what about Obama's policies do you agree with the most?" and when they named off the policies they named off all of McCain's policies "pro-life, stay in iraq etc" and they all said they liked them all and they felt all of those policies matched how they felt... which right there they are voting for him because they are the same race... not because they like him, know about it or his policies... sickening

Here it is.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqAiarOhC2U

[T_Own]

Agreed! Hey man, I drank my self to sleep the other night when I say he was going to win.. wanna move to Mexico with me? least gear is legal there!

I personally Like my money.. and don't like to give it away.. I don't donate to charity because in my opinion my taxes are my charity..

Now that House, Senate and Pres are Democrat.. god help us all........

Did anyone out there listen to the interviews that Howard Stern did? They went out to a predominantly Black neighborhood and asked people "what about Obama's policies do you agree with the most?" and when they named off the policies they named off all of McCain's policies "pro-life, stay in iraq etc" and they all said they liked them all and they felt all of those policies matched how they felt... which right there they are voting for him because they are the same race... not because they like him, know about it or his policies... sickening

Here it is.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqAiarOhC2U

so because there is one uneducated neighborhood you think its sickening? how about you open your eyes to the MILLIONS of republicans who are having a heart attack at the thought of a black president? the same people that would probably give away their first born to keep him out of office, and then think about what is sickening. a few people who really don't know any better because they probably didn't have the opportunity, or millions of ignorant racists who could care less about 1 word mccain has to say, just as long as the black guy doesn't win.

[rhino1]

Believe or not...I would really love to see a TRUE conservitive BLACK male or female run against obama next election...

Not some country club republican who is actually a right sided lib with hidden agendas and alterior motives

That would really get his feathers ruffled

[batlin]

Believe or not...I would really love to see a TRUE conservitive BLACK male or female run against obama next election...

Not some country club republican who is actually a right sided lib with hidden agendas and alterior motives

That would really get his feathers ruffled

I agree, Hell I would vote for Condoleezza Rice.. hell even Colin Powell..

[korsow]

obama will only raise taxes by 4% for people in teh 250k bracket..

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politic...-tax30.article

[j4ever41]

sorry i dont make above 250k but i see no need for that tax bracket to go back to 39% and in the bracket that i am in it does'nt look like i am going to get any break because i itemize instead of given across the board cuts they always want to target them to people they think are deserving of a break. there is no such thing as cheating on taxes..

[DeputyLoneWolf]

What grounds do you have that Obama will not deliver on any of his promises? And this is going on you believing that McCain WOULD have delivered on all his promises and again, I ask, what grounds do you have to believe that either?

What grounds? are you kidding? he's just an empty suit and was constantly promising everyone the world so he would get elected. Time will prove he's full of crap.

And I'm going to say "see I told you so, idiot!"

[korsow]

Deputy thats your opinion lol

Im gonna say the same thing to you minus the idiot part, since I think the idiot part is not worth it, since if that was the case, everyone that voted for bush would be an idiot..

Once obama is proven to be an awsome leader of course :-p

[rhino1]

What grounds? are you kidding? he's just an empty suit and was constantly promising everyone the world so he would get elected. Time will prove he's full of crap.

And I'm going to say "see I told you so, idiot!"

Yea...cant wait to laugh in their face and say the same thing....

Its gonna be hillarious when Condy beats him next election....Black and female....GAMEOVER