I hope we are proud of ourselves (graphic pics)

**jimmyinkedup** · 01-05-2009, 04:00 PM

^^^ i expressed my view re: the us smoke...i just wanted to keep it real here....
No the israelis are directly responsible for their own behavior. We(US)and they(UK) are not responsible directly for their behavior....that is not accurate ...we are guilty of supplying them with them means and not intervening when the course of action that was immoral and criminal was pursued....and given the history of israel u r correct we should never have supplied them with the means we have to support this kind of overt terrorism. LIke i said of all people the israleis should be very familiar with crimes against humanity...yet they purvey one right before all our eyes and we sit and watch it unfold....we are ALL to blame...same thing in darfour.....criminal...some like the US hold a larger share of the blame...thats all.....

**Matt** · 01-05-2009, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

How about you brits chew on this fact for a few mins?

In 2007 Israel was the UK's 3rd largest export market ........
while certain trade unions have boycotted israel.....the uk continues to be a leading importer as far as importing to israel compared to other middle eastern countries
hmmmmmmmm

Agreed i cant argue with that but at least our prime minister is asking the israelis to stop... If Bush did the same it would stop now..

**smokethedays** · 01-05-2009, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by MAD MATT

Agreed i cant argue with that but at least our prime minister is asking the israelis to stop... If Bush did the same it would stop now..

I agree, somewhat.

**jimmyinkedup** · 01-05-2009, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by MAD MATT

Agreed i cant argue with that but at least our prime minister is asking the israelis to stop... If Bush did the same it would stop now..

i agree...it is embarassing actually much worse than that ..it is criminal to watch this unfold and not intervine...

**Matt** · 01-05-2009, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

^^^ i expressed my view re: the us smoke...i just wanted to keep it real here....
No the israelis are directly responsible for their own behavior. We(US)and they(UK) are not responsible directly for their behavior....that is not accurate ...we are guilty of supplying them with them means and not intervening when the course of action that was immoral and criminal was pursued....and given the history of israel u r correct we should never have supplied them with the means we have to support this kind of overt terrorism. LIke i said of all people the israleis should be very familiar with crimes against humanity...yet they purvey one right before all our eyes and we sit and watch it unfold....we are ALL to blame...same thing in darfour.....criminal...some like the US hold a larger share of the blame...thats all.....

Makes sense to me and like ive said im not proud of the way our leaders (meaning the UK) are and have delt with israel, I would like to see an end to the support israel gets from the UK..

**xlxBigSexyxlx** · 01-05-2009, 05:16 PM

I mean, if a group of people shot at me and had the intention to kill me. I would do anything possible to blow the mother****ers off the planet

Wether or not they are hiding behind women and children, civilian casualties are a part of war...sadly enough

**T_Own** · 01-05-2009, 05:23 PM

i don't have time to answer, but this thread really shows how ill-informed some people are...

**amcon** · 01-05-2009, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by smokethedays

Matter of fact, they keep in track of who and how much is donated to them. And try to complicate it if is from the US. I have friends here who want to send money there but they can't. They got to do it hand to hand in Jordan and some one will exchange it there. How sad!!!

politely, this is the underlining thread that is woven in to every thing you say about this ... you have friends there that (and rightly so )is the reason why you are so one sided... me i am unattached to either side - and try to look at it objectively... though obviously i have a thought on why this is happening... and i realize that this feels like

's but your not able to be objective on the subject cause you are to close to it(again, with just reason to feel that way)

**peachfuzz** · 01-05-2009, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by gst528i

WHY INSTEAD OF BICKERING BETWEEN OURSELVES DONT WE DO SOMETHING CREATIVE.
Pray for them, pray for their souls, pray for thier family.
Give one minute of your life and say a prayer, that will have done more than arguing among ourselves. We all know this is wrong, wheather some of you feel it is justified or not i am sure no one on this board wants to see children dead.

maybe some of you didnt read this guys post...so here it is again.

**amcon** · 01-05-2009, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by MAD MATT

amcon im going to leave you with this because it sums you up.

At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in the room is now dumer for having listened to it. i do award you no points and may God have mercy on your sole..

do you believe in a god? who? and that god allows you to talk like that? nice walk with your faith...

**amcon** · 01-05-2009, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

was it horrific how they thought around oh say 62 years ago in europe...when london was in shambles...rubble..... next in line to fall..... was it horrific how those yanks thought...when they stormed normandy ...when they had no national borders under attack from germany...yet they aided their allies and the world for a greater good? British and french especailly...so damn uppity, better than attitudes.. some british and all the french have thoase attitudes ..and such short damn memories.....

iTS NOT THAT I AGREE WITH HIS POST NOT AT ALL...BUT I DEF DIAGREE WITH YOURS....

lol ... good point

**amcon** · 01-05-2009, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by smokethedays

Check you out, Mr. Information CNN guy

smoke the days, y dont you send him your google spot that you get all your info... (i had to much caffien today) and every thing i hear from you too just rubs me the wrong way, your intitled to your oppinion of coarse - but thinking america is the BAD guy here ... such shame! all the other counties have the former soviet unions bombs and guns and tanks and planes and choppers and everthing else... that is ok y?

**amcon** · 01-05-2009, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by smokethedays

How about a REAL fact here, both Americans and Brits are resposible for Israel's behavior feeling free to do what ever it wants beginning with stealing land ending up with total anihilation of Palestinians.

Resting on the fact that US and UK "got their back".

wow, after that statement i would guess that you didnt grow up with any discipline - i will teach you something real quick - people have to take responsibility for their own actions !!!! the can not go around and blame everone else... do you already know that?

**Matt** · 01-05-2009, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by peachfuzz

maybe some of you didnt read this guys post...so here it is again.

Agreed, ive since read it again, its all we can do..

**amcon** · 01-05-2009, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by MAD MATT

Agreed, ive since read it again, its all we can do..

agreed!!! unfortunately that is all we can do

**smokethedays** · 01-05-2009, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by amcon

wow, after that statement i would guess that you didnt grow up with any discipline - i will teach you something real quick - people have to take responsibility for their own actions !!!! the can not go around and blame everone else... do you already know that?

Listen ass hole, say wt ever you want, just don't cross the line. Leave my personal life alone.

You doing so shows nothing but how much of low life and ignorant you are.

You seriously are a kid. A low life kid, straight of the alleys and grabage bins.

**thegodfather** · 01-05-2009, 06:37 PM

Someone mentioned that Hamas hides among the Palestinian people, as if this is somehow their fault that Israel is slaughtering innocent people?

I will break it down for those of you who cannot grasp the simple concepts at work here. Hamas is trying to resist an occupier who has more money, resources, power, and soldiers than they have. Hamas does not have a formal army or the resources to mount a defense in a CONVENTIONAL manner. Therefore, they engage in covert warfare where they attack the Israeli people in order to discourage their enemy from fighting. It is a very effective tactic and is not the first time it has been used in history. We call them terrorists, while a large number of people call them people fighting for their freedom, fighting to oust an occupier.

You can look throughout history and see that many oppressed people have resorted to this tactic, often labeled as 'terrorism' in order to defend themselves.

**Panzerfaust** · 01-05-2009, 07:31 PM

Ok, lets take a brief look at the creation of this Israeli state as it is now known:

Creation of the Israeli state occured in 1948, this was brought about by the British as they controlled this area roughly between 1917-1948. Arabs rioted and protested this snatching of land and at the time no "Jews" were allowed to live in the area unless they were rich (in that days terms) so Jewish immigration did not affect Palestinian way of life blah blah blah

As Hitler began kicking the Jews out of Germany, immigration sky rocketed and the Palestinians were none to thrilled and led a large scale rebellion, the British finally intervened and proposed to seperate the area into a Jewish area and a Palestinian area with Britain maintaining control, this was shot down.

The war is now over and the Jews demand they be given a state in Palestinian territory. WWII left massive amounts of Jews as refugee's and in 1946 they flawked to Palestinian land which saw a rise in illegal immigration and Britain responded by rounding up a bunch of these Jews and arrested them holding them without trial. The Jews began to revolt against Britain and Britain arrested more Jews and placed them in Palestine all paid for by the taxes placed on Jewish community in Palestine. Basically Britain saw that these Jews would not leave the area so they began releasing Jews to Palestine at a certain rate per month, kind of like a quota.

Hositility between Jewish and British remained and eventually around 1947 a partition of land was created with the idea one be Jewish the other Arab. Jerusalem being directly controlled by the UN. Britain did not go along completely and kept imprisoning Jews and denied UN access. Britain relinquished this standpoint in 1949.

The thing to note here is that this fighting that we see today began in 1947 immediately after this "agreement" to partition land giving some to Israel and some to Palestinians. "The Arab States declared they would greet any attempt to form a Jewish state with war and leaders of the Palestinian-Arab community promised a "fight to the death". Sound familiar?

There is so much more to read on this subject but you can now kinda get the idea of whose land this was and how this came about. Some Jews even state this land was "given" to the "Jews" by Britain because the Jews promised to get the United States involved in WWII (which the British were losing at that point). America enters the war, the Nazi's are defeated and the Jews are goven their state 2yrs later and all hell breaks loose as the Palestinians are kinda pissed that they are forced onto a 223 mile strip of land.

-------------------

It is easy to find out about the United States involvment with Israel and Israel's grip on the US. The Israeli's depend on the US economically and Militarily. The Palestinians are firing homemade rockets into Isreal while Israel reponds with top of the line artillery and air superiority.

Palestine attacking Israel is about the equivelant of Mexico attacking the United States. Sure, Mexico would kill some people but when we attack them we kill far more man y of them due to our extreme military capabilities.

I am not saying right or wrong, those pics further strenghten my disbelief in mankinds ability to give a shit about each other. I simply do not belief that Israel is a victim here. They simply do as they will with America standing right behind them saying "Ok, go ahead...do what you will...we support you so the UN nor the rest of the world can say anything against you".

I am reading more now regarding the history of this conflict....this displaced people (Jews) have caused havoc everywhere they have ever migrated too (Russia, Europe etc). Does this mean all Jews are bad, of course not and many even disagree with this ridiculous slaughter being carried out as we speak.

I say "I hope we are proud of ourselves" as in America quietly standing by as the UN protest Israel's behaviour. America simply states "Israel has the right to protect itself"...why did we mock and attack Saddam for invading Quwait but allow Israel to invade Gaza? The Palestinians have no chance against an American backed IDF.

America should bitchslap Israel and tell it to back the **** off and settle this shit down. America is only further letting hate fester in the middle east for America. I am sure most in the middle east would love nothing more than to see us drown in our own blood...I mean can you blame them? Try to look at it from their side..all you have ever known is an American backed government opressing and pounding the shit out of you. I think 90% of Gaza residents are malnutritioned thanks to Israeli economic sanctions in the area. Gaza is nothing more than a concentration camp for Palestinians and is extremely densley populated.

**Flagg** · 01-05-2009, 08:51 PM

Terrorists....seems to me that's just something the Big Army calls the Little Army these days.

And isn't this discussion about Israel and Gaza...not who managed to piss higher during WW2 between America and Britain? So probably best to leave that patriotic bullshit at the door for this subject.

How is it though, that just about most world leaders have asked for an immediate cease fire, but Cheney cold heartedly says: "Can Hamas stop firing rockets" ??

Amcon, I don't know who you are, but you need to start supplying sources with these outraegously claims you're making. Unless you're a "95 % r" who's facts are based on personal opinion.

**smokethedays** · 01-05-2009, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by Flagg

Terrorists....seems to me that's just something the Big Army calls the Little Army these days.

And isn't this discussion about Israel and Gaza...not who managed to piss higher during WW2 between America and Britain? So probably best to leave that patriotic bullshit at the door for this subject.

How is it though, that just about most world leaders have asked for an immediate cease fire, but Cheney cold heartedly says: "Can Hamas stop firing rockets" ??

Amcon, I don't know who you are, but you need to start supplying sources with these outraegously claims you're making. Unless you're a "95 % r" who's facts are based on personal opinion.

He is that bro. I've been with other memebers going back and forth with this Amcon dude about FACTS that he just seems to be so ignorant about yet arguing and being offensive.

**Voice of Reason** · 01-05-2009, 11:09 PM

So did anyone give thought to what i said? lets start a revolution brothers, get 5 friends who will get 5 more friends and we will take over the steroid and gun supply of the world!!!

I'm drunk...

**amcon** · 01-05-2009, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by smokethedays

Listen ass hole, say wt ever you want, just don't cross the line. Leave my personal life alone.

You doing so shows nothing but how much of low life and ignorant you are.

You seriously are a kid. A low life kid, straight of the alleys and grabage bins.

lol... you pee on me, swear on me and i hit the nail on the head w your personal live (not because i have ESP or any thing just because it dripps from your attitude)

sorry if i hurt your feelings

**amcon** · 01-05-2009, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by thegodfather

Someone mentioned that Hamas hides among the Palestinian people, as if this is somehow their fault that Israel is slaughtering innocent people?

I will break it down for those of you who cannot grasp the simple concepts at work here. Hamas is trying to resist an occupier who has more money, resources, power, and soldiers than they have. Hamas does not have a formal army or the resources to mount a defense in a CONVENTIONAL manner. Therefore, they engage in covert warfare where they attack the Israeli people in order to discourage their enemy from fighting. It is a very effective tactic and is not the first time it has been used in history. We call them terrorists, while a large number of people call them people fighting for their freedom, fighting to oust an occupier.

You can look throughout history and see that many oppressed people have resorted to this tactic, often labeled as 'terrorism' in order to defend themselves.

the point was that they are doing it and saying they are not... no one wants to see the kids or woman hurt

and remember 200 + rockets a day... not water rockets we played with as kids, bombs aimed at kids and woman and men.

... ditto on both sides

**Panzerfaust** · 01-05-2009, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

So did anyone give thought to what i said? lets start a revolution brothers, get 5 friends who will get 5 more friends and we will take over the steroid and gun supply of the world!!!

I'm drunk...

I'm sorry but I would never allow a drunkard to have my back in a fire fight. Sorry! Your ass is in the rear with the gear!

**amcon** · 01-05-2009, 11:26 PM

"The Arab States declared they would greet any attempt to form a Jewish state with war and leaders of the Palestinian-Arab community promised a "fight to the death". Sound familiar?

and i quote from Gen: 16 :12 promise to one of abraham's decendents you tell me who this fits... "and he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren."

first it can not be israel, they have not been around the middle east long enough... i dont know who it stands for but it fits many countries - looking at lineage would be interesting. any ways ...

**amcon** · 01-05-2009, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

So did anyone give thought to what i said? lets start a revolution brothers, get 5 friends who will get 5 more friends and we will take over the steroid and gun supply of the world!!!

I'm drunk...

ok i want smoketheday hes pissed off and motivated - we'll just tell him american gear is being held up by israel... he will get that done in seconds

(smokethedays smile i made a joke)

**Voice of Reason** · 01-05-2009, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by muriloninja

I'm sorry but I would never allow a drunkard to have my back in a fire fight. Sorry! Your ass is in the rear with the gear!

So I'm stuck doing the glute shots of Test & Tren in the revolution ayy...

So be it, glad to help out my brothers in the fight.

**gst528i** · 01-06-2009, 04:57 AM

You know what they should do. The arab countries and isreal should go find a nice good spot in africa. PLenty of Beautiful land that is not being used.
Than isreal and arabs go half on purchasing the land from one of the governments.
These government desperately need the money and are willing to sell land i kid you not. (im lived there for a few years).
Than over a period of 100 years promise to give the land back by slowly developing that part of africa.
Win Win.

**NightWolf** · 01-06-2009, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by smokethedays

Check you out, Mr. Information CNN guy

No check you out, Mr biased muslim guy

**Edgar** · 01-06-2009, 09:41 AM

war is shit , we live in a world of Nuclear and alot of so called fvcking tough guys around here. as horrible as this shit is, it is nothing to what is coming in the future. I'm sure most of us are going to see and experience Nuclear War. anyone that sees a good reason for death and violance is just a little dumb FVck that dont know no better!

**amcon** · 01-06-2009, 11:33 AM

Definitions of intelligence:

* the ability to comprehend; to understand and profit from experience
* a unit responsible for gathering and interpreting information

Definitions of wisdom:

* accumulated knowledge or erudition or enlightenment
* the trait of utilizing knowledge and experience with common sense and insight
* the quality of being prudent and sensible

lets say your Intelligent - that you have the abilities to learn - that doent make you a doctor? does it?

any ways as for knowing about steroids , were have i commented directly on steroids? when does that other person comment on steroids? as for training and diet i would like the same answers... ?

and yes you are immature at that age... going to college prove your immature, you'll be a man when you have graduated from it, when you have wed, when you have owned a business, when you have had several children, when you have gone through life ... now at 20(if you really are) you are very immature... your language proves it... oxox

sorry posted in the wrong one... oops

**Flagg** · 01-06-2009, 11:38 AM

Israel have just bombed three danish field hospitals.

Source is here, on a Swedish website http://www.vasabladet.fi/wirestory.aspx?storyID=12241 but here is the google translation.

"Israel bombed mobile field hospital

Three Danish mobile field hospitals intended to reduce the pressure on Gaza's overcrowded hospitals have been bombed by Israeli planes. None of the staff were seriously injured in the attack, states the Danish People's Organization Kirkens Relief.

- We have just received photos showing that cars are bombed and completely destroyed. We are shocked that the Israelis go to direct attacks against humanitarian targets. The cars are clearly marked with Red Cross symbols. It is a violation of the Geneva Convention, "says Henrik Stubkjär of the People's Kirkens Relief.

According to the Danish news agency Ritzau field hospitals had not yet been put into service, but was parked outside Gaza City. They were staffed by local doctors and nurses.

On Tuesday, the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) to the Israeli military offensive in the Gaza Strip, causing more and more civilian casualties. The organization calls the situation of a "massive humanitarian crisis."

- At the moment, we are very concerned about the increasing number of civilians killed and injured and the civilian infrastructure, such as hospitals, which have been affected by Israeli operations, "said Pierre Kraehenbuehl of the ICRC. (FNB)"

**Flagg** · 01-06-2009, 11:42 AM

This makes me sick. I guess it's just open season now on Gaza, if Hospitals are now fair game.

**jimmyinkedup** · 01-06-2009, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by amcon

Definitions of intelligence:

* the ability to comprehend; to understand and profit from experience
* a unit responsible for gathering and interpreting information

Definitions of wisdom:

* accumulated knowledge or erudition or enlightenment
* the trait of utilizing knowledge and experience with common sense and insight
* the quality of being prudent and sensible

lets say your Intelligent - that you have the abilities to learn - that doent make you a doctor? does it?

any ways as for knowing about steroids , were have i commented directly on steroids? when does that other person comment on steroids? as for training and diet i would like the same answers... ?

and yes you are immature at that age... going to college prove your immature, you'll be a man when you have graduated from it, when you have wed, when you have owned a business, when you have had several children, when you have gone through life ... now at 20(if you really are) you are very immature... your language proves it... oxox

I think in your zeal you posted this in the wrong thread....

**OH REALLY** · 01-06-2009, 12:18 PM

those pics are horrible.

**binder** · 01-06-2009, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by amcon

WE ARE THE USA NOT THE POLICE... THE WORLD HATES US FOR HELPING THESE PEOPLE AND THOSE PEOPLE.... WE ARE NOT THE UN EITHER

exactly

We as American's are screwed no matter what we do. If we go over seas and try to help a government out we are bastards for getting involved. If we stay out of it and let countries do what they want then we are bastards for not helping out.

So why is it that every other country in the world can just stay out of things and nobody bitches about it? When was the last time Japan or China helped anyone out? That's right, they don't because they are too busy taking over the American economy while everyone praises them for staying out of the world's problems.

To the original poster: like someone else stated, if you are so hell bent on doing something then why not do something? you come onto a message board and say how bad America is and at the same time mention that you are sitting at home well fed and safe. That's exactly what are you complaining about other people doing and you are doing it all along!

**jimmyinkedup** · 01-06-2009, 12:39 PM

^^^ your post brings up some good points and got me thinking. While i think it is fundamentally wrong the way we have established our relationship with israel and provided them with goods and services esp military equipment knowing there involvement in such activites, also we do exert some influence there and as a result of the goods we provided being used to this end we could at the very least vocalize our displeasure with their actions. At the very least. BUT your point is well taken ....why is it that china the ussr and many other countries take part in trade and providing military goods to many nations that engage in crimes against humanity and oppression and are never called to task on it? Why is the US viewed to have to be the consummate good guy? Is it because those other coutries are internationally viewed as "bad guys" so their behavior is expected but why is it Americans should be and are held to a higher standard? I dunno but u raised a good point ....is there some jealously involved internationallly...i dont know im not saying its the case...but there does appear to be a double standard ....As far as this topic i do feel we should express publically through our politicians that we do not condone such actions.....as long as that is truly the american peoples view on it. Thats the politicains jobs...to express and carry out the interests and express the opinions of the people they represent without bais and self interest.

**smokethedays** · 01-06-2009, 03:16 PM

Hugo Chavez said:
“How sad that Israel continues to act as the assassin arm of the Yankee empire,” the president said.

**binder** · 01-06-2009, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

^^^ your post brings up some good points and got me thinking. While i think it is fundamentally wrong the way we have established our relationship with israel and provided them with goods and services esp military equipment knowing there involvement in such activites, also we do exert some influence there and as a result of the goods we provided being used to this end we could at the very least vocalize our displeasure with their actions. At the very least. BUT your point is well taken ....why is it that china the ussr and many other countries take part in trade and providing military goods to many nations that engage in crimes against humanity and oppression and are never called to task on it? Why is the US viewed to have to be the consummate good guy? Is it because those other coutries are internationally viewed as "bad guys" so their behavior is expected but why is it Americans should be and are held to a higher standard? I dunno but u raised a good point ....is there some jealously involved internationallly...i dont know im not saying its the case...but there does appear to be a double standard ....As far as this topic i do feel we should express publically through our politicians that we do not condone such actions.....as long as that is truly the american peoples view on it. Thats the politicains jobs...to express and carry out the interests and express the opinions of the people they represent without bais and self interest.

well said. write congress or your senator. message forums won't help the problem.

after being an army sergeant for 6 years my opinion has changed on America's presence around the world. I think we should just cut off all ties to other countries and stay out of it all. Then all the other countries will realize that we do more good for the world than we do bad. I know we have made bad decisions as a country, but nobody ever recognizes the 365 billion dollars in foriegn aid we give out to 3rd world countries. Funny how they forget that.