I hope we are proud of ourselves (graphic pics)

[Edgar]

Hugo Chavez said:
“How sad that Israel continues to act as the assassin arm of the Yankee empire,” the president said.

bro I respect you man and agree with you on most things, but **** Hugo Chavez hes a piece of shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! who gives a **** what he says!

[Flagg]

Well, the hospitals are aiding and abetting the families of terrorists. And I think they put their WMDs in hospitals.

Well that has to be it, I mean where better to build a WMD than under a hospital or to hide a terrorist cell. I mean it seems as if Hamas are hiding in every nook, crevise and cranny.

"We better blow that graveyard up"
"But why?"
"Hamas are hiding in those coffins"

[smokethedays]

bro I respect you man and agree with you on most things, but **** Hugo Chavez hes a piece of shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! who gives a **** what he says!

What does that have to do with me?!!

I just copied and pasted his quote. Its a direct related issue to the thread. Thats all
I could care less about him or any one else.

[Edgar]

just saying the source Hugo is a turd muffin scumbag with a political agenda, I just hoped you didnt take this guys statements as anything of relevance and value on what is going on. this guy doesnt care anything about anybody in the world not even his own people, so hes statements are always full of shit. that is all. sorry bro my bad!

[Voice of Reason]

These helped me give me some insight:

History of Israel in a Nutshell

History of Israel in a Nutshell 2

The Middle East

[Matt]

These helped me give me some insight:

History of Israel in a Nutshell

History of Israel in a Nutshell 2

The Middle East

I found that very interesting thanks...

[BuffedGuy]

These helped me give me some insight:

History of Israel in a Nutshell

History of Israel in a Nutshell 2

The Middle East

Completely biased and a load of garbage.

Conveniently forgets to mention that the Jewish Israelites slaughtered the Palestinians in their very first conquest, as mentioned in the Hebrew Bible itself.

Huge racist lie that the Palestinians never had a culture or civilization. This video was made by a racist Zionist.

I love how it says that Jews have existed in Palestine for all time...yes they have. Conveniently forgets to mention that only <1% of the population was Jewish and the rest Palestinian. Forgets to mention that there were only 24,000 Jews in Palestine in the 1880s. Oh yes, but that means they've always been there! Yeah right.

The Palestinian population PRECEDED the Israelites. Don't believe me: open your Bible and see how the Hebrew Bible talks about how the Israelites slaughtered the native inhabitants by the Command of God. Just read in the Hebrew Bible how entire cities were razed to the ground by God's Chosen People, how they killed everyone, including women, children, babies, and even unborn fetuses.

Of course Voice of Reason would find it informative: he's a bigot himself. ANYONE who claims the Palestinians were never a people is a racist Zionist. It's like arguing that blacks were never a people.

[BuffedGuy]

Here's a real documentary that explains the situation:

http://www.moviesfoundonline.com/occupation_101.php

[BuffedGuy]

Anyways, I apologize for losing my cool. Let me try explaining this calmly.

The bigoted link posted by "Voice of Reason" pretends as if history began when the Jews came to Palestine. It completely skips over the fact that:

"Somewhere around 12,000 years ago, ancestors of what we now call Arabs began domesticating wild, sheep, oxen and goats in the foothills of Iraq, Iran, and Turkey...Around 10,000 years ago, ancestors of Arabs built the city of Jericho. Jericho is considered the first continuously inhabited city on earth...Jericho is located in what is now called the West Bank, part of the Occupied Territories [i.e. Occupied Palestine]"

(Arabs and Israel For Beginners, by Ron David, pp.16-17)

In other words, the link given by Voice of Reason argues that Jews have continuously inhabited Israel since Moses and the Israelites conquered Palestine. And based on this argument, they claim they have a greater right to Palestine than the Arabs.

Of course, this line of argument is bunk, but let's entertain it anyways. Moses and the first Israelites lived about 3,500 years ago. But the Arabs had been in that territory since 10,000 years ago! So even from this angle, this Zionist argument is defeated.

Let's see what the Israelites did to the native Arabs of that time. We read:

"The Hebrews struck first at Jericho, then 'put the Canaanites to the sword' and Canaanite culture to the torch."

(Arabs and Israel For Beginners, by Ron David, p.33)

So even from this angle, the Zionist argument goes down the drain.

As for the claim that Jews have had a continuous presence in the land, so have the Arabs, as the underlined part above demonstrates.

Furthermore, the weakness in their argument can be shown by simply asking one simple question:

When did the Jews ever form a majority of the population in Palestine? When was the last year they were such? Obviously the sovereignty of a land belongs to those who make up a majority, and we can see from history that the Jews have never made up a majority of Palestine for more than thousands of years. It's like claiming that the Turkish people have a right to Central Asia, because they roamed that place thousands of years ago. Or that the Native Americans have a right to Russia, since they migrated to North America from Russia.

If a thousand Chinese people have lived in California for hundreds of years, does this mean that California is now Chinese land? This logic is truly absurd. Just because a handful of Jews have lived in Palestine doesn't mean the land is theirs. Jews have lived in America ever since its creation; worded the way the link did: the Jews have had a continuous presence in America since it was founded. So does this mean that America should be a Jewish country?

It's absurd. Sovereignty belongs to the MAJORITY of people, and Jews have never been a majority in America or Palestine...at least not for thousands of years.

But again, I will ask Voice of Reason:

1. When was the last time--before the creation of the State of Israel--that the Jews ever formed a majority in the land of Palestine?

2. Furthermore, please explain why a man from Venezuela who converts to Judaism has a right to "return" to Palestine, whereas a Native Palestinian whose ancestors have lived there for hundreds of years has no Right of Return to his land when expelled by Israelis?

[goose]

Very good posts buffedguy.

[smokethedays]

These helped me give me some insight:

History of Israel in a Nutshell

History of Israel in a Nutshell 2

The Middle East

WTF was that?

Pro-Israel kindergarten brain wash presentation?
It sounds like it was made by some low end Zionist agency for kids.

[BuffedGuy]

Very good posts buffedguy.

Thank you.

WTF was that?

Pro-Israel kindergarten brain wash presentation?
It sounds like it was made by some low end Jewish agency for kids.

Akhee, please edit your post to say "Zionist", not Jewish. Jazakh-Allah khair, may Allah [swt] reward you.

[Matt]

Just to make this clear, i thought Voice of Reasons post was interesting, if he believes it to be true then this is his choice. We all believe what we want, true or false, everyone is different.

[Matt]

What id like to know is this and maybe someone may have the answer. What do the israelis want to become of Gaza? Do they want it to become an independent state? An independent country? Just a plot of land that they control? I know they'd like to wipe Gaza off the map, but thats never going to happen. So what is it they want??

[FallenWyvern]

What id like to know is this and maybe someone may have the answer. What do the israelis want to become of Gaza? Do they want it to become an independent state? An independent country? Just a plot of land that they control? I know they'd like to wipe Gaza off the map, but thats never going to happen. So what is it they want??

The recently found natural gas reserves in Gaza?

[smokethedays]

Thank you.



Akhee, please edit your post to say "Zionist", not Jewish. Jazakh-Allah khair, may Allah [swt] reward you.

Edited.

[smokethedays]

What id like to know is this and maybe someone may have the answer. What do the israelis want to become of Gaza? Do they want it to become an independent state? An independent country? Just a plot of land that they control? I know they'd like to wipe Gaza off the map, but thats never going to happen. So what is it they want??

They want to continue building settelments in Gaza and make sure they stay safe, in other words, they Gaza arms free, except for the Jewish settlers in the settelments and if Hamas is wiped out and Abbas rules over Gaza, then they'd propably allow some kind of light weapons for a local Palestinian police.

Generally speaking, Gaza will never be 100% Palestinian occupied, ther are many settlements built and continue to be built there.

[jimmyinkedup]

smoke i wanna ask you this in all seriousness and no disrespect intended. U are now a us citizen correct? What are you doing to evoke change in our policies? Are you playing an active role in your local regional and national politics by voting on all levels and writing congressmen , senators etc... B/c there is alot of anger in your directed twords the US but obviously you personally realize the value of being a part/citizen of this counrty. I agree with some of your points as ive expressed, sometimes your personal anger over rides objective opinion...but hey thats ok ..in the US its even your right. SO bottom line...are you just creating an awareness about what you see as a problem...or are you actively being a part of the solution?

[smokethedays]

smoke i wanna ask you this in all seriousness and no disrespect intended. U are now a us citizen correct? What are you doing to evoke change in our policies? Are you playing an active role in your local regional and national politics by voting on all levels and writing congressmen , senators etc... B/c there is alot of anger in your directed twords the US but obviously you personally realize the value of being a part/citizen of this counrty. I agree with some of your points as ive expressed, sometimes your personal anger over rides objective opinion...but hey thats ok ..in the US its even your right. SO bottom line...are you just creating an awareness about what you see as a problem...or are you actively being a part of the solution?

I am not a US citizen yet. But I don't have to be a US citizen to spread awarness, yes I do. I always get asked by people about the Middle East issues becasue of heritage. So I do always talk about it, and explain to people how the media here re-formats every thing.

I do not have any anger towards the US as people, I love this country as people, there are just lots of freedom here, I can't hate that. I hate the international policies of this country. All I can tell you with no further detials that I do help this country in a way I am not permitted to talk about to public.

There isn't anything in the wrold better than being able to have equal chance (almost guaranteed in the US) for education, good living standard, health, and practice of religion freely, than the United States, I can't and will never hate that like I said.

I just see a lot of injustice in the policies the US have towards the Middle East. And that angers me totally like you said, I think I have the right to be because ALL of my family are there, between Syria, Egypt, and Jordan.

[amcon]

WTF was that?

Pro-Israel kindergarten brain wash presentation?
It sounds like it was made by some low end Jewish agency for kids.

dude you are angry, and not the least bit willing to step our out of you anger and look... that is what scares people - your scaring me... good luck, that must be something you need to get a hold of and over come..

[jimmyinkedup]

I am not a US citizen yet. But I don't have to be a US citizen to spread awarness, yes I do. I always get asked by people about the Middle East issues becasue of heritage. So I do always talk about it, and explain to people how the media here re-formats every thing.

I do not have any anger towards the US as people, I love this country as people, there are just lots of freedom here, I can't hate that. I hate the international policies of this country. All I can tell you with no further detials that I do help this country in a way I am not permitted to talk about to public.

There isn't anything in the wrold better than being able to have equal chance (almost guaranteed in the US) for education, good living standard, health, and practice of religion freely, than the United States, I can't and will never hate that like I said.

I just see a lot of injustice in the policies the US have towards the Middle East. And that angers me totally like you said, I think I have the right to be because ALL of my family are there, between Syria, Egypt, and Jordan.

Oh u absolutely have the right to your anger and opinions...the US is one of only a handful of countries where having and expressing that anger is legally accepted! I just hope when / if the opportunity presents itself you act as diligently and enthusiastically by taking action, voting ,contacting politicains etc.... thats my main point. One of the biggest problems i see in the US is passive acceptance..people forget that if we truly utilize our democaratic system...really get involved we can evoke change. So many have become lazy and quick to point fingers and not act....they have lost what is the true beauty of a democracy. As a result ..corruption and poor foreign policy, as well as other important isuues, remain unchecked.

[smokethedays]

dude you are angry, and not the least bit willing to step our out of you anger and look... that is what scares people - your scaring me... good luck, that must be something you need to get a hold of and over come..

F-off. or grow up, do something about your pathetic self before you crash into reality and find out how much of piece of shit you are. I really don't know what else I can do more than ignoring you, which I did for thpast couple days, but it don't seem to work with retards like you.

So maybe you should understand that I am not interested in arguing/replying to ur posts or anything of that sort.

So Do me and all this board members a favor so the threads stay clean, FVCK OFF my way.

[smokethedays]

Oh u absolutely have the right to your anger and opinions...the US is one of only a handful of countries where having and expressing that anger is legally accepted! I just hope when / if the opportunity presents itself you act as diligently and enthusiastically by taking action, voting ,contacting politicains etc.... thats my main point. One of the biggest problems i see in the US is passive acceptance..people forget that if we truly utilize our democaratic system...really get involved we can evoke change. So many have become lazy and quick to point fingers and not act....they have lost what is the true beauty of a democracy. As a result ..corruption and poor foreign policy, as well as other important isuues, remain unchecked.

[Matt]

F-off. or grow up, do something about your pathetic self before you crash into reality and find out how much of piece of shit you are. I really don't know what else I can do more than ignoring you, which I did for thpast couple days, but it don't seem to work with retards like you.

So maybe you should understand that I am not interested in arguing/replying to ur posts or anything of that sort.

So Do me and all this board members a favor so the threads stay clean, FVCK OFF my way.

x2 about time someone said it..

[Matt]

They want to continue building settelments in Gaza and make sure they stay safe, in other words, they Gaza arms free, except for the Jewish settlers in the settelments and if Hamas is wiped out and Abbas rules over Gaza, then they'd propably allow some kind of light weapons for a local Palestinian police.

Generally speaking, Gaza will never be 100% Palestinian occupied, ther are many settlements built and continue to be built there.

Lets hope that one day Gaza will 100% Palestinian.

Then there will be peace....

[spywizard]

*Edit* Not sure why the pics aren't posting, copy and paste. Might be better but they are graphic to say the least


I saw these and just want to puke, I am so sick of this world and how mainly America and Americans don't give a shit about anything other than themselves and cannot see the world from any other perspective. We point the finger at nations "You are bad", "We are good" and everyone jumps on the bandwagon. There is a difference between being Patriotic and being a blind sheep.

This makes me extremely sad and sick as I sit here and type this. I am sitting comfortably in my apartment well fed and no worries compared to these people.

Israel is brutalising Palastenians as we speak, who is wrong, who is right? Knowing the history of this displaced people (Jews) I feel bad for the Palastenians. They have no chance against the Israeli war machine which is financed and backed by The United States of America.

The following pics are not being shown by the US media, wonder why? Huh? Israel is not leeting media into Gaza, why not? Don't want people to see the slaughter?

Stop and imagine you in this situation, if you even can? This goes beyond the childish relgious differences etc. These are human beings being slaughtered and it tears me up and I feel bad for all of them.

http://api.ning.com/files/*Bblg2do*j...dMBV/2610x.jpg


http://api.ning.com/files/*Bblg2do*j...0Uw/14610x.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/*Bblg2do*j...79b/13610x.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/*Bblg2do*j...bxWq/9610x.jpg

http://api.ning.com/files/*Bblg2do*j...H53W/6610x.jpg

Actually i can imagine it.. right here in the USA.... The government against private citizens...

[spywizard]

see.. once again proof that the political forum has no place here.. tsk tsk