Public really happy with Obama and universal health care?

[Kratos]

A million march to US Capitol to protest against 'Obama the socialist'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...#ixzz0RGyl1agw


As many as one million people flooded into Washington for a massive rally organised by conservatives claiming that President Obama is driving America towards socialism.

The size of the crowd - by far the biggest protest since the president took office in January - shocked the White House.

Demonstrators massed outside Capitol Hill after marching down Pennsylvania Avenue waving placards and chanting 'Enough, enough'.

The focus of much of the anger was the president's so-called 'Obamacare' plan to overhaul the U.S. health system.
Demonstrators waved U.S. flags and held signs reading 'Go Green Recycle Congress' and 'I'm Not Your ATM'.'

The protest on Saturday came as Mr Obama took his campaign for health reforms on the road, making his argument to a rally of 15,000 supporters in Minneapolis.

Saying he was determined to push through a bill making health insurance more affordable, Mr Obama said: 'I intend to be president for a while and once this bill passes, I own it.

'I will not waste time with those who think that it's just good politics to kill healthcare.'
But in Washington, protester Richard Brigle, 57, a Vietnam veteran, said: 'It's going to cost too much money we don't have.' Another marcher shouted: 'You want socialism? Go to Russia!'
Terri Hall, 45, of Florida, said she felt compelled to become political for the first time this year because she was upset by government spending.

'Our government has lost sight of the powers they were granted,' she said. She added that the deficit spending was out of control, and said she thought it was putting the country at risk.
Anna Hayes, 58, a nurse from Fairfax County, stood on the Mall in 1981 for Reagan's inauguration. 'The same people were celebrating freedom,' she said. 'The president was fighting for the people then. I remember those years very well and fondly.'
Saying she was worried about 'Obamacare,'Hayes explained: 'This is the first rally I've been to that demonstrates against something, the first in my life. I just couldn't stay home anymore.'
Andrew Moylan, of the National Taxpayers Union, received a roar of approval after he told protesters: 'Hell hath no fury like a taxpayer ignored.'

Republican lawmakers also supported the rally.
'Republicans, Democrats and independents are stepping up and demanding we put our fiscal house in order,' Rep. Mike Pence, chairman of the House Republican Conference, said.

'I think the overriding message after years of borrowing, spending and bailouts is enough is enough.'
FreedomWorks Foundation, a conservative organization led by former House of Representatives Majority Leader Dick Armey, organized several groups from across the country for what they billed as a 'March on Washington.'
Organisers said they had built on momentum from the April 'tea party' demonstrations held nationwide to protest at Mr Obama's taxation policies, along with growing resentment over his economic stimulus packages and bank bailouts.

Other sponsors of the rally include the Heartland Institute, Americans for Tax Reform and the Ayn Rand Center for Individuals Rights.
Recent polls illustrate how difficult recent weeks have been for a president who, besides tackling health care, has been battling to end a devastatingly deep recession.
Fifty per cent approve and 49 per cent disapprove of the overall job he is doing as president, compared to July, when those approving his performance clearly outnumbered those who were unhappy with it, 55 per cent to 42 per cent.
Just 42 percent approve of the president's work on the high-profile health issue.

The poll was taken over five days just before Obama's speech to Congress. That speech reflected Obama's determination to push ahead despite growing obstacles.

Prior to Obama's speech before Congress U.S. Capitol Police arrested a man they say tried to get into a secure area near the Capitol with a gun in his car as President Barack Obama was speaking.

On Thursday police spokeswoman Kimberly Schneider said that 28-year-old Joshua Bowman of suburban Falls Church, Virginia, was arrested around 8pm on Wednesday when Obama was due to speak.

Bowman's intentions were unclear, police said.

[Kratos]

BgMc doesn't like it when people diss his boy...but clearly a lot of American's don't want this healthcare plan pushed through.

[Kratos]

Yes we can!!!


*in before bigsexy*

[Dont wanna be old]

I may not be educated or smart .

My prospective comes from a man than works in Detroit .

I have 2 disabled children I care for and consider the current system broken . I pay 135.00 a week . I would pay more for everyone to be covered .

If this is the geatest country in the world then why don't we live the longest ?

I see indigent people on the street every day . Put on the street because state cut funds to medical institutions . Then working class people complain about homeless people begging for money .

I believe there is reasonable concern for a socialist government , But again the current system put us in the situation we are in . I have watched policy's and trade agreements give away are work to other country's .

My definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results .

We can't keep going down the same path and think things are going to get better .

[Kratos]

I may not be educated or smart .

My prospective comes from a man than works in Detroit .

I have 2 disabled children I care for and consider the current system broken . I pay 135.00 a week . I would pay more for everyone to be covered .
If this is the geatest country in the world then why don't we live the longest ?

I see indigent people on the street every day . Put on the street because state cut funds to medical institutions . Then working class people complain about homeless people begging for money .

I believe there is reasonable concern for a socialist government , But again the current system put us in the situation we are in . I have watched policy's and trade agreements give away are work to other country's .

My definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results .

We can't keep going down the same path and think things are going to get better .

I'm confusted, you pay $135 per week to care for two disabled children? How much should you have to pay for all the care they require? You would pay more for everyone to be covered? what? I don't get what you are saying. You don't like what you have to pay but are willing to donate to other's healthcare needs. Try donating to a free clinic.
You think the main cause of people on the street is cuts to medical institutions? what?

It sounds like Obama's "change" slogan really got stuck in your brain.

Do you really think going to the doctor's office or the speed in which you can get a total knee replacement decides life expectancy? It's called Americans are fat and have poor work and eating habits and lifestyle and a lot of very poor who take extremely shitty care of themselves.

[Kratos]

Most of the news media estimates the crowd at 10's of thousands. Like there was nobody there.

[mho]

I may not be educated or smart .

My prospective comes from a man than works in Detroit .

I have 2 disabled children I care for and consider the current system broken . I pay 135.00 a week . I would pay more for everyone to be covered .

If this is the geatest country in the world then why don't we live the longest ?

I see indigent people on the street every day . Put on the street because state cut funds to medical institutions . Then working class people complain about homeless people begging for money .

I believe there is reasonable concern for a socialist government , But again the current system put us in the situation we are in . I have watched policy's and trade agreements give away are work to other country's .

My definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results .

We can't keep going down the same path and think things are going to get better .

You do know you can get free healthcare, right?

[redz]

Glad to see Americans wont just sit and let this guy screw up the country even more.

[Kratos]

You do know you can get free healthcare, right?

it is true, if they are disabled the state will pay...my brother is disabled also. My parents kept paying for the longest time...and the reason why is because they didn't want him to have the shitty care the gvmt provides. They paid hundreds of k out of pocket and now he's on state, and gets the shittiest care known to man.

Why is it you don't put your kids on state insurance? Because it sounds like you like the idea of gvmt run care.

[BgMc31]

BgMc doesn't like it when people diss his boy...but clearly a lot of American's don't want this healthcare plan pushed through.

Nah, you've got me misunderstood Kratos. I don't like it when people spread misinformation about his policies. I'm all for anyone who disagrees with their elected officials, but when the public is fed bullsh*t by the opposition that is what bothers me. BTW, I have a huge problem with Obama and his administration continuing the Patriot Act, but that is another topic!!

[MuscleScience]

I may not be educated or smart .

My prospective comes from a man than works in Detroit .

I have 2 disabled children I care for and consider the current system broken . I pay 135.00 a week . I would pay more for everyone to be covered. I dont, that is where the problem lies. Why cant private charities pick up the additional cost of uninsured americans. We are the most generous people in the world when it comes to charity. Why should I have to pay for others that are not covered???

If this is the geatest country in the world then why don't we live the longest ? That is more a function of our Life Style than our health care system.

I see indigent people on the street every day . Put on the street because state cut funds to medical institutions . Then working class people complain about homeless people begging for money .

I believe there is reasonable concern for a socialist government , But again the current system put us in the situation we are in . I have watched policy's and trade agreements give away are work to other country's .

My definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results .

We can't keep going down the same path and think things are going to get better .

Bold

Nah, you've got me misunderstood Kratos. I don't like it when people spread misinformation about his policies. I'm all for anyone who disagrees with their elected officials, but when the public is fed bullsh*t by the opposition that is what bothers me. BTW, I have a huge problem with Obama and his administration continuing the Patriot Act, but that is another topic!!

X2, I really thought he would abolish the patriot act. Which was a major reason that I almost voted for him.

[BgMc31]

The problem with this issue is that most of these people have no idea what socialism is and the republican party uses that term to scare people. If people were truely informed they would attack Obama based on disagreements with his spending but using socialism as a scare tactic is simply partisan rhetoric.

Like I've said a thousand times, fear is a very effective political tool.

[redz]

I think that if a party is using socialist like policies than it is not really un-fair to accuse them of scoialism.

[Kratos]

The problem with this issue is that most of these people have no idea what socialism is and the republican party uses that term to scare people. If people were truely informed they would attack Obama based on disagreements with his spending but using socialism as a scare tactic is simply partisan rhetoric.

Like I've said a thousand times, fear is a very effective political tool.

it isn't a scare tactic if it's true...the term for gvmt run healthcare is socialized medicine, no?

more and more of the private sector is ending up in the hands of the gvmt. it's a trend that many American's don't like and at what point are you allowd to call it a move to socialism?

The healthcare industry is already controlled by a 45% share in gvmt spending. Obama's plan will increase this. Healthcare is projected to be 17.7% of GDP. If the gvmt holds a monopoly on healthcare, that's a large portion of the economy put into public hands.

I for one am not afraid of the word, and don't toss it around for fear. Republicans may throw it around for their own gain. But, dems equally like to dismiss the word as a scare tactic.

It's only a word, I don't want the gvmt getting it's hands on another dollar or percentage share of the economy. I'd like to see a reverse in the trend. It didn't start with Obama. I'm sure he think's he's doing what's right for the country. Not all of America is getting what they want though, and maybe a protest like this should be a clue that his plan isn't right for everyone. He is in a unique situation with the amount of unilateral power he holds as far as a president goes. Anytime you're pushing things through, they get screwed up.

[TITANIUM]

The problem with this issue is that most of these people have no idea what socialism is and the republican party uses that term to scare people. If people were truely informed they would attack Obama based on disagreements with his spending but using socialism as a scare tactic is simply partisan rhetoric.

Like I've said a thousand times, fear is a very effective political tool.

Nah, you've got me misunderstood Kratos. I don't like it when people spread misinformation about his policies. I'm all for anyone who disagrees with their elected officials, but when the public is fed bullsh*t by the opposition that is what bothers me. BTW, I have a huge problem with Obama and his administration continuing the Patriot Act, but that is another topic!!

I see that BgMc is starting to come around to the reality of who Obama really is and what he is.

Not knocking you at all BgMc, but this whole political scheme is like a boiling crock pot of shit.

And it's going to blow.

And as far as the patriot act goes, I don't think anyone in there right mind would even entertain the idea of it, if they knew exactly what it meant.


It is really starting to run into heavy opposition now.

We could run this government better than they could.

Healthy, knowledgeable debates where realistic conclusions are reached.


It's going to get worse before it gets better.

I don't see anything positive becoming of this in the near term.

Best

T

[BgMc31]

it isn't a scare tactic if it's true...the term for gvmt run healthcare is socialized medicine, no?

Yes, gvmt run healthcare is socialized medicine but only if there are no other options. Obama isn't championing a complete take over of the healthcare he's proposing a gvmt OPTION.

more and more of the private sector is ending up in the hands of the gvmt. it's a trend that many American's don't like and at what point are you allowd to call it a move to socialism?

The institutes with government involement have always had a bit of government involvement. The gvmt bailed out Chrysler in the 70's. The gvmt stepped in during the savings and loans crisis, and medicare/medicade aren't new as well. So this new socialistic boogyman doesn't exist at the level the republicans are saying

The healthcare industry is already controlled by a 45% share in gvmt spending. Obama's plan will increase this. Healthcare is projected to be 17.7% of GDP. If the gvmt holds a monopoly on healthcare, that's a large portion of the economy put into public hands.

I for one am not afraid of the word, and don't toss it around for fear. Republicans may throw it around for their own gain. But, dems equally like to dismiss the word as a scare tactic.

It's only a word, I don't want the gvmt getting it's hands on another dollar or percentage share of the economy. I'd like to see a reverse in the trend. It didn't start with Obama. I'm sure he think's he's doing what's right for the country. Not all of America is getting what they want though, and maybe a protest like this should be a clue that his plan isn't right for everyone. He is in a unique situation with the amount of unilateral power he holds as far as a president goes. Anytime you're pushing things through, they get screwed up.

I agree with about the absolute power screwing things up. Bush enjoyed that for a bit and look what happened. With that said, the healthcare system as it stands will eventually bankrupt us. But instead of coming up with viable options, republicans just use the socialism term to scare people into not approving of it. What I fear ends up happening is a bullsh*t compromise is struck that doesn't do anything but line insurance company and politicians pockets, cost tax payers more money, with no benefit.

In bold!

[TITANIUM]

OK, We are bankrupt all ready.

Conservative estimates are approximately 4 trillion$.

We are in serious trouble.

I think that obama should be trying to prioritize his agenda.

Like the current recession we are in.

With all the other shit to deal with, I would not be focused on health care reform at this time.

Obama has spent more money in six months than all the other presidents combined.

I didn't like Busch much, but Obama makes this guy look like a alter boy.

And please, it's not a black thing for Christs sake.

It's a political thing.

If he was a flaming homosexual, I would not care.

Get the right man for the job.

Period.

best

T

[TITANIUM]

I'm going to skip out to Q&A for awile........

Best

T

[Kratos]

"Yes, gvmt run healthcare is socialized medicine but only if there are no other options. Obama isn't championing a complete take over of the healthcare he's proposing a gvmt OPTION."

social security was going to be on a volunteer basis also bgmc

[Kratos]

With that said, the healthcare system as it stands will eventually bankrupt us. .

!

I've already explained in another thread the reasons our healthcare is so expensive and that the gvmt system can't change that. It's a transfer of power from private to public, not a cost cutting move. It fits with the liberal ideals that rich and poor should all have the same of everything.

[BgMc31]

"Yes, gvmt run healthcare is socialized medicine but only if there are no other options. Obama isn't championing a complete take over of the healthcare he's proposing a gvmt OPTION."

social security was going to be on a volunteer basis also bgmc

Wasn't aware of that...please enlighten me!!!

I've already explained in another thread the reasons our healthcare is so expensive and that the gvmt system can't change that. It's a transfer of power from private to public, not a cost cutting move. It fits with the liberal ideals that rich and poor should all have the same of everything.

Liberal ideals aren't that we have the same of everything...but fundamental things like affordable healthcare should be made available to everyone and not because of some feel good ideal of equal access but rather because of the burden the uninsured put on everyone else.

[Tock]

Most of the news media estimates the crowd at 10's of thousands. Like there was nobody there.

Maybe it was just the 10's of thousands.

[Coop77]

These are the informed marchers at the "tea party."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y
My favorites are at 4:25 and 6:05.

[amcon]

oboma = liar

[BgMc31]

oboma = liar

If you are going to make an accusation like that, please reference as to what he lied about....

[Ernst]

If illegal immigrants already get free healthcare why can't I? It's not like I don't pay into these public programs I've never used already.

Fu¢k it. Bring on my gov't healthcare. :/ I know they'll do a bad job, but the guys doing it now are fcuking it up too.

[BgMc31]

............

[Flagg]

oboma = liar

Is that it? Your only contribution to this debate? What President hasn't lied to the people?!

[Kratos]

Wasn't aware of that...please enlighten me!!!
]

not 100% but the social secuity old age benifits when first outlined were only going to be a smaller part of the program. In a written statement to Congress in 1935, Roosevelt said that any Social Security plans should include, quote, "Voluntary contributory annuities, by which individual initiative can increase the annual amounts received in old age," adding that government funding, quote, "ought to ultimately be supplanted by self-supporting annuity plans."

The voluntary portion of the system was going to be an annuity similar to those issued by commercial insurance (alternative to the big insurance companies...sound like something you've heard lately). But, their funds would be deposited into and paid out of the Social Security trust fund, and they would provide a government-guaranteed benefit like mandatory contributions.

That got x'ed out of the bill before it passed though.
It became all mandatory taxes...and once the bill or any bill is in place.

Then in 1939 they wanted to convert to pay as you go cause there was 2 billion in the account they wanted to play with to "stimulate" the economy. Big mystake.

the amendments of 1939 made family protection a part of Social Security. This included increased federal funding for the Aid to Dependent Children and raised the maximum age of children eligible to receive money under the Aid to Dependent Children to 18. The amendment added wives, elderly widows, and dependent survivors of covered male workers to those who could receive old age pensions.

household employees working at least two days a week for the same person were added in 1950

In 1956, the tax rate was raised to 4.0% (2.0% for the employer, 2.0% for the employee) and disability benefits were added.

In 1961, retirement at age 62 was extended to men, and the tax rate was increased to 6.0%

Medicare was added in 1965 by the Social Security Act of 1965

both houses of the United States Congress approved a 20% increases in benefits for 27.8 million Americans in 1972. The average payment per month rose from $133 to $166 (20%). So in other words larger forced participation...then also cost of living increases.

In October 1972, a $5 billion piece of Social Security legislation was enacted which expanded the Social Security program. For example, minimum monthly benefits of individuals employed in low income positions for at least 30 years were raised. Increases were also made to the pensions of 3.8 million widows and dependent widowers.
These amendments also established the Supplemental Security Income (SSI). Immigrants who had never paid into the system became eligible for SSI benefits when they reached age 65.

[edit] Dates of coverage for various workers
1935 All workers in commerce and industry (except railroads) under age 65.
1939 Age restriction eliminated; seamen, bank employees added; additional domestic workers and food-processing workers removed
1946 Railroad and Social Security earnings combined to determine eligibility for and amount of survivor benefits.
1950 Regularly employed farm and domestic workers. Nonfarm self-employed (except professional groups). Federal civilian employees not under retirement system. Americans employed outside United States by American employer. Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands. At the option of the State, State and local government employees not under retirement system. Nonprofit organizations could elect coverage for their employees (other than ministers).
1951 Railroad workers with less than 10 years of service, for all benefits. (After October 1951, coverage is retroactive to 1937.)
1954 Farm self-employed. Professional self-employed except lawyers, dentists, doctors, and other medical groups. Additional regularly employed farm and domestic workers. Homeworkers. State and local government employees (except firemen and policemen) under retirement system if agreed to by referendum. Ministers could elect coverage as self-employed.
1956 Members of the uniformed services. Remainder of professional self-employed except doctors. By referendum, firemen and policemen in designated States.
1965 Interns. Self-employed doctors. Tips.
1967 Ministers (unless exemption is claimed on grounds of conscience or religious principles). Firemen under retirement system in all States.
1972 Members of a religious order subject to a vow of poverty.
1983 All federal civilian employees hired after 1983; members of Congress, the President and Vice-President and federal judges; all employees of nonprofit organizations. Covered state and local government employees prohibited from opting out of Social Security.
1990 Employees of state and local governments not covered under a retirement plan.


are you noticing it just gets bigger and bigger?

as for healtcare it will follow suit, or the empty suit that is Obama...he has said, once the bill is into law "I own it"

[Kratos]

These are the informed marchers at the "tea party."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y
My favorites are at 4:25 and 6:05.

wow, it's really had to find dumb asses in the general public and make a video like that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53C2-b8BOLs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVX-c07uefc

[MuscleScience]

Well I found out why I oppose some of Obama's policies. According to Jimmy Carter its because I am a blatant racist....LOL

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

Yes we can!!!


*in before bigsexy*

haha well done Kratos. Nice to see people catching on.



All I hear about this is the million moron march...


lol, apparently we are all morons for not agreeing with obama...

[Dont wanna be old]

I'm confusted, you pay $135 per week to care for two disabled children? How much should you have to pay for all the care they require? You would pay more for everyone to be covered? what? I don't get what you are saying. You don't like what you have to pay but are willing to donate to other's healthcare needs. Try donating to a free clinic.
You think the main cause of people on the street is cuts to medical institutions? what?

It sounds like Obama's "change" slogan really got stuck in your brain.

Do you really think going to the doctor's office or the speed in which you can get a total knee replacement decides life expectancy? It's called Americans are fat and have poor work and eating habits and lifestyle and a lot of very poor who take extremely shitty care of themselves.

I pay 135.00 a week for my medical from my job . 10 years ago I payed 0 .
I just happen to have 2 disabled children .

I guess The Obama thing is stuck in my head ,true .
I watched the Michael Moore movie Sicko . It seemed to stick in my head .


I believe there is a small number of people on the street that need to be in institutions . Some are dangerous to others .

I think there was something said some where that all men are created equal .

Give everyone health care .


Statistics in Detriot are 3 in 10 are unemployed . That is people still receiving unemployment . I would bet even higher if you added people that benefits have expired .

2 in 10 college grads are getting jobs . So now we have educated unemployed .

I don't know the answer , I have insurance . But the coarse we going is now is not a good one .

[BgMc31]

Well I found out why I oppose some of Obama's policies. According to Jimmy Carter its because I am a blatant racist....LOL

You mean you aren't MuscleScience?

Just f*ckin with you brotha. I know you aren't. But I think you taking what the former Prez said out of content.

[BgMc31]

haha well done Kratos. Nice to see people catching on.



All I hear about this is the million moron march...


lol, apparently we are all morons for not agreeing with obama...

HHHMMMM funny how I don't recall anybody calling it a million moron march. But it's also funny how people inflate or deflate numbers based on their bias. Leftest say it was 10's of thousands, righties say it was closer to a million. Kinda reminds me of the original million man march. Whites say it was tens of thousands while blacks say it was closer to a million. Funny how facts get distorted...

[yourmom]

There are about 1300 insurance providers in the US. Currently, only 6 are operating in California. If they would let more to do business here, competition would help lower cost. Think about it, if Walmart was the only store in town, it would not be as inexpensive as they are.

[yourmom]

wow, it's really had to find dumb asses in the general public and make a video like that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53C2-b8BOLs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVX-c07uefc

Funny. I asked 1 simple question to all of my friends that were voting for Obama. It was, 'Name one Obama policy you agree with'. Not one could tell me. (most did say, he would lower taxes, but could not tell me how)

[MuscleScience]

You mean you aren't MuscleScience?

Just f*ckin with you brotha. I know you aren't. But I think you taking what the former Prez said out of content.

I am sure, he just makes me laugh. He tries so hard to be important. I wish he would go into retirement for good.

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

HHHMMMM funny how I don't recall anybody calling it a million moron march. But it's also funny how people inflate or deflate numbers based on their bias. Leftest say it was 10's of thousands, righties say it was closer to a million. Kinda reminds me of the original million man march. Whites say it was tens of thousands while blacks say it was closer to a million. Funny how facts get distorted...

true that. Theres always another side of the story. Kinda hard to know what exactly to believe.

[Flagg]

Obama is all about change. Change for the better, etc. Most politicians throughout the West promise change, they promise what they will do that the other party wont do, and so on.

Change and promise, change and promise, change and promise.

How often do any of these silver tongued reptiles actually explain HOW they are going to enact this change?

It's amazing what you can sell to the public with a bit of rhetoric and everyone soaks it up, accepts everything said as gospel and never once asks "Hmm, how is he going to do that exactly?"