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Thread: George Floyds family set to receive 27 MILLION dollars

  1. #41
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    What if it happened to one of you guys and the media blamed it on steroids ? Well you were on a heavy tren cycle and your neck was 19” and you probably suffered from sleep apnea.

    What if it happened after you got in a fight with your wife or after one too many drinks? Does the cop have the right to kneel and put his body weight on your neck/jugular?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Test Monsterone View Post
    What if it happened to one of you guys and the media blamed it on steroids ? Well you were on a heavy tren cycle and your neck was 19” and you probably suffered from sleep apnea.

    What if it happened after you got in a fight with your wife or after one too many drinks? Does the cop have the right to kneel and put his body weight on your neck/jugular?
    I can tell you this much test, the quickest way to wind up your ass kicked by the cops, is to resist arrest, refuse to cooperate and get rowdy.

    All of which Mr. Floyd did.

    I found out in my youth the best way to deal with cops is to give em your id, answer their questions, and then calmly argue your case after cooperating.

    Now, I'm not saying Floyd deserved what he got, because he acted the way he did. But, I can tell you he brought it on himself by acting the way he did.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hughinn View Post
    I can tell you this much test, the quickest way to wind up your ass kicked by the cops, is to resist arrest, refuse to cooperate and get rowdy.

    All of which Mr. Floyd did.

    I found out in my youth the best way to deal with cops is to give em your id, answer their questions, and then calmly argue your case after cooperating.

    Now, I'm not saying Floyd deserved what he got, because he acted the way he did. But, I can tell you he brought it on himself by acting the way he did.
    What you're saying and what I'm saying can both be true. Yes, he should have been acting respectfully, but he wasn't. He was under the influence of drugs, and he probably had issues with law enforcement to begin with. Not to mention psychological issues.

    That said, once a man is handcuffed and on the ground, he is helpless. Doesn't make sense that anyone needs to kneel on his neck or chest. He is subdued. Anything that happens after that point is the responsibility of the police. Had the cop been kneeling on his elbow, his legs, or anywhere but the upper chest and neck area, then you can say he died of pre-existing conditions exacerbated by his medical history, drug use, and his heightened state. However, because the cop was kneeling on his neck, and he was handcuffed and not able to support his body weight and that of the cop's with his arms, his respiratory tract and neck/chest was compressed and he died directly from those actions. It doesn't matter if he was on drugs, overweight, had heart disease, etc.

    I definitely understand that cops have a right to defend themselves and restrain a person who is resisting arrest, but when the handcuffs are on and the person is on the ground, the only parts of the body that should be restrained are those that could be used to injure the cop. If the guy is trying to spit on the cop, then hold his head dow from the skull.

    Like I was saying, what if you had a bad day and the cops were called to your house and what could have been a night in jail turned into you losing your life. Should your wife be content with the outcome because you were not obeying the officers in your time of crisis? So anyone who doesn't comply deserves to die?

    So, to sum up my thoughts: He was at fault for everything that lead to his being handcuffed, but the cops were at fault for everything that happened after. And because he died, the cops are at fault for that. Everyone has preexisting conditions of some sort. I wouldn't want my friend killed because he went crazy one night and a cop decided to kneel on his neck, after already being handcuffed. It doesn't make any sense and it's wrong, plain and simple.
    Last edited by Test Monsterone; 03-14-2021 at 06:41 PM.
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  4. #44
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    Floyd had 9 prior arrests supposedly. I watched the total bodycam footage, not the crap the fake news media shows clips of, and to me it seemed as if Floyd knew he was going to die. He asked to be placed on the ground, he told his mom and kids he loved them prior to being on the ground somewhere somehow something was off... i think in the beginning the guy ate what drugs he had on him before he came out the car finally. The bodycam footage isnt going to help the Chauvin prosecution at all...the settlement coming in exactly at time of the trial isnt either. Its lookin like manslaughter to me i could be wrong

    I dont like cops, i go the opposite direction if i see one but they have a job to do and besides what some liberals and the media tell you they arent mowing people down , they arent shooting up your house like, say i dont know CHICAGO?

    I know one damn thing, this guy isnt going down dying by some skinny ass cops knee on my neck id make them shoot me. No fuckin way would I laid there and died especially on PEDs hah nope

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    Handcuffs and hobbles as soon as he was prone would have been plenty to keep him under control.
    There are 3 loves in my life: my wife, my English mastiffs, and my weightlifting....Man, my wife gets really pissed when I get the 3 confused...
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Test Monsterone View Post
    What you're saying and what I'm saying can both be true. Yes, he should have been acting respectfully, but he wasn't. He was under the influence of drugs, and he probably had issues with law enforcement to begin with. Not to mention psychological issues.

    That said, once a man is handcuffed and on the ground, he is helpless. Doesn't make sense that anyone needs to kneel on his neck or chest. He is subdued. Anything that happens after that point is the responsibility of the police. Had the cop been kneeling on his elbow, his legs, or anywhere but the upper chest and neck area, then you can say he died of pre-existing conditions exacerbated by his medical history, drug use, and his heightened state. However, because the cop was kneeling on his neck, and he was handcuffed and not able to support his body weight and that of the cop's with his arms, his respiratory tract and neck/chest was compressed and he died directly from those actions. It doesn't matter if he was on drugs, overweight, had heart disease, etc.

    I definitely understand that cops have a right to defend themselves and restrain a person who is resisting arrest, but when the handcuffs are on and the person is on the ground, the only parts of the body that should be restrained are those that could be used to injure the cop. If the guy is trying to spit on the cop, then hold his head dow from the skull.

    Like I was saying, what if you had a bad day and the cops were called to your house and what could have been a night in jail turned into you losing your life. Should your wife be content with the outcome because you were not obeying the officers in your time of crisis? So anyone who doesn't comply deserves to die?

    So, to sum up my thoughts: He was at fault for everything that lead to his being handcuffed, but the cops were at fault for everything that happened after. And because he died, the cops are at fault for that. Everyone has preexisting conditions of some sort. I wouldn't want my friend killed because he went crazy one night and a cop decided to kneel on his neck, after already being handcuffed. It doesn't make any sense and it's wrong, plain and simple.
    I think you're right actually.

    I don't think anybody disagrees that the cop went too far in restraining him like that. It was wrong. There's no legitimate argument to be made to the contrary.

  7. #47
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    So George Floyd was NOT Intentionally Murdered by a Racist White Cop?

    Politics | Mar 14 | Written By Michael P. Tremoglie

    So far, the most interesting aspect of the trial of police officer Derek Chauvin are the crimes for which he has not been charged. Chauvin has been vilified for his role in the arrest-related-death of a man resisting arrest.

    Despite almost a year of riots, ranting and raving by cable news, and even condemnations by supposedly law-and-order radio talk show hosts, Former Minneapolis Police Officer Derek Chauvin is not being charged with the intentional murder of George Floyd. Chauvin is not even being charged with a hate crime. So one may be forgiven for being bewildered. After all, there were riots all over the United States, all over the world, about this innocent Black man allegedly being mercilessly killed by a White racist police officer. After all, the Attorney General of Minnesota is Keith Ellison, the first African-American Minnesota attorney general and the first Muslim Minnesota Attorney General.

    How could this be?

    Yes indeed, how can this be? This lack of charges against Chauvin not mentioning race is incredible considering the portrayals of Floyd's arrest-related-death as a racist hate crime and cold-blooded murder.

    What is even more astounding is that while this depiction of a racially motivated murder may have originated with Black Lives Matter, Antifa, the race hustlers, the grievance industry, and especially the Leftist "civil rights" group, it was repeated by even so-called law and order Republicans. Conservative commentators such as Sean Hannity, the late Rush Limbaugh, Dennis Prager all were anxious to denounce Derek Chauvin. Republican politicians could not wait to run in front of a camera to condemn Chauvin as a racist murderer without a trial. Even other police officers could not wait to express their outrage.

    Presumption of innocence be damned!

    But now we have a trial. A trial that is not about a racial hate crime. A trial that is not about an intentional, willful, premeditated murder. It is not a trial about a racist killer White cop! So were all the media, “civil rights” advocates, law-and-order politicians, Left wing politicians, and other police officers wrong when they said this was intentional murder motivated by racism?

    Apparently they were. Do not expect apologies or corrections or mea culpas from these megalomaniacs and provocateurs.

    Minnesota has two classes, for lack of a better term, of Second Degree murder. To my knowledge Chauvin is charged under § 609.19(2)(1)

    This statute states: Subd. 2.Unintentional murders. Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

    (1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony


    This means the prosecution would have to prove that Chauvin unintentionally killed Floyd while committing or attempting to commit a felony. How this can be proven is anybody’s guess - although some “experts” have already pronounced Chauvin guilty.

    But a purely dispassionate examination of the facts indicates that Chauvin only attempted to restrain Floyd, who was under the influence of controlled substances and was struggling with police. Indeed, audio evidence, the recording of the conversations from the officers’ body cams, indicate that Chauvin only wanted to keep Floyd where he was until an ambulance arrived.

    Couple Chauvin’s stated intent with the fact that the immobilization technique Chauvin used was taught to Minneapolis officers (despite the claims of the mayor, the governor of Minnesota, and even the police chief who apparently is unaware - or does not want to admit- what his officers are trained to do). Then add that this technique has been used by mental health workers and others to restrain people who are violent. Also add that a similar technique was used four years earlier against a White man in Dallas, who was also under the influence of drugs and also died, and it will be damn near impossible to establish that Chauvin intended bodily harm. Indeed, it may be difficult to prove any crime.

    But there is one very big problem for Chauvin in his quest to get a fair trial from Ellison and his political buddies in Minnesota. They must placate the Leftist lynch mob. It is why US Attorney General Barr refused a plea deal on federal charges. The same Attorney General Barr who was incapable of finding any crimes by the FBI can easily find crimes by Minneapolis police officers - especially if he is liable to be called a racist.

    Placating the Leftist lynch mob is de rigueur in modern America. One need only think back to the confirmation hearing of the putative conservative paradigm Justice Amy Coney Barrett. This solon, when asked about the George Floyd arrest-related-death, furnished an answer revealing how intimidated she was.

    Barrett answered fervidly, “Senator, as you might imagine, given that I have two black children, that was very, very personal for my family.” She added that together with her 17-year-old Black adopted daughter “ they wept.” Barrett continued that it was necessary to explain to her black kids that they might be subject to that “brutality.”

    What a contemptible answer by Justice Barrett. She prejudged a White police officer as a racist killer - denying Chauvin the presumption of innocence. She acted as judge, jury, and executioner. Barrett is a disgrace to her profession.

    Barrett’s loathsome pronouncement was a reminder that judges are not neutral arbiters. They are humans with their own prejudices, passions, and ignorance. Barrett is terrified of the Leftist lynch mob. She is more terrified of the Leftist Lynch Mob than she is terrified of injustice!

    So this is the dilemma for Derek Chauvin. He must prove his innocence - as opposed to the prosecution proving his guilt. There is no presumption of innocence for Derek Chauvin. His only chance for a fair trial is for him to have a jury of his peers and a trial judge who, unlike Amy Coney Barrett or Bill Barr, are not cowards. He needs an intrepid judge and jury. He needs a judge and jury who will stand firm against the Leftist Lynch Mob.

    Tragically, for Derek Chauvin, for American justice, and for law abiding Americans intrepid judges and jurors do not seem likely.

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    Prosecutors press charges which they believe they have a good chance of proving.
    That doesn't mean they don't believe that a greater crime occured.

    Take Al Capone...
    He got sentenced for tax evasion.
    It doesn't mean he wasn't guilty of higher crimes.

    They simply prosecuted him on the crimes which they could get a conviction.


    A lesser offense can serve as a fallback for prosecutors, giving them a way to obtain at least some kind of conviction when the jury might acquit the defendant of a more serious crime.

    https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...erious%20crime.
    Last edited by The Deadlifting Dog; 03-15-2021 at 12:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog View Post
    Prosecutors press charges which they believe they have a good chance of proving.
    That doesn't mean they don't believe that a greater crime occured.

    Take Al Capone...
    He got sentenced for tax evasion.
    It doesn't mean he wasn't guilty of higher crimes.

    They simply prosecuted him on the crimes which they could get a conviction.


    A lesser offense can serve as a fallback for prosecutors, giving them a way to obtain at least some kind of conviction when the jury might acquit the defendant of a more serious crime.

    https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...erious%20crime.
    The problem with that is what we see before us right now in mr. Floyd's case.

    For example, both you and I, are two people from polar opposite view points. You're a liberal, living in a white community of other white liberals, I'm a conservative in a very diverse community around other conservatives of all shapes and colors.

    And even you and I agree that convicting that guy of murder is a long shot, because it's hard to imagine it being murder. We agree on that.

    And we also agree that the death of Mr. Floyd brings attention to the very least, a significant portion of the responsibility for the death itself is on the police. Thats indisputable if one is objective about the situation. Drugs or no drugs, some responsibility is on the police here.

    But it's hard to imagine it being murder.

    So why was he charged with murder, if not for political pressure? And if it was political pressure influence in our court system then we have an entirely new problem. Because justice should be blind to politics.

    So prosecution doesn't always bring charges they think they can get, if political influence plays a roll. In this case,mits highly likely they brought the charges they had to bring to appease the rioting mob at the time.
    Add that to corrupt and dishonest leadership and media that fanned the flames of hatred and division, its hard to see either justice being blindly served, or appeasement of the mob being done at the same time.

    In other words, over charging him, is likely to not help anybody in the long run.and the dishonesty of the media and the democrat party over the details of the case will, only compound and exacerbate the situation further once it progresses
    Last edited by Hughinn; 03-15-2021 at 12:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hughinn View Post
    The problem with that is what we see before us right now in mr. Floyd's case.

    For example, both you and I, are two people from polar opposite view points. You're a liberal, living in a white community of other white liberals, I'm a conservative in a very diverse community around other conservatives of all shapes and colors.

    And even you and I agree that convicting that guy of murder is a long shot, because it's hard to imagine it being murder. We agree on that. Nope. I disagree. I easily can see a 2nd degree murder charge. see below.

    And we also agree that the death of Mr. Floyd brings attention to the very least, a significant portion of the responsibility for the death itself is on the police. Thats indisputable if one is objective about the situation. Drugs or no drugs, some responsibility is on the police here.

    But it's hard to imagine it being murder. I disagree. I think you don't understand the legal term. again see below.

    So why was he charged with murder, if not for political pressure? Because he displayed reckless conduct that displays an obvious lack of concern for human life. again see below. And if it was political pressure influence in our court system then we have an entirely new problem. Because justice should be blind to politics.

    So prosecution doesn't always bring charges they think they can get, if political influence plays a roll. In this case,mits highly likely they brought the charges they had to bring to appease the rioting mob at the time. Disagree. I think they would've added on a hate crime too if you were correct.
    Add that to corrupt and dishonest leadership and media that fanned the flames of hatred and division, its hard to see either justice being blindly served, or appeasement of the mob being done at the same time.

    In other words, over charging him, is likely to not help anybody in the long run.and the dishonesty of the media and the democrat party over the details of the case will, only compound and exacerbate the situation further once it progresses
    Typically, second-degree murder is defined as murder that is not premeditated, or murder that is caused by the offender's reckless conduct that displays an obvious lack of concern for human life.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/seco...20human%20life.

    I think it will be easy for them to prove reckless conduct and an obvious lack of concern for human life.
    He kneeled on his neck for over 8 minutes and I believe he was dead for at least one of those minutes.
    Kinda hard to argue he needed restraint when he was already dead.



    Note: I have repeated said I am not casting judgement and I will let the courts decide. I am no lawyer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog View Post
    Typically, second-degree murder is defined as murder that is not premeditated, or murder that is caused by the offender's reckless conduct that displays an obvious lack of concern for human life.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/seco...20human%20life.

    I think it will be easy for them to prove reckless conduct and an obvious lack of concern for human life.
    He kneeled on his neck for over 8 minutes and I believe he was dead for at least one of those minutes.
    Kinda hard to argue he needed restraint when he was already dead.



    Note: I have repeated said I am not casting judgement and I will let the courts decide. I am no lawyer.

    Basically, more or less, I agree.

    First degree murder is not what happened.

    All that other shit, maybe.

    And yes, the officer could have, and obviously should have dome something different.
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    I just want to add something to Beetle, with respect to his last post and the closed thread in the other sub-forum. It has to do with Chauvin following department procedure and doing what he was taught to do (from beetle’s posts).

    From beetle’s post, the department procedure on the usage of an “Unconscious neck restraint”; according to its wording as provided by beetle. His choice in it’s usage of the restraint followed department procedure, but Chauvin’s application of it did not.

    ‘“Unconscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with the intention of rendering the person unconscious by applying adequate pressure”.

    I wonder why it doesn’t spell out further why after being rendered unconscious, the restraint should be removed? Could it be that the point is so obvious it does not need to be explained? That is, if you don’t return adequate blood flowing to the brain, the person will die.

    So after our “person” was rendered unconscious and subsequently demonstrating that by a lack of movement and well consciousness, why was the restraint still applied? That is not department procedure. If he knew the procedure and voluntarily chose not to follow it, certainly Chauvin would had to have known that death would follow. Seems like murder and he chose to do so.

    Having lived through the Rodney King beatings and trial out here, I saw the King video numerous times and just watched it again. Let’s see, adrenaline pumping after a high speed chase that could have resulted in innocent deaths or that of police officers? Check.

    That, and how or why Rodney King would not stay down or motionless was beyond belief and why I felt the officers were not guilty.
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  13. #53
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    Who and What Killed George Floyd?

    ...[O]ver the months, new facts and factors have emerged.

    George Floyd was not choked to death. He was not asphyxiated. He was not killed by Chauvin's knee on the side of his neck. An autopsy showed Floyd's neck muscles were not even bruised.

    Floyd died when his heart stopped. Yet, he was already suffering from an enlarged heart with constricted arteries, one of five of which was 90% blocked and two others were 75% blocked.

    An autopsy found heavy concentrations of fentanyl in Floyd's system and traces of methamphetamines. If Floyd had collapsed and died in the street while being wrested into the squad car, his death would have been attributed to a drug overdose and a bad heart.

    Also, a videotape of the minutes prior to Floyd's being put on the pavement, his neck under Chauvin's knee, shows Floyd crying, repeatedly, "I can't breathe," while resisting the two rookie cops trying to put him in the patrol car.

    Moreover, there is testimony from those with Floyd when he was stopped for passing an allegedly phony $20 bill, that he had passed out in the car before the cops arrived. And the arresting cops claim he was foaming at the mouth before being restrained.

    In short, Chauvin's defense attorneys will likely make a credible case, backed by evidence, that Floyd's death was not caused by the knee on his neck but by the battered condition of his heart, the near-lethal dose of fentanyl in his system, and his anxiety and panic at being arrested and fearing, as he wailed, that he was going to be shot....

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    I personally believe Mr floyd's death was largely because of his drug use and health condition.

    But, because he died in police custody, while being treated in the manner he was, I also believe some responsibility of this tragic death falls squarely on the police officers as well.

    I have little faith that this ends with everyone being content on the outcome. Because it's been highly politicized with misinformation intentionally spread by our leaders and media.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hughinn View Post
    I personally believe Mr floyd's death was largely because of his drug use and health condition.

    But, because he died in police custody, while being treated in the manner he was, I also believe some responsibility of this tragic death falls squarely on the police officers as well.

    I have little faith that this ends with everyone being content on the outcome. Because it's been highly politicized with misinformation intentionally spread by our leaders and media.
    I wouldn’t call it a “tragic” death but thats just me. The 5 year old white Cannon Hinnant that was murdered for no reason in his own yard by a BLACK man was “tragic” .

    If the dumbass Chauvin had just stepped back and watched floyd overdose on the ground we wouldnt even be discussing this but thats his decision and he’ll answer for it
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    Quote Originally Posted by Test Monsterone View Post
    So, to sum up my thoughts: He was at fault for everything that lead to his being handcuffed, but the cops were at fault for everything that happened after. And because he died, the cops are at fault for that.

    So you're saying that even though he had a fatal amount of drugs in his system the police are still at fault and that he bears no responsibility? The drugs were in his system before, during and after contact with authorities. It seems logical that he could have died at any point, whether the police were there or not.
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    Medical examiners said the fentanyl levels were at a potentially "fatal level," but that it was a combination of factors that led to Floyd's death.

    https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-...-death-1568687 correct link

    https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/...ing-the-claims wrong link
    Last edited by The Deadlifting Dog; 03-18-2021 at 01:51 PM.

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    DD is that the correct link?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    DD is that the correct link?
    fixed it.

    my point is simple though.
    sorry about the bad link.

    I have seen two autopsies saying the death was homicide.

    I have seen a medical examiner say the levels of drugs in his system are potentially fatal.

    I have seen many opinion pieces or talk show hosts claim he OD'ed.

    But I have yet to see any medical report or expert say it was an overdose.

    Guy was a piece of shit. No doubt.
    Cranked up on drugs.

    Did the drugs make him more suspectible to dying yes.
    So did his heart condition.

    But if an obese man on no drugs with a bad heart dies at the knee of the policeman are we going to just say... oh well... he was fat. Had it coming to him.

    The policeman was following the procedure but I don't fully understand the letter of the law.
    Let's say he kept his knee on him for 36 hours... is that appropriate?
    How about 3 months?
    Just because the police code says you can do it I would assume it doesn't mean you can do it indefinitely.

    I am not claiming to be a legal expert.
    I will leave it to the jury.

    But I just disagree with everyone saying he OD'ed.
    I've yet to see one medical report saying he OD'ed.

    And he was alive when the police got there.

    And I am no doctor... But I imagine you usually OD when the drugs are at their highest level in your system.
    Meaning unless he took more drugs after the police got there then why didn't he OD before.

    Now, I have seen people say he took a pill while in custody.
    But again, I haven't seen a medical professional say he OD'd.




    side note:
    There is mention of fentanyl levels of 3 being potentially fatal and his were 11.
    I said it before... tolerance.
    Some people would quite literally die from 20 shots of vodka while an alcoholic can drink that for breakfast.




    The HCME did list drug use as being a factor that could have contributed to the death of George Floyd. But it reported that neck compression and cardiopulmonary arrest played a larger role in his death.

    The HCME and family-ordered autopsies ruled homicide as the cause of death.

    Neither report claims that Floyd died of drugs or a pre-existing condition, but instead that his heart stopped and that the cause of death was restraint.


    https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-...-death-1568687
    Last edited by The Deadlifting Dog; 03-18-2021 at 02:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beetlegeuse View Post
    Who and What Killed George Floyd?

    ...[O]ver the months, new facts and factors have emerged.

    George Floyd was not choked to death. He was not asphyxiated. He was not killed by Chauvin's knee on the side of his neck. An autopsy showed Floyd's neck muscles were not even bruised.

    The autopsy also didn’t show any skin damage on the neck as well, even though other bare skin that was being pushed to the ground did; kind of odd, don’t you think?

    Floyd died when his heart stopped. Yet, he was already suffering from an enlarged heart with constricted arteries, one of five of which was 90% blocked and two others were 75% blocked.

    Maybe, or maybe the heart stopped because the brain was deprived of blood/oxygen and the medulla oblongata no longer sent a brain signal to the heart commanding it to contract

    Moreover, there is testimony from those with Floyd when he was stopped for passing an allegedly phony $20 bill, that he had passed out in the car before the cops arrived.

    Gives new meaning to “friends don’t let friends drive drunk”. The idiots, why was he behind the wheel of the car? Did they plan on surviving the car-ride with him on fatal dosages of fentanyl (and meth) lol?

    And the arresting cops claim he was foaming at the mouth before being restrained.
    As Cuz said, a-shame the police just didn’t let him end his own life by OD. They should go to jail simply for their lack of thinking while acting as police officers, being stupid enough to have it filmed for the whole world to see & causing this cluster-f of trouble (and millions of dollars of costs to tax-payers in the settlement, court costs and civil unrest). Plus if I see one more athlete wearing something that says “I can’t breathe”, I swear I’m going to go nuts because I can’t even watch sports in peace. And we were just over the Colin Kaepernick bs as well.

  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    So you're saying that even though he had a fatal amount of drugs in his system the police are still at fault and that he bears no responsibility? The drugs were in his system before, during and after contact with authorities. It seems logical that he could have died at any point, whether the police were there or not.
    We’ll never know what would have transpired because the cop kneeled on his neck. Would you agree that it couldn’t have helped his situation that a cop was basically strangling him?
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  22. #62
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    He could have had “bow-hunters syndrome”. Although rare, it can lead to a medullary (medulla oblongata controls the heart and lungs) infarct. Never dawned on me before. This thread has me thinking too much about contributing factors in his death.

    I wonder if a lateral neck restraint with the goal of unconsciousness is taught deliberately by rotating the head and neck prior to the application of the knee?

  23. #63
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    Nothing a defense attorney loves more than a judge who makes politically motivated rulings he can challenge on appeal.

    Dershowitz: It’s a ‘serious constitutional mistake’ for judge to refuse change of venue for trial of Derek Chauvin

    It’s a serious constitutional mistake. The judge is focusing on the wrong issue: The issue of prejudice.

    What he should be focusing on is that jurors are going to be frightened that if they render an acquittal or they fail to convict on murder there may be violence. Their own homes, their own stores, their own family may be affected.

  24. #64
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    ‘Constitutional mistake” for who ? The defendants or the family, friends & community of the deceased?

    Kind of what happened with the cops that beat the holy hell out of Rodney King. In order to keep it “fair” they moved the trial to another area of Los Angeles. At the time of the trial, think of that area as “Copland” in the movie with the same name lol. Worked out mighty nice for the defendants. But a “fair” trial?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wango View Post
    ‘Constitutional mistake” for who ? The defendants or the family, friends & community of the deceased?

    Kind of what happened with the cops that beat the holy hell out of Rodney King. In order to keep it “fair” they moved the trial to another area of Los Angeles. At the time of the trial, think of that area as “Copland” in the movie with the same name lol. Worked out mighty nice for the defendants. But a “fair” trial?
    I agree with the sentiment that I don't think this guy can get a fair trial.

    Jurors have already opted out several occasions due to fear of the woke mobs.

    There's alot at stake for our current leadership here. Because if George Floyd wasn't "murdered by a racist white cop" and actually died to a number of factors, not the least of which are results of his own actions, then the media and democrat party will be forced to admit to being the liars and scoundrels they are.

  26. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hughinn View Post
    I agree with the sentiment that I don't think this guy can get a fair trial.

    Jurors have already opted out several occasions due to fear of the woke mobs.

    There's alot at stake for our current leadership here. Because if George Floyd wasn't "murdered by a racist white cop" and actually died to a number of factors, not the least of which are results of his own actions, then the media and democrat party will be forced to admit to being the liars and scoundrels they are.
    I can only imagine that jurors are going to feel threatened either way they decide & either side will make excuses and do damage control if they feel justice wasn’t served in their favor.

    My personal feeling is that you take a politicians PR stance too literally at times. To really think that Biden or anyone else besides those linked with the individuals in the George Floyd death truly and sincerely give a crap seems ludicrous to me. It’s just a show and should be treated as such imo.

    To me this cop or cops should be thrown in jail and fined just for the massive amount of unrest and costs caused by not using their heads as police officers while being watched & videoed.
    Last edited by wango; 03-22-2021 at 10:06 AM.

  27. #67
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    The Railroading of Derek Chauvin, Day 1

    Mar 30 | Written By Michael P. Tremoglie

    The persecution of Derek Chauvin continued on the first day of the trial of Derek Chauvin. The term trial is used loosely here. Railroading, Kangaroo Court, Stalinist Show Trial, or Lynching of Derek Chauvin are all actually more appropriate labels.

    The media, liberal and conservative, already pronounced Officer Derek Chauvin guilty. Frankly, the media pronounced him guilty before he was arrested. For nearly the past year, America’s Fourth Estate has been acting as Judge, Jury, and Lord High Executioner.

    A great example is that of Fox News’ Gregg Jarrett. He wrote a column on March 29th that stated unqualifiedly Chauvin is guilty based simply on a segment of the video showing Chauvin restraining George Floyd.

    Jarrett wrote an emotional plea, “Watching the recording was heart-wrenching and grotesque. It was so atrocious that I venture to say it would be impossible for any compassionate person not to be incensed and angry at Chauvin’s actions, as well as his corresponding indifference to a human life. Chauvin has a strange and defiant look on his face. It made you wonder whether there was hatred in his heart.”

    This is a very strong condemnation by Jarrett. I felt compelled to contact him via tweet offering to debate him about his lurid - some might say disgraceful - accusations. I do not expect Jarrett to reply. Armchair Quarterbacks never do.

    Jarrett said the same that night on Hannity. Noted use of force expert, Sean Hannity, concurred. Hannity, who always seems to manage working into a conversation that he is learning a martial art, weighed in by saying he knows for certain how to restrain someone, and that what Chauvin did was unnecessary. The world is awaiting Hannity’s next book, How to Effect Arrests Based on My Lifelong Experience Controlling Violent People. He will be plugging it soon on his show.

    But Fox journalists were not alone in tying the rope to hang Chauvin. Read some of the tweets from the omniscient, self-anointed, guardians of truth, justice, and the American way:

    At 10:50 AM on March 29, 2021, Glenn Kirschner a Legal Analyst former federal prosecutor tweeted: “As the prosecutor just said in his opening statement in the Derek Chauvin case: even after George Floyd becomes unconscious, defendant Chauvin, “doesn’t let up, doesn’t get up.” This is a powerful statement . . . and powerfully incriminating against Derek Chauvin.” Just to make sure his followers know where he stands on this case Kirschner hashtags his tweet #JusticeMatters to demonstrate his partiality.

    Now it is clear that Floyd was resisting arrest. He already tried to escape once. He was complaining about not being able to breathe well before he was on the ground. These are facts, not speculation such as expressed by the contemptible journalists Jarrett and Kirschner.

    Another NBC News and MSNBC legal analyst, with the Twitter handle Joyce Alene (Joyce Alene White Vance) tweeted three minutes after Kirschner, “In opening, prosecutors say that when an EMT who was a bystander approached to try & check George Floyd’s pulse & render aid, Chauvin refused her & pointed his mace at her.”

    There is a recording of Chauvin telling a colleague that he wants to keep Floyd, who was acting violent and irrational, right where he was until the ambulance arrived. Now, why would Chauvin say this if he intended on murdering Floyd? As far as not wanting help from someone who claims to be an EMT well how does he know she is who she says?

    Another tweet by a nonjournalist put forth a popular Leftwing conspiracy theory about Chauvin: “He's a dirty cop that got busted by Floyd for being on the take at the club.” Her source for this? Who knows?

    Another MSNBC commentator Ali Velsh tweets: “You’ll hear both 8:46 & 9:29 referenced in the trial of Derek Chauvin. 8:46 comes from the Hennepin County Attorney's initial complaint against Chauvin. Police body camera footage released in August showed Chauvin had his knee on #GeorgeFloyd's neck for 9:29.”

    Once again it bears repeating, Chauvin is heard on audiotape saying he wants to keep Floyd still until an ambulance arrives.

    Lauren Dawn Johnson, host of Fox 29’s GOOD DAY PHILADELPHIA tweeted: “Witness explains a lot of Derek Chauvin’s movements in the video as “putting pressure down on his neck.” The shoulder shifts show increased pressure on the neck.”

    Johnson may have been referring to a prosecution witness by the name of Donald Willliams II. He is a professional mixed martial artist. He has a professional record of five wins and six losses. All his wins came by decision. All of his losses were by being submitted with chokes or by technical knockouts.

    Williams said Chauvin used a blood choke. If this is true, then Williams is admitting that Chauvin was using a technique designed to render a person unconscious, not kill him. He knows this because of his experience as a mixed martial arts fighter. Such a choke is used in mixed martial arts competitions to make fighters unconscious. Williams lost many of his pro fights this way.

    Besides Williams is incorrect by describing a knee on the back of the neck as a blood choke. It is not a carotid artery choke. The technique Chauvin used was a PMR or prone maximal restraint. This technique has been known to be problematic. (But more on this later in another column.)

    Williams seems to lack credibility by any objective standard. His testimony is merely to incite the jury. He obviously did so to Lauren Dawn Johnson of Philadelphia’s Fox29 morning television program.

    But the media, Democrat politicians (and many Republicans - Mike Pence are you listening?), the self-anointed civil rights activists, and the Leftist fanatics should be honest and admit that this “trial” is not about Derek Chauvin. It is about dividing the nation, pitting one group against another, and promulgating hate. What happened to Floyd has happened to others - without regard to race, religion, creed, or gender. No, this “trial” is about perpetuating hateful stereotypes and tearing the nation apart.

    What is being done to Chauvin is being done to all police everywhere.

  28. #68
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    I think it's more important to zoom out and see the bigger picture.
    Chauvin is basically a sacrificial lamb.

    The democrat party has decided "systemic racism" is to blame for the national state of failed institutions and policies.

    It goes without saying that the same people in charge of these institutions are the same people blaming this bizzare newly coined term "systemic racism" as being at fault for the failures of policy's and institutions they've been in charge of.

    By blaming this sort of fictional concept, and passing the blame onto individuals who operate within those institutions they've mismanaged for so long, everyone is pointing fingers at each other as the DNC propoganda machine fuels hatred and bigotry among the people.

    But, nobody is pointing out that the people who have been in charge of those institutions are the people responsible for the way they operate. By this plain and simple logic, one can see that the people responsible for the failures are the people who have been in charge.

    They pass the blame, peddle lies and remain in charge of the systems they've destroyed. Enriching themselves and blaming the failures on everything else.

    It's really quite ironic

    The sad part is that many americans believe this lunacy.
    Last edited by Hughinn; 03-30-2021 at 08:49 PM.

  29. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beetlegeuse View Post
    The Railroading of Derek Chauvin, Day 1

    Mar 30 | Written By Michael P. Tremoglie

    The persecution of Derek Chauvin continued on the first day of the trial of Derek Chauvin. The term trial is used loosely here. Railroading, Kangaroo Court, Stalinist Show Trial, or Lynching of Derek Chauvin are all actually more appropriate labels.

    The media, liberal and conservative, already pronounced Officer Derek Chauvin guilty. Frankly, the media pronounced him guilty before he was arrested. For nearly the past year, America’s Fourth Estate has been acting as Judge, Jury, and Lord High Executioner.

    A great example is that of Fox News’ Gregg Jarrett. He wrote a column on March 29th that stated unqualifiedly Chauvin is guilty based simply on a segment of the video showing Chauvin restraining George Floyd.

    Jarrett wrote an emotional plea, “Watching the recording was heart-wrenching and grotesque. It was so atrocious that I venture to say it would be impossible for any compassionate person not to be incensed and angry at Chauvin’s actions, as well as his corresponding indifference to a human life. Chauvin has a strange and defiant look on his face. It made you wonder whether there was hatred in his heart.”

    This is a very strong condemnation by Jarrett. I felt compelled to contact him via tweet offering to debate him about his lurid - some might say disgraceful - accusations. I do not expect Jarrett to reply. Armchair Quarterbacks never do.

    Jarrett said the same that night on Hannity. Noted use of force expert, Sean Hannity, concurred. Hannity, who always seems to manage working into a conversation that he is learning a martial art, weighed in by saying he knows for certain how to restrain someone, and that what Chauvin did was unnecessary. The world is awaiting Hannity’s next book, How to Effect Arrests Based on My Lifelong Experience Controlling Violent People. He will be plugging it soon on his show.

    But Fox journalists were not alone in tying the rope to hang Chauvin. Read some of the tweets from the omniscient, self-anointed, guardians of truth, justice, and the American way:

    At 10:50 AM on March 29, 2021, Glenn Kirschner a Legal Analyst former federal prosecutor tweeted: “As the prosecutor just said in his opening statement in the Derek Chauvin case: even after George Floyd becomes unconscious, defendant Chauvin, “doesn’t let up, doesn’t get up.” This is a powerful statement . . . and powerfully incriminating against Derek Chauvin.” Just to make sure his followers know where he stands on this case Kirschner hashtags his tweet #JusticeMatters to demonstrate his partiality.

    Now it is clear that Floyd was resisting arrest. He already tried to escape once. He was complaining about not being able to breathe well before he was on the ground. These are facts, not speculation such as expressed by the contemptible journalists Jarrett and Kirschner.

    Another NBC News and MSNBC legal analyst, with the Twitter handle Joyce Alene (Joyce Alene White Vance) tweeted three minutes after Kirschner, “In opening, prosecutors say that when an EMT who was a bystander approached to try & check George Floyd’s pulse & render aid, Chauvin refused her & pointed his mace at her.”

    There is a recording of Chauvin telling a colleague that he wants to keep Floyd, who was acting violent and irrational, right where he was until the ambulance arrived. Now, why would Chauvin say this if he intended on murdering Floyd? As far as not wanting help from someone who claims to be an EMT well how does he know she is who she says?

    Another tweet by a nonjournalist put forth a popular Leftwing conspiracy theory about Chauvin: “He's a dirty cop that got busted by Floyd for being on the take at the club.” Her source for this? Who knows?

    Another MSNBC commentator Ali Velsh tweets: “You’ll hear both 8:46 & 9:29 referenced in the trial of Derek Chauvin. 8:46 comes from the Hennepin County Attorney's initial complaint against Chauvin. Police body camera footage released in August showed Chauvin had his knee on #GeorgeFloyd's neck for 9:29.”

    Once again it bears repeating, Chauvin is heard on audiotape saying he wants to keep Floyd still until an ambulance arrives.

    Lauren Dawn Johnson, host of Fox 29’s GOOD DAY PHILADELPHIA tweeted: “Witness explains a lot of Derek Chauvin’s movements in the video as “putting pressure down on his neck.” The shoulder shifts show increased pressure on the neck.”

    Johnson may have been referring to a prosecution witness by the name of Donald Willliams II. He is a professional mixed martial artist. He has a professional record of five wins and six losses. All his wins came by decision. All of his losses were by being submitted with chokes or by technical knockouts.

    Williams said Chauvin used a blood choke. If this is true, then Williams is admitting that Chauvin was using a technique designed to render a person unconscious, not kill him. He knows this because of his experience as a mixed martial arts fighter. Such a choke is used in mixed martial arts competitions to make fighters unconscious. Williams lost many of his pro fights this way.

    Besides Williams is incorrect by describing a knee on the back of the neck as a blood choke. It is not a carotid artery choke. The technique Chauvin used was a PMR or prone maximal restraint. This technique has been known to be problematic. (But more on this later in another column.)

    Williams seems to lack credibility by any objective standard. His testimony is merely to incite the jury. He obviously did so to Lauren Dawn Johnson of Philadelphia’s Fox29 morning television program.

    But the media, Democrat politicians (and many Republicans - Mike Pence are you listening?), the self-anointed civil rights activists, and the Leftist fanatics should be honest and admit that this “trial” is not about Derek Chauvin. It is about dividing the nation, pitting one group against another, and promulgating hate. What happened to Floyd has happened to others - without regard to race, religion, creed, or gender. No, this “trial” is about perpetuating hateful stereotypes and tearing the nation apart.

    What is being done to Chauvin is being done to all police everywhere.
    Got to tell ya Beetle, the images I am seeing of the PMR don’t completely match what happened to Floyd. Of course, I addressed something similar in another thread and of course there wasn’t a response by you. Both the carotid and possibly the vertebral arteries were compromised with the position and the knee upon the carotid.

    Procedure states that you render the individual unconscious, that the police did. However after he was unconscious the knee was not removed, that is not procedure.

    Wow he says he wants to keep him for the ambulance? That’s proof of his innocence?? Great precedent for all future trials. “But, men and women of the jury, my client said that he didn’t want to harm or kill his victim, he must be innocent”!

    Stop the bs of applying this to all police Beetle. As the police I personally know want no association to this guy and feel that he is a disgrace to the profession.

    You’ve now switched your defense to yet another “police technique that he was or wasn’t following following”. H, this is between me and Beetle please. I have no interest in politics here, simply right and wrong.
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  30. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by wango View Post
    Got to tell ya Beetle, the images I am seeing of the PMR don’t completely match what happened to Floyd. Of course, I addressed something similar in another thread and of course there wasn’t a response by you. Both the carotid and possibly the vertebral arteries were compromised with the position and the knee upon the carotid.

    Procedure states that you render the individual unconscious, that the police did. However after he was unconscious the knee was not removed, that is not procedure.

    Wow he says he wants to keep him for the ambulance? That’s proof of his innocence?? Great precedent for all future trials. “But, men and women of the jury, my client said that he didn’t want to harm or kill his victim, he must be innocent”!

    Stop the bs of applying this to all police Beetle. As the police I personally know want no association to this guy and feel that he is a disgrace to the profession.

    You’ve now switched your defense to yet another “police technique that he was or wasn’t following following”. H, this is between me and Beetle please. I have no interest in politics here, simply right and wrong.
    I agree with you here.

    I think the biggest tragedy aside from the death of Mr floyd, was that our media and leadership stoked hatred and division instead of diffusing and letting justice run it's course.

    It may be true that DC was following police procedure. And it May be true that Mr floyd's death was largely an overdose.

    But none of that changes the fact that a man died in police custody at least in some part due to heavy handed police tactics.

    I don't pretend to have the answers. But it's my staunch opinion that the police are to some degree responsible for the death of Mr floyd. To what degree? Obviously Mr floyd is also responsible and I can only hope that the jury figured that out in accordance with the law in an unbiased manner.

    It's unfortunate that justice is likely not to be applied here without political pressure tipping the scale.

    It's even more unfortunate that our leaders stoked hatred and division instead of promoting a fair and just trial to settle the question of who bears what fault in this tragic event.
    The only thing I can be certain of, is that our leaders will not claim responsibility for anything.

    Not for lying about the circumstances, not for promoting hatred and violence, not for neglecting to investigate police procedures, and damn sure not for tainting the trial with politics.

    No sir. They will assume responsibility for absolutely nothing.
    Last edited by Hughinn; 03-30-2021 at 10:15 PM.

  31. #71
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    Evidence versus the George Floyd narrative

    What the jurors should view is a longer treatment of the scene of the store owner approaching a police officer

    By Cal Thomas - - Wednesday, March 31, 2021


    In this image from store video, George Floyd, right, is seen inside Cup Foods on May 25, 2020, in Minneapolis. Former Minneapolis Police officer Derek Chauvin is on trial for the death of Floyd at the Hennepin County Courthouse in ... more >

    ANALYSIS/OPINION:

    It is difficult to change a narrative once it has been established in the public’s mind.

    A narrative was firmly fixed by the media, activists and rioters prior to the trial of Minneapolis Police Officer Derek Chauvin, which opened Monday. Mr. Chauvin is charged with murdering George Floyd.

    Many people have seen the nearly nine-minute video of Mr. Chauvin pressing his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck while Floyd pleaded, “I can’t breathe.”

    What they may not have seen, and the jurors should view, is a much longer treatment of the scene that begins with a store owner approaching a police officer, claiming a man, later identified as Floyd, had passed off a counterfeit $20 bill. The owner points to a car across the street. He says the man is in it.

    In a video compilation from police body cameras, bystanders and a shop camera, Floyd is in an agitated state, first saying, “please, don’t shoot me,” then refusing to put his hands on the steering wheel and later resisting officers. He occasionally appears incoherent and struggles with officers attempting to place him in a police car.

    The entire video has been analyzed by George Parry, a former chief of the police Brutality/Misconduct Unit of the Philadelphia District Attorney’s office from 1978 to 1983.

    Mr. Parry says that when the first officer (not Mr. Chauvin) approaches Floyd, he asks him to put both hands on the steering wheel. When he doesn’t the officer views him as “noncompliant” and draws his service revolver which, he says, is standard practice in such situations. As soon as Floyd places both hands on the wheel, the officer holsters his gun.

    From there, the video shows the officer moving Floyd to the sidewalk. “He was noncompliant throughout this procedure,” says Mr. Parry. Floyd was not under arrest, but he was in custody and officers then began to conduct an investigation into what happened in the store. This included another officer interviewing two people in the car with Floyd. “They were trying to determine why Mr. Floyd was behaving in a noncompliant, bizarre and incoherent manner,” says Mr. Parry.

    After noticing foam around Floyd’s mouth, one of the officers asks Floyd if he had taken drugs. Floyd responded he had been “hooping,” which is defined as “putting drugs in the anus, resulting in a quick and intense high.”

    When the officers attempted to place Floyd in a squad car pending information about the drugs he had taken and the reaction they produced, Floyd screamed he was claustrophobic and again resisted.

    The video shows he was then taken out of the car and police complying with his request to lie down. Before lying down, according to Mr. Parry, Floyd shouted seven times that he couldn’t breathe.

    It was at that point Officer Chauvin begins to kneel on Mr. Floyd’s neck, which Mr. Parry says, “is entirely consistent with what is taught” at the Minneapolis police department academy.

    The video shows Mr. Chauvin’s knee going up each time Floyd attempted to raise his head, indicating, says Mr. Parry, that Mr. Chauvin “was not using brute force.” When officers noticed Floyd deteriorating “they placed another call for an ambulance” with a higher priority code. When it arrived, Floyd appears to have stopped breathing.

    The Hennepin County medical examiner determined that Floyd had a “fatal level” of fentanyl in his system. The report also found that “Floyd had a ‘heavy heart’ and ‘at least one artery was approximately 75 percent blocked.’” Floyd also had a history of severe coronary artery disease and hypertension, which, along with the drug and his agitated behavior, likely contributed to his death.

    Mr. Parry claims prosecutors withheld this information for nearly three months as riots erupted in Minneapolis and elsewhere. Such behavior is normally considered prosecutorial misconduct.

    Watch the video, read the medical examiner’s documents and see how the original narrative was wrong. Will jurors succumb to political pressure and the threat of more rioting, or will they examine the entire video and make their decision based on evidence?

    We will soon know.

  32. #72
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    A few things that jump to mind.

    You don’t need “brute force” in that position to restrict blood flow to the brain. As mentioned prior the carotid and likely the vertebral arteries were compromised. I’ve treated patients that have passed out simply by rotating their neck and extending it (it cuts off blood flow in the vertebral arteries) and absolutely no force is applied. Contributes to quite a few falls actually, often resulting in injuries.

    A heavy heart was the weight of the heart and the truth of the matter is he did have hypertrophy of the heart, as is likely of many members here, including myself. Yet I personally can still do insane cardio even when on clen + T3 and not die. What I haven’t had is someone kneeling on my back and someone else kneeling on my carotid, with my neck forcibly rotated for over 8 minutes. You may not be aware, but that is slow death by torture.

    ‘Severe” coronary artery disease. Let’s see a chart review provided by his doctor(s). Just what symptoms did he have a history of that manifested themselves because of this “severe” coronary disease. No symptoms, well then, not that “severe”. Want to take a bet how many of our members here have significant to severe blockage in their coronary arteries due to diet and shitty lipid panels due to AAS? You really need an angiogram to be sure. Did George have one previously? Same with hypertension, how many threads do we have here on that. I’m hypertensive and considered obese. I very well may have significant coronary blockage, yet have no symptoms, even at 63.

    And he’s black, which is somewhat relevant because blacks have a higher percentage of hypertension and CV disease.

    What’s George’s history with these drugs? Has he taken them before and well not died. Are you saying just that day that he took a “super-dose” of each, particularly considering that he was driving the car.

    I’ve read the medical examiners report and it’s not that believable. Let’s see what the independent autopsy/examination reveals. There has been no specificmention of those findings thus far & I think that it will be more damning than the original exam. The M.D. is Baden and he is a God in terms of solving murders (I show his video’s in class a lot).

    Once again, he was not taught to kill someone with that procedure! He was taught to render the person unconscious. Curious, are they taught that particular neck restraint along with kneeling on the back to further compromise breathing? Let’s see the manual. Let’s see in the manual that you keep the person in that hold even after they have stopped movement and are unconscious.

  33. #73
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    The bigger tragedy to me, is that a specific political party and thier lackeys in the media intentionally perpetuated a lie. They exploited a tragedy, and withheld information that was inconsistent with the narrative they wanted, then they fanned the flames of hatred and division, then based upon the lie, they incentivised and encouraged violence and destruction.

    They used a Marxist, racist,,radical group to spread and implement that violence and suffering in a very strategic and targeted way, they effectively turned the people against eachother. It's a classic strategy: divide and conquer.

    Its Literally, No different than they have done by funding and propagating terrorists groups all over the world. These same people literally pulled this same heist, from the same playbook, all over the world. They used those groups to raise money and gain power and influence. All based on a lie they intentionally told, or a disagreement or conflict they can manipulate, in order to create misery, suffering, division, violence and chaos so that they could usurp power, steal vast unimaginable wealth and to put themselves in the utter control of billions of human lives.

    If that's not domestic terrorism, aiding and abbeting terrorism, conniving, lying, cheating, stealing, raping ,pillaging, and downright fucking wicked&evil, than what the hell is?

    Even sadder, is that they will not be held accountable to those they've fucked over, rpbbed, murdered and plundered, nor will they assume any of the shame and responsibility they justly deserve for pain and suffering they caused those who blindly follow them. And they did it all in order to steal power and rob & plunder the wealth of the collective nation and people they pretend to lead.

    A logical person can put 2 and 2 together and see the trillions of dollars taken from the people as "covid relief" with 91% having nothing to do with covid, is simply paying the tab for the greatest heist in American history, maybe even human history, and dividing the spoils of their crimes and conquests against the American people. Perhaps the greatest con ever perpetuated, If you're wondering if evil exists, i ask you, if that's not it, then what is?

    There are members here who continually degrade, insult and criticize anybody who professes spiritual or religious beliefs. I'll tell you this, without a days education in any "institution of higher learning " I can vouch for this truth : they'll reap what they've sown, as will we all.

    Y'all can sit here and argue over the tragedy of Mr Floyd's death all you want. But the real crime had nothing to do with what happened between him and police. It's time to open our eyes.
    Last edited by Hughinn; 04-02-2021 at 01:17 PM.

  34. #74
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    Hughinn. Although I think it is a big stretch calling it all for infrastructure, but it seems pretty damn good to me. Biden and the Dems wants to pay for a lot of this by taxing the wealthy. Hell, I’d lower the threshold from 400K to 300K to bring in more taxes. Aren’t these the powerful elite that you bring up, the one’s that don’t care about the middle class. Why is this not a good idea? The wealthy are going to pay to rebuild a failing infrastructure and it’s going to provide jobs for Americans.

    I’m serious, not trying to be a smart-ass. I’m overjoyed that they want to tax the hell out of the wealthy. It’s about time.

    Regarding Floyd and the trial, it darn well is between the cops and the deceased. Because of the current state of affairs between blacks & whites (I’m not saying they are right or wrong, but the current state is what it is), as a public servant and one in an authority position he should have been fully aware of the ramifications of his actions. The dude’s family for countless generations should repay the American citizens for the court costs and for the law suit itself.

    Now you have to have extra hand wringing and sorrow for all of the past wrongs done to the blacks (again I not saying it’s right or wrong), but now to maintain just an appearance of empathy, it is necessary. Hell, there’s a city in Chicago paying out restitutions now for past wrongs (again not saying it’s right or wrong).

    And all of this was brought front and center last summer by this one cop. Beat the heck out of Rodney, I’ll back the cops, shoot the dude in the back multiple times cause he’s reaching down for a possible weapon, I’ll back the cops. We’ve had a recent slew of of cops doing shootings out in Los Angeles just this week; I’ll back the cops. Run and turn and even look like you’re going for a weapon and get killed, I’ll back the cops. Don’t put down a knife and get killed, I’ll back the cops. Boyfriend shooting at police and someone else in the home gets mistakenly killed? I’ll back the cops. This dude? Come on

  35. #75
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    Yesterday the attorney for one of Floyd's passengers issued a statement that if his client were called to testify, he would plead the Fifth. Today we found out why. Floyd's (ex-)girlfriend testified that that man was Floyd's drug dealer. Proximal cause of death was a drug overdose so why isn't he being charged at the very least as an accomplice before the fact?

    Railroading of Derek Chauvin Day 3

    Politics | Apr 2 | Written By Michael P. Tremoglie

    Genevieve Hansen, a prosecution witness, who was an off-duty firefighter at the scene, seems contemptuous of the judge and Chauvin’s attorney. It was so bad that the judge had to warn her not to argue with the court or with the defense attorney.

    Genevieve Hansen, 27, a Minneapolis firefighter of two years, who was off-duty and a witness to the George Floyd arrest, testified for the prosecution. Her testimony was often contradictory and argumentative.

    Defense attorney Eric Nelson asked her about her background and experience. She said has two years of experience as a firefighter. She also has training as an Emergency Medical Technician (EMT) and acknowledged she is not as highly trained as Paramedics are.

    When asked she responded that as a firefighter she has been in several burning buildings. Nelson asked her if a bystander at a fire ever told her that she is not fighting the fire properly. She said no. She was then asked if a bystander videotaped her while fighting a fire. She has seen citizens filming her.

    Nelson inquired to what affect this would have on the performance of her duties -would she change the way she did her job. She said no. She also said that no citizen has ever yelled at her while she was fighting a fire. Still, Nelson wanted to know that if hostile crowds were haranguing her, if she were surrounded by a hostile crowd would it prevent her from doing her job? She replied it would not.

    So it was established that despite her criticism that Officer Chauvin did not listen to her or others in the crowd she would have done the same.

    Hansen testified EMT’s do not enter the scene until the police judge it safe for them to do so. Police usually arrive first, they assess the situation. Only then are the Fire Dept. or EMT’s summoned. Nelson, despite Hansen’s combativeness and evasiveness, was able to have Hansen admit that she should have known that an ambulance had been called for Floyd.

    The records and a transcript of her interview with investigating officers in May 2020 stated she arrived at 8:26:29 p.m. These records indicated that paramedics were called at 8:21 initially as a routine call but then upgraded to an urgent call within 90 seconds of the first request. But Hansen said she did not believe the records. But she did acknowledge that she had no idea when an ambulance was called. She claimed she knew that something was wrong because the fire engine arrived after the ambulance. This is not the usual procedure.

    So Genevieve Hansen, a 27-year-old firefighter with two years experience and some training as an EMT, in other rudimentary training in medicine - feels qualified to judge that the police were doing their job incorrectly, she is right and the written record is wrong, and that she could diagnose Floyd.

    Hansen’s testimony was also inaccurate. She said she saw four police officers on Floyd but there were only three. She said Floyd was a thin man, but he is not.

    Store employee Christopher Martin also testified for the prosecution. Martin was the person who took the $20 counterfeit bill and was tasked with retrieving the money.

    Martin testified that in his opinion Floyd was under the influence of drugs or alcohol. This was based on his conversation with Floyd in the store and also when he tried to recover the money for the fake bill. He did this by walking to the SUV in which Floyd was sitting with two other people.

    Twice Martin tried to persuade Floyd to return to the store and either pay for the cigarettes or speak to the manager. Both times he refused. The second time Floyd and his companion in the front of the seat of the SUV were both hostile. He admitted he was afraid of Floyd. Martin confirmed that he was present when his co-worker called 911, reporting a crime and asking for police help. He confirmed that he heard his co-worker tell the police dispatcher that Floyd was under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

    So the Chauvin’s defense attorney established that at least one witness was not only not very credible but outright hostile to the defense attorney, to the police, and to the court. Another witness confirmed that Floyd was under the influence of drugs or alcohol and that he was intimidated by Floyd.

    Once again, witnesses for the prosecution are helping Chauvin’s defense. They have depicted police who were restraining a combative George Floyd, using reasonable methods; police who did call for medical assistance for George Floyd as soon as they recognized there was a medical problem; police who performing their duty on a busy street with cars passing by, and in front of a hostile crowd; police who were dealing with a man, George Floyd, who was under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

    This picture becomes clearer on Day 4 - as the prosecution witnesses once again validate that George Floyd was a drug addict, was on drugs the day he passed the counterfeit money, was belligerent, and that the police were doing what they could do to restrain him until he could be brought to the hospital.

    None of this adds up to murder - and these are the prosecution witnesses.
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  36. #76
    Hughinn is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by wango View Post
    Hughinn. Although I think it is a big stretch calling it all for infrastructure, but it seems pretty damn good to me. Biden and the Dems wants to pay for a lot of this by taxing the wealthy. Hell, I’d lower the threshold from 400K to 300K to bring in more taxes. Aren’t these the powerful elite that you bring up, the one’s that don’t care about the middle class. Why is this not a good idea? The wealthy are going to pay to rebuild a failing infrastructure and it’s going to provide jobs for Americans.

    I’m serious, not trying to be a smart-ass. I’m overjoyed that they want to tax the hell out of the wealthy. It’s about time.

    Regarding Floyd and the trial, it darn well is between the cops and the deceased. Because of the current state of affairs between blacks & whites (I’m not saying they are right or wrong, but the current state is what it is), as a public servant and one in an authority position he should have been fully aware of the ramifications of his actions. The dude’s family for countless generations should repay the American citizens for the court costs and for the law suit itself.

    Now you have to have extra hand wringing and sorrow for all of the past wrongs done to the blacks (again I not saying it’s right or wrong), but now to maintain just an appearance of empathy, it is necessary. Hell, there’s a city in Chicago paying out restitutions now for past wrongs (again not saying it’s right or wrong).

    And all of this was brought front and center last summer by this one cop. Beat the heck out of Rodney, I’ll back the cops, shoot the dude in the back multiple times cause he’s reaching down for a possible weapon, I’ll back the cops. We’ve had a recent slew of of cops doing shootings out in Los Angeles just this week; I’ll back the cops. Run and turn and even look like you’re going for a weapon and get killed, I’ll back the cops. Don’t put down a knife and get killed, I’ll back the cops. Boyfriend shooting at police and someone else in the home gets mistakenly killed? I’ll back the cops. This dude? Come on
    No sir. I disagree.

    300k is not wealthy elite. It's small businesses owners, entrepreneurs, doctors store owners and successful contractors. Basically the backbone of the upper middle class. Which has already been devastated by bullshit covid lockdowns.
    It's a shit idea, to tax these people into oblivion because these people are employers, large local consumers and community leaders. Basically they (the working class wealthy) pave the way for the rest working class to move upward, right along with them. These people are the foundation of ideas of success and American freedom and liberty.

    Which is exactly why the democrat party has it out for them. The democrat party wants the rich to stay rich. The poor to stay poor, and the system that makes it so, to keep it that way. They don't want successful working class people to be able to earn a spot at the table of the elite and priveledged. So they undermine those people at every turn. The aristocracy of the wealthy elite and the democrat party are one in the same. And serve eachothers interests alone.

    It's a shit idea to make it harder for hard working people to be successful just so they're not a threat to the ruling establishment. Such a concept is a direct contradiction to any western ideas of equal opportunity and self made success.

    On the other hand, how much infrastructure does Jeff bezos use delivering billions of dollars in commerce per day over roads and infrastructure. What kind of a tax hike will he get? Why does the failing usps get a taxpayer bailout while offering Amazon discounted rates? You see the illogical premise of your argument now? The wealthy elite, want the wealthy working class to pony up for shit they should pay for. It's Ludacris. It's keeping the rich , rich, and keeping the poor, poor. Which is of course the intended goal of the democrat party policy, from taxes to immigration to foreign policy, inside and out.

    And the political exploitation of that man's death was a far bigger crime than anything else that happened. A tragic death of an American citizen at the hands of police is a tragedy enough. But inciting hatred and violence by telling lies and spinning stories about that tragedy was the real crime. The death itself was a tragic combination of police tactics that need review, drug use and ambulance response time. It was not "racist white cop kills innocent black man" no sir. That was a lie, told specifically to incite violence hatred and division. And that sir, was the real crime.

    And I disagree again, about "hand wringing" for black Americans. Because all kinds of people throughout all of history have endured wrongdoings by somebody. Where are "reparations " for them? Paying reparations is also a shit idea. Because nobody alive today was born a plantation slave. So who gets paid? Nobody alive today owned a slave, and in some cases, like kamala Harris, she is the descendant of slave owners and is still a person of color. So who pays who exactly? I personally know white people who have both slaves and slave owners in their family tree, so what then? What about the numerous lack slave owners in the delta south and thier decendants? They're black people, but they're ancestors were slave owners. No sir. It's a shit idea, that can in no way be done fairly or sensibly.
    Thats the difference. I see black Americans as Americans. Not just black. And as equal American citizens who also happen to be black. not victims and sub citizens because they happen to be black.

    And sir, before anyone on the woke train interjects here, after 27 years in Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama and Texas, I'd bet I know more black people personally, than most in the woke crowd have ever seen in the flesh. And my texican spanglish is good enough for me to walk the streets of any Mexican city and communicate good enough to get by. And it was learned on the job, and in the neighborhood working and living beside Hispanics, not in a college classroom. So spare the semantics. Because most of the woke people have no idea what they're talking about. The vast majority have never lived or experienced "diversity" in thier lives. It's absolutely lunatic to make neighbors and c p workers start paying eachother because of their respective skin colors and family history. It's absolutely preposterous, stupid and illogical to any concept of diversity and equality in a supposedly free multicultural society that must have equal respect for all in order to function.
    Last edited by Hughinn; 04-03-2021 at 10:11 AM.

  37. #77
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    H, I believe you misunderstood some of what I meant or I could have posted more clearly.

    I didn’t mean to imply that 300K was among the “wealthy elite” Define that please for future discussions, TY. I understand the taxes are meant for 400K and above. Frankly, I’ve long lost track of what/who I feel is “wealthy”, it’s very subjective. At 300K, they can afford a bigger hit on their taxes. 400K, more, 500K more, etc. I honestly don’t see the upper middle class struggling all that much out here & LA has been hit hard. Granted though, some business owners have been hurt, but it’s dependent upon the business (but that’s just my perspective from what I’ve personally see, but I’ve seen a lot).

    Regarding the Floyd trial taking on a deeper meaning? At least what I see in the L.A. times, it sure doesn’t seem to. In fact, I don’t even recall seeing a BLM t-shirt, sign, or corner protester in months aside from the damn professional athletes that feel it’s their “duty” to shove in our faces every second they can. TY Chauvin, you did one better than Colin Kappernick (sp?) on f’n up on relaxing and watching a ball-game.

    What is it with the “woke people”? I have never heard that phrase outside of this forum. Explain it to me please and then if you would remove me from that “group” or other elitists / academics that you refer to. I’d appreciate it greatly.

    I take the last paragraph as a tiny bit of a dig and have to tell you my perspective of blacks and Hispanics is not based upon a college education. I’ve worked and socialized among them since I was 16 and continue to do so. My friends and I are color blind to each other, but trust me, we still are aware of differences and do see things differently and have discussed it openly. In Los Angeles, aside from blacks and Hispanics, I socialize / work with many Asians, Muslims, Jews, Middle Easterners, Russians, etc. I mean at our school there are close to a dozen languages that we need interpreters for. At my wive’s hospital, triple that amount. We are quite “diverse” out here. It’s just in my particular neighborhood that we live in, not so much, lol. At least regarding certain ethnicities actually owning a home here.

    I’m having “fun” reading Beetle’s ramblings and current theories of what did and didn’t kill George. I tend to speak up & get frustrated when I see medical reasons/explanations misrepresented. In fact Beetle has not addressed anything that I have posted, he just keeps posting more articles (which is his right of course).

    Always enjoy our exchanges!

  38. #78
    Hughinn is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by wango View Post
    H, I believe you misunderstood some of what I meant or I could have posted more clearly.

    I didn’t mean to imply that 300K was among the “wealthy elite” Define that please for future discussions, TY. I understand the taxes are meant for 400K and above. Frankly, I’ve long lost track of what/who I feel is “wealthy”, it’s very subjective. At 300K, they can afford a bigger hit on their taxes. 400K, more, 500K more, etc. I honestly don’t see the upper middle class struggling all that much out here & LA has been hit hard. Granted though, some business owners have been hurt, but it’s dependent upon the business (but that’s just my perspective from what I’ve personally see, but I’ve seen a lot).

    Regarding the Floyd trial taking on a deeper meaning? At least what I see in the L.A. times, it sure doesn’t seem to. In fact, I don’t even recall seeing a BLM t-shirt, sign, or corner protester in months aside from the damn professional athletes that feel it’s their “duty” to shove in our faces every second they can. TY Chauvin, you did one better than Colin Kappernick (sp?) on f’n up on relaxing and watching a ball-game.

    What is it with the “woke people”? I have never heard that phrase outside of this forum. Explain it to me please and then if you would remove me from that “group” or other elitists / academics that you refer to. I’d appreciate it greatly.

    I take the last paragraph as a tiny bit of a dig and have to tell you my perspective of blacks and Hispanics is not based upon a college education. I’ve worked and socialized among them since I was 16 and continue to do so. My friends and I are color blind to each other, but trust me, we still are aware of differences and do see things differently and have discussed it openly. In Los Angeles, aside from blacks and Hispanics, I socialize / work with many Asians, Muslims, Jews, Middle Easterners, Russians, etc. I mean at our school there are close to a dozen languages that we need interpreters for. At my wive’s hospital, triple that amount. We are quite “diverse” out here. It’s just in my particular neighborhood that we live in, not so much, lol. At least regarding certain ethnicities actually owning a home here.

    I’m having “fun” reading Beetle’s ramblings and current theories of what did and didn’t kill George. I tend to speak up & get frustrated when I see medical reasons/explanations misrepresented. In fact Beetle has not addressed anything that I have posted, he just keeps posting more articles (which is his right of course).

    Always enjoy our exchanges!
    Wango, that last paragraph wasn't meant for you at all.

    I don't consider you part of the "woke" crowd either. You've got too open of a mind and ask too many objective questions to be one of the "woke" mob.

    And to answer your question, "woke mob" is that specific group of people with a sort of deluded self awareness of righteousness and grandeur and an intolerance to any sort of open discourse that doesn't coincide with thier delusional, very naive , extremely hypocritical and pretentious view of social issues they don't even fully understand and have never personally experienced.
    "Woke" would be describing the mindset and fakeness of such people and conditions. An undeniably indoctrinated people totally devoid of originality and forethought.

    A "think tank" among a woke crowd would look something like the Beavis and butt head hippie teacher sitting in a circle with a bunch of other degenerates and saying : "listen carefully and repeat after me". That'd be a good analogy of a woke think tank. Woke people seldom think for themselves.

    And to be clear, not all people who identify as democrats are woke.
    But all of the woke mob are democrats.

    The leftist democrat party has created the woke mob to serve a purpose. They have indoctrinated and brainwashed trigger words and phrases that are more or less "programmed" into thier psyches. "Racist" for example is an attack command. If the democrat party elite calls something, someone or anything "racist" this is the que for the woke mob to mindlessly attack whatever target thier leaders pointed out. And they do so, mindlessly and faithfully. It doesn't have to make sense or be logical, because nobody in the woke will think about it long enough.

    An example can be seen right now. Georgia enacted voter id laws. The democrat party does not want voter id laws, despite needing an id to have a job, bank account, home, car , be on welfare or anything else, they don't want it to vote.

    So they proclaimed the law "racist" and the woke mob attacks.

    Nobody will stop and think enough to realize, these same democrats are giving illegals id, so they can "participate in society" and that you need an id to get vaccinations, purchase liquor, ammunition or anything else, they don't consider any of that racist. Because it doesn't create a roadblock to thier quest for power.

    But voter id, does put a check on thier power, because it makes cheating more difficult. So they howl "racist" and thier minions who've been trained to respond in a particular manner upon this command, attack whatever thier leaders point to. In this case : voter id.

    There's absolutely no logical argument to be made, that such a law is "racist" . But that doesn't matter to the woke mob. They've got thier orders.
    Last edited by Hughinn; 04-03-2021 at 12:53 PM.

  39. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hughinn View Post
    Wango, that last paragraph wasn't meant for you at all.

    I don't consider you part of the "woke" crowd either. You've got too open of a mind and ask too many objective questions to be one of the "woke" mob.

    And to answer your question, "woke mob" is that specific group of people with a sort of deluded self awareness of righteousness and grandeur and an intolerance to any sort of open discourse that doesn't coincide with thier delusional, very naive , extremely hypocritical and pretentious view of social issues they don't even fully understand and have never personally experienced.
    "Woke" would be describing the mindset and fakeness of such people and conditions. An undeniably indoctrinated people totally devoid of originality and forethought.

    A "think tank" among a woke crowd would look something like the Beavis and butt head hippie teacher sitting in a circle with a bunch of other degenerates and saying : "listen carefully and repeat after me". That'd be a good analogy of a woke think tank. Woke people seldom think for themselves.

    And to be clear, not all people who identify as democrats are woke.
    But all of the woke mob are democrats.

    The leftist democrat party has created the woke mob to serve a purpose. They have indoctrinated and brainwashed trigger words and phrases that are more or less "programmed" into thier psyches. "Racist" for example is an attack command. If the democrat party elite calls something, someone or anything "racist" this is the que for the woke mob to mindlessly attack whatever target thier leaders pointed out. And they do so, mindlessly and faithfully. It doesn't have to make sense or be logical, because nobody in the woke will think about it long enough.

    An example can be seen right now. Georgia enacted voter id laws. The democrat party does not want voter id laws, despite needing an id to have a job, bank account, home, car , be on welfare or anything else, they don't want it to vote.

    So they proclaimed the law "racist" and the woke mob attacks.

    Nobody will stop and think enough to realize, these same democrats are giving illegals id, so they can "participate in society" and that you need an id to get vaccinations, purchase liquor, ammunition or anything else, they don't consider any of that racist. Because it doesn't create a roadblock to thier quest for power.

    But voter id, does put a check on thier power, because it makes cheating more difficult. So they howl "racist" and thier minions who've been trained to respond in a particular manner upon this command, attack whatever thier leaders point to. In this case : voter id.

    There's absolutely no logical argument to be made, that such a law is "racist" . But that doesn't matter to the woke mob. They've got thier orders.
    Lol, I’m happy to hear you say that; at least about me not being a woke person.

    Looking forward to hearing/reading Baden’s medical examination on George, but aside from that can’t wait till this trial is over. When I do post about medicine, I hope that no-body thinks I’m being a smart ass, not my intent.
    Last edited by wango; 04-03-2021 at 04:35 PM.
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  40. #80
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    Lol. Check out the unedited testimony from Mrs Karen here.

    Completely different than the pieced together edit clip I seen on msdnc.

    https://youtu.be/y2CBkpcxlBU

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