do you guys beleive that there is life after death???

[decadbal]

wow u guys are serous eh..lol

[max2extreme]

No, rapists and murderers are not born that way, but they are born into dysfunctional family systems that enable them to do what they do.

Essentially, the universe operates like the balls on a billiard table . . . you hit a ball with the cue ball, and where it goes depends on the angle and force it was struck, and the condition of the table's surface, and other factors. Everything works on an action/reaction basis. Every reaction has a cause, every cause has its reaction. No exception.

Check out philosophical "Determinism." Makes lots of sense to me . . .
-Tock

So Tock, Are you saying that rapists and murders all come from dysfunctional family systems, or that all people from dysfunctional family systems grow up to be murderers and rapists?? hmm.

[max2extreme]

Good question. I like the way everybody respects each others ideals. I dont think there is life after death, especially as a med student, and taking all those biology courses (spend 10 secs in childrens ward and you see what i mean). Its funny though alot of my christian friends say I am going to hell because I dont believe in jesus and so forth but then i think of all the volunteer work i do (because i like it) and that they dont do, then i think to myself god must be really crazy to send me to hell for helping others. I just think all religion was created to give man discipline and now its used as an instrument for wars. The only bad thing about believing what i believe is that if you go and kill or rape 100 peeps, in the end your going to end up the same as anybody else - worm food, religion was only created to prevent this stuff. I'm still in dismay how peeps can argue against evolution - but everybody has their beliefs. Just be good to one another and nothing to worry about ( for example pm me a source to ug canadian lab - and you'll get to the higher place you desire - lol)

Hi Geoneo...Can you tell me/us why your biology classes make you think there is no life after death? What does biology say about that subject? (not meant to be a rhetorical question.) Your beliefs go along with a lot of people's; myself included in the past. Im happy I looked at the bible with an open mind, took it in, prayed about it, and came to the conclusions I have today. I dont want to beat a dead horse but you cant get to heaven on your own actions. Theres some earlier posts on this thread about it. Your christian friends are right. I had a christian friend tell me that I was going to hell and I was like you. I was mad, kinda insulted, but now I know and he was right. Question for ya. You are in dismay about how peeps can argue against evolution. Im in dismay about how peeps can argue religion. There are TONS of scientific studies and discoveries that prove things in the bible. How can people argue that?? There are scientifically proven facts in the bible that different people PREDICTED future events. If you believe that all religion was created to control people, Im assuming you mean man created it and not God, what do you say about multiple people being able to see into the future and all of them part of this 'secret bible creation group'?

max

[Pale Horse]

Tock , the 600lb bench thing was a stretch! Now I was raised in an alcoholic dysfunctional home, my parents divorced when I was 8 my stepfather was physically and emotionally abusive, even remember some inappropriate touching if you will. When I was 16 I got big enough to kick his ass and then he was gone. Now I was an angry person. Yet I still excelled in three sports was a B avg. student, got scholarship offers to colleges. On and on I could go about the good things in my life. I made choices all along the way, some set me back some moved me forward but they were all MY choices.

[Badgerman]

Tock , the 600lb bench thing was a stretch! Now I was raised in an alcoholic dysfunctional home, my parents divorced when I was 8 my stepfather was physically and emotionally abusive, even remember some inappropriate touching if you will. When I was 16 I got big enough to kick his ass and then he was gone. Now I was an angry person. Yet I still excelled in three sports was a B avg. student, got scholarship offers to colleges. On and on I could go about the good things in my life. I made choices all along the way, some set me back some moved me forward but they were all MY choices.

I disagree....God ordered your every step......and I say that in a good way.

[Pale Horse]

Badger, I agree with the path of my life but tell me in your opinion how does that explain evil people?

[Badgerman]

Badger, I agree with the path of my life but tell me in your opinion how does that explain evil people?

Isaiah 45:7
"forming light and creating darkness, making peace and creating evil; I, the Lord [YHWH], do all these things" (Isa 45:7)

[Pale Horse]

What purpose does evil serve?

[Badgerman]

What purpose does evil serve?

To know good.....that's all I can figure.

[max2extreme]

Badger, 1victor,

Badger, I think what 1victor is tryin to get across is that hes had many bad things happen to him and hes not a rapist or a murderer (going back to tock's belief that rapists and murderers come from dysfunctional families and thats how they are taught these ways, instead of each person having 'free will' to rape or murder or not to rape or murder). 1victor, correct? I think ive confused myself...hopefully not you.

max

[Pale Horse]

Badger, that is a complete 180 from the New Testament. Both books carry weight but as a Christian the New Testament obviously is what focus my faith around.

[Pale Horse]

Max, yes that was exactly my point.

[Bryan2]

Can someone refer me to a scripture that states all people go to heaven?

Other than the 144,000

[Bryan2]

Assuming that the bible does say people go to hell does the bible reference anything whatsoever as to it being eternal fiery torment?


The only place that the bible talks about people going to what many beleive is hell is the reference of the lake of fire.

But then again it states that hades which is refered to hell and death itself are also thrown into the lake of fire.

Can anyone give their view points on these things for me.

If anyone has questions refer to my posts on earlier pages.

[Badgerman]

"Only the gold, and the silver, the brass, the iron, the tin, and the lead, Every thing that may abide the fire, you shall make it go through the fire, and it shall be clean: nevertheless it shall be purified with the water of separation: and all that abides not the fire you shall make go through the water" (Num 31:22-23). Notice that these two verses were an "ordinance of the law which the Lord commanded Moses" (Num 31:21). As you are seeing all the apparently non-important ceremonies are representative of higher meanings. The basic patterns of these ceremonies are of a great significance in finding out God's plan.

Notice that anything that can abide in fire shall be made to go through this fire to be cleansed. Now flesh and blood can't abide in fire, for it burns up. But spirit can abide in fire, for spirit can't die (Luke 20:36). Further, the Bible makes comparisons between spiritual things and the metals described in Num 31:22. For example, see the symbolic image of Satan's spiritual kingdoms in Dan 2:31-40. The metals described in Num 31:22 are used to describe the make-up of the image in Dan 2:31-40. During the 1000 years this fire baptism will purify the satanic spirits of their spiritual impurity. This is their judgement.

[Bryan2]

What purpose does evil serve?

The answer itself is free will God also gave all angels free will including satan which is the founder of evil when people ask why does God allow such bad things to happen he is proving that he is a loving god to all of his creations including that of which have turned out the worst by giving satan his chance for free will during his reign of the earths system of things which is in its final days itself.

[max2extreme]

Evil exists because of man's first sin. Evil was a choice. Again proves that man has free will.

max

[Pale Horse]

All excellent points. Thanks guys

[MMC78]

Why do people care if there is an afterlife?

If you simply die and cease to exist, it can't be any worse than before you were born.

[geoneo]

Hello max,
you make some interesting points, i can tell you are a reborn christian - and i am happy for you because it gives you peace. But all religions have scientific prove, during med school i remeber my muslim friends brag to me how their holy book was correct about alot of things to do with embryology.
Even my religion wich is the Sikh faith is by fact the most scientifically proven - i bet you didn't know that, i didn't either till my profs told the class. But just because every religion has some scientifically proven facts (embrology, their are infinite amount of planets ect...) they also have many scientifically proven mistakes ( the earth is the center of the universe ect). So since every religion including mine and yours have scientific proven mistakes this can not be the work of god - unless we believe god to be fallable. We have so much prove about evolution with actuall discoveries (homo hominis ect) Even at one time in mans history their was two species of man homo sapiens and H. neanderthalensis, but the H. neanderthalensis all died out we have prove of their existence with bone records. If you are to believe that evolution is farce, then you have to believe that their is some big conspiracy going on, and they are able to plant bones within miles of solid rock and leave no mark ect. Just read up on evolution and tell me what you really think about actuall scientific prove.
Also max even I can tell into the future I can make 1000s of predictions, and at least 10 will be correct, and if peeps forget about the wrong ones, then I will probably be famous - but after I am dead lol.
I only believe their is no life after death because of my own experiences and what i read in under grad about evolution and so forth, wich led me to blieve that religion is created by man, and thus its philosophy about life after dead was also just created by man to make us do good things so we can get to the higher place.
I also dont think that god wouldn't want us to keep worshipping him if he created us, just like i dont ask my children to worship me - that would just be selfish - if god can see all then he can see if some one helps out thier fellow man is a better person then someone who just prays but doesn't help out anyone.
Everybody should just live in peace, be happy and workout with or without gear -lol
Max i am happy for you that you find peace in your beliefs.
happy lifting all
Geoneo

[muff-chaser]

well i know that i believe in God, and i know that Jesus died for our sins. i think to get to heaven you have to know Jesus. i do beleive in life after death. i think a person goes to heaven or hell and i know that it last for eternity. for all of the people on here who are non believers or unsure about Jesus i think it would be wise to try to develope a persoaal relationship with Him.

i dont think that you have to go to church all the time to go to heaven, but in my personal instance it seems to make my life better when i go. JESUS IS REAL HEAVEN AND HELL ARE REAL AND ONE DAY JESUS WILL COME BACK-4 REAL

[max2extreme]

What a way to end a thread.. In the name of the Lord. hehe

amen

max

[FCECC2]

What a way to end a thread.. In the name of the Lord. hehe

amen

max

and just to kill it, heres my input: birth, life, death, done.

[BigMike J]

I dunno but here are some good pics.

http://www.ghostresearch.org/ghostpics/

[Z-Ro]

Yup I believe in God. In my opinion, Evil is the absence of Good. If good leaves, then what can fill it, Evil. So thats my opinion when people ask if God created all, then how is there such Evil. God didn't create it...its just a absence of Good. Lucifer just fills in the spaces. Evil lurks without a doubt, sometimes I even notice it. But I'm not always "holy" enough if you will to catch it, but sometimes I notice Evil coming from someone, you may think I'm weird, then so be it. If you start trying to catch it, you may be surprised. But like I said, it doesn't happen all the time, its kind of one of those situations where for some odd reason, the though comes into my head and I notice it.

[workdude]

when your dead your dead. Thats it.

[bulldawg_28]

This is an interesting story. Awhile back my grandmother was diagnosed with cancer. She then really began to wonder whether she'd survive or not. Well in a dream she saw a man dressed in a robe. He had a beard and long dark hair, and in his hands he held a book. He told her that if the book had marks on it, then she wouldn't survive. But if the book wasn't marked then she would survive. Well the book wasn't marked, and she then lived another 8 years.

[max2extreme]

Thats interresting. And she believes it was an angel im assuming? Was she a christian before or did that make her believe by chance?

-max

[Badgerman]

Yup I believe in God. In my opinion, Evil is the absence of Good. If good leaves, then what can fill it, Evil. So thats my opinion when people ask if God created all, then how is there such Evil. God didn't create it...its just a absence of Good. Lucifer just fills in the spaces. Evil lurks without a doubt, sometimes I even notice it. But I'm not always "holy" enough if you will to catch it, but sometimes I notice Evil coming from someone, you may think I'm weird, then so be it. If you start trying to catch it, you may be surprised. But like I said, it doesn't happen all the time, its kind of one of those situations where for some odd reason, the though comes into my head and I notice it.

Evil=opposite of good......God creates everything

[bulldawg_28]

Thats interresting. And she believes it was an angel im assuming? Was she a christian before or did that make her believe by chance?

-max

She believed that he was Jesus. From what I was told she had been a christian her whole life.

[punk_bbuilder]

I hope so

[Kärnfysikern]

I've seen ghosts twice in my life as clear as day........I have also experienced a few other extreme events in my life that has made me conclude within my own heart that yes there is a god.


Interesting.....

Revelation 14:10 says, " . . . and he shall be tormented with fire and BRIMSTONE . . ." And Job 18 describes the " . . . PLACE of him that knoweth not God" (vs 21), in verse 15 as, " . . . BRIMSTONE shall be scattered upon his habitation." Do you know what brimstone is? It's sulfur. And do you know where sulfur or brimstone is found? INSIDE THIS EARTH! According to the book Volcanoes by Pierre Kohler (p. 43), when Mt. St Helens erupted in 1980 — 150,000 tons of sulfurous gas was ejected! Job is the oldest book in the Bible, written over 3,000 years ago, and yet Job knew what science wouldn't know for years — inside this earth is BRIMSTONE!

Nature magazine recently discovered (July 2002) what the Bible knew over 3,000 years ago. Inside this earth is "fire and brimstone":


http://www.av1611.org/hell.html

Umh did the thought ever ocur to you that maby just maby there where volcanos before the bible was written and maby they called the **** that flew out of volcanos for brimstone and maby just maby did they assume the stuff that flew out of the volcano was from the inner earth

[Kärnfysikern]

Without purpose life has no meaning. To all that do not believe I would ask what is your puropse in life? What drives you? What consumes you and keeps you moving forward. It could be a good thing like love etc.. or it could be anger or hate..etc..

I ask all of you what is YOUR purpose in life. Please no shallow funny answers, I am genuinely interested in your responses.

Why does life has to have a purpose? IMO we are just animals that have gotten a bit to inteligent. Do a dog contemplate what the purpose of his life is?
Why should we contemplate it?

We are to smart for our own good and to stupid to get the whole picture

[Kärnfysikern]

BTW my oppinion on what the purpose of life(not only mine but every human beeing) is gaining knoweledge. Learning everything that can be learned. I belive in a god, but not the christian god and I belive that for every new discovery we make about our world, every new law of physics, every new scientific discovery we come one step closer to understanding gods plan, one step closer to understanding his designe and if we as a race by some miracle survive and continue to evolve(by nature and with gene therapy and every other way we can enhance the mind and body) then one day in the DISTANT(millions of year in the future, maby billions) future we will know it all and we will be the new gods.

I belive in life after death, I have heard to much stuff about ghosts from people I trust to belive otherwise and I have been through some **** myself that makes me almost 100% certain ghots exists and in that case there must be a afterlife.

[Kärnfysikern]

What purpose does evil serve?

The answer itself is free will God also gave all angels free will including satan which is the founder of evil when people ask why does God allow such bad things to happen he is proving that he is a loving god to all of his creations including that of which have turned out the worst by giving satan his chance for free will during his reign of the earths system of things which is in its final days itself.

if god is so loving, kind and caring. Why did lucifer revolt against him?

How could lucifer choose the path of evil when evil didnt even exist before him? How can a creation from a perfect god even consider anything evil? If god is perfect then so should we his creations be.

[max2extreme]

Why does life has to have a purpose? IMO we are just animals that have gotten a bit to inteligent. Do a dog contemplate what the purpose of his life is?
Why should we contemplate it?

We are to smart for our own good and to stupid to get the whole picture :lol

In this post you say "why does life have to have a purpose" then in your next post you say "IMO lifes purpose is to gain knowledge". So do you believe there is a purpose or not? So, you think there is a god but not the christian god. Im assuming you believe 'your god' created you? If so, i assume you believe your god created you to gain knowledge?? is that right?

[Kärnfysikern]

just because I feel there is a purpose I dont belive a person HAVE to feel there is a grand purpose to life. A simple thing like just wanting to live a happy life is enough purpose to live and it should not be looked down upon by anone.

I dont think god created me to gain knoweledge. I think it just created the universe for reason we just cant comprehend and I dont think it has any influence on our lives now. I dont think god created me, Im just a random thing that occured in its grand creation. Think about it. Think about how utterly insanely big the universe is. Isnt it kind of folish to think that only the select few of mankind that is christian is allowed to come into heaven.

I mean the universe is so **** big, so **** huge, that there HAS to be life on millions of other planets. Are they not allowed into heaven just because they are not humans and not christians? Out of every life form out there why should christian humans be the ones that have gained gods grace?

If the god of my imagination exists I think he is so utterly ahead of humans mentaly that we cant even begin to comprehend what his plan is. Just like a ant cant begin to comprehend what we humans think.
If he created everything then he must exist outside of time and space and that is a fact that is impossible to grasp cause we cant even imagine something like that.

[max2extreme]

I personally dont think its foolish. Of course looking at my point of view, you have to remember I believe the bible is God's word. I see it as God created the universe for Humans, as is said in the bible. Of course there wasnt 'christians' for thousands of years later. After God sent Jesus to the world, who was prophesized, only thru him did we get to heaven. We cant really say for sure about your "...universe is so **** big, ...." paragraph. Most assume there has to be life on one of the millions of other planets becaust of statistics, or "whats the chances that there isnt life on another planet"...Most assume slim. But it could be that there is NO other life form out there. Couldnt it? It could be that the limits of the universe are set and there is a point of where we cant tell anything further (distance wise) and we just dont know the difference in that it is the boundary of the universe vs. we dont have the technology. Possible. Do I know for sure...no. But it doesnt mention anything in the bible about little green men.. I agree with you saying "...we cant even begin to comprehend what his plan is..." and half about your "ant" analogy. but, what if we could turn ourselves into an ant. We could speak the ant language (if there is one). Lets say that ants had religions in their ant life.. heh. We turn ourself into an ant, tell them about god, give them an 'ant bible'....blah blah... Then they can comprehend. Just as Jesus came to us. also add to that, we are able to talk ant language in our present human form. we could stand next to an ant, he wouldnt be able to see us because we are so big or whatever. we tell that ant, I am God. blah blah. Hes gonna go tell his ant friends about it and thus, we have a religion. That was a long babble..sorry. but i agree, we cant even imagine his works, plans, or anything that happens, all we have his is teaching in the bible. That we can understand.

[max2extreme]

if god is so loving, kind and caring. Why did lucifer revolt against him?

How could lucifer choose the path of evil when evil didnt even exist before him? How can a creation from a perfect god even consider anything evil? If god is perfect then so should we his creations be.

Lucifer wasnt satisfied with God's kindness and Lucifer was greedy. He wanted to be the greatest ABOVE god. And he thought he could, thus he revolted. This is the way I believe and see it. There may be bible quotes, but I dont know. but, God is perfect good. He created everything, besides humans, angels, etc. When he created everything, even the angels, he gave them free will. God set down what is right and wrong, basically rules. He could have said "stealing is good." but no, he said "stealing is bad". So you have rules, you have free will. Thus you have right and wrong, good and evil.

How do we know that the perfect god wanted to make perfectly "good" creations (good as far as good vs evil). Actually we know this isnt what he wanted because of our free will.

[Juggernaut]

I believe this is the only life I'll ever have. If there was reincarnation how would you know you've ever been here before?