** The ASK GB ANYTHING thread (diet/nutrition related) **

[DuggyPhresh]

I saw you posted earlier about not worrying about the numbers, so I got a numbers question lol. Sticking around a 40/40/20 setup, is it ok to have lots of extra protein (above the recommended 1.2-2g per LBM) to maintain that 40% area? And since all that extra protein wouldn't be used to restore muscle, what happens to it? (Stores as fat, used as fuel like carbs, etc..)

[Dougiefresh7707]

I saw you posted earlier about not worrying about the numbers, so I got a numbers question lol. Sticking around a 40/40/20 setup, is it ok to have lots of extra protein (above the recommended 1.2-2g per LBM) to maintain that 40% area? And since all that extra protein wouldn't be used to restore muscle, what happens to it? (Stores as fat, used as fuel like carbs, etc..)

Didn't mean to like sry but no it's not good to have to much it's hard on your kidneys GB will elaborate I'm sure it's a waste some go 2 per pound of lbm not per pound of body weight keep that I mind too. Protein isn't used for fuel whatever isn't used is wasted.

[gbrice75]

I saw you posted earlier about not worrying about the numbers, so I got a numbers question lol. Sticking around a 40/40/20 setup, is it ok to have lots of extra protein (above the recommended 1.2-2g per LBM) to maintain that 40% area? And since all that extra protein wouldn't be used to restore muscle, what happens to it? (Stores as fat, used as fuel like carbs, etc..)

The fact that you're asking this tells me your numbers are probably way off. i.e. if 40% of your calories from protein puts you way over 1.2-2g/lb of LBM, something is off. What are your stats, and what are you planning to take in daily, in terms of calories?

Didn't mean to like sry but no it's not good to have to much it's hard on your kidneys GB will elaborate I'm sure it's a waste some go 2 per pound of lbm not per pound of body weight keep that I mind too. Protein isn't used for fuel whatever isn't used is wasted.

^^ he did say per lb/LBM, not total bodyweight. That said - it's probably still too much, or at the very least, more than what's needed.

On another note - you 2 are gonna drive me crazy with your names!! I was actually gonna start a thread about how we got 2 new Doug E. Fresh members who joined right around the same time, lol.

[DuggyPhresh]

I assure you we are two different people GB. Lol

[gbrice75]

I assure you we are two different people GB. Lol

lol nah man, never doubted that. Just funny how you both came along around the same time... and the fact Doug E. Fresh is far from current, lol. You guys are either both named Doug, or you're about my age and enjoy the old school!

[DuggyPhresh]

^^^A little of both lol old school is good.

I've got that BOD POD appt next week and they offer a BMR since its my first time, so I'll post those numbers next week to get a baseline for my calorie requirements.

[gbrice75]

^^^A little of both lol old school is good.

I've got that BOD POD appt next week and they offer a BMR since its my first time, so I'll post those numbers next week to get a baseline for my calorie requirements.

Cool man. Speaking of BOD POD testing - I looked up my area the other day and found NOTHING!! How the fuk is it possible not to have a Bod Pod test center in NJ (most densely populated state in the country, and I'm 30 mins outside NYC), but 405 manages to find one down in south bumblefvck where he lives!?!?

[DuggyPhresh]

Posted BOD POD stats on my thread if you wouldn't mind taking a peek GB?

[Dougiefresh7707]

Hey GB wondering if your
Familiar with the post workout shake sup mass fusion?

[Freestyle Child]

Whats the idea behind separation of fats and carbs with protein sources?

E.g: Pro/carb and pro/fat

[gbrice75]

Posted BOD POD stats on my thread if you wouldn't mind taking a peek GB?

Sure man... can you link me just in case I can't find it (haven't looked yet)?

Hey GB wondering if your
Familiar with the post workout shake sup mass fusion?

I haven't used it, but I'm familiar with it in terms of ingredients, etc.

I'm not a big fan of these types of powders. IMO, you can make your own with real food, easily. My standard protein smoothie is 600 calories, and I could easily make it more (or less) just by changing up a few ingredient quantities. IMO, too much crap in those powders... 28g of sugar... who needs that?

Whats the idea behind separation of fats and carbs with protein sources?

E.g: Pro/carb and pro/fat

It's something I used to be vehement about, but not so much anymore.

The idea was that glucose is your body's primary (and preferred) fuel source, so when it's present in abundance (mainly from eating carbs), your body will use it first and have less capacity to burn bodyfat. Further, consuming dietary fat on top of carbs would make it easier for that dietary fat to be converted to bodyfat.

The fact of the matter is it really boils down to energy demands. If energy demands exceed energy input (carbs, fats, etc), there's no reason your body won't burn fat in addition to glucose/glycogen, etc.

Having said that, my original position still makes some sense to me, just to a lesser degree. I generally have a meal that's either higher in carbs/lower in fat, or vice versa. I try not to have both macros high. Mainly, I stick to eating carbs around my workout window and/or to fuel activity. Other than that, I keep carbs low (and BGL/insulin suppressed) in an effort to maximize fat mobilization and oxidation.

[DuggyPhresh]

Sure man... can you link me just in case I can't find it (haven't looked yet)?

http://forums.steroid.com/nutrition-...ck-basics.html

Rough diet for 7 small meals a day and my BOD POD results are on the 2nd page. Appreciate any input to fine tune... thanks.

[basketballfan22]

Just wanted to compliment your avatar gb. You look way bigger than I imagined you from your other avatar. I didn't imagine you shaved your head either. Are you sure you don't respond well to testosterone ? Lol, just kidding.

[basketballfan22]

I just realized that my above post may sound kind of weird. I don't want to give the impression that I think about you all the time, lol.

[austinite]

^ Stalker!

[basketballfan22]

^ Stalker!

Lmao. I know! First I am imagining your voice. Now I am imagining gb's body. Maybe I am not as straight as I thought?

[austinite]

Crap. Now it's gone to a whole new level.

[gbrice75]

http://forums.steroid.com/nutrition-...ck-basics.html

Rough diet for 7 small meals a day and my BOD POD results are on the 2nd page. Appreciate any input to fine tune... thanks.

Cool, thanks man. I'll check it out ASAP.

Just wanted to compliment your avatar gb. You look way bigger than I imagined you from your other avatar. I didn't imagine you shaved your head either. Are you sure you don't respond well to testosterone? Lol, just kidding.

Lmao. I started losing my hair in my early 20's (37 now), so it's definitely not by choice. Clearly I respond to DHT. :\

If looking bigger is the illusion this avatar gives, I'll stick with it, lol. Truth is the 'illusion' of size can be altered quite a bit just by the pose. I'm horrible at posing but managed to get a decent shot in this avy. I'm not big by any stretch, and probably look closer (when relaxed) to my last avy.

I just realized that my above post may sound kind of weird. I don't want to give the impression that I think about you all the time, lol.

Lmfao... no worries bro.

Lmao. I know! First I am imagining your voice. Now I am imagining gb's body. Maybe I am not as straight as I thought?

Crap. Now it's gone to a whole new level.

Bahahaha!!! You guys made my day, thx!

[aussie made]

Gb. I've come off a cut and now want to bulk again. I'm eating 500 surplus. (2750) only thing is I'm still really hungry before bed, then when I wake up I got bad hunger pains. Should I up calories little more?

[gbrice75]

Gb. I've come off a cut and now want to bulk again. I'm eating 500 surplus. (2750) only thing is I'm still really hungry before bed, then when I wake up I got bad hunger pains. Should I up calories little more?

Were you hungry during the cut?

I wouldn't base calories on hunger per se; base them on progress (or lack thereof). Chances are it's not true hunger, just 'learned' hunger.

Having said that, what do your meals/schedule look like? What are the food choices, how many times a day are you eating, and how frequently?

[aussie made]

Were you hungry during the cut?

I wouldn't base calories on hunger per se; base them on progress (or lack thereof). Chances are it's not true hunger, just 'learned' hunger.

Having said that, what do your meals/schedule look like? What are the food choices, how many times a day are you eating, and how frequently?

Cutting I wasn't as much, on and off. It's more been since I starting eating more again. I have 6 meals a day around every 3 hours. Only food I have is egg whites, chicken, lean pork mince. 350g oats over 4 meals. Then 100g multigrain pasta, then now going to introduce 50g rice. Have alot of oats because it easy for when I work. Just drink them. I fine threw out day, it my last meal of only 175g chicken and 100g broc.

[irlkev]

Hey GB. Love this thread. So much shared info going on that all can relate to in some way. Could do with a little piece of your knowledge if you have the time. I'm 44, 101kg, 5'11'', BF% 20.2 as of last week.( I went to a local university sports lab and had a DXA body composition scan done). And yes i do realise its a little high but its down from around 24% at start of year. Also have just started cycle last week. Have worked out my TDEE at 3200 cals given my fairly active job and 5 days a week training. My LBM is 77kg/170lbs. Taking all that into account and as i'm now looking to increase size and preferably my LBM, what is your opinion on how i should go about it. I was thinking just try and add another 500 cals mixed between pro and carbs. Ive tidied up my diet recently and generally eat every 3 hours, usually getting 70g protein and 70-100 carbs when required. If its late afternoon or nighttime i usually restrict carbs as i take it theyre not needed.
A general overview or any advice available would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

[Sweetss]

I'm currently on a carb cycle. I believe my calorie intake on low/no carb days is too low and is hindering my gains. I'm also experiencing fatigue, feel like I'm retaining fat instead of losing it and all of the other symptoms of not eating enough.

I'm currently taking in 1500 calories on my MOD days, ~2000 (upping carbs to 185g) on my refeed day (twice/month), ~1750 on HIGH day and 950 on my LOW/NO carb days. The current split I'm doing is 50p/35c/15f.

Layout is: mod mod mod low low low high

My question is, I feel as though I should be taking in at minimum 1200-1300 calories on my low days, do I just raise the protein intake as well as fat? Should I be trying a different split? I am not losing at weight each week, my lifts are intense as well as HIIT cardio/fasted cardio. I lift with my boyfriend who is on this site as well so I know my lifts are good. What do you suggest I change? Even if I switch up my ratios of 45/35/20 I still think I need to up my low calorie days.

My stats:

27 years old
5'4
144lbs

[gbrice75]

Cutting I wasn't as much, on and off. It's more been since I starting eating more again. I have 6 meals a day around every 3 hours. Only food I have is egg whites, chicken, lean pork mince. 350g oats over 4 meals. Then 100g multigrain pasta, then now going to introduce 50g rice. Have alot of oats because it easy for when I work. Just drink them. I fine threw out day, it my last meal of only 175g chicken and 100g broc.

I think it's safe to surmise that you're not dealing with true hunger; rather, simply 'feelings' of hunger perpetuated by the increase in calories. Often times, eating begets eating.

You could shift things around a bit and make your last meal of the day larger. Personally, for the sake of satiety, I'd have (and usually do) have beef as my last meal - much more satiating than chicken, not only in and of itself, but the higher fat content of beef slows absorption and will help with a feeling of 'fullness' for longer. If you continue with the chicken, I'd add some fat into that last meal for sure.

Hey GB. Love this thread. So much shared info going on that all can relate to in some way.

Awesome, thanks buddy! This is why I enjoy keeping it going!

Could do with a little piece of your knowledge if you have the time. I'm 44, 101kg, 5'11'', BF% 20.2 as of last week.( I went to a local university sports lab and had a DXA body composition scan done). And yes i do realise its a little high but its down from around 24% at start of year. Also have just started cycle last week.

Why?

Have worked out my TDEE at 3200 cals given my fairly active job and 5 days a week training. My LBM is 77kg/170lbs. Taking all that into account and as i'm now looking to increase size and preferably my LBM, what is your opinion on how i should go about it. I was thinking just try and add another 500 cals mixed between pro and carbs. Ive tidied up my diet recently and generally eat every 3 hours, usually getting 70g protein and 70-100 carbs when required. If its late afternoon or nighttime i usually restrict carbs as i take it theyre not needed. A general overview or any advice available would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but at 20-ish% bodyfat, the idea of increasing anything wouldn't even be a consideration for me, and I DEFINITELY wouldn't be running gear. My reasons are threefold:

1- The fact that you were already in the mid-20's bodyfat indicates you likely don't know (yet) how to diet properly to STAY lean, let along get there (which is harder). A goal of adding mass at this point will probably yield you additional bodyfat. So, if you put on 5-10lbs of muscle but wind up back at 25% bodyfat, then have to go through a massive cutting effort (and probably lose the gains in the process), is it worth it? Not in my opinion. The way to go is to get down to an appreciable bodyfat first (~12%), essentially working with a 'blank canvass', and then slowly add mass from there.

2- At 20% bodyfat, you're going to have a hard time seeing any gains in LBM you may make. This usually leads to frustration, and ultimately, quitting. Again, when you're lean, you can literally see your body changing... THIS keeps you motivated and working even harder.

3- AAS at your currently condition isn't advisable. For one, the risk of sides increases considerably at higher bodyfat percentages. I don't want to digress too far and get into why (you can look this up, related to estrogen), but just know it's a reality. Further, let's say you do make some decent gains in LBM and miraculously don't put on ANY bodyfat. You're still gonna be 20%. What then? Cut? You'll lose your gains, because you won't be eating to maintain your newly acquired mass.

For all of these reasons, I think it becomes abundantly clear that getting lean first is not only the optimal - but responsible way to go. It's your body, and ultimately you have to decide, but if you choose to continue with adding mass, I wouldn't feel comfortable advising you with regard to that effort, because I don't agree with it and wouldn't personally do it myself (and wouldn't advise people on anything I wouldn't do myself).

I hope you understand.

I'm currently on a carb cycle. I believe my calorie intake on low/no carb days is too low and is hindering my gains. I'm also experiencing fatigue, feel like I'm retaining fat instead of losing it and all of the other symptoms of not eating enough.

What makes you 'feel' like you're retaining fat? Most of us (me included) are head cases when it comes to this lifestyle. Today, I feel like a sloppy walking pile of shit, but the reality is I look better than 98% of people I encounter on a daily basis. So ultimately, we have to base changes we make on tangible results. Have you been measuring (waist, hips, legs, etc.)? How about the way your clothes fit? Have you been tracking your weight?

Don't get me wrong - you could very well be right about what's happening with your body. I just have to point out the above as people often don't consider all of this. The fact you're feeling fatigued does concern me however.

I'm currently taking in 1500 calories on my MOD days, ~2000 (upping carbs to 185g) on my refeed day (twice/month), ~1750 on HIGH day and 950 on my LOW/NO carb days. The current split I'm doing is 50p/35c/15f.

Layout is: mod mod mod low low low high

My question is, I feel as though I should be taking in at minimum 1200-1300 calories on my low days, do I just raise the protein intake as well as fat?

Ok, a few thoughts. First - 950 calories is DEFINITELY too low. I wouldn't advise anybody to drop below 1200, ever (fasting aside). Low days are offset by a high day, and to a lesser degree, moderate days, but the fact is neither of your mod-high are very 'robust'.

First - what's your primary goal? I would assume fat loss, but you mentioned "hindering gains". Realize that gains with this type of diet plan (and at your caloric intake) are somewhat unrealistic. The focus should be to maintain muscle while slowly reducing bodyfat.

What is your current BF%? Based on the link, where would you put yourself?

http://forums.steroid.com/nutrition-...men-women.html

Should I be trying a different split? I am not losing at weight each week, my lifts are intense as well as HIIT cardio/fasted cardio. I lift with my boyfriend who is on this site as well so I know my lifts are good. What do you suggest I change? Even if I switch up my ratios of 45/35/20 I still think I need to up my low calorie days.

My stats:

27 years old
5'4
144lbs

Agree 100% - start with upping your low days. Start with 1200 calories and see how you feel at that. Increase calories via fats. I mean, as it stands, you're eating roughly 16g fat on low days... that's WAY low. Even at 1200 calories/15% fats, you're only around 26g... but it's better. Definitely do that.

2 - start refeeding weekly. That should make a big difference. I would expect your worst days fall during the 'low' phase of the cycle on weeks where you didn't refeed. Btw, what do you follow when you don't refeed - moderate or low?

I think those 2 changes alone will help a great deal. Your split is fine as is. It's very obvious that calories were too low on the low days. Try this out for ~2 weeks and please follow up to let me know how you're feeling!!

Hope this helps.

[gbrice75]

Cutting I wasn't as much, on and off. It's more been since I starting eating more again. I have 6 meals a day around every 3 hours. Only food I have is egg whites, chicken, lean pork mince. 350g oats over 4 meals. Then 100g multigrain pasta, then now going to introduce 50g rice. Have alot of oats because it easy for when I work. Just drink them. I fine threw out day, it my last meal of only 175g chicken and 100g broc.

I think it's safe to surmise that you're not dealing with true hunger; rather, simply 'feelings' of hunger perpetuated by the increase in calories. Often times, eating begets eating.

You could shift things around a bit and make your last meal of the day larger. Personally, for the sake of satiety, I'd have (and usually do) have beef as my last meal - much more satiating than chicken, not only in and of itself, but the higher fat content of beef slows absorption and will help with a feeling of 'fullness' for longer. If you continue with the chicken, I'd add some fat into that last meal for sure.

Hey GB. Love this thread. So much shared info going on that all can relate to in some way.

Awesome, thanks buddy! This is why I enjoy keeping it going!

Could do with a little piece of your knowledge if you have the time. I'm 44, 101kg, 5'11'', BF% 20.2 as of last week.( I went to a local university sports lab and had a DXA body composition scan done). And yes i do realise its a little high but its down from around 24% at start of year. Also have just started cycle last week.

Why?

Have worked out my TDEE at 3200 cals given my fairly active job and 5 days a week training. My LBM is 77kg/170lbs. Taking all that into account and as i'm now looking to increase size and preferably my LBM, what is your opinion on how i should go about it. I was thinking just try and add another 500 cals mixed between pro and carbs. Ive tidied up my diet recently and generally eat every 3 hours, usually getting 70g protein and 70-100 carbs when required. If its late afternoon or nighttime i usually restrict carbs as i take it theyre not needed. A general overview or any advice available would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but at 20-ish% bodyfat, the idea of increasing anything wouldn't even be a consideration for me, and I DEFINITELY wouldn't be running gear. My reasons are threefold:

1- The fact that you were already in the mid-20's bodyfat indicates you likely don't know (yet) how to diet properly to STAY lean, let along get there (which is harder). A goal of adding mass at this point will probably yield you additional bodyfat. So, if you put on 5-10lbs of muscle but wind up back at 25% bodyfat, then have to go through a massive cutting effort (and probably lose the gains in the process), is it worth it? Not in my opinion. The way to go is to get down to an appreciable bodyfat first (~12%), essentially working with a 'blank canvass', and then slowly add mass from there.

2- At 20% bodyfat, you're going to have a hard time seeing any gains in LBM you may make. This usually leads to frustration, and ultimately, quitting. Again, when you're lean, you can literally see your body changing... THIS keeps you motivated and working even harder.

3- AAS at your currently condition isn't advisable. For one, the risk of sides increases considerably at higher bodyfat percentages. I don't want to digress too far and get into why (you can look this up, related to estrogen), but just know it's a reality. Further, let's say you do make some decent gains in LBM and miraculously don't put on ANY bodyfat. You're still gonna be 20%. What then? Cut? You'll lose your gains, because you won't be eating to maintain your newly acquired mass.

For all of these reasons, I think it becomes abundantly clear that getting lean first is not only the optimal - but responsible way to go. It's your body, and ultimately you have to decide, but if you choose to continue with adding mass, I wouldn't feel comfortable advising you with regard to that effort, because I don't agree with it and wouldn't personally do it myself (and wouldn't advise people on anything I wouldn't do myself).

I hope you understand.

I'm currently on a carb cycle. I believe my calorie intake on low/no carb days is too low and is hindering my gains. I'm also experiencing fatigue, feel like I'm retaining fat instead of losing it and all of the other symptoms of not eating enough.

What makes you 'feel' like you're retaining fat? Most of us (me included) are head cases when it comes to this lifestyle. Today, I feel like a sloppy walking pile of shit, but the reality is I look better than 98% of people I encounter on a daily basis. So ultimately, we have to base changes we make on tangible results. Have you been measuring (waist, hips, legs, etc.)? How about the way your clothes fit? Have you been tracking your weight?

Don't get me wrong - you could very well be right about what's happening with your body. I just have to point out the above as people often don't consider all of this. The fact you're feeling fatigued does concern me however.

I'm currently taking in 1500 calories on my MOD days, ~2000 (upping carbs to 185g) on my refeed day (twice/month), ~1750 on HIGH day and 950 on my LOW/NO carb days. The current split I'm doing is 50p/35c/15f.

Layout is: mod mod mod low low low high

My question is, I feel as though I should be taking in at minimum 1200-1300 calories on my low days, do I just raise the protein intake as well as fat?

Ok, a few thoughts. First - 950 calories is DEFINITELY too low. I wouldn't advise anybody to drop below 1200, ever (fasting aside). Low days are offset by a high day, and to a lesser degree, moderate days, but the fact is neither of your mod-high are very 'robust'.

First - what's your primary goal? I would assume fat loss, but you mentioned "hindering gains". Realize that gains with this type of diet plan (and at your caloric intake) are somewhat unrealistic. The focus should be to maintain muscle while slowly reducing bodyfat.

What is your current BF%? Based on the link, where would you put yourself?

http://forums.steroid.com/nutrition-...men-women.html

Should I be trying a different split? I am not losing at weight each week, my lifts are intense as well as HIIT cardio/fasted cardio. I lift with my boyfriend who is on this site as well so I know my lifts are good. What do you suggest I change? Even if I switch up my ratios of 45/35/20 I still think I need to up my low calorie days.

My stats:

27 years old
5'4
144lbs

Agree 100% - start with upping your low days. Start with 1200 calories and see how you feel at that. Increase calories via fats. I mean, as it stands, you're eating roughly 16g fat on low days... that's WAY low. Even at 1200 calories/15% fats, you're only around 26g... but it's better. Definitely do that.

2 - start refeeding weekly. That should make a big difference. I would expect your worst days fall during the 'low' phase of the cycle on weeks where you didn't refeed. Btw, what do you follow when you don't refeed - moderate or low?

I think those 2 changes alone will help a great deal. Your split is fine as is. It's very obvious that calories were too low on the low days. Try this out for ~2 weeks and please follow up to let me know how you're feeling!!

Hope this helps.

[Sweetss]

What makes you 'feel' like you're retaining fat? Most of us (me included) are head cases when it comes to this lifestyle. Today, I feel like a sloppy walking pile of shit, but the reality is I look better than 98% of people I encounter on a daily basis. So ultimately, we have to base changes we make on tangible results. Have you been measuring (waist, hips, legs, etc.)? How about the way your clothes fit? Have you been tracking your weight?

Don't get me wrong - you could very well be right about what's happening with your body. I just have to point out the above as people often don't consider all of this. The fact you're feeling fatigued does concern me however.

I have been keeping measurements (don't have them in front of me) but my pants do not fit like they use to, very tight, my stomach use to be flatter and now seems to have a little "play" to it if you may. I know I'm hard on myself, but my boyfriend is real with me and wants to see me the way I want to see me, so he tells me the truth, even though it may hurt lol. He actually told me to contact you because you have helped him on many occasions.

Ok, a few thoughts. First - 950 calories is DEFINITELY too low. I wouldn't advise anybody to drop below 1200, ever (fasting aside). Low days are offset by a high day, and to a lesser degree, moderate days, but the fact is neither of your mod-high are very 'robust'.

First - what's your primary goal? I would assume fat loss, but you mentioned "hindering gains". Realize that gains with this type of diet plan (and at your caloric intake) are somewhat unrealistic. The focus should be to maintain muscle while slowly reducing bodyfat.

What is your current BF%? Based on the link, where would you put yourself?

http://forums.steroid.com/nutrition-...men-women.html

I did a bulk during the winter and I definitely put on some good muscle. I'd like to get down to 12-16% BF. I'm currently looking like 25%. By hindering gains I meant that I can't even get through my workout because I am so fatigued and it's not allowing me to lose bodyfat but like your said still retain my muscle.

Agree 100% - start with upping your low days. Start with 1200 calories and see how you feel at that. Increase calories via fats. I mean, as it stands, you're eating roughly 16g fat on low days... that's WAY low. Even at 1200 calories/15% fats, you're only around 26g... but it's better. Definitely do that.

Let's just say for instance (numbers don't pertain to me, just using them to ask a question) I am taking in 100g carbs, 150g protein and 20g fat on mod day, what would my low/no day look like? Do you keep the 150g protein and raise the 20g fat? Do you raise both your protein and fat intake on your no carb days to make up for the calorie difference of no carbs? This is where I get lost, that's why my low days are so low, because I keep protein/fat the same as the rest of the week.

2 - start refeeding weekly. That should make a big difference. I would expect your worst days fall during the 'low' phase of the cycle on weeks where you didn't refeed. Btw, what do you follow when you don't refeed - moderate or low?

I think those 2 changes alone will help a great deal. Your split is fine as is. It's very obvious that calories were too low on the low days. Try this out for ~2 weeks and please follow up to let me know how you're feeling!!

Hope this helps.

This is what my cycle looks like. On no days I'm taking in NO carbs. refeed day I do not lift which is followed by a mod day. I workout on 2 of my NO days. My off days are tues or wed and friday.

mon: mod
tues: no
wed: no
thurs: no
fri: high or refeed
sat: mod
sun: mod

Thank you for all this help. Wish there was a little cube of all nutrients you could just take and be done with it. haha

[Sweetss]

Sorry, I can't edit my post.

If I'm taking in 1800 calories on my moderate days with the 45/40/15 split, that's 200g protein/180g carbs/30g fat. Now on my NO days doing 45/0/15 split I'm just at 1,070 calories. Should I increase my fat intake to 50g, which would bring me to 1,250 calories and keep the same amount of protein, 200g?

Also what should my "refeed" day look like? 200g protein, 250g carbs, 30g of fat which would bring me to 2,070 calories, or should my fats be lower, do I always keep the protein the same no matter what type of day it is?

[gbrice75]

I have been keeping measurements (don't have them in front of me) but my pants do not fit like they use to, very tight, my stomach use to be flatter and now seems to have a little "play" to it if you may. I know I'm hard on myself, but my boyfriend is real with me and wants to see me the way I want to see me, so he tells me the truth, even though it may hurt lol. He actually told me to contact you because you have helped him on many occasions.

Ok, noted. Hmm... who is this guy... does he want to remain anonymous!? If so, thank him for me!

I did a bulk during the winter and I definitely put on some good muscle. I'd like to get down to 12-16% BF. I'm currently looking like 25%. By hindering gains I meant that I can't even get through my workout because I am so fatigued and it's not allowing me to lose bodyfat but like your said still retain my muscle.

You do realize that the lower end of your target range is getting into the competitive range for females with regard to bodyfat? Are you doing this for a reason (i.e. competition), or do you intend to maintain 12%, assuming you get there? That's very low for a female to maintain year round' ... I don't mean to take the wind out of your sail, just want to be realistic.

Gotcha on the "hindering gains" thing. No doubt some changes need to be made, based on this issue plus the numbers that simply speak for themselves.

If I'm taking in 1800 calories on my moderate days with the 45/40/15 split, that's 200g protein/180g carbs/30g fat. Now on my NO days doing 45/0/15 split I'm just at 1,070 calories. Should I increase my fat intake to 50g, which would bring me to 1,250 calories and keep the same amount of protein, 200g?

1- looking at this again, your carbs are higher than I keep mine on moderate days... just to put things in perspective. You may want to drop them down to ~120g. Increase fats to make up the difference; your fats are low to begin with.

As far as NO days are concerned, there's no hard rule. You can increase fats to the same you would in what I suggested above (on MOD days) to start. From there, it's up to you. I made up for the lost calories (via carb reduction) by eating a LOT of veggies. I may not have made up for 120g worth, but you'd be surprised about how much veggies can add up. The idea on these NO days is to ditch starchy carbs, not necessarily carbs as a whole.

If I'm taking in 1800 calories on my moderate days with the 45/40/15 split, that's 200g protein/180g carbs/30g fat. Now on my NO days doing 45/0/15 split I'm just at 1,070 calories. Should I increase my fat intake to 50g, which would bring me to 1,250 calories and keep the same amount of protein, 200g?

Also what should my "refeed" day look like? 200g protein, 250g carbs, 30g of fat which would bring me to 2,070 calories, or should my fats be lower, do I always keep the protein the same no matter what type of day it is?

Actually, I like 30g fat, and since you're used to that, it shouldn't be a big deal for you to leave this day as-is.

This is what my cycle looks like. On no days I'm taking in NO carbs. refeed day I do not lift which is followed by a mod day. I workout on 2 of my NO days. My off days are tues or wed and friday.

mon: mod
tues: no
wed: no
thurs: no
fri: high or refeed
sat: mod
sun: mod

Gotcha. Very similar schedule to mine, just different days. I also didn't lift (or do cardio) on my high day. Complete rest day - our bodies need it.

Thank you for all this help. Wish there was a little cube of all nutrients you could just take and be done with it. haha

Hah!!! Me too! I don't even mind putting the work in. What I DO wish to exist is a little cube of 'something' that would negate all the bad shit I enjoy eating, lol.

Sorry, I can't edit my post.

No worries, already taken care of for you in my reply.

[Sweetss]

You do realize that the lower end of your target range is getting into the competitive range for females with regard to bodyfat? Are you doing this for a reason (i.e. competition), or do you intend to maintain 12%, assuming you get there? That's very low for a female to maintain year round' ... I don't mean to take the wind out of your sail, just want to be realistic.

I can't expect to stay at 12% year round. I do however want to compete at some point. I think 16% is a lot more realistic, but when is it ever enough? Once you get somewhere you always want to beat that and do better/more.

1- looking at this again, your carbs are higher than I keep mine on moderate days... just to put things in perspective. You may want to drop them down to ~120g. Increase fats to make up the difference; your fats are low to begin with.

Gotcha and changed.

As far as NO days are concerned, there's no hard rule. You can increase fats to the same you would in what I suggested above (on MOD days) to start. From there, it's up to you. I made up for the lost calories (via carb reduction) by eating a LOT of veggies. I may not have made up for 120g worth, but you'd be surprised about how much veggies can add up. The idea on these NO days is to ditch starchy carbs, not necessarily carbs as a whole.

I've increased my fats on "no" days. Yup, by no carbs I mean no starchy carbs, veggies are in every meal.

Hah!!! Me too! I don't even mind putting the work in. What I DO wish to exist is a little cube of 'something' that would negate all the bad shit I enjoy eating, lol.

I don't eat bad at all, is that bad?! lol I read to have a cheat meal and my cheat meal is sushi which isn't really that bad! I don't eat cake, cookies or fast food... I have to force myself to have a cheat meal and I just feel guilty and crappy afterwards.

This is what I've come up, what do you think:

Mod: 1650 calories 200g protein/120g carbs/40g fat
Low: 1250 calories 200g protein/0g starchy carbs/50g fat
High: 1950 200g protein/220g carbs/30g fat

Again, really appreciate all of this help

[irlkev]

Cheers GB for the candid and comprehensive answer to my query. Your response is noted and will be acted on by me. I'll get back to you within a few months with an update.

[huggy008]

Hello I am 21years old
6ft 2 280-285 lbs.
18-20% bf estimate
I need help mapping out a diet to get my bf down to manageable level to be able to start cutting cycle.
Please help.

I want to do a show in about a year

[gbrice75]

I can't expect to stay at 12% year round. I do however want to compete at some point. I think 16% is a lot more realistic, but when is it ever enough? Once you get somewhere you always want to beat that and do better/more

lol, very true!

I've increased my fats on "no" days. Yup, by no carbs I mean no starchy carbs, veggies are in every meal.[/QUOTE]

Noted. Great!

I don't eat bad at all, is that bad?! lol I read to have a cheat meal and my cheat meal is sushi which isn't really that bad! I don't eat cake, cookies or fast food... I have to force myself to have a cheat meal and I just feel guilty and crappy afterwards.

Hell no!!! I *wish* I had your 'problem', lol!

This is what I've come up, what do you think:

Mod: 1650 calories 200g protein/120g carbs/40g fat
Low: 1250 calories 200g protein/0g starchy carbs/50g fat
High: 1950 200g protein/220g carbs/30g fat

Again, really appreciate all of this help

This looks great!! Just remember to start doing that high day weekly, not bi-weekly. I expect you'll start feeling better soon!

Hello I am 21years old
6ft 2 280-285 lbs.
18-20% bf estimate
I need help mapping out a diet to get my bf down to manageable level to be able to start cutting cycle.
Please help.

I want to do a show in about a year

Hey there, welcome. Your best bet is to start a new thread (your own) listing all of your stats, goals, and a proposed diet. The more info you can provide (e.g. macros, meal times, etc.) the better I and the others can help you sort things out.

When you do, please post here and link me to it so I can have a look.

[aussie made]

Gb. Follow up from last question. I'm at a 500 surplus. Around 2750. It's been a month and i still feel hungry, and I've been losing weight not putting on? Up the calories? I've lost 2 pounds. Bit more leaner. I think i must burn more during day then expected

[>Good Luck<]

Hey gb, just wanted to say I've been reading around here for a while and I want to say thanks for all the time and knowledge you give to this community. Guys like you (and many others, no doubt) really deserve recognition and thanks because without what you share here, I know I wouldnt be half as far as ive made it in my fitness journey. So for that, I thank you!

Having said that, I would really appteciate some guidance as I am about to embark on my biggest and most feared step of my transformation. I am preparing to recomp, with the intention of lowering bodyfat % without losing weight dramatically. Fyi, im an ecto by self evaluation. Started taking notice to my figure at 125lbs +/- 5'7" at age 22 and have been bulking up ever since. Pretty much 4 years of learning to eat, then learning what to eat and then eventually weights. I didnt get serious about dieting or lifting until about 2 years ago but i was lifting for about 4 years total. Recently I have reached a major goal of 175lbs and a little more fat than I should carry but it was a relief to get my goal regardless..

Currently standing at 170lbs 5'7" 15-18% bf. I work highrise construction 40+ hours weekly and lift 5 days a week. No cardio. Currently calculate my tdee at 3300cals due to acivity, but not sure if im on the right track anymore. Id like to get down to 12% at 170 so I know its time to make some serious changes.

My idea was to reduce lifting to 4 sessions and add hiit 5 mins after every session. Keep cals at 3300 and work the ratio to 30% protein 40% carb 30% fat because getting the high protein in is very hard on my digestive system and I end up skipping out on veggies because I get over stuffed

Let me know what you think, and dont be shy to tell me im out in left feild... I came to you because you know how to get what I need

Cheers, and thanks once more for your time and knowledge

> GL <

[Damienm05]

Hey GB, old buddy, old pal. I'm trying to reduce my body fat from 11-12% back down to the 6-8% range over the next 6 weeks or so. It's especially ambitious considering I still eat a good bit of carbs and cals, but I'm very active. Anyway, I eat a ton of fresh fruit, especially pre/post WO and at dinner at restaurants instead of real desserts. I remember the common wisdom back when I was really active was, "fruit is sugar, sugar hinders fat-burning." I'm hoping you've come into some knowledge since then that could justify eating lots of cherries, apples, bananas, watermelon, and pineapple because I'm all but addicted to the stuff at this point. Anyway, should I scrap the fruit and just continue doing oats/sweet potatoes/brown basmati localized around my lifting or do you think my goal is attainable simply with a cals in vs cals out approach?

[gbrice75]

Gb. Follow up from last question. I'm at a 500 surplus. Around 2750. It's been a month and i still feel hungry, and I've been losing weight not putting on? Up the calories? I've lost 2 pounds. Bit more leaner. I think i must burn more during day then expected

That's a fair assumption, lol. Are you doing any cardio? Either start eating more, decrease cardio, or a combo of both - but yes, you're clearly burning more than you're taking in.

Hey gb, just wanted to say I've been reading around here for a while and I want to say thanks for all the time and knowledge you give to this community. Guys like you (and many others, no doubt) really deserve recognition and thanks because without what you share here, I know I wouldnt be half as far as ive made it in my fitness journey. So for that, I thank you!

Cheers, thanks brother!

Having said that, I would really appteciate some guidance as I am about to embark on my biggest and most feared step of my transformation. I am preparing to recomp, with the intention of lowering bodyfat % without losing weight dramatically. Fyi, im an ecto by self evaluation. Started taking notice to my figure at 125lbs +/- 5'7" at age 22 and have been bulking up ever since. Pretty much 4 years of learning to eat, then learning what to eat and then eventually weights. I didnt get serious about dieting or lifting until about 2 years ago but i was lifting for about 4 years total. Recently I have reached a major goal of 175lbs and a little more fat than I should carry but it was a relief to get my goal regardless..

Noted

Currently standing at 170lbs 5'7" 15-18% bf. I work highrise construction 40+ hours weekly and lift 5 days a week. No cardio. Currently calculate my tdee at 3300cals due to acivity, but not sure if im on the right track anymore. Id like to get down to 12% at 170 so I know its time to make some serious changes.

My idea was to reduce lifting to 4 sessions and add hiit 5 mins after every session. Keep cals at 3300 and work the ratio to 30% protein 40% carb 30% fat because getting the high protein in is very hard on my digestive system and I end up skipping out on veggies because I get over stuffed

Are you taking any digestive enzymes? Probiotics? If not, I suggest you look into both ASAP to aid your system in digesting proteins (et al) more efficiently.

Let me know what you think, and dont be shy to tell me im out in left feild... I came to you because you know how to get what I need

Cheers, and thanks once more for your time and knowledge

> GL <

I think recomp'ing is great, pretty much what I'm doing atm. Just realize it's a slow process - much slower than either bulking or cutting. Don't expect to notice any dramatic results at any given point. This can fck one's head up... as we feed off of tangible progress. You'll need to rely heavily on the scale, measurements, and 'slight' visual changes.

You can tackle it a few different ways. Recomp'ing, IMO, *has* to be geared towards either gaining or losing. Overall, it's a recomp - but slight emphasis has to be put on one or the other depending on your primary focus. In your case, it's reducing bodyfat.

I'm not clear on why you think you should reduce your training sessions from 5 to 4 though, can you explain your reasoning behind this?

If you've been eating at 3300 cals and gaining for the most part, then that's not maintenance, that's over. If you've been holding steady for the most part, then you might be in the ballpark. In any case, once you have it dialed in, you'll definitely want to continue eating at maintenance, I'd actually suggest eating above (which you may already be doing) and adding cardio (as you suggested) to work on the bodyfat. I'd personally keep carbs focused around my workout, and maybe throw in a moderate refeed ever 2 weeks (since you'll already be at 40% daily, a weekly refeed isn't necessary by any means). I'd hold off on the refeed until you're dialed in however. This way, you know what you're doing is 'working', and you can play and tweak from there. The idea is to ultimately be very slightly under maintenance (via cardio, not calorie restriction) but feeding muscle tissue to maintain and or grow in small spurts.

I hope this helps get you started, let me know if you need clarification and/or link me when you start a new thread (I expect you will?).

Hey GB, old buddy, old pal. I'm trying to reduce my body fat from 11-12% back down to the 6-8% range over the next 6 weeks or so.

Good to see you back again brother!! Poor you... bodyfat at an all time high of 11-12%? lol!

It's especially ambitious considering I still eat a good bit of carbs and cals, but I'm very active. Anyway, I eat a ton of fresh fruit, especially pre/post WO and at dinner at restaurants instead of real desserts. I remember the common wisdom back when I was really active was, "fruit is sugar, sugar hinders fat-burning." I'm hoping you've come into some knowledge since then that could justify eating lots of cherries, apples, bananas, watermelon, and pineapple because I'm all but addicted to the stuff at this point. Anyway, should I scrap the fruit and just continue doing oats/sweet potatoes/brown basmati localized around my lifting or do you think my goal is attainable simply with a cals in vs cals out approach?

Shouldn't you be giving ME advice!?! I feel funny giving you 'advice' considering how much you helped me out early on, but I will give you my thoughts.

Ambitious is right!! 6 weeks... man, forget 6%.... maybe 8% is doable though. Funny you mention fresh fruits, because I've been falling into eating a lot of them lately as well... it's tough in the summer, so much good stuff around!

I'm not a strict 'IIFYM' and/or cals in/out person. I do support both more now than I would have a few years ago, but I'm still a firm believer that food choices, meal/macro timing, etc. do have some impact - albeit to a lesser degree than I used to believe. At least for people trying to get down to an aesthetically pleasing BF%... but that's not you, you're already there. SO...

Yea man, I think you should cut out all fruits. Hell, it's 6 weeks. Take in as little sugar as possible. Go with some berries instead of bananas and pineapple. Supplement with chromium if you already already. I would definitely keep carbs (whatever your choices may be... I'd be fine with white rice/potato these days tbh) localized around your workout window. I'm assuming you plan to do a good deal of cardio?

[Damienm05]

Good to see you back again brother!! Poor you... bodyfat at an all time high of 11-12%? lol!



Shouldn't you be giving ME advice!?! I feel funny giving you 'advice' considering how much you helped me out early on, but I will give you my thoughts.

Ambitious is right!! 6 weeks... man, forget 6%.... maybe 8% is doable though. Funny you mention fresh fruits, because I've been falling into eating a lot of them lately as well... it's tough in the summer, so much good stuff around!

I'm not a strict 'IIFYM' and/or cals in/out person. I do support both more now than I would have a few years ago, but I'm still a firm believer that food choices, meal/macro timing, etc. do have some impact - albeit to a lesser degree than I used to believe. At least for people trying to get down to an aesthetically pleasing BF%... but that's not you, you're already there. SO...

Yea man, I think you should cut out all fruits. Hell, it's 6 weeks. Take in as little sugar as possible. Go with some berries instead of bananas and pineapple. Supplement with chromium if you already already. I would definitely keep carbs (whatever your choices may be... I'd be fine with white rice/potato these days tbh) localized around your workout window. I'm assuming you plan to do a good deal of cardio?

Ha, you forget I used to be a fat noob before I discovered these boards! Regardless, with the 18 months or so that you've been living the diet guru life, while I've been withdrawn from it, surely your knowledge supersedes my own at this point.

I'm not unhappy with how I look now, but it is disappointing since you may recall a time when I maintained under 10% consistently for a year. Not that gaining a couple percentage points (I got up to around 14) would be too devastating for most people, but I play high intensity social sports several days/week, so there's really no excuse other than way, way, way overeating.

You're right. It really is a lofty goal and I either need to reduce it or just suck it up and not enjoy the sweet stuff for 6 weeks. Right now I only do 20 minutes PWO HIIT 3 days/week, but I play on two hockey teams and QB a flag football team on Sundays. The football isn't as cardio-centric as ice hockey but it's still good exercise. I imagine the sum of these activities is equivalent to at least doing PWO cardio daily.

Any evidence to suggest that maybe some other type of fasted cardio in the AM would be the way to go? I hate running after I lift anyway.

[>Good Luck<]

That's a fair assumption, lol. Are you doing any cardio? Either start eating more, decrease cardio, or a combo of both - but yes, you're clearly burning more than you're taking in.

Cheers, thanks brother!

Noted

Are you taking any digestive enzymes? Probiotics? If not, I suggest you look into both ASAP to aid your system in digesting proteins (et al) more efficiently.

I think recomp'ing is great, pretty much what I'm doing atm. Just realize it's a slow process - much slower than either bulking or cutting. Don't expect to notice any dramatic results at any given point. This can fck one's head up... as we feed off of tangible progress. You'll need to rely heavily on the scale, measurements, and 'slight' visual changes.

You can tackle it a few different ways. Recomp'ing, IMO, *has* to be geared towards either gaining or losing. Overall, it's a recomp - but slight emphasis has to be put on one or the other depending on your primary focus. In your case, it's reducing bodyfat.

I'm not clear on why you think you should reduce your training sessions from 5 to 4 though, can you explain your reasoning behind this?

If you've been eating at 3300 cals and gaining for the most part, then that's not maintenance, that's over. If you've been holding steady for the most part, then you might be in the ballpark. In any case, once you have it dialed in, you'll definitely want to continue eating at maintenance, I'd actually suggest eating above (which you may already be doing) and adding cardio (as you suggested) to work on the bodyfat. I'd personally keep carbs focused around my workout, and maybe throw in a moderate refeed ever 2 weeks (since you'll already be at 40% daily, a weekly refeed isn't necessary by any means). I'd hold off on the refeed until you're dialed in however. This way, you know what you're doing is 'working', and you can play and tweak from there. The idea is to ultimately be very slightly under maintenance (via cardio, not calorie restriction) but feeding muscle tissue to maintain and or grow in small spurts.

I hope this helps get you started, let me know if you need clarification and/or link me when you start a new thread (I expect you will?).

Thanks gb, I will definitely start a thread in the near future.

To answer your question I was thinking about reducing to 4 session weekly due to being off all aas and recovery is becoming pretty gruelling at the intensity ive been training. Its getting to be where my legs are still sore from saturday and then I want to deadlift tuesday and still muscle soreness. Hams and glutes especially. Also saturday squats are a bit rough when traps are still on fire from thursday delts and traps. I figure if im not recovering either im not getting enough food some how or im overtraining and need to have more rest.

Or am I being a wussy? LoL

[gbrice75]

Ha, you forget I used to be a fat noob before I discovered these boards! Regardless, with the 18 months or so that you've been living the diet guru life, while I've been withdrawn from it, surely your knowledge supersedes my own at this point.

Meh. lol

I'm not unhappy with how I look now, but it is disappointing since you may recall a time when I maintained under 10% consistently for a year. Not that gaining a couple percentage points (I got up to around 14) would be too devastating for most people, but I play high intensity social sports several days/week, so there's really no excuse other than way, way, way overeating.

Sounds about right!

You're right. It really is a lofty goal and I either need to reduce it or just suck it up and not enjoy the sweet stuff for 6 weeks. Right now I only do 20 minutes PWO HIIT 3 days/week, but I play on two hockey teams and QB a flag football team on Sundays. The football isn't as cardio-centric as ice hockey but it's still good exercise. I imagine the sum of these activities is equivalent to at least doing PWO cardio daily.

I would imagine so!

Any evidence to suggest that maybe some other type of fasted cardio in the AM would be the way to go? I hate running after I lift anyway.

I don't think so. I say do whatever fits your schedule/preference... the point is just DO cardio. Hate PWO cardio? Skip it. You're doing plenty anyway. Get in am fasted (or fed am HIIT style) when you can.

Seeing as it's been a week or so since your post, what have you been doing, and how have you been making out?

Thanks gb, I will definitely start a thread in the near future.

To answer your question I was thinking about reducing to 4 session weekly due to being off all aas and recovery is becoming pretty gruelling at the intensity ive been training. Its getting to be where my legs are still sore from saturday and then I want to deadlift tuesday and still muscle soreness. Hams and glutes especially. Also saturday squats are a bit rough when traps are still on fire from thursday delts and traps. I figure if im not recovering either im not getting enough food some how or im overtraining and need to have more rest.

Or am I being a wussy? LoL

No man... you can't destroy your shit if you're not recovering properly, regardless of the reason. Get more rest, or eat more, or both. If you can't for some reason, then bring the intensity down slightly. No point in blasting muscle if it's not going to have the time to recover/rebuild. IMO.

[covertking]

What would be your guide lines for an extreme ENDOmorph looking to cut, I've always had great results with high protien medium fats and lowish carb diets but im open for suggestions