Fight the Pro-Hormone Ban: The official defense site.

**Dante** · 12-18-2002, 05:28 PM

http://www.usfa.biz/

There are articles, as well as format letters.

And yes, this even affects the 'Roid-boys. If this goes, other supplements can soon come under the hammer (Protein,etc). Plus, greater scrutiny will as well be placed on the already illicit Androgens.

As also, here are some additional thoughts/ideas:

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/avantfo...78d6637ef78995

**BigMike J** · 12-18-2002, 06:00 PM

there not gonna fuck with protein. Personally i don't give a shit about that andro crap. If it does go under maybe now all you guys buying that worthless shit will finally join the darkside. MUAHAHAHAHHAHA

Good luck with your cause.

**Dante** · 12-18-2002, 06:09 PM

Take a look at other countries. Try Canada, where you can't even purchase individual amino acids. Try here, when several years ago basic vitamins came under attack.

You'll be fooling yourself if you believe that one inroad ends with one that intention. It opens the door to others. Several years from now (if not sooner) we'll all see what's left.

**Adrock** · 12-19-2002, 01:39 PM

The official defense site is pretty pathetic. It looks pretty but there isn't a whole lot of substance to it. Whoever runs it should have put more work into it before making it public. I'm sure it will gain more content in time. If the official defense site lacks so much content it makes it look like there isn't much reason not to ban prohormones.

**YellowJacket** · 12-19-2002, 02:12 PM

To threaten banning protein next isnt going to help your case. I dont think anyone here is ignorant enough to believe the government will ban protein. Then they'll have to ban an awful lot of foods, besides theres no warning label on protein telling people under 18 not to use it...why ?because protein is all natural, and isnt harmful to the body. I personally could care less if PHs are banned, Im tired of hearing this shit everywhere I go personally.

**Dante** · 12-19-2002, 02:25 PM

You're sadly mistaken if you think protein to be "safe" from government hands:

http://www.heavyweights.net/bb/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2494

And if you don't care, then don't read.

**YellowJacket** · 12-19-2002, 03:00 PM

I dont care.....and I wasnt going to reply until I read the protein bit, thats the biggest joke Ive ever read and you know it. PHs and protein arent even comparable. They'll go for things like fina, etc. But to ban protein, thats hilarious. Thats like banning multi vitamins, are those next to? That was a pathetic attempt to scare non PH users to go speak their mind, and it was also and insult to everyones intelligence.

**Dante** · 12-19-2002, 03:06 PM

You miss the entire point, and quite frankly it doesn't surprise me.

If you think that all supplements are safe, and that banning PH's ends with PH's and that alone, you're a fool. Take, again, a look at Canada. Many supplements that we consider mainstays can easily become "luxuries".

So first, your "protein is natural" argument falls on its ass. They can regulate/restrict the supplemental form, not the food form (and as the link shows, there is a perceived division between the two). Next time you hear of "Protein caused the death of so and so", wait to see who's next in line to "save us".

'They aren't even in the same league', yeah, no shit sherlock. And neither are Creatine and Steroids , but see how Creatine's treated by the media, and see how long it will last given the public light.

**YellowJacket** · 12-19-2002, 03:20 PM

Attempt to insult my intelligence with your mindless rambling and inadequate sentence structure all you want, you're attempting to "Scare" people in to speaking out to congress by threatening the ban of protein. PROTEIN...ha, that might have been one of the more ignorant statements I have seen, You should do a little more research before you compare PHs to protein powders, or compare US laws to Canada's. Canada doesnt allow guns, US does, pretty stupid to compare US gun laws and Canada's huh? Exactly, thats pretty much what you've done. PHs are under the knife for its teenage use and label claims, since when has protein been for "people over the age of 18"? Never. How many people have been harmed from protein consumption? Exactly. The government has NO reason to regulate protein as a supplement. Thats out of the question my friend and frankly a piss poor argument.

And the creatine comment was also out of place, creatine has died down in the media as of late and I havent seen it being banned either. The point is you guys are all getting desperate, and this is a lame ass attempt to get the "roid boys" to speak out against PHs abolishment.

**Dante** · 12-19-2002, 03:32 PM

What use of logic.

Yes, and guns here too come under attack, and in time that campaign could gather heat and win. But you're too daft to figure this.

Who said that Protein's dangerous. All that matters is how it's perceived.

"They have no reason", interesting, since even basic vitamins have been attacked and like the EU, could eventually be regulated.

Creatine comes up now and then, and if someone reportedly "died" or is "harmed" from it, again it will come back. Do remeber that the PH hype once died in terms of the media's awarness (along with McGuire), and here we are again with this.

**YellowJacket** · 12-19-2002, 03:39 PM

Everything in this world comes under scrutiny at some point or another. Thats how the world works my friend, everyone cant agree on everything. Because a select group of people do not like a product whether it be tires, protein or ventilated condoms doesnt mean they're going to be banned. Apparently enough people felt PHs needed to be regulated, and these people were obvious in high places so thats why this bill is brought about. You're getting much to complex on a rather simplistic issue. There are FAR worse things in this country to pick on, And I agree there are far worse things that are legal in this country that are dangerous/offensive than PHs, but to threaten regulation upon protein supplements is absurd.

There will be many more people without jobs and without hobbies if protein powder were indeed banned. Ever think of that? Theres life after pro hormones.

**Dante** · 12-19-2002, 03:46 PM

Oh, so when Ephedrine comes under attack (given how many companies sell it, housing numerous employees), they consider the loss of jobs. Twinlab, Metabolife, etc are hardly small companies and I'll travel a garner that an equal, if not a higher amount of money is spent per year on Ephedra containing supplements than protein powder.

Politicians care about their public image, and if more votes come from a sloth than from a fitness-buff, understand to which side he'll toss a smile.

What's far worse and what's not doesn't always matter. If the issue's popular, and if the politician can come as the "saviour", then this is all that matters.

So yes, I've thought of many things. You can try to wash away whatever I state by proclaming "mindless rambling", but few can truly match wits with me, and resorting to insults doesn't change this.

**YellowJacket** · 12-19-2002, 03:57 PM

Few can match wits with you! Ha....yes we should all worship you for your attempt to downgrade everyone's intelligence with your big words and long, repetitive sentences. Dont flatter yourself my friend. This isnt about self-gratification, let that shit go, you made this personal with your reply to my original post because you couldnt come up with anything else. You try WAY too hard to sound intelligent.

Correct me if Im wrong, but dont each of the companies that you mentioned sell/distribute products other than ephedrine? Exactly. There goes that argument. The point is Dante, you're wrong man, and it takes a true man to admit when he's wrong, and I dont except you to, I expect you to continue straying away from your original post and thats fine, but I dont know what else to tell you. I thought you were a bigger man than that, although I still respect you for the publicity you're giving such a ground breaking issue, but you're running in circles now. Protein is protein. It occurs naturally in our enviroment, people eat it everyday. Protein powder is as safe as eating a chicken breast. Thats that. No way can you use your "wits" to persuade people into believing that protein powder is next in line or even in line to be regulated.

**Dante** · 12-19-2002, 04:03 PM

It doesn't matter if they sell other supplements. Losing a large take of revenue from Ephedrine sales means not that a company will necessarily go out of business (depending on their product-line diversity), but that they may have to scale back on their employment.

Once again, I outwit you. Stop trying.

Many things occur "naturally" and are "safe". Again as did I state, how something's perceived is what matters, not whether or not it's truly safe. And I provided a link which did show that not everyone will view supplemental protein in the same light as food-derived protein.

This isn't about myself. I get enough gratification from just being me.

**Dante** · 12-19-2002, 04:05 PM

Also, please post this link on the BDC forum as someone told me of your petty attempt to slander. Let them see the actual debate. I want them to see me decimating your pathetic arguments.

I don't claim to know everything, if much at all. But when I logically make a point and it's met with nonsense and slander, then I'll be as cocky as I wish.

**YellowJacket** · 12-19-2002, 04:07 PM

Ha, wow you're are truly an arrogant know it all aye? If you knew half as much as you thought you did, you might go somewhere someday, instead of being hard headed, and simple minded, try paying attention and learning something that you obviously do not. I want argue with you, you can be as witty as you'd like, congrats you're witty. If you'd like to be even more intelligent and witty, you better hurry and edit your original post before everyone reads it and laughs their asses off like I did. I think your arrogance and pointless thought process, which is relfected in your posts, might have hurt your little campaign more than it's helped. You obviously do not know how to persuade people to "run with you" and help out your cause. Sorry, I could go on, but I just cant match wits with you and your obvious higher education.

**Dante** · 12-19-2002, 04:10 PM

Now I'm done. I've wasted enough time getting carried away with this. I'm not going to delete anything.

I'll leave you with this. Unfortunately, you were wrong (wish that you were right in this instance for obvious reasons):

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...threadid=76230

**Big H** · 12-19-2002, 04:10 PM

Ahhh.. Let's see. Here we have Dante, the self-proclamined intellect, who has about as much intelligence as my left testicle. Dude, stop trying to sound all "high and mighty." People like me see through your "i'll use big words COMPLETLY wrong to make a point and maybe if I confuse people I will win a fight for once, but I'll overlook the simple grammatical errors that make everyone WHO is smart know that I am a dumbass" posts and see that in actuality, you have VERY little to say.

Ban protein? Ha. That's almost as funny as reading one of your articles.

**Dante** · 12-19-2002, 04:18 PM

And you, H, are a joke. But you're young, only 18. I remember how I was when once that age and that's why I don't bother to slander you. One day Life will hand you your ass, and then you may or may not see things differently. You'll also learn that one's opinion of you truly means nothing

Actually, if the common person slanders you, you'll learn to take it as a grand compliment

**Big H** · 12-19-2002, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by Dante
And you, H, are a joke. But you're young, only 18. I remember how I was when once that age and that's why I don't bother to slander you. One day Life will hand you your ass, and then you may or may not see things differently. You'll also learn that one's opinion of you truly means nothing Actually, if the common person slanders you, you'll learn to take it as a grand compliment

True, I am young.. But, for some reason I can still see right through you, eh?

**Dante** · 12-19-2002, 04:24 PM

And it's always they among the most daft that assume themselves as accurate judges of intelligence

**Big H** · 12-19-2002, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by Dante
And it's always they among the most daft that assume themselves as accurate judges of intelligence

I am not a "that." I am a WHO. Until you learn simple syntax I will refrain from responding to your "elevated" writing.

**1Fast400** · 12-19-2002, 04:26 PM

Ban protein? Ha. That's almost as funny as reading one of your articles

Try sending egg protein to Austrailia and see what happens, guess what, it is banned.

**YellowJacket** · 12-19-2002, 04:28 PM

Oh, we're in Australia now? The USA isnt Canada, it isnt Australia, it is a country all too itself.

**Dio** · 12-19-2002, 04:35 PM

The DSHEA act was a direct response to the government's efforts to regulate VITAMINS.

**Dante** · 12-19-2002, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by Big H

I am not a "that." I am a WHO. Until you learn simple syntax I will refrain from responding to your "elevated" writing.

We've had this discussion previously, many times. I'll word things however I please, but you use this as an excuse owing due to the fact that you can't logically debate me. But again, one day perhaps you'll grow up.

**YellowJacket** · 12-19-2002, 04:39 PM

The point is...... PHs are dangerous to those who do not know what they're doing? Correct? Have we all established that?

The only apparent danger in vitamins is the storing of fat soluble vitamins that over time can lead to toxic levels. As for protein, never heard any type of warnings placed on it. Its funny how arrogant all these supplement company owners get and how they become smartasses when the money is rolling in and business is great, now that its in jeopardy, they want all the "little people" whom they've bypassed to come to their rescue. PHs will be banned, everyone get over it, this is America, you dont have a voice, your opinion means nothing to the higher powers, and if you dont like the team, leave the stadium.

As bad as I hate to say it, thats the truth.

**Dante** · 12-19-2002, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by YellowJacket
Oh, we're in Australia now? The USA isnt Canada, it isnt Australia, it is a country all too itself.

You aren't done getting your ass trounced, are you. You don't understand politics. Laws change, as do countries and what happens in other countries is indicative of what could and will happen here.

Don't ever claim to understand politics until you understand this. Read the BB.com thread that I posted a link to. You were flat-out wrong because you didn't think.

**Dio** · 12-19-2002, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by YellowJacket
PHs will be banned, everyone get over it, this is America, you dont have a voice, your opinion means nothing to the higher powers, and if you dont like the team, leave the stadium.

As bad as I hate to say it, thats the truth.

That doesn't mean we should all roll over and play dead. I assumed you would support this effort.

**Dante** · 12-19-2002, 04:42 PM

And hey, Spanky, Avant Labs was f-ed by the FDA. What current profit-motive do I have to preserve Pro-Hormones?

For one, I like using them, but secondly (and more importantly) I see how one action leads to the next.

**Dante** · 12-19-2002, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by Big H

I am not a "that." I am a WHO. Until you learn simple syntax I will refrain from responding to your "elevated" writing.

Amazing that for an "idiot" such as myself who's "all word and no thought" that my points still hold strong while yours (and YJ's) crumble.

I have no current profit-motive to start this thread. But I did out of principle and I don't mind acting arrogant in circumstances such as this. I'm trying to show how this affects more people than would it seem, but your ego gets in the way.

**YellowJacket** · 12-19-2002, 04:48 PM

Dante, Im done listening to you, you've already proved yourself ignorant my friend, I think we know who's wrong here so quit pretending. I dont claim to understand politics, but one doesnt have to understand politics to know that your idea of banning protein is totally laughable. Your philosphy bullshit wont get you far in a legit debate, Ive now forced you to resort to name calling and bashing my intelligence, and you fell in nicely and proved yourself unable to debate in a logical manner, so Im done with you.

Dio- Dont get me wrong, I dont want to see PHs get banned, Ive said 100 times that this is another goverment law to restrict rights to the people who pay their salary, but when you resort to absurd claims that protein is next, I mean come on. Common knowledge isnt always so common I suppose.

**Dio** · 12-19-2002, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by YellowJacket

Dio- Dont get me wrong, I dont want to see PHs get banned, Ive said 100 times that this is another goverment law to restrict rights to the people who pay their salary, but when you resort to absurd claims that <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a> is next, I mean come on. Common knowledge isnt always so common I suppose.

It's not that much of a stretch. The group behind the bill would like to ban ALL performance enhancing substances. Are you aware that NCAA guidelines control the amount of protein that can be in supplements provided to their athletes? Who do you think pushes for this stuff?

Check out http://www.usantidoping.org. These people are wackos and they have a strong lobby.

**Dante** · 12-19-2002, 04:58 PM

YJ, I can't actually believe you to think that you're "winning" this. And unlike you, I can use profanity and logic at the same time. You use just one, and guess which of them it is.

Oh well, I try to help. This industry is fast falling into the abyss, and people such as yourself don't listen, and don't help.

**YellowJacket** · 12-19-2002, 04:59 PM

Interesting site, but I didnt find anything other than Ephedrine limits. Could you link me to the protein regulations?

Regardless, how many of us here is a NCAA athelete? And how many people think they really test for the amount of protein they consume? Protein isnt classified as a performance enhancing drug and rightfully so.

**YellowJacket** · 12-19-2002, 05:01 PM

Dante- I do not think I am winning! I am simply debating! Quit flattering yourself! So you're winning? Haha, this is incredible, I really thought you had some sense. I do not claim to know everything, Im still learning. Maybe you should swallow your pride and do the same. We'll see who wins in the end huh? So continue to attempt to insult my intelligence, if thats all you got. You've been running in circles with your posts, I guess you should resort to name calling. Maybe I'll give you a job in a couple weeks aye?

**Dante** · 12-19-2002, 05:04 PM

Yes, this is certainly becoming of one seeking to learn:

Dante, Im done listening to you, you've already proved yourself ignorant my friend, I think we know who's wrong here so quit pretending. I dont claim to understand politics, but one doesnt have to understand politics to know that your idea of banning protein is totally laughable. Your philosphy bullshit wont get you far in a legit debate, Ive now forced you to resort to name calling and bashing my intelligence, and you fell in nicely and proved yourself unable to debate in a logical manner, so Im done with you.

You ignore all the previous points, because they actually hold (although I wish they didn't).

**Dante** · 12-19-2002, 05:08 PM

YJ, if you really wish to learn and see the connection, put an eye to this:

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/avantfo...=ST&f=1&t=1639

Note, PA System is Patrick Arnold.

**YellowJacket** · 12-19-2002, 05:11 PM

Interesting article.....

But you drop me a PM when protein powder is banned my friend, Ill be waiting.

**YellowJacket** · 12-19-2002, 05:15 PM

I think Im the only one here thinking logically. That organization could write 1,000 letters to congress to ban protein powder, its not going to happen. The line is drawn somewhere. Hell, The president of the United States uses protein after he works out, I doubt he uses One+.