Does barbell benching have its place in body building?

[yeahbuddy289]

I use to exclusively barbell bench on chest day but I injured my shoulder (outside the gym) and I have been using dumbbells for chest ever since because its easier on shoulders. But the gym I go to only has dumbbells up to 100lbs. I am able to do those pretty easy flat benching so I have been using dumbbells for inclines then doing flat barbell benching. I am manly interested in adding size to my chest and my shoulder has been tolerating it well but I dont want to injury it. Do you guys think I would see better results if I was able to dumbbell bench with more weight or is barbell benching an effective tool for building a good chest?
Current chest routine:
Incline dumbbells 3 sets- 1 feeler set then 2 drop-set sets
Flat barbell bench3 sets -1 heavy set, 2 drop-set sets
Incline flies- 3 sets, 2 are drop sets

[DrewZ]

Chest is something I've struggled to hit proper for awhile and have been tweaking my workout with a lot over the last few years.

Something suggested to me that has been working very well is to pre-exhaust chest with fly's before hitting the bench.
I prefer to hit heavy high bent over cable fly's to pre-exhaust the pecs, then go heavy dumbbell bench.
100#ers on flat bench being fairly easy, pre-exhausting with the cables fly's should make them more effective/harder.

That has been my experience and I feel like it's def working.

[Times Roman]

use what ever it is you need to be able to properly fatigue the muscle group and promote a strong growth signal

[Schwarzenegger]

I used to workout at a gym like that so we would save barbell bench for last

We would preexhaust with incline flies or cables

- then incline dumbbells 100lbs for reps
- then either incline smith machine bench or a fly press variation with dumbbells or both if we were feeling like hot shots

By the time we hit flat barbell bench as last exercise our chest would be fried and not able to lift as much, thereby saving our shoulders.

Try it out see how it works for u

[almostgone]

^ x2 on the pre exhaust. Super workout w/o stressing shoulders/RC.

[Chicagotarsier]

Chest is my genetic superior muscle. I cannot work it out properly without GVT.

10 sets of 10
60% 1RM
30-60 second rest between sets
tempo 4 seconds down, blast up, no pause at top or bottom.
When you can achieve that move up 5 pounds for the next time you do chest.

If you are familiar with 1 RM charts you know what all this translates to. I prefer longbar to dumbells because the smith machine can act as a spotter AND you can work on form and build power at lower weights...not so much at higher.

[yeahbuddy289]

I dont know what to do guys... as im typing this im icing my shoulder and staying home from the gym. My shoulder pain has been pretty bad. How am I suppose to work chest guys? Benching seems like its getting to hard on my shoulders but the dumbbells at my gym dont go heavy enough. I could pre exhaust my chest then barbell bench but even benching in the low 200's would still be enough weight to mess my shoulder up.

[spywizard]

stop doing flat bench for sure, even a 33 degree angle will help protect the shoulder..

also,

congrats, you should enter into a 8 week "legs" centric workout routine, giving the chest/shoulder a much needed rest..

best advice i've gotten from a doc (asian accent) if it hurt you no do that no mooooore

[yeahbuddy289]

Maybe I can get the gym to buy larger dumbbells lol there aren't many gyms close to me so I'm pretty much screwed and I have to bench if I want to really work my chest

[almostgone]

Try preexhausting with flies before you bench. As Spy posted, incline bench should give you a little relief...and it may be time to give upper body a break and focus on legs or perhaps a lagging body part??? If you don't get some relief fairly soon, you may want go check in with your Dr.

[600@50]

If you have pain while doing BB bench try switching to DB to give your shoulders a break. You can also pronate and supinate the DBs to minimize pain. Use this time to rehab / prehab the rotator cuff with some bands or light DBs.

Always ice your shoulders after your workout. Invest in one of those form fitted wraps with velcro straps to keep it snug.

[yeahbuddy289]

I was doing all db bench but I out grew the dumbbells that my gym has and the only way I could get the amount of weight need to work my chest was to barbell bench

[davesah1]

Why not try decline BB bench since your are doing incline? Many over look this very underrated exercise. IMO the decline position minimizes shoulder involvement and maximizes pectoral involvement. Flat utilizes front delts and incline even more so.

[Beethoven]

If you have pain while doing BB bench try switching to DB to give your shoulders a break. You can also pronate and supinate the DBs to minimize pain. Use this time to rehab / prehab the rotator cuff with some bands or light DBs.

Always ice your shoulders after your workout. Invest in one of those form fitted wraps with velcro straps to keep it snug.

I have a slap tear in my shoulder. Barbell bench used to aggregate it so I switched to db's, grip slightly neutral for a few months. My shoulder healed nicely.

[Darkness]

Decline is the way to go. Its in perfect kinematic with the motion of the pec and away from shoulder injuries. I only do bench these days once in a while just to gauge where my "bench #'s" are at. Dorian Yates advice.

[Brewster]

Decline is the way to go. Its in perfect kinematic with the motion of the pec and away from shoulder injuries. I only do bench these days once in a while just to gauge where my "bench #'s" are at. Dorian Yates advice.

A much better option for building the chest is the low incline bench press with the bench set at no higher than 30 degrees.
This reduces the injury risk and hits the pecs far more effectively; especially the upper pecs, which most people are lacking. I would recommend using a 15-30 degree angle over flat bench presses in most cases. Former six time Mr. Olympia, Dorian Yates used this as his staple chest building exercise and it would be hard to argue with his results.
Again, use a somewhat narrower grip (around shoulder width or a hair wider). If you have access to a neutral grip or angled grip bar I’d recommend using it as that can make the exercise even less stressful on the shoulders.
To keep the tension on the pecs and off of the joints and connective tissue you can stop the bar 2-3 inches off your chest.

I read this article above about a year ago when I was getting shoulder pain from bench press. I stopped doing bench for months and when I went back to it after a few months. I was Stronger

[davesah1]

Decline is the way to go. Its in perfect kinematic with the motion of the pec and away from shoulder injuries. I only do bench these days once in a while just to gauge where my "bench #'s" are at. Dorian Yates advice.

Yup, decline is purely chest work, probably why I'm stronger at that compared to flat and incline.

[Docd187123]

Yup, decline is purely chest work, probably why I'm stronger at that compared to flat and incline.

You're stronger in decline bench than flat or incline bc it artificially limits your ROM when compared to flat or incline.

[davesah1]

You're stronger in decline bench than flat or incline bc it artificially limits your ROM when compared to flat or incline.

Well, makes for a good pre-exhaust then, thus avoiding going super heavy on flat and protecting those precious shoulders.

[Docd187123]

Well, makes for a good pre-exhaust then, thus avoiding going super heavy on flat and protecting those precious shoulders.

In my opinion and experience decline bench press is a worthless lift. I personally choose more effective lifts to do and never do declines bench. To each their own though, if you like it, do it lol

[austinite]

Drop the bars, pick up the dumbbells. Haven't touched a bar in years.

[Docd187123]

Drop the bars, pick up the dumbbells. Haven't touched a bar in years.

They don't let you use dumbbells in powerlifting

[austinite]

They don't let you use dumbbells in powerlifting

Powerlifting is for fat people.

hahahahahahahahahaha.

Austinite 1
DocD 0

[kelkel]

In my opinion and experience decline bench press is a worthless lift. I personally choose more effective lifts to do and never do declines bench. To each their own though, if you like it, do it lol

Totally agree.

Haven't touched a bar in years.

Ummm, aren't there bars in strip clubs?

[austinite]

Ummm, aren't there bars in strip clubs?

Ha.

Kelkel 1

[davesah1]

Drop the bars, pick up the dumbbells. Haven't touched a bar in years.

See the issue with DB's is that you have to move them lmao

[davesah1]

In my opinion and experience decline bench press is a worthless lift. I personally choose more effective lifts to do and never do declines bench. To each their own though, if you like it, do it lol

I do like it, gave me a really nice chest over the years. The missed part of ROM is for the outer pec right? which can be exhausted with full ROM flyes.

[Docd187123]

I do like it, gave me a really nice chest over the years. The missed part of ROM is for the outer pec right? which can be exhausted with full ROM flyes.

Not quite. You're hinting more towards primary and secondary movers and which muscles get activated or used during the lift. I'm talking specifically about range of motion. Think of the decline bench press as a half squat...you're basically limiting the actual bar path travel bc of the decline. The following is a quote by Mark a rippetoe which explains it much better than I can:

The decline press is a rather useless exercise because the angle of the body in the decline position shortens the distance the bar can travel, decreasing the amount of work done in respect to the distance the load moves. This has the effect of increasing the weight that can be used in the exercise by decreasing its difficulty. This leads to inflated perceptions of one’s ability, and is essentially masturbation, much like that which is possible with a 30 degree leg press or a half-squat. It gets recommended for its effects on the “lower pecs”; dips perform this function much more effectively, which at the same involving more muscle mass, more balance and coordination, and more nervous system activity… Declines are dangerous because if their point of contact on the lower sternum gets missed, the next stop is the throat. Couple this with heavy weight and a lousy spotter, and you might have a really bad “chest” workout.

Again, if you like the lift you shouldn't let anyone talk you out of it especially if you're still making progress. My point is basically that you should optimize your time in the gym and can do so by choosing other lifts IMO. As stated in the quote, dips are an excellent movement that targets "lower pecs" and you're not limiting ROM (unless you do half dips or something) while allowing the use of more muscles to perform the lift. Also my goals lean to strength as I want to compete in powerlifting whereas your goals may be vastly different than mine. Whatever you do, be safe and keep busting ass in the gym

[Docd187123]

Powerlifting is for fat people.

hahahahahahahahahaha.

Austinite 1
DocD 0

Doc: 6,873,234,087
Austin: -6.325

^^^^which means all the tabouleh goes to me

[Docd187123]

Totally agree.



Ummm, aren't there bars in strip clubs?

Love ya Kel, I don't care what Austin says about you every time you step away from the party

[austinite]

Get a room!

[Docd187123]

Get a room!

You're not invited unless you bring some Texas bbq!!!!

[SEOINAGE]

What you need to do is get your form right on the bench. If that means you are having issues with scapula retraction or other shoulder problems because of how the stabilizers fire improperly then you might need physical therapy to get it right. I ended up with a shoulder impingement from doing primarily all dumbell crap. Once I got the shoulder fixed through therapy, and kept up with support exercises I started using barbells again, never should have not used them. You can build a massive chest with barbells. I don't even have dumbells, haven't used one in years, you can see my chest if you like, decently large.

[davesah1]

Not quite. You're hinting more towards primary and secondary movers and which muscles get activated or used during the lift. I'm talking specifically about range of motion. Think of the decline bench press as a half squat...you're basically limiting the actual bar path travel bc of the decline. The following is a quote by Mark a rippetoe which explains it much better than I can:




Again, if you like the lift you shouldn't let anyone talk you out of it especially if you're still making progress. My point is basically that you should optimize your time in the gym and can do so by choosing other lifts IMO. As stated in the quote, dips are an excellent movement that targets "lower pecs" and you're not limiting ROM (unless you do half dips or something) while allowing the use of more muscles to perform the lift. Also my goals lean to strength as I want to compete in powerlifting whereas your goals may be vastly different than mine. Whatever you do, be safe and keep busting ass in the gym

I'm going to go nerd right now and pull the Force=Mass x Acceleration formula out of my ass.
Acceleration is distance/sec and we'll call mass weight in this instance.
Less R.O.M. = less distance which = less force
So add more mass (weight) and we can come to a similar output of force used.
But working out isn't physics, its actually 10 times more complicated lol.
Nice post tho, good read!
I'm still going to keep doing them just because heavy flat bench is painful on my shoulder joints and so are dips.
Genetically, I was given a chest so I needn't worry too much.

Yeah my goals are solely tailored towards being large lol. I was never into powerlifting, the whole excessive rest and heavy weight and less pumps just turned me off. Oh and you only get to move heavy weight around in the gym, you get to look like you can all day.
But I am seeing more and more powerlifters looking good. Never liked most of those blobs on worlds strongest man moving around trains and planes

[kelkel]

What you need to do is get your form right on the bench. If that means you are having issues with scapula retraction or other shoulder problems because of how the stabilizers fire improperly then you might need physical therapy to get it right. I ended up with a shoulder impingement from doing primarily all dumbell crap. Once I got the shoulder fixed through therapy, and kept up with support exercises I started using barbells again, never should have not used them. You can build a massive chest with barbells. I don't even have dumbells, haven't used one in years, you can see my chest if you like, decently large.

Looking good Seoinage!

[Docd187123]

What you need to do is get your form right on the bench. If that means you are having issues with scapula retraction or other shoulder problems because of how the stabilizers fire improperly then you might need physical therapy to get it right. I ended up with a shoulder impingement from doing primarily all dumbell crap. Once I got the shoulder fixed through therapy, and kept up with support exercises I started using barbells again, never should have not used them. You can build a massive chest with barbells. I don't even have dumbells, haven't used one in years, you can see my chest if you like, decently large.

Damn bro, you're looking great!

[Docd187123]

I'm going to go nerd right now and pull the Force=Mass x Acceleration formula out of my ass.
Acceleration is distance/sec and we'll call mass weight in this instance.
Less R.O.M. = less distance which = less force
So add more mass (weight) and we can come to a similar output of force used.
But working out isn't physics, its actually 10 times more complicated lol.
Nice post tho, good read!
I'm still going to keep doing them just because heavy flat bench is painful on my shoulder joints and so are dips.
Genetically, I was given a chest so I needn't worry too much.

Yeah my goals are solely tailored towards being large lol. I was never into powerlifting, the whole excessive rest and heavy weight and less pumps just turned me off. Oh and you only get to move heavy weight around in the gym, you get to look like you can all day.
But I am seeing more and more powerlifters looking good. Never liked most of those blobs on worlds strongest man moving around trains and planes

As I said, you must do what works for you. If it stops working, think about what I said and try some changes. And yes, more weight can somewhat balance the formula BUT you're limiting your ROM unnecessarily which means less muscle mass is being worked overall. One tip that's helped keep my shoulders healthy wih flat benching....try to progress your overhead press at around the same rate as your flat bench (if you still do flat bench). Even inclines will help a bit. Warm up your rotator cuffs properly, maybe do some light work on the rowing machine to get a good dynamic stretch and blood flow, do static stretching after lifting, and look into voodoo floss (it has saved my knees, elbows, shoulders, and ankles).

Not all powerlifters are fat like you state lol. Post 29 in this thread is just one example. That's Dan Green who is DOMINATING the 220lb weight class and has a 2200lb total I beleive. Even during contest prep he maintains an impressive physique. The guy is a straight up beast.

I'm battling a few injuries myself currently so since I can't lift heavy I decided to slim down and cut some of my fat. Mind you physique isn't my goal nor is size (I'd like to compete in either the 82.5kg/181.5lbs or the 90kg/198lbs weight classes) but since cutting about 10lbs I'm sitting at a pretty lean ~188lbs right now. I get pumps in the gym, not that I train for them, my physique isn't earth shattering but I do enjoy the compliments lol, and so on.

I'm a firm believer in strength driving size. A smart lifter will concentrate on all aspects not just one. Not putting your methodology down or your goals just saying don't forget to constantly try to add more weight on the bar even if your goal is to be large and in charge hahahaha. Our goals may differ but I will respect anybody who busts their ass day in day out in the gym and has the "I'll never quit mentality". Good luck with your goals brother, dont ever settle for anything less than you want

[Rusty11]

What you need to do is get your form right on the bench. If that means you are having issues with scapula retraction or other shoulder problems because of how the stabilizers fire improperly then you might need physical therapy to get it right. I ended up with a shoulder impingement from doing primarily all dumbell crap. Once I got the shoulder fixed through therapy, and kept up with support exercises I started using barbells again, never should have not used them. You can build a massive chest with barbells. I don't even have dumbells, haven't used one in years, you can see my chest if you like, decently large.

Nice!

[davesah1]

What you need to do is get your form right on the bench. If that means you are having issues with scapula retraction or other shoulder problems because of how the stabilizers fire improperly then you might need physical therapy to get it right. I ended up with a shoulder impingement from doing primarily all dumbell crap. Once I got the shoulder fixed through therapy, and kept up with support exercises I started using barbells again, never should have not used them. You can build a massive chest with barbells. I don't even have dumbells, haven't used one in years, you can see my chest if you like, decently large.

I know what you mean man, its literally an issue for me. The best I can do for form improvement preventing shoulder pain is lower the bar below the nips on the flat bench. Its been a bitch for years dude. I'm not a fan of DB's either bc of the whole grabbing them and moving them. Much less annoying and satisfying stacking 45's. I'm trying TB500 now and since my shoulder pain is on and off for the most part I have high hopes. Will be logging it.

[Docd187123]

I know what you mean man, its literally an issue for me. The best I can do for form improvement preventing shoulder pain is lower the bar below the nips on the flat bench. Its been a bitch for years dude. I'm not a fan of DB's either bc of the whole grabbing them and moving them. Much less annoying and satisfying stacking 45's. I'm trying TB500 now and since my shoulder pain is on and off for the most part I have high hopes. Will be logging it.

I too lower the bar just below my nipples otherwise I aggravate my elbow tendinitis and shoulders. Nothing wrong with that Davesa. Everyone's form will be different due to differences in anthropometry but good form will have similar characteristics all the way around....not exactly the same for everyone but very similar.

Good luck with the TB500. I know a few ppl who swear by the stuff.