'Official Postwhore Thread'

[Ernst]

Yeah, it's been raining for a few days. Nothing heavy.

[Reed]

I don't understand you kids why not run an oral or prop up to PCT. its stupid otherwise. Why wait for the androgens to clear being shut down and everything that goes with waiting till pct. I sure workouts are great during this time haha

[Ernst]

I am running dbol up to pct.

[Reed]

Oh btw I love my tren insomnia. NOTT!!

[Reed]

I am running dbol up to pct.

take notes fuzz

[peachfuzz]

tribulis definately increases my libido. try some nettle root as well.

[Ernst]

tribulis definately increases my libido. try some nettle root as well.

Thanks, I'll look into that.

[peachfuzz]

take notes fuzz

im running var smart guy. but it aint helping much.

also plan on trying some clen and using it post cycle.

[Ernst]

Oh btw I love my tren insomnia. NOTT!!

I'm plotting tren for next cycle....

[peachfuzz]

i love the fact that i drank last night and didnt go to the gym today or friday. im tired but not sleepy. i want to go to the gym but then i know my whole day will be screwed tomorrow and ill be up untill 3 or 4. no bueno.

[Reed]

im running var smart guy. but it aint helping much.

also plan on trying some clen and using it post cycle.

Cause var is for girls Mr. Va Jay Jay.

And what are you exactly hoping with clen post cycle. anti catabolic effects or just wanting to murder as many heart cells as possible.

Quit being a pu$$y and run you some slin pct

[Ernst]

What dose of var was it again, peaches?

[Reed]

I'm plotting tren for next cycle....

Well its day 10 and I was sick for the past 4-5 days but when I go to the gym pumps are nasty nasty. Never in my life. My physique is already changing

[peachfuzz]

Cause var is for girls Mr. Va Jay Jay.

And what are you exactly hoping with clen post cycle. anti catabolic effects or just wanting to murder as many heart cells as possible.

Quit being a pu$$y and run you some slin pct

lower cortisol levels and help minimize fat gain while keeping my calories high. not running a high dose. and dont give me that heart cell death you women. all drugs have sides. we know that. mr slin user. what are you hoping for? hypoglycemia? a coma? or to become dependent upon insulin ?

take notes son.

What dose of var was it again, peaches?

currently 60mg

[Ernst]

I'm actually thinking about tren e @400mg for 10 weeks. I hate needles, but have a high tolerance for sides. Though I would someday like to do a prop/ace/masteron stack.

[Reed]

lower cortisol levels and help minimize fat gain while keeping my calories high. not running a high dose. and dont give me that heart cell death you women. all drugs have sides. we know that. mr slin user. what are you hoping for? hypoglycemia? a coma? or to become dependent upon insulin ?

take notes son.




currently 60mg

NO no fuzz this is where you are wrong sorry. I have done my research. How many research pubmed articles would you like on how clen DOES kill off heart cells and the muscle replaces them w/ scar tissue. AND then go find me articles AND research that proves using slin will make you dependent cause you won't. I hope for significant recovery on slin. Sorry I actually eat right with good foods so I'm not one of those idiots that as ever gone hypo on slin and a coma please....

And for your research needs

Conn Med. 2007 Feb;71(2):89-91.
Links
Clenbuterol toxicity: an emerging epidemic. A case report and review.
Bilkoo P, Thomas J, Riddle CD, Kagaoan G.

University of Connecticut, Hoffman Heart Institute, St. Francis Hospital and Medical Center, Hartford, USA.

A 55-year-old Hispanic male found unresponsive at home was brought to our emergency department. The patient was found to have rapid atrial fibrillation and acute inferior ST-elevation myocardial infarction on electrocardiogram. Cardiac catheterization failed to reveal any significant stenotic lesions in the coronary arteries. Initial laboratory studies revealed leukocytosis, hypokalemia, hyperglycemia, an anion-gap metabolic acidosis, as well as an osmolal-gap. Initial toxicology screen was negative. The patient was admitted to the Cardiac Intensive Care Unit. After 24 hours of appropriate medical management the clinical picture had improved. Further blood analysis revealed the presence of clenbuterol. Clenbuterol is a long-acting B-2 agonist used in veterinary medicine. Several patients in the Northeast have recently presented with a similar constellation of symptoms attributed to use of heroin adulterated with clenbuterol.

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

Myocardial infarction in a 17-year-old body builder using clenbuterol.
Kierzkowska B, Stańczyk J, Kasprzak JD.

Department of Paediatric Cardiology, Institute of Paediatrics, Medical University Łodź, Poland.

A case of non-Q myocardial infarction in a previously healthy 17-year-old body builder, who used clenbuterol, a long-acting beta(2) adrenergic agonist with anabolic and lipolytic effects, is reported. Only 1 case report of myocardial infarction associated with the use of clenbuterol was found in a literature review and that case was, however, associated with anabolic steroid use . This is the first case report to describe myocardial infarction in a young male body builder only taking clenbuterol.

Clenbuterol and anabolic steroids : a previously unreported cause of myocardial infarction with normal coronary arteriograms.
Goldstein DR, Dobbs T, Krull B, Plumb VJ.

Department of Medicine, University of Alabama at Birmingham 35294-0007, USA.

During the last 10 years, several cases of myocardial infarction associated with anabolic steroid use have been reported. Postulated mechanisms to explain this association have included changes in lipid levels, the fibrinolytic system, and platelet aggregation. Clenbuterol is a beta 2-agonist with anabolic properties that has not been seen previously with myocardial infarction. We report a case of myocardial infarction in an otherwise healthy 26-year-old body-builder who recently used clenbuterol and anabolic steroids . In this case, synergistic effects of the two agents seem likely to have played a role in the infarct. The normal coronary arteriograms before any anticoagulant or thrombolytic therapy strongly suggest coronary spasm as the mechanism of the infarct.


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http://ndt.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/16/1/163

FREE FULL TEXT

End-stage renal disease in a bodybuilder: a multifactorial process or simply doping?
Hartung R, Gerth J, Fünfstück R, Gröne HJ, Stein G.

Department of Internal Medicine IV, Friedrich-Schiller-University of Jena, Germany.

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1: Aust N Z J Med. 1993 Dec;23(6):713.
Links
Myocardial infarction and cerebral haemorrhage in a young body builder taking anabolic steroids.
Kennedy MC, Corrigan AB, Pilbeam ST.

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3...tem2.PEntrez.P ubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pu bmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&l ogdbfrom=pubmed

Acute myocardial infarction in a 22-year-old world class weight lifter using anabolic steroids.
McNutt RA, Ferenchick GS, Kirlin PC, Hamlin NJ.

Department of Medicine, Michigan State University, East Lansing 48824.


HOW many more would you like me to pull up???

And a good solid article:

Clenbuterol is a beta-2 adrenal agonist drug, which means it has a structure similar to the natural catecholamine hormones in the body, such as epinephrine. The primary medical uses for clenbuterol are for treatment of asthma and other respiratory diseases. Clenbuterol assists in respiration because, like epinephrine, it promotes dilation of the bronchial tubes in the lungs. Asthma is characterized by constriction and inflammation of the bronchial tubes.

Clenbuterol, however, has never been approved for sale in the United States for use by people. Drug companies are most interested in profit, and clenbuterol offers no particular medical advantages over existing beta-2 asthma drugs. Clenbuterol does have notable disadvantages, however. It has a long half-life, remaining active in the body for up to 36 hours. While that sounds good, it also increases the likelihood of serious side effects, thus making it less attractive to litigation-wary pharmaceutical companies. In contrast, the body degrades and eliminates the current leading beta-2 agonist drug sold in the U.S. after only about six hours.

Clenbuterol is sold in other countries, chiefly by Mexican pharmacies, under various trade names, such as Clenasma, Spiropent and the veterinary injectable Ventipulmin. It first attracted the attention of bodybuilders years ago after animal research showed that it offered potent repartitioning effects—it appeared to decrease bodyfat while simultaneously fostering increased muscle size, particularly in the type 2 fast-twitch fibers, the fibers most amenable to hypertrophy from weight training.

Those animal studies, however, typically used dosages in the one-to-five-milligram-per-kilogram-of-bodyweight range. That amounts to a daily dose of 450 milligrams of clenbuterol in a 200-pound athlete. For human use clenbuterol comes in microgram amounts. One thousand micrograms equal one milligram.

Despite those discrepancies, clenbuterol quickly earned a reputation as an anabolic and “cutting” drug, favored in precontest cycles, and athletes who tried it soon discovered two things: 1) Its effects didn’t last more than three to four weeks, since beta-adrenergic receptors are extremely sensitive and turn off, or downregulate, rapidly; and 2) it provided no discernible anabolic effect. It did, however, provide a potent thermogenic effect conducive to fat oxidation. You could tell the thermogenic properties were working by the perception of increased body heat.

The most common suggested clenbuterol dosage was one to two tablets a day, gradually increasing to eight to 10 per day. To extend its therapeutic potency and blunt down-regulation of beta-adrenergic receptors, users were advised to take the drug on a two-days-on/one-day-off cycle; however, it was never proven scientifically that the off-and-on cycle offered any real advantages.

The same holds true for another drug, ketotifen, said to help maintain the potency of beta receptors. Whatever benefits ketotifen confer on open beta receptors come at a price. Ketotifen is an antihistamine, which can cause acute drowsiness—not exactly conducive to intense training. What of side effects? Taking too much clenbuterol has the same effect as a flood of epinephrine in your body. Symptoms include increased blood pressure, possible heart-rhythm disturbances, muscle tremor and insomnia. In Europe clenbuterol was used in meat processing, and some who ate the drug-laden beef experienced the same side effects.

More recent animal studies—again using far higher doses than would ever be ingested by humans—showed that clenbuterol decreases endurance by degrading the heart structure. Indeed, some of the research animals died from heart failure. A recent study that examined the heart and skeletal muscles of rats given clenbuterol identified direct toxic effects from the drug.1 What’s particularly interesting about that study is that the bad effects resulted from just a single dose of injectable clenbuterol—a form favored by some bodybuilders and other athletes.

The results showed that clenbuterol didn’t just harm heart-muscle cells but actually killed them. Heart-muscle-cell loss led to increased collagen deposition. In effect, active heart cells were replaced by scar tissue, setting the stage for sudden heart failure.

Several theories explain clenbuterol’s adverse effects. The first involves the fact that clenbuterol depletes the amino acid taurine in the heart; taurine has protective properties, such as modulating the calcium levels that keep heart rhythm stable. Clenbuterol may also increase norepinephrine-induced stimulation of the heart, which can damage the heart if excessive.

You may reason that the research animals got megadoses of clenbuterol and that the lesser doses athletes use wouldn’t have the same effects—but that’s just wishful thinking. According to something called Kleiber’s law, the animal dose of clenbuterol is equal to a human dose of five to six tablets. So the same side effects could be expected. In addition, because of the extended time that clenbuterol takes to degrade in the body, it could build up and have cumulative effects.

The findings of heart damage from clenbuterol could partly explain the mysterious deaths of a few bodybuilders who combined clen with anabolic steroids. That is, of course, pure speculation. Athletes who use clenbuterol should ensure that they also supplement taurine, which may offer some heart protection.

Other studies send further grim news about clenbuterol.2,3 When it was given to pigs, the portion of the testes that synthesizes testosterone (Leydig cells) increased in size, suggesting increased testosterone production. But the testes cells where sperm is manufactured (Sertoli cells) were permanently damaged. That implies that clenbuterol may adversely affect fertility.

The increase in the cells that secrete testosterone isn’t that surprising. Natural catecholamines like epinephrine, for which clenbuterol serves as a synthetic substitute to some degree, are known to promote testosterone synthesis. Short-term stress, characterized by increased catecholamine release into the blood, leads to upgraded testosterone. But if the stress persists, other stress hormones, such as cortisol, are released and reverse that effect—that is, decrease testosterone synthesis and release.

Sorry fuzz SMART pros have found only less harmful drugs to run for such purposes of cutting fat etc. Look into Albuterol or even the 176-191 GH frag pep works real well if your diet, training, and physique is on point. Yes drugs have side but killing heart cells I'll look for something else

Now go find me research on slin and the evidence on how I will become dependent cause you won't Just looking out for ya little man.

[Reed]

Its the rise and fall of clen my friends. No more

[Ernst]

Never used clen . No intent of doing so.

[peachfuzz]

allright as*hole

you win.

no you didnt teach me anything new. i was never arguing anything you just posted. you did just however, talk me out of using clen as those were my worries to begin with.

you are a dick. i already have the stuff too.

what about some ephedra for the reasons listed above?

[Reed]

Trust me ernst don't. not a smart choice whatsoever. I go over to ukiron and unlike other boards with real smart guys that beat around the bush you have people that will tell you straight up the facts. Some really smart folks over there. This place use to be great for knowledge, still is, but its more about the lounge and kids doing there first cycle.

[Ernst]

Sell it to the fat kid at the gym you don't like peaches! Oh, wait, you have a conscience, huh?

[Reed]

allright as*hole

you win.

no you didnt teach me anything new. i was never arguing anything you just posted. you did just however, talk me out of using clen as those were my worries to begin with.

you are a dick. i already have the stuff too.

what about some ephedra for the reasons listed above?

ME 3
You 1

haha

Seriously fuzz even the steroids play a toll on your heart but not like that, not like that. I'm supplementing the hell out some taurine and coq10 to keep the heart as good as possible. You gotta be in it for the long run and try to keep your body as healthy as possible

I'm sure the ephedra would not be as harmful as clen but I will look it up for you, right now in fact.

brb

[Reed]

Sell it to the fat kid at the gym you don't like peaches! Oh, wait, you have a conscience, huh?

do it, get your money back haha

[Ernst]

Trust me ernst don't. not a smart choice whatsoever. I go over to ukiron and unlike other boards with real smart guys that beat around the bush you have people that will tell you straight up the facts. Some really smart folks over there. This place use to be great for knowledge, still is, but its more about the lounge and kids doing there first cycle.

I barely go to the Q&A. It irritates me for the most part.

[Ernst]

Before I even signed up I was lurking here for months... I still had much to learn. I suppose I still do. I used to follow Perfectbeast's log religiously.

[peachfuzz]

heres the deal tho reed.

if you want to get into into pulling up studies on drug side effects. i could talk every person out of using aspirin or tylenol. or how about tamoxifen . do i need to get started on that? i agree there are smarter choices then clen but im also aware there are risks involved in this lifestyle. i believe less risks then the lifestyle of smoking, chewing, drinking and other rec drugs my peers choose. if one thing doesnt kill us, something else will. im not saying that is an excuse to be careless but come on.

[peachfuzz]

do it, get your money back haha

you know where its from reed. not exactly something i can return. and ill pass on drug dealing.

stupid conscience.

[peachfuzz]

yes reed. ephedra can cause myocardial necrosis.

[Reed]

Before I even signed up I was lurking here for months... I still had much to learn. I suppose I still do. I used to follow Perfectbeast's log religiously.

Me too. My first two years of training I would lurk in and out and decided not to use steroids as all the newbies were just like me small and weak. Like I always said why ya wanna be weak and juiced up??

heres the deal tho reed.

if you want to get into into pulling up studies on drug side effects. i could talk every person out of using aspirin or tylenol. or how about tamoxifen. do i need to get started on that? i agree there are smarter choices then clen but im also aware there are risks involved in this lifestyle. i believe less risks then the lifestyle of smoking, chewing, drinking and other rec drugs my peers choose. if one thing doesnt kill us, something else will. im not saying that is an excuse to be careless but come on.

Your 100% right fuzz and its also your choice as well. Just filling you in from what I have been reading from some super super smart folks that have a few national level guys and Ifbb pros that use this info to their advantage. I'm sure a cycle of clen would not take a major toll but in essence I still will not use it as there are better choices.

Like after doing all this I hate the fact I did prohormones before.. Why, well one they were pretty much steroids (some where, others were just DHEA or some shit on a stick haha) and had absolutely no research behind them, I was a guniea pig. There is a reason why test is involved and usually a good first run. Its the hormone your body works off of and how many articles on that stuff could we find, good, supportive ones too. In the end I'm not trying to prove you wrong and yeah I was an ass but as are you and we both know we friends so we can take each others shit sometimes. I am in fact trying my damnedest to achieve I world class level physique and spend hours and hours on these boards pulling up as much info as I can in order to succeed and I'll relay it to my friends so count it as a benefit not a loss

Me 2
you 1 haha

[Ernst]

Why are you so bent on weight loss drugs anyway? I can't really see what clen (or any other fat-loss drug for that matter) will do for me that I can't do for myself with clean diet and cardio.

[Reed]

yes reed. ephedra can cause myocardial necrosis.

yes it can but it is also exaggerated as is the oral scare. the clen research is not. think about it for a second. albuterol baby albuterol. or the gh frag not the 177 but the 176. the guys that actually are dedicated have good results with this and I'll probably be including it in my contest prep routine in order to eat more carbs as I bring myself on down

[Ernst]

The oral scare? You mean the ridiculous idea that going over 4 weeks of dbol is gonna toast your innards?

[Ernst]

Every frat boy in America would be dead if the liver was that weak.

[peachfuzz]

Why are you so bent on weight loss drugs anyway? I can't really see what clen (or any other fat-loss drug for that matter) will do for me that I can't do for myself with clean diet and cardio.

yes it can but it is also exaggerated as is the oral scare. the clen research is not. think about it for a second. albuterol baby albuterol. or the gh frag not the 177 but the 176. the guys that actually are dedicated have good results with this and I'll probably be including it in my contest prep routine in order to eat more carbs as I bring myself on down

again im not looking for weight loss. im looking for something that will help control rampant cortisol levels post cycle as well as being able to keep my calories where they are without putting on much fat in post cycle.

weird i can only see the bolded part untill i quote your message.

[Ernst]

DHEA supposedly can help with the post-cycle cortisol levels.... you might look into that. I haven't done enough research myself to recommend it.

[Reed]

The oral scare? You mean the ridiculous idea that going over 4 weeks of dbol is gonna toast your innards?

a good little read from a really smart guy that I will be paying to help me diet down

Hepatoxicty: Fact or Fiction?

[peachfuzz]

Your 100% right fuzz and its also your choice as well. Just filling you in from what I have been reading from some super super smart folks that have a few national level guys and Ifbb pros that use this info to their advantage.

appreciate it

I'm sure a cycle of clen would not take a major toll but in essence I still will not use it as there are better choices.

duly noted. already decided im not gonna use it. i was to thrilled about the idea anyway

Like after doing all this I hate the fact I did prohormones before.. Why, well one they were pretty much steroids (some where, others were just DHEA or some shit on a stick haha) and had absolutely no research behind them, I was a guniea pig. There is a reason why test is involved and usually a good first run. Its the hormone your body works off of and how many articles on that stuff could we find, good, supportive ones too.

agreed

In the end I'm not trying to prove you wrong and yeah I was an ass but as are you and we both know we friends so we can take each others shit sometimes.



I am in fact trying my damnedest to achieve I world class level physique and spend hours and hours on these boards pulling up as much info as I can in order to succeed and I'll relay it to my friends so count it as a benefit not a loss

Me 2
you 1 haha

okie dokie...

[Reed]

So remember ladies if your a 14 yr old 100lb little girl dosing anadrol for 6 years you may be at risk haha

[Ernst]

So remember ladies if your a 14 yr old 100lb little girl dosing anadrol for 6 years you may be at risk haha

that cracked me up

[peachfuzz]

So remember ladies if your a 14 yr old 100lb little girl dosing anadrol for 6 years you may be at risk haha

what do you think will happen to me?