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Thread: The complete NOOPEPT thread: how it works, what it is, and ADMINISTRATION/DOSING.

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    Atomini's Avatar
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    The complete NOOPEPT thread: how it works, what it is, and ADMINISTRATION/DOSING.

    Alright, almost everyone here probably knows of my Noopept log. I am making this thread to post the most prominent information on Noopept, what it is, how it works, and especially: dosing and administration guidelines. This post is just basically compiled copypasted information from my Noopept log. I figure its a much better idea to do this, since many very valuable informative posts from both myself and others in my log will get lost in the many pages and people will miss these informative posts when searching for information on Noopept. I have a feeling this would get better responses if all essential information was brought into its own new thread. I encourage everyone else to add their Noopept experiences, and any other information or insight they may have.

    NOTE: I am most of my personal experiences from this post. If anyone wishes to follow my experiences and results on Noopept, please see my log here: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-s-NOOPEPT-log!!! just read through the first post and then scroll through each page and find my posts that are all highlighted in RED, as those are the posts clearly marked in red that are my log updates. I will continue to log my progress on there. This thread can be for general dicussion and/or other people's experiences.

    DISCLAIMER: No liability is assumed by the author (me, Atomini) for the following information. The following is for informational/entertainment purposes only and the author (me, Atomini) reccomends all individuals consult with a doctor prior to beginning the administration of any new supplements or drugs. I, the author, am not responsible if you kill yourself, screw yourself up, or have any issues as a result of using Noopept. This work is copyrighted by me, Atomini, the author of this post/article.

    So, here we go:

    INTRODUCTION

    Noopept is a Performance enhancing drug for the brain.

    Thats right, compounds that enhance cognitive performance, memory recall, memory storage, etc. One member here knows I started this two days ago. I was not originally going to post this up here, since this is an AAS forum and it would be out of place but I figured it wouldn't hurt to share this information with all of you, since after all this is just a different form of performance enhancement. But this is why i'm sticking this here in the lounge instead of the rest of the forum because it really doesn't belong anywhere but here, since it is essentially off-topic to the topic of AAS. This isn't a recreactional drug and it is 100% legal to buy and use, however it is hard to find. I have actually been observing, studying and eyeing this particular compound for about half a year now, and it is called Noopept. Let me first introduce you guys to it in case you have not heard of it.

    ABOUT NOOPEPT

    This was a compound developed in Russia, and a cool thing about it is that Noopept is a PEPTIDE! However, what is awesome about it is that it is a peptide that can be administered orally because it is a peptide that is all of about 2 amino acids long. This allows it to easily be small enough to be absorbed via the GI tract without the majority of it being ripped apart by digestive enzymes and acids. It easily is small enough to penetrate the blood-brain barrier as well, where it is most effective and does its work. It belongs to a family of performance enhancing compounds known as Racetams.

    Noopept I would say is considered the Trenbolone of Racetam compounds and cognitive performance enhancers. Overall, any performance enhancing drug for the brain is known as a Nootropic. It was developed recently (about 3 years ago or so), and it has been found to be 1,000x stronger than the strongest Racetam that came before it, which is Piracetam. It also exhibits some positive and beneficial effects on the brain that other Racetams do not.

    Racetams such as Noopept ARE NOT like Adderall or any related stimulants. I have Adderall prescribed for my ADD, and it does assist in studying but it does not enhance the brain's capability and functions of protein transport, memory recall, memory storage, or any other of these functions. Adderall is a brand name for a mixture of approximately 85% Dextroamphetamine and 15% Levoamphetamine. They are stimulants and serve only to keep an individual on-task more, provide wakefulness and energy, and allow the user to concentrate a great deal more. But it does not actually improve learning function like Noopept would. I just want to make that clear.

    Noopept can be found from some research chem companies and plenty of bulk powder sources all over the internet (including Amazon.com and ebay).

    ADMINISTRATION

    10 - 30mg administered 1 - 3 times daily. Preferrably with food (a high protein meal) since Noopept is a peptide it will be transported and processed faster with other protein ingested. THIS IS FOR ORAL INGESTION ONLY.

    For sublingual administration guidelines, scroll down further until you see the important detailed section that discusses administration in greater detail.

    Noopept can be administered orally. Unlike nearly all peptide compounds, it has demonstrated a high level of oral bioavailability(1).

    - It's half-life is unknown. Despite my research and searching through all kinds of studies and documents, I could not find out Noopept's half life. The only possible information I could locate was from Noopept's main website where it says the following: "Time to achieve maximum concentration in an average of 15 minutes. The half of the blood plasma - 0.38 h. The drug partially preserved unchanged, partly metabolized to form phenylacetic acid and fenilatsetilprolina tsikloprolilglitsina. It has a high relative bioavailability (99.7%). "(2). What this means is that the administration of Noopept seems to increase the concentration of an endogenous Nootropic in the nervous system known as Cyclo-L-prolylglycine(3). If you still don't understand what this means, it is basically the same idea as how we use HGH. When exogenous HGH is administered, its half life is only approximately 30 minutes but the mechanism of action of HGH is that it signals the liver to release large amounts of IGF-1, which is the hormone that actually does the work that is commonly credited to HGH. Similar concept with Noopept.

    Research shows that Noopept stimulates the expression of two very important proteins, nerve growth factor (NGF) and brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF). Both of these proteins enhance the creation and protection of new brain cells. In fact, Noopept may speed up your brain’s production of brain cells to a greater degree than any other Nootropic. This all means Noopept should increase brain plasticity pretty significantly. If you're studying and practicing this new habit of concentration then there's no reason it can't have lasting effects even after you've stopped taking it. IT MEANS ITS EFFECTS REMAIN AFTER ADMINISTRATION HAS CEASED! When it comes to the noticeable feeling Noopept provides, people have nothing but good things to say. Noopept improves people’s attention, awareness and memory. When I was researching it, I was seeing people's reports of increased visual clarity, slight euphoria, improved memory and awareness. Social situations seem to flow better and speech is improved. ALL of these of which I have personally experienced myself already after taking it for only two days. I am studying a ton of shit in school, trying to get through tough science programs, so I need every edge I can get here.

    It has been shown in studies to be a neuroprotective and an anti-oxidant in the nervous system and the brain. It is also used to treat Alzheimers pateints as well as treatment for individuals with brain damage from physical impact, alcoholics who have destroyed brain cells through alcohol abuse, etc. This is one miracle drug for the brain and nervous system as a whole!

    Side Note: While doing my in-depth research in this stuff over the last several months, you know what i've discovered? There is literally a whole subcultrure of Nootropic drug users, just like the anabolic steroid using community here, where they stack different Nootropic drugs in order to enhance brain and cognitive performance, just like we do with AAS (only its centered around performance enhancement of the brain of course). And like I said, Noopept from what I have seen is basically the Trenbolone of Nootropics, as it is 1000 times stronger than the strongest nootropic before it (Piracetam), only it doesn't come with a bunch of undesirable side effects like Trenbolone does. It is just like how we use AAS, only you dont need to cycle Nootropics.

    SIDE EFFECTS: None. Some users of OTHER Racetams have reported increased anger. This hasn't been the case with Noopept unless excessive and extreme doses are used (basically doses that are > 90mg daily). There is also no need to cycle Noopept, although many individuals will do 3 months on, 1-2 months off.

    Headaches can be a potential side effect, resulting from a Choline deficiency in the body. As Noopept is a Cholinergic compound that increases Acetylcholine activity (an extremely important neurotransmitter), Choline deficiencies will lead to headaches commonly. Excess Acetylcholine in the nervous system will lead to brain fog. If Noopept doses remain sensible and not extreme, headaches are not an issue 95% of the time.

    Vivid dreams are a side effect that many have reported of, including myself. Not a serious issue but be aware that dreams may become more vivid. This may not affect all users.

    OTHER/MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION ON NOOPEPT

    - The additional supplementation of Choline alongside Racetam compounds should further potentiate the positive effects in the brain by way of more abundant Acetylcholine present in the nervous system and in the synapses between neurons so that the increased activity provided by Noopept becomes even greater. Because Noopept and all Racetams are Cholinergic in their activity (they increase the activity and presence of the ever so important neurotransmitter: Acetylcholine.

    - Noopept is a peptide
    - Belongs to a family of cognitive neurological brain enhancers (AKA Nootropics) known as Racetams.
    - Despite being a peptide, Noopept holds a high amount of oral bioavailablilty.
    - Racetams such as Noopept DO NOT operate via the same mechanisms of action as stimulants such as Adderall (amphetamines) and Ritalin (Methylphenidate) and therefore Noopept does not exhibit stimulant-like side effects.
    - Research shows that Noopept stimulates the expression of two very important proteins, nerve growth factor (NGF) and brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF). Both of these proteins enhance the creation and protection of new brain cells. In fact, Noopept may speed up your brain’s production of brain cells to a greater degree than any other Nootropic. This all means Noopept should increase brain plasticity pretty significantly. If you're studying and practicing this new habit of concentration then there's no reason it can't have lasting effects even after you've stopped taking it. IT MEANS ITS EFFECTS REMAIN AFTER ADMINISTRATION HAS CEASED!

    GENERAL EFFECTS FROM NOOPEPT

    - Increases efficiency of memory storage (i.e. learning, etc.)
    - Increases efficiency of memory recall
    - Increases level of awareness
    - More efficient speech patterns
    - Reduction in anxiety
    - Increases wakefulness and energy
    - Improves sleep (BIG TIME)
    - Physical performance enhancement in the gym and athletics in relation to nervous system control and function of such activities
    - Increases nerve cell growth
    - Grows new brain cells
    - Nervous system antioxidant
    - Neuroprotectant
    - TOO MANY THINGS TO LIST HERE. Do some more googling or please view my log to see the different benefits and effects experienced

    REFERENCES:
    1. "Proline-containing dipeptide GVS-111 retains nootropic activity after oral administration". Ostrovskaya RU, Mirsoev TK, Romanova GA, Gudasheva TA, Kravchenko EV, Trofimov CC, Voronina TA, Seredenin SB (2001). Bulletin of Experimental Biology and Medicine 132 (4): 959–962. PMID 11782792.
    2. http://www.noopept.ru/
    3. "The major metabolite of dipeptide piracetam analogue GVS-111 in rat brain and its similarity to endogenous neuropeptide cyclo-L-prolylglycine". Gudasheva TA, Boyko SS, Ostrovskaya RU, Voronina TA, Akparov VK, Trofimov SS, Rozantsev GG, Skoldinov AP, Zherdev VP, Seredenin SB (1997). European Journal of Drug Metabolism and Pharmacokinetics 22 (3): 245–252. PMID 9358206

    IMPORTANT DETAILED INFORMATION ON THE ADMINISTRATION OF NOOPEPT - MUST READ!!

    Alright, so i've experimented with dosing Noopept in 3 different ways:

    - Oral administration
    - Sublingual administration
    - Neublizing/vaporizing it

    After plenty of research and trying primarily oral and sublingual administration, i've found that sublingual administration by far produces a greater immediate effect and an overall better effect than oral administration (even though it has been found in clinical testing that oral administration provides 95% or higher absorbtion. I've also tried nebulizing/vaporizing it but haven't done this enough to be able to gauge any effects properly. The problem is like I said, Noopept seems to undergo a few changes due to enzyme activity and also a few things in regards to the liver metabolism. A simple google search will yield quite a bit of information in the form of personal experience as well as commentary by some people who really know their chemistry well.

    Noopept is also highly soluble in alcohol, and while sublingual administration of the powder or tablets directly under the tongue works well, many reccomend mixing it into a very small amount of alcohol (yes, hard liquor or something - you don't need much at all) and then let it rest sublingually under the tongue for maximum transport efficiency into the sublingual membranes. I have not yet tried this but I will some time soon and report my findings. One such study has demonstrated that Noopept is absorbed into the blood stream through the GI tract and crosses the blood brain barrier unchanged(1) while another study demonstrated that Noopept ALSO undergoes hepatic metabolism (liver metabolism) into a metabolized form. So, I think we can conclude pretty distinctly that a good portion of Noopept is absorbed right into the bloodstream through the GI tract but a good portion of it is also metabolized in the liver!

    Here is what's actually going on from what i've gathered and from my knowledge of biochemistry in my analysis of the Noopept molecule (I actually hadn't examined it very closely until now): Noopept is a modified polypeptide consisting of an ester (Phenylacetyl ester) and 2 amino acids: Glycine and Proline. It is basically the amino acids Glycine and Proline linked together, with an Phenylacetyl group esterified to the Proline. This forms a peptide molecule, but an extremely small one and with the additional modifications of an ester attached to the amino acids, it is a unique one.

    I will explain this better, as usual, with my photoshopped pictures and explanations for those who may be considered a layman when it comes to chemistry and biology:

    Here is the amino acid Glycine:



    Here is the amino acid Proline:



    Here is the complete Noopept molecule:



    Here is a breakdown and explanation of what is where and what is what within the Noopept molecule:




    So, what does this mean and how does it all add up? Well, first of all, peptides when administered orally are rendered, for the most part, useless. This is because digestive enzymes and acids will rip apart the polypeptide (AKA a protein) into its individual amino acids for use. This is why we cannot ingest HGH, IGF-1 or any of these long-chain amino acids. They are too large to enter the gated channels in the cells lining the GI tract to be absorbed, so they must be broken apart into their smaller amino acids and be taken into the body that way. What results is a peptide that is no longer functional because it got ripped apart and digested. Now, smaller peptides such as Noopept and single-amino acid molecules such as T3 (Triiodothyronine) are absorbed at a much higher rate because of how small the peptide chain is (T3 is simply one amino acid with iodine atoms attached to it, and Noopept is just 2 peptides large with an ester attached to it). Alright, we already know these details, so what? Well here is what: a certain percentage of peptides usually make it through the GI tract into the bloodstream intact (especially small ones like Noopept). However, every individual is different in how they process different foods, medications, and compounds, and so and there are a large variety of enzymes that break the bonds between amino acids in peptide chains into the individual amino acids. When it comes to peptides, it then presents an issue as to how to generate an effective solution for dosing. This is whyother methods of administration are used. When it comes to the REALLY big peptides like HGH, IGF-1, etc. they must be injected (or nasal sprays, etc.) and there also exist transdermal administration for other peptide-based bedications. For small ones like Noopept, individuals can use sublingual administration for increased absorbtion. But how does this work? And how does Noopept still retain oral bioavailability in the GI tract? Well, it's time to delve deeper into that!

    One must understand that if a specific percentage of Noopept (or any compound) demonstrates bioavailability through the GI tract and crosses the blood brain barrier unchanged, it doesn't mean that it underwent 100% absorbtion. Compounds like Noopept do not require 100% absorption to operate efficiently due to the fact that this is SUCH A STRONG RACETAM (1,000 times STRONGER than the strongest Racetam that was around before it). Now here is the other thing, in addition to having a certain percentage of it absorbed through the GI tract, any additional Noopept that was not absorbed in this manner will continue on to the hepatic system (the liver) and undergo hepatic metabolism where it may be broken down in the liver into metabolites, BUT this would not affect the Noopept that did cross the blood brain barrier, because it remains unchanged by hepatic metabolism (the amount that gets through to the blood brain barrier intact does not reach the liver at all as it avoids the first pass).

    It is very important to understand that Noopept's mechanism of action is that of a pro-drug. NOOPEPT DOES NOT DO ANYTHING DIRECTLY. Its metabolites are the active drugs that do the work. What this means is that the administration of Noopept seems to increase the concentration of an endogenous Nootropic in the nervous system known as Cyclo-L-prolylglycine(3). If you still don't understand what this means, it is basically the same idea as prohormones or HGH. When exogenous HGH is administered, its half life is extremely short but the mechanism of action of HGH is that it signals the liver to release large amounts of IGF-1, which is the hormone that actually does the work that is commonly credited to HGH. Similar concept with Noopept. Noopept could be considered a propsychotropic just like how 1-androstenedione is a prohormone. REMEMBER THIS! IT IS VERY IMPORTANT!

    The Noopept molecule as a whole, from what I have been able to gather from my research, works like this: The section of the Noopept molecule that seems to actively provide the effects of Cyclo-L-prolylglycine increases is most likely the Racetam part of the Noopept molecule (the 2-Pyrrolidone ring), and if you don't know what that is then just scroll up and look at the Noopept molecule. The 'Racetam' part of the molecule is the four corner ring with the Nitrogen (N) atom right at the top center of it (this ring is officially known as a 2-Pyrrolidone ring in chemistry). This ring is the one common structural characteristic among all Racetams that make Racetams a Racetam. Just like how all anabolic steroids possess the basic four-ring carbon structure known as the steroid structure - this is what makes a steroid a steroid. Now, Noopept may also work on Glycine receptors using the tail end of the Noopept molecule as well (the tail end if you take a look at the picture IS the Glycine amino acid). The whole Noopept molecules does need to be intact for it to do its job. Individually ripped apart Glycines, Prolines, and Phenylacetyl esters floating around won't do anything in the body - its like ripping a car apart into individual nuts, bolts, and scaps of metal. It's not even a useable car at that point!

    So, the question is: Oral or sublingual administration?

    ORAL: Conclusion is that a good portion IS absorbed orally, while a good portion is also destroyed by enzymes and hepatic metabolism. The reason why Noopept still works so well even when ingested orally is because it's such a powerful compound (remember, 1,000 times more potent than Piracetam, which was the strongest Racetam that was around before the discovery of Noopept).

    SUBLINGUAL: You will absorb almost 100% through this route. Not much else to be said here. No risk of any percentage of it getting ripped apart by hepatic metabolism, as it avoids the first pass. KEEP IN MIND THAT DOSING NOOPEPT IN THIS MANNER WILL RESULT IN FAR STRONGER AND MORE POTENT EFFECTS IN COMPARISON TO ORAL ADMINISTRATION OF THE SAME DOSE (30mg orally vs 30mg sublingually will = far stronger effects sublingually), AND THEREFORE A LOWER DOSE MAY BE NECESSARY DOING THIS.

    However, at the end of the day, the fact of the matter is this: people who take decide to take Noopept or racetams that are waiting to expect some massively huge effect need to drop the Noopept and look somewhere else. Racetams and Noopept cause changes that many people just take for granted or will not truly notice. You have to not only be in proper tune with your body and its reactions, but you also need to engage your brain in constant learning stimulus to really notice the difference between after taking Noopept and before you started. These effects from Noopept, as I have said MANY TIMES, are cumulative (meaning, they build-up slowly over time just like AAS and you cannot expect 'gains' within the first week or two of use)! I cannot hammer that point enough into everyone's heads here. DO NOT expect anything short-term wise from Noopept unless you are a very sensitive responder. My effects did not reach a higher level of effects until at least 2 weeks into use.

    A VERY IMPORTANT TESTIMONIAL FROM A VERY GOOD FRIEND OF MINE WHO TRIED NOOPEPT


    Posted originally from my log:

    Guys, I have an awesome testimonial here from a really good friend of mine who I got to jump on the Noopept bandwagon and just today not too long ago. He is a fellow brother in arms, and he has major depression, anxiety, etc. etc. and I know exactly where he's coming from on this.

    His case may be a special one because of his condition. But regardless, it's a testimonly of how strong and effective Noopept and Racetams actually are (even way beyond that of just better cognitive performance in learning, memory, etc.). He told me the following:

    "OMGWAFFLEES this stuff is amaazing!! I feel amazing, like feeling high with no high bad sides, I laughed for the first time in 2 months! and im smiling hand having a great time!! All my depression I had was gone and I feel so alive right now!! Its like the best of being high, cocaine and extsasy without those harsh chemicals! My friend and and are having such a good time right now! Dude thank you so much. I've felt depressed and suicidal for the past 3 months!!! It's all gone. Thank you so much! I'm sure it's only going to get better. I feel so alive right now I came to the gym to tear it up and see what the pump is like. Right now I feel like I could do anything I used to feel like this and it's back but even better and this is only after 1 low dose of 37mg!!! The black cloud has been broken over my life!!!! Even water tastes better!! Thank you so much man! Your like the brother I never had."

    A little later:

    "Dude it was like being blind and then being able to see for the first time, it was that incredible. I literally had not laughed in months and I laughed so hard today at something my friend said even right now thinking about it I'm smug and smiling about it. This never happens to me...ever! You have changed my life man. Without you I might have been dead soon by suicide or something but you and this drug has given me new hope. I literally had no hope anymore and didn't want to ever wake up. Now I'm calm and collected and feel like myself again 6 months ago! I can't imagine what I'm going to feel like in two weeks or more and adding the chlorine. It's like the most intense change I have ever felt in my entire life!

    If all it did was take away depression that would be enough. This is the only thing that worked! I'm listening to music right now! Have not enjoyed music in months! It's giving me goosebumps !"


    Well looks like the jury is in on this one. However, his case may be somewhat special, though it's not that far off: I've already mentioned to you guys that there really is no comedown, as its something that works progressively and is for the most part, its effects are cumulative and slow-building. It is very much like AAS. Nobody experiences gains in the first week or two within starting their cycle! HOWEVER, with that being said, there are some immediate effects that even I too did experience within 30 minutes of taking my very first dose when I first started use. Some individuals may be more responsive and sensitive to Racetams, and will experience immediate effects along side the cumulative slow building effects. I seem to be one of those to some degree (but I haven't yet seen all of everyone here's experiences just yet). In my friend's case I think that his depression, PTSD, anxiety and such had caused his nervous system to break down and become so wrecked to such a point where something like this would cause a HUUUUUUGE major and massive change in such a quick period of time.

    It's like taking someone who has a wasting disease and is in a coma and dropped to a weight of like 110 lbs. What do you think is gonna happen when they wake up from the coma and you give them AAS to help them rehab? They'll EXPLODE with growth even witin even days of starting. It's still a little more of a longer acting thing than Noopept but its the same general idea.

    I experienced everything he did, only not to an extreme as I wasn't depressed or anything but yeah, noticeable stuff. And he didn't even use Choline with it yet!

    REFERENCES:
    1. Pharmacokinetics of new nootropic acylprolyldipeptide and its penetration across the blood-brain barrier after oral administration. Boiko SS, Ostrovskaya RU, Zherdev VP, Korotkov SA, Gudasheva TA, Voronina TA, Seredenin SB. Laboratory of Pharmacokinetics, Institute of Pharmacology, Russian Academy of Medical Sciences, Moscow. Bull Exp Biol Med. 2000 Apr;129(4):359-61.
    2. Bioaccessibility of the new dipeptide nootropic drug noopept. S. S. Boiko, V. P. Zherdev, T. A. Gudasheva, R. U. Ostrovskaya, S. A. Korotkov, O. Yu. Kravtsova. Khimiko-Farmatsevticheskii Zhurnal, Vol. 38, No. 12, pp. 3 – 5, December, 2004.
    3. "The major metabolite of dipeptide piracetam analogue GVS-111 in rat brain and its similarity to endogenous neuropeptide cyclo-L-prolylglycine". Gudasheva TA, Boyko SS, Ostrovskaya RU, Voronina TA, Akparov VK, Trofimov SS, Rozantsev GG, Skoldinov AP, Zherdev VP, Seredenin SB (1997). European Journal of Drug Metabolism and Pharmacokinetics 22 (3): 245–252. PMID 9358206
    Last edited by Atomini; 02-01-2013 at 12:19 AM. Reason: Added disclaimer

  2. #2
    Atomini's Avatar
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    Oope forgot this:

    HOW TO USE CHOLINE AND WHICH TYPE TO BUY/USE WITH NOOPEPT:

    Okay, so i've been doing some in-depth researching, reading, and shopping around for Choline. I've discovered 3 of the following types of Choline I can get:

    Choline Bitartrate
    CDP Choline (cytidine diphosphate-choline)
    Alpha GPC (Glyceryl Phosphoryl Choline)

    Here is the low-down on them according to a post someone made on another forum (saves me from explaining it all myself):

    First of all, not all choline sources are created equal, and they have different mechanisms of action and different processes of metabolism.

    So the mood/brain-fog effects of choline really depend on what kind of choline you're taking. If you're taking choline bitartrate/citrate or lecithin then don't worry about it. Those forms must be metabolized first before crossing the blood brain barrier (not actually certain about lecithin, but that's likely the case) which means that your body regulates the amount of acetylcholine increase you'll get in the brain from them.

    Alpha-GPC, CDP Choline and DMAE cross the blood brain barrier directly so they require dramatically reduced dosages in comparison. For example you could safely take 6-8grams of lecithin but you'd definitely want to avoid ever taking 6-8 grams of Alpha-GPC. DMAE has a different mechanism of action and there are some great posts by devinthayer on this forum about it (try out that search function).

    There are plenty of people taking piracetam without a choline source outside of their normal dietary intake. Personally I found that BBB (blood brain barrier) crossing forms of choline are the number one source for unwanted emotional effects or brain fog. I tried DMAE and it made me dulled out, depressed and spacey.

    When I finally run out of choline bitartrate (500g's lasts forever) I'm going to switch to choline citrate, and that's what I'd recommend. Choline is good for a lot of different things in the body. For a lot more info check this link. You can take up to 3.5grams per day safely and side effect free and there isn't much reason to go over that amount.

    Since your body regulates it's distribution through metabolism you're unlikely to experience any brain fog or mental-cholinergic side effects. I was taking around 3 grams a day for the first 8 months of the year in three divided doses. Never got any headaches except from nefiracetam but that's a whole-nother thread.
    So, basically, Choline Bitartrate is considered one of the lowest grades, but this doesn't mean it isn't effective. As the explanation above states, Choline Bitartrate is still utilized by the body but it just isn't capable of benetrating the blood-brain barrier. It must undergo metabolism in order to do so, where it is then used by the body according to how it sees fit. CDP Choline is small and efficient enough to cross the blood-brain barrier instantly, making it more effective, but also causing the margin for error and unwanted side effects to increase (like brain fog from taking too much or headaches from too little). Same thing with Alpha GPC Choline. Problem with CDP Choline is that it's VERY VERY VERY expensive, and so is Alpha GPC. Choline Bitartrate, on the other hand, is very cheap and in massive quantities.

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    This thread should leave NO questions unanswered and no stones unturned. All the information is here for everyone to know about Noopept, what it does, what it doesn't do, how it works, and how to use it. Honestly, nobody should have any basic questions (what it does, dosing, route of administration, etc.) after being provided all of this information. Advanced questions should be all that's left for people to ponder.

    The more information that individuals add to this thread will further increase the knowledge base here on Noopept.

  4. #4
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    Stimulant master at strikes again, top thread. Your new nickname now atomini, stimmy ha.

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    lol but it's not a stimulant!

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    Increases efficiency of memory storage (i.e. learning, etc.)
    - Increases efficiency of memory recall
    - Increases level of awareness
    - More efficient speech patterns
    - Reduction in anxiety
    - Increases wakefulness and energy
    - Improves sleep (BIG TIME)
    - Physical performance enhancement in the gym and athletics in relation to nervous system control and function of such activities
    - Increases nerve cell growth
    - Grows new brain cells
    - Nervous system antioxidant
    - Neuroprotectant
    - TOO MANY THINGS TO LIST HERE. Do some more googling or please view my log to see the different benefits and effects experienced

    Sounds like one to me but its a peptide i understand.

  7. #7
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    Too much to read. Just tell me what my cycle should look like, expected gains, and if I can drink it or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoggage_54 View Post
    Too much to read. Just tell me what my cycle should look like, expected gains, and if I can drink it or not.
    If you cant take the time to read what your taking, how can you ever benefit from it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini View Post
    lol but it's not a stimulant!


    Attachment 132709

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    I'm hoping Hoggage's response was a joke.

    Because his response is very reminiscent of the typical 19 year old kid who posts in the Q&A section: "I wanna juce and get huge. Just tell me what my cycle should look like, expected gains, and if I can do dbol -only or not.". I mean, come on.

    But I can't tell if he was being facetious or not so that's my problem lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini View Post
    This thread should leave NO questions unanswered and no stones unturned. All the information is here for everyone to know about Noopept, what it does, what it doesn't do, how it works, and how to use it. Honestly, nobody should have any basic questions (what it does, dosing, route of administration, etc.) after being provided all of this information. Advanced questions should be all that's left for people to ponder.

    The more information that individuals add to this thread will further increase the knowledge base here on Noopept.
    You know I like turning over stones..

    In regards to sublingual, what is the desired time to leave it under the tongue? Until it's 100% dissolved? 30 seconds? 1 minute? I did my 1st sublingual today and left it for close to 1 minute and I could still feel/taste the noopept after.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini View Post
    I'm hoping Hoggage's response was a joke.

    Because his response is very reminiscent of the typical 19 year old kid who posts in the Q&A section: "I wanna juce and get huge. Just tell me what my cycle should look like, expected gains, and if I can do dbol -only or not.". I mean, come on.

    But I can't tell if he was being facetious or not so that's my problem lol.



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    He's just being Hoggage 54. If he didnt say something like that then we would be worried.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovbyts View Post
    You know I like turning over stones..

    In regards to sublingual, what is the desired time to leave it under the tongue? Until it's 100% dissolved? 30 seconds? 1 minute? I did my 1st sublingual today and left it for close to 1 minute and I could still feel/taste the noopept after.
    Leave it under the tongue as long as you possibly can. The majority of it should be absorbed within a matter of 5 - 10 minutes, maybe less. You'll always taste and feel the Noopept in your mouth, because some of it seeps out from underneath the tongue. Also remember that the larger the dose = the larger the amount of powder = the longer it will take to dissolve. When I do my 30mg sublingual dosing, it takes like 15 minutes sometimes. And even at the end of my 15 minutes, there's still some left. But I don't care, because by the time 15 minutes is up, i'm sure enough Noopept has been absorbed sublingually that any minor extra powder that might still be in your mouth is just very tiny tiny amounts and won't matter any ways. Being that sublingual absorbtion is much more efficient, you should be getting far more Noopept being absorbed than if you otherwise swallowed it at the same dose.

    I love Hoggage.

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    Seriously 15 minutes? That sounds a little extreme. I think the sublingual tablets dissolve in about a minute or less, or at least that is my expeience with b12 tabs. I should have the noopept sublingual tabs for the wife in a few days and will give one a try.

    I know and understand that there will always be some residue left from the sublingual since not all of it is small enough to be absorbed due to fillers and such to hold it together but I would imagine it would not take more than a couple minutes at best? I may be wrong, sounds like something to look into more.

    Taking it with a small amount (few drops) of alcohol is probably also a good way to go if you want quicker absorption. Sounds like a good use for ever-clear.

    Good warning on the sublingual vs oral swallowing and the amount/mg absorbed due to not passing through the liver.

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    Well I think that I may be overestimating on the times required for dissolving it sublingually. I never actually timed myself.

    And you are correct, you're never going to have 100% of the tablets or powder totally gone and absorbed, there will always be a bit left over. Keep in mind these powders and tablets were not designed for sublingual administration. As long as the active ingredient gets into my bloodsteam, i'm happy.

    I am going to try this out with some alcohol tomorrow. I have a left-over bottle of 108.2 proof (54% alcohol) bottle of Wild Turkey Rare Breed whisky I need to put to good use. LOL seriously though, i'll only be using maybe a few drops to dissolve the Noopept into it and then bang, under the tongue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini View Post
    Well I think that I may be overestimating on the times required for dissolving it sublingually. I never actually timed myself.

    And you are correct, you're never going to have 100% of the tablets or powder totally gone and absorbed, there will always be a bit left over. Keep in mind these powders and tablets were not designed for sublingual administration. As long as the active ingredient gets into my bloodsteam, i'm happy.

    I am going to try this out with some alcohol tomorrow. I have a left-over bottle of 108.2 proof (54% alcohol) bottle of Wild Turkey Rare Breed whisky I need to put to good use. LOL seriously though, i'll only be using maybe a few drops to dissolve the Noopept into it and then bang, under the tongue.
    Not to get off topic but for some reason when I think of holding the noopept in my mouth, under my tongue for 15 minutes or even several minutes the only think that runs though my mind is bukkake videos. maybe it's just me. lol

    Maybe i will have to break out my bottle of Absinthe. 72% abv

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovbyts View Post
    Not to get off topic but for some reason when I think of holding the noopept in my mouth, under my tongue for 15 minutes or even several minutes the only think that runs though my mind is bukkake videos. maybe it's just me. lol

    Maybe i will have to break out my bottle of Absinthe. 72% abv
    Awkward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capebuffalo View Post
    Awkward.
    Clarification needed. That would be WATCHING, not doing....

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    Lmfao!!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by lovbyts

    Clarification needed. That would be WATCHING, not doing....
    10 guys 1 girl you in the corner watching.

    Awkward

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    Shooting ropes with NOOPEPT. awesome

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovbyts View Post
    Seriously 15 minutes? That sounds a little extreme. I think the sublingual tablets dissolve in about a minute or less, or at least that is my expeience with b12 tabs. I should have the noopept sublingual tabs for the wife in a few days and will give one a try.
    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini View Post
    Well I think that I may be overestimating on the times required for dissolving it sublingually. I never actually timed myself.

    And you are correct, you're never going to have 100% of the tablets or powder totally gone and absorbed, there will always be a bit left over. Keep in mind these powders and tablets were not designed for sublingual administration. As long as the active ingredient gets into my bloodsteam, i'm happy.
    I bought a bottle from a supplier on Amazon, cherry flavored oral dissolve tabs, that instruct to "let dissolve completely in the bottom of your mouth" I put two under my tongue and they easily take 15 minutes to dissolve.

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    To everyone who has dosed it sublingually: thus far, have you seen and experienced any effects in comparison to oral dosing like I have?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini View Post
    I love Hoggage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini View Post
    To everyone who has dosed it sublingually: thus far, have you seen and experienced any effects in comparison to oral dosing like I have?
    I have not noticed as good as sleep as before but that also may be due to me taking one of my vyvance for ADD and having a few cups of coffee. I will continue and try to see if there is a difference.

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    I have attempted just now to mix my Noopept into a bit of alcohol. I posted the results in my log, but here it is:

    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini View Post
    LOG UPDATE:

    I just attempted to mix my Noopept with alcohol and tried to allow it to absorb sublingually. I have a left-over bottle of 108.2 proof (54% alcohol) bottle of Wild Turkey Rare Breed whisky. I measured my Noopept, dumped it into a shot glass, and added maybe a QUARTER of the glass with whiskey, stirred it up until the majority of the powder was dissolved, and then put it under my tongue.

    Conclusions - I feel as though it is much easier to just sublingually dose the Noopept in its powder form rather than dissolve it in alcohol and do it, because the alcohol is much more difficult to remain under the tongue. The good news is that even if some or most of it did not absorb sublingually, whatever was swallowed should get through the GI tract quickly without being broken apart by enzymes or undergo hepatic metabolism. This is because Noopept is soluble in alcohol, meaning that the Noopept molecule contains unique properties that allow it to hold intermolecular forces and unique polarity (chemistry terms) that makes it highly attracted to the alcohol molecule. This means the alcohol should essentially 'force', 'push' or 'facilitate' the Noopept directly through the GI tract quickly into the blood fast enough so that the enzymes and acids don't destroy a lot of it, let alone it reaching hepatic metabolism.

    Therefore, my conclusion is that mixing it in alcohol is good for better absorbtion through the GI tract via typical oral dosing. It is not good for sublingual dosing.

    At the end of the day, I am going to just let the powder rest under the tongue. If I ever need to orally dose Noopept (through the GI tract), then I will mix with alcohol and drink it. I hope this update provided informative for everyone.

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    searched ebay found:

    Demiurge - Phenylpiracetam nootropic

    apparently better than noopept?

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    All this sub-lingual talk...anyone know is say using HPBCD as a filler and capping..then just opening cap and dumping under tongue....would work? Thats the the sub-lingual carrier that is used with most sub-lingual preparations. Its worth a look imo ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by kronik420 View Post
    searched ebay found:

    Demiurge - Phenylpiracetam nootropic

    apparently better than noopept?
    I heard about that and i'm not so sure just yet about impusively buy it. It's also WAY more expensive than Noopept. Some information i've found claims it to be only about 30 - 60 times more potent than Piracetam. No mention of it being anywhere near as strong as Noopept. Other sources claim it is stronger than Noopept. I don't trust any of this information just yet. In any case, price is an issue with it and from what i've seen, it is way too expensive in comparison to Noopept's price for the amounts you get. I will stick to Noopept for now, as it is doing everything I wanted and expected it to. I will probably give Phenylpiracetam a shot in maybe half a year from now, after i've thoroughly used Noopept and maybe stacked a couple of other Racetams with it. Noopept's price just can't be beaten. For less than $200 bucks I can have over a year's worth supply lol. Very tempting though.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup View Post
    All this sub-lingual talk...anyone know is say using HPBCD as a filler and capping..then just opening cap and dumping under tongue....would work? Thats the the sub-lingual carrier that is used with most sub-lingual preparations. Its worth a look imo ....
    Thanks for the info, I know nothing about sublingual carriers, and i'll look into this further. Where would someone go about getting it though?

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    Everyone, check my log for a major update on the inclusion of Choline with Noopept.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomini View Post
    Thanks for the info, I know nothing about sublingual carriers, and i'll look into this further. Where would someone go about getting it though?
    It used to be avail through ******** / bulknutrition but i dont even know if they are still around. Im sure it can be had.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovbyts View Post
    Clarification needed. That would be WATCHING, not doing....
    Hey lov, how is your sleep so far, still off the ambien and sleeping well?

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    Guys, I have an awesome testimonial here from a really good friend of mine who I got to jump on the Noopept bandwagon and just today not too long ago. He is a fellow brother in arms, and he has major depression, anxiety, etc. etc. and I know exactly where he's coming from on this.

    His case may be a special one because of his condition. But regardless, it's a testimonly of how strong and effective Noopept and Racetams actually are (even way beyond that of just better cognitive performance in learning, memory, etc.). He told me the following:

    "OMGWAFFLEES this stuff is amaazing!! I feel amazing, like feeling high with no high bad sides, I laughed for the first time in 2 months! and im smiling hand having a great time!! All my depression I had was gone and I feel so alive right now!! Its like the best of being high, cocaine and extsasy without those harsh chemicals! My friend and and are having such a good time right now! Dude thank you so much. I've felt depressed and suicidal for the past 3 months!!! It's all gone. Thank you so much! I'm sure it's only going to get better. I feel so alive right now I came to the gym to tear it up and see what the pump is like. Right now I feel like I could do anything I used to feel like this and it's back but even better and this is only after 1 low dose of 37mg!!! The black cloud has been broken over my life!!!! Even water tastes better!! Thank you so much man! Your like the brother I never had."

    A little later:

    "Dude it was like being blind and then being able to see for the first time, it was that incredible. I literally had not laughed in months and I laughed so hard today at something my friend said even right now thinking about it I'm smug and smiling about it. This never happens to me...ever! You have changed my life man. Without you I might have been dead soon by suicide or something but you and this drug has given me new hope. I literally had no hope anymore and didn't want to ever wake up. Now I'm calm and collected and feel like myself again 6 months ago! I can't imagine what I'm going to feel like in two weeks or more and adding the chlorine. It's like the most intense change I have ever felt in my entire life!

    If all it did was take away depression that would be enough. This is the only thing that worked! I'm listening to music right now! Have not enjoyed music in months! It's giving me goosebumps !"


    Well looks like the jury is in on this one. However, his case may be somewhat special, though it's not that far off: I've already mentioned to you guys that there really is no comedown, as its something that works progressively and is for the most part, its effects are cumulative and slow-building. It is very much like AAS. Nobody experiences gains in the first week or two within starting their cycle! HOWEVER, with that being said, there are some immediate effects that even I too did experience within 30 minutes of taking my very first dose when I first started use. Some individuals may be more responsive and sensitive to Racetams, and will experience immediate effects along side the cumulative slow building effects. I seem to be one of those to some degree (but I haven't yet seen all of everyone here's experiences just yet). In my friend's case I think that his depression, PTSD, anxiety and such had caused his nervous system to break down and become so wrecked to such a point where something like this would cause a HUUUUUUGE major and massive change in such a quick period of time.

    It's like taking someone who has a wasting disease and is in a coma and dropped to a weight of like 110 lbs. What do you think is gonna happen when they wake up from the coma and you give them AAS to help them rehab? They'll EXPLODE with growth even witin even days of starting. It's still a little more of a longer acting thing than Noopept but its the same general idea.

    I experienced everything he did, only not to an extreme as I wasn't depressed or anything but yeah, noticeable stuff. And he didn't even use Choline with it yet!

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    Just took my first 20 mgs. See you on the other side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capebuffalo View Post
    Just took my first 20 mgs. See you on the other side.
    Still waiting -_-

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    Quote Originally Posted by wh1spa View Post
    Still waiting -_-
    To get or to kick in?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capebuffalo View Post
    To get or to kick in?
    To see you on the other side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evander87 View Post
    To see you on the other side.
    I have such high expectations I think I'm getting a placebo effect. Oh well. I'll take it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capebuffalo View Post
    To get or to kick in?
    To Get!

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