Avoid cardio first thing in the morning and before a workout

[mattvdh]

The factual info is just rolling in


This is not a fact, this a hypothesis by a old dude who was swoled once upon a time. Okay, when I get that old after being juiced up, can I just come up with shit & people will believe me? < I sure do hope so

It's not hypothesis he's using good logic and he does a lot of research if you watch his channel. When you wake up in the morning your glycogen stores are depleted and you have no defences against catabolic effects. You've gone 7-8 hours without food and now you're going to go burn some more calories. And many people trying to cut are in a deficit already so that means they are much more likely to roll over into muscle catabolism.

I find it just brutal how little respect people have for old-timers in general in these modern times. It's one thing to say he's incorrect, it's another to call him a fat fossil. You guys need to respect these guys for the path they paved for us. Without these guys building up the sport and providing millions of people with inspiration, we wouldn't have nearly as much information on building muscle and manipulation of the body. Your grandparents fought or aided in the wars for our freedoms to enjoy this luxury recreational sport. People in many other countries aren't jogging on treadmills, they're jogging to find food.

respect in gyms and locker rooms - YouTube

There's such a little amount of respect for people in general these days, there's no comradery in the gym anymore. The guys in the golden age were all buddies and helped each other out. We ought to learn from their leadership. Enough with the win at all costs attitudes. Are we brothers in iron or out to destroy each other out and be enemies? We have this idea of being 'alpha' these days like this dick head guy that only considers himself and crushes everyone in his path, that's not what being a leader is all about. It's about helping out others and looking for reasons to complement and build up. The biggest form of 'beta' or weakness to me are people who destructively criticize and think of reasons to belittle others.

[spywizard]

so science and medicine are incorrect??? low intensity cardio with depleted glycogen stores is not the best way to burn stored fats for energy..

damn, i need to start reading different books..

[Lunk1]

Now you are just finding reason to argue. not even relevant to your OP. As base mentioned..do some homework and read about glycogen stores. You have plenty after a night of sleep. Just because this guy has been around forever does NOT mean he is right. Science has advanced in the sport of BB since this guy was in his prime. Your argument is that he is old and been there done it, therefore he HAS to be right. That's like saying the old guys who used to cycle without use of an AI or a PCT MUST be right because they got big and are not dead.

You obviously are moderately intelligent based on your posts but I say moderate because you are believing someone in a youtube video vs doing real research and checking the claims against medical research.

[austinite]

^ respect? Maybe you should show some, then you can talk about respect.

There's another loser video... This is a guy (Ric) who has done more worthless clips with Rich Piana (another idiot) that we want to see. All garbage and never actually talks about the topic. Tells people never to use hCG on cycle, keeps telling people to try this and that with no explanation. Seriously, the absolute worst idea ever was for him to take his thoughts to youtube.

Man, you're just a fan of randomness. Brother, welcome to the 60's... population: YOU!

[gixxerboy1]

It's not hypothesis he's using good logic and he does a lot of research if you watch his channel. When you wake up in the morning your glycogen stores are depleted and you have no defences against catabolic effects. You've gone 7-8 hours without food and now you're going to go burn some more calories. And many people trying to cut are in a deficit already so that means they are much more likely to roll over into muscle catabolism.

I find it just brutal how little respect people have for old-timers in general in these modern times. It's one thing to say he's incorrect, it's another to call him a fat fossil. You guys need to respect these guys for the path they paved for us. Without these guys building up the sport and providing millions of people with inspiration, we wouldn't have nearly as much information on building muscle and manipulation of the body. Your grandparents fought or aided in the wars for our freedoms to enjoy this luxury recreational sport. People in many other countries aren't jogging on treadmills, they're jogging to find food.

respect in gyms and locker rooms - YouTube

There's such a little amount of respect for people in general these days, there's no comradery in the gym anymore. The guys in the golden age were all buddies and helped each other out. We ought to learn from their leadership. Enough with the win at all costs attitudes. Are we brothers in iron or out to destroy each other out and be enemies? We have this idea of being 'alpha' these days like this dick head guy that only considers himself and crushes everyone in his path, that's not what being a leader is all about. It's about helping out others and looking for reasons to complement and build up. The biggest form of 'beta' or weakness to me are people who destructively criticize and think of reasons to belittle others.

Just because he uses good logic doesn't make it factual.

[mattvdh]

so science and medicine are incorrect??? low intensity cardio with depleted glycogen stores is not the best way to burn stored fats for energy..

damn, i need to start reading different books..

haha... which scientific and medical studies are you referring to man? You can burn fat with low, medium or high intensity. Obviously the higher the intensity the shorter amount of time is required. You want to deplete glycogen in the liver, but not the muscle reserves. Look at marathon runners, they have stickmen bodies with ET heads. Flat, depleted muscle tone. That's because they've induced catabolism from excessive exercise and burning out muscle glycogen. Look at sprinters, they're lean and fit and still maintain their muscularity. They also release test during an intense sprint, so I figure that must help as well.

[mattvdh]

Now you are just finding reason to argue. not even relevant to your OP. As base mentioned..do some homework and read about glycogen stores. You have plenty after a night of sleep. Just because this guy has been around forever does NOT mean he is right. Science has advanced in the sport of BB since this guy was in his prime. Your argument is that he is old and been there done it, therefore he HAS to be right. That's like saying the old guys who used to cycle without use of an AI or a PCT MUST be right because they got big and are not dead.

You obviously are moderately intelligent based on your posts but I say moderate because you are believing someone in a youtube video vs doing real research and checking the claims against medical research.

No, I'm saying the guy has been studying the subject for over 40 years and he knows his shit. Scientific studies change from day to day, but these guys have proven themselves long before scientist started noodling around and labeling everything and taking credit for it. Not to mention trying to spread certain ideas so certain companies could make a buck. These golden agers knew about things instinctively that scientists are still trying to prove/disprove to this day. Remember in the 80's and 90's when everything was low fat and scientists were certain that cholesterol and fats were the causes of all kinds of problems, well they were wrong, and Arnold said in an interview that 'they can say what they want and study or disprove our methods, but we were doing it, and we were living proof that it worked'. Everyone is so easily convinced of science and medicine these days...you know they used science to keep cigarette smoking legal in public places and disproved that it caused 2nd hand smoke for many years longer than necessary. Nazi's used science to prove that Aryan race was superior.

[mattvdh]

^ respect? Maybe you should show some, then you can talk about respect.

There's another loser video... This is a guy (Ric) who has done more worthless clips with Rich Piana (another idiot) that we want to see. All garbage and never actually talks about the topic. Tells people never to use hCG on cycle, keeps telling people to try this and that with no explanation. Seriously, the absolute worst idea ever was for him to take his thoughts to youtube.

Man, you're just a fan of randomness. Brother, welcome to the 60's... population: YOU!

Rich Piana is a cool guy, I don't see what your problem is. I enjoy their chats, they're one of the few channels that is honest about steroid use , so I respect that.

[mattvdh]

Just because he uses good logic doesn't make it factual.

No, but what do you consider 'factual', science and medicine? These guys proved it in the 60's and 70's with their bodies. Look at BBs before then, they were significantly smaller and less ripped, and it wasn't because of steroids . We all should know here that steroids without proper execution won't improve shit. The golden age guys set a standard that has yet to be challenged. They all had unique poses and bodies, today they all look the same and have no personality. And what are you referring to?

[JAB1]

Guess I will jump in. Im not here to argue as everyone has there opinion and facts of fitness/nutrition seem to change with tide and Im no pro on the subject. I personally havent done more that 12 mins of cardio per day in forever, and can cut to sub 10% by adjusting macros and cals in, so theres multiple ways to skin a cat, or in this arguement shed some fat. I will note that the OP has no knowledge of cutting for fights. The whole point is to cut to be as large as possible for a weight class, and its not fat your cutting going into a fight, its water to weigh in light, then carb up and hydrate to gain back strength/energy and weight. Of course it take some toll on strenght, etc, however if you know what you are doing it is a better option than going into a fight at normal weight against a bigger guy that cut weight. A guy that is 180 and cuts to 155 is better positioned against an oponnent in that class than a guy natty 180 agianst a 205er that cut to 180 and is at 90% due to the toll of the cut if done properly.

[< <Samson> >]

Everything I know is from personal experience and people that I have helped. . . . Worked just fine. . . So yeah, BS

Where's your Pic OP super stud?

[AD]

To start with, i dont think anyone should look at youtube for lessons in health sciences. Take everything they say on youtube with a tub of salt. Its nice to watch as entertainment. But for education, best get it from a textbook.

[panntastic]

Oh is this still going on?
Today's another day and the op is still pushing this respect crap oh well
This can go in the avoid pile with that thread in the Q&A by xxAndreaxx another ass hat

[RaginCajun]

haha... which scientific and medical studies are you referring to man? You can burn fat with low, medium or high intensity. Obviously the higher the intensity the shorter amount of time is required. You want to deplete glycogen in the liver, but not the muscle reserves. Look at marathon runners, they have stickmen bodies with ET heads. Flat, depleted muscle tone. That's because they've induced catabolism from excessive exercise and burning out muscle glycogen. Look at sprinters, they're lean and fit and still maintain their muscularity. They also release test during an intense sprint, so I figure that must help as well.

Sprinters and marathon runners have different types of muscle fibers. Slow twitch vs fast twitch.

Go do some more homework and go to your room NOW!

[RaginCajun]

Oh is this still going on?
Today's another day and the op is still pushing this respect crap oh well
This can go in the avoid pile with that thread in the Q&A by xxAndreaxx another ass hat

Hahaha, I remember that!

[gearbox]

just wait until austinite and I install that one in your basement!

muuuhahahahahahahahaha

If aust bails cause he has a new stripper gf I am in....

[austinite]

Glitter everywhere.............

[Honkey_Kong]

Yeah that's also very strange to me, why would they have to cut to make weight and then be able to pack on all the weight they can before the fight, seems like they've defeated the point. This weight classification stuff is very odd, and it's very unhealthy to cut weight so drastically. I think guys should just fight at whatever their lean weight is. I mean they're so concerned with weight but you can fight a guy who's much taller and has longer-reach, so this logic considers one advantage but dismisses another. I like the old style of UFC where they took all classes and weights and threw them in there, it's more realistic and more exciting. It was crazy to see a super technical guy with agility take apart a big heavy weight with massive power, like Gracie vs Severn. Or see a heavy weight pummel a smaller guy with speed. Plus head butts should be legal, there's too much wrestling on the ground and trying to get into just the right position to ground and pound. I want to see an open and savage fight where they don't hold back or have to live inside the box of UFC regulations. You can kill a guy with a punch to the temple just the same as the back of the head. It's weird stipulations.

You know, there is a reason why you're on a message forum bitching about how professional fighters shouldn't cut for a fight and not in the UFC kicking ass and taking names.

[panntastic]

You know, there is a reason why you're on a message forum bitching about how professional fighters shouldn't cut for a fight and not in the UFC kicking ass and taking names.

I'm taking names and telling mom!
Be warned

[Honkey_Kong]

I'm taking names and telling mom!
Be warned

Taddle tale.

I do agree with the dude in the video's stance on cardio before some weight training. Not because of the bro science shit he was spewing off though. I just can't give it 100% if I'm already tired from running.

[Prol]

Do you even know who Jerry Brainum is? Show some respect, the guy is a legend, he trained with Arnold. In one ear out the other syndrome... He's easily one of the most knowledgeable guys on the subject, he's been BB since '69, only recently stopped. Google his pictures.

You don't have to act like a pretentious tawt because people don't have your idols on pedestals .We call that being a C__T .Heres a clue its not cat .

[spywizard]

haha... which scientific and medical studies are you referring to man? You can burn fat with low, medium or high intensity. Obviously the higher the intensity the shorter amount of time is required. You want to deplete glycogen in the liver, but not the muscle reserves. Look at marathon runners, they have stickmen bodies with ET heads. Flat, depleted muscle tone. That's because they've induced catabolism from excessive exercise and burning out muscle glycogen. Look at sprinters, they're lean and fit and still maintain their muscularity. They also release test during an intense sprint, so I figure that must help as well.

It's what's taught at the University of Minnesota Sports Science program... i'm not quoting sources, you can google that yourself.. marathon athletes develop more mitochondria and more developed slow twitch muscle fibers, thus more glycogen stores..

with 300-400 cals stored in the liver and far less stored in the muscles, once it's gone, muscle amino are used including organ muscle is broken down for fuel for high intensity cardio..

thus my statement holding that low intensity max hrt rate being 100 (on average, I'm not figuring out your VO2max for ya) during the exertion holds that the majority of the fuel used during a period of time will be stored fats in most part due to depleted levels via the sleep cycle use of stored glycogen in the body..

or in the case of the body builder after 400-600 cals are burned during a training session, should conduct cardio at a max hrt rate of 90-100 bts per minute to insure that fats are used for fuel... 30-60 minutes post workout.. pre workout meal, it also helps with the removal of lactic acid buildup in the muscle. That is in connection to the context of this discussion ..

[spywizard]

Since we tend to over train (not all but many) this might help, source is pub med..

Abstract

The importance of carbohydrates as a fuel source during endurance exercise has been known for 60 years. With the advent of the muscle biopsy needle in the 1960s, it was determined that the major source of carbohydrate during exercise was the muscle glycogen stores. It was demonstrated that the capacity to exercise at intensities between 65 to 75% VO2max was related to the pre-exercise level of muscle glycogen, i.e. the greater the muscle glycogen stores, the longer the exercise time to exhaustion. Because of the paramount importance of muscle glycogen during prolonged, intense exercise, a considerable amount of research has been conducted in an attempt to design the best regimen to elevate the muscle's glycogen stores prior to competition and to determine the most effective means of rapidly replenishing the muscle glycogen stores after exercise. The rate-limiting step in glycogen synthesis is the transfer of glucose from uridine diphosphate-glucose to an amylose chain. This reaction is catalysed by the enzyme glycogen synthase which can exist in a glucose-6-phosphate-dependent, inactive form (D-form) and a glucose-6-phosphate-independent, active form (I-form). The conversion of glycogen synthase from one form to the other is controlled by phosphorylation-dephosphorylation reactions. The muscle glycogen concentration can vary greatly depending on training status, exercise routines and diet. The pattern of muscle glycogen resynthesis following exercise-induced depletion is biphasic. Following the cessation of exercise and with adequate carbohydrate consumption, muscle glycogen is rapidly resynthesised to near pre-exercise levels within 24 hours. Muscle glycogen then increases very gradually to above-normal levels over the next few days. Contributing to the rapid phase of glycogen resynthesis is an increase in the percentage of glycogen synthase I, an increase in the muscle cell membrane permeability to glucose, and an increase in the muscle's sensitivity to insulin . The slow phase of glycogen synthesis appears to be under the control of an intermediate form of glycogen synthase that is highly sensitive to glucose-6-phosphate activation. Conversion of the enzyme to this intermediate form may be due to the muscle tissue being constantly exposed to an elevated plasma insulin concentration subsequent to several days of high carbohydrate consumption. For optimal training performance, muscle glycogen stores must be replenished on a daily basis. For the average endurance athlete, a daily carbohydrate consumption of 500 to 600g is required. This results in a maximum glycogen storage of 80 to 100 mumol/g wet weight.

[spywizard]

On that note, does anyone know how to change your fast twitch muscle to slow twitch muscle density??
GW501516

and the effectiveness of the product I can attest to for sure..

[mattvdh]

To start with, i dont think anyone should look at youtube for lessons in health sciences. Take everything they say on youtube with a tub of salt. Its nice to watch as entertainment. But for education, best get it from a textbook.

depends which textbook. You could also say that you shouldn't be getting your information from a message board.

[mattvdh]

Since we tend to over train (not all but many) this might help, source is pub med..

Abstract

The importance of carbohydrates as a fuel source during endurance exercise has been known for 60 years. With the advent of the muscle biopsy needle in the 1960s, it was determined that the major source of carbohydrate during exercise was the muscle glycogen stores. It was demonstrated that the capacity to exercise at intensities between 65 to 75% VO2max was related to the pre-exercise level of muscle glycogen, i.e. the greater the muscle glycogen stores, the longer the exercise time to exhaustion. Because of the paramount importance of muscle glycogen during prolonged, intense exercise, a considerable amount of research has been conducted in an attempt to design the best regimen to elevate the muscle's glycogen stores prior to competition and to determine the most effective means of rapidly replenishing the muscle glycogen stores after exercise. The rate-limiting step in glycogen synthesis is the transfer of glucose from uridine diphosphate-glucose to an amylose chain. This reaction is catalysed by the enzyme glycogen synthase which can exist in a glucose-6-phosphate-dependent, inactive form (D-form) and a glucose-6-phosphate-independent, active form (I-form). The conversion of glycogen synthase from one form to the other is controlled by phosphorylation-dephosphorylation reactions. The muscle glycogen concentration can vary greatly depending on training status, exercise routines and diet. The pattern of muscle glycogen resynthesis following exercise-induced depletion is biphasic. Following the cessation of exercise and with adequate carbohydrate consumption, muscle glycogen is rapidly resynthesised to near pre-exercise levels within 24 hours. Muscle glycogen then increases very gradually to above-normal levels over the next few days. Contributing to the rapid phase of glycogen resynthesis is an increase in the percentage of glycogen synthase I, an increase in the muscle cell membrane permeability to glucose, and an increase in the muscle's sensitivity to insulin. The slow phase of glycogen synthesis appears to be under the control of an intermediate form of glycogen synthase that is highly sensitive to glucose-6-phosphate activation. Conversion of the enzyme to this intermediate form may be due to the muscle tissue being constantly exposed to an elevated plasma insulin concentration subsequent to several days of high carbohydrate consumption. For optimal training performance, muscle glycogen stores must be replenished on a daily basis. For the average endurance athlete, a daily carbohydrate consumption of 500 to 600g is required. This results in a maximum glycogen storage of 80 to 100 mumol/g wet weight.

That's all fine and good, however BB's aren't your typical athlete. A great deal of BB's/lifters are on a keto type diet. Sure you might loose some strength and endurance when in ketosis but you'll also shred up nicely.

[mattvdh]

On that note, does anyone know how to change your fast twitch muscle to slow twitch muscle density??
GW501516

and the effectiveness of the product I can attest to for sure..

lift heavy, become lazier in general.

[GrimmReaper]

I always figured calories burned are calories burned. before or after workout.

[mattvdh]

I always figured calories burned are calories burned. before or after workout.

yeah, so why are people adamant about exercising before breakfast? A lot of people say they workout before breakfast to utilize their bodies naturally fast metabolism, but for myself personally I find that my metabolism is at its fastest rate at around noon or so, after breakfast. I don't like working out first thing in the morning I've pulled many muscles doing this.

[tripmachine]

Really?!?!? If you're like this in RL I bet you're a blast at parties.

You are a FUKING IDIOT! Read the posts before when mattvdh said quit with the abbreviations.. Don't put dumb shit on this board like 'RL' and I'm sorry mattvdh.... 'RL' means 'Real Life.

jk evander ;b

[tripmachine]

so OP... post your pic please. (oops sorry picture*** i meant to spell out for you) SH!T I hope that abbreviation for 'picture' didn't throw you for a loop. Anyway back to what I was saying, it seems you KNOW the best way to do cardio and burn fat since you are stating it and defending ONLY your opinion which is some other old dudes opinion you have adopted. If you KNOW it all so well and like to fight so much about this shit please show me your 7% ripped body please. People will never like you here sharing your poor attitude and saying dumb shit to people who know quite a bit more than you and your granpa who molests you. lol sorry i'm now just so upset i wasted the time to read the entire thread! lol.

I believe you can do cardio waking up with NOTHING in your system or you could go do cardio after having a scoop of isolate.... same shit man, you are over thinking soooooo much you could have used all of this wasted time on working out and losing bf

[mattvdh]

"Fasted = Suboptimal
Fasted cardio is not optimal for reasons spanning beyond its questionable track record in research. There’s unavoidable positive metabolic synergy in fed (read: properly fueled) training, regardless of sport. This effect increases with intensity of training; even in untrained subjects, whatever fat oxidation is suppressed during training is compensated for in the recovery period by multiple mechanisms, many of which are not yet identified.

Athletes are known for their gravitation towards self-sacrifice, but some rely on hearsay, while others rely on science. Did you know that way back in the 60’s, it wasn’t uncommon for coaches to tell athletes in various sports to avoid drinking water before and during training? No comment needed. Good thing researchers questioned it, and enough data surfaced to validate claims of the skeptics. Sometimes counterproductive dogma indeed dies, thank goodness. However, the myths addressed here are admittedly more subtle than the water example. Even on suboptimal protocols, athletes all over the world still inch along, although not at optimal rates, and not necessarily to optimal levels."


Myths Under the Microscope Part 3: Discussion & Afterthoughts - AlanAragon.com - Fitness Based on Science & Experience

[Java Man]

Mattdvh = toilet = onetwonine

I would bet money this troll has no life and joins this forum using spoofed ip's and multiple emails. Same argumentative, fight picking troll. Has to be the same person.

[Java Man]

My ignore list is filling up quick lately.

[crazy mike]

Well guys I got here late and you all keep talking about old guys and what they don't know. I think I'll keep my pants on and sit this one out. This doesn't seem to be getting anywhere so as to help anyone and I've had my hand in too many of these lately.

That dog gone Tren might get me in trouble . ...crazy mike

[mattvdh]

Mattdvh = toilet = onetwonine

I would bet money this troll has no life and joins this forum using spoofed ip's and multiple emails. Same argumentative, fight picking troll. Has to be the same person.

Holy psychopath... Nobody is picking any fights, it's called a discussion. Holy over-reactive/hyper-sensitive/hyper-negative. And no, I do not have multiple accounts.

[mattvdh]

Well guys I got here late and you all keep talking about old guys and what they don't know. I think I'll keep my pants on and sit this one out. This doesn't seem to be getting anywhere so as to help anyone and I've had my hand in too many of these lately.

That dog gone Tren might get me in trouble . ...crazy mike

I just quoted Allan Aragon with an article from 2006. It's up to date, cited and peer reviewed.

[austinite]

[--->>405<<---]

u know they say that in the savannah river (where i work and live) they have 5' + 150lb + catfish!! i always wondered what one would look like!!!

[austinite]

LOL. I wonder if they fisted this one to catch it.