Guns and Ammo Thread

[Proximal]

Most definitely! Some guns are just plain sexy and others just cosmetically look appealing to me.

Had to find the balance between fashion and function. Most important thing though is RELIABILITY!! Otherwise it’s useless

Alright then! I’m officially hooked! My wife is going to be THRILLED, lol.

[Beetlegeuse]

... Again that sound of a racked shotgun can be all the deterrent you need....

That, IMHO, is a foolish tactic. For four reasons.

First, if the perp is somebody coming after me and mine with evil intentions and a firearm of his own, racking the shotgun is giving him advance warning that me and my gun are coming after him and his. I don't want a duel, I want to ambush the son of a bitch, so I'd sooner he not know I'm coming.

Second, that means you're deliberately walking into what might turn out to be a gunfight one round short of a full magazine. To borrow a line from film Jeremiah Johnson, Mother Beetlegeuse never raised such a foolish child. The only times you ever can have too much ammunition is when you're drowning or on fire.

Third, eventually everything breaks. MTBF. If you walk into the fight with a round already chambered, it's all the more likely that you'll get at least that one shot off before it malfunctions. I want that one certain round and hope to end the fight with it rather than risking my life on whether or not the shotgun will cycle the next time I try to rack it.

And fourth, I don't buy guns to impress anybody. On the other hand, that's exactly what I buy ammunition for. To make impressions. Deep, wide ones. If I have no choice but risk my life to it, I'd sooner risk it on the impressions that my ammunition will make than the impression my gun will. Hoping to frighten someone off with either the appearance or the sound of my gun is nowhere near close enough to 100% certainty for my taste.

If a bad guy threatens my life (or that of any member of my household), I'd prefer that their first indication that I'm armed be either muzzle flash or a sucking chest wound. That's playing the odds to my advantage.

Again guys, my dilemma is I can’t let a stray bullet exit our house, it will penetrate a neighbors....

Then I recommend you stick with less-than-lethal measures. Because you've already got your head in the wrong place for killing. If that moment should arise you'll still be thinking about the neighbor's safety and once you've shown the perp that you have a gun, a split second's hesitation can get you killed. When it comes to firearms, there are no half-measures. Either it does the business or it doesn't. That was the specific reason I posted the image of the young man spattered with bird shot. It doesn't matter what you're shooting, 12 gauge slugs or a .50 BMG, there will never be a 100% certainty that you'll achieve your objective so it's in the best interest of your survival that you front-load by choosing the deadliest combination of firearm and cartridge that you can afford and can operate competently. Because every step you take away from that design objective, the slimmer your odds of prevailing in the encounter become.

Look into OC sprays, electronic restraints and impact weapons. Because those pose no threat to the neighbors so neither you nor your missus will hesitate to employ them. And even if the perp takes them away from you, they're not likely to be able to kill you with them.

There's no shame in admitting that a firearm doesn't fit your condition, whether by circumstances or by constitution, but it would be a shame to get killed because you'd made some bad guy a gift of your firearm and he used it against you. And I can fair guarantee that he won't give a flying Philadelphia fuck whether it poses a threat to the neighbors as he's blowing your brains out with it.

[almostgone]

God no, AG, lol. I was joking. I got your point and really appreciated your blunt honesty. If I lived in a remote location or even where the homes had more distance between, this would have been a different thing all-together. Personally speaking, if I were very remote, I’m pretty sure I’d go above and beyond the law in my choices of weapons.

For our first 25 years we lived in a super-secure condominium, that never experienced a single break in of any unit, so the home approach is still relatively new.

This is an odd question, but already something struck me. Do you look at guns as in like, damn, that is good looking. Granted, quality is just that, not based on looks, but f me. Just some of the shot-guns I saw already, damn nice looking peaces of hardware. Is that one reason many of you have multiple guns or is it purely a practical decision based upon need.

It's a combo for me of the fitment of the mechanical components and the design ( ergonomics, functionality, balance) and that what makes a pistol for me.

Now in long guns, I have to factor in the all of the above plus if it is stocked in wood, there are some real f-in beauties out there.

Need of my quantity of guns....based on desire, love, lust, addiction. Call it what you will!

[SampsonandDelilah]

That, IMHO, is a foolish tactic. For four reasons.

First, if the perp is somebody coming after me and mine with evil intentions and a firearm of his own, racking the shotgun is giving him advance warning that me and my gun are coming after him and his. I don't want a duel, I want to ambush the son of a bitch, so I'd sooner he not know I'm coming.

Second, that means you're deliberately walking into what might turn out to be a gunfight one round short of a full magazine. To borrow a line from film Jeremiah Johnson, Mother Beetlegeuse never raised such a foolish child. The only times you ever can have too much ammunition is when you're drowning or on fire.

Third, eventually everything breaks. MTBF. If you walk into the fight with a round already chambered, it's all the more likely that you'll get at least that one shot off before it malfunctions. I want that one certain round and hope to end the fight with it rather than risking my life on whether or not the shotgun will cycle the next time I try to rack it.

And fourth, I don't buy guns to impress anybody. On the other hand, that's exactly what I buy ammunition for. To make impressions. Deep, wide ones. If I have no choice but risk my life to it, I'd sooner risk it on the impressions that my ammunition will make than the impression my gun will. Hoping to frighten someone off with either the appearance or the sound of my gun is nowhere near close enough to 100% certainty for my taste.

If a bad guy threatens my life (or that of any member of my household), I'd prefer that their first indication that I'm armed be either muzzle flash or a sucking chest wound. That's playing the odds to my advantage.




Then I recommend you stick with less-than-lethal measures. Because you've already got your head in the wrong place for killing. If that moment should arise you'll still be thinking about the neighbor's safety and once you've shown the perp that you have a gun, a split second's hesitation can get you killed. When it comes to firearms, there are no half-measures. Either it does the business or it doesn't. That was the specific reason I posted the image of the young man spattered with bird shot. It doesn't matter what you're shooting, 12 gauge slugs or a .50 BMG, there will never be a 100% certainty that you'll achieve your objective so it's in the best interest of your survival that you front-load by choosing the deadliest combination of firearm and cartridge that you can afford and can operate competently. Because every step you take away from that design objective, the slimmer your odds of prevailing in the encounter become.

Look into OC sprays, electronic restraints and impact weapons. Because those pose no threat to the neighbors so neither you nor your missus will hesitate to employ them. And even if the perp takes them away from you, they're not likely to be able to kill you with them.

There's no shame in admitting that a firearm doesn't fit your condition, whether by circumstances or by constitution, but it would be a shame to get killed because you'd made some bad guy a gift of your firearm and he used it against you. And I can fair guarantee that he won't give a flying Philadelphia fuck whether it poses a threat to the neighbors as he's blowing your brains out with it.

Lots of logic here and I’m certainly not advocating a pump shotgun for home defense based solely off of that sound. However if you can avoid a gun battle and scare off a would be intruder simply by making a distinct noise, I’m all for it. Truth be told, I’m too tired and you’re too smart to try and push my suggestions.
What I can’t look past though is the argument that a 12 gauge pump shotgun in all if it’s beautiful simplicities isn’t an ideal home defense weapon. Also, just because a bad guy doesn’t give a Philadelphia flying fuck about collateral damage doesn’t mean we have to stoop to that level.

And if you can have a weapon that you deem cosmetically appealingly while still “getting the job done” I just don’t see any harm in that.

I personally own more firearms than I care to admit and I definitely have my favorites. The characteristics that determine my “favs” are based on function, fit and fashion. Some I consider works or art. My G19 sure ain’t as pretty as my Colt 1911, but I’m taking the Glock every time based on my faith in it performing its duty reliably every time.

You’re the last guy I feel like debating Beetle, you’re sharp as razor, witty as hell, know you’re shit and have my utmost respect.

Carry on...

Lots of good choices Prox and at the end of the day, it’s yours to make

[Proximal]

Beetle, just PMed you.

You could be right and I appreciate the fact that you’re not judgmental of me. I’ve got thinking to do and options to explore. Even with a bum shoulder I have trained quite a bit with hand to hand, blunt weapons and knives, still have some skills and tenacity, thus think I’m not going to be a total pushover, at least for a few more years, if and when my body says no-way.

If my wife were the fragile type I’d over-rule her, but she’s willing to die for her cause. I’m sure that is quite a foreign point of view to some, but what’s cool here, is that we all try to understand and don’t disrespect each other’s deep rooted values. You guys really are helping, this is going to happen one way or another.

[Proximal]

Jesus guys, please NO, I mean No arguments or animosity on my dumb ass questions! Please, ok?

You are all making valid points and I fully understand all of them.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Oh man Prox and Beetle. There’s zero coming from my end. Beetle is the real deal and I certainly wasn’t trying to be cross. Apologies if I came across that way. More of a agree to disagree.

I’m drama free and not looking for an argument especially with someone whom I revere like Beetle.

Cold day when I try and argue with him!

Meant no disrespect at all and apologies if it came across that way.

That’s not me at all

Jesus guys, please NO, I mean No arguments or animosity on my dumb ass questions! Please, ok?

You are all making valid points and I fully understand all of them.

[Ernst]

My first choice in home defense is my Mossberg 590A1 12ga pump-action shotgun loaded with Federal Tactical 00 Buckshot shells. I've had this shotgun for years and have done at least a few classes with it. I'm very comfortable with it and it goes boom every. damn. time. no. matter. what.

And yeah, I keep the chamber empty. If I'm being really honest it's mostly because I was trained that way.

Very soon, when all this quarantine crap is over, I'm hoping to get myself a Benelli M4.

[GearHeaded]

My first choice in home defense is my Mossberg 590A1 12ga pump-action shotgun loaded with Federal Tactical 00 Buckshot shells. I've had this shotgun for years and have done at least a few classes with it. I'm very comfortable with it and it goes boom every. damn. time. no. matter. what.

And yeah, I keep the chamber empty. If I'm being really honest it's mostly because I was trained that way.

Very soon, when all this quarantine crap is over, I'm hoping to get myself a Benelli M4.

I'm pretty good with a shotgun as well.. I prefer fighting just man to man naked in a cage with an ax though

00 buck loaded up with slugs in the sling I can load when needed . still would rather just ax the fuck out of an enemy though


^thats a joke by the way .. yes I'm good with a Glock and a shotgun.. but the battle is mainly spiritual. against the principalities and powers that want to enslave us.. battle agant our own vices and sin as well

[C27H40O3]

That, IMHO, is a foolish tactic. For four reasons.

First, if the perp is somebody coming after me and mine with evil intentions and a firearm of his own, racking the shotgun is giving him advance warning that me and my gun are coming after him and his. I don't want a duel, I want to ambush the son of a bitch, so I'd sooner he not know I'm coming.

Second, that means you're deliberately walking into what might turn out to be a gunfight one round short of a full magazine. To borrow a line from film Jeremiah Johnson, Mother Beetlegeuse never raised such a foolish child. The only times you ever can have too much ammunition is when you're drowning or on fire.

Third, eventually everything breaks. MTBF. If you walk into the fight with a round already chambered, it's all the more likely that you'll get at least that one shot off before it malfunctions. I want that one certain round and hope to end the fight with it rather than risking my life on whether or not the shotgun will cycle the next time I try to rack it.

And fourth, I don't buy guns to impress anybody. On the other hand, that's exactly what I buy ammunition for. To make impressions. Deep, wide ones. If I have no choice but risk my life to it, I'd sooner risk it on the impressions that my ammunition will make than the impression my gun will. Hoping to frighten someone off with either the appearance or the sound of my gun is nowhere near close enough to 100% certainty for my taste.

If a bad guy threatens my life (or that of any member of my household), I'd prefer that their first indication that I'm armed be either muzzle flash or a sucking chest wound. That's playing the odds to my advantage.




Then I recommend you stick with less-than-lethal measures. Because you've already got your head in the wrong place for killing. If that moment should arise you'll still be thinking about the neighbor's safety and once you've shown the perp that you have a gun, a split second's hesitation can get you killed. When it comes to firearms, there are no half-measures. Either it does the business or it doesn't. That was the specific reason I posted the image of the young man spattered with bird shot. It doesn't matter what you're shooting, 12 gauge slugs or a .50 BMG, there will never be a 100% certainty that you'll achieve your objective so it's in the best interest of your survival that you front-load by choosing the deadliest combination of firearm and cartridge that you can afford and can operate competently. Because every step you take away from that design objective, the slimmer your odds of prevailing in the encounter become.

Look into OC sprays, electronic restraints and impact weapons. Because those pose no threat to the neighbors so neither you nor your missus will hesitate to employ them. And even if the perp takes them away from you, they're not likely to be able to kill you with them.

There's no shame in admitting that a firearm doesn't fit your condition, whether by circumstances or by constitution, but it would be a shame to get killed because you'd made some bad guy a gift of your firearm and he used it against you. And I can fair guarantee that he won't give a flying Philadelphia fuck whether it poses a threat to the neighbors as he's blowing your brains out with it.

He probably means that if there is a possibly of scaring away an intruder with the racking of a slide, it might save you hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees and punitive damage judgements if you kill a guy and some DA wants to make an example of you by trying to send you to prison, and a tv lawyer calls the injured/dead guy’s family and convinces them to sue you for all you got and then some.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[C27H40O3]

My first choice in home defense is my Mossberg 590A1 12ga pump-action

And yeah, I keep the chamber empty. If I'm being really honest it's mostly because I was trained that way.

Why keep an empty chamber? You could always load a full magazine plus one in the chamber, and still rack the slide if you want. This leaves you the option.

The sound of the unspent cartridge hitting the floor will prove you are loaded.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ernst]

Why keep an empty chamber? You could always load a full magazine plus one in the chamber, and still rack the slide if you want. This leaves you the option.

The sound of the unspent cartridge hitting the floor will prove you are loaded.

Well, trained by cops I am used to some variation of what they call 'Cruiser Ready' or 'Cruiser Safe.' Racking the slide is just natural to picking the thing up, at least to me. It would be weird to me and require re-training to use the safety instead of the slide.

That and shotguns aren't really drop safe. (Yes, I know it's highly unlikely that one would go off that they are engineered blah blah but.... see 0:38 https://youtu.be/Y9rU0tZwb6s )

With 8 shells in the tube and 6 more riding in a sidesaddle I'm not feeling like capacity is a big issue for home defense.

[Proximal]

Alright, drinking, but still clear. Considering I have a 12shot magazine of bean bag bullets in a semiautomatic shot gun at close range, this won’t drop somebody?

[Proximal]

I will take care of business when they are down. Am I REALLY so far off?

[GearHeaded]

Alright, drinking, but still clear. Considering I have a 12shot magazine of bean bag bullets in a semiautomatic shot gun at close range, this won’t drop somebody?

there are certain times for mercy . which is most the time .. but there are also times you need the slugs loaded up and ready to go to crush the head of the enemy

[Ernst]

Alright, drinking, but still clear. Considering I have a 12shot magazine of bean bag bullets in a semiautomatic shot gun at close range, this won’t drop somebody?

You live in California. A 12-shot magazine is a felony punishable by one year in prison IIRC (unless you owned it before the ban or purchased it during "freedom week" which we know is not the case).

No sane person is going to stand around and take beanbags or rubber buckshot out of a 12 gauge. If I hear a shotgun being racked I'm fcuking outta there anyway, not gonna stick around and see what it's loaded with.

Since you're so fixated on this idea of beanbags I'll share: I have an old friend we'll call Mike, because that's his real name, who was shot by a beanbag shotgun round, courtesy of a corrections officer. Solid torso hit in the upper back. He said it hurt like hell and he was knocked down and it left a huge bruise but it was not enough to take him out of the fight. Physics says it does not have the energy to knock down so we know that was all psychological anyway.

But you should look to history for cues. You think the guy who breaks into your house or threatens your family is going to be sane and sober? Is he going to be alone? How about a couple of Moro Warriors drugged out of their minds instead?

You hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Ideally none of my guns will ever fire a shot outside of the range.

If you're so determined not to use anything that penetrates so much as to break the skin just get a can of bear spray or something. Keep it next to a hiking pack so you have a leg to stand on in court when they try to sue you later on for damages.

[SampsonandDelilah]

You live in California. A 12-shot magazine is a felony punishable by one year in prison IIRC (unless you owned it before the ban or purchased it during "freedom week" which we know is not the case).

No sane person is going to stand around and take beanbags or rubber buckshot out of a 12 gauge. If I hear a shotgun being racked I'm fcuking outta there anyway, not gonna stick around and see what it's loaded with.

Since you're so fixated on this idea of beanbags I'll share: I have an old friend we'll call Mike, because that's his real name, who was shot by a beanbag shotgun round, courtesy of a corrections officer. Solid torso hit in the upper back. He said it hurt like hell and he was knocked down and it left a huge bruise but it was not enough to take him out of the fight. Physics says it does not have the energy to knock down so we know that was all psychological anyway.

But you should look to history for cues. You think the guy who breaks into your house or threatens your family is going to be sane and sober? Is he going to be alone? How about a couple of Moro Warriors drugged out of their minds instead?

You hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Ideally none of my guns will ever fire a shot outside of the range.

If you're so determined not to use anything that penetrates so much as to break the skin just get a can of bear spray or something. Keep it next to a hiking pack so you have a leg to stand on in court when they try to sue you later on for damages.

Really well written and I agree. If non lethal is the choice, a bear spray can the size of a fire extinguisher is an awesome choice. Just don’t spray yourself or your backup

[GearHeaded]

Really well written and I agree. If non lethal is the choice, a bear spray can the size of a fire extinguisher is an awesome choice. Just don’t spray yourself or your backup

nothing wrong with an old fashioned punch in the face .. don't need the bear spray if you want "non lethal" just bring back the old fashioned punch in the face

[GearHeaded]

I'd rather "kill an intruder" by simply directing his mind not to commit his crime in the first place .. to love and cherish his neighbor and change his ways ...
yeah yeah , I got 50 guns and 10000 rounds of ammo .. but who cares. I want my neighbor to be saved not by force and impediment. death.. just a slight punch in the face and a wake up call

[GearHeaded]

I'd rather "kill an intruder" by simply directing his mind not to commit his crime in the first place .. to love and cherish his neighbor and change his ways ...
yeah yeah , I got 50 guns and 10000 rounds of ammo .. but who cares. I want my neighbor to be saved not by force and impediment. death.. just a slight punch in the face and a wake up call

but I still got the slugs, hollow points, and everything else all loaded up.. I'm not going to not protect my family. this is our 2nd amendment rights ... which we never need to use.. heck "we the people" waste our ammo at the gun range for fun. we never hurt a soul. but its our right to protect our family and neighbors if need be .

much rather use our minds then our guns

[Proximal]

You live in California. A 12-shot magazine is a felony punishable by one year in prison IIRC (unless you owned it before the ban or purchased it during "freedom week" which we know is not the case).

No sane person is going to stand around and take beanbags or rubber buckshot out of a 12 gauge. If I hear a shotgun being racked I'm fcuking outta there anyway, not gonna stick around and see what it's loaded with.

Since you're so fixated on this idea of beanbags I'll share: I have an old friend we'll call Mike, because that's his real name, who was shot by a beanbag shotgun round, courtesy of a corrections officer. Solid torso hit in the upper back. He said it hurt like hell and he was knocked down and it left a huge bruise but it was not enough to take him out of the fight. Physics says it does not have the energy to knock down so we know that was all psychological anyway.

But you should look to history for cues. You think the guy who breaks into your house or threatens your family is going to be sane and sober? Is he going to be alone? How about a couple of Moro Warriors drugged out of their minds instead?

You hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Ideally none of my guns will ever fire a shot outside of the range.

If you're so determined not to use anything that penetrates so much as to break the skin just get a can of bear spray or something. Keep it next to a hiking pack so you have a leg to stand on in court when they try to sue you later on for damages.

You all flatter me with your sincerity which is what I ask for and need.

Upper back? He’s retreating, you shoot lower back. Upper back, you hit scapula, thick bone, minimizes impact, go lower or hit glutes/hams to drop them.

Fine, I’ll do time and live. But, don’t kill neighbors.

Look, I’m saying 12 shots, close range. I will handle the rest/ do I drop to a smaller magazine, fine. Is the Semi-auto quicker than the pump action?

Playing the odds here, the breakins here are not frequent and don’t happen while occupied.

You all have given me your most honest opinions, think I know where I’m going with this.

[Ernst]

Semi is quicker than pump but a lot of semis won't cycle specialty or low-recoil ammo. Something to be aware of. It may not work with beanbags.

Sticking with a shotgun with beanbags I'd actually use the exact setup I have now, a Mossberg 590A1 pump-action.

The tubular magazine beneath the 20" barrel holds eight shells, plus one in the chamber if you keep it loaded or top off. Worth noting that specialty ammo could also vary in shell length and possibly decrease that capacity. To get more shells in the tubular magazine that is common to shotguns means a longer gun which makes it a lot more unwieldy in a tactical situation.

Any semi-auto shotgun in CA with a detachable box magazine and you're quickly wading into 'assault weapon' territory by the Cali Dems definition. You could end up a convicted felon and do more time than the guy(s) who broke in! Ain't Cali great?
Besides, most shotshell mags aren't very high capacity anyway because shotshells are bulky and heavy.

And yeah, Mike was shot in the back... during a prison riot. I doubt they cared who they hit or where they hit them. I also doubt he was 'retreating.'

One more tip: Stay away from the Kel-Tec KSG. I know it looks tempting but it's flaming garbage.

[Ernst]

Proxy wants to sell this to the wife as a 'less-lethal' option and then hide a bunch of buckshot shells in the garage in case shyt goes sideways.

Am I right?

[Proximal]

Ernst, I sincerely appreciate your time. If there were gun stores available to handle these questions, I’d do that ( the stores available here, have asked that you come in only to purchase a specific gun). But still, my gut feeling is that the volume of knowledge here, plus everyone’s frank & direct opinions, holds more value to me.

Regarding where your friend was shot, my point is, is that I know my anatomy. A bean-bag on a scapula is not ideal for pain (nor would I stab someone there with a knife, it’s too hard and not enough soft tissue). Hell, not even a bat; that scapula is a tough mf’r. Maybe a hammer, but I digress . . . .

If I were trying to be lethal or incapacitating, I will be very deliberate in my choices of targets. If I do purchase a gun, I know my practice habits, they can be fanatical. Beetle posted a video up several posts of an ER doctor lecturing on gun shot locations, depth of penetration, types of bullets, trajectories, all leading to different rates of bleeding and the possibility of death (if all the above are spot on). It all made crystal clear sense to me and I was in complete understanding, except when discussing different bullets.

Regarding my choice on this. My wife is a strong anti-gun individual, but when we first finished construction and moved in, I hadn’t hired security yet. Our house was broken into while we were at work and she was the one that walked into the house and realized this. Her opinion regarding a home gun is more understanding now.

In my very rudimentary research into ammunition, my initial searches came up with nothing that would not penetrate several walls. That puts my friends and neighbors at risk. Our personal belief is that we have no problem protecting ourselves, but draw the line at deliberately choosing to put friends or others in harms way. Beetle posted something that seemed to indicate that buck shot was not a logical choice and apparently 00 buck shot still penetrates and passes through several walls.

Would I likely have other ammunition, sure. Would I likely have more guns, yep. My naive (and I understand it’s naive) train of thought would be is if I can briefly incapacitate the intruder with multiple bean bags, I can then be in a better position to be lethal in a no miss situation. Or I have no qualms about other manners (as I said, I know my anatomy very well).

I just want to thank you all again. I know a shit load more now than I had before. I have another resource I will ask, but right now he’s a little more concerned with current events, so the timing is poor. My goal is when I do step into a gun store, I can come in with intelligent questions & make intelligent decisions.

Your advice is appreciated a LOT.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Ernst, I sincerely appreciate your time. If there were gun stores available to handle these questions, I’d do that ( the stores available here, have asked that you come in only to purchase a specific gun). But still, my gut feeling is that the volume of knowledge here, plus everyone’s frank & direct opinions, holds more value to me.

Regarding where your friend was shot, my point is, is that I know my anatomy. A bean-bag on a scapula is not ideal for pain (nor would I stab someone there with a knife, it’s too hard and not enough soft tissue). Hell, not even a bat; that scapula is a tough mf’r. Maybe a hammer, but I digress . . . .

If I were trying to be lethal or incapacitating, I will be very deliberate in my choices of targets. If I do purchase a gun, I know my practice habits, they can be fanatical. Beetle posted a video up several posts of an ER doctor lecturing on gun shot locations, depth of penetration, types of bullets, trajectories, all leading to different rates of bleeding and the possibility of death (if all the above are spot on). It all made crystal clear sense to me and I was in complete understanding, except when discussing different bullets.

Regarding my choice on this. My wife is a strong anti-gun individual, but when we first finished construction and moved in, I hadn’t hired security yet. Our house was broken into while we were at work and she was the one that walked into the house and realized this. Her opinion regarding a home gun is more understanding now.

In my very rudimentary research into ammunition, my initial searches came up with nothing that would not penetrate several walls. That puts my friends and neighbors at risk. Our personal belief is that we have no problem protecting ourselves, but draw the line at deliberately choosing to put friends or others in harms way. Beetle posted something that seemed to indicate that buck shot was not a logical choice and apparently 00 buck shot still penetrates and passes through several walls.

Would I likely have other ammunition, sure. Would I likely have more guns, yep. My naive (and I understand it’s naive) train of thought would be is if I can briefly incapacitate the intruder with multiple bean bags, I can then be in a better position to be lethal in a no miss situation. Or I have no qualms about other manners (as I said, I know my anatomy very well).

I just want to thank you all again. I know a shit load more now than I had before. I have another resource I will ask, but right now he’s a little more concerned with current events, so the timing is poor. My goal is when I do step into a gun store, I can come in with intelligent questions & make intelligent decisions.

Your advice is appreciated a LOT.

You’re such a good dude Prox. This like all things will have varying amounts of logic, statistics, anecdotes and most importantly...opinion! Like all things in life, you’ll never get all sides to agree! Anything is better than nothing and just being mentally prepared in your own awareness of your surroundings, recognizing and acknowledging the potential for threats and being willing to advance on those threats is so much more important then having your head buried in the sand. I’m sorry that you and your wife were so rudely awoken but the fact is that you were and you’re now both better equipped. What and how you choose to defend your castle is a personal choice and I have NO doubts you and the Mrs will make the best choice for YOUR home and YOUR comfort level!


(Side note...you saw what Salamacca did with a cast iron skillet full of hot grease on BCS, right? )

You rock brother

[Proximal]

You’re such a good dude Prox. This like all things will have varying amounts of logic, statistics, anecdotes and most importantly...opinion! Like all things in life, you’ll never get all sides to agree! Anything is better than nothing and just being mentally prepared in your own awareness of your surroundings, recognizing and acknowledging the potential for threats and being willing to advance on those threats is so much more important then having your head buried in the sand. I’m sorry that you and your wife were so rudely awoken but the fact is that you were and you’re now both better equipped. What and how you choose to defend your castle is a personal choice and I have NO doubts you and the Mrs will make the best choice for YOUR home and YOUR comfort level!


(Side note...you saw what Salamacca did with a cast iron skillet full of hot grease on BCS, right? )

You rock brother

TY, but honestly, I have a huge base of initial information to work off of now because of all you guys. This forum is so filled with knowledge on everything and everyone willing to help others. If the outside world were like this place, we’d all be better off.

Regarding the robbery, I was the idiot that blew it in my procrastination of getting an alarm system (we were the only home without a sign). Thank God she didn’t enter when the robbery was happening though.

If that was in season 5, I hadn’t yet, but I can only imagine.

I’m hoping that you’re hanging in there, because all of this is such complete b.s. as compared to your situation.

[SampsonandDelilah]

TY, but honestly, I have a huge base of initial information to work off of now because of all you guys. This forum is so filled with knowledge on everything and everyone willing to help others. If the outside world were like this place, we’d all be better off.

Regarding the robbery, I was the idiot that blew it in my procrastination of getting an alarm system (we were the only home without a sign). Thank God she didn’t enter when the robbery was happening though.

If that was in season 5, I hadn’t yet, but I can only imagine.

I’m hoping that you’re hanging in there, because all of this is such complete b.s. as compared to your situation.

Yes to season 5...oh buddy the best is yet to come!

Regarding your break in, alarm or not, no asshole ever has that right. You did nothing wrong. The motherfucker that did that is in the wrong. And yes, thank god they were gone when she got home.

Agreed that the world needs to embrace the principles of this forum, if only.

I’m doing good brother, day 2 is in the bag. One day at a time.

We can connect on my thread. Keep this motherfucker going for guns and ammo!! Boom!

Best


(Laughing because my comment has three threads wrapped into one. It’s all bleeding together, lol)

Stay on track damnit!

[j2048b]

Ernst, I sincerely appreciate your time. If there were gun stores available to handle these questions, I’d do that ( the stores available here, have asked that you come in only to purchase a specific gun). But still, my gut feeling is that the volume of knowledge here, plus everyone’s frank & direct opinions, holds more value to me.

Regarding where your friend was shot, my point is, is that I know my anatomy. A bean-bag on a scapula is not ideal for pain (nor would I stab someone there with a knife, it’s too hard and not enough soft tissue). Hell, not even a bat; that scapula is a tough mf’r. Maybe a hammer, but I digress . . . .

If I were trying to be lethal or incapacitating, I will be very deliberate in my choices of targets. If I do purchase a gun, I know my practice habits, they can be fanatical. Beetle posted a video up several posts of an ER doctor lecturing on gun shot locations, depth of penetration, types of bullets, trajectories, all leading to different rates of bleeding and the possibility of death (if all the above are spot on). It all made crystal clear sense to me and I was in complete understanding, except when discussing different bullets.

Regarding my choice on this. My wife is a strong anti-gun individual, but when we first finished construction and moved in, I hadn’t hired security yet. Our house was broken into while we were at work and she was the one that walked into the house and realized this. Her opinion regarding a home gun is more understanding now.

In my very rudimentary research into ammunition, my initial searches came up with nothing that would not penetrate several walls. That puts my friends and neighbors at risk. Our personal belief is that we have no problem protecting ourselves, but draw the line at deliberately choosing to put friends or others in harms way. Beetle posted something that seemed to indicate that buck shot was not a logical choice and apparently 00 buck shot still penetrates and passes through several walls.

Would I likely have other ammunition, sure. Would I likely have more guns, yep. My naive (and I understand it’s naive) train of thought would be is if I can briefly incapacitate the intruder with multiple bean bags, I can then be in a better position to be lethal in a no miss situation. Or I have no qualms about other manners (as I said, I know my anatomy very well).

I just want to thank you all again. I know a shit load more now than I had before. I have another resource I will ask, but right now he’s a little more concerned with current events, so the timing is poor. My goal is when I do step into a gun store, I can come in with intelligent questions & make intelligent decisions.

Your advice is appreciated a LOT.

Where did u get the bean bag ammo? Id like to grab some as well, if in a panic id rather have bean bags to drop someone then miss with buck shot and kill a good neighbor.... Commiefornia blows goats

Salt rock hurts like a mofo too just sayin

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[almostgone]

Where did u get the bean bag ammo? Id like to grab some as well, if in a panic id rather have bean bags to drop someone then miss with buck shot and kill a good neighbor.... Commiefornia blows goats

Salt rock hurts like a mofo too just sayin

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

It's available online and in some gun shops.

[i_SLAM_cougars]

Where did u get the bean bag ammo? Id like to grab some as well, if in a panic id rather have bean bags to drop someone then miss with buck shot and kill a good neighbor.... Commiefornia blows goats

Salt rock hurts like a mofo too just sayin

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Buckshot kill them neighbor? You guys live in apartment building made of quarter inch dry wall or something?

[Proximal]

E-mailed Mossberg & also Benelli my questions & concerns. Gonna take some time for a response due to high volume. Let’s see if they provide some good info. Dude there’s some crazy semiautomatic shot guns out there, holy shit! TY again all!

[SampsonandDelilah]

https://www.guns.com/news/2015/09/17...ver-penetratio

[Proximal]

https://www.guns.com/news/2015/09/17...ver-penetratio

TY! My mind has already been considering different variables that he brought up. And he validated some of my thoughts.

This is getting interesting, hope the gun makers have good news as in they can fire the bean bag rounds.

[almostgone]

TY! My mind has already been considering different variables that he brought up. And he validated some of my thoughts.

This is getting interesting, hope the gun makers have good news as in they can fire the bean bag rounds.

They're designed to be fired from a regular smoothbore shotgun, Prox.

[Proximal]

Appreciate that AG, hopefully they won’t laugh at me, lol. I’m glad you guys haven’t.

Unfortunately, I’ve been bitten by some sort of bug with all of this searching; somethings coming out of all of this. Hell I needed a past-time for retirement, just might have found it.

[almostgone]

Appreciate that AG, hopefully they won’t laugh at me, lol. I’m glad you guys haven’t.

Unfortunately, I’ve been bitten by some sort of bug with all of this searching; somethings coming out of all of this. Hell I needed a past-time for retirement, just might have found it.

I'm thinking semi-autos may be finicky about functioning properly and a pump would be more reliable. However, the manufacturer can advise you on that.

[SampsonandDelilah]

I'm thinking semi-autos may be finicky about functioning properly and a pump would be more reliable. However, the manufacturer can advise you on that.

I’ve owned them all, autos have come a loooooomg way. The new Benelli’s, Berettas are unreal (own them both) but they can still be finicky (especially with low brass and low recoil rounds) the percentages are microscopic when you pay the money but why risk it when pumps are so reliable and way more affordable

Here’s a small glimpse of my closet...

[Proximal]

I’ve owned them all, autos have come a loooooomg way. The new Benelli’s, Berettas are unreal (own them both) but they can still be finicky (especially with low brass and low recoil rounds) the percentages are microscopic when you pay the money but why risk it when pumps are so reliable and way more affordable

Here’s a small glimpse of my closet...

Why, that’s a fine looking closet.

Yes, the reading I’ve done supports the reliability of the pump action, but as S&D said, suggests there has been a lot of progress with the semiautomatics. I was thinking semiautomatic simply for speed, since I’ll need quantity of beanbags to possibly do the trick.

Let’s see what they advise. TY guys.

[Proximal]

They're designed to be fired from a regular smoothbore shotgun, Prox.

Some on my favorite books that it’s time to reread.

Thanks again AG. Benelli said I can fire beanbag bullets from any of their tactical, pump action shotguns. I’m guessing then the same will apply to Remington and Mossberg. I’m also then assuming that makes them smoothbore (yeah, I’m a know nothing).

I’ll check, then when things return to normal, do some searching/purchasing. There is NOT a shortage of gun stores around here, lol.

Damn, the semi auto seemed so nice, watched a YouTube video where a guy fired off 20 shots in no time flat.

[almostgone]

Benelli is good stuff, a tad expensive, buy I don't recall ever hearing of someone having a quality issue, although I'm sure there is an occurrence or two.

Mossies are good. Remington work well. I have an 1100 (semi-auto) that is ~ 40 years old. Got it in my teens for dove hunting and it has never given me any problems. A Remington 870 is a solid pump. Go ahead and just window shop when you can. Don't be shy about asking to handle the shotguns and see what fits your length of pull, works with your shoulder issue, etc.

Again, Benellis are NICE! Just depends on what your budget is for a reliable shotgun. Just for fun, price a Benneli Supernova vs. a Benelli M4 shotgun Keep in mind the Supernova is pump and the Benelli M4 shotgun is a semi-auto.

https://www.benelliusa.com/shotguns/...tical-shotguns

I'm not sure if there are any choke recommendations for beanbag rounds like there is with slugs. Regarding slugs, I've always used rifled slugs with a smoothbore barrel and modified choke. Some guy swear you can shoot slugs through a full choke.all day, every day. I just go by what the old farts taught me when I was young. Never have sat down and measured the choke I.D. vs. slug O.D.

Generally you're not looking for long range accuracy when shooting slugs ( in most situations....hunting, etc).

...and that might have been too much info.