Greater Israel: A Dream Closer to Fulfillment

[palme]

1) You're wrong on this one . . . I do it all the time. And I find that as long as we can keep the focus on trying to understand each other, then both sides end up learning what the other is all about. Add a bit of civility to the conversation, and you can end up as friends . . .
. . . But for sure, if both sides are convinced that discussing the issues are useless, then it just may well be.

2) Well, I'm glad that folks are more tolerant of honest differences of opinion on this board and less given to evicting heretics. Some of us find differing views to be rather interesting, and nothing to be afraid of.

I rather suspect that if you were God, there would be a whole lot less variation of things in nature . . .

--Tock

Ok...go talk sence into usama and arafat, good luck bro!

I have no tolerance for terrorists or nazi's, why you do i dont understand either? Islam is against gay's and so are the nazi's, they would kill you if they knew what you are.

I can never be god, but if i were some people would get sent to hell for sure and people like you and other good bros would be blessed and granted entry to paradise (it's raining men tock...). As for variation, wouldnt you like the terrorists gone? Or the nazif*cks? Maybe you like this world? I for sure dont!

[OGPackin]

You cant discuss with a fundamentalist Tock. They have their point of view and if you dont follow your basiclly dead to them.

Im suprised you guys let militiaguy be on here with a avatar like that, but i am also suprised Frommel is with that name and avatar (ive been since i first saw him). If it was my forum they would both be gone along time ago.

I agree with u 100% palme on both points. Im also offended by both their avatars.

I also want to add, IMO u cant reason with a biggot, racist, anti-semite or any other fanatical group. People like that are to closed minded and dont listen to reason. To make my point all u have to do is go back and read a few of the outragous accusations posted on here. When proof was asked to back up their beliefs of course non was given because there isn any.

OG

[OGPackin]

Militiaguy, is this correct?
-Tock

Tock, if u didnt know this. Then i really ask that u go back and re-read this WHOLE post. Thats how this whole discussion started. Bouncer outed M'guy and what his avatar means. Then it got somewhat side tracked with bdtr's comments and others, urs included.

Tock i also ask that u go back and read up on ur history. Because some of ur comments have been off to say the least. Not because we disagree, but because ur facts have been wrong.

OG

[Tock]

1) Ok...go talk sence into usama and arafat, good luck bro!

2) I have no tolerance for terrorists or nazi's, why you do i dont understand either? Islam is against gay's and so are the nazi's, they would kill you if they knew what you are.

3) I can never be god, but if i were some people would get sent to hell for sure and people like you and other good bros would be blessed and granted entry to paradise (it's raining men tock...).

4) As for variation, wouldnt you like the terrorists gone? Or the nazif*cks?

5) Maybe you like this world? I for sure dont!

1) That would be a challenge, for sure. However, IMHO some of what Arafat and the Palestinians gripe about is valid. Both parties on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict have been wrong, as well as wronged. The folks that prevent a solution are the ones who say one side is 100% right and the other is 100% wrong. You start mentioning stuff like this, keep a level head, and opposing sides can make progress toward compromise.
. . . But idealogues like Osama, there's a horse of a different color. He'd be as easy to reason with as some US preachers. Have to do some preparation to deal with any of them . . .

2) I have no tolerance for people who bomb or threaten to bomb or hurt other folks. Period. However, people who do not commit acts of terrorism are still free to voice their sympathy and support for them. There's a fine line there, but every person must have their right to free speech protected, no matter how vile that speech may be.
My support for free speech is 100% because I know there are places in the US (like Arkansas) where it is against the law to criticize the Bible in public, or to organize groups to work against laws prohibiting nudist colonies. Criticising the Bible happens to be one of my hobbies, and if I lived in Arkansas, I'd do exactly that and challenge their law to the US Supreme Court. Here in Texas I can do that without interference from the police, and I can speak all sorts of things lots of people consider "Heresy" but what I consider just plain common sense, thanks to previous efforts to preserve the right to speak one's mind. I feel it's my duty to pass along this right to the next generation unimpaired so they can freely speak their minds as well. To do that, I have support the right for a lot of idiots to say a lot of stupid, hate-filled, bigoted things. As soon as someone else's speech can be stifled based on content, so can mine. I ain't gonna let that happen.

3) Ya, well, if I were God, the first thing I'd do is do away with Hell. No eternal punishment for anyone. I'd put all the folks who couldn't stop beating up on other people in rehabilitation programs, and leave 'em there until they could get along with everyone else. And since in the afterlife there would be no more sickness or death, I'd make liquor and tobacco available everywhere . . .
Oh yah, if I was God, Heaven would be a much better place than what preachers make it out to be. None of this harp-playing crap, none of this bowing and scraping in front of a **** throne for a thousand years singing whatever it is they sing for a thousand years . . .
Man oh man, If I was God, there'd be lots of nice bars, neighborhood bars, and XXX sleazy bars, all sorts of wild movies (the Muppets, too--I like the Muppets), fast cars, slow cars, motorcycles, flying fat women with enormous tits for y'all straight people to jump up and down on like trampolines . . . no telling what else I'd come up with. Maybe cans (or buckets) of Anabolic pudding that became muscle as soon as you ate it . . . so you could eat as much as you wanted and get as big as you wanted . . .
And then for Babtists like Jerry Falwell, I'd make a big brown room with hard benches and boring books and they could make themselves as happily miserable as they expected everyone to be, and they'd be happy, too.
Oh yah, If I was God, Heaven would be cool . . .

4) Well, a world without terrorists, nazis, fireants, and idiots does sound appealing. Yah, if I could, I'd do whatever it would take to get rid of all of 'em. But you just can't run around vaporizing people because they have stupid ideas . . .
Generally, people grow up to be crazy when they grow up surrounded by craziness. There's a few exceptions, but the principle holds true for the most part. The thing to do is to resolve the craziness, which entails resolving the problems that preclude heathy and constructive human interactions.
This is well-nigh impossible to do on a large scale, but you can work on a small part of the population at a time, and hope that humanity doesn't blow itself up by the time we get everyone's internal conflicts resolved. Meanwhile, ya just gotta live with a lot of craziness in the population.

5) If I had had a choice back in 1955, I would have had my folks spayed and neutered, would not have been born to put up with the crap that spoils life on this planet. But now that I'm here, I can see the humor in things, and that keeps me going. Lots of Christians regard people like me as a chancroid on civilization, and oddly enough, lots of folks like me regard them the same way. They have their proof from their Bible, I have mine from common sense.
All in all, life is not much more than a big amusement park. Ya get on some wild-ass rides, sometimes a roller-coaster car goes flying off a high curve and people get hurt, sometimes you just scream a lot, then go stand in line to do it all over. Sometimes folks just stand around and watch, too afraid to join in the fun all the others are having. Some folks holler at the folks having fun, angry because they're enjoying themselves while they aren't. Other folks spend too much time at the snack bar because the rides scare the **** outta them, and get big and fat because they can't deal with the real world.
And then the sun goes down, the lights go out, and everybody, all the folks who had a good time as well as the folks who didn't, die, and that's it.

Not quite my idea of a reasonable planet, but then no one asked me for my opinion before this one came around. So, we just deal with it, and go on . . .
-Tock

[jon rock]

Here is a simple question for "malitiagay" i mean guy.

Q,, what kind of peacefull group would use a machine gun in their flag or whatever that thing in your avatar is?

[physio_sport]

Muslims!!! (Hamas) Check out the

Arabic letters

KKK

Muslim woman in Afghanistan

KKK!

Muslims!

This looks like a look-alike competition!

KKK!

Muslims!

Muslims!

Well, at least the Ku Klux Klan doesn't lie about there hate!



....

i dont understand are you trying to compare islam with the kkk.

the website http://www.geocities.com/dairyman88dsfdsfds
is so full of crap and fake quotes from the quran, that its not even funny.
some people hate islam so much that they will lie to get their hatred across.
this website you have been to is a racist propaganda website designed to create hatred towards muslims.

i don't have the time to go through every lie on your webpage but i will just cover a few.

first of all your website claims that sex with babies and animals is allowed in islam that is a lie.

http://www.geocities.com/dairyman88dsfdsfds/#Sex with animals and babies

this is a lie because you cant have sex without marrige in islam.
and also that Ayatollah Khomeini guy is not a proper muslim he is a shia muslim they belive slightly differently to other muslims.
also having sex with children and animals is forbidden in the quran.

also it seems as if this website also has a problem with muslims having children.

http://www.geocities.com/dairyman88d.../2.html#Weapon of mass population!

first of all it claims that god has chosen men over womem. this is not true.

and also it claims that incest is allowed in islam. this is also not true.

also it claims that muslims get 72 virgin if they die which is bull*hit becuase nowhere in the quran does it claim that a muslim will get virgins even if they die under any circumstances or are a martyr. if you can find it in the quran i persoanlly will give you £5000 cash.

also if you click on the links you will actually find out that is website is a hate website.

also one of the links claim that israel is the most humane country in the world
*cough* bull***** *cough*

the link is called "16 resons why israel is the most humane country in the world"

it leads you to this page

http://www.ourenemies.org/Reasons.htm

hay bamaslama you give links to racist website that hate arabs and hate islam. you personally seem to also have a problem.
this is why so many people are confused about islam is because they don't understand. they read hate propaganda and think they have become the master of islamic knowlage. i can tell you one thing right know i have studied the quran for 10 years i can tell you right know that no body on this website really knows what islam is about all they know is what they see the arabs doing or what they see on tv/news or what some other guys tell them.

the arabs do not represent islam, they represent themselves.
god represents islam.

you compare the muslims to the kkk.
maybe you should take a look in the mirror and see who has the real similarities with the kkk and then you can move on and concentrate on your own life and stop hating other people and spreading propaganda.

[Terinox]

This thread is WAY to long to read, and I don't even know where the whole discussion is going, and I'm gonna get a bit off topic anywho.

BOTTOM line, we are not as advanced or evolved as we think we are. Sit and watch a nature show, about animals, bugs, insects, wutever, and see their complexity. Watch their colonies, how they function, the naturality of it all and what not. WE still haven't even reached a "stable" balance in this world. Believe it or not, it is almost a NEGATIVE thing that humans have become what they THINK is evolution. Basically, we all suck, big time!!

The world is headed no where fast, really fast. Rich people want more money. Powerful people want more power. Land owners want more land. This is why we are doomed, cuz NO one seems to care about just LIVING their lives. If everyone concentrated on just improving this **** earth instead of trying to get rich and powerful off it, we'd be much better off. This applies to ALL countries and ALL religions and ALL people. The U.S. has done insanely terrible things in the past, and will continue to do them. The M.E. has done insanely terrible things in the past, and will continue to do them, and so will every other nation in the world (except maybe Canada .).

And the really sad thing is we will never achieve greatness. The best example is something like Star Trek (yeah, seriously), and how all the countries in the world unite and become a FEDERATION. A LARGE UNITY of people. There is no money, there is no "my land, your land" it is all about just improving ourselves and learning about science and culture and etc... (Computer, Tea, Earl Gray, Hot) <-- we are not that far away from this, but we don't want it, or so it seems that way.

I can't understand, how a human being can LOOK straight into another human beings eyes, and decide to actually HURT that individual, either beating them, or shooting them. I've never understood this. I can't fathom (sp?) it. It truly disgusts me. People who kill other people (war, crimes, criminals, wutever) are truly SICK in the head. They lack some stuff BIG TIME, and they are dumber than your average person, no matter what the hell you say.

[MilitiaGuy]

And thats why for 25yrs the South Lebanese Army (Christians) protected Israel's northern borders?. Oh come on try alittle harder than that.

And regarding Hezbollahs victory over Israel (as you stated earlier), thats another joke too. Just south of UNIFIL H.Q. in Naqoura is a Hezbollah check point with a painted sign "Today the south, tomorrow all of Palestine". For starts the IDF withdrew when Ehud Barak complied with UN resolutions 425 and 426 not because of Hezbollah attacks. The conditions whereby he could withdraw came indirectly about because of the incident in Qana when the Hezbollah were firing Katusha rockets into the Northern Galilee from behind the Fijan battalions (UNIFIL troops) Rubb hall. The UN asked the Hezbollah to cease its activities as the IDF/IAF had drones up and were threatening to fire on the position. The rest is history, the Hezzies wouldn't stop their firing and cowardly hiding behind the UN position believing the IDF wouldn't fire on the UN position. Sadly they did and killed 102 innocent civilians with a direct hit to the rubb hall with 6 155mm HE arty rds. Shame on the Hezbollah for using these people as human shields.

Btw Militiaguy, have you ever burned an American flag? I bet if you personally haven't you've witnessed it and celebrated with the rest of your murdering cohorts.

Oh, and I'm sure you realise, if it wanted the IDF/IAF could turn Lebanon to dust tomorrow. Now, wouldn't your energy be better served fighting the Syrian occupation of your land?

isreali troops withdrawed because they couldnt handle more human losses in their army because in the last 5 years we have improved our operations and tactics and we increased our attacks on the israeli troops we was able to hit three israeli bases every day without any losses in our troops...plus we have discovered a new way to hit the mercava tank and force the crew to get out of the tank with 1 stinger missile yes we dont have army equipment like israeli army but we have the brain and the tactics ...and for the quana thing heizbollah didnt hide behind those camps israel hit those camps as a revenge and i think the usa government backed up israel with this because they want revenge for the marins that wher killed
for the flag thing i never burned any country flag because i think only the weapons talk burning a flag will not make me win a battle against israel or usa.
the presence of the syrian army in lebanon is legal and its stated in the taiif agreement btw all the lebanese forces.
salam

[MilitiaGuy]

Must be more dumb lebanese Christians, huh?

this a banned christian party in lebanon the leader of this party is rotting in the lebanese prison and we r chasing the member of this party because the explode a church just to put the blame on islamic partys

[MilitiaGuy]

i met many americans her in lebanon but they were peacfull and open minded i dont know why most of the members in this board are so agressive and fanatics

[OGPackin]

this a banned christian party in lebanon the leader of this party is rotting in the lebanese prison and we r chasing the member of this party because the explode a church just to put the blame on islamic partys

Hey M'guy, what ever happend to ur peacefull ways?!? Coward!

WHY THIS GUY HASNT BEEN BANNED YET IS BEYOND ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
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[OGPackin]

i met many americans her in lebanon but they were peacfull and open minded i dont know why most of the members in this board are so agressive and fanatics

Fanatics huh, ummmm thats like the pot calling the kettle black. Meaning, look in the friggin mirror for a fanatic!

OG

[MilitiaGuy]

Hey M'guy, what ever happend to ur peacefull ways?!? Coward!

WHY THIS GUY HASNT BEEN BANNED YET IS BEYOND ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
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why i should be banned i didnt disrespect anyone her i just stated my opinions ,or stating an opinion isnt legal in the united state?

[BDTR]

The same reason you haven't been banned yet.

Hey M'guy, what ever happend to ur peacefull ways?!? Coward!

WHY THIS GUY HASNT BEEN BANNED YET IS BEYOND ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!
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[OGPackin]

The same reason you haven't been banned yet.

Ahhh look who crawled out from under his rock! Wheres the proof to back up ur ridiculous accusations. We havent heard back from u since i called u out on ur dumbass comments.

Annnd it seems ur dislike for Isreal and Jewish people in general is more then for a terrorist (hezbollah and M'guy) group that kills Americans and other innocent people around the world. U must be real proud to be an American.

OG

[OGPackin]

why i should be banned i didnt disrespect anyone her i just stated my opinions ,or stating an opinion isnt legal in the united state?

Having that avatar is reason enough! Anyone who is pro-hezbollah a known terrorist group who have killed innocent people is also more then reason enough.

But i guess only Bouncer and I understand the meaning?

OG

[physio_sport]

Having that avatar is reason enough! Anyone who is pro-hezbollah a known terrorist group who have killed innocent people is also more then reason enough.

But i guess only Bouncer and I understand the meaning?

OG

actually hezbollah is not recognized as a terrorist group by every country for example Europe does not recognize hezbollah as a terrorist orginisation only the militant wing of hezbollah is seen as the terrorists and the political wing is seen as a legitimate recognized Lebanese political party.

on the other hand hamas,the PFLP and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade are seen as full terrorist groups.

[OGPackin]

actually hezbollah is not recognized as a terrorist group by every country for example Europe does not recognize hezbollah as a terrorist orginisation only the militant wing of hezbollah is seen as the terrorists and the political wing is seen as a legitimate recognized Lebanese political party.

on the other hand hamas,the PFLP and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade are seen as full terrorist groups.

Well, theres a big difference between Hezbollah and PFLP and AL-Aqsa. Hezbollah has 12 seats in Lebanon's 128-member parliament and i guess recognized in some countries eyes as having some legitimacy with that. Where as the PFLO and AL-Aqsa cant say the same.

I also found out what his avatars says.....The Hezbollah emblem with a hand brandishing a machine gun and the belligerent slogan that quotes the Quran: "Only Allah's congregation [i.e., Muhammad and his followers] shall be victorious"

Doesnt sound like the political wing to me? What do u think?

OG

ps here is a link with some really good upto date info on hezbollah and their plans. http://www.meib.org/articles/0202_l1.htm

[OGPackin]

Some more info..

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/200311...h-be-next.html

[physio_sport]

we seem to be getting into an argument here between palistine and israel and how one side is this and the other is that acting is if the palistinian suicide bombers are the major killers and israelies are the defenders this is not true.

if you look at the statistics between September 29, 2000 to October 11 2003

the israel millitry has killed at least 476 Palestinian children,
and the palistinian terrorists have killed about 106 Israelis children.

all where under the age of 18 and have become victims of the violence in Israel and the occupied territories.

and the same goes with women killed by the isreal millitry. the statistics show that the isreal millitry kill more women, pregnant women, children and babies then palistinian suiced bombers.


and also you can find that the palistinians have attacked 2 isreal schools and the isreal army have attacked over 185 palistinian schools since September 29, 2000


so who are the real terrorists?

sources of information

http://www.un.org/depts/dpa/qpal/ - united nations
http://rememberthesechildren.org/ - dead children in the conflict
http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...933352,00.html - bombing by jewish terrorist group on palistinian children in school

http://www.dci-pal.org/first.html - defense for children internation
http://www.dci-pal.org/links/links.html - links to other places for info

[OGPackin]

we seem to be getting into an argument here between palistine and israel and how one side is this and the other is that acting is if the palistinian suicide bombers are the major killers and israelies are the defenders this is not true.

if you look at the statistics between September 29, 2000 to October 11 2003

the israel millitry has killed at least 476 Palestinian children,
and the palistinian terrorists have killed about 106 Israelis children.

all where under the age of 18 and have become victims of the violence in Israel and the occupied territories.

and the same goes with women killed by the isreal millitry. the statistics show that the isreal millitry kill more women, pregnant women, children and babies then palistinian suiced bombers.


and also you can find that the palistinians have attacked 2 isreal schools and the isreal army have attacked over 185 palistinian schools since September 29, 2000


so who are the real terrorists?

sources of information

http://www.un.org/depts/dpa/qpal/ - united nations
http://rememberthesechildren.org/ - dead children in the conflict
http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...933352,00.html - bombing by jewish terrorist group on palistinian children in school

http://www.dci-pal.org/first.html - defense for children internation
http://www.dci-pal.org/links/links.html - links to other places for info

First off, IMO u and i arent arguing. Atleast i didnt think so? 2nd off, u are waaay off pass here. I think u need to go back and re-read this WHOLE post from the begining. This started with M'guys avatar and what it stands for. A terrorist group. 3rd, Hezbollah is not a Palestinian lead group. Its lead by Iran/Syria. So im not sure where ur trying to go with this.

Yes, i will agree with u Isreal has done some wrong things but, all in defense of their land and their very lives for that matter. U can try and defend them if thats what u choose. But in the end they are simply terrorists.

OG

[Cycleon]

Ahhh look who crawled out from under his rock! Wheres the proof to back up ur ridiculous accusations. We havent heard back from u since i called u out on ur dumbass comments.

Annnd it seems ur dislike for Isreal and Jewish people in general is more then for a terrorist (hezbollah and M'guy) group that kills Americans and other innocent people around the world. U must be real proud to be an American.

OG

First of all - Im trying to get an exact rendering of what the avatar is - the political or militant wing - but frankly Im fed up with both and going to pull the avatar down - because, yes Hezbolla is still a terrorist org - period

second - at least he is smart enough not to be personally disrespectfull in his posts - unlike you! - I dont want to hear you speaking of ANY mods "dumbass comments" again.

[Phillyboy1]

how about we just bomb all of the M.E. and make it a nice oil rig/ disney land/ vacation beach. personally dont think anyone over there is ever gonna live in peace, they are all nuts. you can take any jew or muslim over there and after you strip there religion from them they are exactly the same. all they're fighting is over both stupid ass religions. both sides are crazy. either the USA needs to just let them kills themselves and stay out of it, or bomb them ourselves to both of their heavens. neither religion is right. they need to all just come together and make one big country and take the f-cking religion out of the govermental system. let politics be politics and let religion be religion. the whole reason they're so f-cked is cause they cant seem to distinguse the two as seperate.

[physio_sport]

First off, IMO u and i arent arguing. Atleast i didnt think so? 2nd off, u are waaay off pass here. I think u need to go back and re-read this WHOLE post from the begining. This started with M'guys avatar and what it stands for. A terrorist group. 3rd, Hezbollah is not a Palestinian lead group. Its lead by Iran/Syria. So im not sure where ur trying to go with this.

Yes, i will agree with u Isreal has done some wrong things but, all in defense of their land and their very lives for that matter. U can try and defend them if thats what u choose. But in the end they are simply terrorists.

OG

actually hezbollah is supported by syria/iran and lebonon but has major backing from shia muslims(iran type muslim).

yes, but this is what i don't understand. its ok for isreal to kill thier children but its not ok for them to kill isreal's children.

why the double standerds?

please don't get me wrong on this. i am not implying it is ok to kill children.
actually in the quran it's forbidden to kill children,women,elderly and disabled under any circumstances.

what hezbollah are doing is actually forbidden in islam

actually muslims and christians especially should be able to get along with each other because both belive in god and jesus and both belive in jesus coming back to save mankind but its stupid groups like hezbollah and others like bin ladins mob who are causing this stupid rift between the religons.

and other people should be able to get along too. but you have to admit israel is not as innocent as it makes out, how can it justify defending itself when it is the one doing most of the killing of women and children.

[OGPackin]

First of all - Im trying to get an exact rendering of what the avatar is - the political or militant wing - but frankly Im fed up with both and going to pull the avatar down - because, yes Hezbolla is still a terrorist org - period

second - at least he is smart enough not to be personally disrespectfull in his posts - unlike you! - I dont want to hear you speaking of ANY mods "dumbass comments" again.

First off, i appreciate u taking it down! I found out what the words are. The Hezbollah emblem with a hand brandishing a machine gun and the belligerent slogan that quotes the Quran: "Only Allah's congregation [i.e., Muhammad and his followers] shall be victorious" Im not sure which wing, but with the the arm raised with a gun im pretty sure it isnt the political side.

Now to bdtr, im sure he doesnt need u sticking up for him. Hes a big boy and should be able to back up his IMO ridiculous acquisitions. If u'v been keeping up with this post im sure u know the ones im talking about? If u dont, then i ask u go back and read them. And where i asked him to back up what he thinks are facts. Once i confronted him to proove what he speaks he didnt respond back with proof. Heck, he didnt respond at all. Granted i could have used better word other then "dumbass".

Sooooooo, if im to be banned for asking someone to back up what they believe/say then ban me!

OG

[Cycleon]

no - it isnt an issue of sticiing up for BDTR - but since he is an AR mod, by making comments like that you are disrespecting the position he holds and therefore the board where he holds it - and that I cannot allow. If he wants to answer your arguments that is his choice of course and all can have a fine debate - but you will keep a civil tounge in mind if you want to keep having one - I debate vehemenently with people but I do not call them personally stupid, no matter how silly I think their ideas may be

First off, i appreciate u taking it down! I found out what the words are. The Hezbollah emblem with a hand brandishing a machine gun and the belligerent slogan that quotes the Quran: "Only Allah's congregation [i.e., Muhammad and his followers] shall be victorious" Im not sure which wing, but with the the arm raised with a gun im pretty sure it isnt the political side.

Now to bdtr, im sure he doesnt need u sticking up for him. Hes a big boy and should be able to back up his IMO ridiculous acquisitions. If u'v been keeping up with this post im sure u know the ones im talking about? If u dont, then i ask u go back and read them. And where i asked him to back up what he thinks are facts. Once i confronted him to proove what he speaks he didnt respond back with proof. Heck, he didnt respond at all. Granted i could have used better word other then "dumbass".

Sooooooo, if im to be banned for asking someone to back up what they believe/say then ban me!

OG

[OGPackin]

actually hezbollah is supported by syria/iran and lebonon but has major backing from shia muslims(iran type muslim).

yes, but this is what i don't understand. its ok for isreal to kill thier children but its not ok for them to kill isreal's children.

why the double standerds?

please don't get me wrong on this. i am not implying it is ok to kill children.
actually in the quran it's forbidden to kill children,women,elderly and disabled under any circumstances.

what hezbollah are doing is actually forbidden in islam

actually muslims and christians especially should be able to get along with each other because both belive in god and jesus and both belive in jesus coming back to save mankind but its stupid groups like hezbollah and others like bin ladins mob who are causing this stupid rift between the religons.

and other people should be able to get along too. but you have to admit israel is not as innocent as it makes out, how can it justify defending itself when it is the one doing most of the killing of women and children.

Hey bro, i dont think we are to far off in what we are trying to get across. I think there is one HUGE difference in what u are saying though. Isreal is not sending over men, women and children suicide bombers to kill innocent people. Wether they are Israeli or not. Hezbollah and the other groups are. Isreal isnt deliberately targeting women and children like Hezbollah is. Isreal has the right to defend itself and if Hezbollah chooses to make bombs and hide weapons where innocent people could get hurt i think the onus should be on them.

OG

[OGPackin]

no - it isnt an issue of sticiing up for BDTR - but since he is an AR mod, by making comments like that you are disrespecting the position he holds and therefore the board where he holds it - and that I cannot allow. If he wants to answer your arguments that is his choice of course and all can have a fine debate - but you will keep a civil tounge in mind if you want to keep having one - I debate vehemenently with people but I do not call them personally stupid, no matter how silly I think their ideas may be

I understand what ur saying about the "dumbass" comment. I shouldnt stoop, but u make a statement that bdtr is a MOD here and represents AR. Im not sure id want someone making acquisitions that have anti-semetic overtures representing me. That would also go for anyone making racist overtures as well.

Ur right its his choice to respond or not. IMO hes lost all credibility i HOPE AR doesnt either?

OG

[Tock]

I also found out what his avatars says.....The Hezbollah emblem with a hand brandishing a machine gun and the belligerent slogan that quotes the Quran: "Only Allah's congregation [i.e., Muhammad and his followers] shall be victorious"

Doesnt sound like the political wing to me? What do u think?

OG
http://www.meib.org/articles/0202_l1.htm

Kinda reminds me of the Church hymn, "Onward Christian Soldiers" . . .

Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus going on before.
Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe;
Forward into battle see His banners go!

Refrain

Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus going on before.

At the sign of triumph Satan’s host doth flee;
On then, Christian soldiers, on to victory!
Hell’s foundations quiver at the shout of praise;
Brothers lift your voices, loud your anthems raise.

Refrain

Like a mighty army moves the church of God;
Brothers, we are treading where the saints have trod.
We are not divided, all one body we,
One in hope and doctrine, one in charity.

Refrain

What the saints established that I hold for true.
What the saints believèd, that I believe too.
Long as earth endureth, men the faith will hold,
Kingdoms, nations, empires, in destruction rolled.

Refrain

Crowns and thrones may perish, kingdoms rise and wane,
But the church of Jesus constant will remain.
Gates of hell can never gainst that church prevail;
We have Christ’s own promise, and that cannot fail.

Refrain

Onward then, ye people, join our happy throng,
Blend with ours your voices in the triumph song.
Glory, laud and honor unto Christ the King,
This through countless ages men and angels sing.

Refrain

===========

[Tock]

1) Isreal is not sending over men, women and children suicide bombers to kill innocent people. Wether they are Israeli or not. Hezbollah and the other groups are.

2) Isreal isnt deliberately targeting women and children like Hezbollah is.

3) Isreal has the right to defend itself

4) and if Hezbollah chooses to make bombs and hide weapons where innocent people could get hurt i think the

5) onus should be on them.



OG

1) No, Isreal is not sending suicide bombers over to kill innocent Palestinians. They are using their army and air force to do that. When ya have lots of tanks, there ain't any need for suicides.

2) I beg to differ. When the Israeli army goes outside their borders to knock down a Palestinian town, they don't stop if there are still people inside homes. They may or may not get a warning, and then *boom* that's it. If people try to defend their homes, the army shoots 'em.
If you check out the website for the International Solidarity Movement
http://www.palsolidarity.org/ you'll discover that this peaceful group is supported by folks around the world, and they have seen the BS the Israeli army dumps on those poor people. In fact, every now and then, the Israeli army shoots some of these foreign peace activists.
IMHO, the Israeli military is just as despicable (if not more so) than the worst of the Arab terrorists.

3) Israel his the right to defend its territory as granted by the United Nations in 1947. It's been building Israeli settlements outside those borders (condemned by every UN nation except for Israel and the US), and its efforts to defend those illegal settlements amount to nothing less than war crimes.

4) Yah, that's no good, either. I don't know that that is a big problem, or is it?
I recall something about UN efforts to outlaw landmines because mostly little kids get blown up by them . . . and the US is one of the few countries to oppose this (yea, G Bush!)

5) I glad you spelled this right . . .

--Tock

[Cycleon]

Thats a great song Tock - thanks for posting - the difference is that Christians are in a SPIRITUAL WAR not a physical one - same as Jesus stated to his accusers he was a spiritual king not a temporal one

[Tock]

Thats a great song Tock - thanks for posting - the difference is that Christians are in a SPIRITUAL WAR not a physical one - same as Jesus stated to his accusers he was a spiritual king not a temporal one

So . . . if these "Christians Marching on to War" can be construed to be a spiritual thing,
could not OGPackin's interpretation of "the Hezbollah emblem with a hand brandishing a machine gun and the belligerent slogan that quotes the Quran: "Only Allah's congregation [i.e., Muhammad and his followers] shall be victorious"
be similarly construed as a spiritual thing?

I don't see why not.
--Tock

[BOUNCER]

Guys, Militiaguys avatar is down. At this stage it seem's as though NO ONE apart from OG and Palme has read what I wrote about my following of the situation there, having served in the M.E. on and off this last 15 yrs.

Stupid ass comments like "lets all just bomb the middle east", are just empty headed krap and we don't need in this thread so please keep them out.

Tock, I despair at you, really I do. You've just asked Militiaguy about his avatar after over 100 posts here regarding it. Are you reading anything in this thread or just blindly posting your BS?.

Militiaguy, please enlighten me as to what new way you've found to hit the Merkava MBT please?. I don't recall too many Merkava's being hit the last few years, certainly you've hit some SLA T55 MBT's with IED's and other RSB's. As regards Qana, what you wrote to my reply here is a joke. I won't bother wasting my energy repling to that rubbish.

M'guy, put simply. Do you support Islams Jihad against Israel, the USA and the west in general?

[Cycleon]

So . . . if these "Christians Marching on to War" can be construed to be a spiritual thing,
could not OGPackin's interpretation of "the Hezbollah emblem with a hand brandishing a machine gun and the belligerent slogan that quotes the Quran: "Only Allah's congregation [i.e., Muhammad and his followers] shall be victorious"
be similarly construed as a spiritual thing?

I don't see why not.
--Tock

they cant be construed as spiritual warriors alone because they are busy planning attacks with temporal bombs - you didnt read of Martin Luther firebombing the church did you? no, he stapled a piece of paper on the door with his doctrinal disagreements - THAT is a major difference

[Tock]

[QUOTE=BOUNCER]
Tock, I despair at you, really I do. You've just asked Militiaguy about his avatar after over 100 posts here regarding it. Are you reading anything in this thread or just blindly posting your BS?.
QUOTE]


Oh, I'm sorry . . . I didn't know I had to ask your permission before I personally asked Militiaguy a question . . . Next time I'll know that anything you say about MG is more valid than what MG says himself . . .
--Tock

[Tock]

they cant be construed as spiritual warriors alone because they are busy planning attacks with temporal bombs - you didnt read of Martin Luther firebombing the church did you? no, he stapled a piece of paper on the door with his doctrinal disagreements - THAT is a major difference

I don't know that that is the case.
Yes, some Hezbollah folks do, but I don't know that all do.
Just like I know that some Christians use rifles to shoot abortion doctors and use bombs to damage clinics and gay bars and use intimidation on people. And if you include the KKK (who require each and every member to be Christian) they hang people, intimidate, burn houses, etc etc etc. Truly vile people. And each and every one is a born again Christian.

Given y'all's accuracy and lack of impartiality on a lot of stuff, I was hoping to ask Militiaguy a few questions about Hezbollah. But it seems that some people take exception to such impertinance, and think that what they have to say on the matter should suffice.

--Tock

[physio_sport]

Guys, Militiaguys avatar is down. At this stage it seem's as though NO ONE apart from OG and Palme has read what I wrote about my following of the situation there, having served in the M.E. on and off this last 15 yrs.

Stupid ass comments like "lets all just bomb the middle east", are just empty headed krap and we don't need in this thread so please keep them out.

Tock, I despair at you, really I do. You've just asked Militiaguy about his avatar after over 100 posts here regarding it. Are you reading anything in this thread or just blindly posting your BS?.

Militiaguy, please enlighten me as to what new way you've found to hit the Merkava MBT please?. I don't recall too many Merkava's being hit the last few years, certainly you've hit some SLA T55 MBT's with IED's and other RSB's. As regards Qana, what you wrote to my reply here is a joke. I won't bother wasting my energy repling to that rubbish.

M'guy, put simply. Do you support Islams Jihad against Israel, the USA and the west in general?

well actually the jihad that your refering to is completly wrong.
this is the main problem in the west when using arabic words 99% of the people that use them don't know what they mean.

here is a definition of the word jihad by The Institute of Islamic Information & Education

JIHAD EXPLAINED
The Institute of Islamic Information & Education
Brochure No. 18

In the linguistic sense, the Arabic word "jihad" means struggling or striving and applies to any effort exerted by anyone. In this sense, a student struggles and strives to get an education and pass course work; an employee strives to fulfill his/her job and maintain good relations with his/her employer; a politician strives to maintain or increase his(1) popularity with his constituents and so on. The term strive or struggle may be used for/by Muslims as well as non-Muslims; for example, Allah, the One and Only True God says in the Qur'an:

"We have enjoined on people kindness to parents; but if they strive (Jahadaka) to make you ascribe partners with Me that of which you have no knowledge, then obey them not..."
(The Holy Quran, 29:8; also see 31:15)
In the above two verses of the Qur'an , it is non-Muslim parents who strive (jahadaka) to convert their Muslim child back to their religion. In the West, "jihad" is generally translated as "holy war," a usage the media has popularized. According to Islamic teachings, it is unholy to instigate or start war; however, some wars are inevitable and justifiable.

If we translate the words "holy war" back into Arabic, we find "harbun muqaddasatu," or for "the holy war," "al-harbu al-muqaddasatu." We challenge any researcher or scholar to find the meaning of "jihad" as holy war in the Qur'an or authentic Hadith collections or in early Islamic literature. Unfortunately, some Muslim writers and translators of the Qur'an, the Hadith and other Islamic literature translate the term "jihad" as "holy war," due to the influence of centuries-old Western propaganda.

This could be a reflection of the Christian use of the term "Holy War" to refer to the Crusades of a thousand years ago. However, the Arabic words for "war" are "harb" or "qital," which are found in the Qur'an and Hadith.

[Rak_Ani]

Hello Everyone
As some of you might remember from the last time you all started arguing about Israel/Palestinians/Arabs/terrorists, I show up when called, by a friend (who will forgive me for being late...I haven't been home in the last few days)
Here I am again, a bit late and as I don't have the time or the patience to start reading all of the posts, I will reply to the few I read.
First of all, MelitiaGuy, next time you decide to quote from a Tanzim website, be sure there's no one here who might know what the Tanzim is. Now, from what I read, no one here questioned the website you got your "facts" from, but that's what I'm here for. Tanzim is a terrorist organization. Any search in a NEUTRAL (that means not a terrorist or propaganda website) website will give you that fact. You may, of course, believe what you read there if you wish, but if I were you, I wouldn't count on it making me any more educated.

Another thing, I understand you had something yellow with Arabic writting by your name, and Bouncer said if the moderators knew what it said, they'd probably ban you (or something of that sort). First of all, allow me to show those who forgot, the flag you had by your name. It can be found here:

http://www.hizbollah.tv/english/frames/index_eg.htm

Those who don't know, this is the HIZBALLA website. Some info about the Hizballa can be found here:

http://www.ict.org.il/organizations/...e.cfm?orgid=15

Now you know, and it's your decision what you want to do about this person who doesn't hide his support of terrorists.

bdrt, do you know what Zionism is, that you hate it so much? Please explain to me what exactly about the Zionist Idiology you hate.

It doesn't cease to amaze me how much people enjoy arguing about things the don't know. How many of you here have witnessed a suicide bombing? How many have seen a human arm fall out of the sky on top of their car from an explosion? How many have seen a bus blow up 50 meters from them? How many have stopped their car at a red light and the first thought that came to their head was "please God, don't let the bus on my right blow up"? How many have acually gotten off a bus or train because someone looked suspecious to them? How many have looked a young girl in the eyes, as she was laying on the ground, bleeding to death, missing her legs, and saw her look when she realised she wasn't going to live? None of you, probably. Finally the US has a leader who understands the necessity to fight terror, who understand that you can postpone it, but eventually you'll have no choice but to stand up and fight back. It's only a question of how long and how many people you'll burry before you do it.
Israel has every right to defend herself. There is no reason in the world innocent civilians should die in Israel and if it takes building a fence and sending troops into the WB and Gaza, then be it.

Anyway, that's it for now. I might add comments later. In the meantime I have to run.

Take care

[Rak_Ani]

One more thing, when you press the link to the Hizballa website, you will need to be patient because it takes long for it to load.

[Animal Cracker]

Good post Rak.