Tai's Free Cycle Advice...

**taiboxa** · 03-10-2008, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by 39+1

what are you talking about now?

i dont really knwo any more ><
i was actually riposting to elexecutions Q' bout ancillaries affectings/hindering gains.

Originally Posted by 39+1

when changing cycles should i just change drugs and double the dose

Get an avatar... ur posts are sneaking by me.. i look for pics, not user names (my adhd and dyslexia make it really hard for me to focus w/o some sort of coloration- thanks

)

as for your question.. its far to vague.
doubling dose? are you saying if you like switch from testP to testE.. would u double the dose of testE to frontload and catch its plasma levels up to peak?
or would you completely alter your cycle?
cant really help you, due to the format of your question there bub.

**taiboxa** · 03-10-2008, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by shifty_git

but what if i have no sister? than mean no cycle for me?

is ur mom hot?

**shifty_git** · 03-10-2008, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

is ur mom hot?

my mums smokin!!!! (mom for you usa fellas!)

...and she has her own credit card so no worries there!!!

good thread though tai!

**taiboxa** · 03-10-2008, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by shifty_git

my mums smokin!!!! (mom for you usa fellas!)

...and she has her own credit card so no worries there!!!

good thread though tai!

thanks.. beast inspired me

**shifty_git** · 03-10-2008, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

thanks.. beast inspired me

think most guys here appreciate the time and effort put in by you mega experienced lab rats!

ok serious one for you...

ive seen you say about you use tren as a form of contraceptive...

how come tren will allow that and not test? (assuming your shut down 100% by both)

do 19nors effect sperm production in a different way?

**taiboxa** · 03-10-2008, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by shifty_git

think most guys here appreciate the time and effort put in by you mega experienced lab rats!

ok serious one for you...

ive seen you say about you use tren as a form of contraceptive...

how come tren will allow that and not test? (assuming your shut down 100% by both)

do 19nors effect sperm production in a different way?

i dont know if u remember jagdpanther .. he was a guy here for quite some time.. one of the biggest "Research article readers" ever.. guy read EVERYTHING.. he was suppose to send me an article on how 19nors inhibit spermotogenisis more so than just normal suppression from exogenous test but people in his family started passing away and he kinda vanished from the scene poor guy.
either way though it still takes approximatly 6months for your swimmers to quit swimming. also you can add gesterone to ensure that you dont produce sperm though you will need TRT

**shifty_git** · 03-10-2008, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

i dont know if u remember jagdpanther .. he was a guy here for quite some time.. one of the biggest "Research article readers" ever.. guy read EVERYTHING.. he was suppose to send me an article on how 19nors inhibit spermotogenisis more so than just normal suppression from exogenous test but people in his family started passing away and he kinda vanished from the scene poor guy.
either way though it still takes approximatly 6months for your swimmers to quit swimming. also you can add gesterone to ensure that you dont produce sperm though you will need TRT

ive read that one of the problems that occur with HRT is that because your putting test into your system you are also shutting down other hormones..

would gesterone be one of these that gets shut down? and therefore why you read about guys saying there girls got pregnant while they were on cycle.. as might actually increase sperm production due to lack of gesterone? and why some older guys on HRT not only get more wood, but have kids a later age?

or did that only make sense in my head? lol

**taiboxa** · 03-10-2008, 02:52 PM

i "Heard" its the exogenous itroduction of gesterone that you take to make you infertile... and it also causes suppression of ur testosterone so u have to take TRT w/ it.. OF COURSE i could be so ****d up on this i really dont know.. i havent had a discussion of this sort in ... about 2 years

**shifty_git** · 03-10-2008, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

i "Heard" its the exogenous itroduction of gesterone that you take to make you infertile... and it also causes suppression of ur testosterone so u have to take TRT w/ it.. OF COURSE i could be so ****d up on this i really dont know.. i havent had a discussion of this sort in ... about 2 years

but bottom line... you take tren all year round and no mini-ninja's tearing up the house yet? lol

**taiboxa** · 03-10-2008, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by shifty_git

but bottom line... you take tren all year round and no mini-ninja's tearing up the house yet? lol

werd..though my current gf (whom im gettin married to real soon wants to pop out some kids.. so this could get interesting)

**shifty_git** · 03-10-2008, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

i "Heard" its the exogenous itroduction of gesterone that you take to make you infertile... and it also causes suppression of ur testosterone so u have to take TRT w/ it.. OF COURSE i could be so ****d up on this i really dont know.. i havent had a discussion of this sort in ... about 2 years

suppose the theroy has 'base' as gesterone is progesterone family.. and tren increasing progesterone will also 'likely' increase other prog family hormones that dont get talked about much on here (as not as relevent to building muscle compared with test, estro n prog)....

Originally Posted by taiboxa

werd..though my current gf (whom im gettin married to real soon wants to pop out some kids.. so this could get interesting)

congrats on that one fella! hope she adds to ya life! rather than take things away from it (not ganna mention credit cards again as dont mean it in that sense lol)

maybe a bicycle pump and yogurt so you can fake it for a while?

**naturalsux** · 03-10-2008, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by shifty_git

but bottom line... you take tren all year round and no mini-ninja's tearing up the house yet? lol

is it ok to run tren for long periods, if your on hrt?

**goose** · 03-10-2008, 03:24 PM

tai-

Do you think the use of EPO wold be helpful for a bodybuilder? Met a few guys who like the results.

By pat Arnold.

`In addition to increasing aerobic efficiency through greater oxygen transport in the blood, there is some evidence suggesting EPO may also have anabolic effects. EPO has been shown in rat studies to substantially increase weight gain and injury repair after surgery. Furthermore, EPO receptors are present on myoblasts (immature muscle cell progenitors) and may have a potential in muscle development and repair`

So if it helps to recover might play a role.Nice to hear your feedback.

**audis4** · 03-10-2008, 03:32 PM

thanks for the response tai, check your pms when you have a chance

**taiboxa** · 03-10-2008, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by goose4

tai-

Do you think the use of EPO wold be helpful for a bodybuilder? Met a few guys who like the results.

By pat Arnold.

`In addition to increasing aerobic efficiency through greater oxygen transport in the blood, there is some evidence suggesting EPO may also have anabolic effects. EPO has been shown in rat studies to substantially increase weight gain and injury repair after surgery. Furthermore, EPO receptors are present on myoblasts (immature muscle cell progenitors) and may have a potential in muscle development and repair`

So if it helps to recover might play a role.Nice to hear your feedback.

TREN increases RBC as do many androgens and i still feel like poo.. i think adding EPO would cause my BP to skyrocket and give me a stroke.
but.. as for development and repair.. i'd opt for something like IGF-1, LR3IGF or GH... epo is just far far too risky IMO to be used in bodybuilding area ... maybe for a marathon runner that isnt pumping tons of aas into his body that would be perfectly fine.. but we are NOT marathon runners..

someday i might try it just for shits and giggles but right now.. my balls arent big enough for it.

**taiboxa** · 03-10-2008, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by naturalsux

is it ok to run tren for long periods, if your on hrt?

only blood work can tell... and when u get blood work done.. you need to get everything checkd out.. also you might wanna keep an eye on your prostate strong androgens and DHTs can make ur prostate into a water melon

**taiboxa** · 03-10-2008, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by audis4

thanks for the response tai, check your pms when you have a chance

no prob, any time

**C_Bino** · 03-10-2008, 04:06 PM

Tai good sir.
I think something many newbies would like to know is:

What do you believe to be the most cost-effective AAS in both oral and injectible forms. In other words, what do you believe will yield the best results for someone while not spending top dollar for say tren and var.

***perfectbeast2001*** · 03-10-2008, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

thanks.. beast inspired me

neither really cause any Hinderence in gains..
letro makes me dry, loss of libido (not impotent though), and slightly lethargic.
caber makes me moody as fvck, makes sex very unsatisfying- that euphoria i get post climax doesnt seem to really hang around its ilke OK i just had sex lets go again.. maybe this time i will want icecream afterwards.. but no.. no icecream urge.. beast had a lil ordeal w/ caber that i gave him some ideas on, it'd be nice if he could shine some light on how it affected him when he played around/ommited his dostinex/caber dosing.

personally i dont use any ancillaries unless I KNOW im seeing symptoms of some sort of progesterone/gyno/prolactin issues. otherwise i find it MUCH MUCH more ideal to manipulate my estrogen through my test dosage (which is my primary aromatizing compound.)

NOTE: i had all these copied and pasted in orderly fasion answered and everything but some how i fvckered it up (imagine that) and now i gotta sift back through and find the Q's i over looked (fvcking microsoft word)

Hey buddy. Yes I experienced pretty bad mood swings and feelings of axiety and depression on this last run of tren . This was my first run of Tren E (i have run tren A a couple of times before with no real sides that i noticed).
Following your advice I lowered the test dosage to 250mg EW. The tren was run at 400mg EW. I dropped the caber. I was also running drol 50mg ED and GH with either IGF or slin PWO. After making the changes you suggested I started to feel less moody after about 4 days. My anxiety decreased. One of the main problems i had is that I am OCD which i can normally control through visualization however It was getting way off the scale on this cycle. This too began to improve after the changes were made. I have finished the cycle this week and i will be back on TRT dosing. I will not be running tren again. It didnt do anything for me that deca couldn't do but the sides IMO were not worth it. Even after changes were made they improved but i am still a little moody and anxious. Also experienced night sweats and insomnia this run which i have never had before. Do you think its possible that the ester could make any difference to tren sides?

**taiboxa** · 03-10-2008, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

Tai good sir.
I think something many newbies would like to know is:

What do you believe to be the most cost-effective AAS in both oral and injectible forms. In other words, what do you believe will yield the best results for someone while not spending top dollar for say tren and var.

awesome question.
especially w/ the aas community facing a great ordeal of inflation due to all the powder sources being shut down or taking a temporarily leave of absence..
there are a few suggestions i would like to throw out.
(i know i know no price discussion but im not going to name prices.. only RATIOS which are even more vague than the price discussion given in the profiles)

Ok first lets look at orals.
var = EXPENSIVE gram for gram at least 10x more than dbol /drol/win
Halo= LOL not even going to mention it as its like 5x more than var which is 50x more than dbol/drol/win LOL

so obviously var is GREAT for those who are going to run 5-10mg ed (such as WOMEN or Anabolic CEO[still a woman])

so that leaves us w/ the common 3
DBOL, DROL, and WIN honestly they all cost the exact same .. it just depends on how many hands they pass through and how high the demand is for that certain compound.. summer time.. win is the popular one.. winter its drol and dbol...

Drol and dbol are both commonly used as BULKING compounds.. but mg to mg DBOL is far superior so cost wise its a better buy.. IF your using it by its self.. but thats a n00b mistake.. most always use it in conjunction w/ another compound. Drol, while not as strong as dbol, it is a DHT which means it works far more synergistically w/ a nor group I.e. tren or deca .

so now that we have looked at the basics of orals .. lets look at injectables

EQ... yeah its DUMB its raw form is pretty much the same price as deca but from what i have seen it yields like 1/5th the strength gains deca yields, has to be ran for freakin ever and 600mg/wk is bout the norm (minimum dosage i would use). its great if u want a cheesy weak version of tren (basically its like tren w/o the fat burning properties or the insane anabolic properties- so in sum, it just makes u look dry hard and vascular)
I GET MORE GAINS from 100mg/wk of TrenE than i do from 1.2g/wk of EQ /wk (i'll let you all do math on that one)

Deca... by far a godsend.. its CHEAP in comparison to almost all other injectables.. raw form i usually see it cheaper than EQ, it can yield nice gains in dosings as little as 200mg/wk and from personal experience and from others i know on a PERSONAL basis BLOAT IS NOT COMMON, allow me to reiterate... DO NOT BLOAT ON DECA.. NO MOON FACE! i feel that is because its only a 20% aromatization rate as compared to test which has a VERY HIGH aromatization conversion. alot of people who i see on test/deca cycles bloat hard.. and blame it on deca.. though i have ran deca only and did not bloat.. test on other hand gives me a nice amount of water retention but nothing insane. (Babbling i know try to stay w/ me). it also cushions the joints nicely and can increase rbc (or at least increase vascularity in alot of people including myself - assumption here but backed by common sense)

Last one im going to talk about is test... it is the cheapest manufactured injectable and imo the lamest.. it serves no purpose other than keeping boners going and maintaining proper physiological functions. too much = too much estrogen = shitty sides. so you really only need enough test to stay NORMAL .. 100-250mg/wk

ok so in summary... for a cost efffective cycle.

the best composed cycle i have seen is ur common Nor/DHT combo.

trenE is an amazing nor group. if you want- try running it around 200-300mg/wk in conjunction w/ win at 50mg ED. dont forget ur TRT dose

my personal favorite is Deca/drol combo, its cheap and its far more effective for me than deca/dbol since the DHT properties of DROL really coincide nicely w/ the 19nor group.

i would try to avoid short esters as they wont give you the cumulative stacking effects that long esters will.

**taiboxa** · 03-10-2008, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by perfectbeast2001

Hey buddy. Yes I experienced pretty bad mood swings and feelings of axiety and depression on this last run of tren . This was my first run of Tren E (i have run tren A a couple of times before with no real sides that i noticed).
Following your advice I lowered the test dosage to 250mg EW. The tren was run at 400mg EW. I dropped the caber. I was also running drol 50mg ED and GH with either IGF or slin PWO. After making the changes you suggested I started to feel less moody after about 4 days. My anxiety decreased. One of the main problems i had is that I am OCD which i can normally control through visualization however It was getting way off the scale on this cycle. This too began to improve after the changes were made. I have finished the cycle this week and i will be back on TRT dosing. I will not be running tren again. It didnt do anything for me that deca couldn't do but the sides IMO were not worth it. Even after changes were made they improved but i am still a little moody and anxious. Also experienced night sweats and insomnia this run which i have never had before. Do you think its possible that the ester could make any difference to tren sides?

thanks again for chiming in.
the only thing i can think of is... the ester made the tren stay in ur system longer so each administration would stack on its self causing ur overal plasma levels to be higher that you planned. trensomnia is a DEVIL and a HALF... absolute worst side i have ever encountered on any drug.. as long as im below 400mg/wk of tren im fine.. when i exceed 400mg i get NO sleep whats so ever which makes me bitchy as hell.

**Test-Prop604** · 03-10-2008, 05:01 PM

I Have Signs On Gyno Should I Stop My Cycle

**taiboxa** · 03-10-2008, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Test-Prop604

I Have Signs On Gyno Should I Stop My Cycle

Deciphering vagueness is not one of my strong points

BUT, judging by the lack of info u provided and the compilation of your question im going to go ahead and assume you shouldnt be cycling to begin with.

**Test-Prop604** · 03-10-2008, 05:17 PM

I don't really have gyno im just asking because if one does get gyno should they end there cycle with pct or can they carry on with a strong estrogen blocker (letro/nolva)

**taiboxa** · 03-10-2008, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Test-Prop604

I don't really have gyno im just asking because if one does get gyno should they end there cycle with pct or can they carry on with a strong estrogen blocker (letro/nolva)

Letro would be the best idea to combat gyno issues, if its a prolactin/progesterone issue then you should include bromo along w/ letro

**moush** · 03-10-2008, 05:33 PM

hey Tai based on the cycles that I posted above...would you decrease the amount of test in the proposed cycle? question is based on your post above.

wk 1-16 Test E 500mg/wk
wk 1-15 Deca 200mg/wk
wk 1-10 Tren E 400mg/wk

**taiboxa** · 03-10-2008, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by moush

hey Tai based on the cycles that I posted above...would you decrease the amount of test in the proposed cycle? question is based on your post above.

wk 1-16 Test E 500mg/wk
wk 1-15 Deca 200mg/wk
wk 1-10 Tren E 400mg/wk

when dealing w/ heavy doses of nor groups i always advocate lower test dosages as to more easily control estrogen levels and prevent potentional sides.
you could try 200mg/wk see how it goes.. around week 6 if things arent like you feel they should then bump it up to 500mg/wk (frontload on your first administration of the new increased dosage to bypass the build up phase) and see if that even makes a difference or increases sides.

**lex57** · 03-10-2008, 05:41 PM

along the lines of gyno lets say with npp. i was under the impression that letro did have some ability to help with prolactin/progesterone related sides and gyno. what is your take on this?

**moush** · 03-10-2008, 06:04 PM

would I bump it up just for the first week?

**taiboxa** · 03-10-2008, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by lex57

along the lines of gyno lets say with npp. i was under the impression that letro did have some ability to help with prolactin/progesterone related sides and gyno. what is your take on this?

letro decreases progesterone recpetors up to 20-25% that in conjunction w/ pratically completely eliminating all estrogen from your body works wonders to stop any estrogen/progesteron/prolactin sides from nor groups

**Test-Prop604** · 03-10-2008, 06:05 PM

can one still continue there cycle with gyno though?

**taiboxa** · 03-10-2008, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by moush

would I bump it up just for the first week?

like this
wks 1-6 250mg/wk If results/gains arent as you expected
wk 7 up it to 750mg/wk
wks 8-x run it at 500mg/wk see how things go.. lets say around week 10-11 sides get a little out of hand... such as sweating/insomnia/moodiness
drop it back down to 250

**oneshot** · 03-10-2008, 07:42 PM

im currently running 700 mg test e a week and 350 mg of tren a. im about 30 days in i think. this past week my nipples have been hard most of the time and slightly itchy. their not puffy and dont have any lumps. I have lots of extra a-dex on hand but i dont know if this is being caused by prolactin or estrogen. i can get letro very easily but i would rather use that as a last resort. im bulking so im kinda hesitant about runnig an ai through cycle. its nothing major right now, im just concerned that it may get worse. what would you suggest?

**moush** · 03-10-2008, 07:46 PM

thanks Tai!

**taiboxa** · 03-10-2008, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by oneshot

im currently running 700 mg test e a week and 350 mg of tren a. im about 30 days in i think. this past week my nipples have been hard most of the time and slightly itchy. their not puffy and dont have any lumps. I have lots of extra a-dex on hand but i dont know if this is being caused by prolactin or estrogen. i can get letro very easily but i would rather use that as a last resort. im bulking so im kinda hesitant about runnig an ai through cycle. its nothing major right now, im just concerned that it may get worse. what would you suggest?

honestly, if u can afford it i'd lower the test to around 300mg/wk and up the tren a tad.

**naturalsux** · 03-10-2008, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

honestly, if u can afford it i'd lower the test to around 300mg/wk and up the tren a tad.

how much?

**taiboxa** · 03-10-2008, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by naturalsux

how much?

50-100mg/wk

**wilson9d** · 03-10-2008, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

8.49grams.. go read Hank the Cow Dog you noob .. psh..

Brilliant!

**Elexecution** · 03-10-2008, 11:09 PM

Tai,

IGF-1 LR3 causes hyperplasia, which is splitting of the muscle cells which I'm sure you know. Therefore, isn't it a wonderful idea to take the LR3 right before an AAS cycle? AAS makes existing cells grow, so isn't it very logical that you'd get better results if you run the IGF LR3 before your cycle?

**taiboxa** · 03-10-2008, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by Elexecution

Tai,

IGF-1 LR3 causes hyperplasia, which is splitting of the muscle cells which I'm sure you know. Therefore, isn't it a wonderful idea to take the LR3 right before an AAS cycle? AAS makes existing cells grow, so isn't it very logical that you'd get better results if you run the IGF LR3 before your cycle?

thats the supposed concept behind it... same w/ GH
but the dosages and run time of such peptides just seems to be unreal for hyperplasia to occur.

pinnacle posted a study sshowing that the LBM weight acquired from growth hormone wasnt actually MUSCLE but connective tissue and other ogran tissues.... weird eh?
i have ran EXTREMELY high doses of GH, lr3IGF, and SLIN all in conjunction for almost 6months straight
doses were as fallowed

80-100mcg of IGF AM w/ 4iu GH and 10iu SLIN w/ a PWO type of shake to off set the hypoglycemic episode then a proper pro/carb meal aftewards

4hrs later i would take 4iu GH again

then in the evening i would lift.. and pwo would consist of 80-100mcg of IGF w/ 4iu GH and 20iu SLIN w/ a PWO type of shake..
1hr later proper pro/carb meal

then 4iu GH pre bed

did this pretty much for 6 months.. never took break from any of it .. cept the IGF (ran out for a lil bit and had to re order) i ommited the pwo slin/igf on non training days but still kept the GH at 16iu DAILY TOTAL.

nothing really special happend no new muscle fibers i can see... ASS LOADS of joint pain, carpel tunnel, limbs falling asleeep, crazy ass dreams, and the worlds most GOD AWFUL TMG (my jaw hurt like no other- eating was a chore)

note: i was also on tren , win, deca and eq at this time as well