Tai's Free Cycle Advice...

**Elexecution** · 03-10-2008, 11:48 PM

So you don't believe that there is any REAL benefit to running it right before a cycle, especially when it's only run for 4 weeks at 80mcg/ed? You'd rather use it for pct?

**oneshot** · 03-10-2008, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

honestly, if u can afford it i'd lower the test to around 300mg/wk and up the tren a tad.

i just may have to give that a shot. you dont think that 700 mg a week of test will provide much more muscle mass than 300 would? im gonna bump the tren up to 450 for the last 4 weeks. the sides at 350 are nothin. i would consider upping it a little sooner, but i would run out if I did.

**taiboxa** · 03-11-2008, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by oneshot

i just may have to give that a shot. you dont think that 700 mg a week of test will provide much more muscle mass than 300 would? im gonna bump the tren up to 450 for the last 4 weeks. the sides at 350 are nothin. i would consider upping it a little sooner, but i would run out if I did.

nope i dont .. i have ran test at every imaginable dose... and i can say there is lil difference in 500mg/wk vs 1g ED .. sides are about the only thing that changed for me.

Originally Posted by Elexecution

So you don't believe that there is any REAL benefit to running it right before a cycle, especially when it's only run for 4 weeks at 80mcg/ed? You'd rather use it for pct?

if i was going to use igf it would be DURING cycle and POST CYCLE but not before. hyperplasia does not occur that quickly, its a lengthy ordeal.

**Elexecution** · 03-11-2008, 12:13 PM

Is halo your favorite steroid for strength gains? I look forward to trying it

**taiboxa** · 03-11-2008, 12:23 PM

trens my favorite.. halo seems to be a lil over rated and lil over priced

**Z-Ro** · 03-11-2008, 12:59 PM

Tai what is your opinion on this Deca cycle:

250mg Sust 1-14
400mg Deca 1-12

vs

500mg Test E 1-16
400mg EQ 1-14

?

I think I know your answer and with Test/Deca would A-Dex .25mg ED be suitable or should Femera be utilized? I know that you need some estrogen and a anti-e might knock it too low.

**ecto9** · 03-11-2008, 01:56 PM

Quote ;Tai -"Last one im going to talk about is test... it is the cheapest manufactured injectable and imo the lamest.. it serves no purpose other than keeping boners going and maintaining proper physiological functions. too much = too much estrogen = shitty sides. so you really only need enough test to stay NORMAL .. 100-250mg/wk"

Most here reccomend 500mg test for first cycle. So how do you feel about that?

BTW this is the most informative thread I've read in along time. Thanks for the seasoned advice Tai!

**football2007** · 03-11-2008, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Z-Ro

Tai what is your opinion on this Deca cycle:

250mg Sust 1-14
400mg Deca 1-12

vs

500mg Test E 1-16
400mg EQ 1-14

?

I think I know your answer and with Test/Deca would A-Dex .25mg ED be suitable or should Femera be utilized? I know that you need some estrogen and a anti-e might knock it too low.

Man, I've had several friends take EQ all at 600mg and they all seemed to have minimal gains. If I were to take it, it would be 600-800 range..

I like the first cycle better

**taiboxa** · 03-11-2008, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Z-Ro

Tai what is your opinion on this Deca cycle:

250mg Sust 1-14
400mg Deca 1-12

vs

500mg Test E 1-16
400mg EQ 1-14

?

I think I know your answer and with Test/Deca would A-Dex .25mg ED be suitable or should Femera be utilized? I know that you need some estrogen and a anti-e might knock it too low.

actually ... i wouldnt take any ancillary with the test deca cycle, i'd keep arimidex or letro on hand incase signs of gyno/estrogen related sides emerge but i doubt there will be any prolactin/progesterone issues since ur deca dose i so low and ur test dose (your primary aromatizing compound) is even lower.

EQ is pointless IMO unless your precomp and dying to increase your vascularity. as for gains it can suck mah balls.

**taiboxa** · 03-11-2008, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by ecto9

Quote ;Tai -"Last one im going to talk about is test... it is the cheapest manufactured injectable and imo the lamest.. it serves no purpose other than keeping boners going and maintaining proper physiological functions. too much = too much estrogen = shitty sides. so you really only need enough test to stay NORMAL .. 100-250mg/wk"

Most here reccomend 500mg test for first cycle. So how do you feel about that?

BTW this is the most informative thread I've read in along time. Thanks for the seasoned advice Tai!

bask8case made amazing gains on 250mg/wk of test, though he seemed to respond very very well to aas to begin with and had an immaculate diet/training regiment.
500mg is a very optimum dose for a first time cycle... i think the total weekly dosing (mg wise) for any first time cycler should be between 500-700mg/wk so say either 500mg/wk of test or say 300mg testE and 400mgDeca /wk
i see way to many people throwing in like 3 compounds all at moderately high doses for a first time cycle and their gains are just the same as they would acquire from say a cycle w/ half as much overall aas (though the compound its'self plays a HUGE role in the gains since dht's and nor's are far more potent than test)

but to reiterate, 500mg/wk seems to yield the best gains for least sides .. any higher and there is no increase in gains.. just increase in estrogen.

**bobo0101** · 03-11-2008, 07:00 PM

Tai, I hope its alright I sent my question as a PM.

**Elexecution** · 03-11-2008, 07:16 PM

I hear ya on Bask8kace having an immaculate routine/diet... occasionally i search for all threads started by him via the search feature, it's really a wealth of information... he's got like 10 different threads showing research/studies that were very valuable to me..

**taiboxa** · 03-11-2008, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by bobo0101

Tai, I hope its alright I sent my question as a PM.

talk w/ beast bout the clen

**Z-Ro** · 03-12-2008, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

actually ... i wouldnt take any ancillary with the test deca cycle, i'd keep arimidex or letro on hand incase signs of gyno/estrogen related sides emerge but i doubt there will be any prolactin/progesterone issues since ur deca dose i so low and ur test dose (your primary aromatizing compound) is even lower.

EQ is pointless IMO unless your precomp and dying to increase your vascularity. as for gains it can suck mah balls.

Thanks Tai, what type of dosage would you suggest with the Deca in that hypothetical cycle?

And what other compounds would you add in it?

I may regret asking this one.

**taiboxa** · 03-12-2008, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Z-Ro

Thanks Tai, what type of dosage would you suggest with the Deca in that hypothetical cycle?

And what other compounds would you add in it?

I may regret asking this one.

deca is great because you can see very noticeable gains on 200mg/wk.. but you can also ramp it up to like 1g/wk and still have hardly any sides (im talkin bout androgenic sides- not the prolactin/progesteron but those are easily controlled through your test dose)

so optimum dosing price wise i'd say 400-600mg/wk
test around 200mg/wk

then a DHT: if u got $$ i'd run masteron through the cycle say 300-400mg/wk or so
if ur going all out bulker go w/ drol (fun DHT to run w/ deca)

if your really wanting to get froggy and cant afford to run a good duration of masteron then i would definitely do an oral DHT in the beginning first 4-5weeks then another oral DHT at the end of the cycle right up to pct

here’s couple examples and my last one is going to seem lil unorthodox but its probably my favorite

1:
Front load Deca 800mg on your first week either all in one go or split up into 2 administrations throughout the first week.
dont worry bout frontloading testE- ur just using it to keep ur wee'wee working so just stick w/ normal TRT dosing of around 200mw/k [you shouldn’t have a single issue libido wise since test any injectable is in your system right away... most people just have to wait weeks on end to see results because it has to stack on its self + it has to be in your system for a good duration while you train and diet]
wks 2-11 400mg/deca/wk
wks 1-12 200-250mg/testE/wk

2:
same deca and test dosing but you could run win @ around 50mg ED for last 7 weeks. So basically from weeks 7-14 you would be administering win at 50mg ED which would work very synergistically with deca to add nice LBM to your physique and since its ran right up to PCT (Note: the increase in free test will aid in recovery.)

3:
this is what i would do personally
run test/deca as stated previously
wks 1-5 win @ 50-75mg ED your call
then last 4 weeks (wk10-14) right up to PCT i'd run anadrol at around 50-100mgED (since its a dht as well and is suppose to increase free test as well it should aid in recovery and finish your cycle w/ a nice bang.)

**Facecrash** · 03-12-2008, 02:55 PM

wow, I've never though about test this way. Great info Tai

stats: 29 yrs
188 lbs
5'9
about 9%
have cycled deca , test, tren , dbol , winny, var
question; recovering from surgery on rotator cuff. In May I'm planning on cycling
weeks 1-10 100mg prop eod
weeks 1-10 100mg npp eod
weeks 1-10 100mg mast eod

what can I expect to get out of this cycle? I dont want to pack on weight I just want to rehab and come back to where I was before surgery. Dosages look ok to you? I know you prefer long esters but I have run deca every cycle so I wanted to try npp
thx bro

**taiboxa** · 03-12-2008, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Facecrash

wow, I've never though about test this way. Great info Tai

stats: 29 yrs
188 lbs
5'9
about 9%
have cycled deca , test, tren , dbol , winny, var
question; recovering from surgery on rotator cuff. In May I'm planning on cycling
weeks 1-10 100mg prop eod
weeks 1-10 100mg npp eod
weeks 1-10 100mg mast eod

what can I expect to get out of this cycle? I dont want to pack on weight I just want to rehab and come back to where I was before surgery. Dosages look ok to you? I know you prefer long esters but I have run deca every cycle so I wanted to try npp
thx bro

a few things,
for recovery.. Especially the rotator cuff that involves 4 tiny lil muscles.. your going to want to make sure you stay "Bloated" if you will. the last thing u want is something like win or masteron to dry you out and make your muscles tight/dry/brittle and hinder healing.
deca is GREAT for joint pain due to increase in synovial fluid but for actual healing i would look into IGF for sure. Maybe a low dose of 4-5iu of GH ED and 40mcg of IGF ED for 3months or so.

Short esters are great if you want to get in and out.. but long esters can kick in JUST as fast as short esters if you frontload so i would honestly stick w/ nanderlone decanoate in place of NPP.

Until you’re completely healed I would stay away from any DHT (cept drol) and i would stay away from high androgenic aas's such as high doses of test, or tren. i have heard (but not seen any studies) that strong ANDROGENICS seem to aggravate old injuries which IMO could possibly hinder your healing process.

**jk486994** · 03-12-2008, 03:19 PM

Hey Tai what do you think about this cycle:

Week: Compound: Dose:
1-10 Sustanon 300mg/wk (EOD)
1-4 Mass Tabs 30mg/day
6-10 Tren Ace 300mg/wk (EOD)

Letro on hand...
Will use EOD when problems start to appear...

and ofcourse a proper PCT: Aromasin , Nolva, HCG (if possible) + vit E + Myogenx

Would you change anything about this cycle??
Thankss bro

**taiboxa** · 03-12-2008, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by jk486994

Hey Tai what do you think about this cycle:

Week: Compound: Dose:
1-10 Sustanon 300mg/wk (EOD)
1-4 Mass Tabs 30mg/day
6-10 Tren Ace 300mg/wk (EOD)

Letro on hand...
Will use EOD when problems start to appear...

and ofcourse a proper PCT: Aromasin , Nolva, HCG (if possible) + vit E + Myogenx

Would you change anything about this cycle??
Thankss bro

i'd change alot.. firstly if those are the mass tabs that are supplements and not actual steroids i would assume they are the tribulus based prohormone thingymajigs.. and wouldnt mess w/ em. definetly get dbol or win.

2ndly- Sustanon.. your running 300mg/wk but ur doing EoD administrations? if your using the sust to cut the trenA so it doesnt hurt as bad.. thats fine.. but imo theres no need for such frequency, thats like trying to maintain stable blood levels w/ 6mg of prop EoD (really isnt worth it) i'd do one shot every a week and treat it like regular TRT dosing since your dose is so low (which is fine, thats how i prefer to run my cycles as well)

3rdly- tren is GREAT, but i would definetly run it IN THE BEGINING as a jumpstart since it hits so hard and will get the ball a rolling. i'd take out the mass tabs (not really sure what they are) and i would run either win/drol/or dbol (last 4-6weeks) at the END of the cycle right up to the day prior to the start of your pct

Week: Compound: Dose:
1-10 Sustanon 300mg/wk (E3.5D or 1x/wk administration)
1-4 Mass Tabs 30mg/day (im bewildered lol)
7-12 winstrol 40-50mg/day
1-8 Tren Ace 200-300mg/wk (EOD) you really could probably get away w/ 200mg/wk worth of trenA, i personally have seen gains on 100mg/wk of trenE lol (not AMAZING but definetly got str/hardness gains).

really just depends on how well u respond.

**wilson9d** · 03-12-2008, 07:12 PM

I posted this before and got some good advice from gsxxr, and magic. I would also like to see what you think.

Is 10 weeks long enough?

1-10 Test (prop) 75mg ed
1-10 Tren 50mg ed
1-10 Winstrol 50mg 25mg 2xed
1-4/9-12 T3 25mcg ed
9&10 hgc 2500mg ew

Is 10 weeks long enough?

Pct
4 weeks Nolva 25mg ed and clomid 25mg ed

Stats, 30yo 6'2" bf should be down to 12%-14% b4 I start.

**mx3** · 03-12-2008, 09:25 PM

I am going to extend my cycle an extra 10 wks 22 wks total. and for the last 9 I will be using 250mg test e and ?mg tren a. My question is Ive ran tren at 100mg ed so now Im try raising the dose to either 150mg ed or 200mg ed is there much of difference in terms of gains or will 150mg ed yield the same as 200mg.

**jAcKeD!!!!** · 03-12-2008, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by mx3

I am going to extend my cycle an extra 10 wks 22 wks total. and for the last 9 I will be using 250mg test e and ?mg tren a. My question is Ive ran tren at 100mg ed so now Im try raising the dose to either 150mg ed or 200mg ed is there much of difference in terms of gains or will 150mg ed yield the same as 200mg.

what does your cycle consist of ? i cant find any previous posts :S

**taiboxa** · 03-12-2008, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by wilson9d

I posted this before and got some good advice from gsxxr, and magic. I would also like to see what you think.

Is 10 weeks long enough?

1-10 Test (prop) 75mg ed
1-10 Tren 50mg ed
1-10 Winstrol 50mg 25mg 2xed
1-4/9-12 T3 25mcg ed
9&10 hgc 2500mg ew

Is 10 weeks long enough?

Pct
4 weeks Nolva 25mg ed and clomid 25mg ed

Stats, 30yo 6'2" bf should be down to 12%-14% b4 I start.

wouldnt run win that long.. just unhealthy as hell ... win EATS Your lipid profile and turns it to SHIT
no need for hcg .. IMO unless your fallowing anthony roberts PCT
10wks is ample
stop tren make a week or 2 sooner than test.

**taiboxa** · 03-12-2008, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by mx3

I am going to extend my cycle an extra 10 wks 22 wks total. and for the last 9 I will be using 250mg test e and ?mg tren a. My question is Ive ran tren at 100mg ed so now Im try raising the dose to either 150mg ed or 200mg ed is there much of difference in terms of gains or will 150mg ed yield the same as 200mg.

no need to go above 100mg ED unless you have been in the game for quite some time.
w/o stats or cycle history i cant really help you... also running a cycle tht long isnt ideal in my books though i have done it many times, its quite impractical.

**mx3** · 03-12-2008, 09:51 PM

I got food poisoning a wk ago and lost 15lbs so now im behind schedule so Im trying to make up for lost time.

**taiboxa** · 03-12-2008, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by mx3

I got food poisoning a wk ago and lost 15lbs so now im behind schedule so Im trying to make up for lost time.

dont use aas as a crutch.. its the worst habbit you can acquire.. i assure you

**mx3** · 03-12-2008, 10:44 PM

I know but it has been my goal for so long to reach 225 and I was eight lbs away, I feel like I was robbed. trust me it goes against my judgement as well to do what I proposed but life sucks right now I still have 3 wks to go on my cycle maybe I will gain it back in that time. oh yeah im 5'8 202 12% 5 cycles.

**mx3** · 03-12-2008, 10:46 PM

maybe I will use tren a at 100mg ed for 4 wks on low dose of test so my cycle will only be 16 wks.

**RapaciousShark** · 03-12-2008, 11:02 PM

Tai you know your sh*t dude. I'm coming to you when I get supplies for my next cycle.

**Elexecution** · 03-12-2008, 11:35 PM

Tai Here's what my upcoming cycle is going to look like, after plotting it out for a while.... will begin in May.. Do you think I should make any minor changes? and i have a bunch of IGF LR3 too that i most likely will use in my PCT.. i'd love to use test prop instead of enanthate as i don't like Test E and the water weight in my face it always gives me.. but that really wouldn't fit my goals i'm trying to gain strength and size... I would lower the test dose like you recommend but i'm afraid it'll hinder my erection ability and make my sperm thin and liquid-like which happened to me last cycle for a little while.. i also get recommendations for trenE over trenA frm some of my buddies, which do you like better?

Anadrol 100mg/ed wk 1-4
Test E 500mg/wk 1-12 (frontload 1st week)
Deca 400mg/wk 1-12 (frontload 1st week)
TrenA 100mg/ed wk 4-12
Halo 60mg/ed wk 8-12

**ChuckLee** · 03-13-2008, 09:54 AM

Hi Tai, I'm tryin to plan my cutter for this summa, a short one:

8 weeks Test P @ 100mg EOD
7 Weeks Tren H @ 75mg EOD
6 Weeks Winny @ 50mg ED

I'm 24, 213lbs, 17% bf, actually bulking.
First time for all three compounds, only long esters under my belt.

What do ya think?

**wilson9d** · 03-13-2008, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

wouldnt run win that long.. just unhealthy as hell ... win EATS Your lipid profile and turns it to SHIT
no need for hcg .. IMO unless your fallowing anthony roberts PCT
10wks is ample
stop tren make a week or 2 sooner than test.

how long should i run win? shoul d i run it at the start or the end of the cycle?

**Mr.Wong** · 03-13-2008, 11:51 AM

Hi Tai

This is my fourth week of my first cycle jus wanna be sure I m on the right track here, thanks for the advice.

Male: 32
Week four of my first cycle.
185lbs @ week 1
Now @ 194lbs week 4
Been working out for 13 years

1. test enan 400mg
2. test enan 400mg
3. test enan 400mg Letro.5mg/ED
4. test enan 400mg Letro.5mg/ED*
5. test enan 400mg Letro.5mg/ED
6. test enan 400mg Letro.5mg/ED
7. test enan 400mg Letro.5mg/ED
8. test enan 400mg Letro.5mg/ED
9. test enan 400mg Letro.5mg/ED
10. test enan 400mg Letro.5mg/ED
11. test enan 400mg Letro.5mg/ED
12. test enan 400mg Letro.5mg/ED
13. nolva 20mg/ED
14 HCG 1500 units/wk nolva 20mg/ED
15. HCG 1500 units/wk nolva 10mg/ED
16 nolva 10mg/ED
17. nolva 10mg/ED

**Started letro @ the end of week 2 because I noticed some unusual sensitivity in the nipples, a little swelling and tweeking 24/7 like I jus walked into a meatlocker, noticable through a t-shirt, although no pain or hardening behind the nipples.
**HCG to kick start natural test in order to preserve gains
**Nolva to taper everything off

Note:I substituted cyp for enan on week 3 seemed to lose a little aggressiveness in the gym when I did this so continuing on enan for the remainder of the cycle.

Questions:
1. Could this sensation i am having be a precurser to Gyno?
2. The brand of cyp that I used to sub for enan on week 3 was Cypionax(Thailand) Is this brand pharm grade or UGL?

**taiboxa** · 03-13-2008, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Elexecution

Tai Here's what my upcoming cycle is going to look like, after plotting it out for a while.... will begin in May.. Do you think I should make any minor changes? and i have a bunch of IGF LR3 too that i most likely will use in my PCT.. i'd love to use test prop instead of enanthate as i don't like Test E and the water weight in my face it always gives me.. but that really wouldn't fit my goals i'm trying to gain strength and size... I would lower the test dose like you recommend but i'm afraid it'll hinder my erection ability and make my sperm thin and liquid-like which happened to me last cycle for a little while.. i also get recommendations for trenE over trenA frm some of my buddies, which do you like better?

Anadrol 100mg/ed wk 1-4
Test E 500mg/wk 1-12 (frontload 1st week)
Deca 400mg/wk 1-12 (frontload 1st week)
TrenA 100mg/ed wk 4-12
Halo 60mg/ed wk 8-12

lowering hte test to a trt dose is still much higher than that of which you naturally produce so worrying bout sexual performance should not be an issue.

also as weak as test is frontloading is pointless other than just inducing a major estrogen spike.

tren is great but i would run it from the start say weeks 1-8

halo is great but i would move it to the begininign of hte cycleand use drol a the end (hopefully hits DHT properties will aid in recovery since deca is gonna keep you suppressed)
also shorten u deca a week or 2 or lengthen your test by a week or 2 so that you can make sure all your prolactin/progesterone issues are not a factor in your recovery.

so in a revised version of your cycle

Anadrol 100mg/ed wk 10-14
Test E 300mg/wk 1-12
Deca 400mg/wk 1-10 or 11 (frontload 1st week)
TrenA 100mg/ed wk 1-8
Halo 60mg/ed wk 1-4
i'd also run igf for the first 6 weeks or so and during pct

**taiboxa** · 03-13-2008, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by ChuckLee

Hi Tai, I'm tryin to plan my cutter for this summa, a short one:

8 weeks Test P @ 100mg EOD
7 Weeks Tren H @ 75mg EOD
6 Weeks Winny @ 50mg ED

I'm 24, 213lbs, 17% bf, actually bulking.
First time for all three compounds, only long esters under my belt.

What do ya think?

looks fine.. you could infact lower the testP to 75mg EoD as well and you could extend the win to 7weeks if you wish.
just make sure to get blood work done to see how bad it messes up your lipid profile.

**taiboxa** · 03-13-2008, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by wilson9d

how long should i run win? shoul d i run it at the start or the end of the cycle?

i'd personally run it at the end.. and 7weeks is bout ideal.. no need to exceed it

**taiboxa** · 03-13-2008, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.Wong

Hi Tai

This is my fourth week of my first cycle jus wanna be sure I m on the right track here, thanks for the advice.

Male: 32
Week four of my first cycle.
185lbs @ week 1
Now @ 194lbs week 4
Been working out for 13 years

1. test enan 400mg
2. test enan 400mg
3. test enan 400mg Letro.5mg/ED
4. test enan 400mg Letro.5mg/ED*
5. test enan 400mg Letro.5mg/ED
6. test enan 400mg Letro.5mg/ED
7. test enan 400mg Letro.5mg/ED
8. test enan 400mg Letro.5mg/ED
9. test enan 400mg Letro.5mg/ED
10. test enan 400mg Letro.5mg/ED
11. test enan 400mg Letro.5mg/ED
12. test enan 400mg Letro.5mg/ED
13. nolva 20mg/ED
14 HCG 1500 units/wk nolva 20mg/ED
15. HCG 1500 units/wk nolva 10mg/ED
16 nolva 10mg/ED
17. nolva 10mg/ED

**Started letro @ the end of week 2 because I noticed some unusual sensitivity in the nipples, a little swelling and tweeking 24/7 like I jus walked into a meatlocker, noticable through a t-shirt, although no pain or hardening behind the nipples.
**HCG to kick start natural test in order to preserve gains
**Nolva to taper everything off

Note:I substituted cyp for enan on week 3 seemed to lose a little aggressiveness in the gym when I did this so continuing on enan for the remainder of the cycle. The ester should play no role in that affect.. infact many people do not experience "aggression" from test just irritability from the estrogen.

Questions:
1. Could this sensation i am having be a precurser to Gyno?
2. The brand of cyp that I used to sub for enan on week 3 was Cypionax(Thailand) Is this brand pharm grade or UGL?

i wouldnt use letro unless you are having seroius puffyness/itchiness in your nipps

**Elexecution** · 03-13-2008, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

lowering hte test to a trt dose is still much higher than that of which you naturally produce so worrying bout sexual performance should not be an issue.

also as weak as test is frontloading is pointless other than just inducing a major estrogen spike.

tren is great but i would run it from the start say weeks 1-8

halo is great but i would move it to the begininign of hte cycleand use drol a the end (hopefully hits DHT properties will aid in recovery since deca is gonna keep you suppressed)
also shorten u deca a week or 2 or lengthen your test by a week or 2 so that you can make sure all your prolactin/progesterone issues are not a factor in your recovery.

so in a revised version of your cycle

Anadrol 100mg/ed wk 10-14
Test E 300mg/wk 1-12
Deca 400mg/wk 1-10 or 11 (frontload 1st week)
TrenA 100mg/ed wk 1-8
Halo 60mg/ed wk 1-4
i'd also run igf for the first 6 weeks or so and during pct

When I do searches I always see people saying "Never run more deca than test" and a bunch of shit like that.. why do they think that? and do you like Tren E or Tren A more? The twice a week injections with E would be convenient considering i'm gonna be doin IGF bilateral injections every day as well so that's 3 and sometimes 4 shots a day when i do the test/deca..

The reason why i have the drol at the beginning is because i want to bulk in the beginning and at the end harden everything up and gain lean mass.. i'm gonna have an all out bulk diet for the first 8 weeks and then a lean mass diet toward the end and i know halo assists with making you look harder and doesn't add weight.. maybe winstrol would be the better choice considering the goal of the cycle ... and would you recommend caber, letro or proviron to run throughout? i'm a tad prone to gyno.. thanks

**taiboxa** · 03-13-2008, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Elexecution

When I do searches I always see people saying "Never run more deca than test" and a bunch of shit like that.. why do they think that?

because they are idiotic parrots who do not understand nor grasp the concept that "EXOGENOUS HORMONES do not cause suppression of OTHER EXOGENOUS HORMONES"

Originally Posted by Elexecution

and do you like Tren E or Tren A more? The twice a week injections with E would be convenient considering i'm gonna be doin IGF bilateral injections every day as well so that's 3 and sometimes 4 shots a day when i do the test/deca..

trenE is by far my favorite, far more stable and much more convienent

Originally Posted by Elexecution

The reason why i have the drol at the beginning is because i want to bulk in the beginning and at the end harden everything up and gain lean mass.. i'm gonna have an all out bulk diet for the first 8 weeks and then a lean mass diet toward the end and i know halo assists with making you look harder and doesn't add weight.. maybe winstrol would be the better choice considering the goal of the cycle ... and would you recommend caber, letro or proviron to run throughout? i'm a tad prone to gyno.. thanks

thats fine.. win at the end would be a perfect choice, i wouldnt mess w/ caber/letro unless you are having serious signs of progesterone gyno/lactation

**Boochan** · 03-13-2008, 03:51 PM

First Cycle (6' 180lbs 10%BF, 10 years lifting)

1-4 Dianabol 35mg/day
1-12 Test-E 2x250mg/week

20mg Nolvadex as needed for gyno

PCT
Currently looking at Robert's PCT starting 1 week after last Test-E

Is it overkill to add deca 400mg/week in weeks 1-10 for a first cycle?