Little revision - IBF*?

**Columbus** · 10-20-2006, 09:32 AM

Been following you bro and am interested in your thoughts. Right now I am in a nice bulking phase, all clean with 2 cheat meals a week. about 3500 cals, 300pro, 350c, and 80-100 fat.

Problem is, I am stuck....I went from 150-173 (now) and have kept some ab definition. It was a lot of water weight at first because I was so malnutitirst. Now I believe I am overtraining going 5-6 days a week.

I am thinking of incorporating a powerlifting movement routine focusing on the big four and then an aux. day....If I decide to carb cycle, how would I do it?

If I trained heavy M, T, TH, SUN AN OFF DAY ON WEDNESDAY AND AN AUX day fri and maybe sat...would I go high carb on my heavy days on the day before? thinking about 2 highs, 2 med, 2 low and a refeed on SUnday.

**chuck89gt5.0** · 10-21-2006, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Columbus

Been following you bro and am interested in your thoughts. Right now I am in a nice bulking phase, all clean with 2 cheat meals a week. about 3500 cals, 300pro, 350c, and 80-100 fat.

Problem is, I am stuck....I went from 150-173 (now) and have kept some ab definition. It was a lot of water weight at first because I was so malnutitirst. Now I believe I am overtraining going 5-6 days a week.

I am thinking of incorporating a powerlifting movement routine focusing on the big four and then an aux. day....If I decide to carb cycle, how would I do it?

If I trained heavy M, T, TH, SUN AN OFF DAY ON WEDNESDAY AND AN AUX day fri and maybe sat...would I go high carb on my heavy days on the day before? thinking about 2 highs, 2 med, 2 low and a refeed on SUnday.

If you are trying to add weight and you are "stuck" and not gaining anymore you simply need to add more calories. Carb cycling during a bulking phase isnt going to be as benefitial. also lifting 5-6 days a week isnt overtraing unless you are doing a million sets per body part.

**IBdmfkr** · 10-21-2006, 02:23 PM

Oh, so you're not mad at me anymore Columbus?

Glad that is behind us.

Originally Posted by chuck89gt5.0

If you are trying to add weight and you are "stuck" and not gaining anymore you simply need to add more calories. Carb cycling during a bulking phase isnt going to be as benefitial. also lifting 5-6 days a week isnt overtraing unless you are doing a million sets per body part.

Agreed Chuck.. don't train like this if you're trying to gain weight lol..
RuhlFreak's Training Log

Agreed also on the carb cycling while bulking.. place your calories 500-1000 above your maintenance for the day and you will grow.. if you're already do this and not seeing LBM gained then it is obviously something else that is at fault.. Sleep/Hydration/Quality of foods/Overtraining/Workout intensity etc..
Maybe it's time to change up the routine? (did you say you're doing so?) I enjoy using compound movements to stimulate growth but isolated movements also have their place in a routine so don't leave them out.

**RuhlFreak55** · 10-21-2006, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by I**mfkr

Oh, so you're not mad at me anymore Columbus?

Glad that is behind us.

Agreed Chuck.. don't train like this if you're trying to gain weight lol..
RuhlFreak's Training Log

Agreed also on the carb cycling while bulking.. place your calories 500-1000 above your maintenance for the day and you will grow.. if you're already do this and not seeing LBM gained then it is obviously something else that is at fault.. Sleep/Hydration/Quality of foods/Overtraining/Workout intensity etc..
Maybe it's time to change up the routine? (did you say you're doing so?) I enjoy using compound movements to stimulate growth but isolated movements also have their place in a routine so don't leave them out.

yea cause i haven't gained any weight at all doin that......what the **** ever.......up almost 20 pounds in three weeks

**RuhlFreak55** · 10-21-2006, 02:54 PM

oh and if you're gonna claim that's all fat......then just go look at the numbers......numbers speak for themselves

**1buffsob** · 10-21-2006, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by RuhlFreak55

oh and if you're gonna claim that's all fat......then just go look at the numbers......numbers speak for themselves

Nah bro. Pics speak for themselves.

**novastepp** · 10-21-2006, 03:18 PM

...well... i speak for myself, does that count?

**1buffsob** · 10-21-2006, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by novastepp

...well... i speak for myself, does that count?

No.

**guest589745** · 10-21-2006, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by 1buffsob

Nah bro. Pics speak for themselves.

Exactly.

**guest589745** · 10-21-2006, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by I**mfkr

don't train like this if you're trying to gain weight lol..
RuhlFreak's Training Log

**IBdmfkr** · 10-21-2006, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by RuhlFreak55

yea cause i haven't gained any weight at all doin that......what the **** ever.......up almost 20 pounds in three weeks

20lbs in three weeks!

How much of that do you think is muscle?

**RuhlFreak55** · 10-21-2006, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by I**mfkr

20lbs in three weeks!

How much of that do you think is muscle?

80 - 90 %

**IBdmfkr** · 10-21-2006, 03:37 PM

Just post pics, I'm sure they will speak for themselves.

**1buffsob** · 10-21-2006, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by RuhlFreak55

80 - 90 %

LMFAO!!

If that were only true bud.

**RuhlFreak55** · 10-21-2006, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by I**mfkr

Just post pics, I'm sure they will speak for themselves.

you're not worthy of seeing them

**IBdmfkr** · 10-21-2006, 03:58 PM

I understand if you don't wanna post them.. goodluck with your training, too bad you're so narrow minded.. otherwise I'd try and help get you on the right track.

Best of luck. Hope everything goes well for you, btw don't ask me for contest advice whent he time comes.. you're a prick.

**1buffsob** · 10-21-2006, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by RuhlFreak55

you're not worthy of seeing them

Watch it son. Now you're just being rude.

**IBdmfkr** · 10-21-2006, 04:03 PM

I love to diet down little tubby guys like this, puts their ass in check when they see the end result of what dieting does to a person. Also shows them that the way they train does little to nothing for muscle development.

End result = little skinny kid underneath all the lard.

**RuhlFreak55** · 10-21-2006, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by I**mfkr

I understand if you don't wanna post them.. goodluck with your training, too bad you're so narrow minded.. otherwise I'd try and help get you on the right track.

Best of luck. Hope everything goes well for you, btw don't ask me for contest advice whent he time comes.. you're a prick.

i happen to think the same about you right now

**IBdmfkr** · 10-21-2006, 04:17 PM

Yea it happens.. I'm not here to make friends.. the people who know me on here know I'm only here to help. Not like we're ever going to hang out, I pull info from them and they do the same from me. It's a learning experience.

Your methods are not ideal, I have many reasons to back it up.. do you have the same for the advice that I give? I'd love to have an educated debate with you sometime in a seperate thread, it'd be fun.

**Columbus** · 10-21-2006, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by I**mfkr

Yea it happens.. I'm not here to make friends.. the people who know me on here know I'm only here to help. Not like we're ever going to hang out, I pull info from them and they do the same from me. It's a learning experience.

Your methods are not ideal, I have many reasons to back it up.. do you have the same for the advice that I give? I'd love to have an educated debate with you sometime in a seperate thread, it'd be fun.

I was never mad bro....just friendly discussions.....

**Columbus** · 10-22-2006, 09:47 AM

IB - tell me, carb cycling is out and 500+ cals in for now....maybe I need to reduce the cardio....anyways, what are your initial thoughts of this?

Monday

Flat Bench ( 4x7, add weight each set)
Incline Dumbells ( 4x12)
Dips (3 sets, once you get 3x15 with bodyweight, add some weight to knock reps down to 8-ish)
Skullcrushers (4x10)

Tuesday

Back Squat (5x5, add weight each set, then 1 backoff set of 8-12)
Deadlift (5x5, add weight each set)
Leg Curls (4x10)

Wednesday

OFF

Thursday

Front Squat (4x8, add weight each set)

Lunges (3x8, add weight each set)

Barbell Rows (5x5, add weight each set, then 1x8-12 as a backoff)

Friday

Push Press (5x5, add weight each set)

Close-grip bench (4x8, add weight each set)

Flat Dumbell bench (3x12-15)

Triceps Pushdowns (3x8-12)

Saturday

Back Squat (5-5-5-5-3 (add weight each set, do the triple with 5lbs more than Tuesday's top set of 5, use this weight for Tuesday's top set of 5 the following week)....then 1 backoff set of 8-12.

Chins ( 3 sets to failure, add 1 total rep each week, when you get all 3x12, add some weight to knock the reps down to 8-ish)

Shrugs (3 sets of 12....I prefer jump shrugs, but if you're not comfy with them, regular shrugs will be fine)

Sunday

Biceps and abs

**IBdmfkr** · 10-22-2006, 01:10 PM

I think you could easily put Biceps in with you Saturday routine and take another off day on Sunday to rest and be ready for the week.

**Hackamaniac** · 10-22-2006, 01:40 PM

I feel the love in this thread

**Columbus** · 10-23-2006, 05:51 AM

So overall bro, provided I move bis, you'd stamp this routine and say it is one optimal for mass gaining strategies?

**IBdmfkr** · 10-23-2006, 09:02 AM

Only one way to find out, you'd have to try it/log results each week/try to beat the lifts + reps each week/ then determine if you're growing. It would probably take a month to determine these things.

Get back to us and let us know.
I don't know you intensity in the gym so it's hard to critique a workout online.

Ex: I like the movements but that's not saying you'll push yourself as hard as I do to spark growth.

**Columbus** · 10-23-2006, 09:43 AM

I was just concerned that it was more of a strengthpowerlifting routine than a bbr's ....I realize strength most of the time equates to mass, but just a concern. My intensity is HIGH.....

**Columbus** · 10-23-2006, 09:44 AM

2 months In.....still scrawny.....

**IBdmfkr** · 10-23-2006, 10:24 AM

Damn columbus.. pretty freakin ripped.. add some mass and you're gonna look awesome.

**Columbus** · 10-23-2006, 11:51 AM

Monday
(MINOR REVISION - DELT IS GIVING ME A LITTLE PROBLEM)
INCLINE BARBELL Bench ( 4x7, add weight each set)
FLAT Dumbells ( 4x12)
Dips OR DBELL FLYS (3 sets, once you get 3x15 with bodyweight, add some weight to knock reps down to 8-ish)
Skullcrushers (4x10)
TRAINGLE CABLE X 3
FRENCH PRESS X 3

**Columbus** · 10-25-2006, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Columbus

IB - tell me, carb cycling is out and 500+ cals in for now....maybe I need to reduce the cardio....anyways, what are your initial thoughts of this?

Monday

Flat Bench ( 4x7, add weight each set)
Incline Dumbells ( 4x12)
Dips (3 sets, once you get 3x15 with bodyweight, add some weight to knock reps down to 8-ish)
Skullcrushers (4x10)

Tuesday

Back Squat (5x5, add weight each set, then 1 backoff set of 8-12)
Deadlift (5x5, add weight each set)
Leg Curls (4x10)

Wednesday

OFF

Thursday

Front Squat (4x8, add weight each set)

Lunges (3x8, add weight each set)

Barbell Rows (5x5, add weight each set, then 1x8-12 as a backoff)

Friday

Push Press (5x5, add weight each set)

Close-grip bench (4x8, add weight each set)

Flat Dumbell bench (3x12-15)

Triceps Pushdowns (3x8-12)

Saturday

Back Squat (5-5-5-5-3 (add weight each set, do the triple with 5lbs more than Tuesday's top set of 5, use this weight for Tuesday's top set of 5 the following week)....then 1 backoff set of 8-12.

Chins ( 3 sets to failure, add 1 total rep each week, when you get all 3x12, add some weight to knock the reps down to 8-ish)

Shrugs (3 sets of 12....I prefer jump shrugs, but if you're not comfy with them, regular shrugs will be fine)

Sunday

Biceps and abs

boys, from a bodybuilders standipoint, Im not sure I like the 5x5 movements....granted they are tough, but the rep range seems low to build quality mass...I dont get the pump I like (i know pump doesnt mean much) but I like leaving the gym knowing I NEED my pw shake and meals to come....that my body is thriving for it....I just am not sweatn or burnin during this rouitne....struggling yes, so the weight is heavy, but after Im done Im lik "did I just train or not?...." feel me?

**novastepp** · 10-27-2006, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Columbus

boys, from a bodybuilders standipoint, Im not sure I like the 5x5 movements....granted they are tough, but the rep range seems low to build quality mass...I dont get the pump I like (i know pump doesnt mean much) but I like leaving the gym knowing I NEED my pw shake and meals to come....that my body is thriving for it....I just am not sweatn or burnin during this rouitne....struggling yes, so the weight is heavy, but after Im done Im lik "did I just train or not?...." feel me?

its a different type of failure. it is a failure point of function. you should be able to perform all 5 reps without breaking form, as far as i remember. and that is a great way to add mass.

**JohnboyF** · 10-27-2006, 10:27 AM

yup 5x5 is good combo... a mix of size and strength

your seconday and tertiary excersices should be 10-12 rep with very little rest i.e 30 seconds

i used the 5x5 and felt the same way like iwas not experincing the Pump or doing enough

**Columbus** · 10-27-2006, 10:40 AM

4x8 for deads?

**zodiac666** · 10-27-2006, 10:51 AM

i use low and high reps in just about every workout. i like to start off with low reps going as heavy as possible, but i like to finish with high reps to pump the hell out of the muscle, it just feels good.

also it makes sense to me to incorporate high reps, low reps, fast reps, and slow reps in just about every workout. but the #1 thing is to figure out what muscles you are going to be working, go to the gym and take an hour or so to absolutely destroy those muscles in every way possible, then make sure they have all the nutrients they need to repair themselves.

if after your workout you're wondering "did i just train or not?" something is definitely wrong. i wont leave the gym until i feel i have destroyed my target muscles, of course that should never take longer than 90min at the most. if you are doing that many sets and leaving the gym not feeling like you even worked out then i would say your intensity is probably the problem. just try a few different methods and see what works best for you. if you want to get a good pump just finish up with some high rep exercises, that's definitely not going to have any negative effect on your workouts.

**Columbus** · 10-27-2006, 11:16 AM

Could you give me an example of a mass routine? FOr back....typical for you?

**zodiac666** · 10-27-2006, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Columbus

Could you give me an example of a mass routine? FOr back....typical for you?

different exercises work better for different people but here is what i usually do for back...

warm up shoulders and elbows thoroughly with some very light exercises

wide-grip pullups - 2sets of 10 not to failure just to see how i feel that day, then 1 set all the way to failure and on the last rep i cheat myself up and just hold it with my back arched until my bodyweight pulls me down.

bent barbell rows - pyramid up to my max weight, 1set to failure at about 8reps, then 1 set to failure at about 4 reps, drop weight by about 25% go to failure again, and again, and again until i hit failure with about 95lbs.

wide grip pulldowns - 1 set to failure at about 4 reps and drop weight just like i did on the barbell rows

close grip pulldowns - same rep scheme as wide grip

seated cable rows - same as above

shrugs - 5sets reaching failure between 6-8reps and dropping weight on my last set

i cant remember the name of this exercise, i stand at a high cable with a straight bar and keeping my elbows locked i bring it down to my thighs (similar to a pullover movement) i do 1 set of about 30reps or so just to get a real good burn and pump the hell out of my back.

for some reason i like to do a higher volume with legs and traps, i think my mind/muscle connection with these muscles isnt that great.

just expiriement with different exercises till you find which work best for you, and remember your goal is to destroy the target muscles with maximum intensity without injuring yourself.

also when i first started working out my volume was much higher because i wasnt used to the exercises. as i learned to focus on the muscles better my intensity increased and i had to lower the volume.