* * * IF (intermittent fasting) Diets - post your opinions and experience here * * *

[BloozieStrat]

Welcome Bloozie!

Relatively high caloric intake is the one drawback I see to IF dieting. As you said, getting 3000+ calories in an 8 hour window/over the course of 3 meals is going to be tough for some people. Luckily for me, I'm right in the 2500 range and have a pretty big appetite. Using 3000 calories as an example, i'd do 1500 PWO, then either a 750/750 split, or 1000/500. Taper overall calories down throughout the day. As for carbs, that depends on the goal IMO. If you're cutting bodyfat, i'd personally taper carbs down as well, with meal 3 containing very few. Not that this is right or wrong, it's just what I prefer to do.

Hope this helps!

Great, thanks for the input! I'll keep you posted when I get something a little more official put into place. My girl and I are both wanting to start an IF diet next week.

[Kawigirl]

Hey all,

I'm new to the forums (as you can see from my mere 20-something posts), but I've had a recent interest in IF, so I thought I'd join the discussion.

I've just recently started considering an IF diet, and like gbrice, have been conducting a lot of research, primarily through leangains.com (thanks to gbrice btw for sending me there). I've never been a morning/breakfast person so this format is particularly appealing to me. I also feel like I'm somewhat of a slave to the kitchen as my day tends to revolve around my food (where my next meal is coming from, planning ahead, etc.). My main hesitation, however, is that I currently need about 3,000-3,300 calories/day to maintain my weight. SO, eating thousand calorie meals seems like a pretty large feat when you're eating clean. And, if you're to consume roughly 50% of your calories PW, that seems nearly impossible. I'm not really getting at a question here, I just wanted to throw in some background info.

Also, in regards to females and IF. Martin recommends that women fast for only 14 hours, rather than 16. So, Twist, that may have been an issue with your client (you went the other way, with an 18 hour fast). I think Martin's reasoning is that women typically don't handle the fast as well as men, though don't quote me on this. I just remember reading it, not too good at explaining.....

I'm sure I'll have more to say (questions, input, etc.) as I do more research...

There is a theory to this I would think; pending back during our evolution as a human species. I would agree in regards to my own experience. Though not to say it can't be done.

[BloozieStrat]

Is there a specific weight lifting protocol that you are supposed to follow while on an IF diet? Or can you just follow a standard routine? I haven't been able to find anything on leangains about this. It looks like I'm going to have to follow something similar to what gbrice is doing (fasted training in the morning and then PWO meal about 5 hours later)

Something like this:

5:30am - 10g BCAA's

5:45am - 6:45am - train

6:45am - 7:45am - cardio

8am - 10g BCAA's

10am - 10g BCAA's

11am - break my fast - PWO meal (about 50% of total calories)

3pm - Meal 2 - about 30% of total calories

7pm - Meal 3 - about 20% of total calories

7pm start fast again

[gbrice75]

You can follow your own workout regimen, there is no specific routine you 'must' follow. LoL you'll be on my exact schedule bro! Percentages look good to me. Do you have macros/food choices worked out as of yet?

[BloozieStrat]

Ha... ya, that IS your exact schedule. I just copy/pasted (being lazy).... but mine will look something like that.. lol.

No macros or food choices yet. I'll probably hammer out all the details this weekend. One thing I'm nervous about though is waiting so long to get a PWO meal in. What's been your experience with that? I feel like it's been ingrained in me that I need to get something in my system as soon as possible. Do you find that BCAA's hold you over/preserve muscle?

[gbrice75]

I hear you bro, that's a legitimate concern and I still struggle with it. Personally, I think it would be ideal to have your PWO meal immediately PWO. The reason I don't is because I don't want to start fasting again at 4pm, because i'd have to make it through the night (idle time at home is a big problem for me) without eating a thing. I don't want to go to bed hungry (not that I get very hungry on IF, but I'd actually prefer to go to bed satiated). Plus, i'd like to be able to eat one normal meal with my wife.

Martin designed the program and made certain compromises in order to make it work for the majority of people. He realizes that not everybody works out at 2pm, and I appreciate his willingness to 'bend the rules' in order to make the diet feasible for people like us. Just like the BCAA supplementing; technically, you're not fasting if you're ingesting BCAA's, but it's a small price to pay to keep protein synthesis in action.

I can tell you I haven't noticed any muscle loss, quite the contrary. Increased energy and strength. I guess ketones really do work. Also keep in mind that Martin says protein synthesis actually INCREASES after a few hours PWO, then drops. We're so programmed to believe that you have this 1 hour 'magic window' which, again, is asinine broscience. You're 'starved' body will be more than willing to soak up nutrients after 16 hours of fasting, a brutal workout, and subsequent cardio session. Add the BCAA's in the mix to fight off catabolism and IMO you have a pretty good plan.

[missFit.]

my first post as a new member -- I am interested in IF because I think it would suit my daily schedule- but have never heard of it and want to know more. I want to lose fat and lose it fast. I have tried keto diets before but end up feeling like I am eating too much fat bc there are not many foods to choose from. With fasting, I have always heard that your body goes into "starvation mode" and when you feed after a period of fasting, food is stored as your body's "survival method" - not knowing when the next meal will come. Is this false?

I sometimes struggle with eating a lot at once and then not eating for 5+ hours so I think IF may work for me. Im currently at best guess 20-22%bf - 121lbs - just under 5'3''. I haven't seen much in this thread on women using this diet.. thanks

[gbrice75]

my first post as a new member -- I am interested in IF because I think it would suit my daily schedule- but have never heard of it and want to know more. I want to lose fat and lose it fast. I have tried keto diets before but end up feeling like I am eating too much fat bc there are not many foods to choose from. With fasting, I have always heard that your body goes into "starvation mode" and when you feed after a period of fasting, food is stored as your body's "survival method" - not knowing when the next meal will come. Is this false?

I sometimes struggle with eating a lot at once and then not eating for 5+ hours so I think IF may work for me. Im currently at best guess 20-22%bf - 121lbs - just under 5'3''. I haven't seen much in this thread on women using this diet.. thanks

^ ^ welcome! To answer your question about starvation mode - this is true, but it's not something that happens overnight, or even over the course of several days without food for that matter. The 'flavor' of IF i'm running calls for a 16 hour fast - absolutely no starvation mode to worry about. Starvation mode is much more likely to occur due to severe caloric restriction over an extended period of time.

I believe with women 14 hour fasts are recommended, but i'd have to research that a bit more as i'm not certain. If you're interested, check out www.leangains.com to get the gist of it.

PS - based on your stats it sounds like you are already in decent shape. What are you goals?

[missFit.]

About 3 months ago I was at 17%bf and 118ish and then just fell off the wagon. I'm a small girl, but I want to be a firm girl. Goals=weight doesn't matter much but I am most comfortable around 116ish. BF - I want to get low between 12 - 15%. Advice to make it happen? My diet now is pretty simple, high protein, moderate fat, low carb. This is more or less what I am eating each day....
Meal 1: 1/3c oatmeal + 1/2oz walnuts (14g) w/ splenda and cinnamon + protein (egg whites or a whey shake).
Meal 2: 3-4oz chicken + veggies (salad or brocoli/green beans)
Meal 3: more or less same as meal 2 - sometimes when Im at work I will have a handful of almonds too
Meal 4: greek yogurt + splenda w/ cinnamon & walnuts -- so good! or whey protein shake.
Meal 5: Dinner is later around 7 or 8 (protein & veg - no carb here ).
So I don't have many carbs in my diet as it is. I have hopped back on the wagon with exercise as well, and day 9 of no smoking! I would just like to make sure that I am using the best diet to achieve my goals in the shortest amount of time. I know things cannot happen overnight, but I sure would like them too

[BloozieStrat]

I hear you bro, that's a legitimate concern and I still struggle with it. Personally, I think it would be ideal to have your PWO meal immediately PWO. The reason I don't is because I don't want to start fasting again at 4pm, because i'd have to make it through the night (idle time at home is a big problem for me) without eating a thing. I don't want to go to bed hungry (not that I get very hungry on IF, but I'd actually prefer to go to bed satiated). Plus, i'd like to be able to eat one normal meal with my wife.

Ya, breaking the fast early in the day would wreck havoc on a personal/social/family life. I've never been all that hungry immediately after training anyway, so holding off for a few hours shouldn't bother me physically. However, mentally, it'll be something I have to get used to. But chowing down on a 1,200 calorie meal sounds like fun..! Not sure what my PWO meal is going to be yet, but I'm thinking an enormous bowl of whole wheat pasta with turkey meat sauce... ;~) then fish/flax oil for fat. Or possible Udo's 3-6-9 Oil Blend (I'm a big fan of this stuff).

Martin designed the program and made certain compromises in order to make it work for the majority of people. He realizes that not everybody works out at 2pm, and I appreciate his willingness to 'bend the rules' in order to make the diet feasible for people like us. Just like the BCAA supplementing; technically, you're not fasting if you're ingesting BCAA's, but it's a small price to pay to keep protein synthesis in action.

I can tell you I haven't noticed any muscle loss, quite the contrary. Increased energy and strength. I guess ketones really do work. Also keep in mind that Martin says protein synthesis actually INCREASES after a few hours PWO, then drops. We're so programmed to believe that you have this 1 hour 'magic window' which, again, is asinine broscience. You're 'starved' body will be more than willing to soak up nutrients after 16 hours of fasting, a brutal workout, and subsequent cardio session. Add the BCAA's in the mix to fight off catabolism and IMO you have a pretty good plan.

This is interesting. So does your body actually go into ketosis during the 16 hour fast, despite eating carbs during the 'feeding' phase? I'm excited to see how my body reacts to training fasted. I really enjoy fasted cardio, so hopefully the same applies to lifting.

[BloozieStrat]

I was reading up on the amount of protein the body could absorb at one time and came across this. I think it might be an interesting read for those interested in IF (courtesy of Tom Venuto):

Thirty grams of protein per meal seems to have become one of those "nutrition rules of thumb" that has been passed around so long that it has become accepted as an "unbreakable nutrition law." Some people claim that the human body can only digest 30 grams of protein per sitting (others claim the limit is 40 grams).

There has been a lot of research done on protein needs, although not much of it has focused specifically on the maximum amount digestible per meal. There have been studies where a large bolus of protein was eaten at one time rather than in small, frequent meals, and yet positive nitrogen balance was achieved. This would suggest that the 30 grams per meal limit does not exist and that 60 grams over three meals would allow your body to utilize the majority of that 180 grams.

30-40 grams per meal may be a pretty good rule of thumb for bodybuilding diets with an eating frequency of 5-6 small meals per day (slightly less for females). However, I have never found any research which says that the body has a "30 grams at a time" absolute limit and it doesn't seem likely that one fixed amount could apply to every person in every situation, with no accounting for body weight and activity level.

Nutritional needs - including protein - are highly variable depending on the individual. For example, are the protein needs for a 250-pound bodybuilder the same as a 105-pound ballerina? Are they the same for a 17-year-old football player and a sedentary 70-year-old? The obvious answer is no, and this is why you should look at dietary recommendations made as "absolutes" with caution. Instead, it's optimal to think in terms of customization for each individual.

The best way to figure out how much protein you need in one sitting is to first calculate your total daily protein needs. One gram per pound of bodyweight is a common recommendation (for active, strength-trained individuals), although total protein needs should be customized according to age, gender, body size, lean body mass, activity levels, energy status (deficit or surplus) and personal goals. Then take your daily needs and divide that amount by the number of meals you eat each day; usually five or six in a bodybuilding-style nutrition program.

As a bodybuilder or someone participating in regular strength training, the one gram per pound of bodyweight guideline is a pretty good estimate for daily protein needs (although some competitive bodybuilders go as high as 1.25 to 1.5 grams per pound on reduced carb pre-contest diets). If you weigh 180 pounds and you’re eating six times per day, then bingo – there’s your 30 grams. (180 grams divided by 6 meals). If you’re a 240-pound male bodybuilder, and you eat six times per day, now you’re up to 40 grams per meal.

If you’re a 125 pound female athlete, then 125 grams a day would suffice; spread over 5 meals a day, that’s 25 grams per meal. On a pre contest fitness or figure competition diet, many women eat up to 150-175 grams of protein per day, which, over five meals, is 30-35 grams per meal.

Some people think that the 30 grams of protein "rule" was started by protein supplement company marketing because thats the amount of protein they put into each serving of their product. However, looking at these examples, you can see that 30-35 grams of protein per meal is pretty close to the average amount that's consumed on a typical bodybuilding diet. My belief is that this is where the 30-gram "rule" came from - it's simply an average figure. But just because the "average" comes out to around 30 grams per meal, doesn’t mean that 30 grams is the most that you can digest.

The digestibility rate of high quality protein sources is 94 to 97% and even the protein in grains and beans is 78-85% digestible. Generally what happens with a large meal, including a large protein intake, is that the meal will simply take longer to digest, but the body will increase the rate of gastric emptying and nutrient absorption in response to the larger food intake. So while the 5 or 6 small meals a day is an accepted practice among bodybuilders, there doesn't seem to be any proof that you couldn't utilize the protein if you took it across only 3 meals instead.

On the other hand, if the total amount of protein exceeds what your body requires and if you are in a caloric surplus, you can convert the excess into body fat. Although protein is the least likely of the macronutrients to be converted to fat (due to an energy inefficient conversion process), a caloric surplus will always lead to fat deposition, even if the surplus comes from protein. In a caloric deficit, protein consumed beyond the body's needs for skeletal muscle and body tissue protein synthesis can be converted to glucose through a process called gluconeogensis.

Bottom line: Even large protein servings can be digested and absorbed, and it appears there is no 30 gram absolute limit. On the other hand, huge servings of protein at one time are not necessary for muscle growth. Beyond what is needed for growth, repair and energy, an excess of protein can get "wasted" if you are referring to being stored as fat or burned for energy.

References
1. Plant proteins in relation to human protein and amino acid nutrition. Young V. and Pellet P., American Journal of clinical Nutrition. 59. pp 1203S-1202S. 1994
2. Protein pulse feeding improves protein retention in elderly women. Arnal, M, et al. American Journal of clinical Nutrition. 69. 1202-1208. 1999

[BloozieStrat]

^ ^ welcome! To answer your question about starvation mode - this is true, but it's not something that happens overnight, or even over the course of several days without food for that matter. The 'flavor' of IF i'm running calls for a 16 hour fast - absolutely no starvation mode to worry about. Starvation mode is much more likely to occur due to severe caloric restriction over an extended period of time.

I believe with women 14 hour fasts are recommended, but i'd have to research that a bit more as i'm not certain. If you're interested, check out www.leangains.com to get the gist of it.

PS - based on your stats it sounds like you are already in decent shape. What are you goals?

Martin does recommend 14 hour fasts for women. I double checked that yesterday

[gbrice75]

This is interesting. So does your body actually go into ketosis during the 16 hour fast, despite eating carbs during the 'feeding' phase? I'm excited to see how my body reacts to training fasted. I really enjoy fasted cardio, so hopefully the same applies to lifting.

Definitely not! Sorry, I don't want to cause any confusion. Ketones are by-products that are produced when fatty acids are broken down for energy. Your body can still produce and utilize ketones without being in ketosis. Ketosis is just the 'full blown' version; i.e. you are running on a fat burning metabolism because glucose simply isn't present.

During a fast, our bodies will burn bodyfat (which will produce ketones) as well as dip into glycogen stores in both the liver and muscle. We will never get into full blown ketosis after only 16 hours, however that is not the design of IF, so that's a good thing.

Hope this helps.

Bloozie - good info bro, and I agree with just about all of it. Did you happen to catch Baseline's post about the same? http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-a-single-meal

[BloozieStrat]

Definitely not! Sorry, I don't want to cause any confusion. Ketones are by-products that are produced when fatty acids are broken down for energy. Your body can still produce and utilize ketones without being in ketosis. Ketosis is just the 'full blown' version; i.e. you are running on a fat burning metabolism because glucose simply isn't present.

During a fast, our bodies will burn bodyfat (which will produce ketones) as well as dip into glycogen stores in both the liver and muscle. We will never get into full blown ketosis after only 16 hours, however that is not the design of IF, so that's a good thing.

Hope this helps.

Definitely! Thanks for clarifying man. I was a little confused initially, but this makes sense.

Bloozie - good info bro, and I agree with just about all of it. Did you happen to catch Baseline's post about the same? http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-a-single-meal

Just read Baseline's post. Good Stuff..!! Thanks bro!

[BloozieStrat]

About 3 months ago I was at 17%bf and 118ish and then just fell off the wagon. I'm a small girl, but I want to be a firm girl. Goals=weight doesn't matter much but I am most comfortable around 116ish. BF - I want to get low between 12 - 15%. Advice to make it happen? My diet now is pretty simple, high protein, moderate fat, low carb. This is more or less what I am eating each day....
Meal 1: 1/3c oatmeal + 1/2oz walnuts (14g) w/ splenda and cinnamon + protein (egg whites or a whey shake).
Meal 2: 3-4oz chicken + veggies (salad or brocoli/green beans)
Meal 3: more or less same as meal 2 - sometimes when Im at work I will have a handful of almonds too
Meal 4: greek yogurt + splenda w/ cinnamon & walnuts -- so good! or whey protein shake.
Meal 5: Dinner is later around 7 or 8 (protein & veg - no carb here ).
So I don't have many carbs in my diet as it is. I have hopped back on the wagon with exercise as well, and day 9 of no smoking! I would just like to make sure that I am using the best diet to achieve my goals in the shortest amount of time. I know things cannot happen overnight, but I sure would like them too

This actually looks really good to me. I think if you keep up with the workout out, you'll be there in no time! And CONGRATS on day 9 of no smoking..!! Good stuff!

If I was being critical... You're carbs may be a little low, as carbs are the most muscle sparing macro nutrient. So, if you train in the morning, I would try to have carbs before and after training. Then the rest of your day can be protein/fat meals. Also, nuts (almonds, walnuts, etc.) are very calorie dense, even more so than chocolate. So maybe try to supplement with something like fish/flax oil isntead.. Just my .02... I would wait for one of the 'diet gurus' to critique for additional advice...

[baseline_9]

BUMP

I am going to be following this diet soon...

Currently sitting at 14% BF and around 190 lbs (although Im throwing the scales away with this diet and focusing on the mirror and skinfolds) and I want to get it down to single digit and KEEP IT THERE this time....

I will be using AAS, Clen and T3 although I will not discuss dosages or compounds on the open board


My plan is to do something like this;


THE DIET

This diet is pretty much the same amount of food im currently eating minus 100g Rice which is about 250 calories and I have currently hit a weigh gain plateau so im hoping that will put me in an approximate 250 calorie defecate (250 x 7 = 1750 cals per week.... plus the cardio should get me to around a 4750 calorie defecate each week)


05.45 - Wake - 15g BCAA's

06.00 - Weight Training

FAST ENDS

07.15 - 200g Brown Basmati Rice, 100g Oats, 16oz Chicken, 60g Whey

12.00 - 100g Brown Basmati Rice, 8oz Chicken

15.00 - 12oz Extra Lean Mince Beef or Lean Steak, 100g Brown Basmati Rice, 30g Casein Powder

FAST BEGINS

17.00 - 10g BCAA's

17.15 - 45 min cardio session (10g BCAA's during cardio) (6 days per week)



The Training Program

My weight training will be a Low Volume, Very High Intensity style similar to Yates' program... Normally about 5-6 sets per bodypart...




I believe that Yates is right when he says flick the switch to Fat loss.... By this I/he is referring to creating a 500 calorie defecate overnight, put all cardio in place and start burning fat while your metabolism is still going crazy.

So the Diet, Cardio and Drugs will all be in place from day 1...


I plan to cut for 8-12 weeks (depending on how I look/Feel)




I will keep you guys updated on my results...

Please discuss


Forgot to mention I will be having no cheat meals except a Ribeye Steak on a Saturday with a baked potato

[-KJ-]

Good to see you back logging bro...

Look forward to seeing your cut this time around with your new mass gains

[SlimmerMe]

Yep Base is back~
Good luck with your new plan and I can just see the steaks sizzling....

[gbrice75]

LOVE IT!!! The schedule (you worked it out nicely), the diet (love the beef meal as the last before fasting again, good planning)... as long as you stick to the fast (and that means NOTHING but water, and the BCAA's you're taking before/during cardio, which is a good idea), I think you will achieve excellent results on this diet.

Please keep this thread posted, or start a log of your own - in either case, you know I have a soft spot for IF so i'm very anxious to watch your progress.

[baseline_9]

Good to see you back logging bro...

Look forward to seeing your cut this time around with your new mass gains

Me two

Yep Base is back~
Good luck with your new plan and I can just see the steaks sizzling....

Yep, been off the boards for a bit, focussing on working and eating

LOVE IT!!! The schedule (you worked it out nicely), the diet (love the beef meal as the last before fasting again, good planning)... as long as you stick to the fast (and that means NOTHING but water, and the BCAA's you're taking before/during cardio, which is a good idea), I think you will achieve excellent results on this diet.

Please keep this thread posted, or start a log of your own - in either case, you know I have a soft spot for IF so i'm very anxious to watch your progress.

I think the plan looks ok.... I defo up for thing advise on this IF tho....Even tho there are no real rules

I will probably start a log... a brand new one and show guys what the IF can achieve.... If it is as good as it says it is then my results will show that as I wont be going off the diet at all. Gotta stay sharp to look sharp.... rite?

[gbrice75]

What do you plan to do for your 45 min cardio sessions?

[baseline_9]

What do you plan to do for your 45 min cardio sessions?

Stepmill or high incline power walking on the treadmill.

The stepmill is evil... That thing burns some serious calories. I will probably alternate between the two to keep my legs from burning out from the stepmill

[Sgt. Hartman]

Stepmill or high incline power walking on the treadmill.

The stepmill is evil... That thing burns some serious calories. I will probably alternate between the two to keep my legs from burning out from the stepmill

^^^Agreed. I had been using it recently for cardio while cutting and I hate/love it. I used to watch people on it going at a snail's pace and thought they were just wasting their time going that slow. LOL. Then I started using it. It is impossible to go slow enough on that damn thing to not get a good cardio WO. 45min on level 6 kicks my ass.

Good to see you back in the diet section.

[gbrice75]

Awesome bro... LOVE the stepmill, use it every day!! Best cardio in the gym IMO. And yes, it's an evil beast!! I run through the programs @ 10 mins each, between levels 8 and 10 depending on how I'm feeling.

[overnightworker21]

Any more updates on your progress Gbrice? I am very interested in this diet. I have been led to believe that the 5-7 meals a day lifestyle was the only way to go to get lean and build muscle. My eyes are opening! Very tempted to start this type of diet after all the reading I have been doing, due to you (Thanks!). Only I will be doing my work out/cardio in the morning around 6-7 am. May be difficult with the down time at the house not eating as you mentioned earlier.

And to think I just heard about this diet today while searching google for info for a persuasive paper I'm writing for English Comp. on why you should eat at least 5 times a day when I came across an article about IF diets. Then I searched this forum where I consider you guys the experts on this diet and exercise only to start learning this IF diet is not BS. Guess I can't in good conscious write my paper on that anymore...

[gbrice75]

Any more updates on your progress Gbrice? I am very interested in this diet. I have been led to believe that the 5-7 meals a day lifestyle was the only way to go to get lean and build muscle. My eyes are opening! Very tempted to start this type of diet after all the reading I have been doing, due to you (Thanks!). Only I will be doing my work out/cardio in the morning around 6-7 am. May be difficult with the down time at the house not eating as you mentioned earlier.

And to think I just heard about this diet today while searching google for info for a persuasive paper I'm writing for English Comp. on why you should eat at least 5 times a day when I came across an article about IF diets. Then I searched this forum where I consider you guys the experts on this diet and exercise only to start learning this IF diet is not BS. Guess I can't in good conscious write my paper on that anymore...

Thx bro! You can follow my current progress here http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...2#.TppUhJsUqOk

However I haven't been doing IF dieting for quite a few months. I loved it and will be doing it again, but i'm currently on a very specific regimen that requires me to eat in the more traditional BB style. That said, 5-7 small meals/day definitely isn't the only way to achieve your goals.

Keep an eye open for Baseline who may be starting IF, if he hasn't done so already. He mentioned he may start a log/thread.

[baseline_9]

Thx bro! You can follow my current progress here http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...2#.TppUhJsUqOk

However I haven't been doing IF dieting for quite a few months. I loved it and will be doing it again, but i'm currently on a very specific regimen that requires me to eat in the more traditional BB style. That said, 5-7 small meals/day definitely isn't the only way to achieve your goals.

Keep an eye open for Baseline who may be starting IF, if he hasn't done so already. He mentioned he may start a log/thread.

My life is mad ATM because I am gutting and re-doing my whole bathroom.... However the diet will begin 2moro morning.... Look out for the log 2nite.

[gbrice75]

my life is mad atm because i am gutting and re-doing my whole bathroom.... However the diet will begin 2moro morning.... Look out for the log 2nite.

^^ nice!!!!

[joshh]

Hi guys

I have been on keto for a while now and have seen some good results but I'm wanting to give IF a shot. My diet is currently 1800-2000 cals, roughly 250g protein/180g fat/0 carbs. Stats are 163lbs, 5'9 and not 100% sure on BF%.
I'll be going with 1pm PWO, 4pm and 9pm meals, so 16/8hr fast/feed. I could do an 18/6hr fast/feed, would this be better?
Should I stick to 2000cal? Or should I lower this?
I'm also unsure whether my meals should be high protein and carbs, or high protein and fat.

Thanks

[joshh]

I just cam across this, based on IF. Do you agree GB?



Fat:

The maximum amount of fat eaten per day is 30 Grams. It doesn't matter where the fat comes from, as long as 10 of these grams are in the form of Omega-3 Fish Oil.

Protein:

To determine the minimum amount of protein per day, you multiply your weight by 1.25. Our 200 lb person will need a minimum of 250g of protein to preserve muscle. Sources don't really matter, just be sure to be mindful that you don't exceed the fat limit. Chicken, very lean red meat, fat free cheese and protein powder (whey or casein) are excellent choices.

Carbohydrates:

Carbohydrates make up the remaining calories in your diet. Once again, sources don't matter, just be sure not to exceed the 30g fat limit and be you want to keep sugar below 100 grams. So in our sample person, he is getting 270 calories from fat and 1000 calories from protein. With the caloric goal on lifting days being 3500, that leaves him with 2230 calories left for carbs. Divide 2230 by 4 and you come up with a maximum carbohydrate amount of ~558 grams.

[Doctapeppa]

Hi guys

I have been on keto for a while now and have seen some good results but I'm wanting to give IF a shot. My diet is currently 1800-2000 cals, roughly 250g protein/180g fat/0 carbs. Stats are 163lbs, 5'9 and not 100% sure on BF%.
I'll be going with 1pm PWO, 4pm and 9pm meals, so 16/8hr fast/feed. I could do an 18/6hr fast/feed, would this be better?
Should I stick to 2000cal? Or should I lower this?
I'm also unsure whether my meals should be high protein and carbs, or high protein and fat.

Thanks

Lifting days are supposed to be high carb and low fat with the majority of your carbs PWO and tapered down throughout the day. Rest days are low carb and moderate fat. Protein high on both days. 18-6 and 16-8 won't make much of a difference. Do what's comfortable for you.

For the calories go to google and type in "intermittent fasting calculator" and the first link should be "ifcalc" (I can't post links here yet) fill it out and it will give you what you need.

Good luck.

[joshh]

well according to that ifcalc, fats should be higher than carbs on both workout and rest days..

[Doctapeppa]

Hmmm. Interesting. Well, you can move the slider to get it how you want. I was a client of Martin and he had me on 40/45/15 c/p/f on training days and 25/50/25 on rest days.

[gbrice75]

I just cam across this, based on IF. Do you agree GB?

Meh, not really. I never agree with absolutes like 'must be 30g fat' - so for a 150lb person and a 250lb person both running this diet, they'd both have equal fat intake? That's crazy.

I'm ok with the protein... I usually calculate 1.5g/lb LBM.

Hmmm. Interesting. Well, you can move the slider to get it how you want. I was a client of Martin and he had me on 40/45/15 c/p/f on training days and 25/50/25 on rest days.

^^ this. Different strokes for different folks. People have different bodies, different metabolisms, and as such will have differing caloric/macro requirements.

[Greyeyes]

Im currently giving the leangains approach a try and am impressed with the results so far. I only lift but im planning on throwing some cardio in here once the results begin to taper off. I lift early am like 5-530 completely fasted. My fasts begin at 8pm and end at noon every day. Im very strict with this. When i start the cardio im up in the air as to when i should do it. Should i switch up and do fasted cardio in the am when i usually do my lifting and then lift in the evening after work or vice versa? Does it really matter? My concern is losing muscle mass because if I do cardio when i usually lift i wouldnt be eating until 6 hours later. Ive done some researching and have read opinions that go both ways but do any of you have any experience with this? Martin Berkhan doesnt push cardio with his program but i know my body and my metabolism and i think it will benefit me. Any opinion or advice greatly appreciated.

[gbrice75]

I have done cardio before a workout, but not fasted. I have done both fasted, separately. I would not recommend fasted cardio followed by a fasted workout. And in either case - cardio, workout, or both - BCAA's prior for sure. And after, if you don't eat a PWO meal right away (I didn't either when I ran Leangains)

[Greyeyes]

Alright, so ive decided to stop lean gains for right now because of not being able to fit the cardio into my evenings so instead im lifting fasted and following that with light cardio and then fasted cardio on two of the days i dont lift. All this is of course followed by a good solid food meal. Im gonna see how it goes and hopefully i can drop some BF percentages in the next 3 or so months and then afterwards i will go back on lean gains.

[gbrice75]

How long is your fast with this 'modified' plan? Note if it isn't long enough, you may be short changing yourself of the benefits of a fast, and essentially just having a sub par, unfuled workout.

[Greyeyes]

Hi, on lean gains i eat starting at noon and finish my last meal between 7 and 8 pm. I was very strict with this. I wont eat past 8 pm now either and like right now it is720pm and i finished dinner about a half hour ago. I wake up at 430 am and am in the gym by 530. I usually spend a good 40 to 45 minutes when lifting only. The biggest difference now is the addition of cardio on off days and post workout followed and then eating my PWM between 7 and 730 am instead of at noon. I like lean gains and will continue to implementimplement when necessary like on days i dont go to the gym.

[gbrice75]

I'm too lazy to do the math, my mind hurts lol! Please just tell me how many hours your fast goes on for!!