--->>405<<--- accountability/progress log

**gbrice75** · 10-03-2011, 06:08 PM

Nah, just the macros is fine.

Personally I wouldn't do a refeed with carbs being that high (relatively speaking), especially 7 days/week. I just don't see a need - IMO you're getting plenty of carbs daily.

Tbh I'd rather see you carb cycling, in which case I would incorporate a refeed.

**--->>405<<---** · 10-03-2011, 06:19 PM

carb cycling? whats that where i eat like 150 carbs x amt days then 50 x amt days then like 250 one day then restart?? would u mind telling me what the benefit of carb cycling is?

**--->>405<<---** · 10-03-2011, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by SteM

I guess we need to factor in a refeed day for you. I normally cut with 240g carbs a day so don't feel the need for a refeed but I reckon you may need one.

GB, do you agree? Maybe every 14 days just add 40g carbs to 2 or 3 of the other meals?

if we have the same (or close) LBM how can u cut w that many carbs? how much protein do u eat? how does that work out ? just curious..

**gbrice75** · 10-03-2011, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

carb cycling? whats that where i eat like 150 carbs x amt days then 50 x amt days then like 250 one day then restart?? would u mind telling me what the benefit of carb cycling is?

In a nutshell, yes, something like that. The benefits are that you primarily burn fat while you are on low/moderate carb days, and preserve LBM with the high carb day/refeeds. I will never cut again any other way.

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

if we have the same (or close) LBM how can u cut w that many carbs? how much protein do u eat? how does that work out ? just curious..

Just because you have similar LBM means nothing. We're not all designed the same way. Stem is obviously a lean guy and is lucky to be able to cut on a higher carb diet (again, relatively speaking). Based on your stats, you are genetically predisposed to adding/holding on to bodyfat, just like I am. FYI - my current carb cycle has me at 100g carbs for 3 days, zero grams for 3 days (all fibrous veggies, so not really zero, but no starchy carbs at all), and 250g on my refeed day. I'm currently 190lbs and 10-11% and can't get away with eating higher carbs. Just to put it in perspective for you.

**--->>405<<---** · 10-03-2011, 08:19 PM

total daily macros: 2273/266/154/61

**--->>405<<---** · 10-03-2011, 08:28 PM

wow .. so what should i do? keep rolling with the numbers i have now and see what happens or what? and also say hypothetically i ran a 100c day id still eat 2300 cals just only 400 would be carb and the rest would be split between fat and pro?? (with the exception of fibrous veggies) also is okra an ok veg to eat stewed with tomatoes? its my fav veg so far..

**Back In Black** · 10-04-2011, 04:56 AM

Perhaps I should clarify. I START my cut at 240g a day. Over time that drops to 200g and then to about 180. I can't function at the gym or in my life with carbs set too low. I have an active job, lift 4 hours a week and do HIIT twice a week plus another 2 cardio sessions. I don't see carbs as an enemy. At all. I know how my body reacts to what carbs i ingest and when. You just need to learn that for yourself.

When I did my first cut I lost alot of muscle, I underate for my activity level. It is individual trial and error to find out what works best for each of us. Even when I'm not lean I'm skinny fat if that makes sense!?

So, 405, after this cut you will have a good idea of what does and doesn't work for you. You will manipulate your carbs out of natural curiosity. You will change your training too. But that is a good thing. And soon you'll be the one on here giving advice!

In all honesty I would keep your macro's as they are. You don't know if it's working til you gets your stats checked. When I start my cut I weigh myself on a Tuesday AND Saturday of every week so I know I'm pitched right with my diet. GET WEIGHED!!!!

When you get to a sticking point or, if you are losing too much LBM, then it will time to adjust your diet accordingly.

Okra is fine to eat, a bit gooey stewed but if that's how you like 'em.And tomatoes are a magical food and I eat them on a cut regularly. But just watch you are getting your macro's right on them, they need to be included in your carb intake.

**--->>405<<---** · 10-04-2011, 05:39 AM

Ok so ill weigh myself tomorrow morning.. Should i get bf dun again tonite?? Once a week instead of 2 weeks?? And its funny u say that bout the okra macros.. Theyre the only macros im not exactly sure on.. Skinny Fat.. Know exactly wat u mean.. Exact opposite of myself

im short and thick.. Ur prob tall and thin.. I like the okra stewed w tomatoes myself .. Esp with some hot sauce!! If i werent on a diet id prob throw some bacon and a hamhock in there 2

**Back In Black** · 10-04-2011, 05:58 AM

BF check is up to you really. I wouls suggest you get it done at the same time everytime and even the same day day if possible.

And I meant you need to factor in tomatoes to you macro's.

Okra (per 100g 3.5oz) Raw
Cals - 31
Carbs - 7
Pro - 2
Fat - 0.1
Fibre - 3

**--->>405<<---** · 10-04-2011, 07:06 AM

Cool thx man

now are these okra carbs considered "starchy" oR "fibrous" ???and the same with tomatoes?? Im assuming theres a difference rite? And how should i weigh the difference between the two types of carbs? As far as how they affect my diet?? Sry for all the questions..

**RaginCajun** · 10-04-2011, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

Cool thx man

now are these okra carbs considered "starchy" oR "fibrous" ???and the same with tomatoes?? Im assuming theres a difference rite? And how should i weigh the difference between the two types of carbs? As far as how they affect my diet?? Sry for all the questions..

okra fibrous, tomato starchy (i think, cuz of fructose). i love some stewed okra and tomatoes. here is a little trick in case you didn't know about okra, add a little bit of vinegar to it to relieve some of its stickiness. sounds like you are on a roll bud, keep up the positive progress!

**Back In Black** · 10-04-2011, 08:21 AM

Tom's are pretty much devoid of starch. 4g of carbs per 100g. Just depends how many you eat. And what else you add to the mix!?

I include all veggies in my macro's but there are plenty of people who don't.

**--->>405<<---** · 10-04-2011, 08:30 AM

well as of yet nothing.. maybe some jalapeno peppers.. put in crockpot for about 4 hrs on low.. peeled whole tomatoes, raw okra, sliced jalapeno peppers.. maybe some lean ground beef.. hot sauce

**--->>405<<---** · 10-04-2011, 08:30 AM

oh and garlic powder, black pepper, sweet basil

**--->>405<<---** · 10-04-2011, 08:32 AM

hey thx cajun

i lived in louisiana for about 3 yrs.. as a kid.. crawdad fishing

**RaginCajun** · 10-04-2011, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

hey thx cajun

i lived in louisiana for about 3 yrs.. as a kid.. crawdad fishing

nice!

**SlimmerMe** · 10-04-2011, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by SteM

Perhaps I should clarify. I START my cut at 240g a day. Over time that drops to 200g and then to about 180. I can't function at the gym or in my life with carbs set too low. I have an active job, lift 4 hours a week and do HIIT twice a week plus another 2 cardio sessions. I don't see carbs as an enemy. At all. I know how my body reacts to what carbs i ingest and when. You just need to learn that for yourself.

When I did my first cut I lost alot of muscle, I underate for my activity level. It is individual trial and error to find out what works best for each of us. Even when I'm not lean I'm skinny fat if that makes sense!?

So, 405, after this cut you will have a good idea of what does and doesn't work for you. You will manipulate your carbs out of natural curiosity. You will change your training too. But that is a good thing. And soon you'll be the one on here giving advice!

In all honesty I would keep your macro's as they are. You don't know if it's working til you gets your stats checked. When I start my cut I weigh myself on a Tuesday AND Saturday of every week so I know I'm pitched right with my diet. GET WEIGHED!!!!

When you get to a sticking point or, if you are losing too much LBM, then it will time to adjust your diet accordingly.

Okra is fine to eat, a bit gooey stewed but if that's how you like 'em.And tomatoes are a magical food and I eat them on a cut regularly. But just watch you are getting your macro's right on them, they need to be included in your carb intake.

DITTO! That is how this place works....passing the torch to one another

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

Cool thx man

now are these okra carbs considered "starchy" oR "fibrous" ???and the same with tomatoes?? Im assuming theres a difference rite? And how should i weigh the difference between the two types of carbs? As far as how they affect my diet?? Sry for all the questions..

NO apologies needed. We like curious minds who want to be fed the correct info

Originally Posted by 00ragincajun00

fibrous. i love some stewed okra and tomatoes. here is a little trick in case you didn't know about okra, add a little bit of vinegar to it to relieve some of its stickiness. sounds like you are on a roll bud, keep up the positive progress!

Yep....sure sound like he is to me as well....

**--->>405<<---** · 10-04-2011, 12:37 PM

thx for all the encouragement cajun stem slim GB i really appreciate it.. its pretty cool getting on here everyday and having u guys here going thru with me answering questions and offering encouragement.. it makes it alot easier and i look forward to talking to yall...

well i think i said last nite that i was gonna try to do fasted cardio this am but i didnt.. didnt get off work til 23:00 and didnt get home til about 23:45 and i had to be bak at work at 07:00 so Xnay on the fasted ardioKAY

but i did do cardio at lunch .. and i went against what u told me stem and did HIIT after a leg day LOL.. sry but i wanted to really get it in.. sometimes i drive myself pretty hard but it prob compensates for when im feeling kind of blah..

1/2mile:4:30 jog then: 25 min sprints/ walk ------>>>>sprints/kneel down on the ground gasping for air

and a very short cool down jog.. may still go for 40 mins steady cardio when i get home.. im ready to get this show on the road!

oh 1 more thing i didnt tell yall yet.. i have a doc appt tomorrow to get test levels and thyroid checked.. family history has thyroid probs and i just want to see why i seem to be so tired alot..i go to bed tired and wake up tired and am tired throughout the day which is not like me .. i must admit since i started this program i feel a fair amt better but since i made the appt i may as well go and get checked.. also my outlook isnt always what it used to be.. i did work 3050 hrs last year +about another 1000 with travel and stuff so that may be the cause.. but i figd if test levels r indeed low thats something i want to know.. and if theyre not then thats one less thing rite?? also (and i know what yall will prob say " cuz of ur diet 405") but it seems i should not have such a hard time losing weight.. i didnt used to.. although i am getting older... any thoughts?

**gbrice75** · 10-04-2011, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by SteM

Perhaps I should clarify. I START my cut at 240g a day. Over time that drops to 200g and then to about 180. I can't function at the gym or in my life with carbs set too low. I have an active job, lift 4 hours a week and do HIIT twice a week plus another 2 cardio sessions. I don't see carbs as an enemy. At all. I know how my body reacts to what carbs i ingest and when. You just need to learn that for yourself.

When I did my first cut I lost alot of muscle, I underate for my activity level. It is individual trial and error to find out what works best for each of us. Even when I'm not lean I'm skinny fat if that makes sense!?

So, 405, after this cut you will have a good idea of what does and doesn't work for you. You will manipulate your carbs out of natural curiosity. You will change your training too. But that is a good thing. And soon you'll be the one on here giving advice!

In all honesty I would keep your macro's as they are. You don't know if it's working til you gets your stats checked. When I start my cut I weigh myself on a Tuesday AND Saturday of every week so I know I'm pitched right with my diet. GET WEIGHED!!!!

When you get to a sticking point or, if you are losing too much LBM, then it will time to adjust your diet accordingly.

Okra is fine to eat, a bit gooey stewed but if that's how you like 'em.And tomatoes are a magical food and I eat them on a cut regularly. But just watch you are getting your macro's right on them, they need to be included in your carb intake.

Boom! Spot on, every point made.

**Back In Black** · 10-04-2011, 01:56 PM

I don't do hit the day after legs because it pains me to stand or sit. In fact, I trained legs on Saturday and won't be up for a HIIT session til tomorrow. If you managed it, then kudos to you.

Definitely keep your appointment. I had my test levels checked last year because of some issues. The results came back fine but I was pleased I went otherwise I would have always been wondering. Especially need to go if you have a family history!

Your life sounds pretty manic so it may the reason for the tiredness. Lucky that Mrs 405 looks after you well.

**--->>405<<---** · 10-04-2011, 07:10 PM

TotAl daily macros:2292/267/157/60

Didnt do any more cardio tonite.. Off tomorrow so i will get up and do 45 minutes fasted cardio and then go do chest and back around lunch..

**--->>405<<---** · 10-05-2011, 08:59 AM

Well i woke up this morning an did 45 min fasted cardio.. Went pretty well.. Off work today so i am now about th go do chest and back.. Got on the scale this morning just for th heck of it and i weigh 210.2 lbs down from 213lbs in the first 10 days.. The real tale teller will be sunday when i get bf tested... Am happy with my progress so far.. Lookn like about 2 lbs / week ...

**SlimmerMe** · 10-05-2011, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

Well i woke up this morning an did 45 min fasted cardio.. Went pretty well.. Off work today so i am now about th go do chest and back.. Got on the scale this morning just for th heck of it and i weigh 210.2 lbs down from 213lbs in the first 10 days.. The real tale teller will be sunday when i get bf tested... Am happy with my progress so far.. Lookn like about 2 lbs / week ...

PERFECT! and on track.....keep it up and you will see the scale continue to go down down down.....

**Back In Black** · 10-05-2011, 09:14 AM

2lbs a week by the time Santa comes and you'll be over 20lbs down. That, sir, will be an excellent start!

**--->>405<<---** · 10-05-2011, 10:47 AM

Thx slim...stem.. Just got thru lifting... Hit it hard today..
Supersetted:flat dumbell bench
Incline cable flyes
Incline dumbell bench
Pec dEck machine

Back: bent t bar rows
Wide grip lat pulldown
Reverse cable flyes
Lawnmowers

Did 3 supersets back and 4 supersets chest 10 reps/ set

Doc appt at 13:20

Been a good day so far

**--->>405<<---** · 10-05-2011, 06:25 PM

Total daily macros:2223/270/168/47

Well day 10 is completed.. Stayd 100% on diet thus far which is good cuz im committed... UsuAlly lately i would allow myself "just a bite here or there" but not this time.. Really hoping the bf chek sunday is good... Was nice being off today and getn 45 min cardio and lift dun by noon.. Almost felt like an off day this afternoon cuz i didnt have Nything to do.. Tomorrow is cardio only day.. Prob gonna do hiit session at the park during lunch... Should get blood work back monday...not a big fan of the doctor...Hope everyone is doing well ..

**--->>405<<---** · 10-05-2011, 07:14 PM

Hey stem and gb..not to get off subject here and i am aware i have a long way to go first but i was reading a few other posts on here and had a few questions pop in my head.. First off let me say i have always had a struggle with bf so that being said even when i was around 16% and lifting i only ate what i considered to be "diet" food whike i was lifting and the concept of maintenance calories and what not i didnt even know existed.. I have always only seemed to be able to put on so much muscle and thats where it ended.. I am beginning to understand that the readon why that was is because in order to gain more muscle i needed to eat more food?? Rite?? So once i get my bf down to say 12% then i can change my diet to actually get bigger than i have been able to do previously by eating above my maintenance calories?? And if so what is the process? Do u do that for a period of time and then cut calories back to drop bf and hopefully hang onto muscle and then repeat and repeat ?? Where my maintenance calories over time will continue to go up and up ?? And would that also go along the lines with my strength as in now my max bench is 315lbs but as my lbm and maintenance calories go up then also should the amt of weight im able to lift climb in proportion?? And will all thise previously included go up umtil i finally reach a " ceiling" that i cannot surpass naturally which is why some people then choose to add AS to the mix in order to continue climbing?? Hope this isnt too long and thx ahead of time for reading all this...

**--->>405<<---** · 10-06-2011, 08:54 AM

Well not a great start to the day.. At work waiting for a tow truk to come get my car... 2nd time in 15 days.. So much for lunchtime hiit.. Guess ill have to do moderate 45 mins at home tonite...

**gbrice75** · 10-06-2011, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

Hey stem and gb..not to get off subject here and i am aware i have a long way to go first but i was reading a few other posts on here and had a few questions pop in my head.. First off let me say i have always had a struggle with bf so that being said even when i was around 16% and lifting i only ate what i considered to be "diet" food whike i was lifting and the concept of maintenance calories and what not i didnt even know existed.. I have always only seemed to be able to put on so much muscle and thats where it ended.. I am beginning to understand that the readon why that was is because in order to gain more muscle i needed to eat more food?? Rite?? So once i get my bf down to say 12% then i can change my diet to actually get bigger than i have been able to do previously by eating above my maintenance calories??

Pretty much, yes. My advice would be to strip the bodyfat first, then adjust calories to slowly start adding muscle while maintaining the lowered bodyfat percentage.

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

And if so what is the process? Do u do that for a period of time and then cut calories back to drop bf and hopefully hang onto muscle and then repeat and repeat ?? Where my maintenance calories over time will continue to go up and up ??

Right now you need to cut, no doubt. Once you readjust to start adding mass, there's no reason to have to keep 'cycling' - i.e. the old bulk/cut/bulk/cut thing is ridiculous IMO. With discipline, you can slowly add mass and maintain your bodyfat, negating the need to run a hardcore cut for any extended period of time. There may be times you need to adjust/lower calories to shed a bit of fat, but it shouldn't get to a point where it has to become an all out max effort again and again.

Maintenance calories will have to be adjusted as your body composition changes.

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

And would that also go along the lines with my strength as in now my max bench is 315lbs but as my lbm and maintenance calories go up then also should the amt of weight im able to lift climb in proportion??

No, not necessarily. There's no direct correlation. Tbh, if it's strength you're most concerned with, then you should really reconsider what you want to get out of all of this. You can train for strength, but in my experience the strongest guys aren't usually the best looking per se. i.e. the ripped cut bodybuilder looking guys usually don't have huge lifts, relatively (and very generally) speaking of course.

For me personally, I don't care if I have the weakest bench in the gym - as long as I LOOK like I have the strongest!

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

And will all thise previously included go up umtil i finally reach a " ceiling" that i cannot surpass naturally which is why some people then choose to add AS to the mix in order to continue climbing?? Hope this isnt too long and thx ahead of time for reading all this...

At some point, we all reach our genetic potential. If at that time you feel you want more out of this, AAS is an option to look into. Personally, I think you have a long way to go before you hit that crossroad.

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

Well not a great start to the day.. At work waiting for a tow truk to come get my car... 2nd time in 15 days.. So much for lunchtime hiit.. Guess ill have to do moderate 45 mins at home tonite...

Sucks man. But, don't sweat the small stuff. Keep your eye on the prize, do the best you can in any given situation and you'll fare well.

**--->>405<<---** · 10-06-2011, 10:31 AM

Hey thx GB .. Yeh im not sweatn the car.. Think im gonna get rid of it.. I appreciate all the clarification.. I think i have a fair understanding now.. One thing i read in particular was a guy talking about "priming?" other than that i will continue on my journey to 12% bf (hopefully) and then with u guys help reevaluate...

**--->>405<<---** · 10-06-2011, 07:32 PM

Well long day finally over ... Total daily macros:2343/277/169/55

Did manage to get my 45 min moderate cardio in.. Just finished.. Eatn cott chee n natt pb and getn reDy for bed.. See yall tomorrow...

**Back In Black** · 10-07-2011, 04:02 AM

Well done dude, weigh in in only 2 days, keep it up.

BTW, our macro's are now almost exactly the same. I prob have 10g extra carbs but about 30g less protein. I am now unly losing up to 1lb a week but am probably on my last 5lbs to lose. Maybe I should start a log of that.

**gbrice75** · 10-07-2011, 05:09 AM

Would like to see your log Stem. Is your avy how you currently look? If so, u wanna lose 5 more lbs on top of that? Where are they gonna come from? lol!

**Back In Black** · 10-07-2011, 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

Would like to see your log Stem. Is your avy how you currently look? If so, u wanna lose 5 more lbs on top of that? Where are they gonna come from? lol!

Ha ha, no I don't look like that right now. But in 5lbs or so I should (minus the tan). Had a crap year with back problems and other crises and have pretty much lost 7 months of progress. Very back on track and, I hit the small four 0, 6 weeks today!

**--->>405<<---** · 10-07-2011, 06:55 AM

good morning guys (and slim)

.. well todays a new day.. my car is dead LOL have to buy another one.. no worries we were a 3 car family so i have another one.. anyways thx stem and i would also like to see ur log.. wasnt sure if that was u in ur avy but i thought it mite be.. ill be glad when i look good enuff to put myself in my avy

YES! weigh in sunday! i guess well have some good answers then as to whether or not our approach is on target?? hope the bf comes out well.. i am sure the weight is dropping.. i was gonna do arms and shoulders today but i have to go get the stuff outta my car at lunch so itll be a cardio only day again and ill do my 3rd lift of the week tomorrow..

**RaginCajun** · 10-07-2011, 08:25 AM

your doing fine, consistency is the key to this stuff. keep it up!

**--->>405<<---** · 10-07-2011, 08:51 AM

well guys im cutting to the core today at lunch.. i have an appt to get bf checked at a place with a thing called a "bod pod" that measures bf with air... supposed to be the most accurate way to measure it.. will be interested to see what it says mine is compared to the 22% i got with the calipers.. stay tuned.. should have numbers around 13:00

**SlimmerMe** · 10-07-2011, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

good morning guys (and slim)

.. well todays a new day.. my car is dead LOL have to buy another one.. no worries we were a 3 car family so i have another one.. anyways thx stem and i would also like to see ur log.. wasnt sure if that was u in ur avy but i thought it mite be.. ill be glad when i look good enuff to put myself in my avy

YES! weigh in sunday! i guess well have some good answers then as to whether or not our approach is on target?? hope the bf comes out well.. i am sure the weight is dropping.. i was gonna do arms and shoulders today but i have to go get the stuff outta my car at lunch so itll be a cardio only day again and ill do my 3rd lift of the week tomorrow..

that will work when all else gets in the way. Life happens. And good morning to you too!

Looking forward to your BF results. Kudos for doing it. This way you have a before.....so then your future avy becomes the after!

**--->>405<<---** · 10-07-2011, 12:11 PM

OK the verdict is in...and its ugly

26.6%BF
73.4%LBM

LBM=71.25kg

370 + (21.6 x 71.25)= 1909 x 1.55 = 2959 TDEE

NOW let me say i have an acquaintance i work with who is currently an amateur bodybuilder. He has won every contest in Ga. there is to win as an amateur and hes planning on going to nationals so he can turn pro..I was talking to him today and he told me that at my weight i should be eating like 370p/165c/65f to lose fat and keep LBM.. he also told me what he suggests to be done (and he apparently did this with a guy he said was 25% bf and got him down to 11%bf in 8 weeks with the help of ECA and Clen ) was to eat :

days 1-3: 0g carb
days 3-6 70g carb
day 7: 200g carb

then repeat..all the while maintaining tdee with strictly protein other than the carbs on the 4 days i consume carbs and on the days i dont consume any carbs eating only meat .. he said this would accelerate my fatloss .. also said to either do fasted cardio or cardio PWO only..

Stem and GB i really would like to hear yalls opinion on this as i am definitely wanting to shed bf ASAP and willing to work hard to do it.. thx guys

**Back In Black** · 10-07-2011, 12:58 PM

Ah, I see the gremlins and doubts are creeping in already?! Bad news for you on the bf reading but we are more concerned about the final destination rather than the start point. Can you get your bod pod done free?

Your colleague is referring to a carb cycling diet, and there's nothing wrong with them, GB uses a form of it. Swears by it. Doesn't work for me, I'm the type of person that needs to eat the same everyday, it's the only thing that keeps me on track. Too much confusion on prep of food for me with a cycling approach. But it does work for some.

Down 14% in 8 weeks is a little tough to believe but possible if training and diet and clen and eca is all part of the equation. I've tried clen and eca and tbh, I won't bother again. If I did, it wouldn't be til my bf was relatively low anyway.

If I can refer you to my little transformation which I reckon I could now do within 3-4 months with what I learned from that and subsequent cuts. Using the same principles you are following.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...se.&highlight=

As for fasted OR PWO, there are studies to suggest 2 cardio sessions a day will yield greater fat loss results. If it works for you, do both. If you struggle for time and can only do one, do one.

In all honesty, the choice is yours. Do either but not both. Pick one and stick to it until you reach your goals or hit a true sticking point.

You've already started getting into a routine with your diet, I would give it at least 6 weeks and see how you go.