Smallest effective dosage

**zaggahamma** · 06-06-2010, 12:39 AM

good news bro

congrats on the chiseling

**BOB89** · 06-07-2010, 01:19 AM

funny thing is that I really don't see it even looking in the mirror. Now if I take an older picture I see it right off. I guess we learn to see whats in front of us day to day and don't notice the changes.

I really think that extra BF% was the issue with my E2 being slightly out of spec. Since its dropped the acne is basically gone. Of course it could be any of the other things I've done to prevent it as well or a combo of them.

**BOB89** · 07-05-2010, 12:55 AM

Well had to make a small change in my dosing. I phone ordered a refill last week and went to pick it up a couple days later at Walmart. They said they didn't have any test at all and that they might get some early the following week.

So I went back and they handed me 6 1 ml vials of a dif manufactor. This is instead of my 10ml of watson I had been getting. They said they will not have a regular supply for the for see able future and I needed to order a week or more ahead.

Well a 1 ml vail is a bitch to deal with when your using odd amounts several times a week. So I'm goign to try a 200ml on a every 7 day schedule for a while. I still have a full 10ml sitting but I think I'll use up these 1 ml vials leading up to my Dr appointment in early August. I have blood work the last week of July. So we'll see what kind of numbers I have at that time. then I'll talk to the dr to see what can be done to avoid shortages in the future if anything.

**zaggahamma** · 07-05-2010, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by BOB89

Well had to make a small change in my dosing. I phone ordered a refill last week and went to pick it up a couple days later at Walmart. They said they didn't have any test at all and that they might get some early the following week.

So I went back and they handed me 6 1 ml vials of a dif manufactor. This is instead of my 10ml of watson I had been getting. They said they will not have a regular supply for the for see able future and I needed to order a week or more ahead.

Well a 1 ml vail is a bitch to deal with when your using odd amounts several times a week. So I'm goign to try a 200ml on a every 7 day schedule for a while. I still have a full 10ml sitting but I think I'll use up these 1 ml vials leading up to my Dr appointment in early August. I have blood work the last week of July. So we'll see what kind of numbers I have at that time. then I'll talk to the dr to see what can be done to avoid shortages in the future if anything.

plus u lost 4ml....i would have had it transferred if possible...maybe find a pharm thats got their shiat together

**BOB89** · 07-08-2010, 02:25 AM

i didn't lose any, they showed it as a partial fill. So when they get more I get 4 more vails.

But I have decided not to go wtih 200mg a week in one dose. I got about 5-6 days in and felt terrible may have been something else but figured its worth the trouble dealign with pulling from those tiny vials to not even think about it being the issue.

And the issue of supply comes up when trying to find another local pharm. My insurance pays for Walmart. And anythign else comes out at an increased cost unless walmart just doesn't carry it. Note I used the words carry not have on hand. And regardless of whether they have any Walmart carries Test C. I only have 3 weeks til I'm in the Dr office and I'll see about getting a second script for Test E or something to have on hand in case Walmart runs out. He over supplies me with C anyway with a script for 10ml a month(I use less than 5). So I may just need to fill it every month and build a stock pile. I always stayed1 vial ahead anyway, may stay 2 or 3 ahead for awhile.

**zaggahamma** · 07-08-2010, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by BOB89

i didn't lose any, they showed it as a partial fill. So when they get more I get 4 more vails.

But I have decided not to go wtih 200mg a week in one dose. I got about 5-6 days in and felt terrible may have been something else but figured its worth the trouble dealign with pulling from those tiny vials to not even think about it being the issue.

And the issue of supply comes up when trying to find another local pharm. My insurance pays for Walmart. And anythign else comes out at an increased cost unless walmart just doesn't carry it. Note I used the words carry not have on hand. And regardless of whether they have any Walmart carries Test C. I only have 3 weeks til I'm in the Dr office and I'll see about getting a second script for Test E or something to have on hand in case Walmart runs out. He over supplies me with C anyway with a script for 10ml a month(I use less than 5). So I may just need to fill it every month and build a stock pile. I always stayed1 vial ahead anyway, may stay 2 or 3 ahead for awhile.

cool....and thats what i did and most do (stock pile) with their rx

**BOB89** · 07-12-2010, 09:10 PM

stock piling begins next week when I can order another 10ml.

I'm in for blood work in a week and a half. It will be day of shot. Need to still call and make sure I'm getting E2 done as it isn't standard for my dr.

been in the sun alot recently and half just a spot or two of acne on my sholders. nothing major and I only mention it in regards to the E2 check I want done. I have decided if E2 is still high and I can't get a script from my dr. I will probably go the liquidex route.

**BOB89** · 07-19-2010, 04:04 AM

Spent some time trying to find any information about the Test shortage that the US seems to be having. Found this from the American Society of Health-System Pharmacists.

http://www.ashp.org/Import/PRACTICEA...in.aspx?id=638

seems that a few companies expect to have some test out there in late july(TEVA)

**ultrasharp** · 07-19-2010, 01:57 PM

How long has anyone stayed on these prescriptions/injections and for what length do you think you'll continune with them. If anyone has stopped cold turkey with theirs, how have you felt. Reason I'm asking is I have a scheduled appt in few weeks with my doc and these are some questions that i'd like to ask.

**ReBilly** · 07-19-2010, 04:28 PM

If I miss my shot, by day 9 I crash and it takes 2 weeks for me to get back to feeling more normal. My total test wasn't even that low when I started (474) and I was getting 180 / week. At that dose, my level was stable around 800ish total. When I added HCG the same dosage had me floating around 1000 and I started converting so I had to drop my dose to 160 / week and added Arimidex . Not sure where my levels are yet but I feel OK again.

That being said, I can't see your dosages and your timing being a very effective cure for your low T symptoms. You *probably* won't even get your total T very high, and will likely be subject to repeated crashes.

There's a good reason why the normal protocol most everybody follows is a weekly shot with some even doing 2x / week. Because your body is gonna use it all up and you'll be low every time you shoot instead of letting it get to a good level and stay there.

Just my 2 cents

**ReBilly** · 07-19-2010, 04:32 PM

Sorry, I didn't realize this post had 4 pages and I responded only to page one so I probably sound like a moron. Glad you're dialing it in :-)

**BOB89** · 07-22-2010, 12:38 AM

Its ok there is always at least one moron here everytime I check in

**BOB89** · 07-26-2010, 10:44 PM

Had some intresting things going on this last week. I stopped by my pharamcy about the first of last week, they said that they currently had no test C but should have some later in the week. I went back on Sat to fill my script. At the counter the girl told me that they had 8 1cc vials however they couldn't actaully give them to me right now. She explained that since they didn't have enough test at the moment i had to wait til one month after my last fill date. Which was two days later. Normally I can refill within a week of my "due date"

So I went back today and the same girl told me that they had my test but now my insurance was being difficult. I then found out that the special aurthorazation for my test that my insurance had given me had expired. It was fixed in a quick phone call but was frustrating none the less.

On top of that today was bloodwork day for my appointment next week. They only took two vials this time and no urine so I'm not sure what tests were being run. My insurance only pays for so many dif tests a year so we'll see what was run.

I've banked around 12mls on top of what I picked up today. I should have a new script next week and I'll try to keep it above what I actaully take so I can bank some more just to be safe. Although I must say its tempting to consider a cycle when I have this much just sitting around.

**Vettester** · 07-26-2010, 10:58 PM

Sounds frustrating to say the least. I hear ya man, I received my new order last week, which included a 10ml bottle of cyp. They must have wanted to make sure that I don't lose sleep with any of these shortages, so they sent me an extra 2 bottles = 20ml para gratis. Guess I'm set for another deca run down the road in a few months.

**BOB89** · 07-27-2010, 12:05 AM

Vetteman, do you get yours from Compounding pharm or regular pharm via mail order?

**Vettester** · 07-27-2010, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by BOB89

Vetteman, do you get yours from Compounding pharm or regular pharm via mail order?

Yeah, it's compounding. Guess some of the shortage stuff is just name brands only.

**BOB89** · 07-28-2010, 12:30 AM

thats what it appears. Although the pharmacy did have 100mg strength on hand which they said was unusual. The link I posted said that some of the manufactors were going to start putting 100mg back in stock around the end of July so it sort of makes sense.

I won't have a problem using 100mg as long as I got the total I needed. I've never felt a dif between injecting <1cc and injecting up to 3ccs(t adn Bcomplex)as far as pain goes.

I've considering asking about a compounding pharamcy but I'm pretty sure insurance would balk at paying for it.

**BOB89** · 08-08-2010, 03:44 AM

Well went to the doctor Friday and got my lab results and such.

Everything but t and e2 were well within spec.

With
Test being 1100 with a <850 range
E2 being 85 with a <52 range

Well we discussed options and such as well as my continued fight with some bacne. We came together with a slight cut to my Test C to .4cc every 5 days(was at .5 e5d) and adding in Adex as .25 e3d to start. THen at 1 month we will look at where I am, how I'm feeling and adjust. The Adex dosage is a tad low by some standards but I function sexually fine even at the moment being in the almost double reccomended range and figure a slight descrease followed by an adjustment was a better course of action than trying to hit the nail on the head on the first pitch.

As far as the Bacne we both have little doubt its an e2 related problem and once E2 is back well with in range if it continues I'll probably be refered to a dermotologist.

He didn't balk at the 1100 score and said although it was high he was still good with it. THe E2 was only a slight concern and I had to push a little more for the adex instead of just a cut to my test c. Which is how we ended up with both.

I'm not sure how the adex is going to affect me and am honestly a little concerned about sexual sides. He offered a script for viagra just in case to get me by but I just had him note it so I could call it in to his office if I needed it until I could adjust to the change in levels. I don't have a e2 number from when I started TRT but functioned fine at that point so like I said I'm going to be gentle on dropping it.

**zaggahamma** · 08-08-2010, 12:03 PM

i like the plan....keep us posted

**BOB89** · 08-09-2010, 07:13 PM

well called today to see if insurance was going to cover my script. My dr forgot to include dosing on the script(it was for 5 1mg tabs or about 6 weeks or so). So they put in a call to him and I should know tomorrow. I mention this because it may infact be much much cheaper for me to obtain A-dex as a research chem then through a pharamacy even with a script and possibely even with my insurance.

**zaggahamma** · 08-09-2010, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by BOB89

well called today to see if insurance was going to cover my script. My dr forgot to include dosing on the script(it was for 5 1mg tabs or about 6 weeks or so). So they put in a call to him and I should know tomorrow. I mention this because it may infact be much much cheaper for me to obtain A-dex as a research chem then through a pharamacy even with a script and possibely even with my insurance.

insurance usually covers it to a mild copay as it is name brand only at the present...
i've heard a couple post where the insurance co. was whining about "its for women only"...blah blah blah...when i had insurance they paid it all but 25 bucks this was for 30 pills which prolly goes for 300 if out of pocket (rough estimate)

**BOB89** · 08-10-2010, 03:19 AM

my insurance is fairly easy to deal with but requires an expemtion for some scripts, such as my test. I can only beleive that they will also cover the adex, but at around 60 for 30mgs as a RC, I'm betting the price is higher than my copay on the same amount.

My Dr is just fine with me using a research version of Adex.

**BOB89** · 08-13-2010, 06:58 PM

The adex ended up being a non-issue to get. Co-pay per month no other issues.

I took .5 of the adex yesterday and will continue at .25 every three days.

ON the test I decided to not drop to .4 every 5 days but instead go to .5 every 6. This is because I'm still getting those damn little 1cc bottles at the Pharamcy. So to doses per bottle is alot easier than trying to get .2 out of bottle.

I'm going to do some searching myself but what is the half life of E2 and also A-dex? Curious as to when I might notice a change. Even over the last day and a half I feel like my face has lost 3lbs itself. Maybe I was bloated and maybe its all in my head.

**ds53** · 08-13-2010, 09:24 PM

Test Cyp in me takes a nose dive after day 5. After discussion with dr he had no problem with me taking my dose on day 5 instead of 7. It made quite of bit of difference as my blood levels were more stable and didnt have the couple days of being so randy only to be down by day 7. No more mood swings and alway feeling strong. It makes your blood test more accurate and easier to find the right dosage. The half life of cyp is 6-7 days, with a active life of 15 days. Most charts I have looked at confirm that blood levels really start dropping on day 5 or 6. My testicles actually came back to normal size after a few months of keeping my test leveled out.

**BOB89** · 08-14-2010, 02:03 AM

Well a little bit of internetting gave me the answers I was looking for(I think) it appears that A-dex's half life is right at 72 hours or 3 days, so I should be dead on using it every 3 days. E2 appears to be every 13 hours up to 36 hours depending on the source of information.

**BOB89** · 08-18-2010, 11:01 PM

Well I've now been on the A-dex through 3 doses. So far I've noticed that my back has less active bacne going on. I would attribute this to the A-Dex but I was also in the sun for several days and that tends to clear me up as well.

I have noticed a marked drop off in the gym. Today I ended up having to drop 10% out of my squats sets to get through them. Not sure if its the A-Dex or simply an off day. Anyone have any experience in performance drop off after starting a-dex?

other things such as sexual function and mental outlook seem to be unchanged, which is good.

**BOB89** · 08-24-2010, 02:03 AM

I am considering going to .25 eod at this point. Once my sunburn went away they bacne has returned although not as serious as before. I am going to give it to the end of this split pill, which will total 7 doses. I had about 3 days completely clear of new blemishes after the first .5 dose but like I said it was also at the time of my sunburn.

My gym funk continues as well sadly. Not sure what that is about.

**Vettester** · 08-24-2010, 07:20 PM

Bob, are you still going to do lab work around the first week of Sept.? Curious how it turns out. IMO, I think your "bacne" issues would diminish a bit if you get your "T" score down between 600-800 for a bit. Whatever the score is, I'm also curious what your "Free" testosterone score is and/or SHBG and albumin levels. How long has your gym "funk" been going on?

**highnmighty** · 08-24-2010, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by ds53

Test Cyp in me takes a nose dive after day 5. After discussion with dr he had no problem with me taking my dose on day 5 instead of 7. It made quite of bit of difference as my blood levels were more stable and didnt have the couple days of being so randy only to be down by day 7. No more mood swings and alway feeling strong. It makes your blood test more accurate and easier to find the right dosage. The half life of cyp is 6-7 days, with a active life of 15 days. Most charts I have looked at confirm that blood levels really start dropping on day 5 or 6. My testicles actually came back to normal size after a few months of keeping my test leveled out.

I just started Test Cyp and like you stated the 6th day was a big crash! I am thinking of dosing E5D like you. Have a couple of questions: How is your libido? Are you using an AI? Also are you running 100mg E5D? Personally if I do this protocol I will probably do 80 mgs I don't want to get bloated I want to stay lean.

**BOB89** · 08-25-2010, 04:59 AM

Vetteman,

It started just before I started with the adex, its not odd for me to have off days in the gym since I lift high % singles on alot of lifts, but for it to continue for several weeks isn't normal. I'm not really sure on the effect of adex on recovery or how long the adjustment may be for my body going from high E2 to a more normal number.

I don't have any lab work scheduled at this point. Like I've said my doc goes alot by how I feel and in the case of the adex it will be up to .5 eod or my til sides go away. Lab work will be ordered if I have any sides that might be from the adex as well.

I'm thinking about dropping my dose to 100/80mg every 6/7 with the addition of the Adex, as I might not feel the drop off like I did before at day 6.

Highnmighty,

My libido has been pretty consistent through out this process and even before I started on TRT. I guess i'm one of the lucky ones that didn't have sexual sides from low t. I do notice an increase in desire since I started the higher dosing of T. Currently I'm on 100mg every 5 days but I actually am dosing right at 80mg every 5 days. Adex at the current is.25 every 2.5 days. The day of my shot and then halfway between shots.

Like I said I am considering cutting back further on my T to maybe 80mg every 6 days and then move the adex to every 3 days.(day of shot and then half way between shots) May also consider .5 adex on that schedule as well depending. I can basically dose the adex up to .5 every other day if I want. My doc gives me alot of leeway in what I actaully dose.

My body fat hovers around 15% at 220lbs bodyweight. Which is just fine with me I know going a little lower won't hurt me but I'm comfortable with my apperance at this size and would consider dropping the BF% if need be.

**highnmighty** · 08-25-2010, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by BOB89

Vetteman,

It started just before I started with the adex, its not odd for me to have off days in the gym since I lift high % singles on alot of lifts, but for it to continue for several weeks isn't normal. I'm not really sure on the effect of adex on recovery or how long the adjustment may be for my body going from high E2 to a more normal number.

I don't have any lab work scheduled at this point. Like I've said my doc goes alot by how I feel and in the case of the adex it will be up to .5 eod or my til sides go away. Lab work will be ordered if I have any sides that might be from the adex as well.

I'm thinking about dropping my dose to 100/80mg every 6/7 with the addition of the Adex, as I might not feel the drop off like I did before at day 6.

Highnmighty,

My libido has been pretty consistent through out this process and even before I started on TRT. I guess i'm one of the lucky ones that didn't have sexual sides from low t. I do notice an increase in desire since I started the higher dosing of T. Currently I'm on 100mg every 5 days but I actually am dosing right at 80mg every 5 days. Adex at the current is.25 every 2.5 days. The day of my shot and then halfway between shots.

Like I said I am considering cutting back further on my T to maybe 80mg every 6 days and then move the adex to every 3 days.(day of shot and then half way between shots) May also consider .5 adex on that schedule as well depending. I can basically dose the adex up to .5 every other day if I want. My doc gives me alot of leeway in what I actaully dose.

My body fat hovers around 15% at 220lbs bodyweight. Which is just fine with me I know going a little lower won't hurt me but I'm comfortable with my apperance at this size and would consider dropping the BF% if need be.

That's great, your doc is smart to realize that one size doesn't fit all in TRT! Like you I am trying to use common sense in this process. I just started TRT last week and today was my second shot of 100mg. Now, yesterday the 6th day I felt like I crashed so I am going to repeat this week same thing and see if on Tuesday I feel like crap again. If I do then I know where the half life is w/ my body. Then I will probably switch it up to dosing E5D. Also I am going to do 200 iu HCG this Sunday to see if it will help buffering the drop on Tuesday & Wednesday.

By the way... Are you doing any HCG?

**BOB89** · 08-28-2010, 12:43 AM

No HCG for me. I could probably get some but just don't see the need for me at this point in my life. I've had little to no shrinkage and fertility is a non-issue.

As for the bacne, its no longer the deep cyst type that I did have but now consists of small white head almost pimple sized spots. Which is good cause the cystic stuff hurt but is bad cause its still there. Because I am sticking with every 5 day injection schedule I'm going to go to .25 every injection day and the mid-point day. We'll see what I end up with in a month or so. After that its up to .5 every 3 days then on to .5 eod, beyond that its a trip to the dermotologist.

**BOB89** · 09-11-2010, 01:00 AM

Well it seems I may have hit my sweet spot finally. THe bacne is almost a memory with just a sore or two left on my back which is pretty much what I had before TRT anyway. I feel pretty decent and my energy level feels good.

I'm still dragging in the gym but today was my first day back in almost 2 weeks so I expected to be a hair off. I'll find out how the rest worked out for me in the coming weeks as I get back to it completely.

As of right now I am taking .4cc of Test C every 5 days with .25 of adex the day of the shot and the middle day(or eodish)

**leenco12** · 09-11-2010, 04:49 AM

Originally Posted by dino1013

i can say i know how you feel...i went through kind of the same thing make a long story short.150 mg week fits me great,feel great etc etc etc.you will get it right,but as the others have said most people feel better and are more stable just taking weekly injections..good luck

I'm going to settle into 150 every 10-12 days for a month or two and see how it feels. THen based on that I'll make my judgement call then of whether to go up with dosage or frequency. I'll try to keep this updated as I go.

__________________
watch movies online

**BOB89** · 10-05-2010, 11:14 PM

Its been a month or so since I've updated this,

I've had to adjust my adex dose slightly, I started getting some discomfort in my knees and sholders at .25 EOD so I dropped it to E3D once the acne had cleared. Right now I only have one active spot on my sholder and hope that continues with a E3D dose.

Next bloodwork will be at the end of Decemeber so that I can get it in on this years deducatable.

**zaggahamma** · 10-06-2010, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by BOB89

Its been a month or so since I've updated this,

I've had to adjust my adex dose slightly, I started getting some discomfort in my knees and sholders at .25 EOD so I dropped it to E3D once the acne had cleared. Right now I only have one active spot on my sholder and hope that continues with a E3D dose.

Next bloodwork will be at the end of Decemeber so that I can get it in on this years deducatable.

what other results are you seeing

**BOB89** · 10-09-2010, 01:04 AM

not sure what you mean by results.

If your talking about from the adex, then I guess the only noticable thing is the bacne issue. I've had a slight decrease in sex drive since starting to take it which I thought odd but doesn't worry me at this point.

As far as TRT goes,

I'm still in the gym and have seemed to get over the stall point I had a month or so ago. My bf remains around 15% and my weight has been fairly constant. Which is another weird thing since I thought I would see a drop in weight if my e2 dropped, even if it was just water.

As far as mood and mental wellbeing, I guess you could say I've been a hair more postive since I started the adex, although I have also noticed that I've fought some absent mindedness as well. Not sure if they are related to the adex or something else.

Does that answer your question, if not I can try again.

**zaggahamma** · 10-09-2010, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by BOB89

not sure what you mean by results.

If your talking about from the adex, then I guess the only noticable thing is the bacne issue. I've had a slight decrease in sex drive since starting to take it which I thought odd but doesn't worry me at this point.

As far as TRT goes,

I'm still in the gym and have seemed to get over the stall point I had a month or so ago. My bf remains around 15% and my weight has been fairly constant. Which is another weird thing since I thought I would see a drop in weight if my e2 dropped, even if it was just water.

As far as mood and mental wellbeing, I guess you could say I've been a hair more postive since I started the adex, although I have also noticed that I've fought some absent mindedness as well. Not sure if they are related to the adex or something else.

Does that answer your question, if not I can try again.

yes..(maybe a lil more detail on "getting over a stall point"...have you added significant weight to your lifts?).....
......sounds like your slowly progressing...

we'll be looking for your next update and that bloodwork result from december

**BOB89** · 10-09-2010, 07:58 PM

as far as lifting goes, I was working a pretty aggressive Singles progression on Deadlift(HEPBURN)although I worked up to singles at 100% of my 1 rep I just wasn't making any progress on moving my single rep max up in fact missing some lifts at times. I've since reset to a less aggressive progression based on triples on deads. So far it seems to be moving along nicely.

my other lifts are moving although slowly which is fine for me. I'm going to miss my goals for the year but looking back I based them on last years progress which I should have realized couldn't continue.

As far as the E2 control I'm just not sure if the adex was the way to go. Has anyone heard of being overly sensitive to it where small doses cause much larger than intended effects.

**BOB89** · 11-11-2010, 12:06 AM

well the last month or so has been intresting to say the least. I'm not a huge fan of my adex at this point. I feel like I've been bouncing for the last month on it. I just can't seem to settle into a dosage that my body likes. The EOD was good at first but then the joint discomfort started. So I moved to .25 E3D and the acne stopped then after about 3 weeks started again.

I have 2 more months til blood work is scheduled. I need to stay on a dosage consistently until then but I'm not really sure what I should do. The .25 EOD seems like too much adex as the symtoms of low E2 popped up fairly quickly but E3D seems like too little as the acne showed back up. I thought about staying on the E3D schedule and just dealing with the acne til I get a blood work results. Also at E3Ds I had a noticable drop in libido after the 3 weeks. Which is consistent with low e2 but could also be high e2(the acne being the indicator)

Right now however I've returned to EOD until I can get the acne gone again. Then I'll go to E3D through my blood work.

I need to ask again has anyone heard of people having an drastic out of proportion reaction to Adex. where a normal dosage casues drastic shifts in E2 levels.