Smallest effective dosage

**zaggahamma** · 08-13-2011, 06:14 AM

tbh,

i go less to none by numbers than feeling/symptoms

and/but bob, ratio is something to look at of course but symptoms to me are most important

i know you have been on and have been very maticulous and you know better than anyone

still subscribed

**BOB89** · 08-13-2011, 09:23 PM

I know that I function well at the upper range of E2. So I'm not going to change much if anything, I was honestly surprised that it was only 49 to be honest. I think at one point I was over 100 and functioning fine. I think I had one test Pre-TRT and it was in the mid 50s.

The ratio thing intrests me but I've come to realize there are no hard fast rules in this game. Someone may take 1mg a week of Adex and basically see little change and I may take .25 and plummet below what I'm comfortable with. Plus if you look at the ratio range 20:1 to 30:1 and my numbers I'm just 10 E2 points from being at 20:1 almost on the nose.

I've come to the point where my test dose is set, 100 mg e4-5d works for me and puts me at a level me and my Dr are comfortable with. A small tweak to the E2 I can't see as a bad thing and its not like its forever. I can drop the dose and be back at baseline in a matter of a week or so. I think its worth the tiny risk and I think I'm going to go .25 on shot day and thats it. I've considered I may be on the borderline between a E2 level I can live with and one that causes issues, this would explain the issues that seem to ebb and flow as they aren't constant. So by pushing my E2 down as slightly as I can I may be able to take myself out of the borderline area. IF not I'm not really risking anything.

Yes I realize that e4d exceeded Adex's half life and may result in a slight rollercoaster but may also just shave enough while it is active in my system to drop my E2 levels to an even better one for me.

**BOB89** · 08-18-2011, 06:47 PM

This week my script was due. Ran into a few problems all at once. When I phone ordered it said to hold for pharmist. I waited and they told me it would be held up for a dr re-authorization. I didn't think much of this since I only have one refill on this script anyway. Had to go there the next day for my BP meds anyway. Well I got there and they said they were waiting on a fax back from the Dr but they were out of stock anyway. This happened last year in July as well, there was a nationwide shortage for about 3 months were I had to pre-order and wait a few days to get my script filled. Well I called today and they were still out of stock but the hold up ended up being with my insurance. I needed to re-up my exemption that my work gives me as Test isn't typically covered. So I had to do that. That got straight about noon. I'll call tomorrow to see if they have any Test in stock or this is going to be an ongoing thing for awhile. I'm stockpiled and can wait but its pretty annoying.

**BOB89** · 08-23-2011, 02:00 AM

Finally got around to a BF% check today, its 14%ish at 220 BW. Which is just a hair off of my lowest BF% since I started HRT only 20+ heavier.

**zaggahamma** · 08-23-2011, 08:31 AM

impressive bro...solid work

**BOB89** · 08-23-2011, 08:55 PM

I forgot to mention that my test was there the next day.

I on my third dose of .25 adex w my injection, this schedule is convenient if nothing else. I'm experiencing increased sexual intrest around day 2-3 after injection and then a slight drop. I'll continue to track it. Does anyone know when during a injection sequence that E2 is typically highest. I know that test peaks around day 2-3 for most. Does E2 peak after or roughly the same time?

**GotNoBlueMilk** · 08-24-2011, 05:32 AM

E2, barring any AI, is going to peak about 12 hours after T peaks. Adex has a 2-3 day half life.

I don' think T peaks at 2-3 days after injection, but I could be wrong about that. I always thought it was 24 hours.

**zaggahamma** · 08-24-2011, 09:50 AM

I was alwasys under the assumption T peaked around day 4/5 after injcection

**GotNoBlueMilk** · 08-24-2011, 09:57 AM

So take my assumption, JP's assumption, average them together, and you day 2-3. Which is Bob's timeframe.

**zaggahamma** · 08-24-2011, 09:59 AM

guess i should have worded better...i read directly of the test cyp chart(dont believe enanthate is much different) about the day 4/5 peak....but i feel itchy nips same day or next after a 125mg or higher shot of test....

**BOB89** · 08-27-2011, 01:06 AM

I know the peak varies but was looking for a general rule. I tend to believe I am one of those people with a much shorter halflife than some since I feel a noticable drop by day 6 through 8 when I was on a longer schedule.

The day before my last shot I was an ass this week. Unsure of whether it has anything to due with my medication but its something else I'm going to track. If I notice a trend towards day 4-5 I will probably either drop the AI completely(as I didn't have this on this exact dosage while I was off AI) or take a second dose on day 3. It will probalby be another month or two before I have a good enough sample of day 4s to judge.

I'm also looking at another blast after I get a handle on things. Probably just up to my max scripted dose as it pushes me well into the supraphysical level.

**zaggahamma** · 08-27-2011, 05:04 AM

i'm an ass on days 1-7

**JD250** · 08-30-2011, 04:19 PM

Test does peak around day 2ish to day 4ish but starts the drop on day 5ish.......I always felt a little (kinda) shitty after day 5 so I started injecting every 5th day and that solved the problem.......feeling shitty after the middle of the week could also be caused by the need for an AI later in the week, high e2 will leave you with less than normal free test and feeling shitty just as if the test levels were falling from half life. I dose ADEX eod so I assumed I was experiencing a drop in test levels from half life and not high e2 and apparently I was correct.

^^ Hoisse.....well said!!

**BOB89** · 08-31-2011, 07:51 PM

JD,

thats pretty much my thoughts as well, a rise in E2 later in the week causing the irratiablilty. This last week I didn't have the ass issue but I was also out of the gym so my body was less stressed. I'm going to track it a few more weeks and see what I come up with and if it continues I'll add .25 adex on day 3. Last time I went EOD even at .25 I had some low E2 symptoms so I'm not going to drop that low or if I do I'll probably up my test dose some. But for now I'm just going to get a good read over a few more weeks and see where I am then. Thanks for the input.

**BOB89** · 01-05-2012, 05:11 AM

I haven't updated this in awhile since there hasn't been much to say. I've settles in at 100 e5d with adex at. 5 mg on the day of the shot and. 5 2 days later. Seems to be working out pretty well. I have blood work in about a month w my appointment shortly after.

**Charly Rivers** · 01-05-2012, 11:33 AM

great info thanks guys

**BOB89** · 02-17-2012, 05:05 AM

I got.my blood work done last week and about 10 hours out from my doc visit. The blood work will reflect a dosage of 100mg of test every 5 days w .5mg of adex eod. On that dosage I seem to basically side effect.free.

**bass** · 02-17-2012, 01:03 PM

excellent! please post your blood work when you get it, curious to see how its working for you. thanks for the update!

**Hackamaniac** · 02-17-2012, 03:10 PM

Being new to trt this is a great thread....Everything is very well documented, thanks for the time and effort!!!

**BOB89** · 02-17-2012, 04:29 PM

Got a call mid day from my Dr. He had a rash of flu cases and wanted to let me know he was backed up. We agreed to reschedule. I did drop by and pick up my blood work. I'll hit the high lights. Dosing was 100 mg of test every 5/6 days. Adex was .5 eod.

Cholesterol was all in range.
All blood related numbers were in range, with red blood cell count pretty.much maxed out.
Vitamin D was 44(30-80)

Now here is where things.get weird.
estradiol was <7(10-52)
This is explains a lot of the.little.aches and pains I've been having. Oddly I didn't experience rubber dick even at these basement levels. With an adex to test ratio of 1.6 mg per 140 mg of test I should be almost ideal dosing specs. But my e2 is a third of where it should be and 1/5 of where it was without.(51 previously).

Test was down to 388 with the same basic dosing from 750~. Have no ideal for a cause of this drop in test.

LH and fsh were basically non existent as would be expected.

Prolactin was 6.8(2.1-17.7)

Thyroid tested normal

Weight was about 215 w a bf% of 15%~

All the health stuff checked out solid which is good. The hormone stuff was a hair off but I left myself some adjustment between this test and the last one. Looks like a run at. 25 adex every 2/3 day is in order or just .5 at the time of my shot should put me right in range. Will adjust test up to 4/5 days between shots. I was consistent w dosing going into testing so I don't have an explanation for the 300 point drop in test. Although I wasn't drinking at all going into last test but had a small bender the weekend before this one. I know that alcohol effects test production in the body but not sure how it effects exogenous test. Will need to research that.

**bass** · 02-17-2012, 06:29 PM

cutting down on AI will fix your e2 of course. did you check for SHBG and free T?

**BOB89** · 02-17-2012, 07:42 PM

I've got numbers for t4 and free t4(both middle of range)but no shbg or free test. Although I know I've had.both before. Odd.

**BOB89** · 02-20-2013, 03:43 AM

Its been a year since I've updated this thread. Although I've played with dosage a hair here and there I've settled into a dose of .75 ml every 8 days going into my bloodwork in about a month. I'm off the ai and have no bacne. Last summer I got as low as 195lbs but was having some blood pressure related issues that required the change of meds to a beta blocker. Since then my weight has gone back up to over 100kg as my metabolism slowed with max doses of the beta blocker. I noted a 15 point reduction in heart rate on the beta blocker.

I've fought some injuries that have limited my lifting but think I'm through the worst of them now and none required treatment beyond cutting back a little and some periods of complete rest.

**BOB89** · 09-16-2013, 11:16 PM

Survived a summer highlighted by a almost heart attack caused by the beta blockers. They were limiting my heart rate to about 130 regardless of what I was doing. I exceeded that and my body decided to shoot my bp through the roof via vascular restriction. The end result was a very very irregular heartbeat that should of or at least could of killed me.

We switched to a different beta blocker but it was still too much. So am now on a calcium channel blocker. Have had one small issue since that change.

Did manage to get off the cholesterol meds and still be within range. Got a diagnosis of sleep apnea that we're dealing with. It may be correctable through surgery.

None of these issues appear to be trt related. Last blood work was for free test only and I was slightly higher than mid-range at 125~ every 7 days or so.