Smallest effective dosage

**pyramid** · 11-11-2010, 10:16 AM

I am very new to this to, but what I have learned is that the guys on this site are more knowledgable and helpful than either my family doctor or the endo he refered me to. My endo prescribed me HCG to run with my 100mg a week of test cyp, he told me to use 2500iu 3x aweek, after talking with the guys on this site found out the correct dose for me was closer to 250-300iu 3x a week and a dose as high as the doc prescribed would likely do more harm than good. So for me I trust this site for dosing info and I use my doc to write scripts, assuming your blood work is ok.

**zaggahamma** · 11-11-2010, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by pyramid

I am very new to this to, but what I have learned is that the guys on this site are more knowledgable and helpful than either my family doctor or the endo he refered me to. My endo prescribed me HCG to run with my 100mg a week of test cyp, he told me to use 2500iu 3x aweek, after talking with the guys on this site found out the correct dose for me was closer to 250-300iu 3x a week and a dose as high as the doc prescribed would likely do more harm than good. So for me I trust this site for dosing info and I use my doc to write scripts, assuming your blood work is ok.

that is what most do....not only this site but research will tell u more than MOST doctors....SOME doctors know/care/study

**BOB89** · 11-11-2010, 08:13 PM

I figure the best thing to do is what I'm doing right now, get back to a base level where I know I'm not high and try to work from there. I'm considering working at .25 e3d but cutting my test dose back a hair. With adex's halflife being roughly 3 days I have concerns about going over that as far as dosing. Like I've said I'm starting to believe that I'm just really sensitive to adex and may consider another option for E2 control. My bodyfat still is in the 15% range on a pinch test but bodyweight has increased to roughly 225. I'm also not sure how much the extra size is effecting dosage although BF% is roughly the same the total amount of fat has increase with the weight increase.

My dr lets me work within his boundaries so I'm very lucky there. A little more a little less doesn't matter to him as long as I'm getting the results. My bloodwork is just to make sure that we are on track over all.

For the next several weeks I'm going to do my best to control any other factors that may be leading to the acne and other sides.

In a possibly unrelated note, I'm feeling pretty scatter brained recently.

**zaggahamma** · 11-11-2010, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by BOB89

I figure the best thing to do is what I'm doing right now, get back to a base level where I know I'm not high and try to work from there. I'm considering working at .25 e3d but cutting my test dose back a hair. With adex's halflife being roughly 3 days I have concerns about going over that as far as dosing. Like I've said I'm starting to believe that I'm just really sensitive to adex and may consider another option for E2 control. My bodyfat still is in the 15% range on a pinch test but bodyweight has increased to roughly 225. I'm also not sure how much the extra size is effecting dosage although BF% is roughly the same the total amount of fat has increase with the weight increase.

My dr lets me work within his boundaries so I'm very lucky there. A little more a little less doesn't matter to him as long as I'm getting the results. My bloodwork is just to make sure that we are on track over all.

For the next several weeks I'm going to do my best to control any other factors that may be leading to the acne and other sides.

In a possibly unrelated note, I'm feeling pretty scatter brained recently.

has that been proven to matter?

**BOB89** · 11-11-2010, 08:55 PM

it was just a thought. My thinking is that a larger person might require a dif dosage than a smaller one, more based on me having more total bodyfat although the same %. I think I've gained 20lbs since starting TRT.

I haven't been able to find any studies about physical size effecting dosage for TRT but I honestly haven't looked very hard.

I may not have looked in the right places but there doesn't seem to be alot of info out there on dosing TRT since it appears that each person's body is effected so differntly. I know there are general guidlines to start with.

Am I making any sense here or have I lost it?

**zaggahamma** · 11-11-2010, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by BOB89

it was just a thought. My thinking is that a larger person might require a dif dosage than a smaller one, more based on me having more total bodyfat although the same %. I think I've gained 20lbs since starting TRT.

I haven't been able to find any studies about physical size effecting dosage for TRT but I honestly haven't looked very hard.

I may not have looked in the right places but there doesn't seem to be alot of info out there on dosing TRT since it appears that each person's body is effected so differntly. I know there are general guidlines to start with.

Am I making any sense here or have I lost it?

ur making sense (at making your point)...and i've heard that posed as a possibility but i've never heard it proved or disproved and also havent felt the need to look for the answer...but my gut says no....weight/mass/lbm shouldnt make a diff on hormones...especially not fat...fat seems to be a precursor to elevating estro

**BOB89** · 11-11-2010, 11:38 PM

well I was speaking of both my adex and test dosage as far as being bodyweight/fat dependant. Reading it I didn't do a good job of making it clear. I'm really just not happy with whats been going on since I started the adex. I despise the idea of going on acutane though(which is my other viable option).

**zaggahamma** · 11-12-2010, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by BOB89

well I was speaking of both my adex and test dosage as far as being bodyweight/fat dependant. Reading it I didn't do a good job of making it clear. I'm really just not happy with whats been going on since I started the adex. I despise the idea of going on acutane though(which is my other viable option).

well i hope u get it dialed in where you can be comfortable....at 15% how close to your goal are you?

**BOB89** · 11-15-2010, 09:57 PM

well after almost 2 weeks of every other day .25 I seem to be back to where i would like to be. I'm dosing at 100mg every 5 days at the present. The acne is back to a spot or two here or there which is just a hair more than I had before I ever started this. I'm going to shift to e3d in another week or so and ride that til blood work. The test will remain at 100 e5ds.

The 15% is just about 3% short of where I would like to end up as far as body fat would go. My goal weight is 230-235 at 12% which is another 10lbs to put on. I figure I should hit it sometime in early summer/late spring of next year pretty easy as far as the weight goes with a cut to follow to 12%.

**zaggahamma** · 11-16-2010, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by BOB89

well after almost 2 weeks of every other day .25 I seem to be back to where i would like to be. I'm dosing at 100mg every 5 days at the present. The acne is back to a spot or two here or there which is just a hair more than I had before I ever started this. I'm going to shift to e3d in another week or so and ride that til blood work. The test will remain at 100 e5ds.
The 15% is just about 3% short of where I would like to end up as far as body fat would go. My goal weight is 230-235 at 12% which is another 10lbs to put on. I figure I should hit it sometime in early summer/late spring of next year pretty easy as far as the weight goes with a cut to follow to 12%.

i also like that weight and body fat although for me usually 12% is around 220-225

**BOB89** · 11-19-2010, 08:27 PM

I think I can carry 240ish pretty easy. I'm hoping it levels out around there. Time will tell. Worst case is still better than where I was 3 years ago.

**go2failure** · 11-21-2010, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by BOB89

Another weird thing I've noticed is that I'm having more real/lucid dreams since I started TRT. Not sure if this is because I'm sleeping better or what, anyone else notice this.

The first week after my first injection I felt like a 12 year old girl as I was almost giddy and giggley, I haven't gotten that kind of lift since.

Yes I did notice that! I found myself having 2 or 3 dreams a nights, remembering each one. Considering I haven't remembered dreaming in years, that's definitely a plus!

**go2failure** · 11-21-2010, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by FallenWyvern

I have pictures of what TRT did for me in 4 months.

Post these, I'm interested to see the difference. Thanks!

**go2failure** · 11-21-2010, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by BOB89

I figure the best thing to do is what I'm doing right now, get back to a base level where I know I'm not high and try to work from there. I'm considering working at .25 e3d but cutting my test dose back a hair. With adex's halflife being roughly 3 days I have concerns about going over that as far as dosing. Like I've said I'm starting to believe that I'm just really sensitive to adex and may consider another option for E2 control. My bodyfat still is in the 15% range on a pinch test but bodyweight has increased to roughly 225. I'm also not sure how much the extra size is effecting dosage although BF% is roughly the same the total amount of fat has increase with the weight increase.

My dr lets me work within his boundaries so I'm very lucky there. A little more a little less doesn't matter to him as long as I'm getting the results. My bloodwork is just to make sure that we are on track over all.

For the next several weeks I'm going to do my best to control any other factors that may be leading to the acne and other sides.

In a possibly unrelated note, I'm feeling pretty scatter brained recently.

On ******** board, a specialist posts there with the forum name KSMAN. He suggests 1 mg total arimidex per week split into 2 or 3 does per 100mg of test used per week for normal arimidex responders. For example, if you are on 100mgs of test per week you would split your does into .50mg mon/thurs . However, he does believe there are some overresponders to arimidex and because of that he recommends a blood test every other week to find the sweet spot for those people.

Some key points he highlights in one of the stickies there is that too low of e2 levels causes libido problems and so does too high of e2. He also points out that too low e2 also causes brain fog just like too little testosterone . So finding the sweet spot for arimidex may be the key for you if your TT is in the 800-900 range. Does anyone know if arimidex comes in .5mg pills?

**zaggahamma** · 11-21-2010, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by go2failure

On ******** board, a specialist posts there with the forum name KSMAN. He suggests 1 mg total arimidex per week split into 2 or 3 does per 100mg of test used per week for normal arimidex responders. For example, if you are on 100mgs of test per week you would split your does into .50mg mon/thurs . However, he does believe there are some overresponders to arimidex and because of that he recommends a blood test every other week to find the sweet spot for those people.

Some key points he highlights in one of the stickies there is that too low of e2 levels causes libido problems and so does too high of e2. He also points out that too low e2 also causes brain fog just like too little testosterone. So finding the sweet spot for arimidex may be the key for you if your TT is in the 800-900 range. Does anyone know if arimidex comes in .5mg pills?

this is old news to this board....

and how long does mr. ksman want to continue to test blood every other week for....eternity? u dont mention

btw,

welcome to ar

**Vettester** · 11-21-2010, 08:46 PM

Yes, I've had Anastrozole compounded at 0.5mg capsules.

**go2failure** · 11-22-2010, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

this is old news to this board....

and how long does mr. ksman want to continue to test blood every other week for....eternity? u dont mention

btw,

welcome to ar

I'd ask him if you're curious, he posts on t.-.n.a.t.i.o.n. Is there a thread you saved somewhere with that information? I haven't seen any of that old news you're referring to in my search queries. thanks!

**go2failure** · 11-22-2010, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by vetteman08

Yes, I've had Anastrozole compounded at 0.5mg capsules.

Was going to suggest splitting a pill if it was made at that strength.

**zaggahamma** · 11-22-2010, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by go2failure

I'd ask him if you're curious, he posts on t.-.n.a.t.i.o.n. Is there a thread you saved somewhere with that information? I haven't seen any of that old news you're referring to in my search queries. thanks!

i only concurred mr. ksman and about your arimidex question i've only heard name brand arimidex coming in 1mg tablets and like u said ppl use pill cutters for .5 and .25 doses

**zaggahamma** · 11-22-2010, 09:40 PM

also if u think about what i posted you will agree with my question and should question that yourself....could u imagine doing bloodwork every other week....i know i've never heard of this

**go2failure** · 11-23-2010, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

also if u think about what i posted you will agree with my question and should question that yourself....could u imagine doing bloodwork every other week....i know i've never heard of this

Bob89, what KSMAN has his patients do who appear to be overresponsers to arimidex is take a blood test every other week until they nail down the ratio for test and arimidex. In your case, it may be worth looking into as far as making sure your levels are correct. Afterwards, you should be on a normal blood test frequency. In my case, normal means every 3-6 months. I prefer 3 right now though because of the travel required with my work.

**zaggahamma** · 11-23-2010, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by go2failure

Bob89, what KSMAN has his patients do who appear to be overresponsers to arimidex is take a blood test every other week until they nail down the ratio for test and arimidex. In your case, it may be worth looking into as far as making sure your levels are correct. Afterwards, you should be on a normal blood test frequency. In my case, normal means every 3-6 months. I prefer 3 right now though because of the travel required with my work.

you corrected it ....there u go...but u quoted me and directed your post to the op

**BOB89** · 11-24-2010, 10:25 PM

As much fun blood work every 2 weeks sounds, I'll pass. Not only would my insurance cough up a lung but so would my pocketbook even once I covered the decutable. The idea that someone addressed people who have a profound reaction to adex is intresting to me though.

I could honestly care less what my actual number is as long as I feel OK. The every 6 month bloodwork I do is just ot make sure I'm not too far out of spec.

Right now I'm feeling really good, The adex dosage is settled at E2.5Ds until bloodwork and test will remain at 100mg every 5. My acne is at the moment down to 1 new spot in the last 2 days.

**BOB89** · 12-29-2010, 02:34 AM

Well its 2 days til my next blood draw. I'm curious as to what it ends up saying. The acne has bounced back and then gone again and seems to cycle back and forth. Although I still suspect e2 issues as the cause, I've been trying to eliminate other possible causes. Oddly enough I'm expereincing some sexual sides over the last month. Again they seem to ebb and flow. My mental outlook on life has remained pretty postive despite all this although bouts of foggy headness continue here and there.

Dosage has been consisent though with test being 100mg e5d and adex at .25 e2d. My actaul appointment isn't til early feb so I'm going to ask the lab to phone me with the test and e2 numbers and if e2 looks high I will probably increase my adex dosage til my dr appointment and take my chances as to what that ends up doing. I have a hard time believing that I'm way high or too low as far as E2 goes seeing as the dosage of test I'm using isn't a crazy amount and the adex is right around what is normally reccomended.

I've had seroius thoughts about trying to stop TRT completely over the last month. The back and forth that I'm experiencing even with consitent dosing is demoralizing to say the least. I realize that isn't really an option for me at this point but it seems that since i added the adex I've been in flux.

I honestly thought that 2 years in I would be dialed in. I've made some small adjustments which normally had a postive change but that change only lasted a short time before the sides returned. I'm not sure of the science behind this or if there is something else i should be looking at.

**coonhunter** · 12-29-2010, 02:48 AM

The whole point of trt is to maintain healthy levels. You have to inject every week. Your Dr should know that. You might want to see someone specializing in HRT . When I got started it took me a while to get it dialed in. I went off what was ordered but I started at 100mg every week and ended up at 200mg.And feel great. I went on TRT for the same reasons. I just needed the edge back from my youth.

**BOB89** · 12-29-2010, 05:40 AM

My issue isn't the frequency of injection or my Drs methods so I'm not sure what your addressing with your response. I inject 100mg every 5 days, but even with consistent and steady dosages I seem to not have a consisitent response. My meds are all US pharmacy and prescribed by my dr.

I have made small adjustments during the last year which my dr is aware of. Most adjustments resulted in postive change but then after a period of time the side effects returned. I ran all adjustments long enough to provide a stable blood level at that dosage.

**BOB89** · 12-31-2010, 08:26 PM

Well I got my blood work done and went to call my dr's office and he was closed last week so I can't talk to him til monday. SO I get to go this weekend. I am allowed up to .25 of adex per day on my script and will probably jump to that over the weekend even without my blood results. Since the acne is back again I have to place my bets on high e2 rather than low caused by the adex. By Tuesday I should have my bloodwork results and can readjust then. I'm due for a call in to renew my adex script anyway so the timing is just about right for an increased dosage. I realize that .25 a day ends up being 1.75 a week which sounds high. My other option is to go to .5 every 3 days which results in an average dosage of 1.25 per week.

T dosage is 1cc every 10 days but since I use a 1 cc vial I'm injecting more like 160mg or .4cc per injection.

I need to do some more research on any outside causes of increased E2 conversion. My bodywieght is still around 225 with a bf% of a slightly increased 17% as of about a week ago. If my e2 is in range and my test is not way high(I dont' expect this) then I may have to go head and head to the endo if the Dr doesn't have a reasonable plan when I talk to him next week.

I guess I could take this new year's eve and review what this year has been like on TRT and what I've done as far as dosage and such. I may just do that later tonight if I get a chance.

Edit:

Overnight I didn't have my logs handy but I did manage to do a little book work as well as figure my usage per week instead of E5D and E2D dosages.

I am currently taking between 112-140 mg of Test C per week depending on the waste left in the needle(I have been told to figure a .10 for waste so the number is between .4 cc and .5 cc per injection)

I am using .875mg of Adex per week when dosed at .25 eod.

The only guidline or suggestion I could find for adex use in comparison to Test use while on HRT says that it should be somewhere near 1mg per 100mg of test per week. Meaning I'm about 30% underdosed. I'll be intrested to see if the blood work reflects this or not. My max dose of adex(.25eod) would be closer to 1.75mg per week in relation to 140 mgs of test.

**zaggahamma** · 01-01-2011, 11:07 AM

once again bob...great post...always detailed and thorough..

from the looks of it, you may just have to deal with acne off and on...if youre other symptoms and gains are good it would sure be worth it to me...

as far as the waste in the pin or a lil in the vial...i never factor that and if i pull 1cc and the vial is 200mg per cc then i say i am taking 200mg and so on...just my .02 on that issue...

but real curious of the bloodwork and wish u the best.....anything else u care to mention (gains, etc.? is that 17% bf down or up from a month or so?)

**BOB89** · 01-01-2011, 07:51 PM

Well performance in the gym is like always for me, good days and bad days. I'm going to take the wise route at the begining of this year and reset everything to 80% and work a linear progression from there. It may cost me a month or two of progress but I don't need to be superman tommorrow.

I think that trying to pull high percentage singles as often as I was without solid sleep on a regular basis just fried my CNS. I would gain then fall back through out last year. So i would make progress and hit my lifts then a few weeks later not be able to repeat that performance.

I put 100lbs on my 3 lift total but I should have had more in me.

I normally won't care how much is left in the pin after I inject but I thought it was important to mention as I was using 10ml vials and accounted for that during the draw. And some of the ebb and flow became more noticable, about the time I went to the 1ml vials. So I've actually cut back through this year a considerable amount as well in frequency of injections. I think the more frequent injections(3-4days at one point) were off setting the high E2 where this lower dosage at E5D isn't enough to compensate.

Last night I read that the ideal Test/E2 ratio is between 20:1 and 30:1 regardless of the amount of either. Not sure of the science on this but it seemed to make some sense. If I remeber I'll ask my dr freinds about it.

The 17% is up from 15% a month or two ago. Of course the increase in bodyfat has been step in step with my side effects. I was as low as 13% at one point last year. Since we know that bodyfat plays a part in conversion of Test to E2 I'm going to try to lower it back to <15% over the next month or so. I am curious and of course will never know if the increased E2 is responsible for the increased BF% as little else has changed in the past 2 months or so.

**zaggahamma** · 01-01-2011, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by BOB89

Well performance in the gym is like always for me, good days and bad days. I'm going to take the wise route at the begining of this year and reset everything to 80% and work a linear progression from there. It may cost me a month or two of progress but I don't need to be superman tommorrow.

I think that trying to pull high percentage singles as often as I was without solid sleep on a regular basis just fried my CNS. I would gain then fall back through out last year. So i would make progress and hit my lifts then a few weeks later not be able to repeat that performance.

I put 100lbs on my 3 lift total but I should have had more in me.

I normally won't care how much is left in the pin after I inject but I thought it was important to mention as I was using 10ml vials and accounted for that during the draw. And some of the ebb and flow became more noticable, about the time I went to the 1ml vials. So I've actually cut back through this year a considerable amount as well in frequency of injections. I think the more frequent injections(3-4days at one point) were off setting the high E2 where this lower dosage at E5D isn't enough to compensate.

Last night I read that the ideal Test/E2 ratio is between 20:1 and 30:1 regardless of the amount of either. Not sure of the science on this but it seemed to make some sense. If I remeber I'll ask my dr freinds about it.

The 17% is up from 15% a month or two ago. Of course the increase in bodyfat has been step in step with my side effects. I was as low as 13% at one point last year. Since we know that bodyfat plays a part in conversion of Test to E2 I'm going to try to lower it back to <15% over the next month or so. I am curious and of course will never know if the increased E2 is responsible for the increased BF% as little else has changed in the past 2 months or so.

nice post as usual...what i bolded is interesting...not sure i've heard that theory..yes be nice to follow up on that

**BOB89** · 01-01-2011, 11:20 PM

It had to due mostly with the ratio in regards to libido and sexual function. But I'm not sure where I found it right now. Basic idea was the test/e2 ratio being more important than the total e2. If I find it again ill post it

**BOB89** · 01-03-2011, 12:06 AM

Well my blood work was thursday and I took my last .5cc shot on Friday. At the same time I front loaded some Adex taking .5mg on Friday and Saturday with .25 on Sunday. I may have hit the nail on the head. The 3/4 erections I was having seem to be gone already as well as some of the foggy headedness I had noted several times in the last several months. I wonder now if I'm my ratio/e2 total was on the boderline of what my body will function on and it has been jumping back and forth.

I should see my bw results mid-week and I'll post what I get over the phone. I expect to see a test number around 850 and a E2 of somewhere north of 50. (I'm totally guessing but I want to see how close I am)Which would show a 17:1 ratio or so.

Edit:

I'm back to the Dr office in early Feb so I have the chance to provide another stable blood level test at this increased Adex dosage at that time if need be. The dr did question why I wanted to take my BW early and was understanding when I told him what was going on and also that I wanted to beat my insurance deductable as well.

Also I must note that I had BW at one point in my first year prior to the onset of the acne which showed an elevated E2(>50)but with a fairly high Test value which resulted somewhere just north of 20:1. And at that time I had no side symptoms to speak of if I can remeber correctly. My last bloodwork in which my E2 was closing in on 100 I had a ratio of around well below 20:1.

**BOB89** · 01-05-2011, 09:53 PM

Well I called the Dr's office and got my adex script upped to 8 mg a month so I'll be on .25 a day until my appointment in about 5 weeks(if no problems come up). I asked for my bw results and total test was at only 689 and for some reason she couldn't find a E2 number. She had to look whether the number was just hiding or whether that test wasn't done. She said that she would call in a new order for E2 only but I figure its sort of pointless since I just changed dosages. I may call back just prior to my appointment and get it done so I have a number at appointement time to base any more changes on. Also had to order pins at walmart as they don't have any. I think its weird that with the increase of IM injection a pharmacy won't keep some IM length needles in stock.

Since the switch to .25 a day last weekend I have a marked reduction in acne and improved sexual function. But this is typical anytime I change dosages across the board so I will have to wait and see if I'm finally in the ball park with my T/e2 ratio.

**zaggahamma** · 01-06-2011, 11:50 AM

good stuff....sorry bout the e2 missing on the bloodwork..proves more of what a 'GREAT" health system we have

**BOB89** · 01-06-2011, 08:52 PM

I'm hoping it wasn't missed and she just didn't find it on the paperwork. My bloodwork shold be about 5 pages or so on this one. I had a full screen done with 5 full vials of drawn blood plus urine. She only had a minute to look as they were busy and I can't believe he dropped the E2 after running it for the last several times and being on meds to control it.

**zaggahamma** · 01-06-2011, 09:17 PM

lets hope

**BOB89** · 01-15-2011, 03:26 AM

Well I'm down to a month til my drs visit and have been at a steady .25mg of Adex since my blood work two weeks ago. Like I said before upon the change of dosage my side effect symptoms seemed to want to go away. A week later I won't say they are back but they aren't completely gone. I understand that my body may still be adjusting to the lower E2 that the increase in Adex dosage should be causing but its still being a little frustrating(anyone want to share adjustment time knowledge). The back and forth I seem to get when an adjustment is made seems to be out of the ordinary. Its almost like I when I hit a level that my body likes that it attempts to compensate and it throws it back out of whack. I'm leaning towards another set of bw prior to my Dr appointment to get a accurate E2 reading. I may just stop at his office this next week and look through my last set of BW to see about E2 myself.

The next step is another increase to my Adex dose after my Drs visit. I guess I could just take .5 on two days a week and .25 the other days, resulting in 2.25mg a week. That seems awful high to me though and I'm hesitant to go that route even with Drs supervision.

My acne seems to have changed though. This summer before the adex dosage I had acne that was best described as Typical cystic acne. Deep and painful. what I have now has white heads and although they itch and feel Pinchy(best word I could come up with) aren't painful or hard like what I did have. In some cases the head simply scrapes off while scrubbing. Not sure if this should tell me anything about the cause or not.

My mental function is still pretty postive, I still feel good about life and don't have the depression symptoms that are sometimes related to low/high E2.

Sexually I guess you could say there has been some change for the good. Although a week after changing adex dosage I was back to normal, since I have a lesser degree of fullness than I would like, but it is harder than the 3/4 erections I was having. My desire for sex is unchanged and remains good and fairly normal I think.

This makes me question the even higher dose of adex I am thinking about, as the week in which symptoms seemed to go away was a week when I pushed two days of .5 followed by .25 the rest of the week. Or the 2.25 total for the week. Curious to me.

I'm going to continue to stay on the dosage I have been though for the next month unless symptoms worsen or there is some other change that I can't forsee. Then one week from my appointment(3 weeks from now) I will either call for new bw or not. However I may have to move my Drs appointment as work has decided to schedule a meeting for me that day that I can't miss. Time will tell.

I am however down to 217 bodyweight but I do not have a BF% to go with that at the moment.(not sure what this is due to)

**zaggahamma** · 01-15-2011, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by BOB89

Well I'm down to a month til my drs visit and have been at a steady .25mg of Adex since my blood work two weeks ago. Like I said before upon the change of dosage my side effect symptoms seemed to want to go away. A week later I won't say they are back but they aren't completely gone. I understand that my body may still be adjusting to the lower E2 that the increase in Adex dosage should be causing but its still being a little frustrating(anyone want to share adjustment time knowledge). The back and forth I seem to get when an adjustment is made seems to be out of the ordinary. Its almost like I when I hit a level that my body likes that it attempts to compensate and it throws it back out of whack. I'm leaning towards another set of bw prior to my Dr appointment to get a accurate E2 reading. I may just stop at his office this next week and look through my last set of BW to see about E2 myself.

The next step is another increase to my Adex dose after my Drs visit. I guess I could just take .5 on two days a week and .25 the other days, resulting in 2.25mg a week. That seems awful high to me though and I'm hesitant to go that route even with Drs supervision.

My acne seems to have changed though. This summer before the adex dosage I had acne that was best described as Typical cystic acne. Deep and painful. what I have now has white heads and although they itch and feel Pinchy(best word I could come up with) aren't painful or hard like what I did have. In some cases the head simply scrapes off while scrubbing. Not sure if this should tell me anything about the cause or not.

My mental function is still pretty postive, I still feel good about life and don't have the depression symptoms that are sometimes related to low/high E2.

Sexually I guess you could say there has been some change for the good. Although a week after changing adex dosage I was back to normal, since I have a lesser degree of fullness than I would like, but it is harder than the 3/4 erections I was having. My desire for sex is unchanged and remains good and fairly normal I think.

This makes me question the even higher dose of adex I am thinking about, as the week in which symptoms seemed to go away was a week when I pushed two days of .5 followed by .25 the rest of the week. Or the 2.25 total for the week. Curious to me.

I'm going to continue to stay on the dosage I have been though for the next month unless symptoms worsen or there is some other change that I can't forsee. Then one week from my appointment(3 weeks from now) I will either call for new bw or not. However I may have to move my Drs appointment as work has decided to schedule a meeting for me that day that I can't miss. Time will tell.

I am however down to 217 bodyweight but I do not have a BF% to go with that at the moment.(not sure what this is due to)

the 217 is hard to judge seing how we only mentioned bf% before...

but youre going about this all the right way...you are being super patient with your doses and monitoring everything...it seems as if you have the one question in your mind about running the adex at .5 twice and then a few days at .25...i say do this after you get your bloodwork so you can try it one more time and then follow up with more labs and monitor your symptoms closely as you have been so you can finally dial this in

good work bro...hope it keeps getting better

**BOB89** · 01-16-2011, 12:06 AM

The weight change was from 225ish two weeks ago(at time of adex change). So it is a significant number although again there is no good way of knowing whether it is e2 related or from some minor tweaks I've made as I work back to <15%.

I want to get under 15% for the simple reason that it takes away one more X factor for E2 production. I've dropped booze for that reason as well. Even though I haven't been a heavy drinker in years I thought that it might be wise to go head dump it until I finally get a handle on this.

The Adex dosage is a mystery to me in all honesty. Although there are some rough numbers that fly around for this much Adex v this much test, I seem to be well outside of this. My Dr has discussed an endo and I am tentitive to go that route as my dr's methods to my problems are in line with my own beliefs and it seems my needs. I'm afraid that an endo may not be as willing to make adjustments or prescribe a treatment that just doesn't fit. I considered anti-aging clinics but cost pretty much rules that out until I exhaust my options with my insurance.

Like I was saying the Adex dosage is what confuses me. At this point I'm taking 1.75 mg a week and at max only 140mg of test and probably closer to 112mg. To move to a dose of 2.25 mg of adex(.25 5 days a week and .5 two days a week) seems excessive.

At this point I couldn't make an adjustment to a heavier adex dose as I'm inside of 3 weeks for my appointment and I would like the ability to provide a stable blood level should i need to at that time or before(if last symptoms don't resolve). At that point I think I would consider the higher adex dose prior to and in perfernce to an endo consult. If I reach that point I think I'll push towards looking for another cause for my high/low E2 related symptoms. Of course that would be if the BW was with in reason and not excessively high or low. I still hold a belief that the bw numbers are secondary to actual symptoms.

I really don't want to consider a drop in my test dose which would be my other option for lowering E2, as I think the almost 700 score I have is right near the bottom of where most would suggest I try to stay.

I guess I'm just thinking out loud about most of this at this point as much as asking questions or looking for feedback.

However I do have a question in regards to deca for anyone who reads this. Since deca converts to E2 at a much lower rate than Test in theroy is it possible to use a combo of Test and deca(or any other low converting substance) and achieve anything resambling the HRT type benifits of test by itself. I realize this is going way off label usage. Since I've only done some basic reading on Deca's benifits to joint health I do not understand how it react when used in the manner I'm speaking of. My gut tells me that it is probably not a viable option as a body needs test not deca.

**BOB89** · 01-16-2011, 01:28 AM

After doing some quick reading on Adex, it seems that a .5 mg dose resulted in a drop of roughly 50% in E2 levels in research. THere wasn't handy data on .25(I'll do more reading). However what I found intresting is that a 1mg a day dose resulted in basically the same drop.

So just playing devils advocate if my test level was 700 and my E2 in the 80s that would result in an almost 9 to 1 ratio. Which is double that of what I found as being reccomended at 20-1.(t/e2) So a .25 dosage per day may still be underdosed in theroy. This makes me worry less about my reaction to the adex and gives me some hope that a solution can be found in a couple weeks.

Why I convert at such a high rate is the next issue to take on should this on be resolved