Michael Vick plead guilty...

[scriptfactory]

First I'm not defending Mike Vicks actions. Check my previous posts. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of many on this board and elsewhere. I have a rescued American Bulldog that was used for fighting and he is completely docile around my kids, wife, and our female dogs. Your's and other's anger is misguided in my opinion. No where has it been proven that Mike Vick 'got off' on killing these animals. No where is it mentioned that he 'got off' on torturing this animals. He used similar methods used in slaughter houses (electrocution, shootings, etc.) To Vick and many in the south, Pitbulls and other dogs (particularly hunting dogs) are service animals, not pets. And not all racing horses and racing dogs are put down humanely. Check many websites of rescued sporting animals and you will see how 'ethically' some are treated. All I'm saying is this Mike Vick case has got so many people in such an uproar that its ridiculous. Again, Leonard Little killed a woman in a DUI accident, he got an 8 month suspension and 8 months in jail. There are many worse criminals in the country that get less sentences and create less uproar than Mike Vick. This whole thing is ridiculous. I once heard a saying, "America loves a hero, but Americans love to see heroes fall even more".

As far as his suspension is concerned, I think it well justified, but a lifetime ban is ridiculous as well. His suspension is based not on dog fighting but on gambling. That's just bullshit! I see professional football players every weekend here in Vegas (hell I hang out with many of them) gambling constantly. Anyway, how many actors, politicians, and athletes have gotten in trouble and gotten chances to redeem themselves. Look at Jason Giambi, Robert Downey, Ted Kennedy, George Bush, Bill Clinton, etc. If Mike Vick comes out of prison (which I think he deserves because he did break the law), vows to get involved against the cruelty of animals and gives as much money to this cause as he's done for his Mike Vick foundation (everybody seems to forget what Vick has done for HUMANS with his foundation, and yes he is personally involved), then he deserves the same chance at redemption as the rest of us.

For sure. I hope some of you read this post and actually think about what was written.

[RA]

Of course cows dont bite each other to death before you eat them

Vicks going to jail=a good thing

I think it's absolutely hilarious how everyone in this thread eats animals that are treated just as bad as these fighting dogs LEGALLY. If you hate cruel treatment of animals then become a vegetarian. If this story was about Michael Vick being cruel to a chicken or a cow no one would give a damn...

What Vick did was wrong, but why should he be punished to exorbitantly for something when worse things are done on ranches around the US on a daily basis? An animal is an animal. A pitbull is not worth more than a cow or a pig just because it's a pet. Give him the normal punishment for these actions, nothing more, nothing less.

[scriptfactory]

Of course cows dont bite each other to death before you eat them

True... but I don't eat dogs so I don't get the analogy.

[ftony]

I think it's absolutely hilarious how everyone in this thread eats animals that are treated just as bad as these fighting dogs LEGALLY. If you hate cruel treatment of animals then become a vegetarian. If this story was about Michael Vick being cruel to a chicken or a cow no one would give a damn...

What Vick did was wrong, but why should he be punished to exorbitantly for something when worse things are done on ranches around the US on a daily basis? An animal is an animal. A pitbull is not worth more than a cow or a pig just because it's a pet. Give him the normal punishment for these actions, nothing more, nothing less.

This post may have relevance in germany.But here in the U.S we keep our canine companions close to our family's,not cows or pigs (Livestock)Germany has concentration like camps for confiscated pitbulls ..Dont they???I would think you may be hardend to this type of treatment,Some people here in the US don't know this,I do. Your post would be coming from left field in an informed Americans eyes..I don't think it would be appropriate to drown or electrocute to death Livestock either...Anyway you flip this mike vick coin,you can't escape the intentional brutality and torture for his own amusment.They didn't fry up the dogs and eat them,because that's barbecuing American culture,they discarded them and drank some more 40s.heres a sample of the german position on almost any dog larger than 20kg"You cannot import into Germany, American Pitbull Terriers, the Staffordshire bull terrier or the Am Staff . This is a Federal law. In addition there is likely to be introduced a law restricting all dogs over 40cm or 20kg in weight to being on a lead. Any signs of aggression and they wil be further restricted to being muzzled.

The atmoshphere in Germany for many dog owners is abusive and threatening. Dogs have been attacked and owners are being verbaly abused. The German national tourist office advise you to visit with dogs only if you are prepared to put up with some difficulties. In addition some areas in Germany list up to 42 breeds with restrictions"

Perhaps this little bit of info will enlighten some on where your opinion is manifested..

[scriptfactory]

This post may have relevance in germany.But here in the U.S we keep our canine companions close to our family's,not cows or pigs (Livestock)Germany has concentration like camps for confiscated pitbulls ..Dont they???I would think you may be hardend to this type of treatment,Some people here in the US don't know this,I do. Your post would be coming from left field in an informed Americans eyes..I don't think it would be appropriate to drown or electrocute to death Livestock either...Anyway you flip this mike vick coin,you can't escape the intentional brutality and torture for his own amusment.They didn't fry up the dogs and eat them,because that's barbecuing American culture,they discarded them and drank some more 40s.heres a sample of the german position on almost any dog larger than 20kg"You cannot import into Germany, American Pitbull Terriers, the Staffordshire bull terrier or the Am Staff . This is a Federal law. In addition there is likely to be introduced a law restricting all dogs over 40cm or 20kg in weight to being on a lead. Any signs of aggression and they wil be further restricted to being muzzled.

The atmoshphere in Germany for many dog owners is abusive and threatening. Dogs have been attacked and owners are being verbaly abused. The German national tourist office advise you to visit with dogs only if you are prepared to put up with some difficulties. In addition some areas in Germany list up to 42 breeds with restrictions"

Perhaps this little bit of info will enlighten some on where your opinion is manifested..

So if Mike Vick was eating the dogs it would be cool?

P.S.: I'm an American, man. Born in San Diego, CA.

[ftony]

So if Mike Vick was eating the dogs it would be cool?

P.S.: I'm an American, man. Born in San Diego, CA.

LOL.OK,Your Location says germany.How am I supposed to know?No it wouldn't be cool,but it would make the killings for a purpose(weird but a constructive purpose) In my opinion he just killed them because he gets off on killing .IMO Any sensible moral human being would surmise his ruthless behavior was uncalled for.Hell Richard Stratton the godfather of dog fighting never mentioned any such treatment to the beloved fighting dog as he put it.I doubt very highly mike vick would plead guilty if he was not in fact guilty of all accusations made.Some are playing the oh we don't know he enjoyed the killing card.But fact is the prosecution has overwhelming evidence and eyewitness testimony to convict him.The evidence so strong his money isn't worth spit.So keep that card in your pocket,vick already folded...

[ftony]

First I'm not defending Mike Vicks actions. Check my previous posts. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of many on this board and elsewhere. I have a rescued American Bulldog that was used for fighting and he is completely docile around my kids, wife, and our female dogs. Your's and other's anger is misguided in my opinion. No where has it been proven that Mike Vick 'got off' on killing these animals. No where is it mentioned that he 'got off' on torturing this animals. He used similar methods used in slaughter houses (electrocution, shootings, etc.) To Vick and many in the south, Pitbulls and other dogs (particularly hunting dogs) are service animals, not pets. And not all racing horses and racing dogs are put down humanely. Check many websites of rescued sporting animals and you will see how 'ethically' some are treated. All I'm saying is this Mike Vick case has got so many people in such an uproar that its ridiculous. Again, Leonard Little killed a woman in a DUI accident, he got an 8 month suspension and 8 months in jail. There are many worse criminals in the country that get less sentences and create less uproar than Mike Vick. This whole thing is ridiculous. I once heard a saying, "America loves a hero, but Americans love to see heroes fall even more".

As far as his suspension is concerned, I think it well justified, but a lifetime ban is ridiculous as well. His suspension is based not on dog fighting but on gambling. That's just bullshit! I see professional football players every weekend here in Vegas (hell I hang out with many of them) gambling constantly. Anyway, how many actors, politicians, and athletes have gotten in trouble and gotten chances to redeem themselves. Look at Jason Giambi, Robert Downey, Ted Kennedy, George Bush, Bill Clinton, etc. If Mike Vick comes out of prison (which I think he deserves because he did break the law), vows to get involved against the cruelty of animals and gives as much money to this cause as he's done for his Mike Vick foundation (everybody seems to forget what Vick has done for HUMANS with his foundation, and yes he is personally involved), then he deserves the same chance at redemption as the rest of us.

That is awesome you rescued your dog.Im sure he's a happy guy for that.As for whether vick got off on killing.Well the evidence of selective and various methods of killing would lead one to believe otherwise.As for the way people think of dogs in the south is no excuse for his actions and inhuman treatment of another living creature.A bitter enemy would deserve a more honorable way of death.As for these racing dogs and horses that are supposedly hung or electrocuted,I'm sorry I have never heard of such a thing.As far as the Richard little case,there's a huge difference there.Unless Richard got in his car,did not like the way a person crossed in front of him so he guns it and runs them down.Well I suppose you would of had a point.What vick did was,intentionally breed fight and kill in a bizarre cruel premeditated manner that is unacceptable.As far as the indefinite suspension,hey if you need to finagle a little paper work pencil up a gambling charge as well,so be it.Im sure the dog he held under water thought his murder was unfair as well.As for a second chance,I don't know I'm to dam pissed off right now to think about what mike vick deserves,right now alls he deserves is three meals and a bunk...

[shark333]

vick is dumber than a box of rocks. you can take the boy out of the hood but you cant take da hood out of the boy. poor guy... good day!

[DSM4Life]

They just finished the jury selection phase of the Michael Vick case

[jerseyboy]

Maybe there is a god after all. This son-of-a-bitch is getting almost everything he deserves. When he gets a good stomping in prison I'll be happy. I love the part where it says, "Nike severed its ties with him Friday, Reebok already has stopped selling his jersey and is accepting refunds for it. Upper Deck removed his card from its 2007 collection."

RICHMOND, Va. - Michael Vick can only hope he will get more leniency from the judge than he did from the NFL.

Roger Goodell's letter informing the Atlanta Falcons quarterback of his suspension reads almost like a goodbye, the NFL commissioner doing nothing to hide his disgust and his disdain.

A similar reaction by U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson, who will be presented with Vick's plea agreement on Monday, could mean years in prison.

In court papers, Vick admitted bankrolling "Bad Newz Kennels" and participating in the killing of dogs in the dogfighting operation. But he tried to deflect much of his culpability in the grisly enterprise onto his friends.

That didn't deter Goodell, who was quick to hold Vick responsible, suspending him indefinitely and without pay Friday from the job that made him a millionaire and a superstar. The decision, on the brink of the season opener, left the Falcons without their headline player.

Goodell made it forcefully clear Vick wasn't helping himself by trying to pawn off blame on his three co-defendants in the case.

"You are now justifiably facing consequences for the decisions you made and the conduct in which you engaged. Your career, freedom and public standing are now in the most serious jeopardy," Goodell wrote.

The portrait of Vick as a person who enjoyed the heinous blood sport has fueled protests by animal-rights activists and destroyed his image, prompting sponsors to dump him.

After initially denying his involvement, the 27-year-old player has said little publicly about the case. Privately, he met with Goodell and Falcons owner Arthur Blank when the investigation was just beginning, and lied to both.

Vick's defense attorney, Billy Martin, said Vick will "explain his actions" publicly, but did not say when. The "Tom Joyner Morning Show," a syndicated program based in Dallas, said it will have a live interview with Vick on Tuesday, and he will take questions from callers.

No matter what Vick says or doesn't say, the final word rests with Hudson, a judge whose household includes a Bison Friche, a white powder puff of a dog.

As he emphasized to Vick's co-defendants when they agreed to their plea deals, Hudson is not bound by a prosecutor's recommendations or by sentencing guidelines.

Vick will plead guilty to conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and to sponsor a dog in an animal-fighting venture. Prosecutors will suggest a term of 12 to 18 months, but Hudson could give him five years, or more. The sentencing likely will be set before the end of the year.

His lawyers say they will try to minimize Vick's involvement.

"Our position has been that we are going to try to help Judge Hudson understand all the facts and Michael's role," Martin said in telephone interview. "Michael's role was different than others associated with this incident."

That role has been widely and loudly debated on sports talk radio, TV and football stadiums around the country.

Even before Vick admitted to his participation in the brutal sport, animal-rights groups protested outside NFL headquarters, Falcons camp and the federal court.

Nike severed its ties with him Friday, Reebok already has stopped selling his jersey and is accepting refunds for it. Upper Deck removed his card from its 2007 collection.

Reaction to the case largely has been divided along racial lines. Most of those defending Vick are black supporters; protesters have been predominantly white.

Black officials in Surry County got hate mail accusing them of dragging their feet on a local investigation to protect one of their own, and even the prosecutor there suggested race and profile were motives when the feds got involved.

The Atlanta chapter of the NAACP, which urged the public not to prematurely judge Vick, came to his defense again this week, saying he should be allowed to pursue his football career after serving his sentence.

In Vick's old neighborhood, he's seen as someone who never forgot his roots.

After deciding to enter the NFL draft, he picked the Boys & Girls Club where he spent much of his youth to make the announcement, remembering how it shaped his life.

A few months ago, mentor James "Poo" Johnson called Vick to ask if he could get some equipment for a Boys & Girls Club tournament. Vick sent the stuff along and provided school supplies and air conditioners to needy residents in the city.

His lawyers hope those stories showing Vick's better side will have sway. But it was the sway of those hometown ties that got Vick into this mess.

His supporters portray him as a victim of his own intense loyalty to the guys he hung out with before he became rich and famous. One such friend was Tony Taylor of Hampton, the first of three co-defendants to cop a plea.

Earnest Hardy, who lives next door to Vick's property in rural Surry County, said Taylor once told him Vick had promised: "If I ever make it, I'm going to look out for you."

Said Hardy: "So Tony was working at Marva Maid Dairy over in Newport News and he said when Mike got that big contract with all that money, he came and got him. He said, 'Didn't I tell you I was going to look out for you?' And that's what he did."

But they didn't look out for Vick.

Co-defendants Quanis Phillips of Atlanta and Purnell Peace pleaded guilty and agreed to testify against Vick if the case went to trial.

"If you go back and look at the list, the people that reaped the most personal benefit from being close to Mike are really the ones that are sinking him further down now," Hardy said.

When authorities found dozens of dogs and equipment commonly used in dogfighting at his property, Vick claimed he'd hardly ever been to the house and that family members had taken advantage of his generosity.

"If I'm not there, I don't know what's going on," he said.

Vick's written plea agreement filed with the court Friday erased that notion.

He acknowledged bankrolling the operation, participating in the execution of dogs in April and sponsoring _ and sometimes attending _ dogfights over the past six years.

The dogs had names such as "Magic," "Tiny" and "Too Short," and the enterprise's name, "Bad Newz Kennels," was an homage to the street name of his native Newport News.

In his plea agreement, Vick said that although he provided money for others to bet on the fights, he never placed bets himself or shared in any winnings _ a distinction that clearly carried no weight with Goodell. The commissioner also cleared the Falcons to try to get back $22 million in signing bonuses paid as part of a 10-year, $130 million contract.

Atlanta made him the No. 1 draft pick in 2001 after a dazzling three-year stint at Virginia Tech, where he had been a model player _ polite, soft-spoken and humble _ and led the Hokies to the 2000 national championship game.

By all accounts, it was good being Mike Vick.

He took over as the starter in 2002, leading Atlanta to the playoffs for the first time in four years. In 2004, Atlanta advanced to the NFC championship game, and the Falcons gave Vick the big contract _ then the richest awarded in NFL history.

Now, it's all come crashing down.

Vick's troubles have left those that knew him _ or thought they did _ flummoxed.

"The Michael Vick I knew here at Tech was a warm, caring guy, a generous guy, gracious and polite and a very friendly person," said Bill Roth, who dealt with Vick regularly as Virginia Tech's radio play-by-play announcer.

Still, the first seeds of trouble were planted in an interview that Vick did shortly before he was drafted. He talked proudly of his interest in dogs and said he wanted to open his own kennel.

Then there were a few bumps:

_a middle-finger salute to Falcons fans after a 31-13 drubbing by the New Orleans Saints at the Georgia Dome last November.

_airport security's confiscation of a water bottle with a hidden compartment that allegedly reeked of marijuana, an incident that made Vick the butt of jokes on late-night talk shows in January.

_a 2005 lawsuit, ultimately dismissed, by a woman who claimed Vick sought treatment for a sexually transmitted disease under the alias "Ron Mexico" after infecting her.

Embarrassing situations, but Vick escaped them as adroitly as he dodged defenders in becoming the first NFL quarterback to rush for more than 1,000 yards in a season.

He met his match in the U.S. Attorney's office in Richmond, and an indictment that described how Bad Newz Kennels dogs were executed after being beaten in fights, or for not showing enough ferocity in test sessions. In one case, it said Vick was consulted before a beaten dog was wet down and electrocuted.

For details like that, Vick's NFL career could be over.

Dan Shannon, a spokesman for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, said more than a guilty plea and an apology should be demanded if Vick is allowed to play again.

"It's not outside the realm of possibility if he makes a sincere effort not only to own up to what he's done and apologize, but takes steps to try to prevent this thing from happening in the future," he said. "So far, we haven't seen anything indicating that's the road he wants to take."

___

Associated Press Sports Writer Hank Kurz Jr. contributed to this report.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

printable version

[jerseyboy]

I think it's absolutely hilarious how everyone in this thread eats animals that are treated just as bad as these fighting dogs LEGALLY. If you hate cruel treatment of animals then become a vegetarian. If this story was about Michael Vick being cruel to a chicken or a cow no one would give a damn...

This is absolutely false. I think it's hilarious that you somehow can make the comparison. Cows and chickens aren't tortured for sick pleasure and monetary gains. They are slaughtered one time for food. There is a huge difference when something is done out of necessity for survival. You think everyone is in the kind of health where they can just give up meat and survive on vegetables and tofu? You think the guys are standing around in the slaughter house lau***n and drinking forties? Did something of value come from these poor dogs suffering? Cows and chickens die maybe even in inhumane ways yes, that's too bad but at least it's for a reason. Those dogs lived hellish lives and died horrible deaths for nothing at all.

[Renesis]

I think it's absolutely hilarious how everyone in this thread eats animals that are treated just as bad as these fighting dogs LEGALLY. If you hate cruel treatment of animals then become a vegetarian. If this story was about Michael Vick being cruel to a chicken or a cow no one would give a damn...

What Vick did was wrong, but why should he be punished to exorbitantly for something when worse things are done on ranches around the US on a daily basis? An animal is an animal. A pitbull is not worth more than a cow or a pig just because it's a pet. Give him the normal punishment for these actions, nothing more, nothing less.

With that logic we are not worth more than an animal just because we can think.....

[scriptfactory]

This is absolutely false. I think it's hilarious that you somehow can make the comparison. Cows and chickens aren't tortured for sick pleasure and monetary gains. They are slaughtered one time for food. There is a huge difference when something is done out of necessity for survival. You think everyone is in the kind of health where they can just give up meat and survive on vegetables and tofu? You think the guys are standing around in the slaughter house lau***n and drinking forties? Did something of value come from these poor dogs suffering? Cows and chickens die maybe even in inhumane ways yes, that's too bad but at least it's for a reason. Those dogs lived hellish lives and died horrible deaths for nothing at all.

Cows and chickens ARE tortured for monetary gains. Do some research, please. Is veal necessary? How about you do a search for "cows" and "mastitis". How about you read about the way pigs are kept in their own feces... for profit. We abuse animals for profit. Dog or cow, humans abuse animals for profit.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished. I'm saying, let the punishment fit the crime.

[scriptfactory]

With that logic we are not worth more than an animal just because we can think.....

Well, animals can think as well.

We are worth more than a dog or a cat because we possess sapience and we need to care for our fellow humans first, other animals second. If you don't feel a human life is more precious than the life of a dog then you have issues.

Just following YOUR logic, why is a dog worth more than a cow? Because they live in our homes? Rats live in our homes as pets and we do worse things to them... So do pigs.

[BgMc31]

That is awesome you rescued your dog.Im sure he's a happy guy for that.As for whether vick got off on killing.Well the evidence of selective and various methods of killing would lead one to believe otherwise.As for the way people think of dogs in the south is no excuse for his actions and inhuman treatment of another living creature.A bitter enemy would deserve a more honorable way of death.As for these racing dogs and horses that are supposedly hung or electrocuted,I'm sorry I have never heard of such a thing.As far as the Richard little case,there's a huge difference there.Unless Richard got in his car,did not like the way a person crossed in front of him so he guns it and runs them down.Well I suppose you would of had a point.What vick did was,intentionally breed fight and kill in a bizarre cruel premeditated manner that is unacceptable.As far as the indefinite suspension,hey if you need to finagle a little paper work pencil up a gambling charge as well,so be it.Im sure the dog he held under water thought his murder was unfair as well.As for a second chance,I don't know I'm to dam pissed off right now to think about what mike vick deserves,right now alls he deserves is three meals and a bunk...

Article on dog racing: http://www.hsus.org/pets/issues_affe...ing_facts.html

Article on horse racing: http://everything2.com/?node_id=1258238 and http://www3.vet.upenn.edu/labs/equin...02/freeman.htm

[eliteforce]

Yea and alot of the meat products you buy come from all over the world, the US might have slaughter standards but I'm sure in many countries that export meat product to the US it's just drag them in and chop chop..and when they catch fish they just throw them to the side and let them squirm to death..
i saw on TV one of vicks friends that was busted too, looks like some rural person living in a trailer out there..my guess is that vik comes from a rural farming area (before he made big $ in the nfl) and he was doing this dog fighting thing to help his old friends make some money..and people who chopped up a few hogs and chickens don't see what the big deal is..i guess he'd be better off if he just forgot about all those people where he came from and spent his off season time in hollywood fking and driving around in his ferari..

[jerseyboy]

Cows and chickens ARE tortured for monetary gains. Do some research, please. Is veal necessary? How about you do a search for "cows" and "mastitis". How about you read about the way pigs are kept in their own feces... for profit. We abuse animals for profit. Dog or cow, humans abuse animals for profit.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished. I'm saying, let the punishment fit the crime.

Don't patronize me. I'm not stupid. Profit from gambling and profit from providing food for the country are somehow the same? Where is the money going from those slaughtered cows, pigs and chickens? Probably to support some families. Where do you think the money goes from gambling on dogfights? I can only imagine.

[scriptfactory]

Don't patronize me. I'm not stupid. Profit from gambling and profit from providing food for the country are somehow the same? Where is the money going from those slaughtered cows, pigs and chickens? Probably to support some families. Where do you think the money goes from gambling on dogfights? I can only imagine.

If you don't want to be patronized then don't say things that leave you wide open for it! Just messin' with you, man.

It's still true, we abuse animals for profit, no matter how you spin it. If there were families benefiting from the profits of dogfighting (and I'm sure there are) would that make it better? No.

The money from those slaughtered farm animals are going to line the pockets of some rich dude somewhere. Sure it supports some poor workers but you don't think dogfighting supports people, too? I was watching a documentary on dogfighting a few weeks ago on National Geographic and it's a way of life for some people. They just don't know/think it's wrong. When you are raised killing animals for a living on a farm what does it matter if the animal is a dog or a pig?

And how about the employees who take such horrible care of these farm animals, like the people who were caught doing horrible things at KFC... they were taking the chickens, slamming them against walls and jumping on them. They tore off their heads while they were living, spray painted them and more! Guess what happened to those workers? Now imagine if they were doing the same thing to dogs?

[ftony]

Article on dog racing: http://www.hsus.org/pets/issues_affe...ing_facts.html

Article on horse racing: http://everything2.com/?node_id=1258238 and http://www3.vet.upenn.edu/labs/equin...02/freeman.htm

Thank you for those links, I have to say I knew about large adoption programs for greyhounds, I also knew they were humanly euthanized in alarming numbers .I never heard of a dog being bluggend or starved. That's not right and a great point you have made. The horse racing link eh ,I know people who own race horses and they receive better medical treatment than I do. I cant speak for all but I know first hand that its not nearly as bad is what I read about the greyhounds. However, I don't feel just because the person or people who have done other crimes and got away with it excuse the actions of others who have been caught. If anything pointing out those horrific actions directs more anger towards the guy holding the bag at the time, mike vick. So while I definitely agree something needs be done to make dog racing illegal as quick as possible. Only then it will be a serious offense when an infraction occurs in the eyes of the law. Dog fighting has made that leap many years ago and is currently illegal in all our states, therefore while there is a correlation of animal cruelty. The fact remains mike was caught and he was caught doing something we all identify is wrong, with all the animal cruelty going on in this country when someone is caught in a illegal activity involving ruthless cruel treatment to animals, its imperative to pounce on them .Those articles only enforce my position to punish vick, not sympathize for the criminal that has been caught, and certainly not seek leniency because others have not...

[ftony]

OK .So food sources, our nations meat industry's contribution to our economy is now under fire. Its under fire because some lowlife, senselessly and ruthlessly bred fought and killed his animals for reason and methods that can leave even hardened criminals left to ponder why.... OK, so in terms of your analogies, what's next for our great nations fall to criminals??The next drug dealer busted is going to say what the fuk Bayer sells drugs? Then you will have you guys posting drug related side effects and deaths from major drug company's... please you guys are really reaching and are getting desperate here, makes me wonder what your motive is........

[BgMc31]

Thank you for those links, I have to say I knew about large adoption programs for greyhounds, I also knew they were humanly euthanized in alarming numbers .I never heard of a dog being bluggend or starved. That's not right and a great point you have made. The horse racing link eh ,I know people who own race horses and they receive better medical treatment than I do. I cant speak for all but I know first hand that its not nearly as bad is what I read about the greyhounds. However, I don't feel just because the person or people who have done other crimes and got away with it excuse the actions of others who have been caught. If anything pointing out those horrific actions directs more anger towards the guy holding the bag at the time, mike vick. So while I definitely agree something needs be done done to make dog racing illegal as quick as possible. Only then it will be a serious offense when an infraction occurs in the eyes of the law. Dog fighting has made that leap many years ago and is currently illegal in all our states, therefore while there is a correlation of animal cruelty. The fact remains mike was caught and he was caught doing something we all identify is wrong, with all the animal cruelty going on in this country when someone is caught in a illegal activity involving ruthless cruel treatment to animals, its imperative to pounce on them .Those articles only enforce my position to punish vick, not sympathize for the criminal that has been caught, and certainly not seek leniency because others have not...

I posted that not to get leniency for Mike Vick. Like I said before he broke the law so he deserves to be punished. I posted those links to show that the outrage directed towards Vick needs to be directed at others as well. Until Mike Vick no one gave two shits about the ethical treatment of animals in other sporting arenas. My question is, why? People need to quit being so hypocritical.

And yes, Mike Vick does come from rural Virginia, not the 'hood'. I really don't believe he is some sadistic killer that will eventually turn to maiming and torturing human beings like some have implied. The southern culture of dog fighting is in lock step with what Mike Vick has been accused of. Watch the latest episode of Real Sports and you will see what I mean. To these people, these dogs are service animals, not pets. I don't agree with this mentality, but again, this outrage is way overblown when the treatment of animals in many other industries are just as bad and we don't hear about them at all.

[scriptfactory]

OK .So food sources, our nations meat industry's contribution to our economy is now under fire. Its under fire because some lowlife, senselessly and ruthlessly bred fought and killed his animals for reason and methods that can leave even hardened criminals left to ponder why.... OK, so in terms of your analogies, what's next for our great nations fall to the criminals... The next drug dealer busted is going to say what the fuk Bayer sells drugs? Then you will have you guys posting drug related side effects and deaths from major drug company's... please you guys are really reaching and are getting desperate here, makes me wonder what your motive is........

No one said Vick was innocent. No one said he shouldn't be punished.

You obviously missed the point so no use in debating any further. I'm going to go eat a dog...

[ftony]

No one said Vick was innocent. No one said he shouldn't be punished.

You obviously missed the point so no use in debating any further. I'm going to go eat a dog...

I have a dog for you ..come by..lol

[scriptfactory]

I have a dog for you ..come by..lol

I already have a few. My kids love to eat them, too... with ketchup. :P

[Mogamedogz]

I posted that not to get leniency for Mike Vick. Like I said before he broke the law so he deserves to be punished. I posted those links to show that the outrage directed towards Vick needs to be directed at others as well. Until Mike Vick no one gave two shits about the ethical treatment of animals in other sporting arenas. My question is, why? People need to quit being so hypocritical.

And yes, Mike Vick does come from rural Virginia, not the 'hood'. I really don't believe he is some sadistic killer that will eventually turn to maiming and torturing human beings like some have implied. The southern culture of dog fighting is in lock step with what Mike Vick has been accused of. Watch the latest episode of Real Sports and you will see what I mean. To these people, these dogs are service animals, not pets. I don't agree with this mentality, but again, this outrage is way overblown when the treatment of animals in many other industries are just as bad and we don't hear about them at all.

You have made some of the most REALISTIC posts in this thread. Good job.

[eliteforce]

Oh great now Dog Racing is cruel too

the dogs have to run around a track chasing a fake rabit, i guess the cruel part is the trickery, making that poor doggy think it's going to get to eat a rabit but it's actualy just a dummy rabit, and wait a second - their teaching dogs to eat rabits, thats just wrong , they should teach dogs to be friends with the rabits, and when the rabits eat all our crops, who are we to kill them with dogs, those rabits have a right to eat our corn. now i guess ftony is gonna tell us about all this terrible stuff that happens in dog racing, like they inject the dogs with steroids , it's ok to inject ourselvs with steroids because we obviously all do that, but the dog? thats mean, doggy have a little booboo and make a little yelp when you stick he needle in his butt-thats cruel..this is a serious offense in the eyes of the law these people should goto jail for a year, go ahead and let some of those child rapists out, it's too crowded, bring in the dog racers..

ftony i thnk you might be a little too close to you dogs, your not sleeping together are you?

So while I definitely agree something needs be done to make dog racing illegal as quick as possible. Only then it will be a serious offense when an infraction occurs in the eyes of the law.

[ftony]

Oh great now Dog Racing is cruel too

the dogs have to run around a track chasing a fake rabit, i guess the cruel part is the trickery, making that poor doggy think it's going to get to eat a rabit but it's actualy just a dummy rabit, and wait a second - their teaching dogs to eat rabits, thats just wrong , they should teach dogs to be friends with the rabits, and when the rabits eat all our crops, who are we to kill them with dogs, those rabits have a right to eat our corn. now i guess ftony is gonna tell us about all this terrible stuff that happens in dog racing, like they inject the dogs with steroids , it's ok to inject ourselvs with steroids because we obviously all do that, but the dog? thats mean, doggy have a little booboo and make a little yelp when you stick he needle in his butt-thats cruel..this is a serious offense in the eyes of the law these people should goto jail for a year, go ahead and let some of those child rapists out, it's too crowded, bring in the dog racers..

ftony i thnk you might be a little too close to you dogs, your not sleeping together are you?

I guess you didnt bother to read bigmacs link on dog racing .I agree to it, I didnt post it.You say i sleep with my dog?what are you some kind of freak?Got some wierd shit on your mind..bit#h

[ftony]

Oh great now Dog Racing is cruel too

the dogs have to run around a track chasing a fake rabit, i guess the cruel part is the trickery, making that poor doggy think it's going to get to eat a rabit but it's actualy just a dummy rabit, and wait a second - their teaching dogs to eat rabits, thats just wrong , they should teach dogs to be friends with the rabits, and when the rabits eat all our crops, who are we to kill them with dogs, those rabits have a right to eat our corn. now i guess ftony is gonna tell us about all this terrible stuff that happens in dog racing, like they inject the dogs with steroids , it's ok to inject ourselvs with steroids because we obviously all do that, but the dog? thats mean, doggy have a little booboo and make a little yelp when you stick he needle in his butt-thats cruel..this is a serious offense in the eyes of the law these people should goto jail for a year, go ahead and let some of those child rapists out, it's too crowded, bring in the dog racers..

ftony i thnk you might be a little too close to you dogs, your not sleeping together are you?

Heres a little bit of what bigmacs link contained.Use text assist if you need to..Every year, the industry breeds tens of thousands of greyhounds, more than it can place at racetracks. This overbreeding is motivated by the desire to produce "winning" dogs. Thousands of greyhounds at each track are disposed of yearly to bring in a "fresh" group of dogs. A dog's racing career is usually over at 3½ to 4 years of age.

If able to live out his or her full life as a companion animal, a greyhound may live 13 or more years. Unfortunately, the industry kills greyhounds at various stages in the dogs' lives because they appear to lack racing potential or are injured. Many dogs, when they are no longer profitable, are adopted into good homes through rescue groups, but thousands are not. As with any business, profit is the bottom line; as a result, greyhounds are often destroyed using the least expensive methods, including gunshot. Reports of bludgeoning, abandonment, and starvation have also surfaced. Veterinarians humanely euthanize some greyhounds. theres a little something for you perhaps it may stimulate your mind with some new wacking material...lmao

[eliteforce]

in addition to those gogs euthanized, in developed countries they always take dogs off the streets and put them to sleep, but in developing countries stray dogs just roam the streets and eat vermin, so for example NewYork is overun with rats because there are no dogs and cats to keep them in check, but they euthanize stray dogs and cats in america because it's 'cruel' to let them run around like that..

I always think stray dogs have the best life because they are free to do what comes naturally to them, roam around, fend for themelves, eat rats..your dog is in jail, it's locked in the backyard with nothing to do.. and in America you can't just let dogs run around outside and kind of 'half' own them; i don't have a dog i just toss some food to the half-strays when i got some extra and they just sort of hang around our street-they seem happy, i'm not sure who owns them..one of them is missing an eye and it limps because one time it got into a fight with another dog and it came back really damaged bleeding, someone took it to the vet and the took the eye out and stiched it shut, see it's natural for dogs to viciously fight..their predators, , he still seems hapy and he keeps people from coming into my place just because sometimes i throw him some leftovers....if it were over there everyone would btch, "oo the dog this the dog that,the dogs out, who dog is that? wait he's being mean to the dog, the dog bit my dog"

you people regulate sht too much, every fking little thing has to be made illegal, everything has to have a restriction, their constantly making new restrictions, you don't like the way they breed dogs so dog racing has to be made illegal, whats next, ah dog shows, i'm sure theres something wrong with that too..

[ftony]

in addition to those gogs euthanized, in developed countries they always take dogs off the streets and put them to sleep, but in developing countries stray dogs just roam the streets and eat vermin, so for example NewYork is overun with rats because there are no dogs and cats to keep them in check, but they euthanize stray dogs and cats in america because it's 'cruel' to let them run around like that..

I always think stray dogs have the best life because they are free to do what comes naturally to them, roam around, fend for themelves, eat rats..your dog is in jail, it's locked in the backyard with nothing to do.. and in America you can't just let dogs run around outside and kind of 'half' own them; i don't have a dog i just toss some food to the half-strays when i got some extra and they just sort of hang around our street-they seem happy, i'm not sure who owns them..one of them is missing an eye and it limps because one time it got into a fight with another dog and it came back really damaged bleeding, someone took it to the vet and the took the eye out and stiched it shut, see it's natural for dogs to viciously fight..their predators, , he still seems hapy and he keeps people from coming into my place just because sometimes i throw him some leftovers....if it were over there everyone would btch, "oo the dog this the dog that,the dogs out, who dog is that? wait he's being mean to the dog, the dog bit my dog"

you people regulate sht too much, every fking little thing has to be made illegal, everything has to have a restriction, their constantly making new restrictions, you don't like the way they breed dogs so dog racing has to be made illegal, whats next, ah dog shows, i'm sure theres something wrong with that too..

I guess other countries do lots of things that we no longer do.Many strays once roamed but it became problematic for many city's...But Hey your rite good vermin control.Growing up I remember many strays around the nieghborhood.AS for my dog he is actually lucky,I own my own business and I am able to come home a few times a day to let him out to play,chase rabbits or whatever he gets off on...He Seems to love carrying around old car tires,LOL his head is 23inches around.I guess you could say its like a playground for him,ropes for him to tug etc.Far from prison.I know the type of people that own dogs just to own them.lock them away and just feed them ,I wont even give you my opinion on that...Just To summarize my stance here incase you have not read everything I posted.My biggest problem here is the senseless killing,the ruthlessness of what he did.Not so much that he fought the dogs,I mean yes I don't agree with dog fighting but what he did would make even a dog fighter sick( reference: THE World of the American Pit bull Terrier,Richard Stratten)...I Bet if he set up a rescue next city over,he could have easily sent all his underachieves there,but no he'd rather kill them in a bizarre manner.I heard and don't know if its true.He beat the dogs off the ground by there hind legs.He could have sacrificed a little bit of money to keep some code of ethics for the sake of human decency.If you don't agree,what can I say that's your choice to make about how people in our society should treat our animals. I'm much more likely to hurt a person than an animal as I have had my run ins ,so hey I guess that's my issue,we all have some...

[Giants11]

Don't patronize me. I'm not stupid. Profit from gambling and profit from providing food for the country are somehow the same? Where is the money going from those slaughtered cows, pigs and chickens? Probably to support some families. Where do you think the money goes from gambling on dogfights? I can only imagine.

Are you on crack dude? Where are getting this load of BS.

The Cattle Industry etc... is in it for bigger profits that Dog fighting will ever be. And yes the animals that we consume are tortured. There's plenty of proof as well if you decide to do some research.

But my guess is, you'll tell me that since they are our food source it doesn't matter how they live or how they die.

I'll say it again, it seems when it comes to Dogs people throw down the gauntlet. Any other animal, fvck'em who cares, they are our food.

[ftony]

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/play...399&src=sports

[ftony]

Are you on crack dude? Where are getting this load of BS.

The Cattle Industry etc... is in it for bigger profits that Dog fighting will ever be. And yes the animals that we consume are tortured. There's plenty of proof as well if you decide to do some research.

But my guess is, you'll tell me that since they are our food source it doesn't matter how they live or how they die.

I'll say it again, it seems when it comes to Dogs people throw down the gauntlet. Any other animal, fvck'em who cares, they are our food.

The cattle industry is a major contribution to this country's economy,Dog fighting is contributing to delinquents buying drugs and beer..Yes,cattle is a food source and it sucks they are mistreated,but they are killed for a purpose,not for amusement...no Hard feelings dude I respect your opinion, yes cattle are animals to..

[Chitown Raider]

I've learned so much reading all this bs, that I'm considering raising pitbulls, and "train" them to bite peeps like elite.

[ironfist]

I agree alot with jerseyboy and ftony...Here's my stance on things. I have nothing against pittbulls, I'm sure the breed is great but man has managede to destroy the breed. And I'm not saying every one but the meanest of the mean and kept and bred, line bred, and inbred...These animals are jacked up. Alot of them aren't normal in the head. I would probably compare it to psycotic and bopolar people....


That being said, I love bully breeds. I own 4 Presa Canario's myself and would not trade them for the world. I am sure there are great pittbull pts out there but too many people have ruined too many lines for me to chance having them as pets...As far as Vick goes, what a friggin moron. First of all, you make that kind of money and you can't come up with some better, more entertaining hobbies? Maybe buy some boats, race cars etc...Secondly, he's a dam idiot for having the things on land registered to him. Don't be a dumbass. Buy a few acres and put it in ur buddies name and let him have it. It's a drop in the bucket to him...He'll never play another down of football again.

Now here's what I really have a problem with, while I hate dog fighting and do not condone it one bit, have some friggin humanity. If that's your thing and you fights dogs,whatever. I won't even get into the if he wants to fight then he should fight cause I am sure many guys do both. Here's my problem, skinning the animals alive, electrocuting them, torturing to get them to fight, starving them to get them to fight, slamming them on the ground to kill them, stealing peoples pets as bait dogs etc...That sick

[jerseyboy]

The cattle industry is a major contribution to this country's economy,Dog fighting is contributing to delinquents buying drugs and beer..Yes,cattle is a food source and it sucks they are mistreated,but they are killed for a purpose,not for amusement...no Hard feelings dude I respect your opinion, yes cattle are animals to..

Thank you for making my point for me.

[jerseyboy]

I agree alot with jerseyboy and ftony...Here's my stance on things. I have nothing against pittbulls, I'm sure the breed is great but man has managede to destroy the breed. And I'm not saying every one but the meanest of the mean and kept and bred, line bred, and inbred...These animals are jacked up. Alot of them aren't normal in the head. I would probably compare it to psycotic and bopolar people....


That being said, I love bully breeds. I own 4 Presa Canario's myself and would not trade them for the world. I am sure there are great pittbull pts out there but too many people have ruined too many lines for me to chance having them as pets...As far as Vick goes, what a friggin moron. First of all, you make that kind of money and you can't come up with some better, more entertaining hobbies? Maybe buy some boats, race cars etc...Secondly, he's a dam idiot for having the things on land registered to him. Don't be a dumbass. Buy a few acres and put it in ur buddies name and let him have it. It's a drop in the bucket to him...He'll never play another down of football again.

Now here's what I really have a problem with, while I hate dog fighting and do not condone it one bit, have some friggin humanity. If that's your thing and you fights dogs,whatever. I won't even get into the if he wants to fight then he should fight cause I am sure many guys do both. Here's my problem, skinning the animals alive, electrocuting them, torturing to get them to fight, starving them to get them to fight, slamming them on the ground to kill them, stealing peoples pets as bait dogs etc...That sick

It was only a couple years ago when 2 Presa Canarios killed a woman. I did a search and bam up comes another story where a woman in Florida was also killed by a Presa. It was her own dog. Then another in San Francisco in her own apartment. How come the media hasn't jumped all over these stories and blown it up like all Presa's are killers? We had a family friend who's Dalmation attacked there son and tore his ear off. Better outlaw them too. You must really have your hands full with 4. Those are big ass dogs.

[Chitown Raider]

It was only a couple years ago when 2 Presa Canarios killed a woman. I did a search and bam up comes another story where a woman in Florida was also killed by a Presa. It was her own dog. Then another in San Francisco in her own apartment. How come the media hasn't jumped all over these stories and blown it up like all Presa's are killers? We had a family friend who's Dalmation attacked there son and tore his ear off. Better outlaw them too. You must really have your hands full with 4. Those are big ass dogs.

My uncle had a Dalmation back when me and my cousin were growing up that attacked my cousin after the two of us were play wrestiling. My cousin and I were about 10 years old at the time and this Dalmation "Samson" locked on to my cousin's forearm I kicked it in the nuts but I just made things worse as the dog bit down even harder. It was a ****ed scene after that.

[***xxx***]

This post may have relevance in germany.But here in the U.S we keep our canine companions close to our family's,not cows or pigs (Livestock)Germany has concentration like camps for confiscated pitbulls ..Dont they???

buhahhahaha this statement is a bit exaggerated LOL concentration camps...well if you call a cage a concentration camp, then yes it s true

[ftony]

buhahhahaha this statement is a bit exaggerated LOL concentration camps...well if you call a cage a concentration camp, then yes it s true

THE British Kennel Club is leading international protests against a decision by the German government to impose a draconian clampdown on pit bull terriers and other "fighting" breeds.

British dog owners are being inundated with calls for help from their German counterparts since the stringent anti-dog laws were introduced by Germany's national and regional governments a fortnight ago.

The Kennel Club, in a letter to Gerhard Schröder, the German Chancellor, said that British owners had been "horrified" by the new laws, which "discriminated" against 14 breeds, among which are some of the most popular in this country. A spokesman said last night that British owners had been warned not to take these breeds to Germany for shows or on holiday because they could be breaking the law.

advertisementA campaign started by the British Our Dogs newspaper, has prompted protests from around the world. In several German states, "fighting" dogs had been threatened with death at the hands of government vets before the outcry forced them to drop the proposals. In other parts of Germany, dogs have been attacked in the streets, doused with petrol and set alight, and fed razor blades.
The German laws, which have strong parallels with the much-derided dangerous dog legislation brought in by the British Government in 1991, followed the fatal savaging of a six-year-old Turkish boy by two bull terriers in a school playground in Hamburg, prompting a public outcry.

The measures, introduced by a majority of Germany's 16 federal states, make it compulsory for owners of "fighting breeds" to keep their dogs muzzled and on a lead at all times. Owners also have to take a mandatory examination on dog rearing and training and must undergo a "reliability test". If owners fail to pass the tests or comply with the regulations, local authorities are empowered to confiscate their pets.

The measures have been personally backed by Mr Schröder. He told the Berlin parliament in the wake of the Hamburg killing: "These fighting machines must be taken off the streets." German dog owners, however, say that the strict new laws, which have received the vociferous support of the country's tabloid press, have created an hysterical anti-dog climate in which dogs and their owners are increasingly subjected to sadistic attacks and abuse.

In one incident in the north German town of Lübeck last week, a group of so-called "dog haters" were held responsible for a gruesome attack on a pit bull terrier that was fed a sausage stuffed with razor blades. In other reported incidents, dogs have been doused in petrol and set ablaze, while the owners of other aggressive looking dogs have been subjected to physical attacks and abuse.
Many German dog owners are so worried by what they say is a growing climate of anti-dog aggression that they have appealed to their British counterparts for help. In some cases British dog owners have been asked to find homes for dogs now effectively proscribed in Germany.

A spokesman for the German Interior Ministry, which is responsible for enforcing national bans on the import of "fighting dogs" and the breeding of such dogs told The Telegraph: "We do not think that there is a hysterical climate. What we do notice is increased vigilance on behalf of the German public regarding these dogs."

Roger French, the chief executive of the Kennel Club, said in his letter to the German Chancellor that there was worldwide concern about the situation. He said: "We have now spoken to dozens of worried parties, including German dog owners, who all feel that this situation is spiralling out of control, largely due to media hysteria and the determination of government ministers to ensure that these breeds are effectively phased out."

Mr French said that the Kennel Club was particularly worried by the inclusion of breeds such as the Staffordshire bull terrier, the bull terrier, the bull mastiff, the Old English mastiff, the Neopolitan mastiff and the Rhodesian ridgeback. "All of these breeds are recognised and registered in the UK and are certainly not considered 'fighting dogs', or a threat to public safety by our Government."
The British Dangerous Dogs Act was rushed through Parliament after a rash of increasingly lurid newspaper headlines about fighting dogs savaging children. It placed restrictions on four breeds. This is not the exact article i read but,I will find you some other articles if you want them.I need some time digging through my fav list.I saved them in one of these dam computers...