Michael Vick plead guilty...

**kfrost06** · 08-17-2007, 02:07 PM

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) -- Two of Michael Vick's alleged cohorts in a grisly dogfighting case pleaded guilty Friday, and one said the Atlanta Falcons quarterback joined them in drowning and hanging dogs that underperformed.

With his NFL career in jeopardy and a superseding indictment in the works to add more charges, Vick and his lawyers have been talking with federal prosecutors about a possible plea agreement.

Now that all three co-defendants have entered plea bargains, Vick is on his own to cut a deal or face trial on federal charges.

The court docket did not list any appearance for Vick. One of his lawyers, Lawrence Woodward, attended Friday's hearings and declined to answer questions as he left the courthouse.

Purnell Peace, 35, of Virginia Beach and Quanis Phillips, 28, of Atlanta entered plea agreements and joined defendant Tony Taylor of Hampton, who struck a similar deal last month. The agreements require the three to cooperate in the government's case against Vick.

Sentencing is scheduled for Peace and Phillips on Nov. 30 and Taylor on Dec. 14. Vick has been barred from training camp by the NFL and is to go on trial Nov. 26.

A statement signed by Phillips as part of his plea agreement said Vick participated in the execution of about eight dogs, some by drowning and hanging.

"Phillips agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of Peace, Phillips and Vick," the statement said.

Phillips and Peace also backed Taylor's assertion that Vick was involved in gambling.

"The 'Bad Newz Kennels' operation and gambling monies were almost exclusively funded by Vick," statements by the two men say.

Peace and Phillips were charged with conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and conspiring to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture.

"Did you conspire with these folks to sponsor a dogfighting venture?" U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson asked Peace.

He replied, "Yes, sir."

The offenses are punishable by up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine, but the exact sentence will be based largely on federal sentencing guidelines. Hudson told Peace and Phillips that certain elements of their offenses will increase their sentencing ranges.

"There are aggravating circumstances in this case, there's no doubt about it," he told Phillips.

While Peace was freed, Hudson found that Phillips violated terms of his release by failing a drug test and ordered him jailed. Phillips also is on probation for a drug conviction in Atlanta, and the guilty plea could mean more jail time in that case, Hudson said.

Any outcome that ties Vick to betting on the dogfights could trigger a lifetime ban from the NFL under the league's personal conduct policy.

The 27-year-old quarterback was linked to betting by a statement signed by Taylor, who pleaded guilty and agreed to cooperate with the government, and the July 17 indictment.

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell withheld further action while the NFL conducts its own investigation. NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said the league had no comment on the latest pleas.

About 30 animal-rights activists gathered outside the courtroom. Afterward, as police officers cleared the scene, protesters continued waving large pictures of a mutilated dog.

"This is one dogfighting ring that's been annihilated," said John Goodwin, a spokesman for the Humane Society of the United States.

The four defendants all initially pleaded not guilty, and Vick issued a statement saying he looked forward to clearing his name.

A statement of facts signed by Taylor as part of his plea agreement placed Vick at the scene of several dogfights and linked him to betting. Taylor said Vick financed virtually all the "Bad Newz Kennels" operation on Vick's property in Surry County.

The case began with a search in April that turned up dozens of pit bulls and an assortment of dogfighting paraphernalia at the property, a few miles from Vick's hometown of Newport News. According to the indictment, dogs that lost fights or fared poorly in test fights were sometimes executed by hanging, electrocution or other means.

RA · 08-17-2007, 02:10 PM

Hell cut a deal too

**kfrost06** · 08-17-2007, 02:11 PM

Could this mean jail time for Vick? Should it mean jail time?

**m8intl** · 08-17-2007, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by kfrost06

Could this mean jail time for Vick? Should it mean jail time?

If he's found guilty, I hope he goes to jail. Drowning and hanging dogs? That's some fvcked up shit. Who the fvck gets their jollies killing animals?

**305GUY** · 08-17-2007, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by kfrost06

Could this mean jail time for Vick? Should it mean jail time?

Oh i really hope so, and it looks like it just might happen.. yippie!... they need to make an example out of Vick for the other rich-wannabe-gangsta millionaires in the NFL and NBA, but besides that anyone who can kill a dog in such a way can easily kill a human IMO. i mean how the f*ck can you drown, or hang, and even electrocute a dog for f*ck sake!?!? you gotta be sick in the head to do that imo...

**dwaynewade** · 08-17-2007, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by 305GUY

Oh i really hope so, and it looks like it just might happen.. yippie!... they need to make an example out of Vick for the other rich-wannabe-gangsta millionaires in the NFL and NBA, but besides that anyone who can kill a dog in such a way can easily kill a human IMO. i mean how the f*ck can you drown, or hang, and even electrocute a dog for f*ck sake!?!? you gotta be sick in the head to do that imo...

DITTO...this shit is KRZ

**Hoggage_54** · 08-17-2007, 04:40 PM

When one of Vick's dogs gave up a fight, they were either drowned, electrocuted, hung, or beaten to death against the ground. Now since it looks like Vick might be giving up his fight, by his own standards, shouldn't that mean the same for him?

RA · 08-17-2007, 02:13 PM

Oh yeah...hes going to jail for sure.

**Kratos** · 08-17-2007, 03:20 PM

My sister has an abused bull dog that was trained to fight. It is an incredibly cruel sport, in training, fighting, and the death that usually follows. When she got the dog he was starved down to 25 pounds (should be 60 or 70) to make him more agressive. After they get done starving the dogs the take small puppies, stuff their rectums with meat, and put the dogs in a cage together. The fighting dogs learn to connect food with ripping another dog apart. I have no respect for anyone who thinks dog fights are cool.

**Logan13** · 08-17-2007, 03:42 PM

Anyone still want to stick up for him?

**eliteforce** · 08-22-2007, 06:06 AM

I think pitbulls are horrible animals-
Just some things I have read about them doing (absolutly true!):

..They grab a baby out of a mothers arms and rip it pieces in front of her.

..yesterday 2 of them escaped from their owners premises, entered a home and chewed on a lady as she slept in her bed, she barly escaped alive (saw it on cnn just now)

..owner has them fenced in, they see someones puppy through the cracks, dig under the fence, escape, enter neigbors yard, shred the puppy to pieces.

..they have murdered innocent children, women, and men.

it's really fair that all these innocent human beings (and benign loving housepets) have to be terrorized, mutilated so some animal lovers can have these unthninking preditors as pets.

You guys eat pork don't you, that little cute piggy from "Charlotts Web" it gets butchered on an industrial scale, and it never even killed a single baby, isn't that cruel?-look their animals, this is mother earth; thats how she made it, everyday in the wild nature animals murder each other -you know what, it's not murder, their animals! you think those pit bulls feel remorse when they rip a babies head off? yet you feel sorry for them because they get killed in a dog fight..you guys are trying to get into an animals head..has it ever occured to you that these beasts get off on ripping each other to shreds, that they are vicous preditors and thats all they're good for that once hey reach adulthood (they reach adulthood to fight ofcource) they have no sense of time..if you have a housepet that is locked up in a yard (like it's in a jail) is it really more happy than a stray who fends for itself, i mean you don't like being locked up in jail, why would your dog?

Michael Vik is a alright! The govt should ban all pit buls as pets, the only people that should be allowed to own a pit bull are people like people who keep them double fensed in a gogfighting facility like the one MV was building. At least that way no innocent people get murdered.

Originally Posted by Kratos

My sister has an abused bull dog that was trained to fight. It is an incredibly cruel sport, in training, fighting, and the death that usually follows. When she got the dog he was starved down to 25 pounds (should be 60 or 70) to make him more agressive. After they get done starving the dogs the take small puppies, stuff their rectums with meat, and put the dogs in a cage together. The fighting dogs learn to connect food with ripping another dog apart. I have no respect for anyone who thinks dog fights are cool.

When one of Vick's dogs gave up a fight, they were either drowned, electrocuted, hung, or beaten to death against the ground. Now since it looks like Vick might be giving up his fight, by his own standards, shouldn't that mean the same for him?

RA · 08-22-2007, 06:44 AM

rah rah animal torture is good rah rah

Originally Posted by eliteforce

I think pitbulls are horrible animals-
Just some things I have read about them doing (absolutly true!):

..They grab a baby out of a mothers arms and rip it pieces in front of her.

..yesterday 2 of them escaped from their owners premises, entered a home and chewed on a lady as she slept in her bed, she barly escaped alive (saw it on cnn just now)

..owner has them fenced in, they see someones puppy through the cracks, dig under the fence, escape, enter neigbors yard, shred the puppy to pieces.

..they have murdered innocent children, women, and men.

it's really fair that all these innocent human beings (and benign loving housepets) have to be terrorized, mutilated so some animal lovers can have these unthninking preditors as pets.

You guys eat pork don't you, that little cute piggy from "Charlotts Web" it gets butchered on an industrial scale, and it never even killed a single baby, isn't that cruel?-look their animals, this is mother earth; thats how she made it, everyday in the wild nature animals murder each other -you know what, it's not murder, their animals! you think those pit bulls feel remorse when they rip a babies head off? yet you feel sorry for them because they get killed in a dog fight..you guys are trying to get into an animals head..has it ever occured to you that these beasts get off on ripping each other to shreds, that they are vicous preditors and thats all they're good for that once hey reach adulthood (they reach adulthood to fight ofcource) they have no sense of time..if you have a housepet that is locked up in a yard (like it's in a jail) is it really more happy than a stray who fends for itself, i mean you don't like being locked up in jail, why would your dog?

Michael Vik is a alright! The govt should ban all pit buls as pets, the only people that should be allowed to own a pit bull are people like people who keep them double fensed in a gogfighting facility like the one MV was building. At least that way no innocent people get murdered.

**Mogamedogz** · 08-22-2007, 11:14 AM

This could possibly be the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life. Seriously. (And I have read some stupid shit on the internet!)

Originally Posted by eliteforce

I think pitbulls are horrible animals-
Just some things I have read about them doing (absolutly true!):

..They grab a baby out of a mothers arms and rip it pieces in front of her.

..yesterday 2 of them escaped from their owners premises, entered a home and chewed on a lady as she slept in her bed, she barly escaped alive (saw it on cnn just now)

..owner has them fenced in, they see someones puppy through the cracks, dig under the fence, escape, enter neigbors yard, shred the puppy to pieces.

..they have murdered innocent children, women, and men.

it's really fair that all these innocent human beings (and benign loving housepets) have to be terrorized, mutilated so some animal lovers can have these unthninking preditors as pets.

You guys eat pork don't you, that little cute piggy from "Charlotts Web" it gets butchered on an industrial scale, and it never even killed a single baby, isn't that cruel?-look their animals, this is mother earth; thats how she made it, everyday in the wild nature animals murder each other -you know what, it's not murder, their animals! you think those pit bulls feel remorse when they rip a babies head off? yet you feel sorry for them because they get killed in a dog fight..you guys are trying to get into an animals head..has it ever occured to you that these beasts get off on ripping each other to shreds, that they are vicous preditors and thats all they're good for that once hey reach adulthood (they reach adulthood to fight ofcource) they have no sense of time..if you have a housepet that is locked up in a yard (like it's in a jail) is it really more happy than a stray who fends for itself, i mean you don't like being locked up in jail, why would your dog?

Michael Vik is a alright! The govt should ban all pit buls as pets, the only people that should be allowed to own a pit bull are people like people who keep them double fensed in a gogfighting facility like the one MV was building. At least that way no innocent people get murdered.

**kfrost06** · 08-17-2007, 03:44 PM

someone will and it will be a liberal, no doubts about that.

**BgMc31** · 08-18-2007, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by kfrost06

someone will and it will be a liberal, no doubts about that.

Stop trying to make this a liberal v. conservative issue, Kfrost. Especially since PETA is the organization leading this witch hunt. And there is no denying that PETA is one of the most liberal organizations in the world.

As for Logans statement... I don't think anyone was defending him. All anyone was saying was let the punishment fit the crime. Hell, the woman who shot her preacher husband didn't get as much time as Vick will get and she killed a human being and the father of two children. Many murderers don't get the punishment that Vick is facing.

As much as I love my bulldog (whom I rescued from a shelter here in Vegas, and was used for fighting), but to many he's just a dog. And in many parts of this country and the world they are looked upon as just that... dogs!!! As long as people get lenient jail sentences for murder, DUI resulting in death,drug dealing, wife beating, and other heinous crimes then I will continue tcall this a witch hunt. We are all suffer from Snoopy syndrome.

As a matter of fact, recently here in Nevada, a man threw a sack full of new born pups out the window of his truck, drove over them and all he got was 6mos probation and a $1500 fine. I guarantee Mike Vick would get a similar punishment if he weren't Mike Vick.

**dwaynewade** · 08-18-2007, 06:21 AM

Originally Posted by BgMc31

Stop trying to make this a liberal v. conservative issue, Kfrost. Especially since PETA is the organization leading this witch hunt. And there is no denying that PETA is one of the most liberal organizations in the world.

As for Logans statement... I don't think anyone was defending him. All anyone was saying was let the punishment fit the crime. Hell, the woman who shot her preacher husband didn't get as much time as Vick will get and she killed a human being and the father of two children. Many murderers don't get the punishment that Vick is facing.

As much as I love my bulldog (whom I rescued from a shelter here in Vegas, and was used for fighting), but to many he's just a dog. And in many parts of this country and the world they are looked upon as just that... dogs!!! As long as people get lenient jail sentences for murder, DUI resulting in death,drug dealing, wife beating, and other heinous crimes then I will continue tcall this a witch hunt. We are all suffer from Snoopy syndrome.

As a matter of fact, recently here in Nevada, a man threw a sack full of new born pups out the window of his truck, drove over them and all he got was 6mos probation and a $1500 fine. I guarantee Mike Vick would get a similar punishment if he weren't Mike Vick.

WTF????

PPL in Nevada are nuts! no pun intended

**Logan13** · 08-18-2007, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by dwaynewade

WTF????

PPL in Nevada are nuts! no pun intended

The difference is that Vick caught a Federal indictment, not a state one like in Bg's example. But Bg will probably say that this has nothing to do with it. The difference in his mind is that the guy in Nevada was probably white, and Vick is black........

**BgMc31** · 08-18-2007, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by Logan13

The difference is that Vick caught a Federal indictment, not a state one like in Bg's example. But Bg will probably say that this has nothing to do with it. The difference in his mind is that the guy in Nevada was probably white, and Vick is black........

Actually the guy in Nevada was black Logan. And how do you know what goes on in my mind? Your antics are getting old and you're beginning to sound desperate. Again you're a racist bigot, everyone knows it, so stop trying to paint others with your miscolored brush!

You're in a class all by yourself so enjoy the loneliness.

As for you comments about a Federal indictment, the federal indictment that carries the most weight is the interstate commerce (gambling) that's alleged, not necessarily the dog fighting. And did you forget that the state of Virginia is also preparing charges that carry 3-5yrs for the dog fighting itself.

**Mogamedogz** · 08-17-2007, 05:27 PM

Hopefully (if he pleas), he will be punished accordingly. No more lenient (or harshly) than what the law calls for.

**Flagg** · 08-17-2007, 05:36 PM

Well I just hope Vick doesn't get the Hilton treatment in the slammer, though his crime is abhorant compared to her.

**** someone should toss that prick into a pit full of tigers.

**jerseyboy** · 08-18-2007, 06:08 PM

I still want to see Vick put in the ring with Quinton Jackson. Let Jackson pound on this coward for a few minutes so he can see first hand what it feels like. I would take great pleasure in watching this scumbag cry for mercy as he's bleeding on the ground.

**dwaynewade** · 08-18-2007, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by jerseyboy

I still want to see Vick put in the ring with Quinton Jackson. Let Jackson pound on this coward for a few minutes so he can see first hand what it feels like. I would take great pleasure in watching this scumbag cry for mercy as he's bleeding on the ground.

then we'll wet him and then...

**BgMc31** · 08-18-2007, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by jerseyboy

I still want to see Vick put in the ring with Quinton Jackson. Let Jackson pound on this coward for a few minutes so he can see first hand what it feels like. I would take great pleasure in watching this scumbag cry for mercy as he's bleeding on the ground.

Why is he a coward? Yeah he's a scumbag for fighting dogs, but he never backed down from anyone or anybody. And anyone who puts his body on the line and plays football the way he does, ain't no coward. Maybe you should try it sometime...

**jerseyboy** · 08-18-2007, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by BgMc31

Why is he a coward? Yeah he's a scumbag for fighting dogs, but he never backed down from anyone or anybody. And anyone who puts his body on the line and plays football the way he does, ain't no coward. Maybe you should try it sometime...

He's a ****ing coward because he doesn't step in the ring himself and do his own fighting. He lets some poor dog do it so he can feel like a tough guy. Yeah football is a rough sport but it is nothing like submission fighting. Not only am I too old but I have no athletic talent or I would be glad to play football. What's there to be afraid of? You get hit and maybe break some bones. Big deal. He's getting paid millions to risk injury. What did his dogs get? A bowl of food if they one. A good bludgeoning or a hanging if they lose. He's a ****ing coward because he abuses defenseless dogs for his own sick amusement.

**seattleironpumper** · 02-13-2008, 12:13 AM

to stand back as a dog is done that way , vicks ***** ass has pads and he can run like hell we have all seen that, i never seen vick take a john elway hit, no punt intended

Originally Posted by BgMc31

Why is he a coward? Yeah he's a scumbag for fighting dogs, but he never backed down from anyone or anybody. And anyone who puts his body on the line and plays football the way he does, ain't no coward. Maybe you should try it sometime...

**BgMc31** · 08-18-2007, 07:20 PM

I played professional footballl so I believe you are over simplifying the sport with probably the best pure athletes on the planet. I don't want to try to turn this into a submission fighting vs football debate, but these guys get paid millions for a reason. And if football wasn't so tough, then why do more guys die and sustain many more delibitating injuries playing football than submission fighting, boxing, or MMA (total numbers and percentage wise). Tell you what try getting into a car accident 40-60 times a day for 20+ years and see how tough it is.

The man's no coward. Piece of shit... yeah, but coward... no. I've brought this up before, since Roy Jones fights and so does his chickens, I guess he's no coward, but a piece of shit all the same...

**Mogamedogz** · 08-18-2007, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by BgMc31

I played professional footballl so I believe you are over simplifying the sport with probably the best pure athletes on the planet. I don't want to try to turn this into a submission fighting vs football debate, but these guys get paid millions for a reason. And if football wasn't so tough, then why do more guys die and sustain many more delibitating injuries playing football than submission fighting, boxing, or MMA (total numbers and percentage wise). Tell you what try getting into a car accident 40-60 times a day for 20+ years and see how tough it is.

The man's no coward. Piece of shit... yeah, but coward... no. I've brought this up before, since Roy Jones fights and so does his chickens, I guess he's no coward, but a piece of shit all the same...

I agree with just about everything you say in this thread. You are spot on IMO.

Shit... I admire fighting dogs. (Not to be confused with condoning Dog Fighting). I think they are very unique and special animals. My handle (and OG fantasy football team name) derives from Fighting dogs. Mo= More, Game=Gamebred, Dogz. My wife and I run a small rescue for Pit Bulls, especially those who were used for fighting. They make WONDERFUL pets actually! Believe it or not, TRUE fighting dogs are NOT HUMAN AGGRESSIVE!! Most people dont know this, because they listen to all the BS they hear from the media.

It's not like these guys were forcing the dogs to fight... they ALLOWED them to fight. After all, they are "Fighting" dogs. Just like Greyhounds are bred to run, Pit Bulldogs are bred to "fight". That doesnt make it MORALLY ok to enter them into Pit matches... but it is no more wrong than hunting defenseless animals for sport IMO.

Personally, I find what they did disgusting. But I think people are overreacting to this thing.... BIG TIME. Fighting a dog and being a coward have absolutely nothing to do with one another.

Vick should be punished for breaking the law (if he pleads or is found guilty), but it shouldnt be anymore excessive than what the usual sentence is. At the end of the day... dogs are NOT HUMANS. I think our culture is wayyyy too sensitive about this kind of thing. JMO.

**jerseyboy** · 08-19-2007, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mogamedogz

At the end of the day... dogs are NOT HUMANS. I think our culture is wayyyy too sensitive about this kind of thing. JMO.

No actually in many ways they're better. They aren't malicious. They can't be fake, put up a front, lie or pretend they're something they aren't. Most people will screw you any chance they get. Dogs are more loyal and their love is unconditional. To most dogs and Pits especially, pleasing there owner and being close to him is there main concern. They are very simple creatures that rely on us for care and protection. When I see people abusing and neglecting them it makes me furious. Call me overly sensitive. Dogs bring me more joy than most people have.
As for my statement that Vick is a coward. I stand by it. It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. As a matter of fact I find it trivial to even argue the point. It's not even relevant to the issue that I find dog fighting cowardly. The man won't do any kind of real fighting himself but relies on his dogs to try and prove his manliness for him. His ability to play professional football does not change anything. My buddy plays arena football. I respect him for it, I think it's very cool and takes alot of talent. But when he told me he was going to play my first thought wasn't how brave he was. It's a sport. It's not like he's going off to war. I have more than a few friends that have served in Iraq and at least one who is going back. To me, they are the brave ones.

**Big** · 08-19-2007, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by jerseyboy

No actually in many ways they're better. They aren't malicious. They can't be fake, put up a front, lie or pretend they're something they aren't. Most people will screw you any chance they get. Dogs are more loyal and their love is unconditional. To most dogs and Pits especially, pleasing there owner and being close to him is there main concern. They are very simple creatures that rely on us for care and protection. When I see people abusing and neglecting them it makes me furious. Call me overly sensitive. Dogs bring me more joy than most people have.
As for my statement that Vick is a coward. I stand by it. It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. As a matter of fact I find it trivial to even argue the point. It's not even relevant to the issue that I find dog fighting cowardly. The man won't do any kind of real fighting himself but relies on his dogs to try and prove his manliness for him. His ability to play professional football does not change anything. My buddy plays arena football. I respect him for it, I think it's very cool and takes alot of talent. But when he told me he was going to play my first thought wasn't how brave he was. It's a sport. It's not like he's going off to war. I have more than a few friends that have served in Iraq and at least one who is going back. To me, they are the brave ones.

very well stated

**dwaynewade** · 08-19-2007, 11:10 AM

wow... ditto

**Logan13** · 08-19-2007, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by ImaGetBigger

very well stated

+1.........

**Mogamedogz** · 08-20-2007, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by jerseyboy

No actually in many ways they're better.

...IMO, this line of thinking is a bigger problem than dog fighting.

NO. They are NOT BETTER. They are lesser creatures than "man". We are ABOVE them on the food chain. We OWN them... we control what/when/if they eat. We decide when they should breed, and when we should put them to death. As much as we love them, and accept selected ones as members of our family.... In REALITY, they are still JUST dogs.

While all of the touchy feely stuff you said is true (about their unconditional love and loyalty), it still does not make their lives EQUAL to the live of a human being. ANY human being.

My wife and I run a small Pit Bull rescue league (we have for the last eight years). I would bet anything I own, that we have sacrificed more of our time, energy, and MONEY for the good of the breed, than any of the other people in this thread COMBINED. I have spent my entire life (and will spend the rest of my life) fighting for the well being of these dogs. That said; I would sacrifice the lives of 1000 dogs if I knew it would save the life of ONE human being.

That’s not to say I condone dog fighting, or condone inhumane treatment of animals, just that I consider human life more valuable. (I’m sure being human, probably has something to do with that!

)

Now don’t get me wrong... I LOVE MY DOGS. But all the theoretical and spiritual mumbo-jumbo really isn’t relevant to this discussion IMO.

As far as you people who think these dogs were "Forced" to fight... step back and think really hard about that.

If you race dogs as a hobby, and $$ is not an option, are you going to buy your brood stock from a family of dogs who are known for producing sub-par racing dogs?? No. You are going to buy top of the line quality dogs, from a winning bloodline. You will not have to TRAIN the dogs to chase a rabbit. They will know to do it instinctually.

Same goes for "top of the line quality" fighting dogs. They do not have to be TAUGHT to fight. They are born with the instinct to do it. (This shouldn’t be confused with HUMAN AGRESSION which most TRUE fighting dogs are NOT born with.) If you have ever seen a litter of fighting dog puppies, you would notice that from the time they can walk and play, they are ALREADY going at it!! I have seen litters of puppies who would kill one another by 9 weeks old. Literally.

Listen guys... I LOVE my dogs (probably more than most). The closest friend I ever knew in my life was a dog. If anyone were to hurt my dogs (without reason), I would most likely try to hurt them in return.

HOWEVER, I just can not equate a dog’s life, to that of a human being. It just seems silly to me. Maybe im just not wired to be as sensitive as others... who knows!?

But if you all REALLY want to help out… donate $$ to “NO KILL” shelters; particularly those which rescue APBT’s (American Pit Bull Terriers), and not PETA or HSUS. If you can’t find any, email me, and I will send you a list of them.

Just PLEASE... stop being "Sheeple". Nothing good ever comes from a Mob Mentality. Bashing Vick does NOTHING to help the cause which you all seem to be so passionate about. Stop whining and dreaming up rediculously harsh punishments, and SUPPORT the folks who have the best interest of these dogs in mind. I assure you, PETA and HSUS DO NOT. They KILL more (adoptable) Pit Bulls every year (which are unfairly deemed "Vicious") than ANYONE.

RA · 08-20-2007, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by Mogamedogz

...IMO, this line of thinking is a bigger problem than dog fighting.

NO. They are NOT BETTER. They are lesser creatures than "man". We are ABOVE them on the food chain. We OWN them... we control what/when/if they eat. We decide when they should breed, and when we should put them to death. As much as we love them, and accept selected ones as members of our family.... In REALITY, they are still JUST dogs.

While all of the touchy feely stuff you said is true (about their unconditional love and loyalty), it still does not make their lives EQUAL to the live of a human being. ANY human being.

My wife and I run a small Pit Bull rescue league (we have for the last eight years). I would bet anything I own, that we have sacrificed more of our time, energy, and MONEY for the good of the breed, than any of the other people in this thread COMBINED. I have spent my entire life (and will spend the rest of my life) fighting for the well being of these dogs. That said; I would sacrifice the lives of 1000 dogs if I knew it would save the life of ONE human being.

That’s not to say I condone dog fighting, or condone inhumane treatment of animals, just that I consider human life more valuable. (I’m sure being human, probably has something to do with that!

)

Now don’t get me wrong... I LOVE MY DOGS. But all the theoretical and spiritual mumbo-jumbo really isn’t relevant to this discussion IMO.

As far as you people who think these dogs were "Forced" to fight... step back and think really hard about that.

If you race dogs as a hobby, and $$ is not an option, are you going to buy your brood stock from a family of dogs who are known for producing sub-par racing dogs?? No. You are going to buy top of the line quality dogs, from a winning bloodline. You will not have to TRAIN the dogs to chase a rabbit. They will know to do it instinctually.

Same goes for "top of the line quality" fighting dogs. They do not have to be TAUGHT to fight. They are born with the instinct to do it. (This shouldn’t be confused with HUMAN AGRESSION which most TRUE fighting dogs are NOT born with.) If you have ever seen a litter of fighting dog puppies, you would notice that from the time they can walk and play, they are ALREADY going at it!! I have seen litters of puppies who would kill one another by 9 weeks old. Literally.

Listen guys... I LOVE my dogs (probably more than most). The closest friend I ever knew in my life was a dog. If anyone were to hurt my dogs (without reason), I would most likely try to hurt them in return.

HOWEVER, I just can not equate a dog’s life, to that of a human being. It just seems silly to me. Maybe im just not wired to be as sensitive as others... who knows!?

But if you all REALLY want to help out… donate $$ to “NO KILL” shelters; particularly those which rescue APBT’s (American Pit Bull Terriers), and not PETA or HSUS. If you can’t find any, email me, and I will send you a list of them.

Just PLEASE... stop being "Sheeple". Nothing good ever comes from a Mob Mentality. Bashing Vick does NOTHING to help the cause which you all seem to be so passionate about. Stop whining and dreaming up rediculously harsh punishments, and SUPPORT the folks who have the best interest of these dogs in mind. I assure you, PETA and HSUS DO NOT. They KILL more (adoptable) Pit Bulls every year (which are unfairly deemed "Vicious") than ANYONE.

Done with the soapbox??

Im going to make up signs. Vick is a dick

**dwaynewade** · 08-20-2007, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by Mogamedogz

...IMO, this line of thinking is a bigger problem than dog fighting.

NO. They are NOT BETTER. They are lesser creatures than "man". We are ABOVE them on the food chain. We OWN them... we control what/when/if they eat. We decide when they should breed, and when we should put them to death. As much as we love them, and accept selected ones as members of our family.... In REALITY, they are still JUST dogs.

While all of the touchy feely stuff you said is true (about their unconditional love and loyalty), it still does not make their lives EQUAL to the live of a human being. ANY human being.

My wife and I run a small Pit Bull rescue league (we have for the last eight years). I would bet anything I own, that we have sacrificed more of our time, energy, and MONEY for the good of the breed, than any of the other people in this thread COMBINED. I have spent my entire life (and will spend the rest of my life) fighting for the well being of these dogs. That said; I would sacrifice the lives of 1000 dogs if I knew it would save the life of ONE human being.

That’s not to say I condone dog fighting, or condone inhumane treatment of animals, just that I consider human life more valuable. (I’m sure being human, probably has something to do with that!

)

Now don’t get me wrong... I LOVE MY DOGS. But all the theoretical and spiritual mumbo-jumbo really isn’t relevant to this discussion IMO.

As far as you people who think these dogs were "Forced" to fight... step back and think really hard about that.

If you race dogs as a hobby, and $$ is not an option, are you going to buy your brood stock from a family of dogs who are known for producing sub-par racing dogs?? No. You are going to buy top of the line quality dogs, from a winning bloodline. You will not have to TRAIN the dogs to chase a rabbit. They will know to do it instinctually.

Same goes for "top of the line quality" fighting dogs. They do not have to be TAUGHT to fight. They are born with the instinct to do it. (This shouldn’t be confused with HUMAN AGRESSION which most TRUE fighting dogs are NOT born with.) If you have ever seen a litter of fighting dog puppies, you would notice that from the time they can walk and play, they are ALREADY going at it!! I have seen litters of puppies who would kill one another by 9 weeks old. Literally.

Listen guys... I LOVE my dogs (probably more than most). The closest friend I ever knew in my life was a dog. If anyone were to hurt my dogs (without reason), I would most likely try to hurt them in return.

HOWEVER, I just can not equate a dog’s life, to that of a human being. It just seems silly to me. Maybe im just not wired to be as sensitive as others... who knows!?

But if you all REALLY want to help out… donate $$ to “NO KILL” shelters; particularly those which rescue APBT’s (American Pit Bull Terriers), and not PETA or HSUS. If you can’t find any, email me, and I will send you a list of them.

Just PLEASE... stop being "Sheeple". Nothing good ever comes from a Mob Mentality. Bashing Vick does NOTHING to help the cause which you all seem to be so passionate about. Stop whining and dreaming up rediculously harsh punishments, and SUPPORT the folks who have the best interest of these dogs in mind. I assure you, PETA and HSUS DO NOT. They KILL more (adoptable) Pit Bulls every year (which are unfairly deemed "Vicious") than ANYONE.

hmm... sounds ironic coming from you and your experience with dogs, it is a somewhat an objective point of view, but there are many ppl that see it differently. I think compassion plays a role. And i see all animals as my equal. Whether we are atop of the food chain or not. I do however respect your opinion and admire the work you do to help those poor dogs.

**seattleironpumper** · 02-13-2008, 12:32 AM

I have husky pups all they do is fight but,doesnt mean they have it in there bood to be fighting dogs, i must say it is the owner of the dog so vick the prick gets what he deserves and if u think its so bad to bash vick mabe u should have been there when they had voltage put to them, and when they were beat to death, mabe your view would change I would hate to be a dog and have u as an owner..... Humaine way of doing things u see!!!!

Originally Posted by Mogamedogz

...IMO, this line of thinking is a bigger problem than dog fighting.

NO. They are NOT BETTER. They are lesser creatures than "man". We are ABOVE them on the food chain. We OWN them... we control what/when/if they eat. We decide when they should breed, and when we should put them to death. As much as we love them, and accept selected ones as members of our family.... In REALITY, they are still JUST dogs.

While all of the touchy feely stuff you said is true (about their unconditional love and loyalty), it still does not make their lives EQUAL to the live of a human being. ANY human being.

My wife and I run a small Pit Bull rescue league (we have for the last eight years). I would bet anything I own, that we have sacrificed more of our time, energy, and MONEY for the good of the breed, than any of the other people in this thread COMBINED. I have spent my entire life (and will spend the rest of my life) fighting for the well being of these dogs. That said; I would sacrifice the lives of 1000 dogs if I knew it would save the life of ONE human being.

That’s not to say I condone dog fighting, or condone inhumane treatment of animals, just that I consider human life more valuable. (I’m sure being human, probably has something to do with that!

)

Now don’t get me wrong... I LOVE MY DOGS. But all the theoretical and spiritual mumbo-jumbo really isn’t relevant to this discussion IMO.

As far as you people who think these dogs were "Forced" to fight... step back and think really hard about that.

If you race dogs as a hobby, and $$ is not an option, are you going to buy your brood stock from a family of dogs who are known for producing sub-par racing dogs?? No. You are going to buy top of the line quality dogs, from a winning bloodline. You will not have to TRAIN the dogs to chase a rabbit. They will know to do it instinctually.

Same goes for "top of the line quality" fighting dogs. They do not have to be TAUGHT to fight. They are born with the instinct to do it. (This shouldn’t be confused with HUMAN AGRESSION which most TRUE fighting dogs are NOT born with.) If you have ever seen a litter of fighting dog puppies, you would notice that from the time they can walk and play, they are ALREADY going at it!! I have seen litters of puppies who would kill one another by 9 weeks old. Literally.

Listen guys... I LOVE my dogs (probably more than most). The closest friend I ever knew in my life was a dog. If anyone were to hurt my dogs (without reason), I would most likely try to hurt them in return.

HOWEVER, I just can not equate a dog’s life, to that of a human being. It just seems silly to me. Maybe im just not wired to be as sensitive as others... who knows!?

But if you all REALLY want to help out… donate $$ to “NO KILL” shelters; particularly those which rescue APBT’s (American Pit Bull Terriers), and not PETA or HSUS. If you can’t find any, email me, and I will send you a list of them.

Just PLEASE... stop being "Sheeple". Nothing good ever comes from a Mob Mentality. Bashing Vick does NOTHING to help the cause which you all seem to be so passionate about. Stop whining and dreaming up rediculously harsh punishments, and SUPPORT the folks who have the best interest of these dogs in mind. I assure you, PETA and HSUS DO NOT. They KILL more (adoptable) Pit Bulls every year (which are unfairly deemed "Vicious") than ANYONE.

**ftony** · 08-20-2007, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by BgMc31

I played professional footballl so I believe you are over simplifying the sport with probably the best pure athletes on the planet. I don't want to try to turn this into a submission fighting vs football debate, but these guys get paid millions for a reason. And if football wasn't so tough, then why do more guys die and sustain many more delibitating injuries playing football than submission fighting, boxing, or MMA (total numbers and percentage wise). Tell you what try getting into a car accident 40-60 times a day for 20+ years and see how tough it is.

The man's no coward. Piece of shit... yeah, but coward... no. I've brought this up before, since Roy Jones fights and so does his chickens, I guess he's no coward, but a piece of shit all the same...

Really not a coward??Let me ask this, what type of person does it take to kill a defenseless Vulnerable animal.When I say defenseless and Vulnerable,Its because the dog looks to his owner for guidance and direction as a pack leader..Now I ask you again what type of person would do something like that.No worries, I will tell you. A coward piece of shit.Do you think he would come in my yard not knowing my APBT and try and hang him,hahaha,LOL....I bet his entire salary he would not so much step foot in my yard, ya even with all his nfl car crashing experiences.I must add if he did try he would be ripped to shit.Thats why he's a coward piece of shit, take advantage of those or things that are Vulnerable step off when things are a threat to you..That's mike vick..He sucks anyway he couldn't hit the side of a barn, coward piece of shit...

**Logan13** · 08-20-2007, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by BgMc31
I played professional footballl so I believe you are over simplifying the sport with probably the best pure athletes on the planet. I don't want to try to turn this into a submission fighting vs football debate, but these guys get paid millions for a reason. And if football wasn't so tough, then why do more guys die and sustain many more delibitating injuries playing football than submission fighting, boxing, or MMA (total numbers and percentage wise). Tell you what try getting into a car accident 40-60 times a day for 20+ years and see how tough it is.

Please tell me that you are not trying to equate pay with how tough a job is. What 15-18 year old kid has not played football? Ever watch Married with Children Bg?

**jon77** · 08-20-2007, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by ftony

Really not a coward??Let me ask this, what type of person does it take to kill a defenseless Vulnerable animal.When I say defenseless and Vulnerable,Its because the dog looks to his owner for guidance and direction as a pack leader..Now I ask you again what type of person would do something like that.No worries, I will tell you. A coward piece of shit.Do you think he would come in my yard not knowing my APBT and try and hang him,hahaha,LOL....I bet his entire salary he would not so much step foot in my yard, ya even with all his nfl car crashing experiences.I must add if he did try he would be ripped to shit.Thats why he's a coward piece of shit, take advantage of those or things that are Vulnerable step off when things are a threat to you..That's mike vick..He sucks anyway he couldn't hit the side of a barn, coward piece of shit...

**jerseyboy** · 08-18-2007, 07:56 PM

Well one things for sure. Vick won't be playing football again any time soon.

**brewerpi** · 08-19-2007, 07:38 AM

In 1998 Leonard Little of the NFL (Rams) killed a 47 year old woman while driving drunk-he did 9 months in jail and was suspended for 8 games. He has been caught driving drunk again but his lawyer convinced a jury that the arresting officer did not properly administer the 3 field sobriety tests, that Little failed.
By that standard, sending Vick to prison for killing dogs is silly. Having said that I hope he gets at least 18 months. When he has served his time if some team wants to hire him I say fine-tell PETA to go back to protesting Oscar Meyer...
I live across the street from four pitbulls and they are docile, playful animals, therefore I don't buy in to the notion that these animals are fighters and Vick and his scumbag crew were "allowing" them to fight.
I think you have to do a lot of cruel and unusual crap to those dogs to get them that way, and that the people involved enjoyed it and enjoy killing the animals when they don't perform.