Illegal immigration

[SexySweetheart]

----

[FONZY007]

yup its actualy a fed law for all states to have a 5year cap...but..if there is Domsetic violance or a serious medical prob that is deamed to sever to work than the 5years is extended. Foostamps and healthy kids/medicaid dont fall under the cash assistance 5 year cap, food stamps can be collected from birth till death if the qualifications are met.

Dang...

[gixxerboy1]

our immigration policies her suck. I seen it with my wife. she was doing everything legally and was denied to be abel to stay and and had a deportation date. Also it took 5 years to get a work authorization card. Even though she had a social security card here. So most jobs wouldnt hire her with out that card.

[Sgt. Hartman]

No one has mentioned anything about the construction industry, specifically the housing market. Without the illegal mexicans performing these jobs that no one else wants to do, new home prices would sky rocket to the point where no one could afford new homes, the opposite of what the market needs in order to recover. The rate of production of new homes would slow to a snail's pace as well. In the residential construction industry, the illegal immigrants did not steal jobs from the "hard working" legal Americans, they merely fulfilled a need that was not being met by the self entitled citizens of our country. Most legal Americans of all colors feel that they are above earning $12 an hour hanging sheetrock or installing roofing, and instead of working 60 hours a week like the illegals, a 20 or 30 hour work week would be the norm as they can't work Mondays because they're still fvcked up from the weekend and the weekend starts Thursday after work so Fridays are a wash as well. The prices of everything from lawn maintenance to pool care and restaurant food would sky rocket without them. Not to mention the implications on food prices from no one willing to work the agricultural jobs.

I'm not supporting illegal immigrants, just pointing out some problems that would arise if they were all gone. IMO they should put the national guard to defend and seal the border to stop anymore from coming over. The ones over her already should not be given amnesty or access to any social programs whatsoever until they can prove that they have paid income taxes for a period of say five years. This would require a drastic overhaul of many social programs but really it's necessary regardless. The idea of deporting them all is ridiculous both from an economic and logistic standpoint. The key IMO is to keep more from coming over and develop a method of making sure that they PAY THEIR TAXES.

[Lemonada8]

^^ I think that it would actually help the economy, if building a house becomes more expensive, it would require that current unoccupied houses to be purchased.
personal construction follows the economy.. but business construction should hopefully still be decent enough to provide some jobs to legal citizens.

I agree with the comment that americans have lost their work ethic, and need a priority change. But that is a societal change which is something ive always said that is needed before we get out of this mess. esp with the attitude of 'the gov should provide for me'... etc..

[Far from massive]

Wow how wrong you are, keep listening to wtop (hate radio) and sporting your George Bush bumper sticker.

You are one of the suckers that the haves truly love, completely blind to the real cost of hiring illegals only seeing the fact that they will hang sheetrock for 12 hr. 60 hrs a week to pay rent. Never mind the fact that if you work hanging sheetrock 60hrs a wk chances are you will be unable to work once you hit 45-50 or so. Never mind the fact that legal Americans used to get 12 hr to hang rock back in the 1980s. Never mind the fact that the cost of living vs minimum wage has never been lower since the inception of the minium wage. Never mind the fact that almost every small lawncare company (less than 20 employees) that works legally has been forced out of business by those who operate illegally. And believe me the trend in construction of those who used to laugh all the way to the bank counting the money they made exploiting Mexicans who are now going out of business is far from over, the landscaping company is just the beginning it will soon work its way through all other trades with plumbing and electric last to go due to the legal hurdles.

The simple truth is its wrong to exploit anyone, illegal or US born and the upper class who are totally devoid of morals is now exploiting the illegal and the Americans who do physical labor far more than ever in recent history. Those who now own construction companies and are acting as their (big businesses) pawns in the war. Meantime you George Bush bumper sticker, WTOP radio listening, Satan was a democrat flag flying, pawns don't even know you are being used....but that's ok as long as you are able to ride the train before it derails.

Ohh well looks like this generation of semieducated pseudointellectual principless scum will be the end of this country, it just looks like the shit will hit the fan sooner than anyone expected.

By the way unless you have been buying gold for the past 5 years you are not in the club that holds the tickets.


Ohh and please don't get the post twisted, I have absolutely nothing against the immigrants at all I agree with Sarge they are some of the hardest working people I have ever known and many of them have good ethics and principles. Unfortunately one of those ethics is to support familia before any other and this is why they will seek out every program available and another one of those principles is to do as the church teaches so they see nothing wrong with having 8 kids even though they can not support 1 on their own earnings. Of the 3 spanish americans I work with on my mainenance crew one is 22 and has 3 kids and is already divorced and his exwife is now pregnant. The other is on his 2nd wife, his last 2 wifes he went back to Salvador to marry the 1st was 14 when he was 22 the last was 18 and he was 38 when he married her. Both of them are now naturalized citizens who are elegible for every benefit we have to offer for them or their kids 6 total between them so far.

[Lemonada8]

Where is that post directed? ^^

[zaggahamma]

Where is that post directed? ^^

i think he was directing at sg. hartman as he questioned the cost of hiring illegals in the 2nd sentence..

and i too will ask sg. hartman a question that i previously asked in the thread...when/where does it end? (when the illegal worker will work for food?)

[Sgt. Hartman]

I just spent 30 minutes typing a post in response to FFM but deleted it. I don't come here to debate politics or social issues and to be honest the opinions of a bunch of meat head steroid users on these issues aren't important to me.

I will ask you this FFM - who the **** are you and what are your experiences and qualifications to speak like that (assuming it was directed to me) and to have all this figured out to such an exact science?

[Sgt. Hartman]

^^ I think that it would actually help the economy, if building a house becomes more expensive, it would require that current unoccupied houses to be purchased.
personal construction follows the economy.. but business construction should hopefully still be decent enough to provide some jobs to legal citizens.

I agree with the comment that americans have lost their work ethic, and need a priority change. But that is a societal change which is something ive always said that is needed before we get out of this mess. esp with the attitude of 'the gov should provide for me'... etc..

I agree with you but it's not that simple. Sure, ideally we would stop all new construction to allow us to churn through the current inventory of foreclosures and resales. Then the appraisals would eventually creep their way back up and new construction could start to make a recovery. The problem is that 5% of the working population is directly employed through residential construction and ever how many more indirectly by producing or servicing the products that go into homes. Add all those people to the unemployed and then we've got even worse problems.

[Lemonada8]

I dont think that it would get that drastic of a change from what is going on now. There may be some crunching, but the thing is that i dont get... with all this 'unemployment' (which is apparently the gov's, rich, wealthy peoples fault... ) how come there are still a pretty full help wanted section? Yes it may not be the best job or the one you want, but its a job. I truely think the big issue is the spending of money in welfare and other social programs. They reduce incentive to actually go work, when those social programs pay better than actually having a job, its no wonder that people would rather stay on welfare, then theres the whole 'disability' crowd which I would bet in 90% they are all way over-exaggerated to what they can/want to do.
But thats going into a whole other topic, but they are all inter-related.
back on topic:
The end line (IMO) is that they are termed 'Illegal' for a reason, and when we bend the rules to much noone really respects them. They dont pay into the social programs that 'legal' workers do that have to support those who choose which end up draining money out of the country. There is a legal way to become a citizen (prolly needs to be re-vamped..) which all other 'legal' immigrants have to do, so they get the appropriate rights and benefits offered by our great country. When we bend the rules, and provide those same things to 'illegal' immigrants it takes all incentive to become legal.

[zaggahamma]

I dont think that it would get that drastic of a change from what is going on now. There may be some crunching, but the thing is that i dont get... with all this 'unemployment' (which is apparently the gov's, rich, wealthy peoples fault... ) how come there are still a pretty full help wanted section? Yes it may not be the best job or the one you want, but its a job. I truely think the big issue is the spending of money in welfare and other social programs. They reduce incentive to actually go work, when those social programs pay better than actually having a job, its no wonder that people would rather stay on welfare, then theres the whole 'disability' crowd which I would bet in 90% they are all way over-exaggerated to what they can/want to do.
But thats going into a whole other topic, but they are all inter-related.
back on topic:
The end line (IMO) is that they are termed 'Illegal' for a reason, and when we bend the rules to much noone really respects them. They dont pay into the social programs that 'legal' workers do that have to support those who choose which end up draining money out of the country. There is a legal way to become a citizen (prolly needs to be re-vamped..) which all other 'legal' immigrants have to do, so they get the appropriate rights and benefits offered by our great country. When we bend the rules, and provide those same things to 'illegal' immigrants it takes all incentive to become legal.

in orlando

the help wanted pages went from like a dozen pages to about 1 or a half of one for the last several years...i think its state to state

[Armykid93]

Ok so basically what needs to happen is this. Kick the illegals out. Now noones willing to work the fields but farmers still need employees or work wont get done so they will be forced to raise their wages to attract legal us citizens. This would in turn bolster our economy because citizens would spend money.

[Armykid93]

AAnd the upper class isn't devoid of morals lol that just hippie garble. I loved Bush to btw.

[Armykid93]

And there's still a full help wanted secTIon because people are lazy b1tches. There ARE TONS OF JOBS AVAILABLE. I found mine after 2 weeks of looking. Sorry not post whoring I'm just on my kindle and cant figure out how to use it properly lol

[zaggahamma]

And there's still a full help wanted secTIon because people are lazy b1tches. There ARE TONS OF JOBS AVAILABLE. I found mine after 2 weeks of looking. Sorry not post whoring I'm just on my kindle and cant figure out how to use it properly lol

are u calling me a liar?

[zaggahamma]

huh?

[zaggahamma]

not post whoring either

[Coolhand5599]

It will never change because the democrats are afraid to loose the votes. We all have to buy the votes of people who have no right to vote.

[Armykid93]

Bingo lol coolhand wins the grand pride. And no jpkman your not a liar, my job is sh1tty but I'm willing to do it. That's why it was easy to find

[zaggahamma]

Bingo lol coolhand wins the grand pride. And no jpkman your not a liar, my job is sh1tty but I'm willing to do it. That's why it was easy to find

lol
i hear ya bro
i'm just telling you what i said about the classifieds here is true

[Times Roman]

I am not a racist but I do hate illegal immigrants. They leech our country and make it so we have to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to translate everything into spanish.
What does everybody think about this topic?

then what "ist" would you call it?

Fascist?
Zenophobic?

You've labeled a certain class of people, prejudged them, and then use that generalization to single people out.

The reality is most illegals are mexican. but when we see mexicans, we often times think "illegal" and act accordingly.

Truth is there are many many mexicans here that are citizens, but they unfortunately get harrassed over these and similar issues.

Mate, when you boil it down, it all comes down to hate and ignorance.

The sober reality is, if you were in their shoes over in mexico, no job, no money, extremely difficult to provide for your family, I guarantee you would consider crossing the boarder in search of a better way of life. I know I damn sure as hell would serioiusly consider coming over here. Family comes first, before anything else. YOU WILL DO WHAT YOU MUST DO TO PROTECT YOUR FAMILY!!

[zaggahamma]

illegalimmigranthaterIST

legal immigrant lover

[Times Roman]

illegalimmigranthaterIST

legal immigrant lover

whether or not it is legal is really a political discussion. every few years, amnisty is granted for those already here. So it becomes a moot point. if the politicians have any balls, they would redevelop a worker visa program like they did almost a hundred years ago (brassero [sp?]). but they don't have any balls, so they stick to the current failed method of making it illegal and then giving amnesty every ten years or so.

the reality is, you cannot legislate people's behavior. it is crazy to think otherwise. Just say no to drugs is a failure. Alchohol prohibition was a crazy failure. and creating laws making immigration illegal, when those that break those laws are desperate to feed their families is a failure too.

So what are you really upset about? someone breaking a law? or mexicans coming over here?

if you are upset about breaking laws, then i laugh, since most those here on the board that take aas are breaking the law. most that own cars drive too fast and therefore break the law. most that file taxes at somepoint in thier lives have cheated on thier returns, and that is breaking the law. the truth is, we ALL have broken the law at some point. So i don't get how you could be upset if an immigrant breaks the law in search of a better life for him and his family. This is human nature, and the instinct for survival. To deny someone as basic an instinct as this, which is as basic as the need for food and water, to me, doesn't make any sense.

Or are you upset because it is mexicans that are coming over here?

Answer me this one thing, and then i'll let it go.

What would you do if you had no options, no money, no job, and were struggling to feed your family? Would you cross the boarder in search of a better life?

[zaggahamma]

i think all nationalities are great but can we have open/zero borders, seriously? is that what you think? how many countries have that?

[Times Roman]

pretty much all of em in the EU.

I've been all over the world and seen a lot of shit, so I am probably more understanding than most.

But you didn't answer the question. Answer the question, and honestly, and i will say no more.

What would you do if you had no options, no money, no job, and were struggling to feed your family? Would you cross the boarder in search of a better life?

[zaggahamma]

pretty much all of em in the EU.

I've been all over the world and seen a lot of shit, so I am probably more understanding than most.

But you didn't answer the question. Answer the question, and honestly, and i will say no more.

What would you do if you had no options, no money, no job, and were struggling to feed your family? Would you cross the boarder in search of a better life?

if i wasnt risking my/my family's life,health, and freedom like in this instance yes of course

hows that working out in EU

[Times Roman]

And that’s my point. Pretty hard to crucify someone if all they are doing is what you would do in the same situation.

Thanks for chatting!
---Roman

[Coolhand5599]

pretty much all of em in the EU.

I've been all over the world and seen a lot of shit, so I am probably more understanding than most.

But you didn't answer the question. Answer the question, and honestly, and i will say no more.

What would you do if you had no options, no money, no job, and were struggling to feed your family? Would you cross the boarder in search of a better life?

Yes, But I would honor and respect the laws, people and language of where I was going. I would try to blend in as if I were one of them.

[Times Roman]

Yes, But I would honor and respect the laws, people and language of where I was going. I would try to blend in as if I were one of them.

Most of these people are uneducated and not sophisticated. They are just trying to survive, and doing the best they can.

[zaggahamma]

so yes , open borders? no ifs ands or buts?

[lovbyts]

our immigration policies her suck. I seen it with my wife. she was doing everything legally and was denied to be abel to stay and and had a deportation date. Also it took 5 years to get a work authorization card. Even though she had a social security card here. So most jobs wouldnt hire her with out that card.

I hear you, they are all messed up. I got lucky for the most part or my Mrs. did, she got her green card that they say doubles as a work permit but her 5yr old daughter got her work permit after only 6 months. LOL

The agriculture system would not be affected if they would make the work permits more accessible, easier to obtain or at least quicker and enforced them.

What pisses me off is every year they come up with this plan or that plan and a bunch of new laws. Laws are NOT going to make any difference. We have PLENTY of laws in place but no one will enforce them. It's all typical BS

[Times Roman]

so yes , open borders? no ifs ands or buts?

I guess i didn't go away like i said i would. sorry about that. I never said "open the boarders, no ifs and or buts"

what i did say was this....

"if the politicians have any balls, they would redevelop a worker visa program like they did almost a hundred years ago (brassero [sp?]). but they don't have any balls, so they stick to the current failed method of making it illegal and then giving amnesty every ten years or so."

not many understand the brassero (sp?) program. it was an excellent program. provided jobs to immigrants, gave them a small retirement, and they freely went home after their particular job was over. they didn't stay here. but because it is illegal to hire illegals, it is hard for them to find work. many have kids who then become citizens, and then go on welfare.

my point is this. instead of prohibiting something someone is going to do anyways, it is ALWAYS better to regulate it, then control it, and that way everybody is happy.

[gixxerboy1]

i dont blame the mexicans for coming here. Like TR said if i was in that situation too im sure i would do it. But i would excep the punishment (deportation) if caught. I wouldnt act like i had the right to be here.

I'm more pissed at the system. After going threw it 1st hand.

[Times Roman]

^ your woman is a slightly different situation, as she didn't come here out of desperation, no money, no job (edit out the parts that aren't true). my point is that the typical mexican immigrant really has few if any options. It's really a sad sad situation.

[gixxerboy1]

^ your woman is a slightly different situation, as she didn't come here out of desperation, no money, no job (edit out the parts that aren't true). my point is that the typical mexican immigrant really has few if any options. It's really a sad sad situation.

your right. She came here on a student visa to do an internship in the summer and never left. But she tried staying legally and was turned down and they issued a deportation order. So she was worried if she ever got stopped by a cop or tried to get on a plane she would be detained. But if she never tried to do it legally she would have been fine like the Mexicans

[thegodfather]

blah blah blah blah......blahhhhh

1. Constitutional amendment to end birthright citizenship. Citizenship should only extend to babies born of legal US residents. Goodbye anchor babies.

2. Illegal immigrants do jobs Americans dont want to do AT THE RATE BEING PAID. This is simple supply side economics. The American worker occupied these jobs before the illegals did, when the illegals came to America OFFERING TO DO THE JOB FOR 40% LESS, who did the businessman decide to hire? Illegals pool their resources, and so they are able to survive on wages not possible for legal citizens.

3. End all entitlements for illegal immigrants. This is about removing the incentive for illegals to come here in the first place. If we deny them access to free medical care, education, and other social welfare programs, we have removed a great deal of incentive.

4. Deportation for all current illegal immigrants. This would be a slow process, not a giant mass round up. However, when a police officer pulls over an illegal immigrant, they dont get a ticket and sent on their way, they get detained and deported.


And Times New Roman's argument is all fine and good, except for those other cultures that emmigrated to the United States, the Italians, the Irish, they ASSIMILATED into the US culture, they LEARNED ENGLISH, and adopted our traditions. The Mexican immigrant wants to do NONE OF THOSE THINGS. They want us to learn Spanish, and they want to retain all of their traditions while adopting and conforming to none of ours, all the while undercutting the American worker and offering their services under the table and off the books.

[BigBadWolf]

No one has mentioned anything about the construction industry, specifically the housing market. Without the illegal mexicans performing these jobs that no one else wants to do, new home prices would sky rocket to the point where no one could afford new homes, the opposite of what the market needs in order to recover. The rate of production of new homes would slow to a snail's pace as well. In the residential construction industry, the illegal immigrants did not steal jobs from the "hard working" legal Americans, they merely fulfilled a need that was not being met by the self entitled citizens of our country. Most legal Americans of all colors feel that they are above earning $12 an hour hanging sheetrock or installing roofing, and instead of working 60 hours a week like the illegals, a 20 or 30 hour work week would be the norm as they can't work Mondays because they're still fvcked up from the weekend and the weekend starts Thursday after work so Fridays are a wash as well. The prices of everything from lawn maintenance to pool care and restaurant food would sky rocket without them. Not to mention the implications on food prices from no one willing to work the agricultural jobs.

I'm not supporting illegal immigrants, just pointing out some problems that would arise if they were all gone. IMO they should put the national guard to defend and seal the border to stop anymore from coming over. The ones over her already should not be given amnesty or access to any social programs whatsoever until they can prove that they have paid income taxes for a period of say five years. This would require a drastic overhaul of many social programs but really it's necessary regardless. The idea of deporting them all is ridiculous both from an economic and logistic standpoint. The key IMO is to keep more from coming over and develop a method of making sure that they PAY THEIR TAXES.

You should get into politics

[thegodfather]

No one has mentioned anything about the construction industry, specifically the housing market. Without the illegal mexicans performing these jobs that no one else wants to do, new home prices would sky rocket to the point where no one could afford new homes, the opposite of what the market needs in order to recover. The rate of production of new homes would slow to a snail's pace as well. In the residential construction industry, the illegal immigrants did not steal jobs from the "hard working" legal Americans, they merely fulfilled a need that was not being met by the self entitled citizens of our country. Most legal Americans of all colors feel that they are above earning $12 an hour hanging sheetrock or installing roofing, and instead of working 60 hours a week like the illegals, a 20 or 30 hour work week would be the norm as they can't work Mondays because they're still fvcked up from the weekend and the weekend starts Thursday after work so Fridays are a wash as well. The prices of everything from lawn maintenance to pool care and restaurant food would sky rocket without them. Not to mention the implications on food prices from no one willing to work the agricultural jobs.

I'm not supporting illegal immigrants, just pointing out some problems that would arise if they were all gone. IMO they should put the national guard to defend and seal the border to stop anymore from coming over. The ones over her already should not be given amnesty or access to any social programs whatsoever until they can prove that they have paid income taxes for a period of say five years. This would require a drastic overhaul of many social programs but really it's necessary regardless. The idea of deporting them all is ridiculous both from an economic and logistic standpoint. The key IMO is to keep more from coming over and develop a method of making sure that they PAY THEIR TAXES.

I respectfully disagree with your assessment. As stated in the aforementioned, when illegal immigrants showed up en masse, offering their services for 1/3 of what American workers were being paid, its a no brainer for the employer. The wages of an unskilled laborer are not that much when you're ACTUALLY PAYING TAXES! So add in the fact that the illegal immigrant is offering his services at a far reduced rate, and the fact that the American worker is paying taxes, and yes you could errantly assume the American 'doesnt want that job,' but dont ever forget to posit that statement with 'at that rate.' Additionally, Mexican workers usually live with many other migrants, in inexpensive rentals, pooling their resources in the United States, allowing them to live on extremely meager wages. The American worker however, does not live 10 people to a 2 bedroom apartment, and thus requires more funds to support his family.


Any VOID in the market, specifically the housing market, was created and influenced by government meddling in the free market. The governments push in the late 90's to early 2000's, for increased home ownership among Americans, created a housing boom. So once again, I really think that government intervention into the market incentivized the hiring of illegal immigrants. They were available, and they were cheap, and there was little consequence to employ them.

If illegal immigrants were not available to offer their services for 1/3 of what American workers are willing to be paid for the same jobs, employers would be forced to pay a fair wage for the job. Yes, this cost would be passed on to the consumer, but the impacts of illegal immigration are not just seen in the sticker prices of goods. The impacts are seen in the form of bankrupt schools, hospitals, and towns within 100 miles of the border. Our social resources are being drained from this county by illegal immigration, we have the illusion of a cost savings, when in reality our propensity to pay little at the counter, hits us much harder on our education, healthcare, and social welfare infrastructure.

[JohnnyVegas]

our immigration policies her suck. I seen it with my wife. she was doing everything legally and was denied to be abel to stay and and had a deportation date. Also it took 5 years to get a work authorization card. Even though she had a social security card here. So most jobs wouldnt hire her with out that card.

I won't get sucked into the overall debate here. It is a complicated issue that cannot be solved by ideologues on either side of the argument.

But, I will agree with Gixxer that our systems are a bit of a mess for those that DO want to come here legally. We have friends that told us the things they went through to get married and bring her over from Ecuador. Then, they continued to have problems with her status after she was here. She also had problems with employment because of stupid paperwork errors, or things that didn't get filed. What a mess.