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Thread: Why we need the vaccine

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    Why we need the vaccine

    A lot of people are on the fence on whether or not to get the COVID vaccine. While all doctors are saying this is mandatory in order to eliminate the virus on a nationwide or global scale, there are still people who are skeptical.

    The fact is that if a large number of people donít get the vaccine, it will keep coming back, in various forms, as the virus mutates in order to survive.

    The way viruses survive is that they enter the host, proliferate within the host, and go on to infect others. Most people who survive will build up antibodies to defend against the same virus.

    If a person who has had the vaccine encounters the virus, the body will quickly recognize it and eliminate the threat with antibodies. However, if the person had the vaccine, but they encounter a mutated new version of the virus, they will still get sick. The antibodies may help a little, or not at all.

    If you donít get the vaccine and you get infected, you are giving the virus a chance to mutate and release back into the wild. The virus we had in January is not the same as the one in December.

    The only way this mutation of the virus happens is if it has a human host. If you donít get the vaccine, you are a prime host.

    So really, the only way we are going to eliminate the threat of this virus is to make sure that it is purged out of circulation. And that is done through a vaccine.
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    Considering the long term damage associated with the virus (lung, heart, and kidney fibrosis) I would hope that most countries make it semi-mandatory, the way the MMR vaccine and others are. We almost eliminated Polio before the Anti-vax movement, I really hope governments put a chokehold on these ignorant fucks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Test Monsterone View Post

    So really, the only way we are going to eliminate the threat of this virus is to make sure that it is purged out of circulation. And that is done through a vaccine.
    Or we could have avoided screwing the pooch to begin with, and could have let it spread like wildfire, achieving near 90+% infection in a short enough timeframe before the antibody effect could wear off.

    Very rare is something like a rhinovirus which has extremely high circulation, high infection, low mutation, but high recurrence due to short antibody lifespan. Itís also convenient that these viruses create symptoms so mild that only the worst off of us could be killed by it. Sound familiar?

    Iím by no means a conspiracy wonk, and I donít give three fifths of a fuck whether people get the thing or not. Those of us who have survived it already (especially those who shook it off with barely a symptom) have less to worry about anyway. If it can reinfect in such a short period, a vaccine will do sweet fuck all anyway, and weíre back to chasing our asses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    It’s also convenient that these viruses create symptoms so mild that only the worst off of us could be killed by it. Sound familiar?
    The symptoms are not mild, it has a much higher fatality rate than the normal flu and it causes permanent fibrosis of the lungs, heart, and kidneys, which are going to be costing the healthcare system, our tax's, and the health and wellbeing of our society for decades.

    You're right that it has a low rate of mutation, which is why the vaccine will be effective.

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    I’m not sure if you have anyone in your family that works in healthcare, but I do. Both as doctors and nurses. The people dying are anywhere from old to young. A young fitness guy got really sick, another guy who died was a runner, in top shape. A friend of a family we know is currently in critical condition.

    The herd immunity you speak of, Gallowmere, would take a long time to take effect, if it ever did. The virus would continue to mutate and reinfect people. It would be a cycle after cycle of new viruses. Only by providing a relatively immediate immunity to everyone will the virus die off.

    The healthcare experts spoke loud and clear: if we want to return back to normal and stop wearing masks and reopen our businesses, we need to get this vaccine. I personally don’t see a big deal. I don’t see a reason for debate even.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    Or we could have avoided screwing the pooch to begin with, and could have let it spread like wildfire, achieving near 90+% infection in a short enough timeframe before the antibody effect could wear off.
    Sure we could have done that...
    If we did nothing it was predicted that 2.2 million Americans would die.

    As is... even with all the measures that have been taken place... over 300,000 Americans have died in less than a year.
    We had two different days last week where more Americans died in a day than died on 9/11.
    Almost 2,500 Americans are dying everyday right now.
    Covid is the top cause of death in the US right now.

    I don't know about you but I personally am not willing to let over 2 million Americans die.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Test Monsterone View Post
    I’m not sure if you have anyone in your family that works in healthcare, but I do. Both as doctors and nurses. The people dying are anywhere from old to young. A young fitness guy got really sick, another guy who died was a runner, in top shape. A friend of a family we know is currently in critical condition.

    The herd immunity you speak of, Gallowmere, would take a long time to take effect, if it ever did. The virus would continue to mutate and reinfect people. It would be a cycle after cycle of new viruses. Only by providing a relatively immediate immunity to everyone will the virus die off.

    The healthcare experts spoke loud and clear: if we want to return back to normal and stop wearing masks and reopen our businesses, we need to get this vaccine. I personally don’t see a big deal. I don’t see a reason for debate even.
    I have a really good friend whose 15yr old son has been running a fever for 29 days straight.
    Can't imagine that is good for his long term health.

    Yeah, it looks like he will live.
    But fuck me I am scared for him.

    I can't even imagine if that were my kid.

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    Why we need the vaccine

    Quote Originally Posted by DustMan View Post
    The symptoms are not mild, it has a much higher fatality rate than the normal flu and it causes permanent fibrosis of the lungs, heart, and kidneys, which are going to be costing the healthcare system, our tax's, and the health and wellbeing of our society for decades.

    You're right that it has a low rate of mutation, which is why the vaccine will be effective.
    Weíve had multiple confirmed positives between where I work and those who live with them. One case out of roughly 26 had anything beyond the loss of taste/smell and a mild fever.
    So yeah, it is mild in many. The scaremongering really needs to fucking stop. Not everything is a worst case scenario.
    Is it killing some? Absolutely. Is it anywhere near the majority (or even a notable minority)? Not by a long shot.
    Last edited by Gallowmere; 12-15-2020 at 08:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    The scaremongering really needs to fucking stop.
    No scaremongering here... just simple math...

    There are 330 million Americans.
    You mentioned letting 90+% get infected.
    That would be 297+ million Americans getting infected.

    At a 1.5% mortality rate thatwould be 4.455+ million dead Americans.
    At a 1% mortality rate that would be 2.97+ million dead Americans.
    At a 0.5% mortality rate that would be 1.485+ million dead Amricans.

    How many dead Americans is an acceptable number?


    (and this doesn't even address those who don't die but suffer long term health issues...)

    note: The latest I have seen is a 1.5% mortality rate.
    "Instead, the virus has, with ruthless regularity, killed at least 1.5 percent of all Americans diagnosed with COVID-19 over the past four months."
    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...-surge/617150/
    Last edited by The Deadlifting Dog; 12-15-2020 at 08:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog View Post
    No scaremongering here... just simple math...

    There are 330 million Americans.
    You mentioned letting 90+% get infected.
    That would be 297+ million Americans getting infected.

    At a 1% mortality rate that would be 2.97+ million dead Americans.
    At a 0.5% mortality rate that would be 1.485+ million dead Amricans.

    How many dead Americans is an acceptable number?


    (and this doesn't even address those who don't die but suffer long term health issues...)
    No number above ďzeroĒ will be an acceptable answer for most, but thatís not reality, nor will it ever be.
    Anyone who purports to be able to put an ďacceptableĒ number down is playing in a realm that they either have no business in, or are completely delusional.
    The only correct answer is ďhowever many die or suffer long term consequencesĒ. Why? Because thatís what will have happened, and it can either be accepted or denied. Neither one changes reality.

    Frankly, I donít have a dog in this fight. My life has been almost completely unaffected, both personally and professionally. Iíve had the virus, so reinfection isnít a concern for me, or at least not one that a vaccine can address. We donít get superpowered magical antibodies from a vaccine that arenít created in the wake of the virus itself, so unless these antibodies have a shorter effective life than even those for rhinoviruses (not likely), Iím not concerned.

    Iím not trying to sway anyone against it either. Definitely get it if youíre genuinely concerned about infection. Donít if youíre not. I really donít care, I just want this ďno one can ever get sickĒ nonsense to stop.
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    Vaccines should not be mandatory but unfortunately they are. I had to get both my kids several vaccines up until they were 5 years old. These vaccines have been in circulation for years, and no negative side effects in either of my kids were seen. I am pro vaccine, if in fact it actually works. I dont know if it does or not so time will tell. What conservatives like myself dont like is things being forced up on us. We are anti abortion, id say 99%. There are a few instances i can it’s justified. But not just bc “ah hell i dont want that responsibility ill just kill that baby” ...
    So liberals come back and say “my body my choice” but when we refuse a mandatory vaccine all hell breaks loose. Google how many babies have been mudered this year. I dont want to hear covid kills this or that, we are in a pandemic. Its human nature, history. Happens every so often.
    My thoughts on the vaccine, if you want it get it. If not , dont get it. I absolutely hate democratic leadership cant stand it. No gatherings, no church worship, but its ok for giant chain stores to remain flourishing. Close the little mans business, no big deal...not like he is feeding his family.

    Everyone in my household has had the virus, kids were virtually unaffected. Wife had moderate case, i had the worst case. It was rough, but at no time did i worry of dying. I will do what i think is right for me and my family, not what a shitbag politician says is best for me. Fuck that. You think those cocksuckers missed any paychecks? Or are going to in the future?
    Not gonna argue anyones beliefs on the covid thing, think what and how you will thats the freedom of being an American. And you can thank your American soldier for that not your governor.
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    That's a defeatist attitude Gallowmere, the government can't just say "Whoever die's, die's, fuck em, fend for yourselves", the government enacts policy based on voter opinion, so your opinion matters and if it's not rooted in science, it's rooted in ignorance, so lets not base our opinions around anything other than scientific expertise before we end up with anymore deaths.

    Excuse my lack of candor, but the situation is serious, there isn't any room for laymen conjecture when the outcome is death and suffering. Vaccines are effective and will reduce death and suffering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuz View Post
    And you can thank your American soldier for that not your governor.
    Damn straight.

    And sure as hell don't thank any draft dodgers.
    Those fuckers should probably be barred from being president...

    But seriously...
    No one has mandated the covid vaccine.
    Trump won't and Biden says he won't.

    And I agree that the government did a shitty job throughout all of this...
    From the president to the governors and mayors.

    And now they are blaming each other for not passing a relief package.

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    I'm not a fan of big pharma and I certainly don't like their nonstop increase of vaccines, especially how they want to jab a ton into our children at such a young age. I'm not an anti-vaxxer, but I spread my son's vaccines so far apart to avoid an complications. I know people who swear they got autism after MMR, the next day literally. There could be something going on that we may not understand. I feel big pharm and anything "big" isn't really looking out for our best interests; they have lied and they have also harmed people, and are not even liable for their products. Now I'm not trying to get into a conspiracy debate with people here, but I am against mandatory vaccination of any type.



    Now we have this mRNA vaccine which is essentially experimental and we have no idea what it could do to humans. To jab the entire planet to stop this virus which has a very low mortality rate, is insane. Do you really think big pharm and the rest of these people care for the people that much? I don't. I'm very skeptical of their agendas and intentions.

    Govts are most certainly taking advantage of this crisis to enact more laws and gain more power over the population; not to mention, the 1% is having a field day while the middle class is being obliterated.

    And all this from a bat soup and not from a lab in Wuhan, lol...Sure. This is something else.
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    Last edited by JuliusPleaser; 12-15-2020 at 10:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DustMan View Post
    That's a defeatist attitude Gallowmere, the government can't just say "Whoever die's, die's, fuck em, fend for yourselves", the government enacts policy based on voter opinion, so your opinion matters and if it's not rooted in science, it's rooted in ignorance, so lets not base our opinions around anything other than scientific expertise before we end up with anymore deaths.

    Excuse my lack of candor, but the situation is serious, there isn't any room for laymen conjecture when the outcome is death and suffering. Vaccines are effective and will reduce death and suffering.
    The government may not be able to, but I certainly can.
    I will admit to being Darwinian to a fault. I just canít be bothered to find tragedy in the weakest among us being weeded out en masse, when propping up said weakest for generations absolutely explains a lot of the resource problems that we face in our current society.
    Iíll stop before some smartass tries to equate ďsurvival of the best adaptedĒ to misguided ass eugenics programs (that had absolutely fuck all to do with the principles I am talking about, by the way), and just say at some point, weíre going to reach the final tipping point for unsustainable expenditure versus return. I just hope itís after all of us here are long dead and gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuz View Post
    What conservatives like myself dont like is things being forced up on us.
    Do you follow traffic rules and obey the law? Those are rules we follow for the good of the many. Same as vaccines that have been proven to work, otherwise they would not have been passed by the FDA.
    BTW conservatives try to force all kinds of things upon us such as marital laws, abortion laws, and now, they're trying to tell us who won the election even though 7 million votes say otherwise. So I'm not sure where you get this idea that dems are the only ones forcing things upon us. The way I see it, it comes from both sides.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cuz View Post
    We are anti abortion, id say 99%. There are a few instances i can it’s justified. But not just bc “ah hell i dont want that responsibility ill just kill that baby” ...
    Do you really think women just go to the clinic every other weekend to get an abortion? It's a tough, painful, and embarrassing experience. It's a last resort type of thing and they're not cheap. Something like $500. Abortions happened even in times where abortion was illegal. Only they took place in secrecy and the procedures were performed by unqualified people, which resulted in many women dying. I'm not saying I agree with the notion of abortions, but it doesn't hurt anyone but the women and the unborn/unconscious fetus. Unlike a deadly virus (even at it's lowly 1. something percent death rate).

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuz View Post
    My thoughts on the vaccine, if you want it get it. If not , dont get it. I absolutely hate democratic leadership cant stand it.
    I don't see how this has anything to do with democratic leadership. This is science and medicine. Science and medicine is not liberal or conservative. The truth is not liberal or conservative. How do you know what's better for the health and safety of humanity than people with Phd's and Doctorates that do this for a living?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Test Monsterone View Post
    Do you follow traffic rules and obey the law? Those are rules we follow for the good of the many. Same as vaccines that have been proven to work, otherwise they would not have been passed by the FDA.
    BTW conservatives try to force all kinds of things upon us such as marital laws, abortion laws, and now, they're trying to tell us who won the election even though 7 million votes say otherwise. So I'm not sure where you get this idea that dems are the only ones forcing things upon us. The way I see it, it comes from both sides.




    Do you really think women just go to the clinic every other weekend to get an abortion? It's a tough, painful, and embarrassing experience. It's a last resort type of thing and they're not cheap. Something like $500. Abortions happened even in times where abortion was illegal. Only they took place in secrecy and the procedures were performed by unqualified people, which resulted in many women dying. I'm not saying I agree with the notion of abortions, but it doesn't hurt anyone but the women and the unborn/unconscious fetus. Unlike a deadly virus (even at it's lowly 1. something percent death rate).


    I don't see how this has anything to do with democratic leadership. This is science and medicine. Science and medicine is not liberal or conservative. The truth is not liberal or conservative. How do you know what's better for the health and safety of humanity than people with Phd's and Doctorates that do this for a living?
    Again dude, you have your beliefs and i have mine. As stated, im not going to argue with you. Have a great day sir
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    What happens when it keeps mutating and they need to keep locking us down forever? lol https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...-say-1.5231639

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuliusPleaser View Post
    What happens when it keeps mutating and they need to keep locking us down forever? lol https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...-say-1.5231639
    Therein lies part of my problem with the whole thing. If this ends up being something akin to influenza where constant mutation makes regular vaccination a crapshoot at best, we have two options.
    A: accept it as a part of life, as we have with influenza. Ensure that those at greatest risk are vaccinated and hope they guessed right on the strain.
    B: keep repeating 2020 ad nauseum until everything falls apart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    Therein lies part of my problem with the whole thing. If this ends up being something akin to influenza where constant mutation makes regular vaccination a crapshoot at best, we have two options.
    A: accept it as a part of life, as we have with influenza. Ensure that those at greatest risk are vaccinated and hope they guessed right on the strain.
    B: keep repeating 2020 ad nauseum until everything falls apart.
    Think if it starts adapting to that extent, we'll get both options, Gallow, and UVC light will become extremely common.
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    My last link is quite telling.

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    Covid is a coronavirus & just like the flu mutates each year, so you have to guess that Covid will too. This means that if Covid is anything like this time, they get the genetic sequence quickly and come up with a vaccine BEFORE it hits the USA.

    However the influenza vaccine is a combination of different strains of the flu so it is more of an approximation, which is why estimates of this yearís success of the flu vaccine was as low as 20% - 30%. The Covid -19 vaccination is far more specific, but letís see the actual effectiveness rates in the real population, but assumably theyíll be much higher than that.

    IF it pops back (the 1918 flu didnít), then expect a repeat of 2020-2021 but the vaccination should drop the numbers and we wonít hit what will probably be close to 400,000 deaths.

    Hopefully, this vaccination will eventually offset the bumps in hospitalizations because of gatherings for Christmas and New Years. However there are already ICUís that have reached max capacity & things could get damn dicey.

    Regarding schools, this vaccine is currently not intended for anyone under 16 and they havenít started testing that yet, so next August sure ainít a sure thing. It will be interesting if they make vaccinations mandatory in schools like similar vaccines, that is IF the vaccine works for kids and teens.

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    I'm seriously hearing they are going to using lots of UVC lighting and the automatons with UVC lights like they are using in hospitals for K-12 schools.

    Edit: Can't imagine the logistics.
    Last edited by almostgone; 12-15-2020 at 05:05 PM.
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    Never had a flu vaccine & im not getting this garbage

    Not till it’s actually proven safe on plenty of sheeple test subjects

    Shit, I trust my bathtub brew guy’s gear more than this magically appearing vaccine


    I been to the hospital way too many times this year - I know what it looks like

    Agreed completely - the fear mongering is out of control around this. So coincidental that it all happened election year & right after the election this “magical” vaccine was dropped on our door step
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    They already tested this on thousands of people and a vaccine works the same whether it’s COVID or the flu. This isn’t some new technology. You trusted medical personnel to treat you when you were sick, so why the change of heart? You trust your homebrew guy over medical professionals and researchers with thousands of hours of experience. Ok that’s just ignorant. Good luck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Test Monsterone View Post
    They already tested this on thousands of people and a vaccine works the same whether itís COVID or the flu. This isnít some new technology. You trusted medical personnel to treat you when you were sick, so why the change of heart? You trust your homebrew guy over medical professionals and researchers with thousands of hours of experience. Ok thatís just ignorant. Good luck.
    I always find the anti-ďbig pharmaĒ attitude particularly hilarious on a board like this. Yeah, hgh, insulin , test and nandrolone have endogenous analogues. Everything else we shove into our bodies? Not so much. Where the hell do people think this shit came from?
    Hell, even the real natural stuff works like shit compared to esterified hormones and timed release compounds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    I always find the anti-“big pharma” attitude particularly hilarious on a board like this. Yeah, hgh, insulin , test and nandrolone have endogenous analogues. Everything else we shove into our bodies? Not so much. Where the hell do people think this shit came from?
    Hell, even the real natural stuff works like shit compared to esterified hormones and timed release compounds.
    Yeah I know a chick who would rather eat 3 bags of green powder off of Amazon than take an FDA approved medicine that has been thoroughly tested and prescribed for years. People are lost.

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    There is so much conspiracy theories about this vaccine, most people I know don't want to take it, including myself, who just had covid, so what point do I need to take it if my own body has/is building immunity to it. Why would I have to take a vaccine? I don't need to, and no one could convince me to. But I'm not one who thinks there is a chip in there or some other thing, I'm not going to inject anything into my body which was this speedily created on a massive scale, by companies who have been known to lie to the public and are completely liability free from anything.

    However, my biggest concern is govt overreach and special interests. There is no question the govts of the world are LOVING how easily they have gotten us to do what they wanted, not to mention the top 1% getting richer and the middle class has been completely obliterated, exacerbating this already terrible situation with their draconian measures, many of which are totally hypocritical. You can go "protest" for BLM by shooting police and burning down cities but you can't go to church lol.

    There is one thing that is NOT a conspiracy, and that is the fourth industrial revolution. Something you should all look into. Magically, this pandemic gives these people virtually everything they've ever wanted. https://www.thelastamericanvagabond....et-new-normal/
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    Quote Originally Posted by < > View Post
    Come on dude.
    Given the administration quantities, this is effectively a non-event.
    We see worse allergen ratios than this from a lot of OTC shit with long histories, but I knew this nonsense was going to get brought up by doomsayers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    Come on dude.
    Given the administration quantities, this is effectively a non-event.
    We see worse allergen ratios than this from a lot of OTC shit with long histories, but I knew this nonsense was going to get brought up by doomsayers.
    True

    But, I’m still not buying it

    The government controlled medical world is not to be trusted - give it some time, then sure

    Throw a few hundred thousand test subjects at it & I’ll be convinced


    Personally, to me - it looks just like the plot from Vendetta. . . All the sudden, a magical revolutionary vaccine just pops out practically the same day the election is finalized

    Fuck being the pawn in someone else’s game


    So far - it’s worked in my favor


    Am I right? Fuck if I know


    I’m from Russia - I learned not to trust your government at a very young age
    Last edited by < <Samson> >; 12-17-2020 at 07:06 AM.
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  33. #33
    Gallowmere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by < > View Post
    True

    But, Iím still not buying it

    The government controlled medical world is not to be trusted - give it some time, then sure

    Throw a few hundred thousand test subjects at it & Iíll be convinced


    Personally, to me - it looks just like the plot from Vendetta. . . All the sudden, a magical revolutionary vaccine just pops out practically the same day the election is finalized

    Fuck being the pawn in someone elseís game


    So far - itís worked in my favor


    Am I right? Fuck if I know


    Iím from Russia - I learned not to trust your government at a very young age
    Oh, donít get it twisted: I am by NO means saying that our government is even remotely trustworthy. I ascribe it more to incompetence than malice though.

    The Russian aspect is kind of amusing to me, because it makes sense for you, but makes US conspiracy theorists look like idiots. Itís well known now that a lot of the ďzomg fluoride in ze water is poisonĒ crap only got as big as it did in its time, because the Russians were funding the groups promoting that nonsense as part of their disinformation propaganda wing that wanted to make the US look evil/incompetent. The fact that there WAS a form of conspiracy, just one that was propping up the groupís bullshit, but it goes overlooked, is a beautiful form of irony to me.
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  34. #34
    tarmyg's Avatar
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  35. #35
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    No thanks

    Eat, pound, sleep...
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  36. #36
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    3,400 Americans died yesterday from Covid.
    That's the third day in the last week that more Americans died of Covid than on 9/11.

    We are averaging 2,500 deaths a day.

    Over 300,000 Americans have died of Covid.

    The one first world country, Sweden, that openly tried to use herd immunity had to abandon it.
    (We have quietly been going this route thanks to Dr. Atlas...)

    Not scare mongering... just math.

    But now a bit of scare mongering...

    "Yes, COVID-19 Can Cause Erectile Dysfunction in Men"

    https://health.clevelandclinic.org/y...nction-in-men/

    I personally would much rather have to take an epi shot to counter-act an allergic reaction then have to use a strap-on...

  37. #37
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    I am just getting over my stuffy nose that came back as covid positive.
    Felt like a 7 days stuffy nose. First day was a runny nose. Had no shortness of breath as well as the other four people I live with. I guess we were lucky

    Eat, pound, sleep...

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jolter604 View Post
    I am just getting over my stuffy nose that came back as covid positive.
    Felt like a 7 days stuffy nose. First day was a runny nose. Had no shortness of breath as well as the other four people I live with. I guess we were lucky

    Eat, pound, sleep...
    Feel better, glad your symptoms are mild.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by wango View Post
    Feel better, glad your symptoms are mild.
    Thank you wango.
    I was already cleared to return to work Monday.
    Hopefully I will not catch it again.

    Eat, pound, sleep...
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  40. #40
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    I may have had it, i'm not sure. For about 3-4 days I was getting hot and cold at night. I just felt uncomfortable the whole time and I developed a dry cough for 2 days only. It came and went throughout the day. Just felt a little run down, too. Still managed to work out somehow but at night I would feel crappy.
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