# Thread: UNoffical "How to Bulk" thread and sample diet...

1. Originally Posted by ravid32
I'm 19 year old 5'8 135 pounds trying hit 155 within 4-6 weeks. Any recommended diets within a student budget and not time consuming? sorry for the double posts

2. This information seems dated with the harris-benedict equation.
1/ Harris-Benedict formula: Very inaccurate. It was derived from studies on LEAN, YOUNG, ACTIVE males MANY YEARS AGO (1919). Notorious for OVERESTIMATING requirements, especially in the overweight. IF YOU CAN AVOID IT, DON'T USE IT!
MEN: BMR = 66 + [13.7 x weight (kg)] + [5 x height (cm)] - [6.76 x age (years)]
WOMEN: BMR = 655 + [9.6 x weight (kg)] + [1.8 x height (cm)] - [4.7 x age (years)]

2/Mifflin-St Jeor: Developed in the 1990s and more realistic in todays settings. It still doesn't take into consideration the differences as a consequence of high BF%. Thus, once again, it OVERESTIMATES NEEDS, ESPECIALLY IN THE OVERWEIGHT.
MEN: BMR = [9.99 x weight (kg)] + [6.25 x height (cm)] - [4.92 x age (years)] + 5
WOMEN: BMR = [9.99 x weight (kg)] + [6.25 x height (cm)] - [4.92 x age (years)] -161

3/Katch-McArdle:Considered the most accurate formula for those who are relatively lean. Use ONLY if you have a good estimate of your bodyfat %.
BMR = 370 + (21.6 x LBM)Where LBM = [total weight (kg) x (100 - bodyfat %)]/100

You then multiply these by an 'activity variable' to give TEE. This Activity Factor[/u] is the cost of living and it is BASED ON MORE THAN JUST YOUR TRAINING. It also includes work/lifestyle, sport & a TEF of ~15% (an average mixed diet). Average activity variables are:
1.2 = Sedentary (Little or no exercise + desk job)
1.3-1.4 = Lightly Active (Little daily activity & light exercise 1-3 days a week)
1.5-1.6 = Moderately Active (Moderately active daily life & Moderate exercise 3-5 days a week)
1.7-1.8 = Very Active (Physically demanding lifestyle & Hard exercise or sports 6-7 days a week)
1.9-2.0 = Extremely Active (Hard daily exercise or sports and physical job)

So to convert BMR to a TOTAL requirement: multiply the result of your BMR by the variable you fall into!
How Accurate are they?: Well, although they give rough ball-park figures, they are still 'guesstimations' and most people still OVERESTIMATE activity, UNDERESTIMATE bodyfat & end up eating TOO MUCH. So the aim is to use these as 'rough figures', monitor your weight/ measurements for 2-4 weeks, & IF your weight is stable/ measurements are stable, you have likely found maintenance.

Using the Above to Recalculate Based on Goals
You then need to DECREASE or INCREASE intake based on your goals (eg: lose or gain mass). And instead of using 'generic calorie amounts' (eg: 500 cals/ day), this should be calculated on a % of your maintenance. Why? The effect of a given calorie amount on an individual is going to be markedly different based on their size/ total calorie intake. For example - subtracting 500 cals/ day from a 1500 total intake is 1/3rd of the total cals, where 500 cals/ day from 3000 total intake is only 1/6th of the total. The results will therefore be markedly different on an individuals energy level & weight loss. So generally:
- To ADD weight: ADD 10-20% calories to the total above
- To LOSE weight: SUBTRACT 10-20% calories from the total above
Then monitor your results and adjust as required.

NOTE: IF YOU ARE LESS THAN 18 YRS OF AGE - THESE FORMULA WILL NOT BE ACCURATE!There is an energy cost associated with growth / inefficient movement / high surface area:mass ratio. Look HERE for alternatives.
As a teenager I would also STRONGLY suggest you don't obsess on calories and macros! Eat well, exercise regularly, and have fun while you can!

Macronutrient NeedsOnce you work out calorie needs, you then work out how much of each macronutrient you should aim for. This is one of the areas that is MOST often confused but This should NOT be based on a RATIO of macro intakes. (eg: '30:40:30 or 40:40:20') Your body doesn't CARE what % intake you have. It works based on SUFFICIENT QUANTITY per LEAN MASS or TOTAL MASS. So to try to make it as simple as possible:

1. Protein: Believe it or not - Protein intake is a bit of a controversial issue. In this, the general recommendations given in the 'bodybuilding' area are nearly double the 'standard' recommendations given in the Sports Nutrition Arena.
The GENERAL sports nutrition guideline based on most studies out suggest that in the face of ADEQUATE calories and CARBS then the following protein intakes are sufficient:
STRENGTH training -> 1.2 to 1.6g per KG bodyweight (about .6 / pound)
ENDURANCE training -> 1.4 to 1.8g per KG bodyweight (about .8 / pound)
ADOLESCENT in training -> 1.8 to 2.2g per KG bodyweight (about 1g / pound)
BUT they also acknowledge that protein becomes MORE important in the context of LOWER calorie intakes, or LOWER carb intakes.

Regardless of this, the general 'bodybuilding' guidelines would be as follows:
- If you guess your bodyfat is AVERAGE = 1-1.25g per pound TOTAL weight
- If you KNOW your bodyfat = 1-1.5g per pound LEAN weight

If you are VERY LEAN or on a VERY LOW CALORIE INTAKE then protein should be higher:
- Average bodyfat, lower calorie intake = 1.25-1.5 per pound total mass
- Very lean, lower calorie intake = 1.33-2 per pounds lean mass

If you are VERY OVERWEIGHT, VERY INACTIVE, or on a HIGH calorie diet then you can decrease BELOW the above levels if desired*= ~ 1 x LEAN mass to 0.8-1 x total weight in pounds

Anecdotally, most find the HIGHER protein intake better for satiety, partitioning, and blood sugar control. So UNLESS you are specifically guided to use the GENERAL sports nutrition guidelines, I would suggest the BODYBUILDING values.

2. Fats: Generally speaking, although the body can get away with short periods of very low fat, in the long run your body NEEDS fat to maintain general health, satiety, and sanity. Additionally - any form of high intensity training will benefit from a 'fat buffer' in your diet - which acts to control free radical damage and inflammation. General guides:
Average or lean: 1 - 2g fat/ kg body weight [between 0.45 - 1g total weight/ pounds]
High bodyfat: 1-2g fat/ LEAN weight [between 0.45 - 1g LEAN weight/ pounds]
IF low calorie dieting - you can decrease further, but as a minimum, I would not suggest LESS than about 0.35g/ pound.
Note 1: Total fat intake is NOT the same as 'essential fats' (essential fats are specific TYPES of fats that are INCLUDED in your total fat intake)...

3. Carbs: Important for athletes, HIGHLY ACTIVE individuals, or those trying to GAIN MASS, carbs help with workout intensity, health, & satiety (+ sanity).
For carbs there are no specific 'requirements' for your body so for 'general folk' to calculate your carbs you just calculate it from the calories left over from fats/ protein:
carb calories = Total calorie needs - ([protein grams as above x 4] + [fat grams as above x 9])
carbs in grams = above total/ 4

If you are an athlete - I would actually suggest you CALCULATE a requirement for carbs as a PRIORITY - then go back and calculate protein / fat:
moderately active: 4.5 - 6.5 g/ kg (about 2 - 3g/ pound)
highly active: 6.5 - 9 g/ kg (about 3 - 4g/ pound)

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Awesome post.... Very good info for us newbies.

4. Ill definetly refer to this once I start dieting again.

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hello there. im new at this whole eating rite etc, i know for best result you must eat 6 to 8 times a day , but with my job it is impossible i can manage at 3 maybe 4 times a day , will it help if i just eat double or what should i do?

6. Welcome. Here is a nice thread on bulking I used and it helped me a lot.

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Originally Posted by Tigershark
Welcome. Here is a nice thread on bulking I used and it helped me a lot.
Tigershark, You just posted a link to the beginning of this thread.
For the rest of you, scroll up and read bucknut24's revision.

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Hi guys. new here. In fact just joined Jan 26, 2012. I realize this a super old post, however, was wondering if someone could shed some light on my stats based on the Harris Benedict Formula for Men
BMR = 66 + (13.7 X weight in kilos) + (5 X height in cm) - (6.8 X age in years). I am 6 foot, 140 lbs, I am a Pharmacy Tech always on my feet and always working up a sweat, I lift weights about 3 days a week, I play drums at my church(very fast songs-shirt usually drenched with sweat afterwards) So can anyone tell me what my calorie range would be based on by this? And my macro-nutrients too? thanks.

9. Great stuff. Much helppp.

10. Nice update!!!!

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Big thanks to "LeanMeOut" and "bucknut24" !! Great technical posts ;-)

12. Thank you all for this AMAZING INFO. I'm a newbie and this is definitely a great place to start.

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Thanks for all the info much appreciated.

Originally Posted by maddog101
Hi guys. new here. In fact just joined Jan 26, 2012. I realize this a super old post, however, was wondering if someone could shed some light on my stats based on the Harris Benedict Formula for Men
BMR = 66 + (13.7 X weight in kilos) + (5 X height in cm) - (6.8 X age in years). I am 6 foot, 140 lbs, I am a Pharmacy Tech always on my feet and always working up a sweat, I lift weights about 3 days a week, I play drums at my church(very fast songs-shirt usually drenched with sweat afterwards) So can anyone tell me what my calorie range would be based on by this? And my macro-nutrients too? thanks.
Lol why dont you input the values and work it out? it takes about 60 seconds. I would do it for you but you haven't given us your age.

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Thanks a million for this. Ive been eating clean for about 8-9 months now but have not gained any mass. Many of these things I eat daily but it seems that Im not eating enough both in terms of frequency and mass of food. I'm going to start this exact program tomorrow, we'll see if things turn up! Thanks again!

15. This was so hepfull. Thanks and thanks to JDBerretta for steering me this way

16. thats freakin insane... who eats that much?

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finishing cut about to start bulk based on this

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Great info thanks!

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Originally Posted by hotrod1
thanx bro that helps alot..........i was kinda confused but its all good now! Just a question........some people have told me not to eat protien before i work out.....is there a reason to that?

peace
bullshi...having protein and carbs before workout is great every pros do that but give a time to body for digest that.u can have a protein powder filled by bcaa just before workout and pro iso or carbo protein in post workout

20. Originally Posted by BDTR
i'm much more in favor of a toned down lee priest style bulk diet. I've found it works far better and i gain a lot more muscle, fat can always be stripped down after.

Fat is easier to lose than muscle is to gain, why limit yourself?

Your sample diet is good, the macros are correct, but in all honesty i prefer bulking with lots of red meat, lots of carbs and lots of fats and pay no attention to macros aside from protien (2 grams per lb of bodyweight) and the fats and carbs come in large amounts throughout the day as well..

Sure your way will put lean muscle on and limit fat loss, however my way is more fun. A sample bulking diet that i would use:

Meal 1. 1 1/2 servings n large 2 in milk with oatmeal and peanut butter and 4 eggs (cooked)

Meal 2. Steak, potatoes, veggies of some sort, 1/2 serving protien powder (usually whey) with olive oil (2-3 tablespoons)

Meal 3. Ground beef, onions, peppers, mushrooms, rice.

Meal 4. 1 1/2 servings n large 2, 2 tablespoons of olive oil, milk.

Ultrafuel preworkout

PWO
50 grams of whey, 150 grams of dextrose 20 ius of slin

PPWO
Chicken, rice, brocolli

Meal 6. Steak, mushrooms, onions potatoes or rice of some sort.

Meal 7. Nlarge 2 with milk, flax oil

Meal 8, 3 cans tuna with mayo and bread

Mid sleep snack - Cottage cheese, protien drink with milk.

So yeah... this diet isn't for endomorphs, but its what works for me.

It comes out to about 6500 cals, 600+ protien etc..

I also use 12.5mcg of t3 while bulking and the GH helps keep fat off.
Lee priest has said many times that yes he bulks like this, but he starts to cut a year out of the show he then further adds to his ability to cut from this with cardio 3 times a day, fasted am cardio, after his Resistance training at mid day and then again at night. Non pros dont have 4-5 hours to train a day, so dont try to eat like one.

Just to put things into perspective for all the new people reading this great thread. Heavy bulking like this with out GH and heavy gear, along with it takes 2-3 hours a day of cardio for a year to cut down form eating like this. may not be the best conclusion for all the 153lb 18 years browsing this thread right now.

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no wonder this is stickied.. post is a bit old but the info is awesome!

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This is fantastic information, thought my diet was solid, but looks like I need to tweak it a little.

23. Lots of valuable info..the post workout shake doubleing up on the complex carbs versus the protein was magnificent advice.Glad I read it.You learn something new everyday on this site.Great stuff.

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Greetings huge ones, a quick question for a new guy.. Do i need to eat this this even on my non training days? or days when im only doing cardio?

25. Thanks for this, great post!

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Originally Posted by toofatbuilder
i checked on your weight loss forum but its directed twards builders who need to cut down. not fatties like me who just need to drop lbs so i can continue lifting.....
Weight loss is pretty simple, brotha. Just cut the amount of fat, carb, and sugar intake, considerably. Eat clean, that means no cheating. (No deep fried foods, candy, sugar in general). The only time you should be taking in sugars is post work out, but this doesn't mean you get to chow a twinky when you are done shredding the gym.. you need to eat fruit- like strawberries, apples, blackberries. Stay away from too many bananas (highest sugar content amongst all fruit) You will WANT to eat breakfast (within an hr of waking up), mainly eggs and oats, and do not eat anything 2 hr before going to bed. DRINK WATER- the more water you drink the more hunger you supress. Drink water while you eat, drink water when you aren't eating, just keep drinking water. Don't misinterperet this for chugging water- like some highschool kid trying to pass a drug test, you could get H2o poisoning if you take it to the extreme.

If you wanna cut fat/lose weight while increasing overall fitness, circuit training is for you. Total body routines are the best, mixing upper body lower body and core. Look up some good circuits on google, come up with a game plan that does a full body target and stick to it four times a week with cardio (biking, running, elyptical). If you have leg/knee problems I would not suggest running until you've lost a good amount of weight.

I did mostly bodyweight circuits and tons of biking, dropped 60lbs and have kept it off successfully for 5 years now- the greatest decision of my life. Now I'm trying to bulk up lol go figure.

Good luck home skillet.

~8~

27. Stay tuned guys, a new 'how to add mass' sticky is coming soon.

28. Great post, copied the formula into my book/log & got to the math, found I was almost right on, but definetly needed to change my eating schedule & habits....

Thx, Wazz

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This is a GREAT post. Thank you. I've managed to add more mass in three weeks of following this than I was in the 7 weeks prior.

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Good post besides...
"Mix in some sugar free jam or splenda in your oats"
Terrible advice, in my opinion. You are what you eat, remember?
Try some molasses or pure maple syrup. More nutritious and no refined sugar, just the good old natural stuff. Sugar from nutritious sources shouldn't be an issue during bulking (like you stated with the whole fruit point). But telling people to use splenda is just bad, bad advice. At least advocate for something natural like stevia (if you cannot fathom using something with sugar) that doesn't come with harmful health effects.

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Great post. There is one thing I disagree with. The cardio. I'm an ectomorph's ectomorph. Some days where I think more, I burn almost 1,000 more calories. There's no way I can add cardio or I would have no hope of gaining weight. I've tried it and I WILL not put on weight unless I add an extra two meals a day. That would mean 6 meals a day to maintain 190lb. I'm not the norm. There are a few guys on here that would understand what I'm talking about. Most would probably not.

32. Originally Posted by Tasmaniac
Great post. There is one thing I disagree with. The cardio. I'm an ectomorph's ectomorph. Some days where I think more, I burn almost 1,000 more calories. There's no way I can add cardio or I would have no hope of gaining weight. I've tried it and I WILL not put on weight unless I add an extra two meals a day. That would mean 6 meals a day to maintain 190lb. I'm not the norm. There are a few guys on here that would understand what I'm talking about. Most would probably not.
here's an extra 2 meals for you

kronik's mass gainer protein shake

kronik's protein bar recipe
Last edited by kronik420; 05-05-2013 at 03:21 AM.

33. Originally Posted by kronik420

here's an extra 2 meals for you

kronik's mass gainer protein shake:

kronik's protein bar:
Damn won't let me see these

I come by and read this every couple months. The information is fantastic.
Last edited by Armykid93; 12-07-2012 at 02:05 PM.

34. Originally Posted by Armykid93
Damn won't let me see these

I come by and read this every couple months. The information is fantastic.

35. gotta say I like the 6.5 kcal diet on the 1st page!

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Good post thanks. When increasing calories for a clean bulk should I focus on increasing carb intake? While trying to keep fat under 20% and maintaining protein at around 1.5g per lb LBM?

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Im curious about how important the splitting of meals is into pro/fat and pro/carb ? I just feel like thats alot of fat to take at once, say lean ground beef with cheese ??

39. Originally Posted by 8man

Weight loss is pretty simple, brotha. Just cut the amount of fat, carb, and sugar intake, considerably. Eat clean, that means no cheating. (No deep fried foods, candy, sugar in general). The only time you should be taking in sugars is post work out, but this doesn't mean you get to chow a twinky when you are done shredding the gym.. you need to eat fruit- like strawberries, apples, blackberries. Stay away from too many bananas (highest sugar content amongst all fruit) You will WANT to eat breakfast (within an hr of waking up), mainly eggs and oats, and do not eat anything 2 hr before going to bed. DRINK WATER- the more water you drink the more hunger you supress. Drink water while you eat, drink water when you aren't eating, just keep drinking water. Don't misinterperet this for chugging water- like some highschool kid trying to pass a drug test, you could get H2o poisoning if you take it to the extreme.

If you wanna cut fat/lose weight while increasing overall fitness, circuit training is for you. Total body routines are the best, mixing upper body lower body and core. Look up some good circuits on google, come up with a game plan that does a full body target and stick to it four times a week with cardio (biking, running, elyptical). If you have leg/knee problems I would not suggest running until you've lost a good amount of weight.

I did mostly bodyweight circuits and tons of biking, dropped 60lbs and have kept it off successfully for 5 years now- the greatest decision of my life. Now I'm trying to bulk up lol go figure.

Good luck home skillet.

~8~
Really rad post dude

40. Almost 9 years later I would still like to point out that 250 carbs for a 220lb bodybuilder who wishes to bulk is probably not enough.

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