Best way for PM cardio

[FireGuy]

That's been my experience as well. I have also found that a lot of naturals that do daily cardio (especially the high intensity form) lose muscle and flatten out!

No one mentioned high intensity cardio. Regardless if you are natural or not, If you are doing 30-45 minutes of light intensity cardio in the morning and are chewing into your muscle it's because your diet is off not because of the cardio. As far as flattening out, who doesnt flatten out when getting lean? Flat doesnt equal muscle loss. I can fix flat in 12 hours.

[FireGuy]

Good read. BTW fireguy do you not ingest any aminos what so ever before your AM cardio? Be it through some zero carb whey or some other supp?

Personally i've found AM cardio with around 15 grams of zero carb protein prior, is the best way for me to lose fat.

Normally no, but this precontest diet I began 4 weeks ago I started taking in some BCAA's (pill form)upon waking and during my PWO cardio session.

[RED26]

Normally no, but this precontest diet I began 4 weeks ago I started taking in some BCAA's (pill form)upon waking and during my PWO cardio session.

You take BCAA's even when you're using AAS?

[FireGuy]

^^Not sure what one has to do with the other?

[RED26]

^^Not sure what one has to do with the other?

In relation, nothing.
Is just that when I'm on a cutting cycle, por example, when using tren +win I don't run any supplements like glutamine or BCAA's before cardio to prevent muscle loss or catabolism... I don't see the need, the steroids are providing a lot more anabolic enviroment so there's no need to worry.

[FireGuy]

I understand your reasoning behind the theory. Regardless if you are using AAS or are natural I would always advise dialing in your diet as perfect as possible. Remember I am also dieting for a contest and that places a lot more stress on you than simply "cutting". Even professional bodybuilders lose an appreciable amount of lean mass getting into contest shape.

[FireGuy]

To the original topic;

By Dan Gwartney, M.D.

There are two relative states that directly affect the fat cell’s willingness to release and break down fat. When the body is fasted (has not eaten for many hours), certain hormones are elevated, promoting a lipolytic (fat breakdown) response to the fat-losing hormones and neurotransmitters, the most important being norepinephrine— an adrenalin-like chemical released from nerve endings.18 When the body is fasted, the concentration of glucocorticoids is elevated, which upregulates (similar to stimulating or promoting) the production of desnutrin/ATGL.19 In the fed state, insulin concentrations are high, which activates the enzyme that turns off the fat-loss signal generated by the adrenaline-like biochemicals and drugs.18 There are a number of other hormones and signaling molecules that affect the fat cell’s preference to store or break down stored fat.

18. Jaworski K, Sarkadi-Nagy E, et al. Regulation of triglyceride metabolism. IV. Hormonal regulation of lipolysis in adipose tissue. Am J Physiol Gastrointest Liver Physiol, 2007 Jul;293(1):G1-4.

19. Villena JA, Roy S, et al. Desnutrin, an adipocyte gene encoding a novel patatin domain-containing protein, is induced by fasting and glucocorticoids: ectopic expression of desnutrin increases triglyceride hydrolysis. J Biol Chem, 2004 Nov 5;279(45

[M302_Imola]

We can debate until we are all blue in the face on this topic, but bottom line fasted state cardio works for me and many other body builders. Body building is all trial and error anyways so try it out and see what works best for you!

[FireGuy]

We can debate until we are all blue in the face on this topic, but bottom line fasted state cardio works for me and many other body builders. Body building is all trial and error anyways so try it out and see what works best for you!

Good point, that's almost always the answer. It's threads like these that make the board so good. I honestly love a good debate and hearing other peoples opinions. I have had people change my mind on a topic more than a few times. This isnt one of those times but I do like hearing other peoples thoughts and rationales.

[Swifto]

Good point, that's almost always the answer. It's threads like these that make the board so good. I honestly love a good debate and hearing other peoples opinions. I have had people change my mind on a topic more than a few times. This isnt one of those times but I do like hearing other peoples thoughts and rationales.

Same here. Thats why these boards are excellent and uptodate.

I may try fasted cardio when my knee is back working 100%. What kind of length and HR do you guys aim for? I'm assuming this differs from age groups?

[M302_Imola]

I may try fasted cardio when my knee is back working 100%. What kind of length and HR do you guys aim for? I'm assuming this differs from age groups?

I try to keep my duration right at 30 min and stay around 65% MHR. I also consume about 10g of BCAA's and 200mg cafeine right before I start the cardio.

[Swifto]

I try to keep my duration right at 30 min and stay around 65% MHR. I also consume about 10g of BCAA's and 200mg cafeine right before I start the cardio.

Thanks mate.

If cortisol is high (AM) why would you then take caffiene and increase it further?

[RED26]

Same here, I try to remain on the 65% mark of my MHR. The amount of time depends on my current goal, but I've done it from 20min to 50min. (And this also depends if I'm on steroids or not)

[RED26]

If cortisol is high (AM) why would you then take caffiene and increase it further?

Caffeine increases cortisol?
Either way... Caffeine also helps with the movilization of fatty acids to be burned as energy.

[jbran23]

Same here, I try to remain on the 65% mark of my MHR. The amount of time depends on my current goal, but I've done it from 20min to 50min. (And this also depends if I'm on steroids or not)

So what would you suggest for time and duration for a person off cycle looking to lose 5-10 pounds of fat and maintain maximum muscle mass?

[jbran23]

Also I put my info into calculator and to get myself into my fat burning zone (60-70% mhr) I need to have my heart rate at 143-155 beats per minute. Does that sound right? Seems high to me.

[RED26]

So what would you suggest for time and duration for a person off cycle looking to lose 5-10 pounds of fat and maintain maximum muscle mass?

First, I would recommend CLEN . Clenbuterol can act as anti-catabolic too, at some degree. (And of course... beacuse of it's fat loss properties)
Then, Glutamine troughtout the day. 20g total ED;
5g with breakfast
5g with pre-workout meal
5g with post-workout meal
5g with pre-bed meal.

And start with 20min first thing in the morning with empty stomach. (NOTE that on that 20min I'm not counting warm-up and cool-down)

Now, depending on how yo react to that after 2 weeks, according to body measurements, BF% and weight progress, one should start programming the course you're going to take. (Maybe more cardio, maybe more protein in your diet, maybe less carbs, maybe less cardio... One never knows, each person reacts differently)

And keep monitoring that factors every 2 weeks to make proper adjustments.

[RED26]

Also I put my info into calculator and to get myself into my fat burning zone (60-70% mhr) I need to have my heart rate at 143-155 beats per minute. Does that sound right? Seems high to me.

Actually, it depends on your age and your aerobic conditioning.

[FireGuy]

First, I would recommend CLEN . Clenbuterol can act as anti-catabolic too, at some degree. (And of course... beacuse of it's fat loss properties)
Then, Glutamine troughtout the day. 20g total ED;
5g with breakfast
5g with pre-workout meal
5g with post-workout meal
5g with pre-bed meal.

And start with 20min first thing in the morning with empty stomach. (NOTE that on that 20min I'm not counting warm-up and cool-down)

Now, depending on how yo react to that after 2 weeks, according to body measurements, BF% and weight progress, one should start programming the course you're going to take. (Maybe more cardio, maybe more protein in your diet, maybe less carbs, maybe less cardio... One never knows, each person reacts differently)

And keep monitoring that factors every 2 weeks to make proper adjustments.

The guy wants to drop 5-10lbs and he needs Clen? Unless he is sitting under 8% bodyfat and just cant get much lower I think this is bad advice. A properly set up diet and cardio program should enable him to reach this goal 4-6 at the very longest. I also dont see a need to do a warm up or cool period for light intensity cardio in the morning either.

[jbran23]

Actually, it depends on your age and your aerobic conditioning.

I input my age (30) and my resting heart rate (73) and thats the number it spit out. Does the 143-155 beats per minute range seem about right to you guys?

[FireGuy]

That may be a bit high for some peoples taste. In the last year I have upped my cardio intensity from 120bpm to around 140 and have got much better results with no loss of lean mass.

[jbran23]

That may be a bit high for some peoples taste. In the last year I have upped my cardio intensity from 120bpm to around 140 and have got much better results with no loss of lean mass.

Alright thanks. I just wanted to double check. I used a different equation awhile back and it came back in the 120's so when I saw the 140-150 range I was a little surprised. I might try around 135 or so to see if it speeds things up. 145-150 doesnt feel like "low" intensity cardio to me.

[jbran23]

Fireguy, how do you feel about mixing in intervals of moderate to high intensity cardio into your low intensity sessions? I have heard people say this can be more effective.

[FireGuy]

I just started doing this during my PWO cardio session. 1 minute low followed by 1 minute high. It has been very effective so far and the time seems to go by quicky as well. My plan is to use this method up until at least 4-6 weeks from the show. Normally I would add in additional minutes each week but I think this method is going to allow me to keep my 2nd session at 30 minutes, at least for the time being.

[jbran23]

I tried this a little bit tonight but I have a problem where when I run my shins start to hurt like crazy. Almost like a muscle pump but very painful. Gonna try stretching a little bit next time to see if it helps any.

[RED26]

The guy wants to drop 5-10lbs and he needs Clen? Unless he is sitting under 8% bodyfat and just cant get much lower I think this is bad advice. A properly set up diet and cardio program should enable him to reach this goal 4-6 at the very longest. I also dont see a need to do a warm up or cool period for light intensity cardio in the morning either.

That's just about preferences. You want to see results after 6 weeks, or after 3???
Why would someone want to do the same thing for a longer period of time, if you can do it faster? And that's 3 weeks LESS of dieting, waking up 1 hour earlier to do cardio (A pain in the 4ss) and less sacrifice in general.
And clen is very mild... So what's the problem.

[FireGuy]

That's just about preferences. You want to see results after 6 weeks, or after 3???
Why would someone want to do the same thing for a longer period of time, if you can do it faster? And that's 3 weeks LESS of dieting, waking up 1 hour earlier to do cardio (A pain in the 4ss) and less sacrifice in general.
And clen is very mild... So what's the problem.

This entire mindset is the problem in my opinion. You are advising someone to take a drug over putting in a little bit of work to acheive the same results albeit maybe 2-3 weeks longer. Getting into the best shape of your life and reaching your goals is all about hard work and sacrifice. People who wish to avoid either of these usually dont last long in this type of endeavor. Also consider the reason this individual needs to drop 5-10 lbs is due to improper diet and/or not enough cardio. So you can address the symptom with a drug or address the problem with altering his diet and cardio regime. By simpling giving him a drug for 3-4 weeks he will quickly return to his previous state once usage is ceased.
Also, I would disagree with your assessemt that clen is mild. It can cause some major issues for some people and definately not needed in this case whatsoever. Clen=Bad for the heart, Cardio=Good for the heart as well.

[RED26]

This entire mindset is the problem in my opinion. You are advising someone to take a drug over putting in a little bit of work to acheive the same results albeit maybe 2-3 weeks longer. Getting into the best shape of your life and reaching your goals is all about hard work and sacrifice. People who wish to avoid either of these usually dont last long in this type of endeavor. Also consider the reason this individual needs to drop 5-10 lbs is due to improper diet and/or not enough cardio. So you can address the symptom with a drug or address the problem with altering his diet and cardio regime. By simpling giving him a drug for 3-4 weeks he will quickly return to his previous state once usage is ceased.
Also, I would disagree with your assessemt that clen is mild. It can cause some major issues for some people and definately not needed in this case whatsoever. Clen=Bad for the heart, Cardio=Good for the heart as well.

The people I advice NEVER return to the same habits. And they keep the level of conditioning they obtained. They only keep getting better and better from that point. It's easier to keep following such a strict regimen like the one we bodybuilders have if you already look great, and not thinking "I'm busting my ass everyday and I still look the same"

Whoever works with me, gets a promise of seeing results fast, and then just continue making improvements. There's a time to go natural, there's a time to use a little "aid" and even there may or may not come the time to use AAS.

If a person gets to see his abs, It will make him more more motivated to keep his current body shape, and even try to improve with every day. Otherwise, if keeps looking chubby, soft... smooth, and after 6 or 8 weeks he FINALLY see results, the only thing he's going to think is that this type of life is the worst self-torture there is. And he'll then return to poor habits and to his original condition.

Meaning = Too much effort, too much time, too much sacrifice for so little results, and those results that can be lost so easily?
I've been talking with a lot of clients about this, and I've come to a point where I understand them.
I can be VERY patient, and moderate myself (For example, by using clen +T3 instead of DNP )
But most people can't, because they have already tried a lot of things, and followed a lot of wrong advice... So let's do them that favor, and then form certain point where they feel satisfied and happy with a very different body, go gradually to a better physique everytime, one step at the time.

[FireGuy]

The people I advice NEVER return to the same habits. And they keep the level of conditioning they obtained. They only keep getting better and better from that point. It's easier to keep following such a strict regimen like the one we bodybuilders have if you already look great, and not thinking "I'm busting my ass everyday and I still look the same" If they are busting thier ass and there diet is correct they shouldnt be looking the same way.

Whoever works with me, gets a promise of seeing results fast, and then just continue making improvements. There's a time to go natural, there's a time to use a little "aid" and even there may or may not come the time to use AAS. I agree with you on this point. But...someone wanting to lose 5-10lbs falls into the former part of this statement not the latter. Hence our disagreement.

If a person gets to see his abs, It will make him more more motivated to keep his current body shape, and even try to improve with every day. Otherwise, if keeps looking chubby, soft... smooth, and after 6 or 8 weeks he FINALLY see results, the only thing he's going to think is that this type of life is the worst self-torture there is. And he'll then return to poor habits and to his original condition. Again, you are saying having to work for 6-8 weeks to get results is self torture? I call it discipline.

Meaning = Too much effort, too much time, too much sacrifice for so little results, and those results that can be lost so easily?
I've been talking with a lot of clients about this, and I've come to a point where I understand them.
I can be VERY patient, and moderate myself (For example, by using clen +T3 instead of DNP )
But most people can't, because they have already tried a lot of things, and followed a lot of wrong advice... So let's do them that favor, and then form certain point where they feel satisfied and happy with a very different body, go gradually to a better physique everytime, one step at the time.

We obviously see this sport from opposing views. Not saying mine is right and yours is wrong. We will just have to respectfully agree to disagree.

[LiftedDuramax2007]

good info thread

[RED26]

We obviously see this sport from opposing views. Not saying mine is right and yours is wrong. We will just have to respectfully agree to disagree.

I felt it going to that point, yeah... Well, in that I agree haha
Although I like the argument

[FireGuy]

No argument here, only a good debate.

[RED26]

No argument here, only a good debate.

Yeah, that's what I meant.
(Sometimes my terminologies get mixed)