SCIENCE/SPACE/TIME - a meeting of the minds!

[Bio-boosted]

Smart bunch of meatheads you guys are lol. Very intriguing info. Wish Johan was still around with his infinite wisdom.

Gym rats are above average intelligence, a study was done on IQ between BBers and civilians (lol) and we came out on top. I have a link buried somewhere, i'll try find it, If i remember the conclusion was that BBers tended to read and educate themselves a little more on average.
If anyone says any different, then knock their ****ing teeth out with a heavy encyclopedia lmao!

[Flagg]

so this now BEGS the question... Do you think we are being visited by other alien races?
I say YES 100%

There's a couple of things I want to add to this.

Is there alien life out there? Undoubtedbly yes.
Have we been visited by them? Im not sure...

And the reason for this is theory known as the Rare Earth Hypothesis. It's a criteria so to speak on how our planet can support life. It outlines numerous things on our unique planetry system, our distance to the Sun, our one moon...it even goes to state that Jupitor in essence acts as a massive shield that protects us from meteorites and comets that enter our solar system. Now I believe for a planet to be able to support any sort of life, intelligent or not, would need a planet with very similiar properties to ours. Now apparantly there is 100 billion stars in our milky way. Now as unique as the formation of our planet is, by doing some math it's predicted that potentially could be just over a million earth like planets in the galaxy. That sounds great but you have to remember how big our galaxy is. And then you have to take into account how many of those earth like planets will have a species that rise to power, discover science and master technology. I would say the distance between planets with sentient life is really vast so unless FTL speed is possible, or there are other ways to cross huge distances in an instant, im a little unsure if we have been visited in our little pocket of the Galaxy.

[Bio-boosted]

I like the idea of cosmic "seeding", whereby organic compounds reach habitable planets via comets etc. And before anyone says they'd burn up, they're meant to hit the planet before a heavy atmosphere has developed.
Begs the question, where did they originate mind.

[Hazard]

They are Tachyons. They are a faster than light particle that tends to pop up in string theory. Bizzarely they travel in the 4th dimension (space-time) so if you were to stand in its path you'd never see it coming, but shortly aferwards you'd see an image of it moving away from you, back along the path it'd come along AND a mirror image of it moving to follow the Tachyon. The particle has 'arrived' before the light! I have no idea why an image of it moves backwards, but i think it's got summit to do with faster than light (FTL) objects appearing to an outside observer as moving backwards in time... Odd eh lol.
If I read right, there is as much evidence for them as there is against, so the jury's still out so to speak.

thanks bio! I couldn't remember their name for the life of me..... I'm loving this thread more and mroe everyday LOL

~Haz~

[Hazard]

Another thing i'll bring up..... and this isn't really "space" involved..... well i guess it could be......

Perpetual motion machines....... In other words..... a machine that creates it's own energy and uses it as fuel. This has been thought about since leonardo divinci..... it's captivated scientists...... the US Patent office has stopped granting patents for perpetual motion machines because none of them work. To this day.... there have been hundreds of thousands of designs and no working models.

According to Dr. Michio Kaku..... a type 3 civilization MAY have the capability to create one. It's one of the only things thats unlikely to happen for us ever...... time travel is even expected to happen WAAAAYYYYYY before we can develope a perpetual motion machine......


Crazyness!
~Haz~

[Flagg]

I like the idea of cosmic "seeding", whereby organic compounds reach habitable planets via comets etc. And before anyone says they'd burn up, they're meant to hit the planet before a heavy atmosphere has developed.
Begs the question, where did they originate mind.

Of course organisms and microbes on comets hitch hiking a ride through space could survive re-entry. Has no one ever heard of Extremophiles? These are organisms that can surivive in under water vents at 350 degree celcius, under massive pressure and with no light (they get their energy by using chemosynthesis). I've heard many time that people that a comet once brought the first cyanobacteria to Earth but that isn't necessarily true. Pressure plays a huge part in creating new elements and it's completely feasible that pressure and heat created the first cyanobacteria (which also explains how these organisms created our atmosphere).

Edit: It's been theorised that there could be Extremophiles living beneath the surface of some of Jupitors moons due to the volcanic activity or even Mars. Life doesn't always need light to survive. Extremophiles work via this chemical equation:

Co2 + H2S = [CH2O] + S

Bacteria converts H2S to Sulphur (S), using H2 and energy released to reduce Co2. No Light is required. Bi-Product is Sulphur instead of Oxygen. In otherwords, any organisms that would naturally photosynthesise by taking in CO2 and transpirating O2 would instead transpire Sulphur. Our Solar system could already be teaming with life, on a microbilogical scale, but just goes to show that life could literally exist anywhere in the Universe.

[Flagg]

Another thing i'll bring up..... and this isn't really "space" involved..... well i guess it could be......

Perpetual motion machines....... In other words..... a machine that creates it's own energy and uses it as fuel. This has been thought about since leonardo divinci..... it's captivated scientists...... the US Patent office has stopped granting patents for perpetual motion machines because none of them work. To this day.... there have been hundreds of thousands of designs and no working models.

According to Dr. Michio Kaku..... a type 3 civilization MAY have the capability to create one. It's one of the only things thats unlikely to happen for us ever...... time travel is even expected to happen WAAAAYYYYYY before we can develope a perpetual motion machine......


Crazyness!
~Haz~

It's kinda cool using Star Trek as an example of what we could do in the future. For example, egg heads think it is much more likely to create warp drive WAAAAAY before it's even possible to think about transporting someone from one location to another. Scientists think it would take tremendous technology to transport someone, that is to dismemeber someone down to the DNA and atomic level and reconstruct them in the exact order they were in previously, to another location.

[Hazard]

It's kinda cool using Star Trek as an example of what we could do in the future. For example, egg heads think it is much more likely to create warp drive WAAAAAY before it's even possible to think about transporting someone from one location to another. Scientists think it would take tremendous technology to transport someone, that is to dismemeber someone down to the DNA and atomic level and reconstruct them in the exact order they were in previously, to another location.

LOL THAT would be sick..... willie wonka and wonka vision LOL!

I saw on a science program that if you made a "race course" in space..... and began running...... and "folded" the race course (space) and went faster than you previously were..... you could return to the finish (original start point) in time to see yourself start the race LOL.

~Haz~

[Hazard]

What's really cool is the fact that most of what we're talking about requires A LOT of energy...... It's quite staggering actually. Look at things like this...... if someone theorized to galileo that we'll be wlaking on the moon..... most people on earth would have laughed and then he would have been stoned LMAO. If you told someone even in the 1800's that one day we'll be able to create something thats 7 times HOTTER than the surface of the sun and find a way to keep it from melting everything...... you would have been burned at the stake LOL!

We have done these things...... we've not only accomplished them.... but have already surpassed them. Every single day our knowledge grows...... our capabilities and technology grow..... Is it really that far fetched that one day we will travel the speed of light..... or time travel? Nah...... i don't think so at all..... and i think it's going to happen wayyy sooner than the majority of us think it will......

~Haz~

[Necrosaro]

Finally I have found people who think this stuff is interesting. Great posts and videos

[jfalco]

we can just use wind or solar....

what the world needs is a good plague to thin the herd.. the demands of power will be reduced.. and no need to continue development on a new source of energy..

Sad but true.

[jfalco]

Does anyone believe that Faster Than Light is possible? The theory being that an objects mass increases massively the faster it goes, hence it would be impossible to go faster than light because you would cease to exist and the theory that you would occupy all of space all at once.

I kind of like the Star Trek way of thinking, that light can be exceeded and that they have ships surrounded by a "warp field" that prevents the ship being ****** apart. I just think that if we can't travel faster than light, it's going to be very hard to do any sort of space exploration in the future.

I don't know about moving faster than the speed of light. It seems more possible that to instantaneously transport from one place to another, w/o traveling across the distance in between by folding space/time. I have trouble believing a human could survive this sort of thing.

[Necrosaro]

Ever watch "Timeline" had an interesting point in that but doesn't seem like it could work properly.

[J.S.N.]

exactly.

and this is why I'm amazed that Euclidean geometry is still being taught in our schools! It's based on premises that don't even make sense anymore. But, hey, let's teach it to the kiddo's anyway.

well classical mechanics doesn't "make sense" anymore either, but like euclidean geometry, it's useful for many applications, and it serves as a starting point for more advanced studies.

euclidean geometry is an important starting point for students because it serves as a basis for studying trig and cartesian algebra, which you need to learn calc and so on. so while euclidean geometry is not so great for for spacial analysis in certain applications, it can be used to great effect for many lesser applications. hell, it has some interesting applications in particle dynamics even without even employing vectors.

[Flagg]

What's really cool is the fact that most of what we're talking about requires A LOT of energy...... It's quite staggering actually. Look at things like this...... if someone theorized to galileo that we'll be wlaking on the moon..... most people on earth would have laughed and then he would have been stoned LMAO. If you told someone even in the 1800's that one day we'll be able to create something thats 7 times HOTTER than the surface of the sun and find a way to keep it from melting everything...... you would have been burned at the stake LOL!

We have done these things...... we've not only accomplished them.... but have already surpassed them. Every single day our knowledge grows...... our capabilities and technology grow..... Is it really that far fetched that one day we will travel the speed of light..... or time travel? Nah...... i don't think so at all..... and i think it's going to happen wayyy sooner than the majority of us think it will......

~Haz~

Well theoretically. the material needed to make something like a faster than light engine or a transporter is already there in the Periodic Table. It's a matter of figuring out where it is and what conditions are required to make such things. If every person on the planet was a materials chemist it would take us about a thousand years to find and make everything we wanted. From the 115 elements available, theres 115 atoms available which leads to hundereds of thousands of possible molecules/substances being created.

[Matt]

What's really cool is the fact that most of what we're talking about requires A LOT of energy...... It's quite staggering actually. Look at things like this...... if someone theorized to galileo that we'll be wlaking on the moon..... most people on earth would have laughed and then he would have been stoned LMAO. If you told someone even in the 1800's that one day we'll be able to create something thats 7 times HOTTER than the surface of the sun and find a way to keep it from melting everything...... you would have been burned at the stake LOL!

We have done these things...... we've not only accomplished them.... but have already surpassed them. Every single day our knowledge grows...... our capabilities and technology grow..... Is it really that far fetched that one day we will travel the speed of light..... or time travel? Nah...... i don't think so at all..... and i think it's going to happen wayyy sooner than the majority of us think it will......

~Haz~

All very interesting, however its a shame we wont be here to see it...

[Flagg]

Im giving this thread a WELL DESERVED BUMP because of this little interesting article I found.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...ef=online-news

Summary:
1: Use a radio frequency emitter to heat argon gas until it ionizes (i.e. the electrons boil off), creating a plasma.
2: (The new bit that advances it beyond the ion engine that's deployed now on some probes) Use further radio frequency energy injections to heat the plasma to about a million degrees.
3: Use magnetic fields to channel the superheated plasma out the back, generating thrust in the other direction. There's little wear and tear because the ions don't touch the structure.
4: Keep the process running for the whole trip, not just for a burst at the beginning and the end. It's less thrust than chemical rockets give, and it won't break Earth's gravity so can't be launched from the surface, but it's constant.

In a nutshell, this is technology that will greatly enhance the speed of space ships. With current propulsion systems it would take 6 months to reach Mars. With this new technology, Mars could be reached in 39 days.

Apparantly Armstrong and Buzz are all for this, claiming that it was harder to reach the Moon 40 years ago than it would be today to reach Mars. It's all fine having robots on Mars, but robots bore people. It would be incredible to have man on Mars and I really hope a new Space Race starts. If this technology works, we could conduct many missions to Mars, potentially build a base, prehaps start early colonisation. Between Mars and Jupitor is a huge asteroid belt. That potentially has TONS OF RESOURCES and this new tech could enable us to reach areas of our solar system in much less time than previously calculated.

[Matt]

One of the best threads in the lounge lol...

[energizer bunny]

Im giving this thread a WELL DESERVED BUMP because of this little interesting article I found.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...ef=online-news

Summary:
1: Use a radio frequency emitter to heat argon gas until it ionizes (i.e. the electrons boil off), creating a plasma.
2: (The new bit that advances it beyond the ion engine that's deployed now on some probes) Use further radio frequency energy injections to heat the plasma to about a million degrees.
3: Use magnetic fields to channel the superheated plasma out the back, generating thrust in the other direction. There's little wear and tear because the ions don't touch the structure.
4: Keep the process running for the whole trip, not just for a burst at the beginning and the end. It's less thrust than chemical rockets give, and it won't break Earth's gravity so can't be launched from the surface, but it's constant.

In a nutshell, this is technology that will greatly enhance the speed of space ships. With current propulsion systems it would take 6 months to reach Mars. With this new technology, Mars could be reached in 39 days.

Apparantly Armstrong and Buzz are all for this, claiming that it was harder to reach the Moon 40 years ago than it would be today to reach Mars. It's all fine having robots on Mars, but robots bore people. It would be incredible to have man on Mars and I really hope a new Space Race starts. If this technology works, we could conduct many missions to Mars, potentially build a base, prehaps start early colonisation. Between Mars and Jupitor is a huge asteroid belt. That potentially has TONS OF RESOURCES and this new tech could enable us to reach areas of our solar system in much less time than previously calculated.

Very interesting......

[Hazard]

Im giving this thread a WELL DESERVED BUMP because of this little interesting article I found.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...ef=online-news

Summary:
1: Use a radio frequency emitter to heat argon gas until it ionizes (i.e. the electrons boil off), creating a plasma.
2: (The new bit that advances it beyond the ion engine that's deployed now on some probes) Use further radio frequency energy injections to heat the plasma to about a million degrees.
3: Use magnetic fields to channel the superheated plasma out the back, generating thrust in the other direction. There's little wear and tear because the ions don't touch the structure.
4: Keep the process running for the whole trip, not just for a burst at the beginning and the end. It's less thrust than chemical rockets give, and it won't break Earth's gravity so can't be launched from the surface, but it's constant.

In a nutshell, this is technology that will greatly enhance the speed of space ships. With current propulsion systems it would take 6 months to reach Mars. With this new technology, Mars could be reached in 39 days.

Apparantly Armstrong and Buzz are all for this, claiming that it was harder to reach the Moon 40 years ago than it would be today to reach Mars. It's all fine having robots on Mars, but robots bore people. It would be incredible to have man on Mars and I really hope a new Space Race starts. If this technology works, we could conduct many missions to Mars, potentially build a base, prehaps start early colonisation. Between Mars and Jupitor is a huge asteroid belt. That potentially has TONS OF RESOURCES and this new tech could enable us to reach areas of our solar system in much less time than previously calculated.

thats awesome..... very interesting. i think they said we were planning on sending someone to mars between 2020 and 2030.... i wish it would be sooner.

~Haz~

[Hazard]

One of the best threads in the lounge lol...

This means soooooo much comming from you

~Haz~

[seriousmass]

First off... I want to say, Hazard you're absolutely g'd for making this thread! lol. I'm also really interested in physics, and research it constantly. I'm actually considering finishing my currently degree in Economics; and then going back to school to get another degree in Particle-Psychics (very interesting field for anyone who enjoys "theoretical" concepts.)

Anyways, for the rest of you... view this (hopefully not a repost)... it is a very simplified little diagram; however, it has some amazing implications about our universe.

http://naurunappula.com/z/353424

[Matt]

First off... I want to say, Hazard you're absolutely g'd for making this thread! lol. I'm also really interested in physics, and research it constantly. I'm actually considering finishing my currently degree in Economics; and then going back to school to get another degree in Particle-Psychics (very interesting field for anyone who enjoys "theoretical" concepts.)

Anyways, for the rest of you... view this (hopefully not a repost)... it is a very simplified little diagram; however, it has some amazing implications about our universe.

http://naurunappula.com/z/353424

Yeah thats been posted before, but boy it blows the mind...

[seriousmass]

Yeah thats been posted before, but boy it blows the mind...

Damn.. too bad..

But yah.. this is the part that really makes me think..

"the large galaxy here contains 8 times as many stars as our Milky Way Galaxy. It is so large, it technically shouldn't exist according to current physics theories" --- LOL!!! all I think when I read that is "WTF". haha.

[Flagg]

First off... I want to say, Hazard you're absolutely g'd for making this thread! lol. I'm also really interested in physics, and research it constantly. I'm actually considering finishing my currently degree in Economics; and then going back to school to get another degree in Particle-Psychics (very interesting field for anyone who enjoys "theoretical" concepts.)

Anyways, for the rest of you... view this (hopefully not a repost)... it is a very simplified little diagram; however, it has some amazing implications about our universe.

http://naurunappula.com/z/353424

It's incalculable to even comprehend the size of our Universe. I'm not sure it it is infinite..I don't think infinity can exist personally, but the last two pictures of Galaxies dwarving our own, of such a size to defy the laws of physics truly defies the human mind as well. For this was but one small segment of our sky, what of the rest mapped?

Looking at Stars in the sky you are actually looking backward in time. We may never have the time or the technology to explore the Universe but wouldn't it be something if we could invent a telescope that truly see into the farthest reaches in Space. I sometimes wonder if there is somewhere in space where we can witness the Big Bang happening.

[seriousmass]

I don't think infinity can exist personally, but the last two pictures of Galaxies dwarving our own, of such a size to defy the laws of physics truly defies the human mind as well.


Well said bro! I completely agree; once you read that you have to literally take a step back and reflect. I mean honestly, it's almost considered a fact that there is no forms of "life" within our universe. But there are BILLIONS of universes in the solar system (something many do not realize)...

IMO how could there possibly be NO life in any of those universes, and only on the planet Earth, of the Milky Way.

There is definitely other forms of life out there... IMO they are just hundreds of billions of space years away from us.

Looking at Stars in the sky you are actually looking backward in time. We may never have the time or the technology to explore the Universe but wouldn't it be something if we could invent a telescope that truly see into the farthest reaches in Space. I sometimes wonder if there is somewhere in space where we can witness the Big Bang happening.

^^ bro, you think just like i do. LOL

[Matt]

I think it makes it easier to agree that theres life out there when you accept that that life may look nothing like us.

When we talk about life out there people think of human life, which in turn makes it harder to believe...

I do agree, theres got to be something, theres no possible way were alone..

[Hazard]

The hubble telescope has taken pictures (very grainy ones tho) of the furthest galaxy's from our own. They are replacing hubble with a new telescope that has more instruments and is waaayyyy more powerful. We should get some awesome pictures from this thing.....

I definately believe there is life out there..... i'm not even sure i'd rule out life in our "universe" - i mean..... yeah we've been searching with no luck so far..... but our universe is HUGE..... and compared to how old it is to our existance..... we havn't been searching for life very long at all.....

I really wish i was this "into" physics in highschool..... I would have gone to college for this stuff. All I can do is research on my own and learn to satisfy my own curiosity.....

~Haz~

[Matt]

If anyone has any good links to articles of sites that write or talk about this stuff then post them up guy's...

[Lemonada8]

i dont think this topic has been touched yet.. but what about one who travels at the speed of light will not age compared to someone who is on earth?
this seems kinda odd... IMO i think our perception of time is associated with light and its speed... we cannot precieve time except the light that enters our eyes, so one who travels at the speed of light wouldnt see any change in themselves but would infact age but we wouldnt be able to notice it...

unless time as been proven scientifically/ theoricically (sp) to be associated with light particles i think its all about perception and that you can only percieve time as it comes to you...

as for the space travel, i could easily see the universe as a giant 'aqueous blob' in that its ever moving and changing shape...

[Matt]

^^^ I watched something on this the other day, they were saying that if you lived your life on top of a very tall building time would go slower than if you lived on the ground floor..

The only problem was, you would need to live there for 100 years to gain a millionth of a second...

[Flagg]

I think it makes it easier to agree that theres life out there when you accept that that life may look nothing like us.

When we talk about life out there people think of human life, which in turn makes it harder to believe...

I do agree, theres got to be something, theres no possible way were alone..

I agree that there must be other life out there, even if the odds of life occuring have to be exactly the same as ours with regards to distance from the star, size, having a gas giant like Jupiter acting as a shield against asteroid impacts, that would still mean that at least 10's of millions of other Earth like planets have to exist.

The only problem however, is if the speed of light cannot be exceeded, then we are all too far apart from one another.

And thanks for the recognition SeriousMass. I think i've always had a keen scientific mind, as I think more people should, especially the younger generation. And if missions to Mars and One Way space exploration missions into deep space can encourage that way of thinking, then so much the better.

[Matt]

Ive never been able to get my head round this, "we cant travel faster than the speed of light", its just doesnt make any sense to me...

[energizer bunny]

Its amazing to see how small we really are..........i to enjoy reading about space/time and other related subjects..everytime i sit back and think about space it blows me away...them pics are great....

[G4R]

Ive never been able to get my head round this, "we cant travel faster than the speed of light", its just doesnt make any sense to me...

I have to agree. I could never understand what limits us to the speed of light as a max. But it does make the Einstein-Rosen Bridge (wormholes) more interesting. I guess we would have to assume that instead of the quickest way between two points is a straight line (like on a piece of paper), if we stoped looking at our universe as a flat plane, and imagine it is or can be "folded", then the speed of light would no longer be a goal, but something we could bypass alltogether.

[Flagg]

If the speed of light cannot be exceeded, there could be other ways to traverse massive distances quickly.

Going4ripped makes a good point on how we go about things like walking over a surface. Imagine there is a worm and an ant sitting on the very top of an apple. Both want to get to the southern tip of the apple so the ant starts walking over the surface. The worm can take a massive shortcut by simply boring straight down and coming out down the bottom. He has travelled less distance to reach the same destination and will reach that destination sooner than the ant, of course taking into account that the worm bores at the same speed as the ant walks. Prehaps there are pockets in space that will allow us to do this, or prehaps technology in the future will allow us to make artificial holes in space.

[seriousmass]

If the speed of light cannot be exceeded, there could be other ways to traverse massive distances quickly.

Going4ripped makes a good point on how we go about things like walking over a surface. Imagine there is a worm and an ant sitting on the very top of an apple. Both want to get to the southern tip of the apple so the ant starts walking over the surface. The worm can take a massive shortcut by simply boring straight down and coming out down the bottom. He has travelled less distance to reach the same destination and will reach that destination sooner than the ant, of course taking into account that the worm bores at the same speed as the ant walks. Prehaps there are pockets in space that will allow us to do this, or prehaps technology in the future will allow us to make artificial holes in space.

Yep! You hit the nail on the head.

Basically, scientists belief that PERHAPS, it is possible to essentially create a rift in space (for means of travel).

Moreover, I've read that scientists are exploring the concept of using black-holes to speed up travel... (I realize people are probably reading this going.. "WTF... a black-hole!! how the HELL will that help"... well the thing is, that because there is NO energy around a black-hole scientists believe their must be a stockpile of energy at some point (and at that point of energy-concentration, even the speed of light is FASTER then humanly conceivable.)

^^ hopefully that's all correct, I'm doing it from memory. I'll try and dig up the article though. I really want to get this thread going again.

[energizer bunny]

wish i had more knowledgeable input.....but im not very good at physics...so ill just be spectating mostly....

but ill be keeping an eye out for interesting reads.....

[Flagg]

Yep! You hit the nail on the head.

Basically, scientists belief that PERHAPS, it is possible to essentially create a rift in space (for means of travel).

Moreover, I've read that scientists are exploring the concept of using black-holes to speed up travel... (I realize people are probably reading this going.. "WTF... a black-hole!! how the HELL will that help"... well the thing is, that because there is NO energy around a black-hole scientists believe their must be a stockpile of energy at some point (and at that point of energy-concentration, eventhe speed of light is FASTER then humanly conceivable.)

^^ hopefully that's all correct, I'm doing it from memory. I'll try and dig up the article though. I really want to get this thread going again.

Well I hope so cause if there are no Worm Holes and the speed of light cant be exceeded, then the Human race isn't ever going to do much beyond the solar system. Im still confident of a city on the Moon and Mars in the distant future.

wish i had more knowledgeable input.....but im not very good at physics...so ill just be spectating mostly....

but ill be keeping an eye out for interesting reads.....

I cant speak for anyone else, but my physics isnt that great, its a hard subject for anyone to master. There used to be a guy here called Johan who would have been better suited to answering physics questions as he was a Nuclear Physicist.

[energizer bunny]

^^LOL ive just comented on him in another thread were you mentioned his name...yeah he knew his shit..