SCIENCE/SPACE/TIME - a meeting of the minds!

[Shol'va]

where is Mr. Rose when we need him.... That man is a walking Einstein. When he starts rattling out that the sum of the square root of an isosoleze triangle is equal to the sum of the square root of it's remaining sides, and goes into theories on doppler shift and M-theory he gets my attention fast...

[Times Roman]

The universe is finite yet unbounded. And antimatter was not discovered in 2009.

Jeez, did all the science people leave this site or something? :sadface:

Theory, not fact.

[Flagg]

I've often thought that infinity is a loop that feeds back in on itself. People wonder how big the Universe, but I ask how small is it? We used to think Atoms were the smallest things, then we discovered tachyons, quarks. But what are those made of? What are the things that make those up, made of? And so on and so on.

This equation shows how even something random, and chaotic, is nothing more than many shapes, feeding back on themselves.

[Times Roman]

I've often thought that infinity is a loop that feeds back in on itself. People wonder how big the Universe, but I ask how small is it? We used to think Atoms were the smallest things, then we discovered tachyons, quarks. But what are those made of? What are the things that make those up, made of? And so on and so on.

This equation shows how even something random, and chaotic, is nothing more than many shapes, feeding back on themselves.

Wrong answer Gomer! Tachyons are "theoritical" particles that are FTL (faster than light). Since they move backwards in time (look it up), then they could not have originated with the theoritical "bang" but instead the theoritical "crunch". and if not the crunch, then they were somehow propigated in the future. this is all debateable, and you get different "answsers" depending on which egg head you talk to.

just one theory. another is that they did originate with the "bang" but the crickets start chirping when the subject of moving backwards in time comes up.

another theory is that although FTL, causality is not violated, and does NOT move backward in time. The way out of this theoritical mathematical delemma would be to solve the equation with a tachyon having negative mass.

A tachyon has NEVER been discovered, and we are not really sure how to test to see if they even do really exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon

[Times Roman]

see? i do talk about shit other than babes...

we have babes,
and then we talk about this shit
and sometimes motorcycles
and more babes

but I don't think we've really talked abouut babes in a few days?

[Flagg]

I stand corrected on Tachyons, but my point still stands.

Did you watch the video?

[Times Roman]

I stand corrected on Tachyons, but my point still stands.

Did you watch the video?

the bandwidth for our entire project is 2mg up/down.... 13 expats and 30 some odd locals.

and the answer to your question is no. streaming video is a bandwidth hog, and so I don't get to watch much off the internet.

my apologies

[Times Roman]

I stand corrected on Tachyons, but my point still stands.

Did you watch the video?

there has been much discussion about accessing information from the future utilizing tachyons. much has been written about this, but until we actually find one, then, like dark matter, we're still just pissing in the wind.

[Hazard]

If anyone gets a chance..... watch the series called "through the wormhole" with Morgan Freeman. I swear it was developed for this thread lol! Great fvcking show..... you might be able to find some of it on youtube.

~Haz~

[Times Roman]

If anyone gets a chance..... watch the series called "through the wormhole" with Morgan Freeman. I swear it was developed for this thread lol! Great fvcking show..... you might be able to find some of it on youtube.

~Haz~

Haz...

...I watched the show two months from now. Quite good, but I also saw it six months from now, so nothing new.

...How is this possible you say? I subscribe to "WormHole_TV.com"

(it picks up shows that are available in the future, not yet available in the present)

....(btw... I already know who wins next years SuperBowl! Go Raiders!!!)

[MR-FQ320]

A mathmetician calculated the universe to be donut shaped....

Also think of this as a concept for infinity, if you have a bucket full of infinity and added 'one' to it you would still have infinity (not infity plus one if you follow), also if you took 'one' out of a bucketful of infity you still have a bucket full of infinity.

infinity cannot be in a loop because at some point you would return to your start point which is not possible with infinity.

Just thought i would share that with you all.

[Times Roman]

A mathmetician calculated the universe to be donut shaped....Also think of this as a concept for infinity, if you have a bucket full of infinity and added 'one' to it you would still have infinity (not infity plus one if you follow), also if you took 'one' out of a bucketful of infity you still have a bucket full of infinity.

infinity cannot be in a loop because at some point you would return to your start point which is not possible with infinity.

Just thought i would share that with you all.

the amazing thing about math is that you can make it do a number of things. The underpinnings are the assumptions used.

Why would the concept of the universe necessarily be donut shaped?

The real truth about the universe is that we flat out don't know. We have theories, but no real way to test our theories sufficiently.

I get off when a mathematician pontificates as if his utterances were fact.

[Hazard]

The craziest thing to think about is if the universe is Finite...... then whats beyond it? If our univer is a bubble..... or attached to a brain like some theories suggest then there is something byond our universe (the multiverse) - what lays beyond that? At some point is there something thats infinite?

~Haz~

[MR-FQ320]

You know what I think ?

We reckon it started with a big bang, just all these minute particles colliding and collecting and then bang, galaxies upon galaxies, 1000s of suns born in an instant. Then as time goes on the universe is spreading out, well what if that is the beginning of the next big bang, maybe trillions of years after
Everything in existence now has died out.
So we may have a cyclic universe, with more than one big bang. Mind boggling.

[Times Roman]

The craziest thing to think about is if the universe is Finite...... then whats beyond it? If our univer is a bubble..... or attached to a brain like some theories suggest then there is something byond our universe (the multiverse) - what lays beyond that? At some point is there something thats infinite?

~Haz~

if a tree falls in a forest, and no one is around, does it make a sound?

[Flagg]

You know what I think ?

We reckon it started with a big bang, just all these minute particles colliding and collecting and then bang, galaxies upon galaxies, 1000s of suns born in an instant. Then as time goes on the universe is spreading out, well what if that is the beginning of the next big bang, maybe trillions of years after
Everything in existence now has died out.
So we may have a cyclic universe, with more than one big bang. Mind boggling.

The nature of Nature, is cycles. Endless cycles, and I see no reason why the Universe would be no different. A series of Big Bangs and Crunches, occuring over and over again.

[Times Roman]

The nature of Nature, is cycles. Endless cycles, and I see no reason why the Universe would be no different. A series of Big Bangs and Crunches, occuring over and over again.

current theory suggests the universe flies apart, getting bigger and bigger, until the average mass/volume approaches zero, ripping apart even sub atomic particles them selves. Called the big rip

[Hazard]

Big BUMP to the top for more great discussion!

I currently have nothing to add as I'm going to bed lmao.

~Haz~

[Times Roman]

Big BUMP to the top for more great discussion!

I currently have nothing to add as I'm going to bed lmao.

~Haz~

Is this the definition of a "bed bump"?

[EyE]

I remember hearing something about the "bouncy ball effect" which was just an alternate theory to the big bang....Basically, the universe is constantly expanding until it reaches a point where the "fabric" has no more stretch and like a rubber band is gonna start to pull back to the center of the universe until it collides and turns into a singularity before starting over and expanding back outwards, so basically it would be a constant cycle of expanding and contracting.

[frank13]

there is a particle accelerator in switzerland but it cant make antimatter can it i thought antimatter was just theory

[Knockout_Power]

Holy shite, this thread is older than Buttery

[Times Roman]

I remember hearing something about the "bouncy ball effect" which was just an alternate theory to the big bang....Basically, the universe is constantly expanding until it reaches a point where the "fabric" has no more stretch and like a rubber band is gonna start to pull back to the center of the universe until it collides and turns into a singularity before starting over and expanding back outwards, so basically it would be a constant cycle of expanding and contracting.

it's not "bouncy ball" but more like "oscillitating". this fabric you speak of is called GRAVITY, and if there is enough matter in the universe, then it possible to slow down the expansion of the universe. Current thinking is that there is this thing called "DARK MATTER" which exhibits "DARK ENERGY" and instead of an attractive force like gravity, it is a repulsive force. Current thinking by "egg heads" is that the expansion of the universe is accellerating and will lead eventually, in 100+ Billion years or so, to a big rip, where even molecules, atoms, and even quarks are ripped apart by this repulsive force.

there is a particle accelerator in switzerland but it cant make antimatter can it i thought antimatter was just theory

ha ha ha!

I think you've been watching too much Star Trek.

Do you know what anti matter is?

Pretty simple actually.

Know how an electron has a negative charge? Well, all an anti electron is an electron with a positve charge. There are anti protons and a variety of other atomic components that fall into this category as well.

Yes, we can make anti matter....

[Hazard]

Is this the definition of a "bed bump"?

I suppose it is

Somehow I feel worse and more sick today than I did last night.

~Haz~

[ghettoboyd]

if only the worlds scientists could harness the power of the "flux copasater" we could just go back to the beginning and witness the universes creation first hand...how simple is that?...

[Times Roman]

I suppose it is

Somehow I feel worse and more sick today than I did last night.

~Haz~

did you catch the bed bump blues?

[Hazard]

did you catch the bed bump blues?

Nope..... Caught whatever it I my daughter has. Damn Chest congestion..... I also sleep 8-10 hours and feel like I sleep 2.

[Hazard]

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/cu...um-physics.htm

10 Biggest Questions Raised by Quantum Physics
1 of 12next »
By Martha Barksdale

The one thing you can say with any certainty about quantum physics is that there is no certainty about quantum physics. During the first part of the 20th century, physicists and mathematicians turned their minds to the study of the unseen components of our world: atoms, elections and even subatomic particles. While the laws of physics worked reliably in the larger sphere -- a dropped object always falls down, two objects can't occupy the same space at the same time and so on -- these scientists were perplexed to discover that this new physics seemed to be a law unto itself. Physicist Max Planck called the tiny particles of light he was studying quanta, and he came to realize that light isn't a continuous wave, but exists with an arbitrary amount, or quanta, of energy. Thus the term "quantum physics" was born [source: PBS].

The baffling part about quantum physics is that unlike its inflexible forebear, classical physics, the rules keep changing and the results of an experiment or equation can't be predicted. Often, physicists are as shocked by the results as anyone. Sometimes, the theories can't be proved except by imaginary experiments. After more than a century, quantum physics continues to be a source of mystery and amazement.

In this article, we'll take a look at some of the questions most commonly asked about quantum physics. We'll explore some practical applications of this bizarre science and examine some of its more esoteric aspects -- the possibility that the universe exists only in our minds and the search for the "God particle."


Quantum physics, a mysterious science studying the unseen particles that make up our world, raises a lot of tricky questions.
Image Credit: Hemera/Thinkstock

[Hazard]

10. Does anybody really understand quantum physics?
In a word, no. Standard physics is predictable in that everything works the same way, all the time. In the world of standard physics, if you throw a baseball, you know in what direction it will go. In the bizarre world of quantum physics, that ball could wind up anywhere. It could even disappear and reappear again years from now. But while some principles of quantum physics make your head hurt -- parallel universes come to mind -- physicists do understand enough of some principles of quantum physics to come up with some practical applications. It's kind of like operating a car -- you don't have to know how it works mechanically in order to drive to the store.

All of this doesn't mean that there aren't ways to prove the principles of quantum physics. Keep reading to discover the creative methods scientists have developed to explain their theories.

[Hazard]

9. How do you prove what you can't see?
Scientists test theories about things they can't see by coming up with experiments that could show them the result, even if they can't see what's going on during the process. Many times, this must be a hypothetical problem that doesn't really have a solution, but rather serves as an example to help the researchers reason out possible scenarios. Schrodinger's Cat is probably the most famous example, but there are countless others. Some of these "thought experiments" couldn't be carried out when they were developed, but now we have the technology to perform them, and, more often than not, the early theories have proven correct [source: Mayes]. Often, the answer lies in a mathematical equation. Those who work with quantum physics have learned to try all possibilities, even those that seem improbable. Planck discovered the existence of the photon through just such an act of desperation [source: PBS].

[Hazard]

8. How can you be certain about anything that has an "Uncertainty Principal" at its core?
The Uncertainty Principle, which says that more than one aspect of a particle cannot be measured simultaneously, illustrates one of several major differences between quantum physics and classical physics. This idea, first presented by Heisenberg, takes into account that a miniscule bit of material can be either a particle or a wave, depending on the circumstance. Actually, it is neither, until someone looks at it or an experiment forces it to pick sides. This means that a number of qualities aren't defined. If a scientist measures the speed of a particle, for instance, he can't measure position very accurately; it's as though quantifying one aspect puts the other aspects more out of focus. Physicists know this and try to compensate for it in their experiments. Still, the word "uncertainty" is there for a reason. Some physicists say this is not a principle at all and instead prefer to call the concept "uncertainty relations" [source: Hilgevoord and Uffink].

[Hazard]

7. Are we close to proving the theories of Planck, Bohr and Heisenberg?
We can prove Bohr's Copenhagen Interpretation through the Double Slit Experiment, which calls for you to create a wall with two holes in it and another wall behind. Light projected on the front wall will travel through both holes and form a consistent pattern on the back wall. When one particle is shot at the wall, it will create a different pattern. This is exactly what it should do since it can only travel through one hole at a time. But this is only if someone's watching. If no one is observing the particle, the pattern created is the same as if the particle were going through both holes. This is a practical representation of the theoretical Schrodinger's Cat problem.

In another practical proof of the Copenhagen Interpretation, quantum cryptography protects encoded information from hackers by altering the data if someone accesses it [source: Cho].

[Hazard]

6. How exact is the math that determines probability?
Since we've gotten this far with just probabilities and bizarre truths, why would you think the mathematics involved in quantum physics would be normal? Of course it's not. The first mathematics used in quantum physics was based on matrices, or grids of numbers, but just a few weeks after those matrices were published, Schrodinger published his system of wave mathematics. Results for both types of math turned out to be comparable. However, experiments with Bohr in Copenhagen proved that the waves were not continuous. The particles jumped from one quantum state to another, leading Schrodinger to remark, "Had I known that we were not going to get rid of this damned quantum jumping, I never would have involved myself in this business" [source: Oracle ThinkQuest Education Foundation].

A branch of quantum physics called quantum electrodynamics poses another kind of problem as it attempts to explain electromagnetic interaction. When wave mathematics is used, you get an electron with infinite mass and energy. This isn't possible, but there's no way to get rid of the result, so the physicists just settle on an answer they think is correct [source: Oracle ThinkQuest Education Foundation].

[Hazard]

5. How solid is string theory?
String theory, sometimes called "the theory of everything," purports to provide a unified theory of the structure of everything in the universe. In string theory, a particle, instead of being a point, is a string, which can oscillate in many directions. If it oscillates one way, we call it an electron; if it oscillates another way, we say it's a proton. The possibilities are endless [source: Guijosa].

Critics make several arguments against string theory, although few are calling for it to be abandoned entirely. Some people call string theory into question because the string theorists can't make a prediction and then formulate an experiment to prove its validity. Others say that the true science behind string theory has been exaggerated. Some critics have even gone so far as to call the string theorists a cult [source: Jones].


U.S. physicist David Cross speaks at the 2006 International Conference on String Theory in Beijing, China. Scientists from around the world gathered to discuss the mystery of string theory.
Image Credit: China Photos/Getty Images

[Hazard]

4. How can quantum physics concepts be used for good?
Even though quantum physics is still full of surprises, researchers are using some of its concepts to create new technologies that can be used to better the world. That "fasten your seatbelt" light on airplanes may soon be a thing of the past, thanks to quantum turbulence experiments conducted by researchers in Brazil [source: American Institute of Physics]. As we've discussed, quantum cryptography can safeguard data on computers, while quantum computing will help those computers run faster [source: University of California - Santa Barbara].

An aspect of quantum physics called entanglement -- the quantum interconnection of atoms separated by distance -- may help make solar energy more accessible [source: American Institute of Physics]. Scientists have also discovered that algae may use quantum mechanics to store energy in two places at once, perhaps setting an example for how we can use quantum principles even if we don't understand them [source: University of Toronto]. The field of medicine, both traditional and alternative, offers many possibilities for the use of quantum physics concepts, from the identification of cancer cells to promoting healing energies through prayer, something we'll look at later.

[Hazard]

3. How are particle accelerators helping study and control particles?
It seems ironic that the largest and most expensive pieces of scientific equipment are used to study the tiniest and most basic components of the universe. Particle accelerators, sometimes called atom smashers or colliders, push particles to the speed of light and shoot them through a tube into an electric field. Magnetic forces control the paths of the particles, and each eventually collides with a still target or another moving particle. Scientists analyze the wreckage after the collision.

Work with accelerated particles is helping physicists develop a list of the particles that make up the nuclei of atoms. They've already discovered several hundred and say someday this list will be as valuable as the periodic table is to chemistry. Eventually, they hope to get to the heart of the universe by mimicking conditions when the universe was formed. Scientists have learned more about the subatomic world through work with particle accelerators than through any other means [source: Egglescliffe]. The Large Hadron Collider (LHC), the world's largest particle accelerator, is underground below the border between France and Switzerland. The first proton-proton collisions in the LHC took place in 2009. CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research, operates the LHC [source: Achenbach].


This model of the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) is on display at the CERN visitors' center in Geneva-Meyrin, Switzerland. The LHC is the world's largest and most powerful particle accelerator.
Image Credit: Johannes Simon/Getty Images

[Hazard]

2. How do parallel universes work?
Ever wonder what your life would have been like if you'd had the nerve to ask the head cheerleader to the prom? What if you'd majored in business instead of getting an art degree? What would the world be like today if the Axis powers had been victorious in World War II? The answers to all these questions exist in the world of quantum physics. In fact, you're living those lives. In the quantum world, there are no missed opportunities.

While we don't know the technicalities of how parallel universes work, most quantum physicists believe they exist. The parallel universe theory says everything freezes during observation, then splits. Every choice is taken, leading to an infinite number of universes. An experiment reported in the spring of 2010 seems to indicate this. Researchers at the University of California - Santa Barbara isolated a tiny tuning fork, struck it and observed that it moved and stood still at the same time. They say it's proof that observing an object and action splits the universe into two parts -- one we can see and one we can't. Scientists are trying to figure out how to get from the world we will enter into the one we won't [source: Brandon].

[Hazard]

1. What is the spiritual aspect of quantum physics?
Throughout history, humans -- whether through shamans invoking animal spirits or priests using the rites of the Christian church -- have believed that the spirit world can influence events on Earth. Now, scientific studies are showing that our thoughts may indeed create our own reality. Bohr said reality was dependent on an "observer effect," that observation can influence events. While many scientists discounted this idea, recent experiments are showing that it may have some merit [source: Lyon]. The repetitive words and actions of a religious service may alter reality, the studies show, and the more people who observe and participate in these rites, the more powerful the waves of energy produced, confirming what the faithful say they've known all along.

[Hazard]

Quantum Physics Quiz
Sources
Achenbach, Joel. "The God Particle." National Geographic. March 2008. (Aug. 30, 2010) http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/20...achenbach-text
Bormanis, Andre. "Star Trek Cult: Combat Forces." BBC. (Nov. 2, 2010) http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/st/intervi...s/page38.shtml
Brandon, John. "Freaky Physics Proves Parallel Universes Exist." Fox News. April 5, 2010. (Sept. 2, 2010) http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/...lel-universes/
Cho, Adrian. "Quantum Cryptography Hits the Fast Lane." Science. April 19, 2010. (Aug. 30, 2010) http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceno...ts-the-fa.html
Comstock, Paul. "The Strange World of Quantum Entanglement." California Literary Review. March 30, 2007. (Aug. 30, 2010) http://calitreview.com/51
Egglescliffe School. "Particle Accelerators." (Nov. 2, 2010) http://www.egglescliffe.org.uk/physi...lder/acc1.html
Guijosa, Alberto. "What is String Theory?" Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico. Sept. 9, 2004. (Sept. 6, 2010) http://www.nuclecu.unam.mx/~alberto/physics/string.html
Hilgevoord, Jan and Jos Uffink. "The Uncertainty Principle." Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. July 3, 2006. (Nov. 1, 2010) http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qt-uncertainty/
Institute of Physics. "Does anyone understand quantum mechanics?" March 25, 2009. (Nov. 1, 2010) http://www.physics.org/featuredetail.asp?id=33
Jones, Andrew Zimmerman and Daniel Robbins. "String Theory for Dummies." Wiley Publishing Inc. 2010.
Lyon, William S. "Shamanic Healing: Why It Works." Beliefnet. (Aug. 30, 2010) http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Paga...Works.aspx?p=1
Massachusetts Institute of Technology. "New Material Puts Its Own Spin On Electronics; Could Greatly Increase Computing Power." ScienceDaily. May 29, 2006. (Aug. 30, 2010) http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0528161422.htm
Mayes, Keith. "What is quantum mechanics?" 2004. (Nov. 11, 2010) http://www.thekeyboard.org.uk/Quantum%20mechanics.htm
Nobel Media. "Interpreting the Quantum World." 2010. (Nov. 3, 2010) http://nobelprize.org/educational/ph...etation-2.html
Oracle ThinkQuest Education Foundation. "What is Quantum Physics?" (Aug. 30, 2010) http://library.thinkquest.org/3487/qp.html
PBS. "Quantum Mechanics." 1999. (Aug. 30, 2010) http://www.pbs.org/transistor/science/info/quantum.html
Rowe, Aaron. "Quantum Dots Glow Where Cancer Cells Grow." Wired Science. June 22, 2007. (Aug. 2, 2010) http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/20...antum-dots-gl/
University of Toronto. "Quantum Mechanics at Work in Photosynthesis: Algae Familiar With These Processes for Nearly Two Billion Years." ScienceDaily. Feb. 4, 2010. (December 17, 2010)http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0203131356.htm

[Times Roman]

awww shit haz! i was just about to take a nap, and now this. ok... let me get to reading