SCIENCE/SPACE/TIME - a meeting of the minds!

[Beefkake31]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/...fmattercreated

Scientists claim new matter created.

[Charger527]

For earth like plants i think the estimate is only 10000 at the moment not millions so that really narrorws it down. But that is going on that life revolves around h20, there is always the chance that there are some beings that do not require it to function, just none we know of.

Also has anyone heard the radio siginals they pick up from deadspace some pretty crazy shit. They think it is an echo from the bigbang, which is possible never ending?

Also i thought to travel at the speed of light you would have to become light yourself?? So how would you stop??


Very good thread love learning about this stuff.

[*El Diablo*]

I don't have time to respond to the many great posts that were posted over the last 24 hours LOL so i'll try my best to comment on wha ti can remember.....

regarding the speed of light..... they know of things that can go the speed of light..... we jsut can't use them to travel. For example...... picture scissors..... as you close the pair of scissors..... you can follow the point at which the metal meets. It starts at the bottom of the scissors and continues up until the two tips meet. If we had scissors that extended into space..... and we could close those scissors as fast as we possibly could..... that "point where the metal meets" would be traveling faster than the speed of light.

The universe is not infinite and we know this now..... butit is expanding.

Traveling outside of the universe is NOT IMPOSSIBLE..... be our civilization will have to be a class 3. I can't go into explaining the classes and what they mean but a short answer is right now i believe we are on the brink of becomming a class 1. Being able to haness most of our planets energy and some of the sun's. Class 3's can harness all of it's planets..... it's sun..... and other external sources. Essentially - a class 3 society would be nearly impossible to destroy. Picture the "deathstar" from star wars..... that was a class 3. I think we're approximately 20,000 years away from class 2 at the rate our technology is progressing.

Black holes...... it's very possible that a black hole could throw us into another part of our universe or into another universe. We, however, could not come back!

Regarding anti-matter being the most expensive sh*t on earth...... thats correct and someone please let me know when they develope enough for me to inject

Oh and lastly..... another "space travel" option is to use "sails" - they would shoot electron beams at the space shuttle sails and that would propel the shuttle through space. But "electron beam" stations would have to be set up along the way to keep the propulsion going.

If anyone reads "physics of the impossible" by Dr. Michio Kaku - please shoot me a PM and let me know what you thought of it!

~Haz~

WOW Haz u are a very intellectual guy... Cool read

[energizer bunny]

yeah very good read.......

[*El Diablo*]

i want to Bump this thread for the rest of my life until it starts echo'ing back...

[energizer bunny]

ive just had a look at physics of the imposible on wiki....its just a brief read of whats in the book....but im more clearer on the classes of impossibilities....i think il purchase the book when i can.. cheers

[Flagg]

For earth like plants i think the estimate is only 10000 at the moment not millions so that really narrorws it down. But that is going on that life revolves around h20, there is always the chance that there are some beings that do not require it to function, just none we know of.

Also has anyone heard the radio siginals they pick up from deadspace some pretty crazy shit. They think it is an echo from the bigbang, which is possible never ending?

Also i thought to travel at the speed of light you would have to become light yourself?? So how would you stop??


Very good thread love learning about this stuff.

Hmm, I wonder what would happen if you could travel at the speed of light and attempted to switch a torch on?

Yeah, if you base that planets with life have to have exactly the same replication that we had (look up Rare Earth Hypothesis for more on this) then that would narrow the amount of planets like us down by quite a bit. Still, how many stars are there in our Milky Way alone? Some 140 billion. Even if you took out stars that were too big or were dying, there would still have to be around 200 billion planets at least. And if the odds of a planet like ours being recreated in exactly the same conditions were say, 1 million to one, there would still be approximately 100,000 Earth like planets in the galaxy by my calculations (that could be wrong though!).

And like you said, that's going by all life requiring water. Not all life requires light which is pretty interesting, as certain extremophiles can survive in underwater volcanoes and ocean trenches where no light can penetrate. Makes you wonder about organisms hitchhiking on asteroids that crash into planets and inadvertantly kickstart life..

[Flagg]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/...fmattercreated

Scientists claim new matter created.

Just going to have a more detailed look at that in a moment. The Periodic Table is more amazing than people know. For instance, its claimed that if everyone on earth was a Chemist, then every single material could be found and made within a thousand years of research. In otherwords, the potential to build just about anything is already within the Periodic Table somewhere. Indestructable light weight metal would be the way forward for space vessels.

[seriousmass]

And like you said, that's going by all life requiring water. Not all life requires light which is pretty interesting, as certain extremophiles can survive in underwater volcanoes and ocean trenches where no light can penetrate. Makes you wonder about organisms hitchhiking on asteroids that crash into planets and inadvertantly kickstart life..

Not to mention protostome animals, which survive the most harsh conditions on earth.

Certain fish (vampire squid, etc)... live at the bottom of the Ocean's floor. There habitat is insane. They withstand pressure that is 1000's of times stronger then the push of gravity. Not to mention they also live without ANY light.

Certain animals / species just don't need much to survive, and can live off anything! I always wonder if their are forms of life buried deep below the surface of other planets in our galaxy.

[Flagg]

Not to mention protostome animals, which survive the most harsh conditions on earth.

Certain fish (vampire squid, etc)... live at the bottom of the Ocean's floor. There habitat is insane. They withstand pressure that is 1000's of times stronger then the push of gravity. Not to mention they also live without ANY light.

Certain animals / species just don't need much to survive, and can live off anything! I always wonder if their are forms of life buried deep below the surface of other planets in our galaxy.

I can't remember the equation exactly and I even put it on here in a thread once, but basically these underwater creatures use Sulphur as the byproduct for the lack of light. So it's entirely possible that there are micro-organisms that exist under the ice on some of these moons in our solar system. If the pressure is intense enough and a ready supply of sulphur can come up through the vents then sure its possible. Infact I think there is volcanic activity on Titan.

[energizer bunny]

man id love to be able to go back to school.......there is so many things id like to learn..physics being one....im 27 and one of my brothers is 17 and i try and tell him to listen and learn and to get as much free tuition as pos....wil he listen WILL he FUK......LOL but then again i wouldnt 10 years ago either......

[Hazard]

WOW Haz u are a very intellectual guy... Cool read

LMAO thanks..... if i only knew what intellectual meant......

"physics of the impossible" is a great book in my opinion. That would mean a lot if any of you knew me in real life LOLOLOL - i HATE books.... and refuse to read. This book tho..... takes the cake for me LOL - sucked me right in..... couldn't put it down.

It even talks about using "particals" as assassins LMAO! They would be smart enough to fly through the air..... get into the vetilation system...... enter their target through their nose..... and poke holes in their targets lungs. Effectively killing them.....

They would be so small..... that there would be no way to stop them.... other than to stop breathing. The problem is.... they would pretty much be "alive" and could take over the earth if they wanted to.... LMAO

~Haz~

[IM708]

[energizer bunny]

^^^^^^^ man that pic is to big for me to even have a good look....can you not make smaller??

[IM708]

^^^^^^^ man that pic is to big for me to even have a good look....can you not make smaller??

that should be better

[energizer bunny]

that should be better

Yes that is a very good pic........whats it of ?? i know its the sky at night...but whats the nice colours off?

maybe delete the first pic...it takes up a lot of space..

[IM708]

Yes that is a very good pic........whats it of ?? i know its the sky at night...but whats the nice colours off?

maybe delete the first pic...it takes up a lot of space..

Orion nebula.

[Hazard]

I believe all the colors are gasses..... possibly hydrogen? I believe thats the most abundant "element" in the universe.....

~Haz~

[energizer bunny]

lol!

[Lemonada8]

what about life on Venus? their atmosphere resembles an extreme^999999 of LA smog...

[Charger527]

they rekon venus is to close to the sun to have life, going on that all life needs h20, though there is steam so maybe.


Has anyone heard about, an idea for a genration ship? or something like that, where people are partnered of and the ship just goes and they just keep reproducing??

[Flagg]

they rekon venus is to close to the sun to have life, going on that all life needs h20, though there is steam so maybe.


Has anyone heard about, an idea for a genration ship? or something like that, where people are partnered of and the ship just goes and they just keep reproducing??

That sounds like science fiction to most but I can easily see that happening. If they really intend to send people into deep space exploration, they need to send them on a self sustainable ship. Just gotta hope you dont get a nutjob on board.

[Flagg]

Recently the thread has taken on a very "physics" stance and while I find that very interesting, Science is a massive subject area and today I got thinking about how clever are other animals.

It probably doesn't come as some surprise to you guys that a lot of people assume all animals are nothing more than dumb beasts that rely on their instincts, but Animals have a potential that can surprise and possibly surpass us. It is widely accepted that we evolved from Primates, but just say for arguments sake that there were no primates...would another animal have arose and filled the vacuum that we occupy today? Below is a couple of videos I think are very interesting.

Rook uses stone to get to food in the water:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8181233.stm

Rooks are related to Crows and both belong to a family called Corva and are said to be one of the smartest birds. Not only are they adept at using tools but they are excellent problem solvers. For instant, the Rook knows by placing stones into the tube that the stones will displace the water and make it rise high enough for the Rook to get access to the worm.

Elephant creates a painting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He7Ge7Sogrk

This video is about 9 minutes long but well worth the watch. This Elephant paints a picture of another elephant. It's not some random mess, you can clearly see it is an Elephant and the Elephant also demonstrates imagination by showing the elephant in the painting holding a flower, I mean how incredible is this?? It saddens me that animals, intelligent animals such as these, are hunted to near extinction. I mean we hunt and kill other primates, our own ancestors.

Anyways, rather than go off on a rant, have any of you guys ever seen other examples of Animal Intelligence? I mean i know how incredible it is to train a Guide Dog for the blind and some Gorrilas know sign language but anyone else come across any other examples or have any thoughts on this?

EDIT: I also think Animals belonging to the same species have varying degrees of intelligence similiarly found in humans. For example my Mum has a bunch of cats and they often jump up at the window sill outside to be let in. Now one of our cats will do something that seems funny at first but I think is pretty smart. If you open the window behind him, he will walk backwards to let himself in. If you try this with any of the others, they will simply stand there stupidly wondering what to do next, or will eventually jump down, only to jump up again so they are facing the correct way. So something else I ponder on is this, it's often said that for a species to go on, only the strong survive. But is that always physical strength or does intelligence strength play a part? Does the wild dog or bird that is smarter than it's peers have a greater chance of survival than the others?

[*El Diablo*]

Recently the thread has taken on a very "physics" stance and while I find that very interesting, Science is a massive subject area and today I got thinking about how clever are other animals.

It probably doesn't come as some surprise to you guys that a lot of people assume all animals are nothing more than dumb beasts that rely on their instincts, but Animals have a potential that can surprise and possibly surpass us. It is widely accepted that we evolved from Primates, but just say for arguments sake that there were no primates...would another animal have arose and filled the vacuum that we occupy today? Below is a couple of videos I think are very interesting.

Rook uses stone to get to food in the water:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8181233.stm

Rooks are related to Crows and both belong to a family called Corva and are said to be one of the smartest birds. Not only are they adept at using tools but they are excellent problem solvers. For instant, the Rook knows by placing stones into the tube that the stones will displace the water and make it rise high enough for the Rook to get access to the worm.

Elephant creates a painting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He7Ge7Sogrk

This video is about 9 minutes long but well worth the watch. This Elephant paints a picture of another elephant. It's not some random mess, you can clearly see it is an Elephant and the Elephant also demonstrates imagination by showing the elephant in the painting holding a flower, I mean how incredible is this?? It saddens me that animals, intelligent animals such as these, are hunted to near extinction. I mean we hunt and kill other primates, our own ancestors.

Anyways, rather than go off on a rant, have any of you guys ever seen other examples of Animal Intelligence? I mean i know how incredible it is to train a Guide Dog for the blind and some Gorrilas know sign language but anyone else come across any other examples or have any thoughts on this?

EDIT: I also think Animals belonging to the same species have varying degrees of intelligence similiarly found in humans. For example my Mum has a bunch of cats and they often jump up at the window sill outside to be let in. Now one of our cats will do something that seems funny at first but I think is pretty smart. If you open the window behind him, he will walk backwards to let himself in. If you try this with any of the others, they will simply stand there stupidly wondering what to do next, or will eventually jump down, only to jump up again so they are facing the correct way. So something else I ponder on is this, it's often said that for a species to go on, only the strong survive. But is that always physical strength or does intelligence strength play a part? Does the wild dog or bird that is smarter than it's peers have a greater chance of survival than the others?

Unbelievable post Flagg. U guys are really very educated with your Science stuff, and believe u me, I have a big fasination with animals and i can tell you, Animals are WAYY more clever than Humans think, they have an amazing ability to Manipulate humans, and we soooo fall for it everytime.......

[energizer bunny]

hey man...very good...that elephant video is great...that picture is better than i could do...so you think that if primates hadent evolved then maybe another species would have and they would be the dominant species?

[Flagg]

hey man...very good...that elephant video is great...that picture is better than i could do...so you think that if primates hadent evolved then maybe another species would have and they would be the dominant species?

Well what I think, is that it's naturally assumed that strength is what helps a species to survive. The strongest male lion will have the biggest pride, and the genes he passes onto his offspring will be faster and stronger than the Beta male who has his small pride of just two females. It's the same with Gazelles, the biggest male gazelle will have earned his right to mate with the most females, which is good for the species as his genes will be inherited by his offspring that will include his strength and speed. This will enable his offspring to be able to keep up with the lions genes. This is what's known as Red Queen Theory, and it's how most animals can never get a dominant advantage over the other and are able to evolve, together at the same speed but as such that it seems like they are standing still. For example, if you could take a Cheetah from 10,000 years ago and put it in the Saharah today, it would have an immensely hard time keeping up with the modern day cheetah due to modern cheetah having 10,000 years of modern evolutionary advantages.

But if you take primates, well did we evolve from especially intelligent primates? Was it like 2001 Space Odysses where a group of chimpanzees discovered that bones could be used as weapons and the next day they kill the rival group who has not learned this and 1 million years time, we're walking on the moon and talking about this over something called the internet.

It just makes me wonder if it is purely strength and speed that is required in evolution for a species to survive or if intelligence gives an edge to some animals in nature.

I sometimes wonder what pigs or dolphins, whales or squids or even elephants would be today if Primates never existed.

[Flagg]

Unbelievable post Flagg. U guys are really very educated with your Science stuff, and believe u me, I have a big fasination with animals and i can tell you, Animals are WAYY more clever than Humans think, they have an amazing ability to Manipulate humans, and we soooo fall for it everytime.......

I love this part of Science the most. All my modules next year are focussed on evolution, animal behaviour, ecology, paleobiology and so on.

Domesticated animals, especially cats and dogs know exactly how to play on their masters emotions. Not only that, but I think cats and dogs just know when you are sad. How often have you sat down feeling shit and your pet cat or dog will come over to be with you? Is it just instinct or do they know there is something wrong with you and want to cheer you up?

[energizer bunny]

we are saying if primates hadent evolved then some other species would have....but why hasnt another species evolved into an intelligent lifeform?? i mean why couldnt 2 or more life forms evolve in the same way as us...any ideas??

[Flagg]

we are saying if primates hadent evolved then some other species would have....but why hasnt another species evolved into an intelligent lifeform?? i mean why couldnt 2 or more life forms evolve in the same way as us...any ideas??

Us. Not only are we the top predator on the planet we are also a Super Predator. Remember evolution is a relatively gradual state of affairs. The human race has a massive impact on the earth, it's systems and it's populations and all within a very short space of time. We hunt many, many species to the point of extinction. No animal can evolve bullet proof hide and we are the exception to the rule of Red Queen.

[energizer bunny]

Us. Not only are we the top predator on the planet we are also a Super Predator. Remember evolution is a relatively gradual state of affairs. The human race has a massive impact on the earth, it's systems and it's populations and all within a very short space of time. We hunt many, many species to the point of extinction. No animal can evolve bullet proof hide and we are the exception to the rule of Red Queen.

ok....but why didnt other species evolve when we did...before we became a super predator...how come primates not cats became super predators??

[Flagg]

ok....but why didnt other species evolve when we did...before we became a super predator...how come primates not cats became super predators??

It's a numbers game really I think. Being in the right place at the right time. I read some interesting articles that states that if you observes how Baboons and Chimpanzees have evolved over the years that Baboons SHOULD have been the primate to take the next step, but they didn't and it was Chimps. Did you know that 99% of all life that has ever existed since the first cyanobacterias formed, is now dead? We wont be around forever and prehaps there wont be another animal like us again but then when you look at how other animals can do things, it makes you wonder.

Take the Elephant. Im certain that you couldn't give a paintbrush to any one Elephant and it'll bosh out a painting, prehaps not all Elephants can be taught to paint, but as far as Elephants go...that one is the Rembrandt of his species. Again, such a waste that animals like this have the potential for so much, that every day they show means in which we can understand them, communicate with them, but $$ is more important that the pursuit of knowledge.

Why did Chimps evolve before Baboons? Who knows, prehaps they had a Rembrandt or a Mozart equivalent that changed everything...

[energizer bunny]

thanks for your replys Flagg.....i like all this science stuff....i find Physics the most interesting...but the all good!

[The Deuce]

I can't believe NO ONE TOUCHED ON THE FACT OF SUPER MASSIVE BLACK HOLES and the fact that they are at the heart of EVERY KNOWN GALAXY.. even our own...

They are so large that the gravitational forces causes BILLIONS of STARS to revolve around them, and obviously by revolve I mean.. BEING SUCKED INTO !!!!

SUPER MASSIVE BLACK HOLES GUYS.. CHECK IT OUT !!!










Oh and another thing.. something i have always wondered... you know how when like we leave the PLANET EARTH and we are headed somewhere.. let's say do WEST towards MARS...

What the fvck ever happened to SOUTH???

Why not when we got that SPACE SHUTTLE pointed towards MARS.. don't we up end that friggen thing and travel DOWNWARD and see what is going on BELOW US !!!!

What if there are planets with life like I dunno... 30 days worth of travel just going downward??

It's possible right???

[Beefkake31]

Oh and another thing.. something i have always wondered... you know how when like we leave the PLANET EARTH and we are headed somewhere.. let's say do WEST towards MARS...

What the fvck ever happened to SOUTH???

Why not when we got that SPACE SHUTTLE pointed towards MARS.. don't we up end that friggen thing and travel DOWNWARD and see what is going on BELOW US !!!!

What if there are planets with life like I dunno... 30 days worth of travel just going downward??

It's possible right???

I don't know if I understand you correctly but what you are saying isn't possible no. The planets are orbiting around our star, the sun. And they aren't all in a straight line, that's just how they show it in books. If there was another planet 30 days worth of distance we would know about it, no matter what direction it's in.

[The Deuce]

I was just using 30 days as a frame of reference...

But do the laws of direction apply in SPACE??

North, South, East, West...


I mean I dont think you fully understand what I was trying to say....oh forget it wasn't that important of thought out that well anyways...






guys.. seriously tho..

SUPER MASSIVE BLACK HOLES !!!

[Flagg]

I can't believe NO ONE TOUCHED ON THE FACT OF SUPER MASSIVE BLACK HOLES and the fact that they are at the heart of EVERY KNOWN GALAXY.. even our own...

They are so large that the gravitational forces causes BILLIONS of STARS to revolve around them, and obviously by revolve I mean.. BEING SUCKED INTO !!!!

SUPER MASSIVE BLACK HOLES GUYS.. CHECK IT OUT !!!










Oh and another thing.. something i have always wondered... you know how when like we leave the PLANET EARTH and we are headed somewhere.. let's say do WEST towards MARS...

What the fvck ever happened to SOUTH???

Why not when we got that SPACE SHUTTLE pointed towards MARS.. don't we up end that friggen thing and travel DOWNWARD and see what is going on BELOW US !!!!

What if there are planets with life like I dunno... 30 days worth of travel just going downward??

It's possible right???

Yeah its known as the Galactic Core and Astro Physists think every galaxy has one. If you look at the design of our milkyway, its stream of stars swirling around, like taking a circle and drawing smaller circles continuously until you reach the middle...thats the galactic core and it's pulling everything in.

Well, cause space is 3 Dimensional, you could go anywhere, but like the nature of galaxies and how they are formed through the galactic core, they are all closely packed together. You could go down, or up, but you'd find some very barren empty space with the odd star here or there that's broken free of a galaxy. I wonder if any of these lone stars could support planets with life, cause certain eggheads think that our galactic core even has a contributing factor to how life can exist on our planet as even our solar system feels the force of the galactic core.

[The Deuce]

Yeah its known as the Galactic Core and Astro Physists think every galaxy has one. If you look at the design of our milkyway, its stream of stars swirling around, like taking a circle and drawing smaller circles continuously until you reach the middle...thats the galactic core and it's pulling everything in.

A supermassive black hole is a black hole with a mass of the order of between 10(to the 5th power) and 10(to the 10th power) solar masses. Most, if not all, galaxies, including the Milky Way, are believed to contain supermassive black holes at their centers....

Supermassive black holes have properties which distinguish them from their relatively low-mass cousins:

The average density of a supermassive black hole (measured as the mass of the black hole divided by its Schwarzschild volume) can be very low, and may actually be lower than the density of air. This is because the Schwarzschild radius is directly proportional to mass, while density is inversely proportional to the volume. Since the volume of a spherical object (such as the event horizon of a non-rotating black hole) is directly proportional to the cube of the radius, and mass merely increases linearly, the volume increases at a greater rate than mass. Thus, average density decreases for increasingly larger radii of black holes.

[ALMOST SCHWARZENEGGER... hahaha...)

The tidal forces in the vicinity of the event horizon are significantly weaker. Since the central singularity is so far away from the horizon, a hypothetical astronaut travelling towards the black hole center would not experience significant tidal force until very deep into the black hole.

Astronomers are confident that our own Milky Way galaxy has a supermassive black hole at its center, in a region called Sagittarius A* because:

• The star S2 follows an elliptical orbit with a period of 15.2 years and a pericenter (closest distance) of 17 light hours from the central object
  
• Early estimates indicated that the central object contains 2.6 million solar masses and has a radius of less than 17 light hours. Only a black hole can contain such a vast mass in such a small volume.
  
• Further observations strengthened the case for a black hole, by showing that the central object's mass is about 3.7 million solar masses and its radius no more than 6.25 light-hours.

SO... Just so you know we have a goddamned SUPERMASSIVE BLACKHOLE At the VERY CENTER of our own GALAXY !!!



Kinda Makes ya think... here's some pics of a SUPER MASSIVE BLACK HOLE...

[Bio-boosted]

I was just using 30 days as a frame of reference...

But do the laws of direction apply in SPACE??

North, South, East, West...


I mean I dont think you fully understand what I was trying to say....oh forget it wasn't that important of thought out that well anyways...






guys.. seriously tho..

SUPER MASSIVE BLACK HOLES !!!

Magnetic compass directions are meaningless in space travel. X, Y and Z are used, direction maintained using a gyroscope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroscope
Not overly sure but I believe The North Star is used as a reference point on our XYZ 3d grid.

[IronReload04]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6M-IWWcG98

[Charger527]

Bit late but im pretty sure the elephant painting a picture turned out to be a fake