I wanna debate God thread

[fit4ever]

Ironic thing about Darwin is the fact that he himself stated that, "If there is no physical evidence within fossil records that living creatures produced other living creatures outside of their own make, then my theory should be done away with."

Because when is the last time that you saw a horse produce a dog or a duck give birth to an alligator?

[BJJ]

Live and let live would help solve alotta problems.

Homophobia, abortion, drug laws, I can keep goin...

You make it very simple but I do agree.

[BJJ]

the same people who created religion are the same people who used to dance to try to make it rain... some people around the world still dance for rain, and we look at them like they are stupid cause we all know dancing for rain is pretty upsurd..so what does that say about the other part?

Disagree.

Those who created religion did it to control others and govern the world.
Those who still dance for the rain to come are just ignorant people who did not have the chance to study and still behave as their own ancestors did.

[BJJ]

You do know what "ornate" means right?

anyway, if the people you're talking to about religion can only reply with "have faith", perhaps you need to talk to some more educated people.

Agree

[DSM4Life]

edit

[chicmagnet]

There was a God, he's on a break.

[DSM4Life]

edit

[Undercover]

If God is omnipotent, can he build a wall so strong that he himself can't destroy?

/thread

[Flagg]

If God is omnipotent, can he build a wall so strong that he himself can't destroy?

/thread

This is very similiar to the "Can God create a rock that nothing in existence can lift"...the question is a paradox that disproves omnipotence.

If you have a fully functioning brain then yes, you will realise God is just another superstition.

[D7M]

If God is omnipotent, can he build a wall so strong that he himself can't destroy?

/thread

Nope.

And you will be hard pressed to find a theist that holds that God can do the logically impossible.

Making a squared circle, creating a rock so heavy even He (God) can't move it, the above wall example, are all instances of the logically impossible.

And the logically impossible is in no way synonymous with "omnipotence".

Quite frankly, the question does not make sense. Syntactically, it does. But it fails logically, and so only serves to attract the attention of the weak minded.

That question, in reality, is just as silly as asking, What flavor Saturday is.

[D7M]

This is very similiar to the "Can God create a rock that nothing in existence can lift"...the question is a paradox that disproves omnipotence.

If you have a fully functioning brain then yes, you will realise God is just another superstition.

huh, I guess I don't have a fully functioning brain.

[BJJ]

Nope.

And you will be hard pressed to find a theist that holds that God can do the logically impossible.

Making a squared circle, creating a rock so heavy even He (God) can't move it, the above wall example, are all instances of the logically impossible.

And the logically impossible is in no way synonymous with "omnipotence".

Quite frankly, the question does not make sense. Syntactically, it does. But it fails logically, and so only serves to attract the attention of the weak minded.

That question, in reality, is just as silly as asking, What flavor Saturday is.

Do Agree

[BJJ]

huh, I guess I don't have a fully functioning brain.

Either do I.

[Flagg]

Nope.

And you will be hard pressed to find a theist that holds that God can do the logically impossible.

Making a squared circle, creating a rock so heavy even He (God) can't move it, the above wall example, are all instances of the logically impossible.

And the logically impossible is in no way synonymous with "omnipotence".

Quite frankly, the question does not make sense. Syntactically, it does. But it fails logically, and so only serves to attract the attention of the weak minded.

That question, in reality, is just as silly as asking, What flavor Saturday is.

The point of omnipotence is that nothing is impossible. Hence the examples.

Omnicience is another, to be all knowing, to be infaliable, nothing could surprise him but then you have Adam and Eve and the tree of knowledge, so thats another "God" ability debunked.

[BJJ]

The point of omnipotence is that nothing is impossible. Hence the examples.

Omnicience is another, to be all knowing, to be infaliable, nothing could surprise him but then you have Adam and Eve and the tree of knowledge, so thats another "God" ability debunked.

That is religion man, don't mess up.
As already stated previously in another thread, religions were made by men to control and dominate others.
God does not have anything to do with that.
To believe in God you are not bound to take into account also a religion.
You might be a simple deist.

[Flagg]

At the end of the day if there is something I don't fully understand, I try and research the subject. I don't cop out and file under "God works in mysterious ways".

Look, it's fine for those that believe in God, I just think you are afraid of death, the dark and the pursuit of knowledge. Im content with the fact that oblivion is waiting for me when I die.

[Flagg]

That is religion man, don't mess up.
As already stated previously in another thread, religions were made by men to control and dominate others.
God does not have anything to do with that.
To believe in God you are not bound to take into account also a religion.
You might be a simple deist.

Question for you then as you don't want to blur the lines of religion and God.

Why does there have to be a God? Why do you think a God exists? Because of the nature of the Universe?

[BJJ]

No oblivion is waiting for you after your death. Knowledge is waiting!
Again, you mess up God and religions.

[BJJ]

Question for you then as you don't want to blur the lines of religion and God.

Why does there have to be a God? Why do you think a God exists? Because of the nature of the Universe?

It's a long reply to be done and I have to go dinner now... my wife is calling me up. Once back I shall reply since I do like the subject discussed very much indeed.

[D7M]

The point of omnipotence is that nothing is impossible. Hence the examples.

Omnicience is another, to be all knowing, to be infaliable, nothing could surprise him but then you have Adam and Eve and the tree of knowledge, so thats another "God" ability debunked.

Maybe in a general sense that is what omnipotence means, but that is never, and I mean, never how omnipotence is defined in the philosophical or theological literature.

Omnipotence is rather that God can do whatever he wills.

In fact there are something that God simple cannot do. He cannot sin, for example, as it would be contrary to his character by definition.

I really don't see how you debunked omniscience in two sentences. There wasn't even an argument there. I mean I tried to see it....

At the end of the day if there is something I don't fully understand, I try and research the subject. I don't cop out and file under "God works in mysterious ways".

I don't know who's coping out? I gave pretty direct and clear answers.

You seem like a pretty smart guy, but this is obviously one area where further research is needed on your part.

[Flagg]

Maybe in a general sense that is what omnipotence means, but that is never, and I mean, never how omnipotence is defined in the philosophical or theological literature.

Omnipotence is rather that God can do whatever he wills.

In fact there are something that God simple cannot do. He cannot sin, for example, as it would be contrary to his character by definition.

I really don't see how you debunked omniscience in two sentences. There wasn't even an argument there. I mean I tried to see it....




I don't know who's coping out? I gave pretty direct and clear answers.

You seem like a pretty smart guy, but this is obviously one area where further research is needed on your part.

By your definition, there are things God cannot do, despite his unlimited power, because the Universe is built on Aristotle physics? I see you believe in God in the more traditional, Abrahamic fashion. God in your opinion is without sin? Why did he leave his first two creations un-attended? Would you leave your two children in a room with an uncapped bottle of bleach on the table? As a test? God may be without sin in your eyes, but he is utterly irresponsible in mine. It's clear we are never going to agree on this as all you will say is "i dont understand what you are saying" despite my reasoning behind my statements. You have given me nothing. You say he cannot sin. How do you know this? The Good Book?

I don't believe in God from any religious point of view what so ever. For this God to watch our species, for thousands of years, dying of famine, plagues, child birth, average life span of about 20 years, only to come forward some 2000 years ago and think "now i'll intervene". Has an only son only to be torn to shreds in a remote part of Iron Age palestine, it's just ludicrous.

And I just don't see the point of a God outside the realm of religion either. Saying there has to be an ultimate being that created the universe...that's how religions start in the first place! "Hmm, cant figure this out...oh we'll say an incredible powerful diety did this".

2000 years ago the human race believed the Earth ranged from a flat plane of existence to resting on the shoulders of giants. Through free thinking and the pursuit of knowledge we now know that not only is it round but that we have a moon, we know the age of our planet and that we share our planet with several other planets in our solar system, all of which is part of a galaxy with billions of other stars. One day we'll be able to explain the nature of the universe as well.

[dangerous dan]

OMG... god who the fuks god?!?!?! never heard of the geezer

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

Yes We Can!

[BJJ]

...because the Universe is built on Aristotle physics? For your info the Aristotelian's thought brought the science to the wrong path for 1800 years till a guy named Niccolò Copernico, the real revolutionary, changed everything. Aristotele proposed a model of universe named the geocentric model (with our planet in the middle of the universe). Fatal error we know today, but as said 18 centuries had to pass for Copernico to suggest the correct model, the heliocentric one. After him, Keplero and Galileo deeply studied his ideas and... I am becoming verbose. However, to be real fussy, when Aristotele mistook on his ideas of the universe, another Greek philosopher, Aristarco from Samo, understood and had seen the right path. What Copernico did, was just getting back those ideas.

I see you believe in God in the more traditional, Abrahamic fashion. God in your opinion is without sin? Why did he leave his first two creations un-attended? Would you leave your two children in a room with an uncapped bottle of bleach on the table? As a test? God may be without sin in your eyes, but he is utterly irresponsible in mine. It's clear we are never going to agree on this as all you will say is "i dont understand what you are saying" despite my reasoning behind my statements. You have given me nothing. You say he cannot sin. How do you know this? The Good Book?
Why don't you just try to think like a deist? Deism is a doctrine which admits the existence of a God as the cause of the universe, founding its creed only on reason. Forget the religions.

I don't believe in God from any religious point of view what so ever. For this God to watch our species, for thousands of years, dying of famine, plagues, child birth, average life span of about 20 years, only to come forward some 2000 years ago and think "now i'll intervene". Has an only son only to be torn to shreds in a remote part of Iron Age palestine, it's just ludicrous. And I just don't see the point of a God outside the realm of religion either. Saying there has to be an ultimate being that created the universe...that's how religions start in the first place! "Hmm, cant figure this out...oh we'll say an incredible powerful diety did this". I believe we become incarnate to achieve something in this dimension and God cannot act in helping us in any case. Miracles and similar simply do not exist, we are on our own. This explains why so many people were/are/will be suffering, explains why someone is born in the U.S.A. and someone else in Congo. It is all up to us since I believe we choose the body to incarnate before coming in this dimension and as harder our life will be on earth, as "cleaner" if we succeed, our soul will become.

2000 years ago the human race believed the Earth ranged from a flat plane of existence to resting on the shoulders of giants. Through free thinking and the pursuit of knowledge we now know that not only is it round but that we have a moon, we know the age of our planet and that we share our planet with several other planets in our solar system, all of which is part of a galaxy with billions of other stars. One day we'll be able to explain the nature of the universe as well. Yes but yet a God will be there, still.

I believe you need to read a book, which I am going to find by tomorrow to give you the author and title.

[Undercover]

Nope.

And you will be hard pressed to find a theist that holds that God can do the logically impossible.

Making a squared circle, creating a rock so heavy even He (God) can't move it, the above wall example, are all instances of the logically impossible.

And the logically impossible is in no way synonymous with "omnipotence".

Quite frankly, the question does not make sense. Syntactically, it does. But it fails logically, and so only serves to attract the attention of the weak minded.

That question, in reality, is just as silly as asking, What flavor Saturday is.

I certainly don't agree when you say it's logically impossible. Theoretically speaking, I can definitely build a wall that I can't destroy. Why can't God?

Now if you're going to say humans aren't fully equipped to understand how God works, then that's something else. I'd rather rely on what I have, then on what isn't there.

[Dont wanna be old]

Horton Hears a who . Good book

Think about that !

Faith you can't see , but is it there ?

Love , can't see it , smell it or touch it , but I can feel it .

I don't believe in any god or religion , but believe some people feel better in the beliefs and comforts of religion .

Sometimes I wonder , the pure evil that I have seen , that maybe there is a opposite .

If debating religion and questioning god is a popular subject . I would suggest checking out : www.zeitgeistmovie.com

If you follow zeitgeist documentaries , long winded but I promise you will be a different person after watching

[Flagg]

I believe you need to read a book, which I am going to find by tomorrow to give you the author and title.

The reason I dont think like a Deist is because it's again, putting an anthropogenic spin on the Universe. Yes, Deism denies superstition and religion but again, it's a concept similiar to those in that it's looking for an anthropogenic way of looking at the Universe. It's my belief that creation and life is nothing more than a numbers game, that everything can be defined with maths and physics.

Look at it this way, what came first...God or the Universe? You could debate that for the creation to exist, there had to be a creator first. But from where did the creator originate? The only way one of these two abstracts could exist without the other is if one was infinite.

Another question to ask is, how did the Supreme Being become the supreme being. What sets him/her/it apart from everything else in creation? By comparison the difference between you and an ant is immense..it is impossible for the ant to even comprehend what we know but that doesnt make us neither supreme, or currently, in a better off position that the ant in defining the universe. I guess the point im making is that we can never quite accept anything on face value. An alien civilisation could visit us with a level of technology that makes them seem as far ahead of us as we are of the ant, technology that makes them seem like Gods, but are they really Gods? Or do they simply have a greater awareness of their surroundings over us?

Its a bit late and im sort of rambling here. If you do have a good book for me to read let me know as I am keen and find this stuff very interesting.

[c-Z]

[DSM4Life]

edited by DSM

[Undercover]

Read this guys, it's a good read: http://www.simulation-argument.com/computer.pdf

[D7M]

By your definition, there are things God cannot do, despite his unlimited power, because the Universe is built on Aristotle physics?


Anyway, Aristotelian physics and metaphysics has little to do with my belief in God. But a sort of hybrid Aristotelianism maybe a helpful tool to explain certain theological truths.


I see you believe in God in the more traditional, Abrahamic fashion. God in your opinion is without sin? Why did he leave his first two creations un-attended? Would you leave your two children in a room with an uncapped bottle of bleach on the table? As a test? God may be without sin in your eyes, but he is utterly irresponsible in mine.


Yes, God is by definition without sin.

As for why there is evil, this is the question of theodicy. I've already answered this somewhere else on this forum. I'll see if I can find it. But it was certainly not to test us.

It's clear we are never going to agree on this as all you will say is "i dont understand what you are saying" despite my reasoning behind my statements. You have given me nothing. You say he cannot sin. How do you know this? The Good Book?

Um, that's not all I said. I said I didn't understand this from you:

"Omnicience is another, to be all knowing, to be infaliable, nothing could surprise him but then you have Adam and Eve and the tree of knowledge, so thats another "God" ability debunked."

I assume you're talking about God's foreknowledge of events. But you didn't say that. There is no argument there. God is omniscient...then you have Adam and Eve....AND?....



I don't believe in God from any religious point of view what so ever. For this God to watch our species, for thousands of years, dying of famine, plagues, child birth, average life span of about 20 years, only to come forward some 2000 years ago and think "now i'll intervene". Has an only son only to be torn to shreds in a remote part of Iron Age palestine, it's just ludicrous.

And I just don't see the point of a God outside the realm of religion either. Saying there has to be an ultimate being that created the universe...that's how religions start in the first place! "Hmm, cant figure this out...oh we'll say an incredible powerful diety did this".

2000 years ago the human race believed the Earth ranged from a flat plane of existence to resting on the shoulders of giants. Through free thinking and the pursuit of knowledge we now know that not only is it round but that we have a moon, we know the age of our planet and that we share our planet with several other planets in our solar system, all of which is part of a galaxy with billions of other stars. One day we'll be able to explain the nature of the universe as well.

Your post just seems so defensive. I don't know, maybe I'm just reading it that way?

I'm honestly not trying to convert you. I could really care less. I'm interested in the topic, and encounter alot of people who are just so angry at religion, especially when they haven't even taken the time to study it.

[D7M]

Nice, DSM.

Reported.

Can I go onto the "gay thread full of homo goodness" and post an offensive pic to you?

You know if I did that everyone would get all pissy.

So you want tolerance, well learn to be tolerant.

[Undercover]

[DSM4Life]

Nice, DSM.

Reported.

Can I go onto the "gay thread full of homo goodness" and post an offensive pic to you?

You know if I did that everyone would get all pissy.

So you want tolerance, well learn to be tolerant.

I find talking about god offensive. You been around for a while, maybe we should go back to banning religious topics.

[D7M]

I find talking about god offensive. You been around for a while, maybe we should go back to banning religious topics.

I have no problem with banning religious topics again.

I'm here to learn about AAS, training, diet, etc. Not religion.

But it comes up, and I give my input.

I understand religious talk offends you, that's cool.

But I'm just saying it should be straight across the board.

No one's gonna post offensive pics to Jews, Muslims, or gays, but somehow it's fine to offend Christians?

[DSM4Life]

I edited the pic. And i will leave the thread.

No disrespect. My dislike for religion must have gotten the best of me.

[Undercover]

Nice, DSM.

Reported.

Can I go onto the "gay thread full of homo goodness" and post an offensive pic to you?

You know if I did that everyone would get all pissy.

So you want tolerance, well learn to be tolerant.

Homosexuality is real. Fairy tales are not.

Also, it's not like this is THE JESUS THREAD and we barged in and started ridiculing Christianity.

[D7M]

I edited the pic. And i will leave the thread.

(in a non-gay, non-religious way, of course

[DSM4Life]

(in a non-gay, non-religious way, of course

[Flagg]

Your post just seems so defensive. I don't know, maybe I'm just reading it that way?

I'm honestly not trying to convert you. I could really care less. I'm interested in the topic, and encounter alot of people who are just so angry at religion, especially when they haven't even taken the time to study it.

Prehaps i am a bit defensive but i do feel hostile to religion and its barbaric archaic beliefs.

But im not ignorant. Im quite well learned about the good book, i havent read it cover to cover, but i have read large sections of it and am aware of the story of Abraham, Job, Noah, Kane and Abel, Genesis, Moses and so on.

I dont dislike things for no reason. Thats ignorance and i dispise ignorance above all other things.