I wanna debate God thread

[Epic1]

Birth control? Well its not working out very well, seeing as there are 5 people being born for every 3 people dying per second second. Thats 2 people being added to the population every second.

Want to know how the world was made? Open a geology book.

Well it would be much worse if there wasnt. God just delayed the inevitable so we could become smart enough to survive. We need a fresh start in the world. Pretty much we need that global disaster to happen soon. Which im sure it will if the world become over populated like im sure your books will tell you that. Nothing but bad things ahead. And then maybe have some balance again afterwards. but all because of gays we can move on. Thanks dsm.

[Bio-boosted]

Birth control? Well its not working out very well, seeing as there are 5 people being born for every 3 people dying per second second. Thats 2 people being added to the population every second.

Want to know how the world was made? Open a geology book.

Yes!

[Flagg]

you are MADE to believe in something higher then you.. it's a natural defensive/survivle technique of your body..

anytime your pray or meditate, there is a portion of your brain where the veins dialate, making your feel good.. that should be proof in it's self..

higher/altered states also play a role in this..

I dont think that has anything to do with hard wiring or survival, it sounds more like man putting an arrogant anthropomorphic look on everything.

People still believe in themselves, and thats all the willpower they will ever need to succeed.

[DSM4Life]

You how we all have looked at fat people and said to ourselves "Whats wrong with them?" I am doing the same thing after reading half your posts

[Flagg]

Well it would be much worse if there wasnt. God just delayed the inevitable so we could become smart enough to survive. We need a fresh start in the world. Pretty much we need that global disaster to happen soon. Which im sure it will if the world become over populated like im sure your books will tell you that. Nothing but bad things ahead. And then maybe have some balance again afterwards. but all because of gays we can move on. Thanks dsm.

I agree with you that prehaps a Global Disaster is required, a fresh start is would be good. Every time those two human lives are added to our population every second, the world gets a bit smaller. Mankind in recent times just buries his hand in the sand. We have finite resources yet we act as if we dont. Even Neolithic man was very careful with his surroundings, never taking more than was necessary.

100 million people live in coastal cities around the world. IF the sea level does rise as could be the case, thats a Hell of a lot of people displaced all of a sudden. Over population will be the tipping point to Global War again. Maybe nature will prompt it, maybe we'll run out of resources and begin fighting over whats left. The biggest threat to man right now is himself, and I think thats something everyone in this thread can agree on.

[jamyjamjr]

I dont think that has anything to do with hard wiring or survival, it sounds more like man putting an arrogant anthropomorphic look on everything.
People still believe in themselves, and thats all the willpower they will ever need to succeed.

there's scientific proof behind it bud..

u know how marx said religion was the opium of society?? he wasn't kidding

[Flagg]

there's scientific proof behind it bud..

u know how marx said religion was the opium of society?? he wasn't kidding

If you can find this scientific proof or provide a source, i'll look over it. I still find it to be ludicrous otherwise why do you not see Idol Worshipping in the rest of the animal kingdom?

[D7M]

If you can find this scientific proof or provide a source, i'll look over it. I still find it to be ludicrous otherwise why do you not see Idol Worshipping in the rest of the animal kingdom?

to be clear, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with J3,

but that logic is seriously flawed, Flagg.

Even if J3 is right,

name me which animal of the "animal kingdom" that has the cognitive abilities to "worship". really.

[jamyjamjr]

well, it's a matter of evolution, or at least in some context of it.. animals dont hold complex ideas like we do, their emotions (to our knowledge) dont run rampid and they dont face the same stressors we do... in order to keep our own minds saine and keep pushing forward with life we have evolved to believe in something higher then us..

imagine all the people who would just give up on life if they didn't have their faith... all those people put in horrible situations that look past it because they believe god is with them, so they push on... think about it..

i read the scientific article in a sci journal a coupla years ago.. ill try to google it and bring it up again..

[Flagg]

to be clear, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with J3,

but that logic is seriously flawed, Flagg.

Even if J3 is right,

name me which animal of the "animal kingdom" that has the cognitive abilities to "worship". really.

How is that logic flawed. We maybe brilliant creatures that have learned to go to the moon and split the atom in half, but we are still animals. Down to our baser instincts, we will revert to baser instincts and it happens every day. Religion is a part of us creating notions such as morality and ethic and law, good and evil, right and wrong. To say that we have evolved to worshipping religion is preposterous and I still would like to see this scientific data that says our brains are designed to worship Gods. If it is true, and i wont refute it as I do consider myself open-minded, then it's definitely a flaw in our genetic make up because you DONT see other animals worshipping idols. Not ever. In some ways, if it is true that we have brains that can only think that way, it's further proof that religion and Gods are wrong....because Romans, Ancient Greeks, Norsemen, Egyptians, Aztecs all had their belief systems and who is to say their claims are any less credible than the three major Abrahamic religions of today?

It's further proof that religion is a falacy and a means for our species to cope with and understand the environment around it.

Looking over what ive written, I could almost be inclined to believe it is true that our brains do operate like this. I initially dismissed this on the grounds of no other animal acting like this, but because no animal does, surely then it is a very fundamental flaw that needs to be weeded out of our gene pool.

[Flagg]

well, it's a matter of evolution, or at least in some context of it.. animals dont hold complex ideas like we do, their emotions (to our knowledge) dont run rampid and they dont face the same stressors we do... in order to keep our own minds saine and keep pushing forward with life we have evolved to believe in something higher then us..

imagine all the people who would just give up on life if they didn't have their faith... all those people put in horrible situations that look past it because they believe god is with them, so they push on... think about it..

i read the scientific article in a sci journal a coupla years ago.. ill try to google it and bring it up again..

It's a sad state of affairs, that humans are more afraid of the world than animals are.

[jamyjamjr]

yup...

[Bio-boosted]

I believe that belief in gods probably began sometime after we became fully self-aware. From there we tried to make sense of the world around us, rather than scratching a living or animal-like reaction, and 'things' were tough to work out. What actually is the sun? Why is my winter harvest poor this year?
Science has given us a better reasons for our failing harvests, so sacrifices no longer needed, it also tells us about the sun and the earth. So that's Ra and Vulcan unemployed!
Gods and goddesses came and went, usually though displacement by invader religions (missionaries) but sometimes by abandonment (Nazca) or collaboration (Constantine i).
Today we are left with the residue. Faith in the popular, One God. One left to toss away. And he's dug in like a tick.

[jamyjamjr]

well said

[BJJ]

And BJJ, I still have to go against what you believe. I respect your opinion, I just cant understand it.

You say you dont believe in religion, yet you believe in a Supreme Being, based on the Universe around us.

Mate, that is EXACTLY how religion starts in the first place. Cant figure something out, just say God did it and everyones happy.

DEISM (doctrine that accepts the existence of a God as the cause of the world on the basis only reason, denying the need of revelation and providence and not recognizing constraints of dogmas.)

Deism has nothing to do with religions. Religions give you a life-conduct to follow and make you blind on many other topics. They were alla created to dominate and those who are still dominating want to keep it that way.

Thinking that there is a Supreme Being does not go necessarily toward the religions thought. I have studied many years theology and have my own idea on this dimension and on the other.

Specifically, I think one becomes incarnate to achieve what previously decided. In this dimension we are on our own because it would make no sense being helped by God.
Only a few of us can achieve the final result, the others (the majority) keep coming back till they understand. In this dimension there is no destiny already written but the science of the "caos" dominates everything.
Talking about the humans evolution on this planet, I believe Darwin's theory is not correct. It was made to hide the truth which I belive is concealed in the Area.. (in N.v.d.).
Life developed because being brought on Hearth and then helped in going ahead with "infusion" of others civilizations.
But still, among the whole of the universes and dimensions we have to discover yet, I believe there is a Supreme Being.

[Juturna]

Here is the answer.

Energy. It made us. It will end us. You can even call energy 'God' if you want.


You can all thank me later - donations acceptable.

[Hoggage_54]

Jesus plays hockey

[Bio-boosted]

You've got to admire Deism really. It's a wannabe trump card.
Like when you're playing Monopoly, and you land on the copper. Everyone laughs, haha pay the fine. But with a smirk you slowly draw out the special bit of cardboard...
...Get Out Of Jail Free.

Whatever make you happy though, right?

[BJJ]

You've got to admire Deism really. It's a wannabe trump card.
Like when you're playing Monopoly, and you land on the copper. Everyone laughs, haha pay the fine. But with a smirk you slowly draw out the special bit of cardboard...
...Get Out Of Jail Free.

Whatever make you happy though, right?

We can rely on sciences as much as we want, we can rely on religions as much as we want, we can study our a.. off as much as we want but the real evidence will be waiting till the end of our own lifes... and see?

[Bio-boosted]

I like to call that, 'clutching at straws'.

[Flagg]

DEISM (doctrine that accepts the existence of a God as the cause of the world on the basis only reason, denying the need of revelation and providence and not recognizing constraints of dogmas.)

Deism has nothing to do with religions. Religions give you a life-conduct to follow and make you blind on many other topics. They were alla created to dominate and those who are still dominating want to keep it that way.

Thinking that there is a Supreme Being does not go necessarily toward the religions thought. I have studied many years theology and have my own idea on this dimension and on the other.

Specifically, I think one becomes incarnate to achieve what previously decided. In this dimension we are on our own because it would make no sense being helped by God.
Only a few of us can achieve the final result, the others (the majority) keep coming back till they understand. In this dimension there is no destiny already written but the science of the "caos" dominates everything.
Talking about the humans evolution on this planet, I believe Darwin's theory is not correct. It was made to hide the truth which I belive is concealed in the Area.. (in N.v.d.).
Life developed because being brought on Hearth and then helped in going ahead with "infusion" of others civilizations.
But still, among the whole of the universes and dimensions we have to discover yet, I believe there is a Supreme Being.

I study Environmental Science, with a leaning towards Animal Behaviour, Biology, Evolution and so on, but i've looked at notions of Chaos Theory, which is prevelant in nature and weather/geological systems. Stochastic events for instance, are where seemingly "random" events happen that Science is unable to explain or predict. For instance by observing air pressure and precipitation, meteorologists have a fairly good chance at predicting storms, but now and again a freak storm will occur, for example the hurricane in England back in 1987 and the other hurricane that hit France in 1999. They seemingly came out of nowhere. Now, there is no real "science" to Chaos Theory, to say there is a science is an oxymoron. Chaos Theory is so called because science is not at an advanced level yet to theorise why stochastic events happen. Anything that happens is through a complex series of systems effecting each other in a domino event.

As for other "dimensions", im not sure about that...sounds a bit too Sci-Fi for my liking but there is something known as N-Dimensional Hyper Volume, which is used in maths and physics to describe many variables happening within a 3-Dimensional area.

You might not believe that Darwins Theory is correct, but his theories that looked into Red Queen Theory, Divergent Evolution was ground breaking stuff that is still to be disproved today.

Getting back to beliefs, I believe in Absurdism. That is, there is no one person that is "protected" from random acts of Chaos. Any of us could die at any time, today, tmo or within the next ten minutes. There is no manifest destiny, a 50 a day smoker could live to 100 while a healthy 25 year old could die of a heart attack, "evil" people sometimes go to their graves unpunished, not because they are being protected, but because they simply never got caught. Life is simply a numbers game, of which man looks to give meaning to the world beyond what it is.

[Flagg]

Here is the answer.

Energy. It made us. It will end us. You can even call energy 'God' if you want.


You can all thank me later - donations acceptable.

Partly true, but the first law of Thermo Dynamics is "Energy can neither be created or destroyed and can change from one form to another".

When we croak our decaying bodies will change and various gasses and heat will be emitted. I don't believe we have some magical "soul" that joins with anything though. People are far too concerned with living forever and the thought of oblivion when they die terrifies them more than any depiction of Hell ever could.

[DSM4Life]

Partly true, but the first law of Thermo Dynamics is "Energy can neither be created or destroyed and can change from one form to another".

When we croak our decaying bodies will change and various gasses and heat will be emitted. I don't believe we have some magical "soul" that joins with anything though. People are far too concerned with living forever and the thought of oblivion when they die terrifies them more than any depiction of Hell ever could.

100%

When you die its all over, lights out. Enjoy what you have now.

[gunslinger2]

100%

When you die its all over, lights out. Enjoy what you have now.

Of course that is one personal opinion. Other theories are out there.

[DSM4Life]

Of course that is one personal opinion. Other theories are out there.

Whatever helps you sleep at night...

[gunslinger2]

Whatever helps you sleep at night...

Never said I believe or do not believe in a god. Just stating a fact. Each person has his or her own opinion on the issue. You believe when you die its all over, while others don't. Its not a proven fact either way.

Besides, a nice custom 12 gauge shot gun under my bed helps me sleep at night.

[BJJ]

I study Environmental Science, with a leaning towards Animal Behaviour, Biology, Evolution and so on, but i've looked at notions of Chaos Theory, which is prevelant in nature and weather/geological systems. Stochastic events for instance, are where seemingly "random" events happen that Science is unable to explain. For instance by observing air pressure and precipitation, meteorologists have a fairly good chance at predicting storms but now and again a freak storm will occur, for example the hurricane in England back in 1987 and the other hurricane that hit France in 1999. They seemingly came out of nowhere. Now, there is no real "science" to Chaos Theory, to say there is a science is an oxymoron. Chaos Theory is so called because science is not at an advanced level yet to theorise why stochastic events happen. Anything that happens is through a complex series of systems effecting each other in a domino event.

As for other "dimensions", im not sure about that...sounds a bit too Sci-Fi for my liking but there is something known as N-Dimensional Hyper Volume, which is used in maths and physics to describe many variables happening within a 3-Dimensional area.

You might not believe that Darwins Theory is correct, but his theories that looked into Red Queen Theory, Divergent Evolution was ground breaking stuff that is still to be disproved today.

Getting back to beliefs, I believe in Absurdism. That is, there is no one person that is "protected" from random acts of Chaos. Any of us could die at any time, today, tmo or within the next ten minutes. There is no manifest destiny, a 50 a day smoker could live to 100 while a healthy 25 year old could die of a heart attack, "evil" people sometimes go to their graves unpunished, not because they are being protected, but because they simply never got caught. Life is simply a numbers game, of which man looks to give meaning to the world beyond what it is.

I agree. Perhaps I was not able to express myself in the right way but your last sentence, which I would undersign, does not go against deism theory.

Regarding: "You might not believe that Darwins Theory is correct, but his theories that looked into Red Queen Theory, Divergent Evolution was ground breaking stuff that is still to be disproved today.", it was already disproven a few years ago, 2006 to the mass of people while others already knew it. If then, you have had the chance to visit the Vatican's Library, you could be one of those to know it already.
It is off the theory, now almost certainty, that the birth of life on earth entries from space. researchers of Goddard space flight center have found traces of glycine, one of the 20 amino acids ordinary, in the debris left by Comet wild 2, collected in 2006 by the mission Stardust of NASA. Some of the chemical compounds that gave rise to life on our planet, may be therefore arrived from space, for example through the impact of a meteorite with the earth's surface, or "carried physically to create the life". Identifying the glycine, we now know that the comets may have led amino acids on earth contributing to the elements that have given rise to life itself. This theory is not new in scientific circles.

[Flagg]

Never said I believe or do not believe in a god. Just stating a fact. Each person has his or her own opinion on the issue. You believe when you die its all over, while others don't. Its not a proven fact either way.

Besides, a nice custom 12 gauge shot gun under my bed helps me sleep at night.

And what does that tell you? Death is the same as the dark, we've always been afraid of it. I sleep fine at night and the only thing i've ever had under my bed is a Playboy.

[BJJ]

100%

When you die its all over, lights out. Enjoy what you have now.

Then, are you really enjoying what you have got now?

[BJJ]

And what does that tell you? Death is the same as the dark, we've always been afraid of it. I sleep fine at night and the only thing i've ever had under my bed is a Playboy.

I believe he keeps a gun under is pillow not surely because he is afraid of darkness!

[Flagg]

I agree. Perhaps I was not able to express myself in the right way but your last sentence, which I would undersign, does not go against deism theory.

Regarding: "You might not believe that Darwins Theory is correct, but his theories that looked into Red Queen Theory, Divergent Evolution was ground breaking stuff that is still to be disproved today.", it was already disproven a few years ago, 2006 to the mass of people while others already knew it. If then, you have had the chance to visit the Vatican's Library, you could be one of those to know it already.
It is off the theory, now almost certainty, that the birth of life on earth entries from space. researchers of Goddard space flight center have found traces of glycine, one of the 20 amino acids ordinary, in the debris left by Comet wild 2, collected in 2006 by the mission Stardust of NASA. Some of the chemical compounds that gave rise to life on our planet, may be therefore arrived from space, for example through the impact of a meteorite with the earth's surface, or "carried physically to create the life". Identifying the glycine, we now know that the comets may have led amino acids on earth contributing to the elements that have given rise to life itself. This theory is not new in scientific circles.

I had a quick look at Deism on wikipedia and there are a few things that is similiar to absurdism. Getting my head around one supreme being bothers me for some reason. I could accept other civilisations out there, who's level of technology makes us look like ants in comparison, but one being lording over everything? The Universe is enormous, it might even be finite but it is so big that our minds cant comprehend it. How does one being watch over it all? Is he/she/it aware of 1 asteroid cruising through space, a small bird that is caught in mid-flight by an eagle? If you use the Rare Earth Hypothesis as the grounds that is how a planet with a breathable atmosphere could exist, there would be approximately 1 million earth like planets in our galaxy alone, and there are millions, billions of other galaxies. How does one being account for everything and why would such a being want a job like that?

Red Queen theory is apparant today. The strongest pass on their genes to their offspring, but so does everything else. Red Queen is a nod towards that everything evolves along so fast at the same time that if you looked around it would appear nothing moved. For example, if you took a Cheetah from 1 million years ago and put it in Africa today, it probably wouldnt be able to catch anything.

I think i said divergent evolution previously when I meant convergent evolution. An Echidna, Aardvark, Pangolin and a Numbat are all different types of animals and all live in different parts of the world, but they all share one similiar trait in that they have incredible sense of smell and often have long snouts. This concept is related to natural selection. Convergence is to meet and approach the same point from a different set of angles, so i'd be very interested to hear a different explanation for this evolutionary trait in those 5 animals.

As for the Asteroid thing, yeah i've heard about that and I think it's entirely possible that is how our planet was seeded. I mean i've heard that when the earth was forming, that massive pressures and heat created secondary elements which would then go on to make other elements which would go on to make the first cyanobacterias. But it is still entirely possible that life started from an asteroid impact. Then comes the question, what is the asteroid? What was it a part of originally, and how did the organisms come to be on it in the first place?

I believe he keeps a gun under is pillow not surely because he is afraid of darkness!

Im sure its because the Media has told him its to protect himself from the burglar who's real intention is to rape and murder his entire family

[DSM4Life]

Then, are you really enjoying what you have got now?

I am. Are you ?

[BJJ]

I am. Are you ?

I am too.
So, we are both happy, I would quote!

[gunslinger2]

Im sure its because the Media has told him its to protect himself from the burglar who's real intention is to rape and murder his entire family

Actually I grew up in a very high crime area. Things like that happened all the time to people I knew well. So for me its very unrealistic to expect the cops to wait at my house all the time and protect my family. Thats my job. I'm realistic.

And what does that tell you? Death is the same as the dark, we've always been afraid of it. I sleep fine at night and the only thing i've ever had under my bed is a Playboy

I'm not scared of the dark...lol I also carry a gun on me everywhere I go. I do this because I understand that people sometimes do bad things. I have trouble understanding how the rest of the sheep walk around completely unprotected and then when they get robbed or raped seem so surprised.

[Dancer]

100%

When you die its all over, lights out. Enjoy what you have now.

There is not a gay heaven?

[BJJ]

I had a quick look at Deism on wikipedia and there are a few things that is similiar to absurdism. I am glad you looked on wikipedia but i have a degree in theology and a doctor's degree in mathematics. So, the fact i studied the religions but believe in none of them and the fact i have a degree in math, should make you think i rely on only sciences!
Deism: is a religious and philosophical belief that a supreme being created the universe, and that this (and religious truth in general) can be determined using reason and observation of the natural world alone, without a need for either faith or organized religion. Deists tend to reject the notion of divine interventions in human affairs, such as by miracles and revelations, but not necessarily. These views contrast with a dependence on revelations, miracles, and faith found in many Judeo-Christian, Islamic and other theistic teachings. Deists typically reject most supernatural events (prophecy, miracles) and tend to assert that God (or "The Supreme Architect") has a plan for the universe that is not altered either by God intervening in the affairs of human life or by suspending the natural laws of the universe. What organized religions see as divine revelation and holy books, most deists see as interpretations made by other humans, rather than as authoritative sources. Deism became prominent in the 17th and 18th centuries during the Age of Enlightenment, especially in what is now the United Kingdom, France, United States and Ireland, mostly among those raised as Christians who found they could not believe in either a triune God, the divinity of Jesus, miracles, or the inerrancy of scriptures, but who did believe in one God. Initially it did not form any congregations, but in time deism strongly influenced other religious groups, such as Unitarianism and Universalism, which developed from it. It continues to this day in the forms of classical deism and modern deism.
So, wht's your problem with that! It is very clear and the fact you are bothered "for some reason", it is basically only your problem. Where do you find "absurdism"?
I am a deist who believes in no religion but I have a faith on a Supreme Being. I see no BIG DEAL on that!!!
Getting my head around one supreme being bothers me for some reason. I could accept other civilisations out there, who's level of technology makes us look like ants in comparison, but one being lording over everything? The Universe is enormous, it might even be finite but it is so big that our minds cant comprehend it. That's the point. Stop thinking with a human's mind, use it only for sciences but forget the rest. This is the reason why I believe in a Supreme Being without bothering myself trying to figure out the reason why... I have a faith and look for answers, relying on math, which can lead us to a better evolution in this dimension.How does one being watch over it all? Is he/she/it aware of 1 asteroid cruising through space, a small bird that is caught in mid-flight by an eagle? If you use the Rare Earth Hypothesis as the grounds that is how a planet with a breathable atmosphere could exist, there would be approximately 1 million earth like planets in our galaxy alone, and there are millions, billions of other galaxies. How does one being account for everything and why would such a being want a job like that?

Red Queen theory is apparant today. The strongest pass on their genes to their offspring, but so does everything else. Red Queen is a nod towards that everything evolves along so fast at the same time that if you looked around it would appear nothing moved. For example, if you took a Cheetah from 1 million years ago and put it in Africa today, it probably wouldnt be able to catch anything. It's just a theory.

I think i said divergent evolution previously when I meant convergent evolution. An Echidna, Aardvark, Pangolin and a Numbat are all different types of animals and all live in different parts of the world, but they all share one similiar trait in that they have incredible sense of smell and often have long snouts. This concept is related to natural selection. Convergence is to meet and approach the same point from a different set of angles, so i'd be very interested to hear a different explanation for this evolutionary trait in those 5 animals. I spoke abut human evolution, the animals are another thing and agree with you.

As for the Asteroid thing, yeah i've heard about that and I think it's entirely possible that is how our planet was seeded. I mean i've heard that when the earth was forming, that massive pressures and heat created secondary elements which would then go on to make other elements which would go on to make the first cyanobacterias. But it is still entirely possible that life started from an asteroid impact. Then comes the question, what is the asteroid? What was it a part of originally, and how did the organisms come to be on it in the first place? If you know how an asteroid forms, you know also the answer.

Im sure its because the Media has told him its to protect himself from the burglar who's real intention is to rape and murder his entire family

Bold

[DSM4Life]

There is not a gay heaven?

Shhh first rule of gay heaven, Never speak about gay heaven...

Never said I believe or do not believe in a god. Just stating a fact. Each person has his or her own opinion on the issue. You believe when you die its all over, while others don't. Its not a proven fact either way.

Besides, a nice custom 12 gauge shot gun under my bed helps me sleep at night.

Have you seen the fully automatic shotguns yet ? They are bad azz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu965sVymMs

Would def help me sleep better

[gunslinger2]

Shhh first rule of gay heaven, Never speak about gay heaven...



Have you seen the fully automatic shotguns yet ? They are bad azz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu965sVymMs

Would def help me sleep better

That is nice. Problem is its military and LE only. I am actually thinking about getting this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYsQD...e=channel_page

[DSM4Life]

That is nice. Problem is its military and LE only. I am actually thinking about getting this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYsQD...e=channel_page

Looks smaller, i like it.

[ray0414]

DSM brought up a spectular point in the face of the popular religion. they teach that god created all of us with his love and blah blah blah. yet "his" book says homosexuality is an abomination. It COMPLETELY contradicts itself. People need to realize that the morons who wrote that book werent as smart as u think they were. There are contradictions like that all over the bible, if u have a brain u can clearly see this and laugh at the sillyness. Sorry DSM but according to that book he created just so we all could hate you and send you to hell. but its ok, cuase he loves you!!! lol