I wanna debate God thread

[BJJ]

Did you study the philosophy of scepticism?

or is that an unsafe option..

You keep quoting things which are not part of my life.
I rely on science so, how could I be sceptic?

[BJJ]

Please speakio in Englishio or we wont get you

Tell him!
I just answered his question but did say nothing new.

[Bio-boosted]

I rely on science but still I believe there is a Supreme Being.
Why this bothers you so much. After all it is just my thought!

I thought this a healthy debate.
I am untroubled by others faith, I am troubled by aspects of it though, ID for eg.
Ok, that's enuff of this thread for today. Let's be friends :-)

[gunslinger2]

Homosexuality is neither a lifestyle nor a choice. One could say that this assumption was invented by 'right wing people' to justify their dislike and opposition to homosexuality. The gay stereotype lifestyle you're speaking of is independent of sexual orientation.

And fear doesn't mean that you're theatrically scared of something. Humans react in many different ways to fear. One reaction would be feelings of disgust and hatred towards an object.

Depends on who you ask. I have asked a gay man if their was a pill he could take that would make him straight, would he do it. He said no, because its his choice to be gay. Go figure. Seems a lot of gay people would disagree wiith you.

As for having a phobia: I don't like sushi , it disgusts me. But I don't have an unreasonable fear of it. So the term homophobe makes no sense. It implies an unreasonable fear of homosexuals. I can, not like something without fearing or hating it.

[Bio-boosted]

You keep quoting things which are not part of my life.
I rely on science so, how could I be sceptic?

Scepticism, as a part of your Epistemology classes, I meant.

[gunslinger2]

I rely on science but still I believe there is a Supreme Being.
Why this bothers you so much. After all it is just my thought!

Very well said. I have noticed it seems to bother a lot of people these days, one has to wonder why. I can "choose" to be gay, I can "choose" to be an atheist, I can even "choose" to take steroids , and all of this is perfectly fine, but let someone "choose" to believe in God and people get all pissed off.

[BJJ]

I thought this a healthy debate.
I am untroubled by others faith, I am troubled by aspects of it though, ID for eg.
Ok, that's enuff of this thread for today. Let's be friends :-)

I am ONLY looking for friends but I understood is not so easy.

[Undercover]

Depends on who you ask. I have asked a gay man if their was a pill he could take that would make him straight, would he do it. He said no, because its his choice to be gay. Go figure. Seems a lot of gay people would disagree wiith you.

Did you choose to be straight?

If it were a choice, you would be able to start being attracted to men anytime you want. It's as much of a choice as your gender.
I'm sure lots of gay men would say no to a pill like that. Why do it if you're comfortable with yourself?

Do you think gay people in Iran, for example, chose to be gay for the fun of getting prosecuted and eventually hanged? No one in their right mind would choose a lifetimer of oppression.

As for having a phobia: I don't like sushi , it disgusts me. But I don't have an unreasonable fear of it. So the term homophobe makes no sense. It implies an unreasonable fear of homosexuals. I can, not like something without fearing or hating it.

Would you avoid going to your friend's house, if all he served was Sushi? Are you that disgusted by it? You can always go and just not eat Sushi.

I think it really just depends on your level of dislike. Would you still love your best friend as much if he came out of the closet? If you just have a problem with the gay stereotype's lifestyle, then you should still be able to love your friend. After all, nothing would have changed about him except what (or rather who) he does in the bedroom.

[Undercover]

Very well said. I have noticed it seems to bother a lot of people these days, one has to wonder why. I can "choose" to be gay, I can "choose" to be an atheist, I can even "choose" to take steroids, and all of this is perfectly fine, but let someone "choose" to believe in God and people get all pissed off.

HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT A CHOICE.

I seriously don't know where that idea came from.

[gunslinger2]

Would you avoid going to your friend's house, if all he served was Sushi? Are you that disgusted by it? You can always go and just not eat Sushi.

I would still hang out. Just because my friend eats it does not mean I have to.

What you seem to be trying to do is portray me as a right wing stereotype and it wont work because I wont bite.

I'm not saying you can pick who you are attracted to. I'm saying its a personal choice to act on those feelings.

I seriously don't know where that idea came from.

From the gay people I have talked with it apparently came from them.

[jamyjamjr]

Kant was an idiot. He screwed up philosophy for centuries, and opened the way for all those ridiculous post-Enlightenment philosophers.

But I completely agree with you! Epistemology HAS to be the foundation of any solid philosophy, metaphysics, or theology! I never understood why people don't get that.

I guess what I was trying to ask in my previous post was your particular epistemology. Empiricist? Now it seems Kantian?

Empiricism is garbage, too. No offense. But any critical realist will make short work of an empiricist, simply because our external senses are not our only gateway to reality.

i couldn't say i have a personal following... i just look at the facts. im sure this brings a tad of bias into the formula on my end.. cant deny that... i wouldn't say all the philosophers post-enlightenment were rediculous..

and as much as everybody calls kant an idiot, he's a genius in his own way...

obviously if you disagree with 20 century philosophy you disagree with kant.. he's the one who paved the way, bending rationalism and empiricism together.. like i said before, one is nothing without the other...

cognio ergo sum my friend... ;p;

[jamyjamjr]

Depends on who you ask. I have asked a gay man if their was a pill he could take that would make him straight, would he do it. He said no, because its his choice to be gay. Go figure. Seems a lot of gay people would disagree wiith you.

As for having a phobia: I don't like sushi , it disgusts me. But I don't have an unreasonable fear of it. So the term homophobe makes no sense. It implies an unreasonable fear of homosexuals. I can, not like something without fearing or hating it.

okay, why dont you like sushi?? why does it disgust you?? that's where the fear comes in.. there are diff contexts of fear...

i dont eat sushi.. why? becuase its raw and looks/tastes disgusting.. the fear lies in the "looks/tastes" or maybe a bad exp with it like food poisoning...

[gunslinger2]

okay, why dont you like sushi?? why does it disgust you?? that's where the fear comes in.. there are diff contexts of fear...

i dont eat sushi.. why? becuase its raw and looks/tastes disgusting.. the fear lies in the "looks/tastes" or maybe a bad exp with it like food poisoning...

Could not find anything to disagree with...lol

[Undercover]

I would still hang out. Just because my friend eats it does not mean I have to.

What you seem to be trying to do is portray me as a right wing stereotype and it wont work because I wont bite.

I'm not saying you can pick who you are attracted to. I'm saying its a personal choice to act on those feelings.

I'm trying to portray you as anything. I don't really know anything about you. I just want to know how you would feel about the scenario I previously posted and why.

From the gay people I have talked with it apparently came from them.

I seriously doubt they were qualified enough to answer such a question if that was their answer. Meaning you probably asked retards, or either you or them misunderstood.

If homosexuality were a choice, we'd have much less homosexuals around the world, and almost none in third world countries. I don't see why it's so hard for you to grap how sexual orientation is not a choice. Remember, you didn't choose to be straight. So instead of asking random gay people about their sexual orientation, why don't you ask your straight friends if they chose to be straight?

[jamyjamjr]

I'm trying to portray you as anything. I don't really know anything about you. I just want to know how you would feel about the scenario I previously posted and why.



I seriously doubt they were qualified enough to answer such a question if that was their answer. Meaning you probably asked retards, or either you or them misunderstood.

If homosexuality were a choice, we'd have much less homosexuals around the world, and almost none in third world countries. I don't see why it's so hard for you to grap how sexual orientation is not a choice. Remember, you didn't choose to be straight. So instead of asking random gay people about their sexual orientation, why don't you ask your straight friends if they chose to be straight?

i disagree completely... why would we have less homosexuals around?? what does that have to do with it??

homosexuality is neither a choice or a preeminent notion... it's both...

someone could have homosexual ideas and reject them because of his upbringing and enviroment...

better yet let's throw out the 4 corner box ideological bias that we carry..

define "homosexuality" there really isn't a clear line, that's why we have the kinsey scale..

[gunslinger2]

i disagree completely... why would we have less homosexuals around?? what does that have to do with it??

homosexuality is neither a choice or a preeminent notion... it's both...

someone could have homosexual ideas and reject them because of his upbringing and enviroment...

better yet let's throw out the 4 corner box ideological bias that we carry..

define "homosexuality" there really isn't a clear line, that's why we have the kinsey scale..

Well said. Just took the Kinsey scale test and I'm Straight...lol

[D7M]

i couldn't say i have a personal following... i just look at the facts. im sure this brings a tad of bias into the formula on my end.. cant deny that... i wouldn't say all the philosophers post-enlightenment were rediculous..

and as much as everybody calls kant an idiot, he's a genius in his own way...

obviously if you disagree with 20 century philosophy you disagree with kant.. he's the one who paved the way, bending rationalism and empiricism together.. like i said before, one is nothing without the other...

cognio ergo sum my friend... ;p;

Yah, you're right. Kant was a genius in his own right. I'll give him that.

I just have a real bias toward him and the empiricist/positivists for other reasons.

[jamyjamjr]

never said he was a saint.. but he studied hume for 10 years before he decided to add to it and bring about his rebuttle...

good stuff..

[ranging1]

religion
science & faith in god

"would say it in another way since i would speak about domination, the economy is a consequence."

HOW so?

[ranging1]

Originally Posted by ranging1
OK i havent read all ur posts, so sorry if i repeat something BUT FUK DERS 3 pages here lol

this is what i think and from what ive studied, im currently studying economics and accounting (i know its not religion BUT im majoring in religious studies, history of economys and globalisation) so ive done alot of study into this, and GOD AND RELIGION always seem to be a hot subject in all areas

i think god i a creation by man, it is an idea or belief that forms part of religion not necessarily, they can stand separately.
the definition of religion is: a belief

therefore if GOD forms part of a religion then he forms part of a belief

their are many different religions, and NO ONE CAN ARGUE which is right, its like argueing whos beliefs are right, its completely based upon morals, idea, culture etc

IMO i think god and religion were created as an idea by man to help GUIDE man, no man, religions was created by men to control and dominate others.lets face it i dont know ANY WELL KNOWN religions that believe MURDER or STEALING is right, AND I DONT THINK THEY EVER SHOULD BE sorry but you should read more. for instance the holy bible, it is well written that murders and beat one's wife and many others..., are more than welcome. if you don't trust me, go and read it, you might get surprised. i am talking about the last holy bible, the king giàcomo's one revised in 1603. the one that you find in the hotel/motel around usa with the complimentary of the gideon society. by the way, look for gideon in the holy bible, it should be in chapter 6, and you will see how good he was...[COLOR="Bl
but look at many religions around the world and realise alot of them CATOR to a certain society and economy

heres few examples

china is a typicalt buddist beliefs country, buddism emphsises around hard work, caring for each other, respect for elders and family etc
at the same time chinas economy and culture are based on the teachinga of conficious (a famous chinese man i cbf explaining), these teachings are exactly identical to the religion of buddism and chinas legal system is founded upon this aswell.
the parculiar thing is that both confucism and buddism emerged at a time when china was a country in war, several stated were at war with each continuosly, what emerged? confucism and buddism teaching that CARE and love were the way, NOT FIGHTING, this even halped prevent wars
Coincidence?

when countires like UK wanted to expand their economy quickly the government of UK supported christian teachings, hell they gave the religion money.......
early christian and catholic countries such as england, christianity taught hard work, care for one another,
but at same time perceived wealth as a sign hard work, the more u had the harder u had worked,
its no wonder the first economys to develop rapidly were christian (england, dutch, United states, french) Coincidence?

muslim countires are another example, typicalt beliefs in the countires were MEN were superior, this was becuase one of the first empereors of early islamic empires believed this would strengthen his army and economy after learning early teachings of the muslim religion from Mohammads predessors,
(for those of u who dont know Mohammed, he was basically a man who came up with the idea of the muslim relgion, BTW he didnt come up with this idea up until the age of 40? so u can already question the religion), he sore himself as the messenger of god (ALLAH)
the islamics legal system began to revolve around muslim due to the empereors heavy beliefs influenced by muhammads teachings,
what does the muslim religion teach? that exact same thing thier legal system and economy are based upon. Coincidence?

what im trying to point out here is that the differences in religion ARE ALL shown to revolve around different economysi would say it in another way since i would speak about domination, the economy is a consequence.

heavy early capitalist economys ALL were christian or catholic
Merchantalism economys were heavyily surrounded by Muslim teachings
buddist, hindu, punjab etc all early stages were dictatorships and empires, or socialist (i wont say communist becuase that is INCORRECT, communist is a term used to describe alot fo countires, when really its the wrong word and people who use it usually have NO IDEA what it means)

NOW i know der alot of arguements to this so ill try prevent a few since i know alot of people will disagree, HELL i disagree, IM CATHOLIC, BUT its hard to argue my beliefs with THE BIBLE SAYS SO, when theirs evidence to show my bible is wrong, especially when another religion like Jewish seems to teach HALF MY RELIGION and denys the other half....... (old testemant and new testament)

A. some people say we all originally believe in the same god. and over time since man kind as seperated through land movements etc our religions has evolved or changed to suite areas and cultures?
NO im sorry, first the continants shiftled LONG before mankind was around, so we all originated from different continants, so every different religion CAME from a different person..........., UNLESS he could swim from america to asia......... (i Doubt)

B. People have souls?
Do we? think about the first time u even thought about having a soul? guess it wasnt before primary school? for another fact i bet u can barely remeber anything from ur childhood between the ages of 1-4?
reason why is our Brains develop in stages, each stage allows us to do different things
its the reason why soo many kids toys are bright colours, its becuase our brains at that age are attracted and can see bright colours clearly, while other colours are still unclear

what does this have to do with a soul? well the idea of a soul is just a creation of ur mind, if u couldnt think about having a soul at 2 or didnt even know what a soul is, then how can u say u have one when it was either an idea someone told u about or u learnt it from somewhere, or u use it to describe the thing ur personality is becuase u dont know how to describe ur existance?

ANOTHER: christianity or catholic is the most logical religion and most popular becuase of that?
NO, most likely or not if ur christian u live in a counrty that is either A. industrialised or capitalist, B. live sin a country that has either had english, dutch, portuguese or spanish influence due to these 4 nations owned together almost 80% of the world at a stage in time, they ALL were christian or catholic and helped develop and industrialise countries, they spread their religion through countires and its little wonder why SO MANY PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN DEVELOPED COUNTRIES are these 2 religions, thats why its so popular in these countries

what im trying to come accross here is that GOD, religion, etc are all ideas of man that emerged as time went on and MANKIND began to develop into different stages

thiers endless evidence to support that religion and god are just a belief, theirs NOTHING to support that GOD exists, only beliefs


so tell me ur belief and and idea?

[ranging1]

so tell me ur idea? (to BJJ)

[ray0414]

i think religion was created to control people, and keep them in line. Ever since people have roamed the earth every civilization has had some sort of religion, most of them die out and new ones are created, its a cycle. and right now christianity is dying out cause people are realizing its just not logical. i once believed in santa claus, i had faith that he was real and as a child i argued that he WAS real. to me he was real. but i found out he wasnt. i believed in god til i was 22 or 23. then just really started to THINK about things, did my own research, came up with my OWN thoughts and questions.

[ray0414]

which reminds me, it made pretty big news a few weeks ago that after getting some samples from some comets, they learned that inside these comets are amino acids, particulary glycine which i think the article said is the main protein for life, which basically supports the theory that its possible our DNA came from outter space on a comet that crashed here.

[BJJ]

"would say it in another way since i would speak about domination, the economy is a consequence."

HOW so?

Historical evidences report the domination of one man on another not correlated to any economy.
At the beginning there was no economy at all. The prehistoric needed to rule others to get their females and food to keep begetting children and feed them.
Then, with our evolution we started to develop other reasons to control and dominate the others. Nowadays some does it for economical reason (well actually many) but the propulsive push is stll genetic and come from very very far away, from our own origins.

[ranging1]

yes i know prehistoric was based on an autarktic society of hunters and gathers, (which is still the earliest stages of an economy BTW, and the main religions that exist today shown to have the direct influence on an econmys development) and i already pointed out that religion was used to help rule men based on economys

MY QUESTION WAS, what do u believe in? and explain it in ur terms

[BJJ]

I believe in a Supreme Being and in life after death.
Specifically, I think one becomes incarnate to achieve what previously decided. In this dimension we are on our own because it would make no sense being helped by God.
Only a few of us can achieve the final result, the others (the majority) keep coming back till they understand. In this dimension there is no destiny already written but the science of the "caos" dominates everything.
Talking about the humans evolution on this planet, I believe Darwin's theory is not correct. It was made to hide the truth which I belive is concealed in the Area.. .
Life developed because being brought and then helped in going ahead with "infusion" of others civilizations.

[Epic1]

God created gays because its his form of birth control for our outta control population. You are born gay.

dsm is here to keep the balance of the human race. Nothing else.

[DSM4Life]

God created gays because its his form of birth control for our outta control population. You are born gay.

dsm is here to keep the balance of the human race. Nothing else.

Wouldn't god have to exists for this to be true ?

Nature created gay people which is why we are all perfect.

[Epic1]

No you are proof god exists. You wouldnt be here if he wasnt.

[DSM4Life]

No you are proof god exists. You wouldnt be here if he wasnt.

Then if god created me, being gay isn't a sin.

[jamyjamjr]

No you are proof god exists. You wouldnt be here if he wasnt.

what the HELL does that have to do with anything??

how random.. your here, so god exists...

in that case, jiminy cricket is god.. since we're making wild assumptions..

actually, put an X in the place of god and let your imagination run free.. because it's all a false statment without some type of rational/empirical proof..

[Epic1]

i never said it was. You were what was necessary. Thats all.

[Epic1]

what the HELL does that have to do with anything??

how random.. your here, so god exists...

in that case, jiminy cricket is god.. since we're making wild assumptions..

actually, put an X in the place of god and let your imagination run free.. because it's all a false statment without some type of rational/empirical proof..

is anyone taking this tread serious? i wasnt. But hey if you are ill leave it now.

[Flagg]

Then if god created me, being gay isn't a sin.

It's rare, but DSM makes a valid point.

Lets see, im here cause my Mum and Dad ****ed. But, Epic1 believes we are here because God made us. So, if homosexuality is so wrong, why did God make gays? I suspect Epic1 will either be unable or unwilling to answer this..

[Flagg]

And BJJ, I still have to go against what you believe. I respect your opinion, I just cant understand it.

You say you dont believe in religion, yet you believe in a Supreme Being, based on the Universe around us.

Mate, that is EXACTLY how religion starts in the first place. Cant figure something out, just say God did it and everyones happy.

[Epic1]

I dont think homesexuality is wrong. I think they serve a purpose. as do straight people. As a form of natual birth control. I explained that above.

[Bio-boosted]

The creator god of the Old Testament died, November 24th 1859.

[jamyjamjr]

is anyone taking this tread serious? i wasnt. But hey if you are ill leave it now.

i didn't know you were joking.. and yea, there are some (especially those who have majored/studied theology/philosophy/religious studies) we cant help it

[Flagg]

I dont think homesexuality is wrong. I think they serve a purpose. as do straight people. As a form of natual birth control. I explained that above.

Birth control? Well its not working out very well, seeing as there are 5 people being born for every 3 people dying per second second. Thats 2 people being added to the population every second.

Want to know how the world was made? Open a geology book.

[jamyjamjr]

And BJJ, I still have to go against what you believe. I respect your opinion, I just cant understand it.

You say you dont believe in religion, yet you believe in a Supreme Being, based on the Universe around us.

Mate, that is EXACTLY how religion starts in the first place. Cant figure something out, just say God did it and everyones happy.

you are MADE to believe in something higher then you.. it's a natural defensive/survivle technique of your body..

anytime your pray or meditate, there is a portion of your brain where the veins dialate, making your feel good.. that should be proof in it's self..

higher/altered states also play a role in this..