Should guns be banned in the USA?

[marcus300]

https://netivist.org/debate/should-guns-be-banned

Gun violence and deaths in America: should guns be banned?

We discuss background checks, gun control, and gun violence in America. Should federal gun laws change and the Second Amendment repealed or reinterpreted? Should guns be banned? What type of firearms should be further restricted? Join the debate and vote!

Gun violence in America

On 5 November 2017, 26 people were killed and 20 injured in a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. On 2 October 2017, a man assassinated 59 people and injured more than 500, by shooting to the attendees of a country music concert in Las Vegas. This has become the worst mass shooting in the history of the United States. The previous most deadly shooting took place the previous year, on 12 June 2016, when terrorist attacked on the Pulse night club in Orlando, Florida, killing 49 and injuring 53. This are not not isolated cases. It follows a series of mass shootings, including the San Bernardino attack (16 killed, 19 injured) six months earlier, which have attracted great media attention worldwide. Gun control and gun violence became central issues in the Trump vs Clinton election battle. The Republican and the Democratic candidates adopted diametrically opposed interpretations of the causes and solutions of these problems. In the end the former won the election. One of Donald Trump's promises was to protect the right to bear arms.

Here, we want to discuss, in a constructive way, whether guns should be banned. In order to set the debate we want to share some facts about gun crime.

Gun deaths in America are not at a historic high, but there are reasons to be concerned about the current situation. During the early 1990s, the worst period in recent history, America averaged 13,000 annual homicides by handgun. Gun violence declined in the late 1990s and early 2000s but now it seems to show a new worrisome upward trend. In 2013, firearms caused 11,208 deaths by homicide, 21,175 deaths by suicide, and 505 deaths by accidental discharge. There are about 310 million guns in America.

There have been more than 1,000 mass shootings in American since January 2013, with a total of 1,135 people killed and 2,944 injured. Out of the 136 mass shootings that have taken place this year so far in the US these are the most gruesome:
•June 12, 2016, Orlando, Florida: 49 killed, 53 injured
•May 21, 2016, Moultrie, Georgia, 5 killed
•April 22, 2016, Piketon, Ohio, 8 killed
•April 22, 2016, Appling, Georgia 6 killed
•Mars 9, 2016, Pittsburgh, Pensylvania 5 killed, 3 injured
•February 25, 2016, Hesston, Kansas, 4 killed, 14 injured
•February 23, 2016, Glendale, Arizona, 5 killed
•February 20, 2016, Kalamazoo, Michigan, 6 killed, 2 injured
•January 30, 2016, Glendale Arizona, 3 killed, 5 injured
•January 27, 2016, Chesapeake, Virginia, 6 killed

The rate of gun deaths in America is far larger than that in any other similarly rich and developed country.

Gun homicides per capita in the US are:
•171 times higher than in South Korea
•49 times higher than in Germany
•21 times higer than in Australia
•18 times higher than in Sweden
•16 times higher than in France

Firearms-related deaths per capita (including accidents and suicides) in the US are:
•175 times higher than in Japan
•131 times higher than in South Korea
•45 times higher than in the United Kindom
•17 times higher than in Spain
•5 times higher than in Canada

Should guns be banned?

Obama's gun control plan was received with mix views among Americans. Some saw the reinforcement of gun purchase background checks as a first step in the process of changing federal gun laws to limit the access to firearms to the public. In the the USA there are more than 310 million firearms, roughly one gun per capita, and many analysts see this as one of the most important reasons for school shootings and other mass shootings. Moreover, different studies published in renowned research journals show a correlation between household gun ownership and suicide rates.

Gun control advocacy groups and Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton suggest the need of a legal reform to enhance gun control and keep the guns away from domestic abusers, terrorists, and other violent criminals. Stricter background checks for guns buyers could be implemented. Assault riffles and other automatic and semi-automatic guns should be prohibited to civilians. Many argue for a reinterpretation or repeal of the Second Amendment of the Constitution and a ban on selling, buying and carrying firearms.

On the other hand, gun rights advocates, such as he National Riffle Association (NRA) and the Republican candidate Donald Trump, claim that gun possession is far from being a cause for the increase of gun related attacks. For him guns have a strong deterrent capacity and if more people would have them strapped to their ankles or waist in their everyday lives, killers would think it twice before attempting their atrocities. The Second Amendment of the US Constitution links the right of people to keep and bear arms to the "security of a free state."

Hot questions: Do you think armed teachers and clubgoers are a logical solution to the gun violence problem in America? Are assault rifles and sub-machine guns necessary for self-defense or hunting? Are the current background checks appropriate to identify dangerous gun owners? Is a complete ban of gun ownership necessary? If not, what type of guns should be blacklisted? Are guns necessary to ensure peace? Will or should Donald Trump legalize possession of some of the weapons which have been restricted so far? Share your views on the discussion forum below.

[Couchlock]

Hell to the no

[marcus300]

Piers hitting the headlines over here

[marcus300]

[David LoPan]

Banning Guns has never worked.

[Max562]

he'll no..there the solution to the problems we will be facing soon enough

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

[MuscleScience]

Piers Morgan is a leftist Moron of the first rate. Britain’s (specifically London’s)crime rate has exceeded NYC. And you knobs are gun free.

If it pleases the crown my I please protect my home against armed criminals?






Secondly most firearms deaths in the US are result of suicide. How would you ever stop that?
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/0...-suicides.html

[guitarzan]

Drugs are banned, but it's not very hard to get them. It's actually easier than buying a gun!

[MuscleScience]

Drugs are banned, but it's not very hard to get them. It's actually easier than buying a gun!

It should be illegal to shoot someone with a gun, unless it’s clearly for self defense. LOL

[MuscleScience]

[hollowedzeus]

Theres people i know that shouldnt have a gun... im glad they are banned in the UK.
Kids need a toy because other kids have the toy
People need guns because others have guns
Korea needs nukes because america has nukes.

Maybe nobody should have guns (in a perfect world)

[MuscleScience]

Theres people i know that shouldnt have a gun... im glad they are banned in the UK.
Kids need a toy because other kids have the toy
People need guns because others have guns
Korea needs nukes because america has nukes.

Maybe nobody should have guns (in a perfect world)

Then everyone would have swords, take them away
Then everyone would have knives, take them away
Then everyone would have clubs, take them away...

Cats out of the bag, yes some GOOD people are not comfortable or qualified to handle guns, and they should voluntarily not keep a gun. What seems so boggling to me, is that you create a law and only law abiding citizens will follow it. So now only two entities have guns. Criminals and the government. You really want the two must untrustworthy types of people controlling all the weapons?

[diesel101]

Not to be a smart ass but a perfect example are the people on this forum
Steroids are illegal in the USA and how many of the members on here are from the USA and still buying and using them?
Guns and gun violence will never disappear anyone that wants a gun will still have one even if they are banned.

[almostgone]

Then everyone would have swords, take them away
Then everyone would have knives, take them away
Then everyone would have clubs, take them away...

Cats out of the bag, yes some GOOD people are not comfortable or qualified to handle guns, and they should voluntarily not keep a gun. What seems so boggling to me, is that you create a law and only law abiding citizens will follow it. So now only two entities have guns. Criminals and the government. You really want the two must untrustworthy types of people controlling all the weapons?

In bold above... and vehicles, and pressure cookers.....

[hollowedzeus]

Then everyone would have swords, take them away
Then everyone would have knives, take them away
Then everyone would have clubs, take them away...

Cats out of the bag, yes some GOOD people are not comfortable or qualified to handle guns, and they should voluntarily not keep a gun. What seems so boggling to me, is that you create a law and only law abiding citizens will follow it. So now only two entities have guns. Criminals and the government. You really want the two must untrustworthy types of people controlling all the weapons?

I do see your point. However the way i look at it is if guns arent accessible then there is less shootings...

I have never had a problem defending my home from attackers with guns using only blunt objects

[Cuz]

Take away guns from good guys
Bad guys able to get guns from gangs/cartels and black market
Bad guys break into good guys home, good guy has no chance
End of story

[hollowedzeus]

Take away guns from good guys
Bad guys able to get guns from gangs/cartels and black market
Bad guys break into good guys home, good guy has no chance
End of story

Generally the people that get their hands on guns in such a situation arent going to come to your house asking for you wives jewellary box.

I dont live near places where gun crime is an issue. I can only assume if guns were legal gun crime would explode.

Personally i wouldn't like big dave the smack junkie to be anywhere near a gun.
I feel safer knowing they are harder to get


The people in those other circles can knock themselves out with thw guns in their own field.... gangsters shooting each other bothers me about as much as a junkie getting stabbed off another junkie.

[guitarzan]

It's not that one only needs a gun to protect their self from someone else that has a gun. How would a woman protect herself from a big man that intends to rape her? How would I defend me and my daughter from a gang that attacks us while walking into Walmart? Anyone that thinks guns should be banned is simply not capable of rational thought

[hollowedzeus]

It's not that one only needs a gun to protect their self from someone else that has a gun. How would a woman protect herself from a big man that intends to rape her? How would I defend me and my daughter from a gang that attacks us while walking into Walmart? Anyone that thinks guns should be banned is simply not capable of rational thought

I think you will find the usa has a far higher percentage of rape than the uk does.

I dont think a gun would be much more effective than a rape whistle (think of it like a uk gun). Big bad men dont stop 15 feet away from you in a dark alleyway waiting to be shot.

Guns dont stop rape since most of it comes from a non stranger.

I do noy believe this to be a valid point

[hollowedzeus]

I know im the bad guy on this topic but what the trend seems to be is that countries with guns love guns. Countries without, see the sense in it and would prefer to be without.

However i do think police should be armed. Figure that out

[MuscleScience]

I think you will find the usa has a far higher percentage of rape than the uk does.

I dont think a gun would be much more effective than a rape whistle (think of it like a uk gun). Big bad men dont stop 15 feet away from you in a dark alleyway waiting to be shot.

Guns dont stop rape since most of it comes from a non stranger.

I do noy believe this to be a valid point

The stats would say otherwise.

[hollowedzeus]

I know im the bad guy on this topic but what the trend seems to be is that countries with guns love guns. Countries without, see the sense in it and would prefer to be without.

However i do think police should be armed. Figure that out

[MuscleScience]

Not to be a smart ass but a perfect example are the people on this forum
Steroids are illegal in the USA and how many of the members on here are from the USA and still buying and using them?
Guns and gun violence will never disappear anyone that wants a gun will still have one even if they are banned.

Mexico has 100% gun restriction on its citizens, outside of active war zones, there isnt a place on earth that is more dangerous right now.

Venezuela did a gun confiscation, guess who gets to keep their guns?
The government and communist party loyalist. Now the citizens are fighting a murderous oppressive government with sticks and rocks, guess how it’s going for them?

When Castro took over Cuba, his first order of business was to confiscate all private guns. Guess who got those? You guessed it, communist party loyalist.

Ok let’s look at Israel. Every citizen is required to participate in military service at 18. Reserve military must have a weapon on them at all times. You would think that murder would be rampet among their citizens. It’s safer their than the streets of London.

Ok well let’s look at Europe. Switzerland has compulsory military service. Per capita they have as many of not more guns than the US. Their crime rate is essentially not reportable even with the migration crisis. To compare, Germany, Belgium, Sweden, Denmark and France. All heavily restrictive gun laws have ALL seen all forms of crime skyrocket.

Catalonia, the citizens are not allowed by the Spanish government to own guns. We all saw what happened when they tried to petition for independence. They Spanish military swooped in and bashed all their heads in.


In 1770, King George III stripped private gun onwnership from the American colonist. Guess who got to keep their guns? You guessed it, only the subjects loyal to the king. Not even that, only British Born citizens in the colonies.

How can anyone miss the trend?

[hollowedzeus]

The stats would say otherwise.

If you can show me i will apologise and retract my statement

[MuscleScience]

I know im the bad guy on this topic but what the trend seems to be is that countries with guns love guns. Countries without, see the sense in it and would prefer to be without.

However i do think police should be armed. Figure that out

You’re not a bad guy.

[Cuz]

Generally the people that get their hands on guns in such a situation arent going to come to your house asking for you wives jewellary box.

I dont live near places where gun crime is an issue. I can only assume if guns were legal gun crime would explode.

Personally i wouldn't like big dave the smack junkie to be anywhere near a gun.
I feel safer knowing they are harder to get


The people in those other circles can knock themselves out with thw guns in their own field.... gangsters shooting each other bothers me about as much as a junkie getting stabbed off another junkie.

Can you justify the reasoning behind this? We are talking about U.S. here, just curious how would you know this?

[MuscleScience]

If you can show me i will apologise and retract my statement

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...me-in-a-decade

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...-in-five-years

[hollowedzeus]

Can you justify the reasoning behind this? We are talking about U.S. here, just curious how would you know this?

Everything i say is from my point of view. I cant source anything i say from journals or such.

However if some ganglord had access to assault rifles in my area. He is not going to bother me imo.

I can only speak for myself. Perhaps i was wrong to put that same analogy for the us. I apologise.

[cousinmuscles]

If you can show me i will apologise and retract my statement

Don't have time to look it up now (would appreciate it if anyone remembers) but I remember reading studies showing it depends on the gun laws, in some US states where they're allowed ( crime/homicides were lower even when taking other socioeconomic factors into consideration.

Then again the point you made about cultural aspects is definitely true. It would be unimaginable over here as people wouldn't even see the need for it in self defense.

[hollowedzeus]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...me-in-a-decade

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...-in-five-years

I stand corrected. I had a quick lool at a report that clustered the eu together and it was lower than the usa. Perhaps i should have said eu rather than uk.

Either way i apologise and retract what i said


Edit for reference http://www.nationmaster.com/country-...rime/Rape-rate

[MuscleScience]

I’m going to say something that will probably get me into trouble, but...

I strongly feel not all citizens should have a firearm in the US. Outside of criminals and the mentally ill, regular citizens that just aren’t competent to safely use such weapons.

Before my father allowed me to even have a sling shot or B.B. gun (air rifle) he made me take and extensive hunters safety course. Which in most US States is a requirement to obtaining a hunting license. No such test or licensure is required to purchase a gun. To pass the course and receive my verification I had to demonstrate basic competence with guns. Which is as follows

Laws and regulations pertaining to fire arm usage
Safe operation of a firearm
Proper handling of a firearm at all times
8 hours of classroom study
8 hours or in the field practice
Basic shooting competancy (required amount of targets hit in given time period)
Passage of both a written and practical exam
Register with the State that the certificate was passed
Instructor approval that I was competent to handle a firearm. He had the right to deny passage of the course for any reason even if all other requirements were met.

Some people have never had the benefit of having someone PROPERLY use and handle firearms like my Dad instructed me. By the time I was 10 years old, guns were not mysterious or Foreign to me. I respected them, knew they could be dangerous and never took for granted their power. i do see a lot of people that treat guns as an extension of their dick or ego. I can’t stand that, it gives us all a bad name. Therefor I feel as though before a citizen is allowed to purchase a firearm of any type, they must undergo a licensing procedure. If nothing more that to teach basic safety. I see so many people with their fingers on the trigger not ready to shoot, or muzzle sweep someone and say, oh but it’s unloaded. The single biggest mistake any gun owner makes is assuming the gun isn’t loaded. If it has a firing pin still in the weapon, it should 100% of the time be assumed to BE LOADED.

I also think that would cut down on Murder. Not one single carry and conceal license holder or NRA member has ever been involved in a mass shooting event. But the media tells us that is who is the biggest threat.

[cousinmuscles]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.16f0ca5c9c7e

IMO though I don't think this would produce similar effects if you let people own guns here, it's not the same as in the US. I grew up in the ghettos of ghettos, saw a guy take several bullets to the head when I was at the train station as a teenager, saw people get stabbed, half the streets were dope selling marketplaces/bazaars, at worst for me I'd beat the shit out of another kid or get my ass beat and call my bro and cousins and get revenge. If you let anyone get guns here it would take decades for people to accustom to this, you'd make shooting the cheating partner a regular occurrence until people understood they'll get a life sentence afterwards...

[MuscleScience]

I stand corrected. I had a quick lool at a report that clustered the eu together and it was lower than the usa. Perhaps i should have said eu rather than uk.

Either way i apologise and retract what i said


Edit for reference Countries Compared by Crime > Rape rate. International Statistics at NationMaster.com

No need to apologies, it is every citizens duty to be informed. Especially on issues that effect the liberties of other people.

[kelkel]

I do see your point. However the way i look at it is if guns arent accessible then there is less shootings...

I have never had a problem defending my home from attackers with guns using only blunt objects

So how many times has your home been attacked by criminals with guns?

[MuscleScience]

So how many times has your home been attacked by criminals with guns?

Yeah man, if anyone comes to your door with gun. Just give them what they want. That’s how you get killed.

[hollowedzeus]

So how many times has your home been attacked by criminals with guns?

Not enough times to change my mind on gun legislation

Also my neighbour has a shot gun. Id like to think criminals have enough sense than to tackle a house with access to guns lol. There are far easier pickings elsewhere

[MuscleScience]

Not enough times to change my mind on gun legislation

There are a lot more guns in the UK than you know.

How illegal guns find their way onto British streets despite tough laws - Business Insider

https://www.google.com/amp/www.mirro...ts-7598164.amp

https://www.google.com/amp/www.breit...in-europe/amp/

[kelkel]

Not enough times to change my mind on gun legislation

Also my neighbour has a shot gun. Id like to think criminals have enough sense than to tackle a house with access to guns lol. There are far easier pickings elsewhere

No offense, but I don't believe your home was attacked.

[hollowedzeus]

There are a lot more guns in the UK than you know.

How illegal guns find their way onto British streets despite tough laws - Business Insider

https://www.google.com/amp/www.mirro...ts-7598164.amp

https://www.google.com/amp/www.breit...in-europe/amp/

Yeah someone got shot a few miles away from me in a towns park. But i still think it would be a bigger issue if they were open to the public.

No offense, but I don't believe your home was attacked.

None taken. I was fibbing

[MuscleScience]

Yeah someone got shot a few miles away from me in a towns park. But i still think it would be a bigger issue if they were open to the public.



None taken. I was fibbing

The only thing that would go up, according to the data out there is suicide by use of a gun. Obviously it’s a more efficent tool to kill ones self vs hanging, cutting or chemical poisoning. Law abiding citizens with firearms are not the problem.

That’s another fallacy in the gun control argument. That suddenly in mass, if citizens legally acquire a gun they just start killing people. I’m sure it happens on very rare occasions, but it’s silly to use the exception as the rule in any legal or academic argument.