Should guns be banned in the USA?

[kelkel]

Well crap, I must have missed the sarcasm. I'm so used to giving it and not receiving it!

[clarky.]

Great topic.

[thisAngelBites]

Great topic.

Haha, I was just laughing to myself about Marcus the Instigator stirring the pot with these provocative threads and then sitting out.

[hollowedzeus]

Well crap, I must have missed the sarcasm. I'm so used to giving it and not receiving it!

It must be my accent. I will enunciate in future.

[kelkel]

It must be my accent. I will enunciate in future.

I'll turn my hearing aid up.

[hollowedzeus]

I'll turn my hearing aid up.

Pardon?

[songdog]

I do see your point. However the way i look at it is if guns arent accessible then there is less shootings...

I have never had a problem defending my home from attackers with guns using only blunt objects

it has been proven that when guns were outlawed crime increased.And in the UK sorry guy but your cops were getting their asses kicked by people with weapons and they were empty handed.Break into my house and you will be laying there when the police arrive in a puddle of blood.

[songdog]

If you can show me i will apologise and retract my statement

You just need to check your history son when ever the goverment takes your guns your rights are not far behind.

[Obs]

Absolutely! Ban them now and collect them immediately. Start with my house first. I will set the pace for what will be the bloodiest day the earth has ever seen. When day one is over no one will remember anything the left had to say and democrat will be a word said only in memory.

This ain't Europe and I am not a fucking boy scout. You have no idea how many millions there are just like me.
Thousands upon thousands already have established fire teams and the boys actually know what they are doing.


Seriously though come get them so we can end the gun control debate for good.


Marcus, should bombs be banned in Manchester?
Just curious...

[hammerheart]

The gun "culture" over the US is something as a European I do envy, now I don't know how things actually works but imo more reasonable requirements are needed for ppl to qualify for gun possession, especially in the department of mental sanity.

How come the crazies do get to legally possess assault rifles?

[guitarzan]

Hollow, considering you are only 18, I'm sure your under the influence of liberal teachers. You probably don't even own a house, or have children to defend. While you may live in a bubblegum word where everything Is taken care of for you, and choose to defend yourself with a blunt object, I think I will choose to keep my firearms

[EDCG19]

Ban guns?

How many people are going to give them up?

[Sh0tsf1red]

I’m going to say something that will probably get me into trouble, but...

I strongly feel not all citizens should have a firearm in the US. Outside of criminals and the mentally ill, regular citizens that just aren’t competent to safely use such weapons.

Before my father allowed me to even have a sling shot or B.B. gun (air rifle) he made me take and extensive hunters safety course. Which in most US States is a requirement to obtaining a hunting license. No such test or licensure is required to purchase a gun. To pass the course and receive my verification I had to demonstrate basic competence with guns. Which is as follows

Laws and regulations pertaining to fire arm usage
Safe operation of a firearm
Proper handling of a firearm at all times
8 hours of classroom study
8 hours or in the field practice
Basic shooting competancy (required amount of targets hit in given time period)
Passage of both a written and practical exam
Register with the State that the certificate was passed
Instructor approval that I was competent to handle a firearm. He had the right to deny passage of the course for any reason even if all other requirements were met.

Some people have never had the benefit of having someone PROPERLY use and handle firearms like my Dad instructed me. By the time I was 10 years old, guns were not mysterious or Foreign to me. I respected them, knew they could be dangerous and never took for granted their power. i do see a lot of people that treat guns as an extension of their dick or ego. I can’t stand that, it gives us all a bad name. Therefor I feel as though before a citizen is allowed to purchase a firearm of any type, they must undergo a licensing procedure. If nothing more that to teach basic safety. I see so many people with their fingers on the trigger not ready to shoot, or muzzle sweep someone and say, oh but it’s unloaded. The single biggest mistake any gun owner makes is assuming the gun isn’t loaded. If it has a firing pin still in the weapon, it should 100% of the time be assumed to BE LOADED.

I also think that would cut down on Murder. Not one single carry and conceal license holder or NRA member has ever been involved in a mass shooting event. But the media tells us that is who is the biggest threat.

You familiar with the constitution ?

[Sh0tsf1red]

Shall not be infringed

[MuscleScience]

You familiar with the constitution ?

Yep,

[MuscleScience]

Shall not be infringed

We are going to have to do something politically or an outright reversal of the second amendment is going to happen. Time is on the anti-guns side. With each and every generation, the youth values the ideals of America less and less.

I think the Second amendment is going to be akin to the slavery question in the 17th and 18th century. Start to finish it took the abolishinest 100 plus years, but they got it done.

[Sh0tsf1red]

We are going to have to do something politically or an outright reversal of the second amendment is going to happen. Time is on the anti-guns side. With each and every generation, the youth values the ideals of America less and less.

I think the Second amendment is going to be akin to the slavery question in the 17th and 18th century. Start to finish it took the abolishinest 100 plus years, but they got it done.

I agree we have to do something.... Get people like you to drop the defeatist mentality. You make it sound like the battle is already lost.

If you were born in USA, it is your God given right. Idk about you but that means a lot to me.

'From my cold dead hands'

[MuscleScience]

I agree we have to do something.... Get people like you to drop the defeatist mentality. You make it sound like the battle is already lost.

If you were born in USA, it is your God given right. Idk about you but that means a lot to me.

'From my cold dead hands'

I’m not defeatist, it’s just how it’s going to play out. Nobody looks at the data they simply look at the headlines and go on emotion and group think. All these mentiallu I’ll people with weapons, we have to get serious about preventing and taking perminately or temporarily their access to weaponry.

[MuscleScience]

Case in point, assault rifles.

No US citizen has access to so called assault rifles since 1986.
Citizens can own Semi-auto Modern Sport Rifles such as the AR15 or the Mini 14. But we have allowed the classification change to happen so now an AR15 is considered an Assault Rifle. I don’t hear anyone of significance challenging that asseration.

[Sh0tsf1red]

Case in point, assault rifles.

No US citizen has access to so called assault rifles since 1986.
Citizens can own Semi-auto Modern Sport Rifles such as the AR15 or the Mini 14. But we have allowed the classification change to happen so now an AR15 is considered an Assault Rifle. I don’t hear anyone of significance challenging that asseration.

There is no such thing as an 'assault rifle', assault is a verb

There have never been any 'classification changes', I assume you are referring to the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986. That just restricted who could purchase fully automatic firearms.

The term "AR-15" comes from ArmaLite rifles, the company that developed them in the 1950s. AR-15 is simply a model number.

[Sh0tsf1red]

I’m not defeatist, it’s just how it’s going to play out. Nobody looks at the data they simply look at the headlines and go on emotion and group think. All these mentiallu I’ll people with weapons, we have to get serious about preventing and taking perminately or temporarily their access to weaponry.

What about mentally ill people accessing vehicles? Far more deaths every day on the road..

Where do you draw the line, comrade?

[guitarzan]

I agree with MS. It's not folks like us giving up, it's the pussafacation of our younger generations that will give in.

[MuscleScience]

There is no such thing as an 'assault rifle', assault is a verb

There have never been any 'classification changes', I assume you are referring to the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986. That just restricted who could purchase fully automatic firearms.

The term "AR-15" comes from ArmaLite rifles, the company that developed them in the 1950s. AR-15 is simply a model number.

What about mentally ill people accessing vehicles? Far more deaths every day on the road..

Where do you draw the line, comrade?

I’m well aware of all of this. You have any suggestions?

[guitarzan]

Mentally I'll people should not be allowed to drive either

[MuscleScience]

I agree with MS. It's not folks like us giving up, it's the pussafacation of our younger generations that will give in.

Somebody gets it lol.

By the way, check this out. Are AR15’s are weapons of war now

[MuscleScience]

No a huge Glen Beck fan but he does a good job going over the gun control data.

[hollowedzeus]

Hollow, considering you are only 18, I'm sure your under the influence of liberal teachers. You probably don't even own a house, or have children to defend. While you may live in a bubblegum word where everything Is taken care of for you, and choose to defend yourself with a blunt object, I think I will choose to keep my firearms

19 thank you.

But yes you are correct, im young, still live with my parents, dont have any children that i know of...

I very much have a blindfold over my eyes.

Re-introducing guns into the UK is a great idea. Golly, if only i was your age and as clever as yourself. Id have realised this so much sooner.

You have done me a service, i wont forget this debt sir

[hollowedzeus]

I seem to be upsetting some people so i will be sitting this thread out from here

[kelkel]

Somebody gets it lol.

By the way, check this out. Are AR15’s are weapons of war now

Ironically from a sitting Senator currently awaiting a jury verdict on corruption and bribery charges. But the media barely reports it.....

[songdog]

19 thank you.

But yes you are correct, im young, still live with my parents, dont have any children that i know of...

I very much have a blindfold over my eyes.

Re-introducing guns into the UK is a great idea. Golly, if only i was your age and as clever as yourself. Id have realised this so much sooner.

You have done me a service, i wont forget this debt sir

Wat do you mean not that you know of? YOU know dam well you ain't never had any so don't go talking smack but it's ok to be a 19 year old virgin I know it makes your mommy happy you ain't out playing around

[guitarzan]

I seem to be upsetting some people so i will be sitting this thread out from here

Who's upset?

[cousinmuscles]

Wat do you mean not that you know of? YOU know dam well you ain't never had any so don't go talking smack but it's ok to be a 19 year old virgin I know it makes your mommy happy you ain't out playing around

Personal attacks is something I thought would make the forum better off if they weren't allowed but here we have a monitor doing it, but anyway...

Being so old and wise, can't you take into consideration the cultural differences? It would take an old and experienced person to understand what works in one place of the world doesn't in another. You can obtain a gun here in Sweden but it is _very_ difficult, so difficult that a terrorist would rather build a bomb on their own instead. It is also very unlikely you will ever end up in a scenario where someone is trying to break into your home while you're inside. You would have to take into consideration crime rate to see that in this case the cons outweigh the pros if you made it easier.

The argument of defending yourself against the state is also obsolete considering it isnt the 17th century and your handgun will do nothing against military.

[songdog]

Personal attacks is something I thought would make the forum better off if they weren't allowed but here we have a monitor doing it, but anyway...

Being so old and wise, can't you take into consideration the cultural differences? It would take an old and experienced person to understand what works in one place of the world doesn't in another. You can obtain a gun here in Sweden but it is _very_ difficult, so difficult that a terrorist would rather build a bomb on their own instead. It is also very unlikely you will ever end up in a scenario where someone is trying to break into your home while you're inside. You would have to take into consideration crime rate to see that in this case the cons outweigh the pros if you made it easier.

The argument of defending yourself against the state is also obsolete considering it isnt the 17th century and your handgun will do nothing against military.

Was not an attack I was refering to his statement saying he didn't think he had kids!I don't care which side of the fence he is on when it comes too guns beacuse he lives in the UK.I just wanted to tease him for a bit!

[marcus300]

One mass shooting every day: Seven facts about gun violence in America


America's latest mass shooting incident, at a church in Texas on Sunday, has left at least 26 people dead and 20 injured, making it the worst in the state's history .

It comes just one month after Stephen Paddock's gun attack at a Las Vegas country music festival which left a record 59 dead and hundreds more injured.

The frequency of this kind of event risks anaesthetising us to the number of people who die from shootings in one of the world's most developed nations. The numbers are staggering.

1. Texas is often at the frontline of mass shootings

In 2015, there were 45 deaths from Texan mass shootings. In 2016, the state saw 39 victims. This year, the running total is 57.

While individual large tragedies may skew the data for particular years, Texas is consistently bad for gun violence.

After the Las Vegas attack, Nevada has suffered the most deaths from mass shootings this year - at 59 deaths - but it is also worst when we make the number proportional to a state's population.

It being a small state, Nevada has now had 20 mass shooting deaths per one million of its people in 2017 - with the next highest rates seen in Mississippi (7.7 per million) and Kansas (3.8 per million).

Having 27.9m people, the large state of Texas has seen mass shootings claim the lives of 2.1 people for every million of its population.


2. The Las Vegas mass shooting wasn't the only mass shooting in America that day

While the scale of the attack in Las Vegas on 1 October is unparalleled, it wasn't the only mass shooting to occur in the US that day.

Some 13,000 miles away in Lawrence, just outside the University of Kansas in Kansas, two men and a woman were killed and a further two people injured in a mass shooting incident.

While none of the three victims were students at the university, all were in their early twenties, with one of the young men recently having become a father, according to the local press.

Mass shootings in America - defined by the website Gun Violence Archive as an event where at least four people are shot - are now an everyday event.

The Las Vegas attack makes October the most deadly month for mass shootings this year - although not by as much as some may think, given the scale of the atrocity.



3. One major mass shooting every two months

This year's deaths follow a depressing trend, according to data gathered by the Gun Violence Archive.

Some 346 people are estimated to have been killed in American mass shootings this year. This compared to 432 in 2016, and 369 in 2015 - more than one person for every day of the year.

When it comes to major mass shootings (where more than four people are killed), there have been an average of just 72 days between events during the period of 2010 to 2017 .

This is a far more frequent rate when compared to the average gap of 162 days from 2000 to 2010, according to data compiled by Mother Jones.

The two worst mass shooting events - October's Las Vegas shooting and the Pulse nightclub atrocity in Orlando - have occurred in the last two years.

More than a person a day have been killed in US mass shootings in recent years

4. Firearms sales go up after mass shootings

Data from the FBI shows us that there have been 270 million firearms background checks since November 1998 - and the number is increasing as time goes by.

Such background checks, initiated through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), do not represent the number of firearms sold - but they do give us an idea as to interest in buying guns across the country.

In an alarming pattern identified by the New York Times, the fear of firearms restrictions is a significant driver of gun sales - with mass shootings and other attacks being another, although to a lesser extent.

For example, December 2015 saw the highest number of background checks to date - at 3.3m. This followed the San Bernardino terror attack in November, in which 14 people died and after which Obama called for tighter restrictions on the purchase of assault rifles

5. 270m guns for 320m people

In 2007, the Small Arms Survey estimated that there were between 250m and 290m civilian-owned firearms in the US - a rate of around 90 per 100 people.

This was the highest rate of civilian guns for any of the 178 countries that were surveyed and was ahead of Yemen (55 guns per 100 civilians) in second place by quite some distance.

Higher rates of gun ownership correlate strongly with occurrences of mass shootings with the US emerging at the top of tree when it came to mass shootings per head in a study by Jaclyn Schildkraut of the State University of New York.




6. Mass shootings are just the tip of the gun deaths iceberg

Between 2001 and 2013, 406,496 people died as a result of gun violence in America according to the Centre for Disease Control and Prevention.

Of this number the majority - 237,052 - were actually suicides as opposed to homicides.

Homicides accounted for 153,144 deaths over this period while the rest comprised 8,383 accidental deaths, 4,778 deaths from police shootings and 3,200 where the cause couldn't be determined.

In this context, mass shootings make up a comparatively small proportion of overall gun deaths in the US, accounting for around three per cent of homicides in 2017 so far according to the Gun Violence Archive.



7. Americans can't agree on gun control

The debate over gun rights and restrictions is not a new one in America - and it's opened up every time another mass shooting catches the public's attention.

The latest polling from the Pew Research Centre shows that 47 per cent of Americans support protecting gun rights - compared to 51 per cent who support gun control (6 April 2017).

This polling has tightened over the last two decades - when 65 per cent were in favour of gun control in May 1999 - ensuring that the debate continues to rage on.

One mass shooting every day: Seven facts about gun violence in America

[guitarzan]

Was not an attack I was refering to his statement saying he didn't think he had kids!I don't care which side of the fence he is on when it comes too guns beacuse he lives in the UK.I just wanted to tease him for a bit!

You put a smiley face at the end, how could that be taken as an attack?

[Obs]

What about mentally ill people accessing vehicles? Far more deaths every day on the road..

Where do you draw the line, comrade?

In America we like to say, "freedom is not free" or "freedom is not without a price".

Most think this applies only to soldiers and war.
It applies to every single freedom you have.
Legislation strips rights slowly over time when we allow it.

Want gun rights? Well... Innocent lives will be lost.
Want the right to drive?
100 times as many innocent lives will be lost.
Want electric space heaters?
Want cigarettes?
Blowdryers?

Sorry but back when everyone wasn't a pussy, we understood the cost of freedom.

I won't get in the cage so I can be safe.
It's not a God given right. Its a right I will fight to the death for and this right will never be taken from me. My rights can be stripped from my dead body, but the theives will find they lose more bodies than I do. Thats a promise.

[cousinmuscles]

Was not an attack I was refering to his statement saying he didn't think he had kids!I don't care which side of the fence he is on when it comes too guns beacuse he lives in the UK.I just wanted to tease him for a bit!

Oops I misread this in the context of guitarzans reply to him LOL!

Well then redirect the argument I made to guitarzan, making gun laws more lax in countries with much lower crime rates than in the US would not produce the same effects. The cultural differences are huge, apart from the crime rates too...

[Obs]

We have got to get these vehicles off the roadway though.

They kill people constantly.
Get in the cage people and your government will take care of you.

[cousinmuscles]

We have got to get these vehicles off the roadway though.

They kill people constantly.
Get in the cage people and your government will take care of you.

Don't get me wrong, you can get a gun here legally, and I would too the moment I felt I needed one for my safety, but it is not that easy. But the argument of defending yourself against the state just doesn't hold. If you direct that kind of violence against the police you're going to have special forces come and get you, and if you give them a hard time then they'll snipe you. What do you do when the military comes after you? Start using nukes, satellites, heat sensing infrared cameras, helicopters, fighter jets? Or just up the tren ?

[Couchlock]

Generally the people that get their hands on guns in such a situation arent going to come to your house asking for you wives jewellary box.

I dont live near places where gun crime is an issue. I can only assume if guns were legal gun crime would explode.

Personally i wouldn't like big dave the smack junkie to be anywhere near a gun.
I feel safer knowing they are harder to get


The people in those other circles can knock themselves out with thw guns in their own field.... gangsters shooting each other bothers me about as much as a junkie getting stabbed off another junkie.

I agree we have to do something.... Get people like you to drop the defeatist mentality. You make it sound like the battle is already lost.

If you were born in USA, it is your God given right. Idk about you but that means a lot to me.

'From my cold dead hands'

Dave the junkie couldn't even afford dope, let alone a gun

Chris Rock had a perfect solution to the gun violence problem years ago, make bullets cost $5,000 each then I bet you people be more selective about going crazy or shooting someone for the fuck of it