Guns and Ammo Thread

[Cuz]

The communists are not going to ever stop until all rights are stripped from the individual. Attacking the 2a is only part of their plan. They're going after everything. The only way this is going to end is with civil war and they know this. That's why they're going as hard for the guns.

While all this horseshit news media and police brutality shit is being shoved down our throats there is a serious crisis right now. No ammo, and military style weapons are hard to find now as well. I hope we recover from this

[Honkey_Kong]

While all this horseshit news media and police brutality shit is being shoved down our throats there is a serious crisis right now. No ammo, and military style weapons are hard to find now as well. I hope we recover from this

Well hang on to your spent primers. If this prime-all stuff I ordered ends up being the real deal, we'll be back in business.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Sitting on enough 9mm that I justified it....

Can’t wait to shoot it!

[Honkey_Kong]

Sitting on enough 9mm that I justified it....

Can’t wait to shoot it!

Damn. I want a Scorpion too.

[Cuz]

Say hello to my little friend. Just picked this stripped down AR 10 308 up. Goodies coming soon, cant wait to shoot this fucker

[SampsonandDelilah]

Say hello to my little friend. Just picked this stripped down AR 10 308 up. Goodies coming soon, cant wait to shoot this fucker

Hell yes!! Such a fun cartridge to shoot! Crazy difference between the rounds too. The match grade shit is expensive but man it groups so much better. Be interesting to hear what you think. Load up when you find it! Hoard that shit, lol

[SampsonandDelilah]

In Colorado, our same day background checks are taking 3 days! Felt like forever til I could get my mitts on that scorpion. How long is it taking in AL?
I’ve heard good things on the DB’s lineup.

Shelves bare of ammo like here? A pallet will come in and there will be a line a mile long waiting on their 2 box maximum. It’s unreal. Hard to find online too. Decent brass 9mm is next to impossible.

Didn’t have nearly as hard of a time with .308 though which is nice, especially with the match grade shit, but damn it’s pricey to shoot

[almostgone]

In Colorado, our same day background checks are taking 3 days! Felt like forever til I could get my mitts on that scorpion. How long is it taking in AL?
I’ve heard good things on the DB’s lineup.

Shelves bare of ammo like here? A pallet will come in and there will be a line a mile long waiting on their 2 box maximum. It’s unreal. Hard to find online too. Decent brass 9mm is next to impossible.

Didn’t have nearly as hard of a time with .308 though which is nice, especially with the match grade shit, but damn it’s pricey to shoot

Most of the retailers are saying primers are the bottleneck in the ammo manufacturing pipeline.

Speaking of ammo, Midway had a decent markdown on some blem bullets. Grabbed 400 of what looks like Sierra GameKings. Figure I'll load up a small batch when I get around to it.

Turned 56 recently and Mrs. AG snagged me a few boxes of .270 Win. for my b'day. Some HSM and some Underwood ammo.

The HSM was surprisingly group friendly ( it uses Berger VLD bullets).

I need to borrow a Chrono for the Underwood .270 Win. I believe it is even a little hotter than factory specs.

Cuz, I didn't know you live in Alabama. I used to live a few blocks from the Tennessee River in Decatur ages ago when I was a kid . If you could stay clear of the cottonmouths, moccasins, and copperheads, the channel catfishing was phenomenal. Hopefully the industry and Browns Ferry nuke plant hasn't crapped up the river.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Happy belated birthday AG!!

[Honkey_Kong]

Most of the retailers are saying primers are the bottleneck in the ammo manufacturing pipeline.

Speaking of ammo, Midway had a decent markdown on some blem bullets. Grabbed 400 of what looks like Sierra GameKings. Figure I'll load up a small batch when I get around to it.

Turned 56 recently and Mrs. AG snagged me a few boxes of .270 Win. for my b'day. Some HSM and some Underwood ammo.

The HSM was surprisingly group friendly ( it uses Berger VLD bullets).

I need to borrow a Chrono for the Underwood .270 Win. I believe it is even a little hotter than factory specs.

Cuz, I didn't know you live in Alabama. I used to live a few blocks from the Tennessee River in Decatur ages ago when I was a kid . If you could stay clear of the cottonmouths, moccasins, and copperheads, the channel catfishing was phenomenal. Hopefully the industry and Browns Ferry nuke plant hasn't crapped up the river.

Yeah, I hear the same thing. And they're working around the clock to try to meet the demand, but it's just not enough. The only way they could meet the current demand is if they build new factories and that's a massive investment that could ruin them if demand goes back to normal.

[Cuz]

Yeah bros. Im very close to the nuclear plant AG, its still going strong from what I understand. For the background check it went thru in about 5 minutes this time, last time a fee months back it took about 10 days first time it had ever happened i made a post about it lol ya i was upset.

I got cheap ammo to just plink around with for now, when i get it dialed in ill buy some good stuff and see what it likes.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Yeah bros. Im very close to the nuclear plant AG, its still going strong from what I understand. For the background check it went thru in about 5 minutes this time, last time a fee months back it took about 10 days first time it had ever happened i made a post about it lol ya i was upset.

I got cheap ammo to just plink around with for now, when i get it dialed in ill buy some good stuff and see what it likes.

In February I bought a Glock 19 and a .22 bolt gun for my 10 year old and we were out in 10 minutes. Fast forward a couple of months and it’s pandemonium. No ammo and averaging 2-4 to pick up a purchase. People are scared and election years make people nervous (especially this one). Awesome you found ammo. I stockpiled some loose .308 in ammo cans and am so happy I did. Is it the tightest grouping ammo? Hell no.

But guess what? It makes it way out the end of the barrel and is there to defend my castle if necessary. With the those 25 round P mags, I take solace in knowing I can get rounds down range quickly in a pinch. Lot of these long distance guys I read about on the forums are such princesses about what they shoot. I’ll take something over nothing, even it isn’t sub 1 MOA, you know it’ll get the job done defending the fort, which at the end of the day is all I care about.

Glad you found some boxes!!

[Honkey_Kong]

In February I bought a Glock 19 and a .22 bolt gun for my 10 year old and we were out in 10 minutes. Fast forward a couple of months and it’s pandemonium. No ammo and averaging 2-4 to pick up a purchase. People are scared and election years make people nervous (especially this one). Awesome you found ammo. I stockpiled some loose .308 in ammo cans and am so happy I did. Is it the tightest grouping ammo? Hell no.

But guess what? It makes it way out the end of the barrel and is there to defend my castle if necessary. With the those 25 round P mags, I take solace in knowing I can get rounds down range quickly in a pinch. Lot of these long distance guys I read about on the forums are such princesses about what they shoot. I’ll take something over nothing, even it isn’t sub 1 MOA, you know it’ll get the job done defending the fort, which at the end of the day is all I care about.

Glad you found some boxes!!

Is there still .22lr out there? I was thinking about getting a Henry AR-7 just to go plinking with. But if even that ammo is sold out, I wouldn't even bother.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Is there still .22lr out there? I was thinking about getting a Henry AR-7 just to go plinking with. But if even that ammo is sold out, I wouldn't even bother.

Funny you ask...the .22lr went first!

I think everyone had the same idea. Stinks because my oldest son just got his first .22 in March and we can hardly shoot it because ammo is so sparse.

[Cuz]

The only thing i cant obtain here in the south is 5.56...so what does a man do? He buys a bigger fuckin gun!!

[SampsonandDelilah]

Sweetness!!! Went with a Vortex too, I see

Been loving mine! Great glass and you don’t need to sell an organ to own one

[Cuz]

Sweetness!!! Went with a Vortex too, I see

Been loving mine! Great glass and you don’t need to sell an organ to own one

Lmfao no kidding man. Im impressed with the glass its just as good as my swarovski for half cost. It will do what i need it to i think. I love it so far, put 3 rounds thru it yesterday just to see how it was and damn it was nice. Love the 308

[almostgone]

The only thing i cant obtain here in the south is 5.56...so what does a man do? He buys a bigger fuckin gun!!

....and you're right @ Redstone Arsenal. Just saying.

[almostgone]

Lmfao no kidding man. Im impressed with the glass its just as good as my swarovski for half cost. It will do what i need it to i think. I love it so far, put 3 rounds thru it yesterday just to see how it was and damn it was nice. Love the 308

The last scope I bought was a Leupold VX-R 4-12 x50mm. It's a discontinued model so the price was right. I've looked through Swarovskis before and they're nice scopes, but for my old eyes their glass gives a bit of a muddy look to everything.

IDK, it may just be I expected more for their cost. Again, they're nice scopes and I know good glass usually costs more than the rifle, but dang @ the dent it puts in the wallet!

[Cuz]

The last scope I bought was a Leupold VX-R 4-12 x50mm. It's a discontinued model so the price was right. I've looked through Swarovskis before and they're nice scopes, but for my old eyes their glass gives a bit of a muddy look to everything.

IDK, it may just be I expected more for their cost. Again, they're nice scopes and I know good glass usually costs more than the rifle, but dang @ the dent it puts in the wallet!

Mine isnt a top line swaro but its still pretty crisp. But i dont think ill buy another one for a long while it definitely looks good tho atop the rifle

[Beetlegeuse]

If the 2nd Amendment doesn't protect the modern sporting rifle, then it must necessarily follow that the 1st Amendment does not protect speech delivered by radio, television, the Internet or the electrostatic printing press. And as I elaborated to in great detail this past June, anybody who says the Founding Fathers could not have conceived of even a semi-automatic firearm is either ignorant of the history of firearms ... or a liar. Point of fact, there already were fledgling "assault rifles" in existence in 1776 but -- and I'm sure the Founding Fathers also would have been keenly aware -- these arms were held back from reaching their full potential by immature technology, primarily the lack of a one-piece ammunition cartridge, which was further waiting on the development of a reliable ignition system (the primer). Even the first builders of gunpowder-powered devices coveted a weapon capable of high rates of fire all the way back to the beginning of the Second Millennium AD.

By comparison, electricity was still regarded as tantamount to magic so it's safe to presume that those same men genuinely would have had no friggin' concept of even the electric light. The electric motor owes it existence to James Clerk Maxwell's 1873 "A Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism," which first proposed the connection between electricity and magnetism. So the fundamental principle that makes the electric motor, the vacuum tube and the integrated circuit possible wasn't so much as theorized until almost a century after the American Revolution. The first prototype telegraph wasn't even invented until 1816.

So if 2A doesn't protect ARs and AKs, then it's nonsensical to claim that 2A protects any form of communication apart hand-written notes, the manual printing press (with movable lead type), and the town crier.

The Founders Wanted You to Own an AR-15

By David Harsanyi
October 13, 2020 4:28 PM

In his questioning of Amy Coney Barrett regarding an Indiana case about a non-violent felon and his constitutional right to bear arms, Illinois senator Dick Durbin dropped numerous false claims about Chicago gun crimes. But he topped it all off with one of the most egregiously inane arguments used against the private ownership of guns:

When that Second Amendment was written . . . we were talking about the likelihood that a person could purchase a muzzle-loading musket.

Durbin went on to say that the logical conclusion of the “originalist” position on firearms should be that the Founders were referring to flintlock muskets rather than modern “military weapons.” (A purposefully misleading labelling of semi-automatic rifles that Democrats are trying to ban.)

Originalism, of course, isn’t the same as literalism. Even it were, Durbin would be wrong. Because the right to self-defense isn’t predicated on any one specific weapon but a principle. Which is why the Second Amendment doesn’t guarantee the right of individuals to “keep and bear Kentucky rifles” any more than the First Amendment guarantees the right of individuals to “write on parchment paper” or to worship “in Anglican and Presbyterian churches.”

Contemporary legislators have the hubris to believe that the Founders hadn’t envisioned any kind of technological advances in firearm technology. It’s an argument tantamount to claiming that free-speech protections are not operable because James Madison couldn’t foresee the incredible speed with which information can be disseminated on the Internet.

Not only did legislators in the late 18th-century witness the advent and adoption of long-range Pennsylvania rifles — ones that could fire at 300 yards with decent precision rather than 50 yards with none — but they were likely acquainted with the existence of weapons such as air-powered repeating rifles that could fire .46-caliber lead balls about 40 times before losing muzzle velocity. No Founder ever said, “hey maybe we made a mistake.” In fact, in the subsequent 150 years — through the rise of the revolver, the repeating rifle, and the gas-powered automatic weapons — no one ever challenged the idea that the Second Amendment protected anything but an individual right. Heller, the decision that so infuriated leftists, simply reaffirmed what had been obvious to everyone since 1789.

The Second Amendment is predicated on the principle that people have the right defend themselves and their liberties. The right to bear arms, in fact, is older than the right to free speech or freedom of religion. The English Bill of Rights, a document cataloging the crimes of James II and codifying the “ancient and indubitable” rights of English citizens in 1689, includes the right to “arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law.” Well, for Protestants. By 1765, William Blackstone, whose writings helped define the English common-law legal system, wrote that “the natural right of resistance and self-preservation, when the sanctions of society and laws are found insufficient to restrain the violence of oppression.”

Not one Founder mentioned anything about “hunting” or “skeet shooting” during the debates over the drafting of the Constitution.

The founding generation believed that firearms should be used to guarantee the universal and inalienable liberties of the people laid out in the Constitution — whether they were in the government or not. Thankfully, there is no need of insurrection now. But the presence of armed citizenry is always a good bulwark against tyranny. Just in case.

And a musket simply won’t do.

[Beetlegeuse]

The ATF has put their ban on the Honey Badger's 'brace' on hold for 60 days. Playing kick-the-can until after the election.

__________________________________________________ ___________________

If you've been losing sleep over whether the .45 or 9millie is better for SD when you're underwater, Recoil Web has your back.

[Cuz]

Listen im a Trumper but I honestly dont think he gives a fuck about 2A, if he did, he would put the atf in their place. Ive seen his ads and he frequently posts about 2A. Just seems to me its not really priority. Biden I firmly believe would do his best banning AR’s ive heard him say on more than one occasion “you dont need a 30 round mag” ....well in that case i dont “need” a 600hp car either but its nice to have if you like that sort of thing. Our gun rights are being infringed upon and i dont like it. The atf needs to sit down

[DustMan]

Listen im a Trumper but I honestly dont think he gives a fuck about 2A, if he did, he would put the atf in their place. Ive seen his ads and he frequently posts about 2A. Just seems to me its not really priority. Biden I firmly believe would do his best banning AR’s ive heard him say on more than one occasion “you dont need a 30 round mag” ....well in that case i dont “need” a 600hp car either but its nice to have if you like that sort of thing. Our gun rights are being infringed upon and i dont like it. The atf needs to sit down

I don't think people should have access to guns for reasons you are probably already aware of, I'm not here to argue over it, I just want to say that I totally get the 600hp car analogy because I fucking love guns man. A cousin of mine is a total gun nut, he's got holo scopes and .45 calibers and sniper rifles, everything, and there are few things more satisfying than an afternoon of shooting down at the range.

[Cuz]

I don't think people should have access to guns for reasons you are probably already aware of, I'm not here to argue over it, I just want to say that I totally get the 600hp car analogy because I fucking love guns man. A cousin of mine is a total gun nut, he's got holo scopes and .45 calibers and sniper rifles, everything, and there are few things more satisfying than an afternoon of shooting down at the range.

I think we need a harsher justice system man. Give criminals tougher sentences, death penalty’s and so on. Instead of penalizing EVERYONE by taking away gun rights, lets just punish the ones that break the law. And dont get me wrong sometimes the system does work. I know we got overcrowded prisons and all the nonsense , kill these fucking hard criminals and crime will go down. Its a theory anyway. Guys like me and u who are responsible gun owners take the blow.

Take 2017 ok we lost bumpfire stocks... they were cool, i was gonna order one but hey no big deal right...i guess.

[Honkey_Kong]

I don't think people should have access to guns for reasons you are probably already aware of, I'm not here to argue over it, I just want to say that I totally get the 600hp car analogy because I fucking love guns man. A cousin of mine is a total gun nut, he's got holo scopes and .45 calibers and sniper rifles, everything, and there are few things more satisfying than an afternoon of shooting down at the range.

I need a car with 760hp.

I think we need a harsher justice system man. Give criminals tougher sentences, death penalty’s and so on. Instead of penalizing EVERYONE by taking away gun rights, lets just punish the ones that break the law. And dont get me wrong sometimes the system does work. I know we got overcrowded prisons and all the nonsense , kill these fucking hard criminals and crime will go down. Its a theory anyway. Guys like me and u who are responsible gun owners take the blow.

Take 2017 ok we lost bumpfire stocks... they were cool, i was gonna order one but hey no big deal right...i guess.

The main reason for these gun laws isn't to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. It's solely about making a population with absolutely no defense for any crimes the government wants to commit against those people. 2A is not about defending yourself from some thugs that break in to your house (it's a nice side-effect). It's about defending against a tyrant government.

But yeah, I think we should be tougher with our penalties for crimes. But then again, anything where "the state" is the victim shouldn't be a crime. Nobody should be in jail because they have or sell drugs and they shouldn't be in jail for using them either. People should have the freedom to make poor life choices. At the same time, pedophiles, rapists and murders should get put down instead of housed in prison. There is no rehabilitating them.

[Beetlegeuse]

Listen im a Trumper but I honestly dont think he gives a fuck about 2A, if he did, he would put the atf in their place. ...

I doubt he cares about 2A other than it's an integral part of the whole of the constitution, but I do believe he cares about the Constitution as a whole. Like I don't care about my appendix but I like holding on to it because it's part of my original equipment. I do think his use of Executive Action to UNCONSTITUTIONALLY ban bump-fire stocks was due to his general ignorance of firearms (and gun laws), and definitely should be seen as a red flag.

But as for the ATF, I think he realizes there are certain (probably many) government functions he lacks the expertise to screw around with (and have any prospect of making an improvement). I doubt very seriously he knows the difference between the 1935 NFA and the 1968 GCA and the 1986 Hughes Amendment, but they're all interrelated and relevant. If/when he turns to it, I suspect he will enlist the aid of someone who is a subject matter expert.

Not to mention his #1 campaign promise was to Drain The Swamp, and he's making steady progress in that regard but that progress comes at a cost, especially with the insurrection going on the demoncrat ranks. His political capital is limited and finite. What he's doing is a lot like playing a chess match in that he's got to take care not to expend his pawns so quickly in pursuit of his lesser objectives that it endangers his goal of capturing the demoncrat's king.

And if he had diddled with the ATF even a tiny bit, and if after that there came even the tiniest up-tick in crime statistics -- any statistic whatsoever, relevant or not, and regardless whether it was precipitated by his diddling -- the demoncrats most assuredly would have harangued him with that and it could have jeopardized his chances for a second term.

He's also made frequent mention of IRS reform in the past, and that's another one he hasn't embarked on yet, and the impact of that would be even more beneficial than jerking a knot in the ATF's ass. But I expect the pace of quicken after his second inauguration and hope to see action on both the IRS and the ATF in his second term.

And with ACB on SCOTUS, I have no doubt they will re-visit Roe-v-Wade before 2025. It's legal arguments are so ridiculously weak that I can't imagine a conservative court not at least knocking it back a peg or two if not altogether overturning it.

I think we need a harsher justice system man....

I think there's less of a problem with the system being too lax than with liberal judges turning law enforcement into "catch and release." We don't have a "revolving door" prison system because of weak sentencing, we have it because of judges who use the power of their robes to alter the sentencing guidelines, often countermanding the sentence by the judge who heard the case in the first place.

[Test Monsterone]

I need a car with 760hp.



The main reason for these gun laws isn't to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. It's solely about making a population with absolutely no defense for any crimes the government wants to commit against those people. 2A is not about defending yourself from some thugs that break in to your house (it's a nice side-effect). It's about defending against a tyrant government.

It’s ironic to me that you guys that are all for the 2a (I’m for it too, it’s not my hobby/passion), claim you want it to protect against a tyrannical government, but then support a president who is slowly turning this country into a tyrannical government. I mean he’s doing the same thing Putin is doing in Russia. Trump repeatedly said he may not accept the results of the election and may not step down from office. Anyhow, I don’t see how you can rationalize that.

[Cuz]

A LITTLE GUN HISTORY

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

56 million defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control:

You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!

The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

With guns, we are "citizens". Without them, we are "subjects".
During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!

If you value your freedom, please spread this antigun-control message to all of your friends.

SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.

SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
IT'S A NO BRAINER!

DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.

Spread the word everywhere you can that you are a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment!

It's time to speak loud before they try to silence and disarm us.
You're not imagining it, history shows that governments always manipulate tragedies to attempt to disarm the people.

Some interesting material

[Honkey_Kong]

It’s ironic to me that you guys that are all for the 2a (I’m for it too, it’s not my hobby/passion), claim you want it to protect against a tyrannical government, but then support a president who is slowly turning this country into a tyrannical government. I mean he’s doing the same thing Putin is doing in Russia. Trump repeatedly said he may not accept the results of the election and may not step down from office. Anyhow, I don’t see how you can rationalize that.

I think you got something about me very wrong. I'm not a fan of Donnie or Joe. In fact I despise them, all of the major parties, the entire media (mainstream and "not so mainstream"), the education system, the big corporations and the cabal that rules over them all.

I also understand almost all people base entirely what they know on things they hear from the media, what they've been indoctrinated with in school and crap their churches and families drilled in to them. Even if elections were legitimate, the people voting in them are incapable of making sound decisions.

A candidate doesn't get put on a ballot, unless they're hand-picked by the real people that control America. Likewise propositions don't get put on ballots without similar approval.

So no, I don't support any of it. The fear of armed insurrection is the only thing pushing back at all and that's being eroded day by day.

[Test Monsterone]

I think you got something about me very wrong. I'm not a fan of Donnie or Joe. In fact I despise them, all of the major parties, the entire media (mainstream and "not so mainstream"), the education system, the big corporations and the cabal that rules over them all.

I also understand almost all people base entirely what they know on things they hear from the media, what they've been indoctrinated with in school and crap their churches and families drilled in to them. Even if elections were legitimate, the people voting in them are incapable of making sound decisions.

A candidate doesn't get put on a ballot, unless they're hand-picked by the real people that control America. Likewise propositions don't get put on ballots without similar approval.

So no, I don't support any of it. The fear of armed insurrection is the only thing pushing back at all and that's being eroded day by day.

Sorry to assume, it's just something that I've noticed by now, that gun guys tend to steer right more than left. I support people's right to protect themselves, and guns are part of the deal. Personally, I don't watch much news at all anymore, but I will read articles and watch things where I can form my own opinion. Most of my opinions on Trump have been from hearing the words coming out of his own mouth, and I think he's a bigger problem to our country than any liberal/conservative out there.

It's just interesting for me to analyze how people's minds work; for example, the huge Evangelical support Trump gets, meanwhile he's banging a Slovenian "model" a few decades younger than him that he cheated on with a pornstar... and who knows how many other wh*res. Then we are supposed to believe that the party of family values cares about those values when Trump clearly doesn't. And to bring it all back together, a lot (most) gun guys support him, yet he literally is treating the country like a dictatorship, abusing his power, getting rid of competent professionals in all offices, only to replace them with incompetent "yes men" or cronies.

A democracy falls slowly, but it starts with the type of stuff Trump is doing. It sets a precedence for the following leaders to follow. If we are ok with this type of stuff, what will the next election bring... and the next? America is falling in stance around the world, in all free nations, while Trump is buddy-buddies with the world's dictators and speaks highly of them. The draft dodger called our military service men and women "losers" and "suckers," yet he claims to be doing great for our military (but what has he actually done?). Our military was already spending more than the next 10 strongest powers combined, how much more military do we really need? He dishonored McCain, a military veteran, because he was a war prisoner.

Then the wall is a joke. He built a few hundred yards and gave up because they realized it was never going to happen. It's not feasible. The health insurance he promised is nowhere to be found. His tax records he promised to reveal (like every other political person who takes office in order to reveal any potential conflicts of interest) after the election still hasn't been revealed. He gave the top 1% tax cuts that ended up putting us in an even greater deficit. The book he supposedly wrote "The Art of the Deal" is not even written by him. The guy who wrote the book for him even thinks Donald is a narcissist and is unfit to lead our country. He has an unheard of, record-breaking 85% turnover in his white house "A-team." Mostly all of them have talked of his incompetence in the White House and his abuse of power. He's had numerous bankruptcies and it is believed, from various sources, that he is over $400 million in debt, which makes you wonder who lent him the money since no American bank or investment firm would trust him after his multiple bankruptcies?

Yet, what makes people like him? His nod and wink to white supremacist groups? His wild conspiratorial claims and peddling of actual, real fake news (unlike the real news he wants us to think is fake). His pandering to people he actually despises? Does anyone actually think Trump really cares about the middle class or about the average family? He gives two fucks. He says whatever will make people cheer him, but he has no principles, morals, servitude to the people, or integrity. We all see how quickly he turns on his "allies." He's quick to throw anyone under the bus to save his own ass. He took Putin's word over our own intelligence's findings that the Kremlin put bounties on American heads. What he is doing is slowly dismantling trust in the media, intelligence agencies, and even now scientists and professionals. He knows more than all of them, just listen to him. That's pure, 100% dictatorial behavior. I grew up in a country with one, I know what I'm looking at. To top it all off, he blatantly said he's not sure if he'll abdicate office if (once he) loses the election. I mean...

So, while he may be pandering to the gun folks and spreading lies (as pubs have done for years, but wonder why it never happened) about Biden or whatever opponent not allowing you to have your guns, he's only doing it as long as it serves him. He fortunately will never have the time of day, but he'd be the first to remove that right as it sees him fit... because he doesn't actually care about the constitution (as he repeatedly side-stepped and flat out stepped on), he only cares about himself.

I guess this response should have been in Beetlejuices thread, but I'm sure it would have been swamped by his many bullshit non-stories and propaganda. Whatever though, everyone will have their opinion on guns, presidents, whatever. I guess I'm a little passionate about what I deem to be probably the most important election of our lives... and to see people support a guy like that, I just don't get it. Gun policy or no gun policy.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I am reluctant to comment because I don't want to detract from what Test Monsterone wrote...
I believe he made many good points that anti-Trumpers feel.

I know that many people vote Republican for various reasons.

The Christians tend to vote Repblican because of their stance on abortion.
They believe that live is sacred.
Well if you believe that life is sacred... how can you vote for Trump?
He has cost tens if not a hundred plus thousands of lives. He lied to the public about Covid and is still lying today.
Hell... he blatanly lied last night in his town hall meeting.
"Trump falsely claims that 85% of people who wear masks get coronavirus"
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/us-election-town-halls-10-15-20/h_805f8612cf382dcc456d2d91bae7cbff
He will sacrifice peoples lives just so he can stay in power.
So if life is sacred how can Trump be the right choice?

The pro-gun folk vote tend to vote Republican because of the 2nd amendment.
Many of them believe that we need guns to protect ourselves from our government abusing its powers.
Well... Trump used the military, the DHS, Federal Prison Guards, and who knows what else against protestors.
His own military advisers were against it.

Esper says he disagrees with Trump’s wish to use troops as crowd gathers on Capitol Hill to protest George Floyd’s killing
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/03/george-floyd-protests-trump-troops-esper

Trump got so mad that Esper disagreed with him that he nearly fired Esper.
(Because Trump obviously knows how the military should be used better than a general. He did dodge the draft and all.)

Trump was talked out of firing Defense Secretary Esper over disagreement on protest response

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/09/trump-was-talked-out-of-firing-defense-secretary-esper-over-george-floyd-protests.html

He ex-Secretary of Defense even called him a threat to the constitution.

James Mattis Denounces President Trump, Describes Him as a Threat to the Constitution

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/james-mattis-denounces-trump-protests-militarization/612640/

So if you are a Patriot who fights against tyranny how can Trump be the right choice?

Some people vote Reuplican because they think that Republicans are fiscally responsible.
Meanwhile Trump's deficits in his first three years (which are before Covid) are larger than Obama's in his last three years.
And Obama's GDP growth in his last three years was quicker than Trump's in his first three years.

So if you care about America's economy how can Trump be the right choice?

So we know he caused the deaths of many, many Americans...
We know he used troops against his own people...
We know he isn't fiscal responsible...

I could easily go on about his lies.
I could go on how he turned his back on our allies and befriended dictators.
I could go on how he is smarter than all the scientists.
I could go on about him backing conspiracy theories.
I could go on about him ignoring the FBI and CIA.
I could go on about him retweeting "White Power" posts and calling white supremascists very fine people.

But I just can't understand how people can't see the man for just what a danger he is to our society.
Vote Republican for the Senate and House if you want.
But Trump is no Republican.

[Cuz]

I really dont see how someone could be blamed for all the covid deaths i mean , what about the deaths in all the countries...its a fucking virus lol it kills people that are susceptible to dying from it ...but its the President’s fault..ermm cant agree with that one lol thats pure liberal propaganda

[Cuz]

Anyway , back to topic. Do you guys have any sources on 5.56 rounds? Cheapest ive found is 1.65 a round and thats nuts

[Honkey_Kong]

Sorry to assume, it's just something that I've noticed by now, that gun guys tend to steer right more than left. I support people's right to protect themselves, and guns are part of the deal. Personally, I don't watch much news at all anymore, but I will read articles and watch things where I can form my own opinion. Most of my opinions on Trump have been from hearing the words coming out of his own mouth, and I think he's a bigger problem to our country than any liberal/conservative out there.

I cut off a lot of your post to save screen space..

But yeah Donnie is a total and complete liar. The guy can't even stop himself from cheating on his hooker wife (that he met at Jeffrey's). Not only that. Look at his moral business practices of using politicians he bribed to eminent domain property of people that didn't want to sell just so he could build a lot of his projects.

He's been in-bed with the mafia his entire career in the private sector. He even gets $4 billion in debt to Rothschild banks ($1 billion personally) and they bail him out. If you look at how the very people he put in his cabinet were the bankers that brokered that bailout, he hardly got bailed out for free. And yeah he's currently hundreds of millions in debt. He's probably one of the most owned people ever to be in government (and that's saying a lot).

Now as far as those "white supremacist" groups go. If you look at those Proud Cucks. They're a lot of things, but not "white supremacists." Half of them are gay and a lot of them go on paid vacations to Israel (which they boast about). That's not something you'd expect from a bunch of "white supremacists." They are controlled opposition and the videos of their "confrontations" look staged.

[jstone]

Funny you ask...the .22lr went first!

I think everyone had the same idea. Stinks because my oldest son just got his first .22 in March and we can hardly shoot it because ammo is so sparse.

let me know if you want a brick, it at least get you out a few times. i have enough 22 to last me a long time at the rate i have been shooting.

[almostgone]

Anyway , back to topic. Do you guys have any sources on 5.56 rounds? Cheapest ive found is 1.65 a round and thats nuts

There's a few places. Think Freedom has 55 gr. for around .80?

https://www.freedommunitions.com/amm...r-fmj-new.html

[Honkey_Kong]

Anyway , back to topic. Do you guys have any sources on 5.56 rounds? Cheapest ive found is 1.65 a round and thats nuts

In the communist schittehole that I live in, all ammo sales require a background check and the sales have to be done in person. And pretty much every store is sold out locally.

[Cuz]

There's a few places. Think Freedom has 55 gr. for around .80?

https://www.freedommunitions.com/amm...r-fmj-new.html

Hey man thanks for that link. Really and truly.

[almostgone]

Hey man thanks for that link. Really and truly.

No problem, Cuz. Hope it helps.

With the current ammo shortage, we all may need each others help to scrounge up some rounds.