Guns and Ammo Thread

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I am no expert so I am simply asking for knowledge...

Let's say Biden tried to ban a certain type of gun...
Or do this buyback...
Or whatever...

Does it go thru congress?
Or....
How does it become law?

[Cuz]

I am no expert so I am simply asking for knowledge...

Let's say Biden tried to ban a certain type of gun...
Or do this buyback...
Or whatever...

Does it go thru congress?
Or....
How does it become law?

Biden is a 40 plus year politician. He isnt gonna do half the stuff he is promising. He may ban large magazines and stop online firearm sales but it wont go any farther. He is just trying to please his liberal fanbase , imho. And I believe executive orders he can bypass congress. But he doesn’t want to open that can of worms nor does his hopeful vp

[Honkey_Kong]

I am no expert so I am simply asking for knowledge...

Let's say Biden tried to ban a certain type of gun...
Or do this buyback...
Or whatever...

Does it go thru congress?
Or....
How does it become law?

Sometimes, it can go through Congress, but usually, "gun laws" are "passed" by the president directing the ATF and that agency creates new "regulations." And technically, they're not "laws" as they're not passed by Congress, but since not being in compliance can get you fined and see jail time, they basically are.

An easy example is when governors issue mandates requiring people to wear face diapers. The state legislation never passed laws requiring that, but nonetheless if you don't comply, you're subject to jail and fines.

[SampsonandDelilah]

The last two federal gun control measure came during the Clinton administration and went through the House. The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban. States have their opportunities to get legislation on the books which is usually run through the Governor’s office and occur when Congress is deadlocked on a gun control measure.
Generally, they’re either “Red flag” laws or laws that prevent certain weapons or high capacity magazines and background checks in addition to what the Brady Bill determined.

[almostgone]

Don't know if I mentioned it or not, but I snagged a synthetic stock stainless Ruger 10/22 within the last 2 weeks. For years I had been planning on buying a bull barrel 10/22, but never did it.
Anyway, I saw the Ruger carbine and grabbed it. As usual, I overscoped and spent more on glass than the rifle ( very easy to do).

I bought a Leupold VX-Freedom AR Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 3-9x 40mm 1/10 Mil Adjustments Illuminated FireDot Tri-Mil Reticle Matte on Midway since it was on sale. (Yes, I copy and pasted the scope description).Weaseled a base out of the store because when I bought the rifle there was one screw missing for the factory wimpy bolt on rail for tipoff mounts. They told me to go grab an aftermarket base off the shelf if I saw anything that would work. So I snatched the last Leupold base off the rack. Rings should be here by Friday. Ought to be more than perfect for rabbit or tree rats if things get tight. If nothing else I'll grab another scope for the.22 later if this new scope would be better served on one of the AR-15s.

[almostgone]

By the way, have any of you tried out the ATN day/night scopes? Y'all would not believe the amount of feral hogs we have coming through now. At times it's like individual "herds" coming through.

[BurntRbr]

I've been away from forums for so long! First stop has go to be here, and always guns and ammo talk because pew pew!

[SampsonandDelilah]

Don't know if I mentioned it or not, but I snagged a synthetic stock stainless Ruger 10/22 within the last 2 weeks. For years I had been planning on buying a bull barrel 10/22, but never did it.
Anyway, I saw the Ruger carbine and grabbed it. As usual, I overscoped and spent more on glass than the rifle ( very easy to do).

I bought a Leupold VX-Freedom AR Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 3-9x 40mm 1/10 Mil Adjustments Illuminated FireDot Tri-Mil Reticle Matte on Midway since it was on sale. (Yes, I copy and pasted the scope description).Weaseled a base out of the store because when I bought the rifle there was one screw missing for the factory wimpy bolt on rail for tipoff mounts. They told me to go grab an aftermarket base off the shelf if I saw anything that would work. So I snatched the last Leupold base off the rack. Rings should be here by Friday. Ought to be more than perfect for rabbit or tree rats if things get tight. If nothing else I'll grab another scope for the.22 later if this new scope would be better served on one of the AR-15s.

The VX freedom is an awesome scope and a perfect match for the 10/22...can’t go wrong. “Bulletproof” purchase. Heyyyy oooooo

There’s more add ons for the Ruger than even the AR markets.

I’ve owned my 10/22 forever and it’s never let me down. With that Leupold on it, you’ll be good to go for whatever comes your way. I’m a big fan of overdoing the optics, lol. Now it’s time to start loaded up on .22 by the brick!


Side note. Has anyone heard of a EAA Girsan MC28 SA T 9mm Pistol. It’s a “budget friendly” striker fired pistol that’s being imported from Turkey and is a total ripoff of the M&P. My local shop just picked some up and with the price tag and the looks, I can stop obsessing about them. They have a FDE one that comes with a red dot and a threaded barrel for just under 400$. Another handgun is the last thing I need, but this thing kept me up last night reading reviews. I hate the term “budget friendly”, ESPECIALLY when it comes to firearms, but they have contracts with the Turkish military and police and may just be flying under the radar. Hmmmmm.

Feels like one I could leave in the pickup and not be sick if something happened to it. Can’t say that about the rest of my collection. If anyone is looking for a new pistol, they’re worth looking into.


Beetle, I’m waiting for your seal of approval

I digress, lol. Nice work on the 10/22 AG!

[Cuz]

By the way, have any of you tried out the ATN day/night scopes? Y'all would not believe the amount of feral hogs we have coming through now. At times it's like individual "herds" coming through.

Would like to but a thermal scope wont be in Cuz’ budget for quite a while. Dropping my overtime for a few months to get back serious in the gym.

Those ATN’ s look nice tho. Would love to have one day

[almostgone]

The VX freedom is an awesome scope and a perfect match for the 10/22...can’t go wrong. “Bulletproof” purchase. Heyyyy oooooo

There’s more add ons for the Ruger than even the AR markets.

I’ve owned my 10/22 forever and it’s never let me down. With that Leupold on it, you’ll be good to go for whatever comes your way. I’m a big fan of overdoing the optics, lol. Now it’s time to start loaded up on .22 by the brick!


Side note. Has anyone heard of a EAA Girsan MC28 SA T 9mm Pistol. It’s a “budget friendly” striker fired pistol that’s being imported from Turkey and is a total ripoff of the M&P. My local shop just picked some up and with the price tag and the looks, I can stop obsessing about them. They have a FDE one that comes with a red dot and a threaded barrel for just under 400$. Another handgun is the last thing I need, but this thing kept me up last night reading reviews. I hate the term “budget friendly”, ESPECIALLY when it comes to firearms, but they have contracts with the Turkish military and police and may just be flying under the radar. Hmmmmm.

Feels like one I could leave in the pickup and not be sick if something happened to it. Can’t say that about the rest of my collection. If anyone is looking for a new pistol, they’re worth looking into.


Beetle, I’m waiting for your seal of approval

I digress, lol. Nice work on the 10/22 AG!

Thanks, it was a spur of the moment purchase. One of LGS here just got in some of the same pistols; I got an ad in the mail from them yesterday. I haven't looked at them yet, but the price is very reasonable if they are reliable.

I'm semi stocked on .22 LR ammo from the last time things went tits up, but when it rolls around again I'll be snagging more.

The only thing I don't understand is why Ruger didn't put sling mounts on the thing. Since the buttstock feels semi-hollow, I'll probably end up with a Giles sling or something.

[Beetlegeuse]

Excellent chronicling of the history of gun control laws in the US (at Ammo dot com, who almost always do very good work).

Federal Gun Control in America: A Historic Guide to Major Federal Gun Control Laws and Acts

If you have occasion to engage in gun control debates, you could do worse than to archive a copy of this article for your own use. The article has been being archived on the WayBack Machine since 2017, showing a history of periodic updates.

[Beetlegeuse]

National Ammo Crisis! Where is the Ammo & When Will Prices be ‘Normal’ Again

Lots of statistical and historic analysis, too intricate to re-post here. They don't predict when it will end because (as almostgone has noted) primers are the bottleneck and the primer makers aren't tipping their hands about when the dam will break. They do predict prices could increase by another 25%.

[Beetlegeuse]

[Beetlegeuse]

Of course it will, and by design. Just like the Absurdly Expensive Health Care Act was designed to bankrupt the private health care industry, leaving no alternative to gummint-run single-payer. The Dims intend this to be the third term of Sheikh Obama (piss be upon him) so they're looking to push what there was remaining of his Alinsky-Marxist bucket list that he didn't get enacted.

‘It’s A Disaster’: Joe Biden’s Gun Plan Could Bankrupt The Firearms Industry, Advocates Say

* President-elect Joe Biden’s gun control plan includes a provision to repeal the Protection of Lawful Commerce In Arms Act, which protects firearm sellers and manufacturers from lawsuits related to the misuse of weapons or ammunition.

* Two Second Amendment advocates said the plan could cripple the gun industry and drive companies and small sellers alike into bankruptcy.

* Remington Arms Company, which recently went bankrupt, and Cabelas were recent targets of gun-related lawsuits, and the firearms advocates insist the Georgia Senate races will determine if Biden’s policies are enacted into law.

... Jamison called the theories behind the gun litigation “absurd” and said the lawsuits have been allowed to continue even under the Commerce In Arms Act because of misguided courts.

“They’ve gotten away with it because the courts have indulged these absurd theories of law,” the gun lawyer said. “It’s a disaster. It has been very bad the last few years, yes, but it’s going to be the death of mom and pop and gun shops — individually-owned gun shops — and some of these companies.”

Pratt sees the potential for America’s gun industry as a whole to crumble under the weight of litigation that could result from Biden’s plan.

“The idea of the left would be ‘oh sure you can have a Second Amendment right, too bad you just can’t find any guns that are being produced and manufactured,'” he said....

[almostgone]

Always enjoyed reading commentary and critique by Col. Cooper and Maj Plaster!

[Beetlegeuse]

Coloradans, looks like you elected "a keeper."

Newly elected Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-CO) has already asked Capitol Police about her ability to have a gun on Capitol grounds for defense of herself and her fellow lawmakers....

[SampsonandDelilah]

Coloradans, looks like you elected "a keeper."

Newly elected Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-CO) has already asked Capitol Police about her ability to have a gun on Capitol grounds for defense of herself and her fellow lawmakers....

It’s the only elected official we’ve done right lately! She is the real deal, smart and pretty too

[almostgone]

Coloradans, looks like you elected "a keeper."

Newly elected Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-CO) has already asked Capitol Police about her ability to have a gun on Capitol grounds for defense of herself and her fellow lawmakers....

It’s the only elected official we’ve done right lately! She is the real deal, smart and pretty too

When I saw her with a drop-leg holster and pistol ( maybe a Glock?), I had to do a little reading on her. Also caught a few short Q&A sessions on the Andrew Wilkow show on XM125.

Seems to be a pretty direct and to the point type of personality. I like it!!

Think there were several females that flipped seats to the GOP on this election.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Definitely a Glock in this one

[Cuz]

Definitely a Glock in this one

She is smoking hott. Holy chit

[Beetlegeuse]

SAAMI standardized an 80,000 psi cartridge Sig created for a competition to build a new squad automatic weapon for the US military, the .277 Fury. And I can't say I've ever heard of another cartridge over 65,000 psi, so this is the highest pressure round I've ever heard of, by a substantial margin.

This traces back to the shift in mentality that in future wars everything will have to be able to defeat body armor, so they wanted a bullet with considerably more mass than 5.56 but about the same velocity. This round is so hot that the case head had to be made from steel and joined to the brass body with a lock ring.


.277 Fury next to .308 Win

Case head is dimensionally identical to the .308, and so is the cartridge body diameter and length, so this essentially is an 80,000 psi 7mm-08.

It's supposed to get 3000 fps with a 135-gr bullet and a 16" bbl! But according to my barrel life calculator (with a couple of SWAGS because I don't have all the relevant stats), a barrel shooting this round is highly unlikely to last 1000 rounds (but more than that if it's melonited).

I bears mention that the M-1 Garand was designed around the .276 Pedersen round because that caliber was considered closer to the ideal size for a battle rifle (bullet mass vs velocity vs recoil vs cartridge weight) but they went with .30-06 because there still was shit-tons of it left from WWI. So maybe this is a step away from the poodle-shooter and back toward a cartridge better (best?) suited to a universal infantryman's rifle.

Also worth mention that the Bosch invented cold hammer-forged barrels specifically because of the outrageous cyclic rate (1200 rpm, 20 rds/sec!!) of their new general purpose machine gun, the MG-42. But if anyone has a trick up their sleeve to prevent this being the barrel-burner it was born to be -- especially in a friggin' machine gun -- I've not got wind of it.

[Honkey_Kong]

And so the ATF is already at it:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ghost-g...ts-11607670296

[Fluidic Kimbo]

I took this photo at my hotel a few days ago.

I'm on holiday in the Canary Islands, and my hotel has a shooting game 2 or 3 times a week. It's a Norica Titan spring-powered riffle and it shoots .177 lead pellets. It can also be gotten in a .22 lead pellet version.

My understanding is that I need a firearms license in the UK even for this spring-powered rifle because the projectile leaves the gun with more than 16 joules of kinetic energy ( = mass × velocity x velocity).

For anything above 16 joules, I would need to get a firearms certificate, and so I might try get one -- but I can't imagine they hand them out to just anyone.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

My understanding is that I need a firearms license in the UK even for this spring-powered rifle because the projectile leaves the gun with more than 16 joules of kinetic energy ( = mass × velocity x velocity).

For a lead pellet weighing 0.77 grams (11.9 grains), the limit of 16 joules works out as a max velocity of 668 ft/s. Anything faster than that and I need a firearms certificate.

With a firearms certificate in the UK, you can get a proper rifle that shoots gun-powder bullets, but you can't own a handgun. Very few people can legally own and carry a hangun over here, and it's only for people who are at higher risk of being attacked (e.g. politican, celebrity, witness in a serious court case).

[almostgone]

^^^ Man, y'all are very limited on pellet rifles. A pellet rifle or .22 LR is about mandatory where I live just to keep the squirrels thinned out. They literally stripped our garden last year and the apples the deer didn't get, the squirrels ruined by nibbling on them.

It's mainly fox squirrels. Flying squirrels are mainly just a nuisance at dusk. They like to swoop past you if you get close to their nests.

[Fluidic Kimbo]

A pellet rifle or .22 LR is about mandatory where I live just to keep the squirrels thinned out.

My boss at work has a UK firearms certificate and shoots .22 LR (i.e. real gun-powder bullets).

I'll start off with a spring-powered pellet gun shooting .22 lead pellets and see how I get on. Maybe after a year or so I'll see about getting a UK firearms certificate to fire proper guns.

Actually there are 'pistol clubs' here in N. Ireland, and so in theory if I joined one I'd be able to own a pistol, but I'd only ever be able to have it in 3 places:
(1) At home
(2) At pistol club
(3) In my vehicle directly between 1 and 2

At the very beginning I might have to just keep it at the pistol club and never take it home.

Must say it would be pretty cool to legally own a desert eagle. For the time being I just have a CO2 airsoft desert eagle -- and although the blowback is very realistic and cool, it uses way too much gas. I'd like to design an airsoft desert eagle that is very realistic except it doesn't blow back.

[Beetlegeuse]

This past summer I got a burr under my saddle about the lying hoplophobes who claim that the crafters of the Second Amendment couldn't have conceived of anything as advanced as a rapid-fire rifle so 2A shouldn't apply to them. So I posted about firearm developments before the outbreak of the American Revolution (some dating back to the early second millenia AD) and that the Founding Fathers would have been aware of that make it abundantly clear that all the way back to the earliest weapons involving a gunpowder-propelled projectile, man has lusted after a rapidly-firing gun of a sort that in the modern parlance is called a "machine gun."

Also in that post I mentioned that the earliest rudimentary repeating firearm I was aware of was the Danish-make Kalthoff repeater (of ca. 1630). Today I accidentally stumbled on one I'd never heard of before, made roughly half a century before the Kalthoff, and that comes closer to delivering on the "machine gun's" rate of fire than anything that would come along for the next 250 years.



This is a German-made 67-caliber rifle from 1580-90 with two wheellocks (designer unknown). The reason for two wheellocks was that 16 balls and charges could be loaded, superposed, like in a roman candle (or the 18th Century Belton flintlock, or the 21st Century Metal Storm family of weapons).

It fired lead balls that had what effectively was a "touch hole" running through them lengthwise. The hole was stuffed with gunpowder and the forward-mounted wheel lock would spark to light the powder on the muzzle side of the uppermost ball. The fire would travel down the powder-filled hole in the ball and light the charge behind it, which both fired that uppermost ball and "lit the fuse" on the ball just behind it, establishing a chain reaction.

Details are sketchy but the forward wheel lock is supposed to be used to fire the first 10 balls (or nine, accounts vary), and the rear wheel lock fired the remaining six (or seven). So they all go off in succession, one after the other, just as fast as the powder can burn the length of the hole. I find no detail offering what interrupts the firing so the latter rounds can be fired separately but it could have been as simple as loading a ball without a powder-filled hole. In which case you potentially could fire all 16 in one pull of the trigger.

And in case you're wondering, the powder-filled orifice in the balls remains in-line with the bore (where the fire can be passed one ball to the next most effectively) because both the bore and the balls are ovalized. So the balls would only fit in the bore in one orientation.

Nothing I have yet found addresses whether the oval bore is straight or spiraling, which would impart spin on the ball in lieu of rifling, but Charles Lancaster is credited with inventing the spiralling oval "Lancaster" bore in about 1850, so I'm guessing it's straight.

So this in essence is a 15th-Century machine gun with a rather small magazine capacity (which should make Nutty Pelosilly deliriously happy). Admittedly not a very practical weapon but it shows the incredible energy the earlier firearm inventors applied to the problem of creating a machine gun when both fixed (one-piece) ammunition and the percussion cap/primer had yet to be invented. Created a full two centuries before the US Constitution.

As I keep saying, anyone who states that the Founding Fathers could not have envisioned anything along the lines of the modern high-volume-of-fire military rifle either is a liar or is ignorant of history. Or both.


Some big cheese at the NRA holding an example of the rifle (very large, shows entire rifle in good detail if you embiggen)

It looks like he's holding some crazy variant of a saxophone.

And a very informative video:

[Beetlegeuse]

If you've not heard, the ATF raided Polymer80, which is the largest purveyor of D-I-Y 80% lowers (mostly for ARs and Glocks). They were selling "build kits" that included the usual polymer completion stuff plus a slide, barrel and all internals. The kits contain nothing the ATF isn't fine with them selling separately, yet the warrant cited suspicions of illegally manufacturing and distributing firearms, failing to pay taxes (there's an 11% FET on completed firearms), shipping firearms across state lines and failing to conduct background investigations.

Polymer80 also refused (at least initially) to provide the ATF with the names and addresses of clients who had bought the kits but just today there is news that ATF has tracked some of them down and gone to their homes to seize the kits.

[Beetlegeuse]

And in today's good news, Glock is selling a limited number of Gen1 G-17s, called the P80. Apparently everything is as in the original Gen1 except the original's 'pencil' barrel.

And for some ungodly reason, they think the P80 is worth $100 more than a Gen4/5 G-17.

[almostgone]

Man, that German rifle is a work of art and engineering. Would love to see some working drawings and prints of it. Exceptional craftsmanship. If it worked half as good as it looks, it was a game changer.

I am kind of curious about controlling the rate of fire.

Nice find!!!

[Beetlegeuse]

almostgone, it strikes me as quite odd that no one who's writing about this thing (that I can find) seems to have any interest in matters such as rate of fire or interrupting the "chain reaction" once firing is initiated, or even how in the hell a 16th-Century machinist managed to fashion a steel gun barrel with an oval bore!!! Because beyond any political (2A/RKBA) significance, this could well be the very first of its type ever made, the 'αlpha' of all repeating firearms.

I fail to understand the lack of 'academic' curiosity.

[Beetlegeuse]

Polymer80 did not rat out their customer base. The ATF subpoenaed records from Stamps.com (which sells stamps/postage labels) and Authorize.net (which serves as man-in-the-middle authorization for credit card purchases) to get the details of everyone who had bought a "Buy, Build, Shoot" kit over about an 18 month period. This article states they also ran the customer list against the NICS to test for prohibited persons but fails to follow up as to whether the ATF only went after end-users who were prohibited, or even if they made a special point of targeting them.

[Beetlegeuse]

If ATF Comes A Knocking, Only Surrender Your 80% Frame or Receiver Under Protest!

The most important tidbit from the linked article (if this should happen to you):

...Inform them that the only ATF form you are willing to sign is an ATF 3400.23 – Receipt of Property and Other Items...

... because what they probably will offer (as opposed to an ATF 3400.23) is an ATF 3400.1 Form, Consent to Forfeiture or Destruction of Property and Waiver of Notice.



Obviously, you should never sign an ATF 3400.23, Ever. Period.

[Beetlegeuse]

Follow the hyperlink in the headline for the complete story.

6 First Gun Control Measures To Expect From A Biden Administration

... I think the first things a Biden administration will do regarding guns if given the chance are:

* Banning pistol braces
* Banning homemade firearms/80 percent receivers
* Banning online firearm and ammunition sales

Shortly after the first bans, and if he has the help of the Senate, the next gun control measures will likely be:

* Banning “assault weapons”
* Banning “high capacity” magazines
* Requiring universal background checks

Let’s examine each of these in turn....

[Beetlegeuse]

The President of Federal Ammunition is sick and tired of The Internet mis-information about Ammo…

[Beetlegeuse]

This is an old video (at least 30 years and maybe 40) but I only came across it today. There are a couple of goofs but there's probably quite a few bits in here you didn't knew (as there was for me), particularly about the scope of the guns designed by John Moses Browning (all face Ogden and genuflect).

[Beetlegeuse]

Gun grab sparks 'Defund ATF' movement

They are the strongest opponents of defunding the police, but now, conservatives are carving out an exception ⁠— the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives.

Long considered anti-gun, the agency has provoked alarm with Second Amendment advocates due to the agency’s recent targeting of gunmakers, including a raid this month on a producer of so-called "ghost guns" and this week’s targeting of AR-15-style pistols.

With President-elect Joe Biden poised to unleash new gun control measures, fears are heightened that ATF will be the tip of the spear.

To fight that, some conservatives are now calling for the defunding of the ATF. Outspoken gun advocate Rep.-elect Marjorie Taylor Greene has put the agency in her crosshairs.

“The ATF is trying to shut down American companies and put good people out of work. Not only is this an attack on small businesses, but the Constitution itself,” she told us, adding, “I’m headed to D.C. to cut government, not expand it, and the ATF is at the top of my list.”

Gun Owners of America Senior Vice President Erich Pratt said that the agency’s move this week to consider outlawing some AR pistols after endorsing them for years demands scrutiny.

“This ATF is simply out of control,” Pratt said. “This agency — which shouldn’t exist in the first place — is not held accountable for its actions, and honest gun owners who are being turned into criminals are paying the price.”

The National Rifle Association is also raising concerns that the agency is eager to team up with the Biden-Harris team to squeeze gun owners more.

[Honkey_Kong]

Gun grab sparks 'Defund ATF' movement

They are the strongest opponents of defunding the police, but now, conservatives are carving out an exception ⁠— the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives.

Long considered anti-gun, the agency has provoked alarm with Second Amendment advocates due to the agency’s recent targeting of gunmakers, including a raid this month on a producer of so-called "ghost guns" and this week’s targeting of AR-15-style pistols.

With President-elect Joe Biden poised to unleash new gun control measures, fears are heightened that ATF will be the tip of the spear.

To fight that, some conservatives are now calling for the defunding of the ATF. Outspoken gun advocate Rep.-elect Marjorie Taylor Greene has put the agency in her crosshairs.

“The ATF is trying to shut down American companies and put good people out of work. Not only is this an attack on small businesses, but the Constitution itself,” she told us, adding, “I’m headed to D.C. to cut government, not expand it, and the ATF is at the top of my list.”

Gun Owners of America Senior Vice President Erich Pratt said that the agency’s move this week to consider outlawing some AR pistols after endorsing them for years demands scrutiny.

“This ATF is simply out of control,” Pratt said. “This agency — which shouldn’t exist in the first place — is not held accountable for its actions, and honest gun owners who are being turned into criminals are paying the price.”

The National Rifle Association is also raising concerns that the agency is eager to team up with the Biden-Harris team to squeeze gun owners more.

Unfortunately, that "defund the ATF" movement won't get much traction. Those thugs demanding to "defund the police" were only successful, because they steal, vandalize and will commit arson. Most pro-2Aers have morals and don't do stuff like that.

And quite frankly, the whole government is anti-Bill-of-Rights. They don't really care what sort of demonstrations we do as they know we're not going to torch their cities and rob the local Walmarts. They know they will eventually regulate us out of our gun "rights" (along with all the other "rights)."

So we really long-term have two options a full-fledge armed insurrection or compliance. People all the time (especially online) will say crap like "from my cold dead hands," but nearly all of them are not willing to actually carry that out. People are basically cowards and the ones that aren't have families to provide for and/or they fear going to prison or getting killed. The government has no problem killing any of us.

[Beetlegeuse]

Not two minutes ago I got an email from SG Ammo that they have seven cans of Prvi Partizan M193 5.56 in stock for $730 for 1000-rd can.

73 cents a round is still high but it beats a dollar.

[almostgone]

You beat me to it!