Don't Give Up Your Liberty !!

[Proximal]

Just because they are of Latino descent doesn’t mean that they are illegal.
I am definitely against illegals but i see a a lot of generalizations of the Latinos thinking all of them are illegal.


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You out of the hospital yet?

[Proximal]

Just because they are of Latino descent doesn’t mean that they are illegal.
I am definitely against illegals but i see a a lot of generalizations of the Latinos thinking all of them are illegal.


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OK. But I think it’s fair to assume that they are all in gangs

[C27H40O3]

Since I’ve been out here I have grown to respect and admire the Mexican labor force that does work here for slave-wages. Damn, I see people seek employment relentlessly (unlike others, voice clear) and then work their ass off. I go out of my way to tip large to show my appreciation of their efforts and in the case of our weekly landscapers, pay them more than what they ask. I see these guys hustle at work. I used to begrudge the people that pick through our trash for bottles and cans till I realized the lengths they are going to support themselves and their families.

I can only speak for my personal experiences out here, but it is this ridiculously cheap labor and inexpensive products made in other countries that allows a lot of us in these parts to live a life truly above our means.

For the record, I don’t seek out the cheapest labor, but with a lot of the jobs out here, you just don’t see anyone else doing it.

I agree with everything you said.

I have said here before that the outsourcing for the past few decades, and the importation of cheap quality foreign consumer products, has enabled the business community to justify not giving the workforce proper wage increases. They see folks are affording all the consumer items they need, so they believe that they can forgo proper wage increases, and instead put those extra profits in their profits.

Look at an old Sears tool catalog. Look at how much a circular saw or drill cost in the late 1960's. A circular saw in 1967 could cost $40. Following inflation over the years, that saw should cost over $300 today. Without foreign goods, our wages would have had to keep up so a guy in the same social level doesnt have to earn enough to spend $300 on a circular saw today. Because of imports, his wages were kept artificially low. The problem is when that guy goes to buy a house, which has to actually be made here, or land (which cant be imported from china), he doesnt have the same buying power today, relative to his position in society, as he would have had without outsourced imports flooding the market and depressing wages.

[charger69]

JC, you guys with your insinuation of me or others not knowing things. How many more times can you guys pat yourselves on your own backs because you have your own business and are of the belief that you are working harder than others? Get over yourself ffs, seriously.

It’s the Covid curse. LOL
People have way too much time on their hands. LOL
As far as Covid- I have my beliefs but no one is right except that this has fucked us up royally.
How should we handle this???? There is no good answer.
Nobodies right if every bodies wrong- CSNY
Remember: we don’t see things as they are, we see things as we are.

NOTE: I have a lot of respect for those that ventured out and started their own business. I was too chicken shit to. Unfortunately, now they are seeing the downfalls of that decision and I hope and pray that they make it back.


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[Proximal]

I agree with everything you said.

I have said here before that the outsourcing for the past few decades, and the importation of cheap quality foreign consumer products, has enabled the business community to justify not giving the workforce proper wage increases. They see folks are affording all the consumer items they need, so they believe that they can forgo proper wage increases, and instead put those extra profits in their profits.

Look at an old Sears tool catalog. Look at how much a circular saw or drill cost in the late 1960's. A circular saw in 1967 could cost $40. Following inflation over the years, that saw should cost over $300 today. Without foreign goods, our wages would have had to keep up so a guy in the same social level doesnt have to earn enough to spend $300 on a circular saw today. Because of imports, his wages were kept artificially low. The problem is when that guy goes to buy a house, which has to actually be made here, or land (which cant be imported from china), he doesnt have the same buying power today, relative to his position in society, as he would have had without outsourced imports flooding the market and depressing wages.

There was a lot of anti-California talk here and I get it. The opulence I see out here next to poverty is down-right perverted.

The cost of living here though not the highest in the country is ridiculous. I do a lot of career advisement in my class; a lot of talk about life with my kids to give them a heads up on what to expect if they live out here.

In education, I’m a rarity with my background (financial success) and know I’m fortunate. LMAO, I’m one of the few teachers that drives a better car than the students here. The teachers at our school generally can’t afford to buy a home in that same community. But then again, 1/2 of our community is lower middle class and a good percentage of our students can’t speak any English a perfect little microcosm of how I feel things are out here overall.

[Proximal]

It’s the Covid curse. LOL
People have way too much time on their hands. LOL
As far as Covid- I have my beliefs but no one is right except that this has fucked us up royally.
How should we handle this???? There is no good answer.
Nobodies right if every bodies wrong- CSNY
Remember: we don’t see things as they are, we see things as we are.

NOTE: I have a lot of respect for those that ventured out and started their own business. I was too chicken shit to. Unfortunately, now they are seeing the downfalls of that decision and I hope and pray that they make it back.


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I’m with you Charger, but disagree with the chicken-shit part. Self-employment simply isn’t for everyone. I strongly disagree with the idea that if you own a business you are Uber-brave and your personal drive and ideals are elevated beyond folks that work 9-5. I don’t believe one’s job has to completely define you as a person. It’s a part of you, how big a part you want it to be is up to you. If you are supporting yourself an/or loved ones, hats off to you.

[Test Monsterone]

Are NASA astronomers and rocket scientists, or doctors and nurses working in hospitals, or engineers at Tesla lesser than because they didn’t start their own construction or lawn care company? Lol

People have to integrate and work together to get BIG things done. I can own my own lawn care company and say I’m brave, but if I want to work in the education, computer, or science field, I have to integrate with others. That’s how the world moves forward. Pizza shops and gyms make their owners successful and hire people, but that’s not the definition of success or of bravery.

[charger69]

I’m with you Charger, but disagree with the chicken-shit part. Self-employment simply isn’t for everyone. I strongly disagree with the idea that if you own a business you are Uber-brave and your personal drive and ideals are elevated beyond folks that work 9-5. I don’t believe one’s job has to completely define you as a person. It’s a part of you, how big a part you want it to be is up to you. If you are supporting yourself an/or loved ones, hats off to you.

Actually, I would probably have been worse than Obs when I was younger. Work was my life. When I was 12 I was getting up at 4 am to go to the neighbors farm and milk cows. I would get out around 7 pm and then start unloading hay at 8:3.0. pm at another farm. Work until around 12-12:30am. Start the day again.

I also worked as an engineer for 2 months going in at 4am and leaving at 10 pm as a plant manager in Mexico. I worked every Saturday from 6 am to 4 pm and Sunday 6 am to 3 pm. I actually had two different hats I was wearing.
I could only handle that pace for about two months and I was able to go to just one hat.
My point is - I had the work ethic, but I know I am never satisfied and want to be better in any way possible probably run my health into the ground. . I was chicken shit because I was afraid of failing, especially financially. These guys overcame that fear.
I guess bodybuilding has changed my attitude toward myself. People told me I was too old. Wife even tried to berate me so I didn’t do it. It just made me want to prove everyone wrong. I can do anything I want if I put my mind too it. A lot of people on here have helped me with my low self esteem.
In the bodybuilding world you need to be somewhat narcissistic. The same with people that go out to start a business. It’s them against the world at the beginning at least.
I think you will understand, not necessarily agree, where they are coming from.
These guys did something I didn’t have the balls to do, although I share many of the same elements as them.


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[C27H40O3]

Here is an example of the purchasing power of our depressed wages in relation to costs of consumer items not raising with inflation.











If it wasnt for the cheap shit being made in China, they would have to pay workers enough disposable income to pay $300 for a circular saw.

In other words, if we had the same standard of living as we had in 1966 had continued up to today, we would easilly have enough cash in our pocket to think nothing of buying a $300 saw. It would not seem overpriced to us today.

Companies have record profits today (the last few years). Productivity per worker is way up from decades ago. Where did that extra money accrue to, workers bank accounts? or owners' pockets?

[Proximal]

Actually, I would probably have been worse than Obs when I was younger. Work was my life. When I was 12 I was getting up at 4 am to go to the neighbors farm and milk cows. I would get out around 7 pm and then start unloading hay at 8:3.0. pm at another farm. Work until around 12-12:30am. Start the day again.

I also worked as an engineer for 2 months going in at 4am and leaving at 10 pm as a plant manager in Mexico. I worked every Saturday from 6 am to 4 pm and Sunday 6 am to 3 pm. I actually had two different hats I was wearing.
I could only handle that pace for about two months and I was able to go to just one hat.
My point is - I had the work ethic, but I know I am never satisfied and want to be better in any way possible probably run my health into the ground. . I was chicken shit because I was afraid of failing, especially financially. These guys overcame that fear.
I guess bodybuilding has changed my attitude toward myself. People told me I was too old. Wife even tried to berate me so I didn’t do it. It just made me want to prove everyone wrong. I can do anything I want if I put my mind too it. A lot of people on here have helped me with my low self esteem.
In the bodybuilding world you need to be somewhat narcissistic. The same with people that go out to start a business. It’s them against the world at the beginning at least.
I think you will understand, not necessarily agree, where they are coming from.
These guys did something I didn’t have the balls to do, although I share many of the same elements as them.


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Charger I still disagree a bit. I’ve posted elsewhere my physical labor. There seems to be a bit of a contest here as to who has had the toughest upbringing. As a teen, I’ll out ditch dig any of you in heat and humidity, in my early 20’s I was the top unloader at UPS, my pace was unmatched. When they needed a trailer done fast, out of a crew of 50 studs, they got me for that semi.

Being a narcissist is fine, but many simply don’t work for others because they can’t accept other’s rules. I guess it’s like this debate about rules & liberties in this society. You don’t want to work in someone’s setting, don’t, but that doesn’t make it some heroic undertaking.

The risk for failure is almost the same as it is for success. That’s part of the game. If a person wants to roll the dice with their livelihoods , good for them, still not heroic by my estimation.

Most times, working in a cooperative setting has its own tolls as well. But again, that’s what you’ve chosen.

I love road and deeply respect him, but I’ve been working since I’m 16 and am now going on 62. I never took sick days when I was younger, I take a few with teaching to maintain my sanity.

I saw the American dream & how to get there and ground out at it for 40 years. And as expected, I succeeded. It wasn’t easy, but it was ridiculously straight forward to do in this country.

I’m only starting to pat my own back now because it is mission accomplished. And if I would have failed (no, I actually don’t fail, because I have refused failure since I was a teen) I would have pointed the finger at me and blamed only myself.

[C27H40O3]

Notice how our standard of living was in a constant ascent from 1960 to 1973. Then it leveled out, while the price of everything else went up, we could no longer buy more every year with our wages. Our standard of living stagnated.





Corporate profits are way up since 1960, and their corporate tax levels are way down. The workers didnt see any of that benefit.

[Proximal]

Then along comes cheap/slave labor and made in China and other over seas sweat shops.

[C27H40O3]

And our economic system rewards that egregious, rapacious activity by producing higher stock prices on wall street, higher CEO compensation, and higher bonuses, all while jobs are disappearing. It is a perverse system, a race to the bottom which is unsustainable in the long run.

It wont be politics or fights over political perspectives that will lead to a devastating revolution in this country. It will be the unsustainable income gap that makes all the wealth and income in this country accumulate in the hands of those at the very top, while the middle class disappears, and its former members are all thrust into the lower poverty level class.

The country was headed in that direction in the 1920's and 30's, until Roosevelt finally made the rich understand that if they didnt willingly loosen up their lopsided control of the economy and share some of the wealth with the working class, the working class would take it by force. They had to give up some, or lose it all. The riches of the wealthy back then was not international. If the US government collapsed, so did their wealth. They were convinced to stop their long efforts to crush unions and workers' rights movements. They finally allowed workers to get a bigger piece of the pie. Catastrophe was avoided. Then the war came along, and everybody went back to work. The 1950's started a period of tremendous creation and expansion of the middle class, enabled by the growth of unions.

All was good until the early 1970's. Thats when our standard of living stopped experiencing an annual increase, after increasing nicely for the prior twenty years. It leveled off and hasnt gone up in a tangible way since. It used to be that the average family in this country had the man of the family being able to work one job, and by doing so earn enough to own a home, and support his family and live comfortably without going into debt. Now, the man has to work overtime, his wife has to work, they rent an apartment, and their credit cards are almost maxed out. That family went from being comfortably in the middle class, to being in the upper end of the lower class. Yet, corporate profits are higher than ever.

Where did the money go? The money that represents the difference of what that family could buy then, and what they can buy now. It went to the greedy owners of the corporations who are always crying for lower taxes and more corporate welfare.

We used to hear folks talk about "welfare queens", starting in the term of Reagan. The real welfare queens of today are corporate CEO's. Corporate taxes are at their lowest levels ever, yet the firms keep demanding more tax breaks and public subsidies and bailouts, just to line the pockets of their owners and stockholders.

The system is not sustainable. The more this system, striving for pure capitalism, churns out poor folks, the sooner it will be brought down by those at the bottom.

[charger69]

Charger I still disagree a bit. I’ve posted elsewhere my physical labor. There seems to be a bit of a contest here as to who has had the toughest upbringing. As a teen, I’ll out ditch dig any of you in heat and humidity, in my early 20’s I was the top unloader at UPS, my pace was unmatched. When they needed a trailer done fast, out of a crew of 50 studs, they got me for that semi.

Being a narcissist is fine, but many simply don’t work for others because they can’t accept other’s rules. I guess it’s like this debate about rules & liberties in this society. You don’t want to work in someone’s setting, don’t, but that doesn’t make it some heroic undertaking.

The risk for failure is almost the same as it is for success. That’s part of the game. If a person wants to roll the dice with their livelihoods , good for them, still not heroic by my estimation.

Most times, working in a cooperative setting has its own tolls as well. But again, that’s what you’ve chosen.

I love road and deeply respect him, but I’ve been working since I’m 16 and am now going on 62. I never took sick days when I was younger, I take a few with teaching to maintain my sanity.

I saw the American dream & how to get there and ground out at it for 40 years. And as expected, I succeeded. It wasn’t easy, but it was ridiculously straight forward to do in this country.

I’m only starting to pat my own back now because it is mission accomplished. And if I would have failed (no, I actually don’t fail, because I have refused failure since I was a teen) I would have pointed the finger at me and blamed only myself.

I was not trying to be macho, I guess it came off that way. I was just trying to show the struggles. I never really reached what I call successful until a year and a half ago. I left a company after 29 years making peanuts and found a job 3 levels down from where I was making 20% more. So I am new to success. I was always successful at my old company but I could never get ahead of the bills.

I will agree to disagree. LOL

Oh by the way.. I will challenge you on the heat... I lived in the desert. Triple digits from May until October and doesn’t cool down at night. Going to hit 111 next Monday. Actually almost died from dehydration. The hottest I’ve seen is 124. I used to have a Jeep with a bikini top. I could tell when it reached 115 because the heat from the air would burn your cheeks.
Anyway- I digressed.


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[Proximal]

Just getting edgy, sorry; hurting, miss saying goodbye to my kids.

Damn, I loved the heat & pain as a teen - we’re on. There’s something about smelling your skin getting cooking & the sweat. If you have felt and embraced that, then you know.

Work just forges a person, it’s as simple as that.

[C27H40O3]

They spent billions of dollars convincing people that liberals want to take your guns, that democrats are socialists, and now they have to roll with it. A lie never hurt a republican. As long as they can continue holding their comfy offices, guys like Mitch McConnell, will continue the crooked scheme. Mitch McConnell, senator for Kentucky, the shittiest red state in existence. The lowest educational scores, the lowest income per capita, the worst healthcare. He's the tough guy in congress. Can't even fix his own state.


You know why red states have more tests available? Because they have less people per square foot, therefore, less chance of contamination, and less hospital visits.

The blue states are America. The red states do jack shit for this economy. What's the GDP in NY/California vs a red state?? Pff.

.

This guy sums up McConnell pretty honestly.

[Test Monsterone]

Lmao that was good - I always said Mitch looks like a turtle, guess I’m not the only one who sees it.

[XnavyHMCS]

Fucking RIGHT-ON, gentlemen (and I use the term gentlemen loosely here)!!!

This thread puts out

Amazing the eloquent writers we have here. Who would figure that you could find such style, grace and poetic prose on a steroid forum. I didn't know what I was missing by wasting countless hours on porn...

Some of you guys are bringing up some very salient points.

Great job. Keep it coming.

[GearHeaded]

"your anger is a gift ... use your gifts with intelligence"