I tried to buy a Firearm and the sale was placed “on hold”

[GearHeaded]

im worried about a crackhead breaking into my house. or a junkie. ANy crackhead or junkie who found a bullet proof vest would sell it and smoke it up or shoot it in his arm long before he gets to my house. .

perhaps your just tired and old and out of the loop on how deep these type of people can role and the crimes they can commit

[Capebuffalo]

[GearHeaded]

Im talking about 10 feet.
A 300 RUM will not stop a man like a 12 guage with bird shot at 10 feet.

Have ypu ever seen a close range head shot with bird shot?
I been trying to find one.
There is no face left.

yes ,, first hand nearly.
a friend of a friend who was a car mechanic working on my old high boy f250 Ford Truck shot himself with a shot gun and bird shot in a suicide attempt and he didn't die . he just disfigured himself.

some criminal comes into my home , I don't want to just disfigure him ... I want to rip his spine out .

mortal kombat !!!

[The road]

At ten feet that would be a 5 inch hole into his back.
Didnt any of you ever shoot a dead cow etc at 10 feet with bird shot as a kid?

A guy aint gonna keep coming.

[The road]

yes ,, first hand nearly.
a friend of a friend who was a car mechanic working on my old high boy f250 Ford Truck shot himself with a shot gun and bird shot in a suicide attempt and he didn't die . he just disfigured himself.

some criminal comes into my home , I don't want to just disfigure him ... I want to rip his spine out .

mortal kombat !!!

I bet he got right up and shot himself again ey?

[GearHeaded]

looks like a bad night of kinky shit.. probably what happens when you play around with birdshot

[The road]

Ah fuck! I forgot!

Dave Jungerman....

Caught two crack heads stealing copper in his factory.
Took ones leg off with a 12 guage bird shot.

The man sued him and was awarded millions.

So dave shot the lawyer.

Hes in prison now still awaiting trial.

[The road]

looks like a bad night of kinky shit.. probably what happens when you play around with birdshot

Ok now your just being annoying go fuck yourself.

[C27H40O3]

perhaps your just tired and old and out of the loop on how deep these type of people can role and the crimes they can commit

Again, as with most of my posts, i am talking about my experience around where i spent my life. your mileage may vary.

Most home invasions here are burglaries by junkies, gone bad because someone is home. The only home invasions are of asian (nail spot owner) or spanish (restaurant owner) or jewish (jewelry store owner) business owners, and they are usually an inside job by some acquaintance of a disgruntled worker who knows about bringing cash home. This is not small town america, with alot of cash businesses. most folks here work in the city, and dont get paid with cash or bring amounts of cash home. Their money is in the bank. Any big time home invasion planned will hit the big fish, not small time city workers. those are handled by the junkies and crackheads. those bottom feeders surely dont have the discipline to keep a vest or even a gun. they sell it for several days of heroin or crack.

The ones where they do tend to wear vests are the home invasion of drug dealers' homes. They usually impersonate cops, so they wear vests. They are the exception by far.

Like many other issues on this board, regional variances are likely to be observed. If your burglars who catch you sleeping are all wearing vests, good for you. Be prepared.

Thats just not reality here.

EDIT: I hope Prox blocked me so he doesnt get hurt over my mentioning one nationality, one religion, and one culture in my post.

[GearHeaded]

I bet he got right up and shot himself again ey?

no , I don't know .. his wife took over the mechanic shop after that happened.

but who the fuck tries to kill themselves with bird shot ? how many marines go into battle with crappy shotguns filled with bird shot fighting someone who is mad and has AKs

just my opinion ,, but cheap shotguns and cheap bird shot for self defense is a "ploy" and false front to weaken people from real caliber defense systems


Walmart (china supporters) want you all to buy their shotguns and bird shot

[The road]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/records...omicide-scene/

Pickert: "There were five shell casings and three hits."
Jungerman: That's pretty good from the hip isn't, it? [laughter] That's lucky shooting, isn't it?"

He later shot pickert with a 17 hmr

[C27H40O3]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/records...omicide-scene/

Pickert: "There were five shell casings and three hits."
Jungerman: That's pretty good from the hip isn't, it? [laughter] That's lucky shooting, isn't it?"

He later shot pickert with a 17 hmr

damn lawyers.

[The road]

I worked for david when I was 18.
He was a bad guy. Truly evil.

[C27H40O3]

That is the same reason the 223 at point-blank range has little to no effect in terms of shock Force. They passed through and displaced very little energy. More powder and more speed is not the answer in home defense. Big and slow that doesn't pass through will displace 100% of a shock force on the target

This makes it simple, completely on point, like a "Principles of Home Defense weapon choice for dummies" book. It could be one page long.

[C27H40O3]

Wear a vest and let me smash you in the chest with a baseball bat. That would be on the way to approximating the force felt.

Or tape some M-80's around your arm at the elbow joint. Or around your neck, and light them all at once.

[The road]

This makes it simple, completely on point, like a "Principles of Home Defense weapon choice for dummies" book. It could be one page long.

I forgot some live in mansions.

Gh has got a .338 lapua zeroed in at 200 yards trained on his fron door from his bed. 32x 50mm scope

[GearHeaded]

This makes it simple, completely on point, like a "Principles of Home Defense weapon choice for dummies" book. It could be one page long.

if that was so on point .. why don't our military carry smooth bore shotguns with bird shot in them? instead they carry AR15 and AR10 and even the militarized police are dropping shotgun for AR15s etc..
yet general civilian homeowners that shop at Walmart are being told to buy a shot gun and bird shot to defend your home ..

you all deceived

[GearHeaded]

I forgot some live in mansions.

Gh has got a .338 lapua zeroed in at 200 yards trained on his fron door from his bed. 32x 50mm scope

I prefer 338 in 250 grain hornady boat tail bullets ... fly way way faster then guys that over load and go too heavy .. I like to have a 300 yard zero on my scope . makes life more simple

[C27H40O3]

if that was so on point .. why don't our military carry smooth bore shotguns with bird shot in them? instead they carry AR15 and AR10 and even the militarized police are dropping shotgun for AR15s etc..
yet general civilian homeowners that shop at Walmart are being told to buy a shot gun and bird shot to defend your home ..

you all deceived

The military likes to reach out and touch somebody from as far as possible. My house aint as big as an afghan field

[Cuz]

Lol picked it up yesterday

The slide action is a bit rough for me and will jam occasionally. I think it just needs some breaking in time im not to worried not like i paid a grand for it anyway

[C27H40O3]

Lol picked it up yesterday

The slide action is a bit rough for me and will jam occasionally. I think it just needs some breaking in time im not to worried not like i paid a grand for it anyway

You got the nice barrel length


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GearHeaded]

The military likes to reach out and touch somebody from as far as possible. My house aint as big as an afghan field

your joking right ?

most battles are taking place in close quarters combat .. not afghan fields. dude wake up.


you see any shotguns filled with bird shot here ? or do you see rifles


I'll post another video up of an ER trauma doctor talking about this subject. he treated tons of gun wound patients over his career and he talks about survival rates he saw personally .. chance of survival from a pistol caliber is pretty good and so is a shotgun wound with bird shot . but getting hit with a rifle round your pretty screwed. this is his first hand account in the ER


bird shot looks good on video when hitting pop cans and water jugs,, and a 308 rifle round may not. but the 308 is far more effective when it comes to thugs breaking into your home. and if your worried about "over penetration" you simply use a lighter bullet in hollow point like a hornady 155 critical defense round.

rifles are definitely used in close quarter, not across giant afghan fields and 500 yards away.. thats why swat team all carry rifles now , not shotguns with bird shot.
FYI - my brother in law is swat .. he don't train with no shotgun with bird shot (unless we are out pheasant hunting)

[GearHeaded]

just to clarify I'm not bashing shotgun use at all .. as you can see I have my bad boys right here but they are not loaded with no bird shot (buck and slugs), and you'll notice they are kept right next to the AR10 in 308 and the AK



shotgun is super effective with the proper training and proper loading and ammo choice as well as the choke selection.

a random Walmart shotgun with some 2.5 no.8 bird shot is not the best choice imo.. ain't no soldier, swat, or terrorist, etc.. carrying that into a life protecting battle. . not sure why so many citizens have been dooped into thinking thats what they should get when their life depends on it

[Proximal]

your joking right ?

most battles are taking place in close quarters combat .. not afghan fields. dude wake up.


you see any shotguns filled with bird shot here ? or do you see rifles


I'll post another video up of an ER trauma doctor talking about this subject. he treated tons of gun wound patients over his career and he talks about survival rates he saw personally .. chance of survival from a pistol caliber is pretty good and so is a shotgun wound with bird shot . but getting hit with a rifle round your pretty screwed. this is his first hand account in the ER


bird shot looks good on video when hitting pop cans and water jugs,, and a 308 rifle round may not. but the 308 is far more effective when it comes to thugs breaking into your home. and if your worried about "over penetration" you simply use a lighter bullet in hollow point like a hornady 155 critical defense round.

rifles are definitely used in close quarter, not across giant afghan fields and 500 yards away.. thats why swat team all carry rifles now , not shotguns with bird shot.
FYI - my brother in law is swat .. he don't train with no shotgun with bird shot (unless we are out pheasant hunting)

Loved this one that Beetle posted by an ER Doctor. Really dug it.

I’m still on the fence if I want one for the home.

https://youtu.be/hAtzl0e1OT4

[Cuz]

just to clarify I'm not bashing shotgun use at all .. as you can see I have my bad boys right here but they are not loaded with no bird shot (buck and slugs), and you'll notice they are kept right next to the AR10 in 308 and the AK



shotgun is super effective with the proper training and proper loading and ammo choice as well as the choke selection.

a random Walmart shotgun with some 2.5 no.8 bird shot is not the best choice imo.. ain't no soldier, swat, or terrorist, etc.. carrying that into a life protecting battle. . not sure why so many citizens have been dooped into thinking thats what they should get when their life depends on it

I have my AR right across from the 12 guage. Got buck shot loaded in it for now

[GearHeaded]

Loved this one that Beetle posted by an ER Doctor. Really dug it.

I’m still on the fence if I want one for the home.

https://youtu.be/hAtzl0e1OT4

go to the 17 minute mark .. the idea that bullets will travel through multiple houses and walls is a total exaggeration. the 45 round (one of the most stout hand gun rounds) didn't even make it through the guys sternum and hit the heart .. two rounds in the chest and he is alive and well ... yet people think bullets will travel through walls and houses and end up hitting and killing random people. so they are instructed to use a shot gun with bird shot to help prevent "over penetration" .. you been dooped .

watch the 14 min mark . dude gets hit with a 9mm twice in the chest and stomach and just walks around . the movies are total bullshit showing scenes where people get shot and fly back 10 feet and are instantly dead. thats not real . the energy from weak rounds of some crazy criminal is not going to throw him back at all,, even though you shot him 5 times he still may stab you 10 times before he finally bleeds out. bird shot is for birds.
rifle rounds like the 308 , or a shotgun with slugs or stout buck is what really stops a thug from killing you.

[Proximal]

Yeah I hear you. I believe Beetle’s point was if you’re going to intend to shoot, there is the need for multiple bullets being fired with the complete intent to kill an intruder.

You try to keep things interesting in class. A few times I’ve done labs where I’d find a good article on a surviving gun shot victim and an article that goes into detail on where the victim is shot. Then we bust out the Anatomy atlases and some cool anatomy apps & try to determine the trajectory of the bullet, which body structures are going to be damaged and why the person survived. I think I had a cool video going over the Tupac shooting.

I’m still going to err on the side of caution regarding the topic of possible bullet penetration of multiple walls. If I had kids, I’d think differently. But, once shit calms down, I think I’m still doing some gun shopping & try different guns at our range. Everyone (including yourself) gave me a ton of great information on that thread.

[GearHeaded]

Yeah I hear you. I believe Beetle’s point was if you’re going to intend to shoot, there is the need for multiple bullets being fired with the complete intent to kill an intruder.

You try to keep things interesting in class. A few times I’ve done labs where I’d find a good article on a surviving gun shot victim and an article that goes into detail on where the victim is shot. Then we bust out the Anatomy atlases and some cool anatomy apps & try to determine the trajectory of the bullet, which body structures are going to be damaged and why the person survived. I think I had a cool video going over the Tupac shooting.

I’m still going to err on the side of caution regarding the topic of possible bullet penetration of multiple walls. If I had kids, I’d think differently. But, once shit calms down, I think I’m still doing some gun shopping & try different guns at our range. Everyone (including yourself) gave me a ton of great information on that thread.

I think hunting comes into play .. people who never hunted and they have only got their gun thoughts from movies are a bit mis informed.
your not allowed to hunt an elk with a shotgun and filled with bird shot or a handgun. in my state you can't even use even an AR15 caliber 5.56 to hunt deer or elk, because its not powerful enough to make a clean kill and is thus against the law as un ethical . even with a proper hunting round you may get a good shot off and a good hit , but then you may have to track the Elk for miles before you finally find the carcass bled out.

stopping a fight from an intruder with a gun is not as easy as you see it portrayed in the movies

you need to have the proper gear, ammo, and lots and lots of training

when I bow hunted a lot. I used to practice archery 4 hours per day. I cut and fletched my own arrows, I had the grain weight and tips tuned in complete balance, I have a chronograph and would tune things based on FPS and energy. and thats why I could hit a beer can at 70 yards with a bow .. cause I wanted to be sure with precision that I could cleanly take down an animal when hunting.

its the same with gun ownership and self protection.. you got to take it very serious and train and prepare yourself. you have to select the right tools for the job and practice

[Cuz]

go to the 17 minute mark .. the idea that bullets will travel through multiple houses and walls is a total exaggeration. the 45 round (one of the most stout hand gun rounds) didn't even make it through the guys sternum and hit the heart .. two rounds in the chest and he is alive and well ... yet people think bullets will travel through walls and houses and end up hitting and killing random people. so they are instructed to use a shot gun with bird shot to help prevent "over penetration" .. you been dooped .

watch the 14 min mark . dude gets hit with a 9mm twice in the chest and stomach and just walks around . the movies are total bullshit showing scenes where people get shot and fly back 10 feet and are instantly dead. thats not real . the energy from weak rounds of some crazy criminal is not going to throw him back at all,, even though you shot him 5 times he still may stab you 10 times before he finally bleeds out. bird shot is for birds.
rifle rounds like the 308 , or a shotgun with slugs or stout buck is what really stops a thug from killing you.

A 9mm wont even penetrate a windshield of a car at 50 plus yards. The 40 has some ass behind it. A 45 is basically a huge slug with not enough powder imho, the critical defense rounds are much better today tho i know that. But a regular 45 round ehhh what it is 850-950 fps off the top of my head?

Now that 5.56 is probably going thru the house quite easily imo. The thing i like about the shotgun for home defense is the wide pattern. A a 3” OO buck is pretty nasty

[Capebuffalo]

I shot a reedbuck in Mozambique with a .375 H&H. I hand loaded 265gr Nosler Partitions moving at about 2600 FPS. They were hot loads.
410 yards I squeeze the trigger. It keeps walking like nothing. I ask the ph did I hit him. Yes he says. Keeps walking. Should I hit him again. No he says. He has binocs on him and sees the blood coming out of his chest. Keeps walking then falls over. They are the size of a lab. Amazing.

Namibia I shot a springbok. Even smaller animal with the same rifle same load at 80 yards. He takes off running in about a 1/4 mile circle then falls over dead.

There are reports of Cape buffalo taking 14-15-16 rounds from a .416 Rigby and they keep coming.

With a dangerous animal or a person you DO NOT STOP shooting until the threat is down. With the dangerous animal even if it’s down you put an insurance shot in him. Too many have jumped up and killed the hunter that thought it was dead. Always pay the insurance.

[GearHeaded]

I shot a reedbuck in Mozambique with a .375 H&H. I hand loaded 265gr Nosler Partitions moving at about 2600 FPS. They were hot loads.
410 yards I squeeze the trigger. It keeps walking like nothing. I ask the ph did I hit him. Yes he says. Keeps walking. Should I hit him again. No he says. He has binocs on him and sees the blood coming out of his chest. Keeps walking then falls over. They are the size of a lab. Amazing.

Namibia I shot a springbok. Even smaller animal with the same rifle same load at 80 yards. He takes off running in about a 1/4 mile circle then falls over dead.

There are reports of Cape buffalo taking 14-15-16 rounds from a .416 Rigby and they keep coming.

With a dangerous animal or a person you DO NOT STOP shooting until the threat is down. With the dangerous animal even if it’s down you put an insurance shot in him. Too many have jumped up and killed the hunter that thought it was dead. Always pay the insurance.

whats in bold ..

and for you non ammo guys following this thread . these are some serious high power rounds. the highest power stuff most guys wouldn't even want to shoot.

your talking 4,000+ foot pounds of energy and tons of velocity and penetration . yet still can't take down a beast on some occasion.

you think your little BB pellets in some bird shot smooth bore Walmart special shotgun is going to do the job.. don't think so.
your little 380 pistol James Bond special going to take someone down.. don't think so.

I'd strap up a bit more then that .. just saying, if you had to protect your family from an intruder, you want the best tool to end that intruder as quickly as possible

[Capebuffalo]

whats in bold ..

and for you non ammo guys following this thread . these are some serious high power rounds. the highest power stuff most guys wouldn't even want to shoot.

your talking 4,000+ foot pounds of energy and tons of velocity and penetration . yet still can't take down a beast on some occasion.

you think your little BB pellets in some bird shot smooth bore Walmart special shotgun is going to do the job.. don't think so.
your little 380 pistol James Bond special going to take someone down.. don't think so.

I'd strap up a bit more then that .. just saying, if you had to protect your family from an intruder, you want the best tool to end that intruder as quickly as possible

I agree. Caliber choice is my number 2. My number 1 is shot placement. You can have the biggest baddest hand cannon on the planet but if you can’t hit what you are shooting at you will loose the fight. Good shooting is a perishable thing. You have to practice. You have to shoot your gun on a regular basis. Most encounters will be at 7 yards or closer. Oh I can’t miss something that close. You can and will. Or not hit vitals. Practice drawing from concealment putting 3 shots down range in less than 2sec. What does your grouping look like? Will a quarter cover all 3 holes?

[GearHeaded]

I agree. Caliber choice is my number 2. My number 1 is shot placement. You can have the biggest baddest hand cannon on the planet but if you can’t hit what you are shooting at you will loose the fight. Good shooting is a perishable thing. You have to practice. You have to shoot your gun on a regular basis. Most encounters will be at 7 yards or closer. Oh I can’t miss something that close. You can and will. Or not hit vitals. Practice drawing from concealment putting 3 shots down range in less than 2sec. What does your grouping look like? Will a quarter cover all 3 holes?

agree 100% .. shot placement is #1



I prefer rifle .. but left or right handed I'm still able to put 15 rounds in one hole with a Glock 19 (yes thats 15 rounds fairly rapid fire at 15 feet).. because of practice and shot placement concentration . 95% of new gun shooters just think about the trigger . have no idea how to actually hit a target .


side note .. your post reminds me of this scene from pulp fiction

[Capebuffalo]

agree 100% .. shot placement is #1



I prefer rifle .. but left or right handed I'm still able to put 15 rounds in one hole with a Glock 19 (yes thats 15 rounds fairly rapid fire at 15 feet).. because of practice and shot placement concentration . 95% of new gun shooters just think about the trigger . have no idea how to actually hit a target .


side note .. your post reminds me of this scene from pulp fiction

Work your trigger reset. What’s a trigger reset? Stop slapping the trigger. What?

[Capebuffalo]

[GearHeaded]

I dry fire every pistol and test trigger reset before buying it .. if its got lag and to long of a reach I don't buy it. learning trigger reset and tap rack for failures is extremely important for how to properly use a pistol .

when I got my tactical pistol certification,, trigger reset shooting was required as well as the instructors loaded your gun for you and put in some blank rounds, during your live fire that would cause a failure and require a tap rack reset. you had to put all live rounds on target within a given time despite the blanks and the jams.. knowing how to work the trigger with trigger reset was a key factor in success

[Capebuffalo]

I dry fire every pistol and test trigger reset before buying it .. if its got lag and to long of a reach I don't buy it. learning trigger reset and tap rack for failures is extremely important for how to properly use a pistol .

when I got my tactical pistol certification,, trigger reset shooting was required as well as the instructors loaded your gun for you and put in some blank rounds, during your live fire that would cause a failure and require a tap rack reset. you had to put all live rounds on target within a given time despite the blanks and the jams.. knowing how to work the trigger with trigger reset was a key factor in success

That’s why I love Zev triggers. You can set everything you want in a trigger.

Tactical carbine same situation. But I wound up with a class 3 malfunction. Had to mortar the shell case out of the AR. Not fun. Not fun at all.

[Capebuffalo]

Mine was NOT that easy. Fuck me.

[Capebuffalo]

Geissele Super Dynamic-Combat Trigger is what I run in my AR. Love this trigger. You can get it in a 3 gun version that is fast as hell and unsafe if you don’t know what you are doing.

[jstone]

Geissele Super Dynamic-Combat Trigger is what I run in my AR. Love this trigger. You can get it in a 3 gun version that is fast as hell and unsafe if you don’t know what you are doing.

I have the sd3g in my monolithic rail platform. Its very easy to control, and the dangers are blown out of proportion. I even keep the 3.5 lb spring in it. When i purchased it they didnt have the single stage trigger, and it was the closet they had to a single stage. I have intentionally tried to make it double, and it wont unless actually bump fire it.