A theory I cooked up; Semi-Permanent Fat loss?

**kingofmasters** · 07-31-2004, 03:32 PM

I and many other people have noticed that after a DNP -cycle even after months less than 50% of the weightloss is gained back.
(And that is even with crappy training and diet)
While common rule in dieting is that the more weight one loses in a
short time span, the more likely he/she is to gain all that weight back plus even a bit more fat most of the times (the dreaded YOYO-effect!!).

Also this research confirms that 3 obese people (2 men and a women) after
long term T3 and DNP supplementation lost a lot of weight and managed
TO KEEP IT OFF!

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/4,673,691

As to so many cases of people not experiencing a drastic rebound with DNP
(anything that guarantees under 50% of the weightloss gained back is an effective diet-aid in my opinion) it got me thinking as to WHY...

So a simple theory which I came up with:

DNP is so dangerous, because it doesn't involve in a feedback system
(meaning if there is to much present in the blood there is no way the body can combat that).
Also it is non-hormonal
(hormonal systems always have a feedback-mechanism).

This means that it doesn't affect your body's "setpoint"
(which is what your body thinks is your "healthy" weight and thus always wants to return to that point).

Some mechanisms in the "setpoint" are still unknown but it mostly has to do with dopamine/adrenaline and the various Neuropeptides
(especially B, K and Y that all regulate appetite).

The "setpoint" is best adjusted if weightloss is as gradually as possible
(phentermine users always get the yo-yo effect meaning all the lost weight
+ some new fat comes back after discontinuance; not only because fat is lost so rapidly but mainly because it affects all those "setpoint" features and after discontinuance they will try to regain homeostasis!).

DNP has no (significant) role in manipulating the "setpoint"
(meaning your body will not feel the urge to gain some weight after discontinuance).
Also it competes with T3, meaning after you stop DNP, T3 will peak
(instead of like with most diets; will be on low)
couple that with the fact that it is not catabolic
(actually a bit anti-catabolic for that matter) so your BMR stays
rougly the same after the DNP-cycle.

And the conclusion confirms the reality -->
Fat loss induced by DNP is not likely to come back for a significant part!

Note:
Most people supplement certain compounds with DNP -->
I for instance take Sibutramine, T2, T3 and an ECY which are
most likely to be the MAIN cause of the "gained weight afterwards"
due to the KNOWN disturbance of some processes in the body's metabolism by these ancillaries.

Let me know if you all agree or see some scientific weaknesses in my story!
(also who wants to volunteer for a study

)

Greets
Kingofmasters

**Da Bull** · 07-31-2004, 03:54 PM

Interesting observation and theory.Nice post!

**1badcamaro** · 07-31-2004, 03:56 PM

very informative bro, thanx!

**kingofmasters** · 07-31-2004, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Da Bull

Interesting observation and theory.Nice post!

Thanks Friend!
DNP is non-hormonal; and not included in any feedback system so why would it adjust the "setpoint"?
Too bad it was "banned" due to inconsiderate irresponsible people, or there would be much more literature available on the subject!
(same goes for AS)

Greets
Kingofmasters

**Lozgod** · 07-31-2004, 04:00 PM

I feel more educated reading your posts. Glad you came to AR bro.

**LeanMeOut** · 07-31-2004, 04:01 PM

This is a very interesting concept......I have been pondering DNP usage for the end of a cutting cycle for the last few stubborn pounds....

Good read

<<LMO>>

**Da Bull** · 07-31-2004, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by LeanMeOut

...I have been pondering DNP usage for the end of a cutting cycle for the last few stubborn pounds....

Same here...but a low dose tho.

**LeanMeOut** · 07-31-2004, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by Da Bull

Same here...but a low dose tho.

Yea I have been thinking about doing a longer lower dose cycle..... like 200mg for 14 days or more..... and supplement t3 @ 50mcg after day 8. But I am not sure yet how I am going to do it, but it sounds safer this way.

<<LMO>>

**Da Bull** · 07-31-2004, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by LeanMeOut

Yea I have been thinking about doing a longer lower dose cycle..... like 200mg for 14 days or more..... and supplement t3 @ 50mcg after day 8. But I am not sure yet how I am going to do it, but it sounds safer this way.

<<LMO>>

That sounds very similar to what I have in mind.I was thinking 200 mgs for 10 days,plus a mild t3 run as well.

**LeanMeOut** · 07-31-2004, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Da Bull

That sounds very similar to what I have in mind.I was thinking 200 mgs for 10 days,plus a mild t3 run as well.

It just seems safer this way..... plus I am sure it is a lot less harsh on the side effects. I could deal with a couple extra days of sweating / pissing yellow and being a little lethargic over being completely bed ridden at a higher dosage and possibly dieing lol.

<<LMO>>

**Blown_SC** · 07-31-2004, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Da Bull

That sounds very similar to what I have in mind.I was thinking 200 mgs for 10 days,plus a mild t3 run as well.

Ok, how long would you run the t3 for?

**kingofmasters** · 07-31-2004, 04:30 PM

200 mg is a very comfortable dose!
even after 35 days you will only have 560 mg in your blood
(20-25 mg per lbs bodyweight is the fatal range!).

If I were you; I would use it with PCT
30 days @ 100-150 mg
(It lowers T3 levels thus reducing catabolism after cycle)
You would be very happy with the results if stacked with an ECY
(1 gram Vitamin C and 800 IU Vitamin E every day would be the only necessary ancillaries at such a dose).

Thanks for the compliment Loz!

Greets
Kingofmasters

**LeanMeOut** · 07-31-2004, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by Blown_SC

Ok, how long would you run the t3 for?

You just supplement the t3 while on DNP since DNP shuts down the bodies own production of t3.

<<LMO>>

**Da Bull** · 07-31-2004, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Blown_SC

Ok, how long would you run the t3 for?

Low dose for 8 days.

**LeanMeOut** · 07-31-2004, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by kingofmasters

200 mg is a very comfortable dose!
even after 35 days you will only have 1200 mg in your blood
(20-25 mg per lbs bodyweight is the fatal range!).

If I were you; I would use it with PCT
30 days @ 100-150 mg
(It lowers T3 levels thus reducing catabolism after cycle)
You would be very happy with the results if stacked with an ECY
(1 gram Vitamin C and 800 IU Vitamin E every day would be the only necessary ancillaries at such a dose).

Thanks for the compliment Loz!

Greets
Kingofmasters

Good idea..... but what about for those of us not on a cycle? Would that range still be ok, or would you rather see someone do 200mgs? And would it really be safe to run a low dosage like that for 30 days? 14 days seems like a lot of suffering lol, I can't imagine a whole month on the stuff.

<<LMO>>

**kingofmasters** · 07-31-2004, 04:34 PM

If you want do it alone this is the perfect beginner cycle!

20 days:

1x DNP 200 mg (with Quercetin-variant)
3x ECY (Ephedra, Cafeine, Yohimbine, S. Guggelsterones @ 25/200/5/40 mg)
3x Vitamin C 500 mg
3x Vitamin E 400 IU (180 mg)
3x 400 mcg T2
3x 15 mcg T3

Greets
Kingofmasters

**LeanMeOut** · 07-31-2004, 04:36 PM

Another question..... let's say I am on a liver toxic oral (anavar ) at the time I want to use DNP , would it be safe to run DNP while on the oral? I talked to bdtr and he told me DNP is not liver toxic, but I just want to make sure I am not going to hurt myself with DNP & Var at the same time.

<<LMO>>

**kingofmasters** · 07-31-2004, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by LeanMeOut

Good idea..... but what about for those of us not on a cycle? Would that range still be ok, or would you rather see someone do 200mgs? And would it really be safe to run a low dosage like that for 30 days? 14 days seems like a lot of suffering lol, I can't imagine a whole month on the stuff.

<<LMO>>

I assure you 200 mg is a dose to be laughed at
(20 days @ 200 mg isn't bad at all compared
to the suffering of 7 days @ 400 mg)

Greets
Kingofmasters

**LeanMeOut** · 07-31-2004, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by kingofmasters

If you want do it alone this is the perfect beginner cycle!

20 days:

1x DNP 200 mg (with Quercetin-variant)
3x ECY (Ephedra, Cafeine, Yohimbine, S. Guggelsterones @ 25/200/5/40 mg)
3x Vitamin C 500 mg
3x Vitamin E 400 IU (180 mg)
3x 400 mcg T2
3x 15 mcg T3

Greets
Kingofmasters

Looks good...... thanks for the help

<<LMO>>

**kingofmasters** · 07-31-2004, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by LeanMeOut

Another question..... let's say I am on a liver toxic oral (anavar ) at the time I want to use DNP , would it be safe to run DNP while on the oral? I talked to bdtr and he told me DNP is not liver toxic, but I just want to make sure I am not going to hurt myself with DNP & Var at the same time.

<<LMO>>

DNP is both Liver and kidneyfriendly,
has anti-catabolic properties,
boosts immune-system,
is anti-carcinogenic.

But still why would you choose mid-summer to try out DNP

?

**LeanMeOut** · 07-31-2004, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by kingofmasters

I assure you 200 mg is a dose to be laughed at
(20 days @ 200 mg isn't bad at all compared
to the suffering of 7 days @ 400 mg)

Greets
Kingofmasters

Now here's the big question...... will it yield the same results fat loss wise as the shorter higher dose cycle?

<<LMO>>

**LeanMeOut** · 07-31-2004, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by kingofmasters

DNP is both Liver and kidneyfriendly,
has anti-catabolic properties,
boosts immune-system,
is anti-carcinogenic.

But still why would you choose mid-summer to try out DNP

?

LOL..... good question. Honestly it would be stupid for me to try DNP now as I live in Las Vegas in the middle of the desert and it is 110-115 degrees outside everyday lol. But I am rarely outside. I am usually in doors in A/C all day

<<LMO>>

**LeanMeOut** · 07-31-2004, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by kingofmasters

DNP is both Liver and kidneyfriendly,
has anti-catabolic properties,
boosts immune-system,
is anti-carcinogenic.

But still why would you choose mid-summer to try out DNP

?

LOL..... good question. Honestly it would be stupid for me to try DNP now as I live in Las Vegas in the middle of the desert and it is 110-115 degrees outside everyday lol. But I am rarely outside. I am usually in doors in A/C all day

<<LMO>>

**kingofmasters** · 07-31-2004, 04:41 PM

make sure you buy the Synthetic Guggelsterones variant at 1fast400
(not the Herb-extract crap!)

T2 is best taken as much divided during the day as possible; 3 is a minimum
(it is only active for one hour! and preferabely with meals since it will burn all the fat/carbos you get in immediately!)
T2 unlike T3 is not catabolic even when abused
(T3 under good usage is quite anabolic !)

Greets
Kingofmasters

**kingofmasters** · 07-31-2004, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by LeanMeOut

Now here's the big question...... will it yield the same results fat loss wise as the shorter higher dose cycle?

<<LMO>>

Yes, not only that the T2 and Yohimbine need longer cycles to work their magic and thus it is even more effective
(also the fat loss will be more gradually from the ancillaries and thus easier to maintain that weight).

Also get the 3,5-T2 variant! (3,3 is less effective for our goals!)

Greets
Kingofmasters

**Da Bull** · 07-31-2004, 04:48 PM

How lathargic do you think a person would be using 200 mgs ED of DNP for 10 days?

**LeanMeOut** · 07-31-2004, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by Da Bull

How lathargic do you think a person would be using 200 mgs ED of DNP for 10 days?

Yea that's my only concern as well..... I want to be able to function normally while on DNP .....well atleast almost normal. I know your strength / endurance sucks while on, but to what extent is what I want to know. I have to be able to lift / go to work minimum. Activity outside of that is no big deal, I have no problem taking a month off from going out.

<<LMO>>

**kingofmasters** · 07-31-2004, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by Da Bull

How lathargic do you think a person would be using 200 mgs ED of DNP for 10 days?

Not at all (T2, T3 and Ephedra/cafeine combat that)!
I wasn't tired after 20 days!

**LeanMeOut** · 07-31-2004, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by kingofmasters

Not at all (T2, T3 and Ephedra/cafeine combat that)!
I wasn't tired after 20 days!

What kind of fat loss did you see after this cycle was over? And which diet theory did you use while on DNP ? I have heard a few different opinions on diet while using DNP but can't make up my mind. I heard Moderate Protein, High Carb, Low Fat works well, and I have also heard high protein, moderate carb, low fat. Then some people say the exact opposite.

<<LMO>>

**kingofmasters** · 07-31-2004, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by LeanMeOut

Yea that's my only concern as well..... I want to be able to function normally while on DNP .....well atleast almost normal. I know your strength / endurance sucks while on, but to what extent is what I want to know. I have to be able to lift / go to work minimum. Activity outside of that is no big deal, I have no problem taking a month off from going out.

<<LMO>>

Strenght goes down, 200 mg will not be too bad.
But make sure to also take 10 grams of Potassium Gluconate per day
(costs about 20 dollars per 3 lbs at 1fast400 I think!) to prevent musclepains.

**Da Bull** · 07-31-2004, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by kingofmasters

Not at all (T2, T3 and Ephedra/cafeine combat that)!
I wasn't tired after 20 days!

Ok,because I'll be running it with prop/fina/halo/masteron .That should keep my energy level up.I don't mind sweating(I live in south Florida).I just don't want to be dragging for 10 days or so.

**kingofmasters** · 07-31-2004, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by LeanMeOut

What kind of fat loss did you see after this cycle was over? And which diet theory did you use while on DNP ? I have heard a few different opinions on diet while using DNP but can't make up my mind. I heard Moderate Protein, High Carb, Low Fat works well, and I have also heard high protein, moderate carb, low fat. Then some people say the exact opposite.

<<LMO>>

A diet while on DNP is nonsense since due to its non-hormonal actions there is no benefit in shifting nutrients.

Just remember that carbs will get you heated
(so after carb intake you will start to feel warm for about 10 minutes, but without carbs you will find everything to taste disgusting!)

the 2 gram per lbs of bodyweight protein rule is also nonsense!
(you will find out that DNP is not catabolic).

I lost about 14 lbs of pure fat while gaining 4 lbs of LBM from that exact cycle! Diet was normal as always and plenty of water!

Also remember that while "on" you will feel fat and bloated and your muscles will be anything but pumped!
Fun thing is 5-7 days after discontinuance you will see the drastic change in the mirror and on the scale!

Greets
Kingofmasters

**kingofmasters** · 07-31-2004, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Da Bull

Ok,because I'll be running it with prop/fina/halo/masteron.That should keep my energy level up.I don't mind sweating(I live in south Florida).I just don't want to be dragging for 10 days or so.

I think you'd better save DNP for the last days of PCT...
If your PCT is 25 days and you want to do 10 days of DNP
then start day 10 (that way the waterweight will have gone to and your muscles will be pumped again by the end of the entire cycle + PCT).

Greets
Kingofmasters

**LeanMeOut** · 07-31-2004, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by kingofmasters

A diet while on DNP is nonsense since due to its non-hormonal actions there is no benefit in shifting nutrients.

Just remember that carbs will get you heated
(so after carb intake you will start to feel warm for about 10 minutes, but without carbs you will find everything to taste disgusting!)

the 2 gram per lbs of bodyweight protein rule is also nonsense!
(you will find out that DNP is not catabolic).

I lost about 14 lbs of pure fat while gaining 4 lbs of LBM from that exact cycle! Diet was normal as always and plenty of water!

Also remember that while "on" you will feel fat and bloated and your muscles will be anything but pumped!
Fun thing is 5-7 days after discontinuance you will see the drastic change in the mirror and on the scale!

Greets
Kingofmasters

LOL..... so normal diet - the cardio + DNP will yield the results

Good stuff..... I am gona give it a run after I get done cutting naturally for a few more weeks. Wish me luck, I'll keep ya posted.

Oh yea.... last question. So is it true that starchy carbs rice/potatos/bread make you hotter than sugary carbs?

<<LMO>>

**kingofmasters** · 07-31-2004, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by LeanMeOut

LOL..... so normal diet - the cardio + DNP will yield the results

Good stuff..... I am gona give it a run after I get done cutting naturally for a few more weeks. Wish me luck, I'll keep ya posted.

Oh yea.... last question. So is it true that starchy carbs rice/potatos/bread make you hotter than sugary carbs?

<<LMO>>

Cardio isn't necessary I think

But keep your intake of vegetables high
(especially any kind of Lettuce, cubecomber etc.)
Also Fruits (with the exception of Bananas/strawberries/grapes)
also combat a lot of sides
(refrigerate some Apples, Oranges, Mangos, Peaches and a Pineapple and you will have a tasty meal that also makes you feel more at ease while "on").
Also Water is essential!

Yes SV-1 claims that starcy carbs elevate that heated feeling
Bread and Rice don't for me but Potatoes do
(so maybe it has to do with Complex Poly-sacharide chains).

Greets
Kingofmasters

**Lozgod** · 07-31-2004, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by kingofmasters

Also Fruits (with the exception of Bananas/strawberries/grapes)
also combat a lot of sides

Whats wrong with Strawberries? I thought they were relatively low on the sugar/glycemic index?

**kingofmasters** · 07-31-2004, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Lozgod

Whats wrong with Strawberries? I thought they were relatively low on the sugar/glycemic index?

well actually it isn't a real concern on DNP it just is that most fruits have phytochemicals in them that refrain the body from metabolising most of the carbs (We just recently discovered this to be the reason why fruits aren't fattening!).

Bananas/Strawberries/grapes don't have this property and thus can be "fattening" (while I doubt when your on DNP that you will care)!

I wonder if I mixed my homemade phytochemicals-cap with some Orlistat, would that make the easiest and safest way to eating Junk-food
(which you can't deny is delicous) instead of "normal" meals without getting fat?
(Just Imagine: Hamburgers and KFC

for protein, Ice cream and chocolate for carbs etc.!)

Greets
Kingofmasters