A theory I cooked up; Semi-Permanent Fat loss?

[Lozgod]

Hey KOM, this is buried way back in the thread, but do you have any links for that thing about the phytochemicals and the fruit sugars?

[kingofmasters]

Hey KOM, this is buried way back in the thread, but do you have any links for that thing about the phytochemicals and the fruit sugars?

Morin, Luteolin, Quercetin, Kaempferol and Reservatol are especially good at supressing Sugars from being metabolized
(not to mention their life-extentioning abilities and positive effects on Lipid Levels and Cardiac Function).
Fisetin, Myrecetin, Baicalein, Galangin are far less effective
(In That order --> with the most effective one mentioned first and the least effective one mentioned last).

Epigallocachin, Epicatechin, Hesperetin, Taxifolin, Rutin, Flavonol, Flavone didn't do anything at all....

About Phytochemicals:
Li BH, Tian WX. Inhibitory effects of flavonoids on animal fatty acid synthase. J Biochem. 2004 Jan;135(1):85-91

Grapeseedextract inhibits fatcells from growing instead of inhibiting sugars being metabolized like the other phytochemicals!

About GrapeSeedExtract:
Moreno DA, Ilic N, Poulev A, Brasaemle DL, Fried SK, Raskin I. Inhibitory effects of grape seed extract on lipases. Nutrition. 2003 Oct;19(10):876-9.

Reservatol:
Which frees a lot of fatty acids from stubborn fat, makes fatcells more sensitive for Adrenaline, imitates caloric restriction and actually kills fatcells to a degree!
Not to mention its sex-boosting properties, its lifespan enhancing ability and the fact that it pumps your muscles full of Anti-oxidants especially in a
PWO-shake to make recovery easy and thus produce an anabolic enviroment!

About Reservatol!:
Picard F, Kurtev M, Chung N, Topark-Ngarm A, Senawong T, Machado De Oliveira R, Leid M, McBurney MW, Guarente L. Sirt1 promotes fat mobilization in white adipocytes by repressing PPAR-gamma. Nature. 2004 Jun 17;429(6993):771-6

Konrad Howitz, Kevin Bitterman, Haim Cohen, Dudley Lamming, Siva Lavu, Jason Wood, Robert Zipkin, Phuong Chung, Anne Kisielewski, Li-Li Zhang, Brandy Scherer, David Sinclair. Small molecule activators of sirtuins extend Saccharomyces cerevisiae lifespan. Nature 24 August 2003.

Molecules Discovered That Extend Life In Yeast, Human Cells; Group Of Compounds Found In Red Wine, Vegetables Simulate Benefit Of Low-calorie Diet. Science Daily, 25-8-2003

That's why I wondered a cap containing
a Fatinhibitor like Orlistat (or maybe an even more effective one in the future)
and a Glucose-inhibitor like the mentioned Flavonides and GrapeSeedExtract should make the eating of Fast Food/Junk Food perfectly acceptable!

Greets
Kingofmasters

[iNvid]

Prolly didnt see it but kom, what do you think about supplementing with Lutein? 20mg/day.

[kingofmasters]

Prolly didnt see it but kom, what do you think about supplementing with Lutein? 20mg/day.

Well it would be purely overkill...
But carotenoids like Lutein can't hurt...

One thing which is hard though while on DNP (whether it be low or high dose)
is a regular sleep-pattern!

[SV-1]

One thing which is hard though while on DNP (whether it be low or high dose)
is a regular sleep-pattern!

One reason I pop a benadryl every night before bed.

[Da Bull]

One reason I pop a benadryl every night before bed.

And the other is for allergy prevention correct?

[LeanMeOut]

And the other is for allergy prevention correct?

Yea.... incase you get that rash some people get from DNP . I know I am definitely going to use Benedryl


<<LMO>>

[kingofmasters]

Yea.... incase you get that rash some people get from DNP . I know I am definitely going to use Benedryl


<<LMO>>

I got that rash the first and part of the second cycle...
I never took citadrizine HCL...

But by cycle 3 (actually end of cycle 2; so 2,5) I never developed an allergy any more...

Still Anti-histamines can aid in fat loss if supplemented with Ephedrine and Yohimbine!

[LeanMeOut]

I got that rash the first and part of the second cycle...
I never took citadrizine HCL...

But by cycle 3 (actually end of cycle 2; so 2,5) I never developed an allergy any more...

Still Anti-histamines can aid in fat loss if supplemented with Ephedrine and Yohimbine!

Cool.... well here is a list of the supplements I will be using for this DNP run:


Vitamin E
Calcium
ECY
Green Tea Extract
Cranberry Extract
Multivitamin
Milk Thistle
Vit C
R-ALA / Biotin
Potassium
Taurine
Benadryl


Now a question: is Magnesium needed??


<<LMO>>

[MrDezel]

Safe to say that I just learned a lot of new stuff about DNP !!!

Great post bro!

[kingofmasters]

Cool.... well here is a list of the supplements I will be using for this DNP run:


Vitamin E
Calcium
ECY
Green Tea Extract
Cranberry Extract
Multivitamin
Milk Thistle
Vit C
R-ALA / Biotin
Potassium
Taurine
Benadryl


Now a question: is Magnesium needed??


<<LMO>>

Green Tea Extract isn't needed since it negatively affects the cafeine your taking (in the ECY).

ECY
(should contain SYNTHETIC guggelsterones and SYNTHETIC yohimbine both available at 1fast400)
Ephedrine/Cafeine/Yohimbine/Guggelsterones/Acetyl-L-carnitine
@ 25/200/5/40/75 mg!

Cranberry Extract and Milkthistle not needed!!

Heck skip it all just do:

2-10 gram Potassium Gluconoate
ECY (E/C/Y/G/A @ 25/200/5/40/75 mg)
2x Vitamin C @ 500 mg
2x Vitamin E @ 400 IU
1x Multi Vitamin/Mineral

Optional:
Ketotifen
Melatonin
R-ALA
Magnesium (very useful in higher dosages like 400 mg!)
Taurine @ 500 mg ED

[LeanMeOut]

Green Tea Extract isn't needed since it negatively affects the cafeine your taking (in the ECY).

ECY
(should contain SYNTHETIC guggelsterones and SYNTHETIC yohimbine both available at 1fast400)
Ephedrine/Cafeine/Yohimbine/Guggelsterones/Acetyl-L-carnitine
@ 25/200/5/40/75 mg!

Cranberry Extract and Milkthistle not needed!!

Heck skip it all just do:

2-10 gram Potassium Gluconoate
ECY (E/C/Y/G/A @ 25/200/5/40/75 mg)
2x Vitamin C @ 500 mg
2x Vitamin E @ 400 IU
1x Multi Vitamin/Mineral

Optional:
Ketotifen
Melatonin
R-ALA
Magnesium (very useful in higher dosages like 400 mg!)
Taurine @ 500 mg ED

Cool stuff..... thanks for the info


<<LMO>>

[kingofmasters]

Cool stuff..... thanks for the info


<<LMO>>

No prob bro,
people tend to use TOO much supplements on DNP .
Therefore making it way too complicated and frightening

In low dose cycles the described supplements are more than enough!

In dosages like 600/800/1000 mg ED
Magnesium/Phytochemicals/GSE become essential!

[SV-1]

And the other is for allergy prevention correct?

Yep. I've never had that allergic reaction (maybe partly because of the benadryl), plus it does help you sleep.

[iNvid]

KOM mind checking out my supp list bro? I would appreciate it.

Vitamin C: 1g / day

Viatmin E: 400-600iu / day

Calcium: 1g / day before bed
ZMA: 3 tabs / day
Biotin: 4mg. /day - 1mg for each 100mg ALA
ALA: 400mg / day
Lutein: 20mg / day
Potassium: 2g
Taurine: 2-4g / day

[iNvid]

I have the ECY but I'll be on my last week of animal cuts during my dnp cycle. Guess I forgot to add that in. So all I really need are the vitamins and benadryl?

Too much taurine (you can even skip it), ZMA and Calcium not really necessary (actually not necessary at all).
Lutein and Biotin/ala also no need for...

Especially since I remember you talking about an 8 day cycle!

BUT!!

Where's your ECY?

Also have Ketotifen and Melatonin on hand (for allergy and insomnia).

If you experience decreased strength or muscle cramps
(cramps are not likely at such a dose), up the Potassium...

[kingofmasters]

I have the ECY but I'll be on my last week of animal cuts during my dnp cycle. Guess I forgot to add that in. So all I really need are the vitamins and benadryl?

Yes, just up the Vitamin E a bit...

Don't forget Ketotifen and Melatonin...

You are only doing a 8 day cycle @ 200 mg, so no need for all the "hassle"

And the Potassium!

[LeanMeOut]

Yes, just up the Vitamin E a bit...

Don't forget Ketotifen and Melatonin...

You are only doing a 8 day cycle @ 200 mg, so no need for all the "hassle"

And the Potassium!

What is the Ketotifen for??

<<LMO>>

[iNvid]

Yes, just up the Vitamin E a bit...

Don't forget Ketotifen and Melatonin...

You are only doing a 8 day cycle @ 200 mg, so no need for all the
"hassle"

Ok, I know some other people are also interested in an 8day 200mg cycle so lets just make a final list for myself and everyone else.

Vitamin C: 1g / day
Viatmin E: 800-1200 / day
Potassium: 2g / day
Benadryl: 1 cap a day before bed throughout the cycle and another week after. (What my source recommended.)

Would it be wise to add 25mg ephedrine in? I heard that it wont mix well it Animal Cuts.

And Benadryl could be substitued for the keto correct?

[kingofmasters]

What is the Ketotifen for??

<<LMO>>

As Anti-histamine (for Allergies)
As sleeping Aid
Upgrading the Fatcell receptors
Keeping the ECY effective (during longer runs like 30 days)

IMO 5 mg of Ketotifen HCL or 5-10 mg of Ketotifen Fumurate before bed, replaces both the Benadryl and the Melatonin with some added benefits like described above...

Chinaman carries 1 mg Ketotifen tablets seeing in most countries it's prescription-only...

[kingofmasters]

Would it be wise to add 25mg ephedrine in? I heard that it wont mix well it Animal Cuts

ECY already contains ephedrine!

[iNvid]

As Anti-histamine (for Allergies)
As sleeping Aid
Upgrading the Fatcell receptors
Keeping the ECY effective (during longer runs like 30 days)

IMO 5 mg of Ketotifen HCL or 5-10 mg of Ketotifen Fumurate before bed, replaces both the Benadryl and the Melatonin with some added benefits like described above...

Chinaman carries 1 mg Ketotifen tablets seeing in most countries it's prescription-only...

If one cant get ketotifen, would Melatonin and Benadryl be enough? Last question...does the list I stated above look good?

[iNvid]

ECY already contains ephedrine!

Yeah I know that lol. NVM I got us both confused. Sorry.

[LeanMeOut]

I am just going to use Melatonin and Benadryl..... I feel that is enough. I already got both so I am going to stick with them


<<LMO>>

[kingofmasters]

If one cant get ketotifen, would Melatonin and Benadryl be enough? Last question...does the list I stated above look good?

Yes, just skip nonsense like Animal Stacks
and make a homebrew ECY cap! (E/C/Y/G/A @ 25/200/5/40/75 mg)

ECY
(should contain SYNTHETIC guggelsterones and SYNTHETIC yohimbine both available at 1fast400)
Ephedrine/Cafeine/Yohimbine/Guggelsterones/Acetyl-L-carnitine
@ 25/200/5/40/75 mg!)

[kingofmasters]

I am just going to use Melatonin and Benadryl..... I feel that is enough. I already got both so I am going to stick with them


<<LMO>>

Will also work!

[LeanMeOut]

Yes, just skip nonsense like Animal Stacks
and make a homebrew ECY cap! (E/C/Y/G/A @ 25/200/5/40/75 mg)

ECY
(should contain SYNTHETIC guggelsterones and SYNTHETIC yohimbine both available at 1fast400)
Ephedrine/Cafeine/Yohimbine/Guggelsterones/Acetyl-L-carnitine
@ 25/200/5/40/75 mg!)

I did a search at 1fast400 and didn't come across SYNTHETIC guggelsterones....


<<LMO>>

[kingofmasters]

I did a search at 1fast400 and didn't come across SYNTHETIC guggelsterones....


<<LMO>>

It's under Bulk Fatloss Agents, and it is the best available since it has a ratio
of approximately
70% E to 30% Z
(synthetic guggelsterones mixture).

[rambo]

Major props to KOM. My humble suggestion would be a final post for a low dose cycle that includes proper supplementation, concentration levels, diet, and precautions. I know it's asking a bit much, but a post like that will really free up your time from all the repetitive questions, and sum it all up really well.

[rambo]

That's why I wondered a cap containing
a Fatinhibitor like Orlistat (or maybe an even more effective one in the future)
and a Glucose-inhibitor like the mentioned Flavonides and GrapeSeedExtract should make the eating of Fast Food/Junk Food perfectly acceptable!

Interesting. Very.

[spywizard]

Major props to KOM. My humble suggestion would be a final post for a low dose cycle that includes proper supplementation, concentration levels, diet, and precautions. I know it's asking a bit much, but a post like that will really free up your time from all the repetitive questions, and sum it all up really well.

yep////

[kingofmasters]

Started summarizing everything!

[SV-1]

Can someone tell me how to upload a zip file like in this post.

http://forums.anabolicreview.com/sho...10&postcount=1

Because I made two excel spreadsheets that automatically calculate your DNP doses, but have no way to attach them (says invalid file type). But it can be done cuz the guy on that post did it.

[iNvid]

Can someone tell me how to upload a zip file like in this post.

http://forums.anabolicreview.com/sho...10&postcount=1

Because I made two excel spreadsheets that automatically calculate your DNP doses, but have no way to attach them (says invalid file type). But it can be done cuz the guy on that post did it.

I think they might have taken that option off. That post was a year ago. The current extensions are : bmp doc gif jpe jpeg jpg pdf png psd txt. By the way, rambo's idea is great. it will really help anyone that hasnt been following this thread recently and that just needs some quick info.

[SV-1]

I think they might have taken that option off. That post was a year ago. The current extensions are : bmp doc gif jpe jpeg jpg pdf png psd txt. By the way, rambo's idea is great. it will really help anyone that hasnt been following this thread recently and that just needs some quick info.

Yeah, the admin says they don't allow those types. He said send it to him and then they may post it. I put it up on BDBB, so worst case people can get it there.

[kingofmasters]

After over 200 posts it got kind of confusing so a summary is in place:

This story is about low dose long DNP cycles as opposed to the traditional high dose short cycles.

Many boards have DNP-guides, but in essence they are the same 3 guides over and over again; These guides are not only outdated, they tend to over do the supplements thus making it more complicated than needed and they are life-threatening to newbies because they don't elaborate enough on important aspects as the 36-hour half-life (thus the accumalative effect) and the elektrolyte-loss (they just tell you to drink V8 ).
Not only that but instead of REALLY BASING THEIRSELVES ON SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH, they just post some PUBMED researches and long quotes out of them (not summarized or put in lay-mans terms), just to impress the reader!
And often you have the feeling that they really don't know what they are talking about, also they tend to tell more about its history than its practical use and action (BY KNOW WE ALL KNOW IT WAS USED AS AN EXPLOSIVE, INSECTICIDE, YELLOW PAINT etc.)!
They don't elaborate enough on Practical inconveniences as well; The foultasting and dry mouth one gets and the fact that if you are making the caps yourself without precautions it is very likely to cover the room with unremovable (except with TEK) Yellow stains everywhere.
The final and most important thing is that this new approach is not only at least as effective at fat loss or even more so, but also countless times more convenient and with countless less horrible sides!

A REVOLUTION IS UPON US!!

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The new approach to cycling DNP:

DNP has a 36-hour half-life meaning it will build up in your blood and due to it being an exponential 2nd degree math function, after a certain amount of time the accumalative effect will be too small (insignificant) and thus bloodlevels will peak and remain stable...

The international Physics formula for Half-life:

In physics
with:
N(0) = dosage at time zero
N(t) = dosage left at recent time
t(1/2) = half life in seconds/hours/days/years (depending on compound)

N(t) = N (0) x (1/2)^(t/t(1/2))

at 200 mg every day the peaklevel will be 540 mg...
@ day 6 you will already be over 500 mg...!

(but given the margin of error in capping and dosingtimes we take 600 mg as standard!)

more info: http://67.18.108.244//showpost.php?p...&postcount=114

So a 20 day cycle @ 200 mg ED, will result in a 540 mg peaklevel which is a very comfortable dose for any healthy grown man!

A 20 day cycle will also yield great results, most likely greater than a "horrifying sideful" traditional 8 day cycle @ 400 mg.

Most of you who are trying DNP for the first time are not willing to jump in a
20 day cycle right away, so a 10 or 12 day cycle @ 200 mg will be more suitable, just make sure that you carbdeplete 2 days in advance for optimum results in such a short low dose cycle...

DNP IS NOT SUITABLE FOR WOMEN AND MORBIDLY OBESE PEOPLE!!

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Mechanism of action:
http://67.18.108.244//showthread.php?t=1182

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Beneficial Properties:

1. DNP is both Liver and kidneyfriendly.
2. DNP has anti-catabolic properties.
3. DNP boosts the immunesystem
4. DNP is Anti-Carcinogenic
5. DNP is non-hormonal and thus fatloss is easier to maintain

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sides:

At such a low dose the most likely sides will be:
Sweating (+ feeling hot)
Heavy breathing
Irregular Sleep Pattern
Rashes for some (take an anti-histamine for this, if it lasts discontinue DNP!)
Lethargy
Decreased Strength
Musclecramps (Not likely at all especially at such a dose with enough mineralsupplementation).
Increased Hunger
(especially Sugar-cravings, Sibutramine totally annihilates this side!)

Note:
I got "the rash" the first and last part of the second cycle...
I never took citadrizine HCL...
But by cycle 3 (actually end of cycle 2; so 2,5) I never developed an allergy any more...
Still Anti-histamines can aid in fat loss if supplemented with Ephedrine and Yohimbine!

All these can be combatted to a certain extent...

Practical Sides:

DNP will provide a hideous sent of it under your Armpits due to the sweating
(especially in the last few days) so always wash under your armpits a couple of times a day and put plenty deodorant under it even before bed
(I swear the scent will annoy you in bed).

DNP leaves a foul and dry taste in your mouth all day long; I found out that
drinking Diet Softdrinks helps against it so sweets always get the taste away, but seeing we want to LOSE weight Diet soda is the best option!
(normal softdrinks contain sugar and we WANT TO LOSE WEIGHT
best bets: Fanta, Fanta Pomelo, Fanta Cassis, Fanta Lemon, Coca Cola Lemon, Sprite etc. ALL LIGHT!).
I finish about 2 bottles a day
(Ice cold preferabely also seeing drinking water all day gets tiresome!!).

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Effectivity:

All over messgeboards I read that an ECA boosts metabolism by 3%,
Clen + T3 20% and DNP 50-75%!

I don't know where people get these numbers but it is not true!

Fat loss not only has to do with metabolism, but also with many other processes like affecting alpha and betareceptors
(why Yohimbine has got such fatloss potential for "love handles").
Increased metabolism also means better proteinsynthesis, which is not always the case with these fatburners!

Not to mention a 75%-boost on DNP would not make sense since for instance let's take a 2000 calorie boost (And that would mean a maintenance
Caloric Requirement of about 2800 Kcal a day!!, which is very high!)
--> giving a maximum of 250 gram pure fat loss a day!
That would mean an 8 day cycle would yield a maximum of 2 Kg fatloss
(I know the offdays count as well but that would be compensated by glycogen-reserves, increased appetite etc.).

The real deal:
A degree Fahrenheit increase in BMR on DNP is equal to a
120% boosted Caloric-expense!

Practical Effectivity:
Now here's the big question......
will it yield the same results fat loss-wise as the shorter higher dose cycles?

Yes, not only shall the DNP be more effective, but things like T2 and Yohimbine need longer cycles to work their magic and thus you will have even better results!
(also the fat loss will be more gradually from the ancillaries and thus prove easier to maintain that weight).

Note: The Scale will lie and so will the mirror!
Due to the waterbloat and thus waterweight
(The waterbloat is less obvious then with Deca for instance since it "hides" around the middlesection + lovehandles!), also the carbdepletion will make your muscles appear less "pumped".

So remember that while "on" you will feel fat and bloated and your muscles will be anything but pumped!
Fun thing is 5-7 days after discontinuance you will see the drastic change in the mirror and on the scale!

The feeling one gets when coming off is great
(no more sweating, dry mouth, clearance of bloat etc.)!

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Weightloss is semi-permanent!:

I and many other people have noticed that after a DNP-cycle even after months less than 50% of the weightloss is gained back.
(And that is even with crappy training and diet)
While common rule in dieting is that the more weight one loses in a
short time span, the more likely he/she is to gain all that weight back plus even a bit more fat most of the times (the dreaded YOYO-effect!!).

Also this research confirms that 3 obese people (2 men and a women) after
long term T3 and DNP supplementation lost a lot of weight and managed
TO KEEP IT OFF!

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...RS=PN/4,673,691

As to so many cases of people not experiencing a drastic rebound with DNP
(anything that guarantees under 50% of the weightloss gained back is an effective diet-aid in my opinion) it got me thinking as to WHY...

So a simple theory which I came up with:

DNP is so dangerous, because it doesn't involve in a feedback system
(meaning if there is to much present in the blood there is no way the body can combat that).
Also it is non-hormonal
(hormonal systems always have a feedback-mechanism).

This means that it doesn't affect your body's "setpoint"
(which is what your body thinks is your "healthy" weight and thus always wants to return to that point).

Some mechanisms in the "setpoint" are still unknown but it mostly has to do with dopamine/adrenaline and the various Neuropeptides
(especially B, K and Y that all regulate appetite).

The "setpoint" is best adjusted if weightloss is as gradually as possible
(phentermine users always get the yo-yo effect meaning all the lost weight
+ some new fat comes back after discontinuance; not only because fat is lost so rapidly but mainly because it affects all those "setpoint" features and after discontinuance they will try to regain homeostasis!).

DNP has no (significant) role in manipulating the "setpoint"
(meaning your body will not feel the urge to gain some weight after discontinuance).
Also it competes with T3, meaning after you stop DNP, T3 will peak
(instead of like with most diets; will be on low)
couple that with the fact that it is not catabolic
(actually a bit anti-catabolic for that matter) so your BMR stays
rougly the same after the DNP-cycle.

And the conclusion confirms the reality -->
Fat loss induced by DNP is not likely to come back for a significant part!

Note:
Most people supplement certain compounds with DNP -->
I for instance take Sibutramine, T2, T3 and an ECY which are
most likely to be the MAIN cause of the "gained weight afterwards"
due to the KNOWN disturbance of some processes in the body's metabolism by these ancillaries.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

First things, First! --> Obtaining DNP

1) Make it yourself!

Unless you are an experienced homebrewer I can not advise to do this,
DNP stains are impossible to remove (with the exception of with TEKTROL), and the DNP powder is at its cheapest $1 (for small amounts) per gram, considering the fact that you pay $1 for a 200 mg cap on average and you only need a small amount of caps per cycle; it is not worth it...

The pro with making it yourself is that you can add all sorts of things in thus minimizing the amount of tabs/caps/powder one has to swallow.

I used to make them containing per cap:
200 mg DNP
100 mg Quercetin (anti-histamine and anti-oxidant)
10 mg Sibutramine HCL (Appetite suppresant)
150 mg Magnesium Malate
180 mg Synthetic Vitamin E (Comes down to 400 IE/IU)
5 mg Vitamin B12
5 mg Yohimbine HCL

2) Buying them:

As to such a potentially dangerous substance, if over dosed,
I wouldn't buy it unless it was from someone who is really well known.
There is such a guy and he makes the 200 mg DNP caps with 200 mg Quercetin (Anti-histamine and Anti-oxidant) in them for just $1.
If you are a regular on this board and are well respected here, you can ask a mod/vet for his e-mail; Normally i wouldn't post this but it is due to the fact that in case of DNP you have to have a real trusted dealer!

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Usage --> Diet:

Lots of Water! and other fluids like DietSodas!

A diet while on DNP is nonsense since due to its non-hormonal actions there is no benefit in shifting nutrients.

You will get bad sugar-cravings though!
(Yohimbine, Ephedrine and especially Sibutramine are effective in combatting this!).

Just remember that carbs will get you heated
(so after carb intake you will start to feel warm for about 10 minutes, but without carbs you will find everything to taste disgusting!).

The 2 gram per lbs of bodyweight protein rule is also nonsense!
(DNP is not catabolic at all).

Keep your intake of vegetables high
(especially any kind of Lettuce, cubecomber etc.)
Also Fruits (with the exception of Bananas/strawberries/grapes)
do combat a lot of sides
(refrigerate some Apples, Oranges, Mangos, Peaches and a Pineapple and you will have a tasty meal that also makes you feel more at ease while "on").

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Supplementing T2 and T3 or not?:

This has been a controversial subject...

Let's clear some things up (MALLET will thank me for it!):
T3 is NOT catabolic!
In certain amounts it is very ANABOLIC ....

T2 + T3 help DNP operate at peak efficiency; Maximizing Fat Loss!

Especially since the thyroid can shut down, the amounts we supplement are quite anabolic/anti-catabolic (Why I GAINED 4 lbs LBM)!

For the people afraid of suppressing their thyroid:
Fact is T3 and DNP compete a little, so supplementing T3 on a DNP-cycle would be far less suppresive on TSH than on a T3/Clen or T3-only cycle.
Not to mention the fact that getting off DNP would give your Thryroid a boost too so recovering would be easier than from the proposed T3-only cycle...

T2 info (there is little info available on such a wonderful substance!):

(((((I read most Pubmed researces on Thyroid-metabolites and found this to be the found most important things to know)))))

- Potencywise: 400 mcg T2 = 50 mcg T3
- T2 is far less catabolic than T3 even when abused:
- T2 is far less supressive on FSH than T3
- 3,5-T2 is more suitable for fat loss than 3,3-T2.
- T2 is only active for about an hour.
- T2 is most effective when supplemented with T3
(or when natural production of T3 is high).
- Although T3 has a long half-life, periodic intervals per day of taking it yields far better results!

T2 is best taken as much divided during the day as possible; 3 is a minimum
(it is only active for one hour and preferabely with meals since it will burn all the fats/carbos you get in immediately!).

T2 unlike T3 is not likely to be catabolic even when abused
(as previously mentioned T3 engaged in proper usage is quite anabolic!).

T2 is available @ Team LR

P.S. Team LR probably uses ethanol (Nail polish remover) as a dissolver so the stuff tastes like crap, right before taking it, put it in an Empty cap
(the cap will dissolve within 2 minutes of coming in contact with a liquid so take it just before!).

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Proper supplementation:

People tend to use TOO MUCH supplements on DNP.
Therefore making it way too complicated and frightening

In low dose cycles the described supplements (below) are more than enough!

In dosages like 600/800/1000 mg ED
Magnesium/Phytochemicals/GSE become essential!

2-10 gram Potassium Gluconoate ED
ECY (E/C/Y/G/A @ 25/200/5/40/75 mg)
2x Vitamin C @ 500 mg
2x Vitamin E @ 400 IU
3x 400 mcg T2
3x 15 mcg T3

Optional:
Ketotifen or Benadryl (preferabely on hand!)
Melatonin (preferabely on hand!)
R-ALA
Magnesium (very useful in higher dosages like 400 mg DNP or more!)
Taurine @ 500 mg ED

ECY (E/C/Y/G/A @ 25/200/5/40/75 mg):
Ephedrine/Cafeine/Yohimbine/Guggelsterones/Acetyl-L-carnitine
@ 25/200/5/40/75 mg!
(should contain SYNTHETIC guggelsterones and SYNTHETIC yohimbine both available at 1fast400).

Usage: To combat Lethargy, Curb Appetite and Cravings, to free fatty acid for better fatburning and for better fatburning in "stubborn fat".

T2 + T3:
Fatloss, preventing lethargy and maybe even anabolism/anti-catabolism

Vitamin C & Vitamin E:
Basically all the Anti-oxidants you need: A Watersoluble and a Fatsoluble one!
due to their activity-span take twice a day!

Potassium Gluconoate:
You loose alot of minerals through sweating!
The elektrolytes you have to replace are Sodium and Potassium
(in Latin Natrium and Kalium),
sodium is relatively easy to get through ones diet
(tablesalt is sodiumchloride/natriumchloride).
Potassium is a little harder to get
(Still Potassium is present in a lot of vegetables).

10 grams a day of Potassium Gluconoate is best
(actually 10 grams is way overkill especially since that would mean
1,6 gram of Potassiumsupplementation a day for a 200 mg cycle).
2 grams is more than enough...

Potassium Gluconoate will keep strength up and battle muscle cramps!

Potassium gluconoate (16% Potassium) is $20 per 3 lbs at 1fast400!

Ketotifen or Benadryl (Ketotifen is much more potent):
As Anti-histamine (for Allergies)
As sleeping Aid (take before bed!)
Upgrading the Fatcell receptors
Keeping the ECY effective (during longer runs like 30 days)

Melatonin:
Anti-oxdidant + Sleeping Aid.

Taurine
Compensate Taurine Levels in Liver...

Magnesium or R-ala
As Anti-Oxidant!

Obtaining supplements:
1fast400 for all the bulkpowders for the ECY (and all the other supplements)
animalkits for Vitamin E powder

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DNP for PCT: Will elaborate on that later!

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Funny Note:
Hitler gave it to his troops invading russia to keep them warm during Russia's infamous winters!

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Greets
Kingofmasters

[kingofmasters]

Morin, Luteolin, Quercetin, Kaempferol and Reservatol are especially good at supressing Sugars from being metabolized
(not to mention their life-extentioning abilities and positive effects on Lipid Levels and Cardiac Function).
Fisetin, Myrecetin, Baicalein, Galangin are far less effective
(In That order --> with the most effective one mentioned first and the least effective one mentioned last).

Epigallocachin, Epicatechin, Hesperetin, Taxifolin, Rutin, Flavonol, Flavone didn't do anything at all....

About Phytochemicals:
Li BH, Tian WX. Inhibitory effects of flavonoids on animal fatty acid synthase. J Biochem. 2004 Jan;135(1):85-91

Grapeseedextract inhibits fatcells from growing instead of inhibiting sugars being metabolized like the other phytochemicals!

About GrapeSeedExtract:
Moreno DA, Ilic N, Poulev A, Brasaemle DL, Fried SK, Raskin I. Inhibitory effects of grape seed extract on lipases. Nutrition. 2003 Oct;19(10):876-9.

Reservatol:
Which frees a lot of fatty acids from stubborn fat, makes fatcells more sensitive for Adrenaline, imitates caloric restriction and actually kills fatcells to a degree!
Not to mention its sex-boosting properties, its lifespan enhancing ability and the fact that it pumps your muscles full of Anti-oxidants especially in a
PWO-shake to make recovery easy and thus produce an anabolic enviroment!

About Reservatol!:
Picard F, Kurtev M, Chung N, Topark-Ngarm A, Senawong T, Machado De Oliveira R, Leid M, McBurney MW, Guarente L. Sirt1 promotes fat mobilization in white adipocytes by repressing PPAR-gamma. Nature. 2004 Jun 17;429(6993):771-6

Konrad Howitz, Kevin Bitterman, Haim Cohen, Dudley Lamming, Siva Lavu, Jason Wood, Robert Zipkin, Phuong Chung, Anne Kisielewski, Li-Li Zhang, Brandy Scherer, David Sinclair. Small molecule activators of sirtuins extend Saccharomyces cerevisiae lifespan. Nature 24 August 2003.

Molecules Discovered That Extend Life In Yeast, Human Cells; Group Of Compounds Found In Red Wine, Vegetables Simulate Benefit Of Low-calorie Diet. Science Daily, 25-8-2003

That's why I wondered a cap containing
a Fatinhibitor like Orlistat (or maybe an even more effective one in the future)
and a Glucose-inhibitor like the mentioned Flavonides and GrapeSeedExtract should make the eating of Fast Food/Junk Food perfectly acceptable!

Greets
Kingofmasters

[Da Bull]

WOW...very nice touch on a great thread!!!!!!!!!!!!

[iNvid]

I think KOM needs a standing ovation...

[SV-1]

Here are two excel spreadsheets I made to help people plan their DNP cycles.


DNP - Single Time Dosing: This sheet is for when the time between all doses is going to be the same (IE every 12, 24, or 36 hours). It's easier and faster to use.

DNP - Multi Time Dosing: This sheet is for when the time between doses is going to vary (IE second dose in 24 hours, third dose in 12 hours, fourth dose in 36 hours). Because every dose time needs to be entered individually it takes a little more time to use.

DNP Spreadsheets.zip