Page 2 of 18 FirstFirst 123456712 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 80 of 707
Like Tree12Likes

Thread: Clen Faq. You better like it it took me ages.

  1. #41
    Giants11's Avatar
    Giants11 is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    5,714
    Quote Originally Posted by perfectbeast2001
    Clen FAQ

    After reading and answering the same questions every week I decided to write this FAQ. Hopefully it will answer the most commonly asked questions about Clen and also dispel some of the myths and untruths associated with it. I have a lot of personal experience with Clen. I used to weigh over 315lbs at over 30%BF. With a good diet and the help of Clen I managed to shed over 100lbs of fat, finally tipping the scales at 180lbs and under 9%BF. I will not be including huge amounts of technical and scientific info as many will find that boring and the idea is that someone new to Clen can glean some useful info from here without falling asleep! If you wish to get more technical then check out Anthony Roberts' Clen profile in the "steroid profile" section of the forum

    Q. What is Clen?

    A. Clenbuterol is a prescription drug. It is a bronchodilator which means it is given to patients to improve bronchial airflow (helps people breathe easier). It is commonly prescribed to asthmatics and for many other illnesses which cause breathing difficulty. Clen is often self administered as an "off label" fat loss drug. Many have used this compound to shed pounds very effectively.

    Q I have a liquid/tablet/spray is this ok?

    A. Clen is available in a variety of guises. The most common being tablets typically in the 20mcg format. I have also seen them dosed at 25mcg and 40mcg. There is a syrup solution which was once popular on prescription but this is not often seen now. A growing market is the "research chem" market. These are chemicals marketed towards lab experimentation (therefore bypassing strict laws about selling prescription meds) but are actually meant for consumption by the customer. The Clen from these companies is usually sold in a vial or spray bottle and the compound is suspended in solvent. The solution is dropped into the mouth with an oral or normal syringe or some are supplied with a spray which gives a measured dose orally. Much like UGLs the quality of these research chem products varies widely. Some are under or over dosed while others contain no active ingredients at all. The best advice is to find a recommended source that people you trust have used successfully. I would recommend using ARR as I feel Lion offers quality products and service. The reason people buy from research chem companies is that the compounds would be hard to obtain otherwise and the chem companies are usually much cheaper than human grade. Make sure you take note of the dosage on the product you are buying. Last but not least there are a couple of injectable versions. There are prescription injectables that to be honest are pretty rare now days. One injectable version is gaining quite a following though. Helios is a mix of Clen and Yohimbine and is designed to be used for spot fat loss (the area injected will have fat loss). Users of this product have been very happy with it. I do not know the dosage schedules for injectable products so do some good research if you are going to use them.

    Q. Will It Harm Me?

    A. Clen has been shown in some studies to cause heart problems. These studies were conducted on animals and they were given very large doses. It may also be possible to do yourself some permanent and possibly serious harm if you took a large overdose. With Clen more does not = better! I have never met or spoken to anyone who has been harmed as a direct result of using Clen. This does not mean it won't happen though. Like all drugs caution should be used and one should be very aware that there could be possible side effects.

    The lastest studies done on rats actaully show that clen would cause myocyte death in rather small doses, doses which would equate to a 200lb man taking 100mcg per day which is certainly not unheard of. Also I'm not sure how anyone would be able to judge whether or not Clen harmed them as heart cell death issue might not manifest themselves until much later in life. Especially if one is pre-disposed to any heart conditions.
    Q. What Are The Side Effects and how do I cope with them?

    A. Clens side effects include - high blood pressure, shaking, headaches, cramps, insomnia and increased heart rate/palpitations. While using Clen I would advise you monitor your blood pressure. The machines for this can be bought extremely cheaply at a chemist and are invaluable if you use Clen and/or AS. If your BP is high then lower the dose or discontinue until normal BP is attained. Shaking is a common side effect. While on Clen I get shaky hands when I am writing or performing intricate tasks. If you find you are shaking too much/all the time then you may try lowering the dose and then bringing it back up slowly over a few days. Headaches are fairly common. Be careful they are not a result of high BP. If they are not then taking an OTC painkiller will cure your problem. Cramps while on Clen are associated with Taurine. Taurine is an amino acid that is present in the body. Clen affects the bodyís level of Taurine and this can sometimes cause cramps. Supplementing Taurine (I take 2g pre workout and 2g PWO) should cure this. If you still have cramps try supplementing with potassium and examine your salt intake (make sure itís not too high) these are not Clen related but could help with the cramps! Insomnia is common if Clen is taken to near to bed time, basically make sure your last dose is taken 5-6 hours before bed. Saying that Clen has a long half-life (over 30 hours) so sometimes you may try lowering the dose if it is really affecting sleep. Another remedy may be to take some Valerian root before bed to help you sleep. If you have palpitation then lower dose or discontinue. You may want to check with a doctor as heart problems are no joke and should not be ignored. I think I have covered the most common side effects but there are probably many others that relate to the individual. If you believe you have serious or worrying sides, go see the doc.

    Q. OK I Want To Take It But How?

    A. Well there are several popular dosing protocols with Clen. It boils down to maybe trying them and finding out which one works/feels comfortable for you. Clen differs in dosage and effects from each individual. Some people claim that they are completely immune to the effects of Clen and it does not help them at all, although I have never seen any scientific reasoning behind it. However enough people have said it for there to be some truth in it. The most important thing to remember when using Clen is that the body quickly becomes tolerant to it. Clen down regulates receptors in the body and eventually (usually in the second or third week) results have slowed to a stop. For this reason Clen has a variety of dosage protocols designed to prevent this down regulation. Firstly we need to start at a low dose and slowly build up to a dose that is effective but not uncomfortable. I would recommend starting at 60mcg. Stay at that dosage for three days then up the dose by 20mcg. Repeat this process until you reach a dosage where you can really feel the Clen working (slight shakes, slightly faster HR). You may want to take your body temp daily while doing this. An effective dose will raise the body temp by about 1/2 a degree. You can also monitor when it becomes ineffective as temp will drop back to normal. My Clen dosage looks some thing like this when I'm starting.


    Day 1 60mcg
    Day 2 60mcg
    Day 3 60mcg
    Day 4 80mcg
    Day 5 80mcg
    Day 6 80mcg
    Day 7 100mcg
    Day 8 100mcg
    Day 9 100mcg
    Day 10 120mcg
    Day 11 120mcg
    I normally stop at 120mcg as this dosage works for me with minimal sides.

    I take all my Clen in the AM before cardio. Many don't lie to take it all at once and split the dosage throughout the day. I find that if I do this the last dose affects my sleep and I quite like feeling a bit "wired" in the morning! Some people will stop using Clen at day 14. They will then take 14 days off to allow the beta receptors to up regulate. They can then recommence and the Clen will be effective again for a further 14 days. More recently it has become fashionable to use an antihistamine compound to up regulate the beta receptors while remaining on Clen. This is my preferred method. There are two ways I know of doing this.

    1. use zaditen/ketoifen taken at 2-3mg per day along with the Clen. Users report staying on for 12 weeks plus and the Clen is still effective. The downside is that many people get very drowsy using these compounds and are unable to train properly.

    2. Take 50mg of Benadryl or another antihistamine containing 50mg of diphenhydrmine (sleep ease from boots chemist if you are in UK!) every night during every third week while you are on Clen. So I would dose my Clen as usual and at day 21 I would add the Benadryl every night for 7 nights. Discontinue the Benadryl until day 42 and repeat. I favour this method as it helps me sleep and does not affect my performance in the day. I believe we can thank Anthony Roberts for this method.

    There is another method that I have seen many people using. It is common to use the 2 weeks on 2 weeks off method but use ECA (ephedrine,caffiene,aspirin) during the off weeks. This method is totally pointless and counter productive. The whole point of taking two weeks off is to allow beta receptors to up regulate making Clen effective again. ECA down regulates these receptors (plus hitting a load of others) just like Clen. Therefore the receptors never up regulate and Clen + ECA becomes ineffective.

    Q. How do I come off?

    A. I normally lower the dose slowly day by day until I am off as I donít like to suddenly shocking the body, however there is no evidence to say it is detrimental to come straight off it is just my personal choice.


    Well I hope that has answered some questions. I will update/add to this when I think of anything new!

    PB.

    Not saying that I total disagree with Clen use, but there are some serious side effect potential. Which is why I have personally decided never to use it again.
    "without your word you're a shell of a man" - Tupac

    ***Giants11 is a fictional character any advice given is purely for entertainment purposes, always consult a physician before taking any supplements, drugs or changing your diet.***

  2. #42
    perfectbeast2001's Avatar
    perfectbeast2001 is offline "king of free stuff" / Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    7,979
    I am very interested in any sides that you know of that are not listed here. please post some details. Thanks.

  3. #43
    Giants11's Avatar
    Giants11 is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    5,714
    Here you go:


    Myotoxic effects of clenbuterol in the rat heart and soleus muscle.

    Burniston JG, Ng Y, Clark WA, Colyer J, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.

    Research Institute for Sport and Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Liverpool L3 2ET, United Kingdom. [email protected]

    Myocyte-specific necrosis in the heart and soleus muscle of adult male Wistar rats was investigated in response to a single subcutaneous injection of the anabolic beta(2)-adrenergic receptor agonist clenbuterol. Necrosis was immunohistochemically detected by administration of a myosin antibody 1 h before the clenbuterol challenge and quantified by using image analysis. clenbuterol-induced myocyte necrosis occurred against a background of zero damage in control muscles. In the heart, the clenbuterol-induced necrosis was not uniform, being more abundant in the left subendocardium and peaking 2.4 mm from the apex. After position (2.4 mm from the apex), dose (5 mg clenbuterol/kg), and sampling time (12 h) were optimized, maximum cardiomyocyte necrosis was found to be 1.0 +/- 0.2%. In response to the same parameters (i.e., 5 mg of clenbuterol and sampled at 12 h), skeletal myocyte necrosis was 4.4 +/- 0.8% in the soleus. These data show significant myocyte-specific necrosis in the heart and skeletal muscle of the rat. Such irreversible damage in the heart suggests that clenbuterol may be damaging to long-term health.

    PMID: 12381771 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]





    Characterization of adrenoceptor involvement in skeletal and cardiac myotoxicity Induced by sympathomimetic agents: toward a new bioassay for beta-blockers.

    Tan LB, Burniston JG, Clark WA, Ng Y, Goldspink DF.

    Academic Unit of Molecular Vascular Medicine, University of Leeds, England.

    Excessive levels of catecholamines have long been known to be cardiotoxic, but less well known are their toxic effects on skeletal muscle. By using an antimyosin monoclonal antibody and quantitative methods to measure the extent of myocyte necrosis, and by employing modulators of adrenoceptors (ARs), including clenbuterol, bupranolol, propranolol, bisoprolol, atenolol, ICI-118551, phenoxybenzamine, prazosin, and yohimbine, the involvement of ARs in isoproterenol-induced myotoxicity was characterized. In the myocardium, the toxic effects were predominantly mediated via the beta(1)-ARs. In the soleus muscle, it was almost solely via the beta(2)-ARs. Myotoxicity was also observed in the myocardium when challenged with the beta(2)-AR agonist clenbuterol. This was found to be mediated via sympathetic presynaptic beta(2)-ARs, leading to enhanced release of norepinephrine. This effect was abolished by prior treatment with reserpine. The skeletal muscle was found to be more sensitive to the myotoxic effects than cardiac muscle at lower doses of beta-AR agonists. These experiments introduce a new way of assaying beta-AR antagonists by classifying them according to their ability to prevent catecholamine-induced myotoxicity. Further research along these lines may deepen understanding of which beta-blockers work best in heart failure therapy.

    PMID: 12658052 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]






    Dose-dependent separation of the hypertrophic and myotoxic effects of the beta(2)-adrenergic receptor agonist clenbuterol in rat striated muscles.

    Burniston JG, Clark WA, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.

    Research Institute for Sport & Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Webster Street, Liverpool L3 2ET, UK.

    Muscle growth in response to large doses (milligrams per kilogram) of beta(2)-adrenergic receptor agonists has been reported consistently. However, such doses may also induce myocyte death in the heart and skeletal muscles and hence may not be safe doses for humans. We report the hypertrophic and myotoxic effects of different doses of clenbuterol. Rats were infused with clenbuterol (range, 1 mug to 1 mg.kg(-1)) for 14 days. Muscle protein content, myofiber cross-sectional area, and myocyte death were then investigated. Infusions of >/=10 mug.kg(-1).d(-1) of clenbuterol significantly (P < 0.05) increased the protein content of the heart (12%-15%), soleus (12%), plantaris (18%-29%), and tibialis anterior (11%-22%) muscles, with concomitant myofiber hypertrophy. Larger doses (100 mug or 1 mg) induced significant (P < 0.05) myocyte death in the soleus (peak 0.2 +/- 0.1% apoptosis), diaphragm (peak 0.15 +/- 0.1% apoptosis), and plantaris (peak 0.3 +/- 0.05% necrosis), and significantly increased the area fraction of collagen in the myocardium. These data show that the low dose of 10 mug.kg(-1).d(-1) can be used in rats to investigate the anabolic effects of clenbuterol in the absence of myocyte death. Muscle Nerve, 2006.
    "without your word you're a shell of a man" - Tupac

    ***Giants11 is a fictional character any advice given is purely for entertainment purposes, always consult a physician before taking any supplements, drugs or changing your diet.***

  4. #44
    perfectbeast2001's Avatar
    perfectbeast2001 is offline "king of free stuff" / Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    7,979
    Thanks Giants. So in a nutshell for al the people who are not scientifically minded (like me)! There is a possibility that clen use can have long term adverse affects on cardiovascular health.
    Were all these studies done on rats? How would the dosages used on the rats compare to human dosages?

  5. #45
    vermin's Avatar
    vermin is offline Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    811
    Forgetting the rat<>human thing, I think that most humans woudl use clen at about the 100mcg level.

  6. #46
    Giants11's Avatar
    Giants11 is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    5,714
    The highlighted part up top:

    These data show that the low dose of 10 mug.kg(-1).d(-1) can be used in rats to investigate the anabolic effects of clenbuterol in the absence of myocyte death

    Shows that it can cause heart cell death at 10mcg per Kg.

    Which would be about a 100mcg dose for a human.

    Granted this is not set in stone, it just a risk I personally will not take.
    "without your word you're a shell of a man" - Tupac

    ***Giants11 is a fictional character any advice given is purely for entertainment purposes, always consult a physician before taking any supplements, drugs or changing your diet.***

  7. #47
    helium3's Avatar
    helium3 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,634
    i would imagine that the effects are not perminent.

  8. #48
    1819's Avatar
    1819 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    fla,ny,nj
    Posts
    1,515
    Quote Originally Posted by 1819
    great post although running benadryl during the 3rd week would require you to start taking it on the 15th day not 21st, correct? thats the way i run it anyway.
    bumpin my question.

  9. #49
    Giants11's Avatar
    Giants11 is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    5,714
    Quote Originally Posted by helium3
    i would imagine that the effects are not perminent.
    Myocyte Death would be permanent.
    "without your word you're a shell of a man" - Tupac

    ***Giants11 is a fictional character any advice given is purely for entertainment purposes, always consult a physician before taking any supplements, drugs or changing your diet.***

  10. #50
    Swifto's Avatar
    Swifto is offline Banned- Scammer!
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Anywhere...
    Posts
    15,725
    Good stuff. Well done.

  11. #51
    perfectbeast2001's Avatar
    perfectbeast2001 is offline "king of free stuff" / Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    7,979
    thanks again giants that definately gives us food for thought.

  12. #52
    vermin's Avatar
    vermin is offline Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    811
    Quote Originally Posted by Giants11
    These data show that the low dose of 10 mug.kg(-1).d(-1) can be used in rats to investigate the anabolic effects of clenbuterol in the absence of myocyte death

    Shows that it can cause heart cell death at 10mcg per Kg.

    Which would be about a 100mcg dose for a human.
    Only if the human weighed 10kg (22 pounds). And you have the results backwards, the 10mcg dose is the safe one - "anabolic effects of clenbuterol in the absence of myocyte death".

    I muffed my math above (thought humans took mg, not mcg doses). For our legendary example of the 100kg (220 pound) human that "safe" dose would be 10*100, or 1000mcg, about 10X what most take, or in other words the usual 100mcg for the 100kg human would be a dose of 1mcg/kg - 1/10th the "safe" dose.

    Of course, that is "safe" in rats.

    But if you figure that their "low" dose was 10X what we take, and the next dose was 10X that, or 100X what we take...as long as I watch my BP I am not really so afraid.

    Can you imagine taking 100X the usual dose of clen a day for two weeks?

  13. #53
    BGIZZLE8629's Avatar
    BGIZZLE8629 is offline Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Work,School,Gym
    Posts
    620
    great post beast. It should be a sticky. I have a question though....
    Somebody told me that In His Opinion " people with high B/F should not use Clenbuterol . Obviously you do not feel the same way right? I am 20yrs, 220lbs, 16-19% B/F.

    I have done only (1) other cycle of Tren and Winny (but I believe that both of those compounds were seriously underdosed and I did not see any results after about 6 wks and I discontinued use.

    Soon (within the next couple of months) I plan on doing another cycle (real AAS this time: MNFG is B****sh D****n)

    Cycle:
    TEST CYPIONATE - 400mgs/wk for 10wks
    PROVIRON - 25mgs/ed for 10wks
    Nolvadex - 10mg/ed for 10wks (and 18 days before PCT)

    PCT:
    Clomid- 300/day 1
    100mg/ed for days 2-11
    50mg/ed for days 12-25
    Nolvadex- 10mg/ed for 20-30 days(about 40-45 days in all after last inj.)

    Seem like a good cycle? I am trying to inform you as much as possible so you can help me.
    I believe that you said that you had used Clen while you were using AAS in order to retain muscle. Would that be a good idea for me being that this is only my 2nd cycle (1st real cycle)??? should I maybe use the Clen before I even start using my AAS cycle ?? Or should I include it into my PCT somehow??? Should I try cutting with Clen/Winstrol /EQ/Primobolan ect.... before I even think about taking TEST????

    My first priority is dropping B/F! Another person told me that I shouldn't even use AAS until I get my B/F into single digits b/c of aromatization possibilities which I think is absurd. What is your opinion on that??

    Any advice/suggestions/opinions you can provide me will be much appreciated. I am kind of lost here on what i should do or what my options would be. Thanks beast.

  14. #54
    perfectbeast2001's Avatar
    perfectbeast2001 is offline "king of free stuff" / Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    7,979
    Well I cant see any problem with using clen with high BF. The important thing is that you have got your diet spot on and lost a substantial ammount of fat with it before resorting to drugs. Diet and cardio are THE most useful tools we have in the fight against flab. Only when results start to decline as the body becomes accustomed to the cardio and lack of cals would i suggest adding clen.
    I have used clen during a cutting cycle and I am currently using it for PCT. I found both to be effective.
    At 20yrs old i would not reccomend you use AS at all. You should be able to make the most of your natural test levels and make some great muscle gains without drugs at your age. If you are looking to cut up then AS is not going to help you. Sort out your diet and training and then maybe look at clen or ECA/Y. Good luck

  15. #55
    BGIZZLE8629's Avatar
    BGIZZLE8629 is offline Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Work,School,Gym
    Posts
    620
    Quote Originally Posted by perfectbeast2001
    Well I cant see any problem with using clen with high BF. The important thing is that you have got your diet spot on and lost a substantial ammount of fat with it before resorting to drugs. Diet and cardio are THE most useful tools we have in the fight against flab. Only when results start to decline as the body becomes accustomed to the cardio and lack of cals would i suggest adding clen.
    I have used clen during a cutting cycle and I am currently using it for PCT. I found both to be effective.
    At 20yrs old i would not reccomend you use AS at all. You should be able to make the most of your natural test levels and make some great muscle gains without drugs at your age. If you are looking to cut up then AS is not going to help you. Sort out your diet and training and then maybe look at clen or ECA/Y. Good luck
    I am working on my diet which isnt bad but how long from now should I only rely on diet and cardio before I start clen???? A couple months/years?? Also, I seem to be having a rather difficult time building and putting on muscle. I don't know if my test levels are low or what..... I heard that BloodWork for test levels and lipids and thyroid ect.... Was like $500. WTF is up with that price. Thanks for the info.
    Last edited by BGIZZLE8629; 11-07-2006 at 06:47 PM.

  16. #56
    BGIZZLE8629's Avatar
    BGIZZLE8629 is offline Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Work,School,Gym
    Posts
    620
    Oh, and what is ECA?? Is that like Hydroxycut or something?

  17. #57
    saffro is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    T.O
    Posts
    10
    FINALLY a breakdown of clen and how to use it, with no scientific vocab. Thanks alot, much appreciated

  18. #58
    SS1476's Avatar
    SS1476 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    EAST COAST
    Posts
    1,734
    Ephedra
    Caffeine
    Aspirin

  19. #59
    Giants11's Avatar
    Giants11 is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    5,714
    Quote Originally Posted by vermin
    Only if the human weighed 10kg (22 pounds). And you have the results backwards, the 10mcg dose is the safe one - "anabolic effects of clenbuterol in the absence of myocyte death".

    I muffed my math above (thought humans took mg, not mcg doses). For our legendary example of the 100kg (220 pound) human that "safe" dose would be 10*100, or 1000mcg, about 10X what most take, or in other words the usual 100mcg for the 100kg human would be a dose of 1mcg/kg - 1/10th the "safe" dose.

    Of course, that is "safe" in rats.

    But if you figure that their "low" dose was 10X what we take, and the next dose was 10X that, or 100X what we take...as long as I watch my BP I am not really so afraid.

    Can you imagine taking 100X the usual dose of clen a day for two weeks?

    Yup you are right....

    My head was in the clouds yesterday, here is the study that shows heart cell death at low doses:

    clenbuterol and apoptosis


    J Appl Physiol. 2004 Dec 10; [Epub ahead of print] Related Articles, Links


    {beta}2-Adrenergic receptor stimulation in vivo induces apoptosis in the rat heart and soleus muscle.

    Burniston JG, Tan LB, Goldspink DF.

    Research Institute for Sports and Exercise Sciences, Liverpool John Moores University, Liverpool, United Kingdom.

    High doses of the beta2-adrenergic receptor (AR) agonist, clenbuterol, can induce necrotic myocyte death in the heart and slow-twitch skeletal muscle of the rat. However, it is not known if this agent can also induce myocyte apoptosis and whether this would occur at a lower dose than previously reported for myocyte necrosis. Male Wistar rats were given single subcutaneous injections of clenbuterol. Immunohistochemistry was used to detect myocyte specific apoptosis (detected on cryosections using a caspase 3 antibody and confirmed using annexin V, single-strand DNA labelling and TUNEL). Myocyte apoptosis was first detected at 2 h, and peaked 4 h after clenbuterol administration. The lowest dose of clenbuterol to induce cardiomyocyte apoptosis was 1 microg kg(-1), with peak apoptosis (0.35 +/- 0.005 %; P<0.05) occurring in response to 5 mg kg(-1). In the soleus, peak apoptosis (5.8 +/- 2 %; P<0.05) was induced by the lower dose of 10 microg kg(-1). Cardiomyocyte apoptosis occurred throughout the ventricles, atria and papillary muscles. However, this damage was most abundant in the left ventricular subendocardium at a point 1.6 mm, that is, approximately one-quarter of the way from the apex towards the base. beta-AR antagonism (involving propranolol, bisoprolol or ICI 118,551) or reserpine was used to show that clenbuterol-induced myocardial apoptosis was mediated through neuromodulation of the sympathetic system and the cardiomyocyte beta1-AR, whereas in the soleus direct stimulation of the myocyte beta2-AR was involved. These data show that when administered in vivo, beta2-AR stimulation by clenbuterol is detrimental to cardiac and skeletal muscles even at low doses, by inducing apoptosis through beta1- and beta2-AR, respectively.
    "without your word you're a shell of a man" - Tupac

    ***Giants11 is a fictional character any advice given is purely for entertainment purposes, always consult a physician before taking any supplements, drugs or changing your diet.***

  20. #60
    goose is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    England...
    Posts
    2,832
    Good posts gaints.I have said this before and will say it again....DNP in male use is safer than clen .Doing a few clen cycles is ok,it`s the regular use that concerns me.Let`s look at DNP:

    DNP does not cause liver damage: "Their analyses demonstrate, beyond a doubt, that the liver does not suffer any damage in the course of dinitro treatment." (Biological Study of Dinitro Drugs in Humans By Dr. Jacques Bell. Bell, Jacques. 1939. Etude biologique des produits dinitres chez l'homme. Medecine. 19:749-54. Translation &#169; 1996 Robert Ames)

    Also: "Experimental studies on animals do not show toxic effects of dinitrophenol on the kidney. Anatomical-pathological examinations of animals, even those which died from a massive dose of dinitrophenol, do not reveal any important anatomical changes, except a small degree of cytolysis. Clinical documents are not abundant, but, on the whole, do not seem to demonstrate that dinitrophenol is toxic for the kidneys."

    "Dinitrophenol has almost no action on the blood cholesterol. (Grant and Schube)."

    "it doesn't seem that dinitrophenol at usual clinical doses is likely to harm the kidneys."

    "Dinitrophenol is remarkable for its absence of effect on the cardio-vascular system...dinitrophenol is absolutely devoid of toxicity for the heart."

    "Dinitrophenol does not attack cell tissue albumin and does not determine the fat loss to the expense of the muscles, contrary to thyroxine."

    "dinitrophenol offers this precious advantage that the cessation of its use at the slightest appearance of signs indicating an imminence of intoxication results immediately in the arrest of those symptoms." (Professor Pouchet)."


    Interestingly, one medical theory on a health ADVANTAGE of DNP is that the slight increase in thermogenic temperature simulates the fever a body induces during a viral attack. The body increases itsheat to protect organs but kill viruses, and some theorize that DNP can do the same thing, thus killing viruses in the body. In this mechanism, DNP may have an immune-enhancing effect.

    I do not Advocate the use of DNP but clen is not as mild as people think.

  21. #61
    helium3's Avatar
    helium3 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,634
    Quote Originally Posted by goose4
    Good posts gaints.I have said this before and will say it again....DNP in male use is safer than clen .Doing a few clen cycles is ok,it`s the regular use that concerns me.Let`s look at DNP:

    DNP does not cause liver damage: "Their analyses demonstrate, beyond a doubt, that the liver does not suffer any damage in the course of dinitro treatment." (Biological Study of Dinitro Drugs in Humans By Dr. Jacques Bell. Bell, Jacques. 1939. Etude biologique des produits dinitres chez l'homme. Medecine. 19:749-54. Translation © 1996 Robert Ames)

    Also: "Experimental studies on animals do not show toxic effects of dinitrophenol on the kidney. Anatomical-pathological examinations of animals, even those which died from a massive dose of dinitrophenol, do not reveal any important anatomical changes, except a small degree of cytolysis. Clinical documents are not abundant, but, on the whole, do not seem to demonstrate that dinitrophenol is toxic for the kidneys."

    "Dinitrophenol has almost no action on the blood cholesterol. (Grant and Schube)."

    "it doesn't seem that dinitrophenol at usual clinical doses is likely to harm the kidneys."

    "Dinitrophenol is remarkable for its absence of effect on the cardio-vascular system...dinitrophenol is absolutely devoid of toxicity for the heart."

    "Dinitrophenol does not attack cell tissue albumin and does not determine the fat loss to the expense of the muscles, contrary to thyroxine."

    "dinitrophenol offers this precious advantage that the cessation of its use at the slightest appearance of signs indicating an imminence of intoxication results immediately in the arrest of those symptoms." (Professor Pouchet)."


    Interestingly, one medical theory on a health ADVANTAGE of DNP is that the slight increase in thermogenic temperature simulates the fever a body induces during a viral attack. The body increases itsheat to protect organs but kill viruses, and some theorize that DNP can do the same thing, thus killing viruses in the body. In this mechanism, DNP may have an immune-enhancing effect.

    I do not Advocate the use of DNP but clen is not as mild as people think.

    i just dont like dnp,maybe i need to read more,but from some stories ive read,id be better off putting my internal organs in the microwave.

  22. #62
    Giants11's Avatar
    Giants11 is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    5,714
    Quote Originally Posted by helium3
    i just dont like dnp,maybe i need to read more,but from some stories ive read,id be better off putting my internal organs in the microwave.

    Those are jsut horrow stories and not the facts.

    Goose, excellent post. And I agree as well.
    "without your word you're a shell of a man" - Tupac

    ***Giants11 is a fictional character any advice given is purely for entertainment purposes, always consult a physician before taking any supplements, drugs or changing your diet.***

  23. #63
    SS1476's Avatar
    SS1476 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    EAST COAST
    Posts
    1,734
    Excellent info Shockey (Giants11)
    You as well goose4,thank you.

    BTW...GO BIG BLUE!!
    Bring on those Bears

  24. #64
    Giants11's Avatar
    Giants11 is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    5,714
    Quote Originally Posted by SS1476
    Excellent info Shockey (Giants11)
    You as well goose4,thank you.

    BTW...GO BIG BLUE!!
    Bring on those Bears

    LOL, too many damn injuries......
    "without your word you're a shell of a man" - Tupac

    ***Giants11 is a fictional character any advice given is purely for entertainment purposes, always consult a physician before taking any supplements, drugs or changing your diet.***

  25. #65
    vermin's Avatar
    vermin is offline Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    811
    Thanks for the update Giants - of course this does not explain the two studies with different results. The "good" news is I am finishing my first ever 2 weeks on clen and have realized no real results (the usual sides, just none of the benefits) and had been considering DNP . This info helps make up my mind....

  26. #66
    SS1476's Avatar
    SS1476 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    EAST COAST
    Posts
    1,734
    Quote Originally Posted by Giants11
    LOL, too many damn injuries......
    I dont want to think about that...
    We need a great year for Tiki.I hope
    Strahan is well for this weekend.

    sorry not football fans,we love our BLUE

  27. #67
    perfectbeast2001's Avatar
    perfectbeast2001 is offline "king of free stuff" / Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    7,979
    I hate football, start your own thread!

  28. #68
    BGIZZLE8629's Avatar
    BGIZZLE8629 is offline Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Work,School,Gym
    Posts
    620
    Quote Originally Posted by SS1476
    Ephedra
    Caffeine
    Aspirin
    Ok, is that better than Hydroxycut?????

  29. #69
    Giants11's Avatar
    Giants11 is offline AR-Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    5,714
    Quote Originally Posted by perfectbeast2001
    I hate football, start your own thread!
    Good point my bad.

    Back to clen .

    read Anthony Robert article on Albuterol, IMO its much safter due to the shorter half life and has something that Clen does not.

    Human studies proving it effectiveness.
    "without your word you're a shell of a man" - Tupac

    ***Giants11 is a fictional character any advice given is purely for entertainment purposes, always consult a physician before taking any supplements, drugs or changing your diet.***

  30. #70
    perfectbeast2001's Avatar
    perfectbeast2001 is offline "king of free stuff" / Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    7,979
    Yes albuterol looks like it could be the "new" clen . I will try it as soon as i can get my hands on it.

  31. #71
    pr0digalsun's Avatar
    pr0digalsun is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    249
    Thanks man, nice post. I just taken clen this week.

  32. #72
    Jay-Ace's Avatar
    Jay-Ace is offline Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    641
    One other thing to consider however is that is has been said that humans have a lower density of Beta-Receptors than animals in any given tissue sample.

    I see in the myotoxic text above that the apoptosis is thought to be related to the neuro & sympathetic systems, surely this would mean that with humans having a lower density than animals the toxicity would be less at any given dose?!?!

  33. #73
    Timm1704's Avatar
    Timm1704 is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    ninja dojo, UK
    Posts
    4,082
    cracking post! my only question is this: what are your opinions on the 2 day on 2 day off method?

  34. #74
    Jay-Ace's Avatar
    Jay-Ace is offline Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    641
    Quote Originally Posted by Timm1704
    cracking post! my only question is this: what are your opinions on the 2 day on 2 day off method?
    You beta-2 receptors won't up regulate sufficiently in the the 2 day off period!!

    Clenbuterol takes ~36 hours to "get through" your system, so in theory the 2 on/2 off method would only give you around 12 hours of clenbuterol free time, not enough for the receptors to up-regulate naturally.

    The answer would be to enhance this up-regulation with the diphenhydramine or similar.

    The article in the profiles section is very good!!

    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=199822

  35. #75
    perfectbeast2001's Avatar
    perfectbeast2001 is offline "king of free stuff" / Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    7,979
    I would agree with jay, due to clens long half life I don't see how such a short off time could be as effective as either upregulation via anti histamines or from prolonged off time (2 weeks for example)

  36. #76
    Timm1704's Avatar
    Timm1704 is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    ninja dojo, UK
    Posts
    4,082
    cheers guys, i will go with the 2 week method then

  37. #77
    Jay-Ace's Avatar
    Jay-Ace is offline Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    641
    Quote Originally Posted by Timm1704
    cheers guys, i will go with the 2 week method then

    What are your main goals??


    Clenbuterol does exhibit some anabolic type properties, and it works very well to "reproportion" you, that is decrease Fat whilst either increasing or at least maintaining Muscle.

    To gain the later effects though you would need to be looking at a course which runs for longer than 2 weeks, maybe 10-12 weeks with appropriate upregulation.

  38. #78
    lanky's Avatar
    lanky is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    160
    very informative post

    looks like u did ur homework

  39. #79
    Timm1704's Avatar
    Timm1704 is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    ninja dojo, UK
    Posts
    4,082
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay-Ace
    What are your main goals??


    Clenbuterol does exhibit some anabolic type properties, and it works very well to "reproportion" you, that is decrease Fat whilst either increasing or at least maintaining Muscle.

    To gain the later effects though you would need to be looking at a course which runs for longer than 2 weeks, maybe 10-12 weeks with appropriate upregulation.
    i am using clen for its anti catabolic properties whilst cutting. will be using masteron with it also

  40. #80
    perfectbeast2001's Avatar
    perfectbeast2001 is offline "king of free stuff" / Retired
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    7,979
    will you be running any test too? If you are I'd save the clen for PCT and just diet hard while on the test/mast. If you just running it with the masteron then should be cool, Id dose it with benadryl so you can stay on for 8+ weeks and make use of clens anabolic /anti catabolic action.

Page 2 of 18 FirstFirst 123456712 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •