Cardio on an empty stomach???

[kuad]

interesting......

[SPIKE]

Can I point out something? You guys speak of this stuff as though it happens instantaneously

Can you elaborate on "you guys" for us. Since we just hit 5 pages it would be nice to keep it going.

Thanks buddy..............

[WEBB]

welcome back jay....i am poting new pics fom tonigh tin my thread later so check em out...the cardio worked wonders and i am dialed in now, just need to fine tune my sodium and carb a bit and i will be spot on...


also i am going to get my o meg a 3, at the grocery store thursday...

[WEBB]

like i said before i will elaborate more now i have some time...i started this thread because i was worried about losing muscle while i was doing cardio on an empty stomach and though if i ate smoething first it would be better off....what a mistake that could have been....Jay got me on the right track, and i am down a total of 46 pounds of water and fat in 6 weeks, now it wasnt all Jay and his cardio, i am on a very strict low carb diet, but i kept my protien high and ran a dose of test to keep my muscles there...all i can say is he is with out a doubt 100% correct on cardio on an empty stomach...it is by far the best way to lose that excess fat....

Thanks again big fella...i win own the stage in 18 days and it is because of your cardio advice i will be dry and ripped...

[SPIKE]

Thanks again big fella...i win own the stage in 18 days and it is because of your cardio advice i will be dry and ripped...

I did nothing but recite what I have learned along the years. All through schooling, researching and personal experience I was able to give you whatever I thought was best. In the end you did all the work Webb.

Keep me in mind when you win this show. Pics are always appreciated buddy :-)

[WEBB]

i did do all the work, but i could have done the work wrong and not been where i am now.....wit hyour help i did what was right and got me on track and dialed in....

[IBdmfkr]

Now win that shit, you have no excuses now

[WEBB]

my thoughts exactly...it is mine to lose....and i wont lose...

[SPIKE]

...it is mine to lose....and i wont lose...

For some reason after I read that I heard the Rocky anthem in my mind. Dennnaaaannaaaa denanaaaaaaaaa de de denana dennanananaaa denaaaaaaaaaa

[svarturer]

Dont you feel like shit after your AM empty stomach cardio ?

[SPIKE]

Dont you feel like shit after your AM empty stomach cardio ?

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I guess this all depends.

If I had enough sleep and went to bed right after my Pro/Fat Shake, I tend to feel great during and after AM cardio. It's those mornings that I wake up being out all night where I may be dragging a bit throughout but never after. After my oats and breakfast I'm usually ready to take on the day.

[jstanier]

Dont you feel like shit after your AM empty stomach cardio ?

I always feel great - metabolism has risen and I'm ready to go.

[svarturer]

I tried this a couple of times always made me sick! I started eating oatmeal first thing in the morning......
Maybe i should try again....

Do you leave any time before eating after the cardio session ?

[Bigun]

The common practice is to avoid carbs for an hour or more post cardio session

[svarturer]

The common practice is to avoid carbs for an hour or more post cardio session

Do you eat pro/fat meal straight after your cardio ?

[theforce3169]

The common practice is to avoid carbs for an hour or more post cardio session

I've read somewhere on here that one of the most important times to eat is 15 minutes after you workout

I usually drink a protein/fat shake right after then eat about 2 hours later

[IBdmfkr]

I see no reason why complex carbs couldn't be injested after a morning cardio sesson. I'd probably just stick with my normal breakfast.
Eggs/whey, Oats, flax.

[WEBB]

after cardio i have a shake then after i get home 15minutes later i have 10 eggwhites or turkey, and 1/2-3/4 oats...that is the best way to go imo...i do not know why you would not want low GI complex carbs after...

[SPIKE]

...i do not know why you would not want low GI complex carbs after...

Me neither Webb, makes no sense to me at all.

Why wouldnt anyone want a readily available source of replenishment (carbs)rather then having to break down another Macro into the same form to get it?


Can anyone above give some reasons or state exactly what they read/heard? I"m always open to new suggestions with scientifc reasoning.

[chest6]

I've read somewhere on here that one of the most important times to eat is 15 minutes after you workout

I usually drink a protein/fat shake right after then eat about 2 hours later

we are talking about cardio here, not weights

[chest6]

Me neither Webb, makes no sense to me at all.

Why wouldnt anyone want a readily available source of replenishment (carbs)rather then having to break down another Macro into the same form to get it?


Can anyone above give some reasons or state exactly what they read/heard? I"m always open to new suggestions with scientifc reasoning.

Yeah me too? I would never ever have a pro/fat meal instead of a pro/carb after cardio. It just seems logical.

[SPIKE]

It just seems logical.

That's what I thought brotha................

[edgarr]

WOW great post. I am looking to lose about 2-3% BF over the next 10-12 weeks. I am starting to do cardio first thing in the am on an empty stomach 4-5 days a week and then eating a pro/carb meal about a half hour after. Then after my workout 2-3 days a week I will do 20-25 mins of low intensity cardio as well. My question is, my PWO shake always had gultamine and creatine in it along with whey and dex. Should I take the creatine and gultamine after my work out but before my cardion or is ok to take it all after both w/0 and cardion?

[novastepp]

ok just bumping this because i just read the entire thing and i have a few comments and a few questions that i can't type now because i have to get back to work. but i will be posting this evening and making this thread a whole lot longer.

[SPIKE]

Should I take the creatine and gultamine after my work out but before my cardion or is ok to take it all after both w/0 and cardion?

Just continue taking it with your PWO shake after your entire session is done. Do you cycle the creatine or use it all the time?

Feel free to post a new thread on this Edgar, that way it will free up some space on here allowing some to follow it easier. If you do that copy and paste the link here, I"ll check it out.

[SPIKE]

i will be posting this evening and making this thread a whole lot longer.

I'm ready

[edgarr]

Just continue taking it with your PWO shake after your entire session is done. Do you cycle the creatine or use it all the time?

Feel free to post a new thread on this Edgar, that way it will free up some space on here allowing some to follow it easier. If you do that copy and paste the link here, I"ll check it out.

I am taking creatine right now because I am just coming off a SD cycle and wanted to add it to my PCT. I usally cycle it just cause I feel my self getting bloated if I take it too long. Why what would you reccomend?

I may post a new log with my cutting progress somewhere here on this site.

[SPIKE]

I am taking creatine right now because I am just coming off a SD cycle and wanted to add it to my PCT. I usally cycle it just cause I feel my self getting bloated if I take it too long. Why what would you reccomend?

Exaclty what you're doing. From the way you worded it I was under the impression that you were taking it all the time rather then cycling it. Some hold more water then other on Creatine so the bloat will vary.

I may post a new log with my cutting progress somewhere here on this site.

Here's the link to where you'd post your progress:

http://forums.steroid.com/members-cycle-results/

[novastepp]

ok so after a day of shithouse work. i am back, and my questions arose while reading these 5 pages of pure knowledge.

1. i understand you have covered many aspects of CUTTING cardio. but what about bulking? after about 6 weeks of bulking, no matter how clean i keep it, my fat gains begin. now i would ASSume that cardio early morning would be best because when bulking you need nutrition ASAP after training. so would that eliminate PWO cardio as a fat burner/maintainer?

2. also, what about in regards to cortisol reducers? if you are using a cortisol reducer (not an anabolic ) would taking that before bed and then pre morning cardio help alleviate that rapid cortisol release many talked and worried about in the previous pages?

3. after cardio (be it am on empty, be it am after BCAA's or glutamine, or be it PWO) would a pro/fat meal REALLY NOt stop lipolysis and allow for further fat burn in normal activity proceeding that cardio? i am also assuming that we are talking about low/moderate cardio for a period of time and that no one will be running a sprint routine PWO or in the am with an empty tank.

4. and i do remember reading about nighttime nutrition being brought up a couple of times, but my specific question is... i know that fat intake (mainly healthy fats) can help begin lipolysis (fat being broken down and released into the bloodstream to be used as fuel)...SO would having a whey/flax shake mid sleep (whether cutting or bulking) help to make morning cardio more efficient? my logic says then....

1. prebed take a cortisol reducer and have a pro/fat meal...
2. then mid-night sleep, have a whey/flax shake...
3. upon waking take a cortisol reducer...(ECA making this even more efficient because of its anticatabolic properties and the further release of FFA's upon caffeine absorption...but we'll leave that to cutting...)
4. then post cardio to have a serving of BCAA's and a scoop of whey (they help start protein synthesis by themselves!)
5. 15-20 minutes later have a pro/fat meal to continue lipolysis and some potential fat burning in the next couple of hours before your next meal.

this is how i see it being most effective, but cuss, discuss and have at it...

-nOva

[SPIKE]

ok so after a day of shithouse work. i am back, and my questions arose while reading these 5 pages of pure knowledge. Let's do it brotha.........

1. i understand you have covered many aspects of CUTTING cardio. but what about bulking? after about 6 weeks of bulking, no matter how clean i keep it, my fat gains begin. now i would ASSume that cardio early morning would be best because when bulking you need nutrition ASAP after training. so would that eliminate PWO cardio as a fat burner/maintainer? "Bulking" is a loosely used term that we all play with. It can mean "put on as much weight as possible" and it could also mean "somewhat of a lean bulk and try to put on as much LBM with minimal fat." We will have to narrow it down before major steps can be taken. Since I"m ASSuming that you run more of a "clean bulk" I would vary the cardio depending on your lifestlye and goals. In order to not put on that fat you speak about 20min PWO and/or AM might suffice. It's more of a personalized answer to that one.

2. also, what about in regards to cortisol reducers? if you are using a cortisol reducer (not an anabolic ) would taking that before bed and then pre morning cardio help alleviate that rapid cortisol release many talked and worried about in the previous pages? Dam it!! I had some studies stating that 3g of Vit C prior to bedtime really helped with cortisol levels. This is tricky b/c to lower the levels you would need to eat something in the AM. Now if you plan on doing AM cardio then that can have a negative effect on LBM. This somewhat corralates to the previous question leading you more in the direction on PWO cardio rather then risking LBM in the AM.

3. after cardio (be it am on empty, be it am after BCAA's or glutamine, or be it PWO) would a pro/fat meal REALLY NOt stop lipolysis and allow for further fat burn in normal activity proceeding that cardio? i am also assuming that we are talking about low/moderate cardio for a period of time and that no one will be running a sprint routine PWO or in the am with an empty tank. So no carbs PWO after cardio? Is that what you're saying Nova? Strictly Pro/Fat?

4. and i do remember reading about nighttime nutrition being brought up a couple of times, but my specific question is... i know that fat intake (mainly healthy fats) can help begin lipolysis (fat being broken down and released into the bloodstream to be used as fuel)...SO would having a whey/flax shake mid sleep (whether cutting or bulking) help to make morning cardio more efficient? I try to avoid waking up mid sleep. I see so many talk about drinking shakes mid sleep but the last thing I'd want to do is interrupt REM sleep. I'd take the Flax/whey prior to bedtime and attmept to get in a full nights rest.

1. prebed take a cortisol reducer and have a pro/fat meal...
2. then mid-night sleep, have a whey/flax shake...
3. upon waking take a cortisol reducer...(ECA making this even more efficient because of its anticatabolic properties and the further release of FFA's upon caffeine absorption...but we'll leave that to cutting...)
4. then post cardio to have a serving of BCAA's and a scoop of whey (they help start protein synthesis by themselves!)
5. 15-20 minutes later have a pro/fat meal to continue lipolysis and some potential fat burning in the next couple of hours before your next meal.

this is how i see it being most effective, but cuss, discuss and have at it...

-nOva

Looks good to me Nova....

[novastepp]

1. & 2. so i do know that some LBM might be at risk when doing cardio in the am on empty. but that is risking LBM that is already present. do you think that PWO cardio might scrifice LBM gains? that is what i'm getting at. which is worse? risking losing some mass or losing some gains? and which payoff would be less of a shot to your presence. and yes clean bulk would be correct. but personally i am going to try to up my cals 1000+ over maint. and add cardio 4 days a week, to help with any fat gain that may occur.

3. yes i am talking pro/fat because of 2 reasons. carbs will blunt the lipolysis if i am correct, and fats allow for an increased release of FFA's so that would make sense to me.

4. i underdtand not wanting to lose sleep (which is the biggest factor in recover IMO), but again which is the bigger trade off? being fasted, or waking up mid sleep? IMO i would agree that while bulking or adding LBM, straight sleep would be very beneficial and should not be taken for granted. however, during a cutting phase, fasting can lead to extra LBM loss especially in an already lean state. so i might think that the fat would help release FFA's and prevent loss of LBM by fasting.

[spound]

1. & 2. so i do know that some LBM might be at risk when doing cardio in the am on empty. but that is risking LBM that is already present. do you think that PWO cardio might scrifice LBM gains? that is what i'm getting at. which is worse? risking losing some mass or losing some gains? and which payoff would be less of a shot to your presence. and yes clean bulk would be correct. but personally i am going to try to up my cals 1000+ over maint. and add cardio 4 days a week, to help with any fat gain that may occur.

3. yes i am talking pro/fat because of 2 reasons. carbs will blunt the lipolysis if i am correct, and fats allow for an increased release of FFA's so that would make sense to me.
4. i underdtand not wanting to lose sleep (which is the biggest factor in recover IMO), but again which is the bigger trade off? being fasted, or waking up mid sleep? IMO i would agree that while bulking or adding LBM, straight sleep would be very beneficial and should not be taken for granted. however, during a cutting phase, fasting can lead to extra LBM loss especially in an already lean state. so i might think that the fat would help release FFA's and prevent loss of LBM by fasting.

Dude....Nova....Post cardio lipolysis is HIGHLY overrated bro. Think about how fast your heartrate drops back down after cardio... Your body is constantly trying to stay at equilibrium, meaning that is does everything possible to get the body back to being that way after cardio as fast as possible. I dont have any studies backing this up, but I have PERSONAL EPXERIENCE, which IMO is most important. I have been eating carbs for breakfast (right after my am cardio ) and having my PWO shake (with carbs) right after my PWO cardio, and I have lost 40lbs and kept DAMN NEAR ALL MY STRENGTH. My diet has been perfect...I am 2wks out right now and almost dialed in. Take it for what it's worth, but you DEFINATELY need carbs after your PWO cardio.....ESPECIALLY WHILE BULKIND (trying to put on muscle).
PERIOD

[SPIKE]

1. & 2. so i do know that some LBM might be at risk when doing cardio in the am on empty. but that is risking LBM that is already present. do you think that PWO cardio might scrifice LBM gains? that is what i'm getting at. which is worse? risking losing some mass or losing some gains? and which payoff would be less of a shot to your presence. and yes clean bulk would be correct. but personally i am going to try to up my cals 1000+ over maint. and add cardio 4 days a week, to help with any fat gain that may occur. Can never be too positive on this one but depending on the intensity of your training PWO may sacrifice a bit more. I cant see a definitve answer to that one as both studies and personal runs (not to mention tons of Trial and error with clients). But the thing with AM is that cortisol levels will be high (we're trying to take care of that) but on the bright side you'll be tapping almost immediately into fat stores from the get go. With PWO it will depend on how hard you trained but for the most part your glucose stores will be tapped and onto fat-----we hope.

Sorry but I cant give a definite on this one. I'vehad too many mixed results with other people and cant give a definite. It's one of those plug and play moves.

3. yes i am talking pro/fat because of 2 reasons. carbs will blunt the lipolysis if i am correct, and fats allow for an increased release of FFA's so that would make sense to me. Ahh yes this has been covered a ton of times in the diet forum. We've both seen it over and over. Kind of touches on the "You need fat to burn fat" saying. Some prefer to go Pro/Fat for the reasons mentioned. I have tried that and had a very difficult time retaining LBM. I really felt that without the carbs PWO my muscles were still deprived and needed and immediate source of Fuel (Carbs).

This gets tricky b/c only adding 1000kcals over maintenance is going to be difficult to put on a lot of size. I"m not exactly sure how much you're looking to put on but those extra 1000kcal may go dam fast if you're training really hard, which I"m sure you are Nova.

4. i underdtand not wanting to lose sleep (which is the biggest factor in recover IMO), but again which is the bigger trade off? being fasted, or waking up mid sleep? IMO i would agree that while bulking or adding LBM, straight sleep would be very beneficial and should not be taken for granted. however, during a cutting phase, fasting can lead to extra LBM loss especially in an already lean state. so i might think that the fat would help release FFA's and prevent loss of LBM by fasting.

If concentrating on bulking I'd really try to get a full nights sleep. Adding the shake mid sleep can help in the fasted state expecially when performing AM cardio and what not, but you have to weigh out your options. If you're bulking then you're pretty much hitting it dam hard and trying to fatigue your muscles as much as possible. Consuming a bedtime shake can be enough to keep the busy throughout the night (depends on shake).





See you know what it is here Nova, there are too many personal decisions here. As stated above I've seen tremendous results for some with a regimen and others fail with the same exact regimen. Trial and error is something we have to do in this lifestlye we live. Obviously the more concrete answers we have can help but what works for me may do nothing for you.

I like the way you think, but sometimes I think so hard that it confuses me. If there's one thing I've learned from going to school so much. It's not that the more you go to school the more you know, its the more you go to school the more you realize you dont know. I read studies all the time that will contridict a previous study, it's an ongoing battle. I know thats not what you're looking for but thats the best I could do, sorry.

I tried throughout the previous 5 pages to give as much as I knew and to what would work and why. At least from my perspective..................

[novastepp]

Jayhova, you are a river of knowledge man, always flowin'. i appreciate your commensta dn i wasn't asking you for answerts i was just sking rhetorically for debate. i always have carbs after cardio, but i was just stating what i think would be sensable, but doesn't necessarily work for me. Spound you're in there too, i agree that post cardio lipolysis is overrated as well. now when i bulk i will be experimenting with what i feel works for me. 4 weeks just about 500 cals over 4 weeks of 1,000 cals over. and so on. justmixing things up and judging energy levels, recovery time and on and on. because i'm new to the game... i don't really have a set in stone way that works for me yet, because i haven't tried many concepts. i too read and read about things and one thing will contradict another and i feel like sometimes when i even slightly combine macros i am going to put on fat because i think "wait, isn't this bad" and i then assume a placebo effect will take place... it sucks.

in any case, i love to debate about things and learning is a wonderful hobby. one which i hope to be involved with my entire life.

"the greatest knowledge is knowing that you know nothing" -Socrates (thank you Giants11)

[Random]

Ok guys heres some more discussion: At what point does cardio become detrimental? For example, currently i take 10 grams of aminos before i do my morning cardio...now i have no knowledge on the absorption rate of those and how long they keep amino blood levels stable, what kind of a window do i have assuming im doing moderate intensity cardio before it would start breaking down muscle tissue? Im currently doin 60 minutes in the morning, empty stomach.....

[SPIKE]

i was just sking rhetorically for debate.

in any case, i love to debate about things and learning is a wonderful hobby.

Too many people corrolate debate and argue as similar terms. If we could all have some friendly debates every once in a while I"m sure they would produce some real eye openers. We're all trying to learn here Nova Nova.........

[SPIKE]

At what point does cardio become detrimental?

Detrimental as far as LBM loss? That cant be answred, it will vary upon the individual. We could although set some guidelines as far as how duration/type/intensity will have a negative effect on LBM. Combine that with diet and you can conclude some numbers to play with.

i take 10 grams of aminos before i do my morning cardio

BCAA's or Aminos?

[Random]

BCAA's....

[SPIKE]

BCAA's....

[IBdmfkr]

Should BCAA's be taken again after AM cardio with the first meal IYO?


Btw, I have the BCAA mixture 2:1:1 from Trueprotein and find it utterly disgusting to take by itself, lol... Any suggestions?