Is ice-cream appropriate

**S431M7** · 01-13-2007, 01:01 PM

hey fellows I ve got some quick silly question and would not mind your compliment:

I was wondering if ice-cream is good for bulking (diet)? Yes or No? I know for a fact a lot of ice-cream lovers are way fat, I mean way fat. It must be the ice-cream. But when you thinking of bulking, ice-cream is one of the easiet unhealthy avenue to get there if u will. Sound to bad when I said unhealthy, right? But what about a cup of ice-cream once or twice week, is that too bad for someone who wants to bulk quick in addition to eating a lot of meat, bread, potatoes, catfish, chicken, salad, oatmeat, rice, protein shake, etc etc?

Before u ask me to move this post to the diet forum, think of this topic as bulking question.

**Snrf** · 01-13-2007, 01:03 PM

depends how lean you wanna keep your bulk

**Hellmaskbanned** · 01-13-2007, 01:05 PM

Sounds like the term "Bulk" to you means to get fat as hell as quick as possible.

***G-1000*** · 01-13-2007, 01:11 PM

Ice cream is made from mike that is made from cows.

So we give cows hormones to grow faster and make more milk quicker.

There for when you eat ice cream you are getting some of the hormones from the cow. In hand you will grow quicker.

**S431M7** · 01-13-2007, 01:17 PM

Not really, Hellmaks, but thanks 4 correcting the unsaid if that's what u thought.

Originally Posted by Hellmask

Sounds like the term "Bulk" to you means to get fat as hell as quick as possible.

Gsxxr, I'm guessing u being ironic though your compliments are factual. Thanks 4 the input.

Damn, u got some turn-on avater, Gsxxr

Originally Posted by Gsxxr

Ice cream is made from mike that is made from cows.

So we give cows hormones to grow faster and make more milk quicker.

There for when you eat ice cream you are getting some of the hormones from the cow. In hand you will grow quicker.

***G-1000*** · 01-13-2007, 01:23 PM

Any thing from a cow is good. If you can get some cow sperm dam. That shit is loaded with test.

Bro im just haveing some fun

Ice cream is so bad for you. Is loaded with fat's and suger.

**S431M7** · 01-13-2007, 01:30 PM

I knew u were messing not with my mind but with my intelligence, do u know what's the difference? LOL
Just having fun with u too?

***Narkissos*** · 01-13-2007, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by S431M7

hey fellows I ve got some quick silly question and would not mind your compliment:

I was wondering if ice-cream is good for bulking (diet)? Yes or No? I know for a fact a lot of ice-cream lovers are way fat, I mean way fat. It must be the ice-cream. But when you thinking of bulking, ice-cream is one of the easiet unhealthy avenue to get there if u will. Sound to bad when I said unhealthy, right? But what about a cup of ice-cream once or twice week, is that too bad for someone who wants to bulk quick in addition to eating a lot of meat, bread, potatoes, catfish, chicken, salad, oatmeat, rice, protein shake, etc etc?

Before u ask me to move this post to the diet forum, think of this topic as bulking question.

Precisely...

Moving this thread to the diet forum.

**zodiac666** · 01-13-2007, 01:47 PM

depends on how fast your metabolism is on whether you will get fat or not but really there are much better foods you could be eating to gain weight. ice cream ranks right up there with french fries and potatoe chips as a completely worthless food IMO.

***Narkissos*** · 01-13-2007, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by zodiac666

depends on how fast your metabolism is on whether you will get fat or not but really there are much better foods you could be eating to gain weight. ice cream ranks right up there with french fries and potatoe chips as a completely worthless food IMO.

agreed...

**Diablo10000** · 01-13-2007, 02:15 PM

dont eat it

**big L 17** · 01-13-2007, 02:57 PM

eat it if u want to get fat

**Tru2** · 01-13-2007, 07:56 PM

eat anything. doesn't really matter as long as you get your calories/macros in. The only thing you should keep in mind is cleaner food is going to give you more satiety due it being less calorie dense. other than that.. consider the simple rule of calories in calories out. basic laws of thermodynamics.

**zodiac666** · 01-13-2007, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by Tru2

eat anything. doesn't really matter as long as you get your calories/macros in. The only thing you should keep in mind is cleaner food is going to give you more satiety due it being less calorie dense. other than that.. consider the simple rule of calories in calories out. basic laws of thermodynamics.

are you saying that you shouldnt worry about whether you're eating protein, carbs or fats? so if your target calories are 2000 you should just make sure you get 2000 calories, and it doesnt matter where the calories come from?

**Tru2** · 01-14-2007, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by zodiac666

are you saying that you shouldnt worry about whether you're eating protein, carbs or fats? so if your target calories are 2000 you should just make sure you get 2000 calories, and it doesnt matter where the calories come from?

Originally Posted by Tru2
eat anything. doesn't really matter as long as you get your calories/macros in. The only thing you should keep in mind is cleaner food is going to give you more satiety due it being less calorie dense. other than that.. consider the simple rule of calories in calories out. basic laws of thermodynamics.

read what I wrote again sparky.

**zodiac666** · 01-14-2007, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by Tru2

read what I wrote again sparky.

ok, i thought you might be a steve torino fan

it was just the way you worded it "The only thing you should keep in mind is cleaner food is going to give you more satiety due it being less calorie dense. other than that.. consider the simple rule of calories in calories out" calories in calories out is true but it is way oversimplifying the subject. there are many benefits of eating cleaner food as opposed to just any calories, health of course being #1. even if you are hitting your target macros you should always pay attention to what food sources you use.

**MarkyMark** · 01-14-2007, 01:21 PM

I was confused.... Is this the Jenny Craig forum .. or is a Bodybuilder want to bulk with ice cream...? Sounds like you may wanna train Sumo while your at it....

**Tru2** · 01-14-2007, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by zodiac666

ok, i thought you might be a steve torino fan

it was just the way you worded it "The only thing you should keep in mind is cleaner food is going to give you more satiety due it being less calorie dense. other than that.. consider the simple rule of calories in calories out" calories in calories out is true but it is way oversimplifying the subject. there are many benefits of eating cleaner food as opposed to just any calories, health of course being #1. even if you are hitting your target macros you should always pay attention to what food sources you use.

I have no idea who Steve Torino is.

I do tend to choose my foods from cleaner sources for the most part of my diet, however, if I can't be bothered or whatever one day or another I'm not going to panic at all. So in your opinion other than health, what reasons do you believe there are, where we should ensure we pay attention to what food sources we use? What difference is it going to make other than those already mentioned, where our carbs/protein and fats come from.

**zodiac666** · 01-14-2007, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Tru2

I have no idea who Steve Torino is.

I do tend to choose my foods from cleaner sources for the most part of my diet, however, if I can't be bothered or whatever one day or another I'm not going to panic at all. So in your opinion other than health, what reasons do you believe there are, where we should ensure we pay attention to what food sources we use? What difference is it going to make other than those already mentioned, where our carbs/protein and fats come from.

well other than health which i consider pretty important there is results. if your main source of protein is whey (which is absorbed very quickly) you are not going to have a constant supply of amino acids in your blood stream which will obviously hinder your muscular gains. and of course if your main source of carbs is white bread and gummi bears which are also processed very quickly, your insulin levels are going to be spiking and dropping all day long which is going to be detrimintal to your training as well as your everyday life.

are you saying that if my morning meal says to have 40g protein and 60g carbs i could just have a whey shake and a large mountain dew?

the source of your macros as well as the times of day you eat are very important

**zodiac666** · 01-14-2007, 02:33 PM

i present you with steve torano...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bgd0...elated&search=

love your body, lol

***perfectbeast2001*** · 01-14-2007, 02:45 PM

If you used up your cals with junk instead of clean you would not be eating many meals that day. Clean food = more quantity, more bang for your buck!!! Also there is a difference in quality. Processed food sources for example contain large ammounts of chemicals that would impede progress. Protein is not just protein, carbs are not just carbs. If they were my diet would consist of cheese and ham sanwiches every three hours.

**Tru2** · 01-14-2007, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by perfectbeast2001

If you used up your cals with junk instead of clean you would not be eating many meals that day. Clean food = more quantity, more bang for your buck!!! Also there is a difference in quality. Processed food sources for example contain large ammounts of chemicals that would impede progress. Protein is not just protein, carbs are not just carbs. If they were my diet would consist of cheese and ham sanwiches every three hours.

Really Protein is not just protein? then what is protein. likewise with carbs.. if carbs are not just carbs.. then.. um.. what are they?

yes, Iagree.. clean food does = more quantity - hence the satiety reasoning and the less likely you are to over consume. Hence one of the biggest reasons I do add a little more junk when I'm bulking though I rarely eat processed foods. though I am interested in the chemicals you speak of that might impede progress. How do you know they might impede progress.

I certainly don't disagree that consuming whole food sources are much healthier for you. I just don't understand how you all come up with your conclusions to such things.

**Tru2** · 01-14-2007, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by zodiac666

well other than health which i consider pretty important there is results. if your main source of protein is whey (which is absorbed very quickly) you are not going to have a constant supply of amino acids in your blood stream which will obviously hinder your muscular gains. and of course if your main source of carbs is white bread and gummi bears which are also processed very quickly, your insulin levels are going to be spiking and dropping all day long which is going to be detrimintal to your training as well as your everyday life.

are you saying that if my morning meal says to have 40g protein and 60g carbs i could just have a whey shake and a large mountain dew?

the source of your macros as well as the times of day you eat are very important

so.. what happens to your muscles then? so you are saying if I quite simply eat my protein and my carbs and my fats ensuring that I have the required macros - but don't pay a huge amount of attention to where my sources come from.. even though i'm carefully tracking my macros. and of course I'm training as per usual, then I'm not going to gain muscle? assuming of course I'm eating above maintenance. (and never mind about other health implications.. this is about muscular gains)... are you sure about that?

**zodiac666** · 01-14-2007, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Tru2

so.. what happens to your muscles then? so you are saying if I quite simply eat my protein and my carbs and my fats ensuring that I have the required macros - but don't pay a huge amount of attention to where my sources come from.. even though i'm carefully tracking my macros. and of course I'm training as per usual, then I'm not going to gain muscle? assuming of course I'm eating above maintenance. (and never mind about other health implications.. this is about muscular gains)... are you sure about that?

reread my above post..."if your main source of protein is whey (which is absorbed very quickly) you are not going to have a constant supply of amino acids in your blood stream which will obviously hinder your muscular gains. and of course if your main source of carbs is white bread and gummi bears which are also processed very quickly, your insulin levels are going to be spiking and dropping all day long which is going to be detrimental to your training as well as your everyday life."

you are right you can make gains even if you dont focus very hard on your diet, but if you do focus on your diet and the sources that your macros come from your gains will be a lot better. clear enough for you???

you are saying that your gains will be the same whether you selectively choose your sources of macros or you look at all macros as the same. that is just plain wrong, different macros break down faster or slower and when you eat protein to repair your muscles it has to have all the essential amino acids so your muscles can actually use it. it is much more complicated than calories in calories but im sure you will learn that as you get more experienced

if you are kidding with these posts i apologize

***perfectbeast2001*** · 01-14-2007, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by Tru2

Really Protein is not just protein? then what is protein. likewise with carbs.. if carbs are not just carbs.. then.. um.. what are they?

yes, Iagree.. clean food does = more quantity - hence the satiety reasoning and the less likely you are to over consume. Hence one of the biggest reasons I do add a little more junk when I'm bulking though I rarely eat processed foods. though I am interested in the chemicals you speak of that might impede progress. How do you know they might impede progress.

I certainly don't disagree that consuming whole food sources are much healthier for you. I just don't understand how you all come up with your conclusions to such things.

well for starters how about the amino profile of protein sources? or the bio availability.
Carbs, GI?

Just off the top of my head chemicals in processed food that hinder gains, MSG - shown to cause obesity, high BP, tachycardia, angina, joint pain, stiffness (affects training intesity), depression (releasing cortisol which is in itelf catabolic) innsomnia, panic attacks, Diarrhea (affecting nutrient intake of all other foods due to poor digestion) IBS (see previous), Asthma (affects training),
Trans fat, increase LDL and reduce HDL leading to heart attack, blunt insulin response causing diabetes, ultimately early death.

Early death pretty much minimizes muscle gains totally I would think.

I would like to think you are just playing devils advocate or you are joking?

**Tru2** · 01-14-2007, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by perfectbeast2001

well for starters how about the amino profile of protein sources? or the bio availability.
Carbs, GI?

Just off the top of my head chemicals in processed food that hinder gains, MSG - shown to cause obesity, high BP, tachycardia, angina, joint pain, stiffness (affects training intesity), depression (releasing cortisol which is in itelf catabolic) innsomnia, panic attacks, Diarrhea (affecting nutrient intake of all other foods due to poor digestion) IBS (see previous), Asthma (affects training),
Trans fat, increase LDL and reduce HDL leading to heart attack, blunt insulin response causing diabetes, ultimately early death.

Early death pretty much minimizes muscle gains totally I would think.

I would like to think you are just playing devils advocate or you are joking?

I'm not joking. devils advocate if you like. No harm in a little digging for debate right?

I'm more than skeptical about the common advice given out on some boards-Curiousity as to where you were coming from more than anything else.

I guess I'm just used to hanging out a bit more with argumentative labcoats that have a tendency to throw up scientific based studies with their arguments. And I thrive on knowledge beyond what "appears to work for my body".

Though I don't entirely agree with everything you are saying previously.. I'm not nearly equipped enough to argue it.

Having said that. I occasionally enjoy about 75 grams of ice cream (yes I weigh it) from an indepent whole foods supplier (ie - all natural no preservatives). and I never cheat.

**Tru2** · 01-14-2007, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by zodiac666

reread my above post..."if your main source of protein is whey (which is absorbed very quickly) you are not going to have a constant supply of amino acids in your blood stream which will obviously hinder your muscular gains. and of course if your main source of carbs is white bread and gummi bears which are also processed very quickly, your insulin levels are going to be spiking and dropping all day long which is going to be detrimental to your training as well as your everyday life."

you are right you can make gains even if you dont focus very hard on your diet, but if you do focus on your diet and the sources that your macros come from your gains will be a lot better. clear enough for you???

you are saying that your gains will be the same whether you selectively choose your sources of macros or you look at all macros as the same. that is just plain wrong, different macros break down faster or slower and when you eat protein to repair your muscles it has to have all the essential amino acids so your muscles can actually use it. it is much more complicated than calories in calories but im sure you will learn that as you get more experienced

if you are kidding with these posts i apologize

I'm not kidding. I don't entirely agree - but I'm just curious as to your reasonings. Figuring out whether or not to take you seriously.

**SuperLift** · 01-14-2007, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by zodiac666

i present you with steve torano...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bgd0...elated&search=

love your body, lol

Did anyone else click on this link?

That guy has no idea what he is talking about.

"Food has no impact on muscle growth, he says" ....

***perfectbeast2001*** · 01-15-2007, 04:30 AM

Originally Posted by Tru2

I'm not joking. devils advocate if you like. No harm in a little digging for debate right?

I'm more than skeptical about the common advice given out on some boards-Curiousity as to where you were coming from more than anything else.

I guess I'm just used to hanging out a bit more with argumentative labcoats that have a tendency to throw up scientific based studies with their arguments. And I thrive on knowledge beyond what "appears to work for my body".

Though I don't entirely agree with everything you are saying previously.. I'm not nearly equipped enough to argue it.

Having said that. I occasionally enjoy about 75 grams of ice cream (yes I weigh it) from an indepent whole foods supplier (ie - all natural no preservatives). and I never cheat.

Nothing wrong with a little cheat every now and then

**S431M7** · 01-19-2007, 02:25 AM

Okay folks, we get the idea that ice-cream is bad for bulking because it increases body fat. But what about high calorie drinks like "ensure", are they good for bulking? Does it increase body fat?

If u are in the Europe or South America, and not very familiar with drinks like ensure, think of it as some creamy milk that is oftentime flavored with vanilla, choc or other.

***perfectbeast2001*** · 01-19-2007, 04:44 AM

ask yourself how they can fit all those calories into a drink? There are two ways it can be done.

1. loading the drink with carbs (sugar)
2. loading the drink with fat
or many times a combination of the two.

What dose your diet look like, seems like you are looking for shortcuts in your food intake. There are no shortcuts.

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-19-2007, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by zodiac666

reread my above post..."if your main source of protein is whey (which is absorbed very quickly) you are not going to have a constant supply of amino acids in your blood stream which will obviously hinder your muscular gains.

I have to admit that when it comes to the importance of having a constant supply of amino acids I am a lazy sceptic.

Lazy because I have never bothered to look it up in the literature, but I have seen some things that suggest spikes are almost as important as constant levels. (posted about that in this thread Peak vs stable AA levels )

Sceptic because I have personaly never noticed a difference, I even did the most extrem experiment(not by chooise though) to live on shakes alone for a while, this was while cutting, and didnt notice anything negative from that. I dropped a bit more fat and gained strenght.

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-19-2007, 05:28 AM

Originally Posted by S431M7

Okay folks, we get the idea that ice-cream is bad for bulking because it increases body fat. But what about high calorie drinks like "ensure", are they good for bulking? Does it increase body fat?

If u are in the Europe or South America, and not very familiar with drinks like ensure, think of it as some creamy milk that is oftentime flavored with vanilla, choc or other.

All high calorie shakes are rubbish. Its like taking a whey shake and dropping alot of sugar into it or just as bad fructose. When they pour down fructose they even have the nerve to market it as a healthy low gi weight gainer

If you eat 4 proper meals a day and have 2 shakes or so you should have no troubble getting enough kcal and enough of each macro. If you do then you have to take a good luck at your diet.

There is never any reason to force down obscence amounts of kcal for the sake of weightgain. That gained weight will mostly be shit weight that you have to get rid of later.

If you belong to the group of people that want to live the good life when bulking and not be so nazi about foods(where I belong

) then go ahead and have a little icecream every now and then. But thats because it tastes good not because it do good.

**zodiac666** · 01-19-2007, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by johan

I have to admit that when it comes to the importance of having a constant supply of amino acids I am a lazy sceptic.

Lazy because I have never bothered to look it up in the literature, but I have seen some things that suggest spikes are almost as important as constant levels. (posted about that in this thread Peak vs stable AA levels )

Sceptic because I have personaly never noticed a difference, I even did the most extrem experiment(not by chooise though) to live on shakes alone for a while, this was while cutting, and didnt notice anything negative from that. I dropped a bit more fat and gained strenght.

very interesting thread, i am going try adding a shake before each meal, although i would need to see some very conclusive proof that providing your muscles with a constant supply of amino acids is not benificial because it just makes too much sense.

also if you dont have amino acids available for your muscles wouldnt you be in a catabolic state?

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-19-2007, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by zodiac666

very interesting thread, i am going try adding a shake before each meal, although i would need to see some very conclusive proof that providing your muscles with a constant supply of amino acids is not benificial because it just makes too much sense.

also if you dont have amino acids available for your muscles wouldnt that put you in a catabolic state?

Ohh dont get me wrong bro. I am not saying that constant levels isnt good.
It does make alot of sense like you say.
I am just saying that I have never seen any proof that it do help to have constant levels. Some of things that make common sense sometime turn out to be wrong. I have just never bothered to look this up so its more a matter of my personal experience and lazyness. Not any scientific argument.

The abstracts in the link I posted do say however that constant levels do enhance MPS so it surely do not hurt.

My basis for this whole thing was that I several years ago read in a swedish bb mag a article by a quite famous swedish nutritionist that constant levels enhance protein synthesis for a while, but after a few hours protein synthesis goes down again and stay down. The body just stops using the constant feed of aminoacids. Peaking it at those points might bring it up again.

So constant levels through out the whole day might not be needed at all. But it surely wont have a detrimental effect either. I havent been able to find any study that supports his idea though and since I dont have the mag left I cant find any references.

Me personal I dont sweat it much because I havent been able to tell any difference in results betwen beeing 100% strickt with evenly spaced whole meals or just grabbing a shake here and there. Aslong as the daily totalt protein consumption isnt to low it doesnt seem to matter for my results.

Ohh yeah bro let me know how it turns out to grab a shake before every meal. Im very interested in hearing it since I havent tried it myself yet

***perfectbeast2001*** · 01-19-2007, 06:29 AM

I incluse whey in quite a few of my meals, example 1 tin tuna, 1 cup oats mixed with water and one scoop whey. I find this provides the best of both worlds, Slow digesting carbs and protein + a quickly absorbed spike of aminos from the whey.

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-19-2007, 06:31 AM

zodiac and perfect check the other thread I just started in this forum. I dediced to try and se if I can dig up something interesting.

**BigLittleTim** · 01-19-2007, 01:09 PM

My grandfather always used to say: "All little girls are pretty... and deserve icecream."

-BigLittleTim

**zodiac666** · 01-19-2007, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by BigLittleTim

My grandfather always used to say: "All little girls are pretty... and deserve icecream."

-BigLittleTim

did he wear a long overcoat with sunglasses and hang around the high school?

**S431M7** · 01-20-2007, 02:10 PM

wow! what a way to say no, there re bad for bulking. thanks no thanks pb

Originally Posted by perfectbeast2001

ask yourself how they can fit all those calories into a drink? There are two ways it can be done.

1. loading the drink with carbs (sugar)
2. loading the drink with fat
or many times a combination of the two.

What dose your diet look like, seems like you are looking for shortcuts in your food intake. There are no shortcuts.