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Thread: Free Diet advice by Narkissos & Novastepp: Intro to Performance Nutrition 101

  1. #1201
    sixslow is offline New Member
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    hey , I currently weigh 155 Lb's and im 5"11 and dont know what percent body fat but im guessing high.
    My goal is to soon take some AS (either winny or anstrol, maybe something else if you have any advice) and to cut my fat/gain muscle without looking too bulky but i do want to be ******/big (if that makes sense)
    heres my diet now as of 2 weeks ago:

    mon-fri: breakfast Egg whites + 2 pieces of whole grain toast + coffee + 16oz of water
    3hrs: protein shake
    lunch: generally a can of tuna on whole grain bread, I have a really healthy cereal for carbs/fiber it comes in two biscuts i only eat one that equals out to 67 calories
    3hrsrotein shake
    dinner:turkey sandhiwch/chick sandwhich something with lean meat + veggies

    and then on weekends I eat whatever and drink at partys

    20yrold
    i want the same body as brad pitts from fight club and i am prepared to stop drinking on the weekends

  2. #1202
    J-Roc's Avatar
    J-Roc is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixslow View Post
    hey , I currently weigh 155 Lb's and im 5"11 and dont know what percent body fat but im guessing high.
    My goal is to soon take some AS (either winny or anstrol, maybe something else if you have any advice) and to cut my fat/gain muscle without looking too bulky but i do want to be ******/big (if that makes sense)
    heres my diet now as of 2 weeks ago:

    mon-fri: breakfast Egg whites + 2 pieces of whole grain toast + coffee + 16oz of water
    3hrs: protein shake
    lunch: generally a can of tuna on whole grain bread, I have a really healthy cereal for carbs/fiber it comes in two biscuts i only eat one that equals out to 67 calories
    3hrsrotein shake
    dinner:turkey sandhiwch/chick sandwhich something with lean meat + veggies

    and then on weekends I eat whatever and drink at partys

    20yrold
    i want the same body as brad pitts from fight club and i am prepared to stop drinking on the weekends
    Proper diet + solid training program = Brad Pitt Fight Club physique
    AS + poor diet + ??? training = Disappointment

    Maybe I'm wrong... but I can't picture someone at 5'11" 155lbs. with high BF%. I mean, you may not be super cut but those are similar stats from where I started and I'm a pure ectomorph...

    Anyway, how long have you been training? You mentioned nothing about that so I'm going to assume you aren't. So why introduce AS at this stage? You'd be surprised what you can achieve by following a well planned diet and solid training program.

    Figure out your macros and design a meal plan around them. The way you listed your diet you're going at it totally blind. AS won't help you on that diet.

    And know that achieving the Brad Pitt Fight Club physique is TOTALLY attainable without AS, and so much dependent on a proper diet. I think AS would be a total waste based on what you're currently doing.

    Hit the stickied diet threads in this forum, they'll help you tremendously.

  3. #1203
    sixslow is offline New Member
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    ive been training solidly for 2 weeks now (lol) and before this ive always just gone to the gym 1-2 a week for years which is basically nothing because i never knew how to workout till i talked to a guy at nutrition zone and now i am working out right and doing an hour of cardio,

    i dont have extreme BF but i just dont have a sixpack i have a beer belly for sure and im trying to get my proper diet together just a little stuck right now and i watched all the vids on the stickied forum actually just posted a thread with my new diet.

    btw im a endomorph

  4. #1204
    paddy155's Avatar
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    Thanks for the help mate. I was wondering if you could clear a few points for me. I have just read an article that Pinnacle posted a while back about carb cycling. The article was written by Twin Peaks. I found it a very intresting read and I think it is something that I would enjoy trying in order to cut. I have read it over and over but have a few questions I need clearing up.

    1. In the diet I will be consuming minimum of 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight in each of my meals. Is this based on lean bodyweight or total bodyweight in general ?

    2. A part of the article said "keep daily ratios consistent,as each meal will require more food ". I was a little unsure of what was meant here.

    3. Can I still do my cardio first thing am on an empty stomach when carb cycling ?

    4. Which is the best way to rotate the days when trying to cut ? I know it will probally depend on how my body reacts but I was think ofit being like so, Mon - high carb, Tue - low, Wed - no, Thur - high, Fri - low, Sat - no carbs and so on.

    Thanks bud.

    p.S Was on a cruise earlier this year and spend two days in barbados. Lovely place. Met a guy on the ship from barbados that I became friends with. His name was Denton. He was a hair dresser. Quite a big lad. You don't happen to know him ?
    Last edited by paddy155; 06-16-2009 at 01:14 PM. Reason: Forgot a few questions.

  5. #1205
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixslow View Post
    now i am working out right and doing an hour of cardio,

    i dont have extreme BF but i just dont have a sixpack i have a beer belly for sure and im trying to get my proper diet together just a little stuck right now and i watched all the vids on the stickied forum actually just posted a thread with my new diet.
    Good stuff. Keep up the training and get your diet together. You'll get some good feedback if you posted it.

    Just realize AS is an EXTRA and only effective with an already proper diet/training program. So get that in order first.

    Oh ya, and "eating whatever and drinking on weekends" has gotta stop.

  6. #1206
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    Let me start by introducing myself:

    I am 18 years old w/3 & 1/2 years of experience of working out. I was a wrestler in high school starting sophomore year @ 171lbs (5'10).
    That sophomore season (15 yrs.) was eventually followed by a cycle of sustanon 375mcg/ml @ 2 shots per week for 10 weeks with no PCT (very stupid - i know i was 15, but it gets better).
    That cycle got up to 206 (5'11) then I started wrestling practices all over again, which got me down to 190lbs but shredded, then throughout the season - i lost all my size so halfway through junior year i took 20 mgs/dbols every day for 6 weeks during the wrestling season, again no PCT.
    That summer i did another cycle - test enth 250mcg/ml @ shots per week for 14 weeks, the PCT seemed bogus but it was clomid and nolvadex forget mcgs - 2 squirts a week in through the mouth for 6 weeks. That summer I was up @ 211lbs - 6'0.
    Yes I know my puberty was not a healthy one - anyway that wrestling season I took dbols @ 20mgs for 4 weeks around the states championship time in order to get that extra boost - i did win it by the way @ 189 lol.

    If you've read my previous post before editing, i did have intentions of doing another cycle - but I'm past that and am not going to do one - even though my source can get british dragon and QV - WHICH IS VERY HARD TO COME BY WHERE I'M FROM!!

    BMR = 66 + ( 6.23 x weight in pounds ) + ( 12.7 x height in inches ) - ( 6.8 x age in year )
    weight = 200lbs
    height = 72in
    age = 18yr
    BMR = 66 + 1246 + 914.4 + 122.4 = 2348.8
    I could easily say I'm very active - 2348.8 x 1.725 = 4051.68

    (Calories/Proteins/Carbohydrates/Fats)
    7:30 AM - Meal 1:
    3 egg whites – 48/9/0/0
    2 whole eggs – 150/12/2/10
    1 whole wheat English muffin – 120/6/23/1
    2 tbsp. natural peanut butter – 190/7/7/18
    1 tbsp. sugar-free jelly – 10/0/5/0
    Total: 518/34/37/29

    10:30 AM - Meal 2:
    Gold’s Optimum Whey Protein – 110/24/2/1
    1&1/2 cup whole milk – 219/12/20/12
    Total: 329/36/22/13

    1:00 PM - Meal 3:
    1 can of tuna – 300/65/0/5
    2 tbsp. light mayo – 90/0/2/9
    2 cups steamed broccoli – 50/4/8/0
    3 cups brown rice – 450/12/99/3 *check
    Total: 890/81/109/17

    4:00 PM - Meal 4:
    Gold’s Optimum Whey Protein – 110/24/2/1
    1&1/2 cup whole milk – 219/12/20/12
    Total: 329/36/22/13

    6:30 PM – Meal 5:
    8 oz. grilled chicken breast – 260/54/0/2
    2 cups steamed broccoli – 50/4/8/0
    1 large sweet potato – 162/4/37/0
    3 tbsp. ground cinnamon – 51/1/16/1
    2 tbsp. country crock butter – 180/0/0/21
    1/2 cup pomegranate juice – 80/0/20/0
    Total: 783/63/81/24

    9:00 PM – Meal 6 (PWO):
    Pro-Nos workout shake – 300/42/16/9
    1&1/2 cup whole milk – 219/12/20/12
    Total: 519/54/36/21

    11:00 PM – Meal 7
    2 plain rice cakes – 70/2/14/0
    4 tbsp. natural peanut butter – 380/14/14/36
    1 tbsp. sugar-free jelly – 10/0/5/0
    Yoplait light yogurt – 100/5/19/0
    Total: 560/21/51/36

    TOTAL 3928/325/358/153
    ^should i really stress the 25g proteins i'm missing out on and the 47g of fat - i haven't gotten my hands on fish oil yet - but when i get my paycheck i will

    Notes:
    · Must add vitamins (Animal Pak Multi-Vitamins)
    · Must add fish oil with every meal
    · Current supplements: NO2 black, CE2 hi-def, HSP (heat-shock protein)[all 3 by MRI labs], chromium picolinate, glucosamine & chondroitin
    · Supplement HSP must be taken on empty stomach (no food 2 hours before or 2 hours after – so workout days with HSP skip meal 4) Total: 3599/289/336/140
    · Non-workout days skip meal 6 (no PWO shake) Total: 3409/271/322/132
    · Chicken in meal 5 is marinated every day with different flavors
    · Brown rice in meal 3 is mixed with hot sauce (cayenne peppers)
    · Hot sauce has – nutritional value except 150mg sodium per tbsp(I use maybe 8-12 tbsp)
    · Drink diet green tea throughout the day (about 4-8 cups per day)
    · Haven’t ate it yet but – in case I’m hungry – snack = celery w/natural peanut butter

    I am following the Pendulum Bodybuilding Workout that can be found in Pinnacle's sticky "Various Training Techniques," which I will work out with weights for 4 days and the other 3 days do cardio & abs, if i feel like doing both/either - forearms & calves also.

    My cardio regimen consists of - walking 1 min @ 3.5mph, jogging 1 min @ 6.5mph, running @ 10mph, jogging @ 6.5mph, walking @ 3.5mph, then jog,run,jog,walk.jog,run (pyramid with 1 min intervals) - easily burns 350 calories

    Seriously guessing that my body fat falls between 13-17% .. i have a solid guess based on my wrestling experiences with bf..

    I will have pictures this weekend for the before stages - btw a PT in my gym said I'm a ectoendomorph
    Last edited by YoungGunsNY; 06-25-2009 at 04:06 PM.

  7. #1207
    Narkissos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixslow View Post
    hey , I currently weigh 155 Lb's and im 5"11 and dont know what percent body fat but im guessing high.
    It would be in your interest to:

    a. post pics. A front, side, and two profiles. If privacy is a concern, then black your face out in a photo editor program.

    b. Get your bodyfat percentage tested.

    Quote Originally Posted by sixslow View Post
    My goal is to soon take some AS (either winny or anstrol, maybe something else if you have any advice) and to cut my fat/gain muscle without looking too bulky but i do want to be ******/big (if that makes sense)
    Ditch the thought of AAS. You're not in a place where it'd be feasible... in the least.

    Quote Originally Posted by sixslow View Post
    heres my diet now as of 2 weeks ago:

    mon-fri: breakfast Egg whites + 2 pieces of whole grain toast + coffee + 16oz of water
    How many egg whites?

    Quote Originally Posted by sixslow View Post
    3hrs: protein shake
    How many scoops of protein? What else is in this 'protein shake'?

    Quote Originally Posted by sixslow View Post
    lunch: generally a can of tuna on whole grain bread, I have a really healthy cereal for carbs/fiber it comes in two biscuts i only eat one that equals out to 67 calories
    Vague.

    Quote Originally Posted by sixslow View Post
    3hrsrotein shake
    See previous statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by sixslow View Post
    dinner:turkey sandhiwch/chick sandwhich something with lean meat + veggies
    Vague.

    Quote Originally Posted by sixslow View Post
    and then on weekends I eat whatever and drink at partys
    ...no comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by sixslow View Post
    20yrold
    i want the same body as brad pitts from fight club and i am prepared to stop drinking on the weekends
    The only good thing I can say about your approach is that at least you're eating at regular intervals tru-out the day apparently.

    However... there isn't much else I can say.

    You need to work out the protein/carb/fat intake of each meal so we can tell you what you need to be eating to make your goals.

    Brad Pitt's fight club look was lean as hell.

    You're not going to get that by half-assing your diet and boozing weekly.

    Not at your level of lean body mass that is.

    -CNS

  8. #1208
    Narkissos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Roc View Post

    Maybe I'm wrong... but I can't picture someone at 5'11" 155lbs. with high BF%. I mean, you may not be super cut but those are similar stats from where I started and I'm a pure ectomorph...
    I can.

    We call those guys 'college kids'.

    Quote Originally Posted by J-Roc View Post

    And know that achieving the Brad Pitt Fight Club physique is TOTALLY attainable without AS, and so much dependent on a proper diet. I think AS would be a total waste based on what you're currently doing.

    Hit the stickied diet threads in this forum, they'll help you tremendously.
    Agreed.

    -CNS

  9. #1209
    Narkissos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paddy155 View Post
    Thanks for the help mate. I was wondering if you could clear a few points for me. I have just read an article that Pinnacle posted a while back about carb cycling. The article was written by Twin Peaks. I found it a very intresting read and I think it is something that I would enjoy trying in order to cut.
    Could you link to it here for reference?

    I'm sure some of the guys who haven't read it, would like to.

    Quote Originally Posted by paddy155 View Post
    I have read it over and over but have a few questions I need clearing up.
    I'll try to do just that.

    Quote Originally Posted by paddy155 View Post
    1. In the diet I will be consuming minimum of 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight in each of my meals. Is this based on lean bodyweight or total bodyweight in general ?
    I can't attest to twinpeak's rationale... because I know it'll probably go against my own. (re: the community's fixation on uberhigh protein intake v.s. my own thoughts)

    Personally I go with 1 gr per lb of LBM.

    I'd suggest you go with 1 gr per lb of bodyweight however... as this gives you more leeway... particularly if you carb cycle to an extreme.

    e.g. I sometimes have my clients carb cycle tru: high; medium; 'low'; very-low; no-carb.

    This isn't a typical carb-cycle however, so higher protein intake + supplemental fats (the latter of which I cycle as well) become necessary.

    Anyway, I've digressed.

    Go with 1 gr per lb of bodyweight if you're doing an extreme carb-cycle.

    Quote Originally Posted by paddy155 View Post
    2. A part of the article said "keep daily ratios consistent,as each meal will require more food ". I was a little unsure of what was meant here.
    Link me to the article.

    I'd prefer not to try to relay his intent via the analysis of one line.

    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by paddy155 View Post
    3. Can I still do my cardio first thing am on an empty stomach when carb cycling ?
    You can.

    However, you'd know that I don't truly believe in fasted cardio.

    I don't see an issue however.

    You're doing steady-state I assume?

    Quote Originally Posted by paddy155 View Post
    4. Which is the best way to rotate the days when trying to cut ? I know it will probally depend on how my body reacts but I was think ofit being like so, Mon - high carb, Tue - low, Wed - no, Thur - high, Fri - low, Sat - no carbs and so on.
    Place the high days the day before your heaviest work outs.

    Place the medium days that day of your heaviest work outs.

    Sprinkle low and no-carb days in between.

    Or.. you can pyramid down tru-out the week.

    We tend to overcomplicate things in the beginning... when there is no need to.

    btw: I'd suggest that you carb deplete prior to starting carb cycling.

    Quote Originally Posted by paddy155 View Post
    Thanks bud.
    np mate.

    Quote Originally Posted by paddy155 View Post
    p.S Was on a cruise earlier this year and spend two days in barbados. Lovely place. Met a guy on the ship from barbados that I became friends with. His name was Denton. He was a hair dresser. Quite a big lad. You don't happen to know him ?
    Not personally.

    Would you like to get in contact with him?

    -CNS

  10. #1210
    Narkissos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungGunsNY View Post
    Let me start by introducing myself:

    I am 18 years old w/3 & 1/2 years of experience of working out. I was a wrestler in high school starting sophomore year @ 171lbs (5'10).
    That sophomore season (15 yrs.) was eventually followed by a cycle of sustanon 375mcg/ml @ 2 shots per week for 10 weeks with no PCT (very stupid - i know i was 15, but it gets better).
    That cycle got up to 206 (5'11) then I started wrestling practices all over again, which got me down to 190lbs but shredded, then throughout the season - i lost all my size so halfway through junior year i took 20 mgs/dbols every day for 6 weeks during the wrestling season, again no PCT.
    That summer i did another cycle - test enth 250mcg/ml @ shots per week for 14 weeks, the PCT seemed bogus but it was clomid and nolvadex forget mcgs - 2 squirts a week in through the mouth for 6 weeks. That summer I was up @ 211lbs - 6'0.
    Yes I know my puberty was not a healthy one - anyway that wrestling season I took dbols @ 20mgs for 4 weeks around the states championship time in order to get that extra boost - i did win it by the way @ 189 lol.
    wow.

    I almost can't believe that this is a real story.

    I won't/can't flame you though.

    I'm glad you decided not to try yet another cycle.

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungGunsNY View Post
    BMR = 66 + ( 6.23 x weight in pounds ) + ( 12.7 x height in inches ) - ( 6.8 x age in year )
    weight = 200lbs
    height = 72in
    age = 18yr
    BMR = 66 + 1246 + 914.4 + 122.4 = 2348.8
    I could easily say I'm very active - 2348.8 x 1.725 = 4051.68
    Very active?

    Describe you average day, and week.

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungGunsNY View Post
    (Calories/Proteins/Carbohydrates/Fats)
    7:30 AM - Meal 1:
    3 egg whites – 48/9/0/0
    2 whole eggs – 150/12/2/10
    1 whole wheat English muffin – 120/6/23/1
    2 tbsp. natural peanut butter – 190/7/7/18
    1 tbsp. sugar-free jelly – 10/0/5/0
    Total: 518/34/37/29

    10:30 AM - Meal 2:
    Gold’s Optimum Whey Protein – 110/24/2/1
    1&1/2 cup whole milk – 219/12/20/12
    Total: 329/36/22/13

    1:00 PM - Meal 3:
    1 can of tuna – 300/65/0/5
    2 tbsp. light mayo – 90/0/2/9
    2 cups steamed broccoli – 50/4/8/0
    3 cups brown rice – 450/12/99/3 *check
    Total: 890/81/109/17

    4:00 PM - Meal 4:
    Gold’s Optimum Whey Protein – 110/24/2/1
    1&1/2 cup whole milk – 219/12/20/12
    Total: 329/36/22/13

    6:30 PM – Meal 5:
    8 oz. grilled chicken breast – 260/54/0/2
    2 cups steamed broccoli – 50/4/8/0
    1 large sweet potato – 162/4/37/0
    3 tbsp. ground cinnamon – 51/1/16/1
    2 tbsp. country crock butter – 180/0/0/21
    1/2 cup pomegranate juice – 80/0/20/0
    Total: 783/63/81/24

    9:00 PM – Meal 6 (PWO):
    Pro-Nos workout shake – 300/42/16/9
    1&1/2 cup whole milk – 219/12/20/12
    Total: 519/54/36/21

    11:00 PM – Meal 7
    2 plain rice cakes – 70/2/14/0
    4 tbsp. natural peanut butter – 380/14/14/36
    1 tbsp. sugar-free jelly – 10/0/5/0
    Yoplait light yogurt – 100/5/19/0
    Total: 560/21/51/36

    TOTAL 3928/325/358/153
    Your diet is all over the place mate.

    Huge gobs of protein in some meals... barely any in others.

    Same with the fat.

    I am truly curious as to what your previous 'diets' looked like.

    Do you have any saved?

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungGunsNY View Post
    ^should i really stress the 25g proteins i'm missing out on and the 47g of fat - i haven't gotten my hands on fish oil yet - but when i get my paycheck i will

    Notes:
    · Must add vitamins (Animal Pak Multi-Vitamins)
    · Must add fish oil with every meal
    · Current supplements: NO2 black, CE2 hi-def, HSP (heat-shock protein)[all 3 by MRI labs], chromium picolinate, glucosamine & chondroitin
    · Supplement HSP must be taken on empty stomach (no food 2 hours before or 2 hours after – so workout days with HSP skip meal 4) Total: 3599/289/336/140
    Holy supplement overload batman!

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungGunsNY View Post
    · Non-workout days skip meal 6 (no PWO shake) Total: 3409/271/322/132
    · Chicken in meal 5 is marinated every day with different flavors
    · Brown rice in meal 3 is mixed with hot sauce (cayenne peppers)
    · Hot sauce has – nutritional value except 150mg sodium per tbsp(I use maybe 8-12 tbsp)
    · Drink diet green tea throughout the day (about 4-8 cups per day)
    · Haven’t ate it yet but – in case I’m hungry – snack = celery w/natural peanut butter
    Noted.

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungGunsNY View Post
    I am following the Pendulum Bodybuilding Workout that can be found in Pinnacle's sticky "Various Training Techniques," which I will work out with weights for 4 days and the other 3 days do cardio & abs, if i feel like doing both/either - forearms & calves also.
    Also noted.

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungGunsNY View Post
    My cardio regimen consists of - walking 1 min @ 3.5mph, jogging 1 min @ 6.5mph, running @ 10mph, jogging @ 6.5mph, walking @ 3.5mph, then jog,run,jog,walk.jog,run (pyramid with 1 min intervals) - easily burns 350 calories
    total duration?

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungGunsNY View Post
    Seriously guessing that my body fat falls between 13-17% .. i have a solid guess based on my wrestling experiences with bf..
    13-17% is a huge range.

    I'd suggest you get it tested... and/or post pics.

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungGunsNY View Post
    I will have pictures this weekend for the before stages - btw a PT in my gym said I'm a ectoendomorph
    Ignore your gym's PT.

    Get those pics up.

    -CNS

  11. #1211
    chris1 is offline Junior Member
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    need a good diet

    i dont take steroids i am just looking for a good diet ti go along with my training. i am 21 5ft10" and weigh 158 pounds. hav got a bit of a belly no matter how many sit ups a do it wont budge. would lik to bulk up a bit but a dont think a can do that with out it goin to my belly. can u help me please

  12. #1212
    Narkissos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris1 View Post
    i dont take steroids i am just looking for a good diet ti go along with my training. i am 21 5ft10" and weigh 158 pounds. hav got a bit of a belly no matter how many sit ups a do it wont budge. would lik to bulk up a bit but a dont think a can do that with out it goin to my belly. can u help me please
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=75729
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=113010

    -CNS

  13. #1213
    eatrainrest's Avatar
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    hey nark, i know you are a favorite of higher carbs in your posts... but what is the necessity of carbs after your PWO PPWO meals? unless its restoring muscle glycogen i dont see the point.. but maybe there is a formula to tell?

  14. #1214
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatrainrest View Post
    hey nark, i know you are a favorite of higher carbs in your posts... but what is the necessity of carbs after your PWO PPWO meals? unless its restoring muscle glycogen i dont see the point.. but maybe there is a formula to tell?
    In the same manner that protein synthesis isn't restricted to isolated times during the day, restoring muscle glycogen isn't restricted to PWO.

    It is a continuous process.

    -CNS

  15. #1215
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    Quote Originally Posted by *Narkissos*;4748***
    In the same manner that protein synthesis isn't restricted to isolated times during the day, restoring muscle glycogen isn't restricted to PWO.

    It is a continuous process.

    -CNS
    yes i know that its a continuous process of restoration but is there a formula or way to find out how many carbs you are actually utilizing toward restoring muscle glycogen?

  16. #1216
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatrainrest View Post
    yes i know that its a continuous process of restoration but is there a formula or way to find out how many carbs you are actually utilizing toward restoring muscle glycogen?
    A formula applicable to our purpose? No.

    Glycogen restoration formulae are based on endurance athletes... as well as guys who train hard multiple times daily.

    The latter may apply to competitive bodybuilders such as myself and clients... but not to the average forum member.

    It would be advisable (and has been advised on this thread) that one simply calculate your daily carb requirement, based on one's LBM and level activity... and that one spread said intake over the course of the day.

    A competitive bodybuilder could further tweak this by reviewing his 'fullness' tru-out the day.

    Based on the look, he'd know whether to increase his intake, maintain it, or cease (for that day).

    -CNS

  17. #1217
    chris1 is offline Junior Member
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    help

    i am 21 158 ounds bein working out for a year started taking animal stack to c if they help and just got pro max whey-protean and was wondering if u could gve me a good diet to bulk a bit but lose fat at ma belly no matter the sit upa do it wont shift. if u dont mind need to knw the rite stuff to eat and hw much protean to take asweel.normaly only hav bout 1200 calories a day a need help please

  18. #1218
    Narkissos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris1 View Post
    i am 21 158 ounds bein working out for a year started taking animal stack to c if they help and just got pro max whey-protean and was wondering if u could gve me a good diet to bulk a bit but lose fat at ma belly no matter the sit upa do it wont shift. if u dont mind need to knw the rite stuff to eat and hw much protean to take asweel.normaly only hav bout 1200 calories a day a need help please
    I already responded your to question.

    Read the threads provided.

    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=75729
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=113010

    -CNS

  19. #1219
    chris1 is offline Junior Member
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    sorry could not find the last post but fanx for the info

  20. #1220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narkissos View Post
    wow.

    I almost can't believe that this is a real story.

    I won't/can't flame you though.

    I'm glad you decided not to try yet another cycle.

    ^^^well im in america, and gears illegal, but i hung around with older kids @ 15,16 and got it with them...there are stories far worse than mine, but past is past...sadly.........



    Very active?

    Describe you average day, and week.

    ^^^i work in a meat warehouse and stack 80 pound boxes left and right, plus i use a walker machine to transport pallets - monday-friday.. saturday ill play handball (american) or football once in awhile

    Your diet is all over the place mate.

    Huge gobs of protein in some meals... barely any in others.

    Same with the fat.

    I am truly curious as to what your previous 'diets' looked like.

    Do you have any saved?

    ^^uhm.. diet was never strict.. jus always a regimen of eating 5-7 meals a day, with eggs&egg whites, grilled chicken wraps, muscle milks, mothers cooked dinners



    Holy supplement overload batman!

    ^^ well im only takin multi-vitamins(animal stack), fish oil, glucostamine&choniditrin or watevr it is
    i figured if i aint juicin i might as well do many supplements, and i stuck with mri brand stuff...



    total duration?

    ^^cardio 25-30mins

    13-17% is a huge range.

    I'd suggest you get it tested... and/or post pics.

    ^^pics will follow this post



    Ignore your gym's PT.

    Get those pics up.

    -CNS
    thanks again! pics will follwo

  21. #1221
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    ^^personal favorite



    mind you these pics were taken a monday after a full week of cheating my diet b/c i was on vacation......

  22. #1222
    Narkissos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungGunsNY View Post






    ^^personal favorite



    mind you these pics were taken a monday after a full week of cheating my diet b/c i was on vacation......
    No pics were loaded.

    Did you try to copy and paste from your email or pc?

    You'll need to upload 'em to this site's server... or a pic-host like photo-bucket.
    -Corey "Narkissos" Springer

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasmk4
    Nark is like intel, Brilliant inside and awsome outside :-)
    Quote Originally Posted by Narkissos
    Here's a little-known-secret, that most people won't tell you: In the sphere of fitness, everything works.
    Every(intelligent)thing works (once aptly and consistently applied)
    It really is that simple.
    This is the perpetual bodybuilding paradigm
    **No Source Checks**
    Contact Me

  23. #1223
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    sorry - hopefully it works now..

  24. #1224
    YoungGunsNY's Avatar
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    I have another diet in mind with a little more planning. It has much more meat but the calories aren't as high and I have very little fats. But I like the foundation - please help!

    CAL/PRO/CARB/FAT
    Meal 1)7:30 - sirloin steak & 2 whole eggs(sunny-side up)
    560/82/2/21

    Meal 2)10:00 - optimum pro complex shake (8 different sources of protein) & 1/2 cup oats
    410/65/31/4

    Meal 3)12:30 - 8oz. tuna steak & 1 cup brown rice & 2 cup broccoli
    440/60/41/3

    Meal 4)3:00 - 1&1/5 cup of whole wheat pasta & 12oz. shrimp
    471/55/55/2

    Meal 5)5:30 - 8oz. chicken breast & 1 cup sweet potato & 2 cup broccoli
    490/62/49/2

    Meal 6)8:00 - Optimum whey protein shake
    220/48/4/2

    Meal 7)10:30 - 6oz. turkey breast & activia yogurt
    380/57/19/7

    Meal 8)1:00 or before bed - Optimum pro complex shake
    260/60/4/1

    Total: 3331/489/205/42

    I can do without the turkey breast (would be a lot cheaper) & the sirloin steak in the morning .. but please help with this **where the hell should I get my fats from?

  25. #1225
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    should i be breaking my meals to pro/carb & pro/fat meals or should i jus try to conquer as much as possible in each without going overboard?
    Last edited by YoungGunsNY; 07-31-2009 at 02:27 PM.

  26. #1226
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    Imma bump this for a couple more questions, before I tackle yours.

    Please bear with me.

    Thanks.
    -Corey "Narkissos" Springer

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasmk4
    Nark is like intel, Brilliant inside and awsome outside :-)
    Quote Originally Posted by Narkissos
    Here's a little-known-secret, that most people won't tell you: In the sphere of fitness, everything works.
    Every(intelligent)thing works (once aptly and consistently applied)
    It really is that simple.
    This is the perpetual bodybuilding paradigm
    **No Source Checks**
    Contact Me

  27. #1227
    tembe's Avatar
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    Hey Narkissos,

    wondering if you could help me out with this bulking diet,

    Meal 1: Pro/Carb

    8 Egg Whites, 1 Scoop Of Whey Protein, 1.5 cup oatmeal

    50g protein / 70g carbs / 5g fat



    Meal 2: Pro/Fat

    Lean Ground Beef, Ό cup swiss cheese, green veggies

    55g protein / 2g carbs / 20g fat



    Meal 3: Pro/Carb

    Chicken Breast, 1 and a half cup Brown Rice

    55g protein / 64g carbs / 3g Fat
    **Disclaimer: Meal 3 can be a pro/fat meal if you are ultra sensitive to carb intake.


    Meal 4: Pro/Fat

    2 Cans of Tuna, 1 Tbsp Full Fat Mayonnaise, Veggies

    60g protein / 2g carbs / 13g Fat



    Workout


    Meal 5: PWO Nutrition

    2 Scoops Whey Protein / 50g Dextrose / 50g Maltodextrin

    50g protein / 100g carbs / 0g fat



    Meal 6: PPWO

    Boneless Skinless Chicken Breast, ½ cup Brown Rice (Measured Uncooked)

    50g protein / 70g carbs / 3g fat



    Meal 7: Pro/Fat

    200gm steak, 2 Tbsp Natural Peanut Butter
    50g protein / 5g carbs / 18g fat



    Meal 8: Before Bed

    3 Scoops of Casein Protein, 1.5 Tbsp. Flax Seed Oil

    60g protein / 3g carbs / 21g Fat

    Meal 9: 3:00AM (wake up to piss)

    2 Scoops of Casein Protein
    30g protein

    That turns into approximately 450 grams protein, 270 grams Carbs, and 90 grams of fat. This is roughly 3600 calories

    Taking 500 mg Test E (10 weeks) and 40mg Dbol (4 weeks)

  28. #1228
    Narkissos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungGunsNY View Post



    Blurry but solid-looking all the same.

    These pics don't allow me to see much in the way of detail however... so I'll have to guesstimate.
    -Corey "Narkissos" Springer

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasmk4
    Nark is like intel, Brilliant inside and awsome outside :-)
    Quote Originally Posted by Narkissos
    Here's a little-known-secret, that most people won't tell you: In the sphere of fitness, everything works.
    Every(intelligent)thing works (once aptly and consistently applied)
    It really is that simple.
    This is the perpetual bodybuilding paradigm
    **No Source Checks**
    Contact Me

  29. #1229
    Narkissos's Avatar
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    @200 lbs; 15% BF (or thereabouts)... I think your calories are just about right for bulking.

    I'd suggest that you formulate a second, lower-calorie diet for use on non-weight-training days however.

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungGunsNY View Post
    I have another diet in mind with a little more planning. It has much more meat but the calories aren't as high and I have very little fats. But I like the foundation - please help!
    The calories are sufficient IMO. If anything, I'd change the ratio of macros... not add an specific macro (e.g. fat).

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungGunsNY View Post
    CAL/PRO/CARB/FAT
    Meal 1)7:30 - sirloin steak & 2 whole eggs(sunny-side up)
    560/82/2/21

    Meal 2)10:00 - optimum pro complex shake (8 different sources of protein) & 1/2 cup oats
    410/65/31/4

    Meal 3)12:30 - 8oz. tuna steak & 1 cup brown rice & 2 cup broccoli
    440/60/41/3

    Meal 4)3:00 - 1&1/5 cup of whole wheat pasta & 12oz. shrimp
    471/55/55/2

    Meal 5)5:30 - 8oz. chicken breast & 1 cup sweet potato & 2 cup broccoli
    490/62/49/2

    Meal 6)8:00 - Optimum whey protein shake
    220/48/4/2

    Meal 7)10:30 - 6oz. turkey breast & activia yogurt
    380/57/19/7

    Meal 8)1:00 or before bed - Optimum pro complex shake
    260/60/4/1

    Total: 3331/489/205/42

    I can do without the turkey breast (would be a lot cheaper) & the sirloin steak in the morning .. but please help with this **where the hell should I get my fats from?
    You wouldn't have an issue adding fats if you spread 'em out equally over the course of the day.

    The pro/fat a.m. meal makes no sense... Neither does the protein-onloy pre-bed meal.

    60 grams of protein?

    C'mon man... Bed-time is an elimination phase.

    You want enough protein to curtail catabolism, without interfering with sleep... *or* placing stress on the digestive tract (as everything slows down while you're sleeping).

    Spread your fat intake through-out the day... add a little at bed-time.

    Cut down on the pre-bed protein.

    Heck... cut down on the overall protein intake. You don't need nearly 500 gr of protein. You're piling protein in at the expense of actual fuel.
    -Corey "Narkissos" Springer

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasmk4
    Nark is like intel, Brilliant inside and awsome outside :-)
    Quote Originally Posted by Narkissos
    Here's a little-known-secret, that most people won't tell you: In the sphere of fitness, everything works.
    Every(intelligent)thing works (once aptly and consistently applied)
    It really is that simple.
    This is the perpetual bodybuilding paradigm
    **No Source Checks**
    Contact Me

  30. #1230
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungGunsNY View Post
    should i be breaking my meals to pro/carb & pro/fat meals
    No need.

    Simply be conscious of the 'why' of food combination: Avoid foods you have allergies (however mild) to... This includes foods that make you bloat.

    Combine your protein, fats and carbs... but be mindful of your fat intake at all times. Bump your fiber intake to facilitate elimination.

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungGunsNY View Post
    or should i jus try to conquer as much as possible in each without going overboard?
    This statement contradicts itself.. I think you're confusing yourself. Indiscriminate food ingestion will only get you fat.

    Figure out what you need... eat slightly to that excess, and be consistent in doing so.

    Simple.
    -Corey "Narkissos" Springer

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasmk4
    Nark is like intel, Brilliant inside and awsome outside :-)
    Quote Originally Posted by Narkissos
    Here's a little-known-secret, that most people won't tell you: In the sphere of fitness, everything works.
    Every(intelligent)thing works (once aptly and consistently applied)
    It really is that simple.
    This is the perpetual bodybuilding paradigm
    **No Source Checks**
    Contact Me

  31. #1231
    Narkissos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tembe View Post
    Hey Narkissos,

    wondering if you could help me out with this bulking diet,

    Meal 1: Pro/Carb

    8 Egg Whites, 1 Scoop Of Whey Protein, 1.5 cup oatmeal

    50g protein / 70g carbs / 5g fat



    Meal 2: Pro/Fat

    Lean Ground Beef, Ό cup swiss cheese, green veggies

    55g protein / 2g carbs / 20g fat



    Meal 3: Pro/Carb

    Chicken Breast, 1 and a half cup Brown Rice

    55g protein / 64g carbs / 3g Fat
    **Disclaimer: Meal 3 can be a pro/fat meal if you are ultra sensitive to carb intake.


    Meal 4: Pro/Fat

    2 Cans of Tuna, 1 Tbsp Full Fat Mayonnaise, Veggies

    60g protein / 2g carbs / 13g Fat



    Workout


    Meal 5: PWO Nutrition

    2 Scoops Whey Protein / 50g Dextrose / 50g Maltodextrin

    50g protein / 100g carbs / 0g fat



    Meal 6: PPWO

    Boneless Skinless Chicken Breast, ½ cup Brown Rice (Measured Uncooked)

    50g protein / 70g carbs / 3g fat



    Meal 7: Pro/Fat

    200gm steak, 2 Tbsp Natural Peanut Butter
    50g protein / 5g carbs / 18g fat



    Meal 8: Before Bed

    3 Scoops of Casein Protein, 1.5 Tbsp. Flax Seed Oil

    60g protein / 3g carbs / 21g Fat

    Meal 9: 3:00AM (wake up to piss)

    2 Scoops of Casein Protein
    30g protein

    That turns into approximately 450 grams protein, 270 grams Carbs, and 90 grams of fat. This is roughly 3600 calories

    Taking 500 mg Test E (10 weeks) and 40mg Dbol (4 weeks)
    What are *your* stats buddy?
    -Corey "Narkissos" Springer

    Published Author.
    Owner of :
    Apollo Fitness Barbados etc
    Blogger

    Quote Originally Posted by texasmk4
    Nark is like intel, Brilliant inside and awsome outside :-)
    Quote Originally Posted by Narkissos
    Here's a little-known-secret, that most people won't tell you: In the sphere of fitness, everything works.
    Every(intelligent)thing works (once aptly and consistently applied)
    It really is that simple.
    This is the perpetual bodybuilding paradigm
    **No Source Checks**
    Contact Me

  32. #1232
    tembe's Avatar
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    Age - 21

    Weight - 185 pounds

    Training exp - 4 years

    Goal - 210 pounds

  33. #1233
    Narkissos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tembe
    Age - 21

    Weight - 185 pounds

    Training exp - 4 years

    Goal - 210 pounds
    185 lbs @ what bodyfat percentage?


    Quote Originally Posted by tembe
    Hey Narkissos,

    wondering if you could help me out with this bulking diet,

    Meal 1: Pro/Carb

    8 Egg Whites, 1 Scoop Of Whey Protein, 1.5 cup oatmeal

    50g protein / 70g carbs / 5g fat



    Meal 2: Pro/Fat

    Lean Ground Beef, Ό cup swiss cheese, green veggies

    55g protein / 2g carbs / 20g fat



    Meal 3: Pro/Carb

    Chicken Breast, 1 and a half cup Brown Rice

    55g protein / 64g carbs / 3g Fat
    **Disclaimer: Meal 3 can be a pro/fat meal if you are ultra sensitive to carb intake.


    Meal 4: Pro/Fat

    2 Cans of Tuna, 1 Tbsp Full Fat Mayonnaise, Veggies

    60g protein / 2g carbs / 13g Fat



    Workout


    Meal 5: PWO Nutrition

    2 Scoops Whey Protein / 50g Dextrose / 50g Maltodextrin

    50g protein / 100g carbs / 0g fat



    Meal 6: PPWO

    Boneless Skinless Chicken Breast, ½ cup Brown Rice (Measured Uncooked)

    50g protein / 70g carbs / 3g fat



    Meal 7: Pro/Fat

    200gm steak, 2 Tbsp Natural Peanut Butter
    50g protein / 5g carbs / 18g fat



    Meal 8: Before Bed

    3 Scoops of Casein Protein, 1.5 Tbsp. Flax Seed Oil

    60g protein / 3g carbs / 21g Fat

    Meal 9: 3:00AM (wake up to piss)

    2 Scoops of Casein Protein
    30g protein

    That turns into approximately 450 grams protein, 270 grams Carbs, and 90 grams of fat. This is roughly 3600 calories

    Taking 500 mg Test E (10 weeks) and 40mg Dbol (4 weeks
    The above diet, unless you're fat, is just too high in protein and not high enough in carbs.

    Calories are about right for your projected goal weight... but the macros I don't like at all.

    How many days are you training per week?

    Are you doing cardio... or rather, are you planning to do cardio?

    What's your training volume look like?
    -Corey "Narkissos" Springer

    Published Author.
    Owner of :
    Apollo Fitness Barbados etc
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasmk4
    Nark is like intel, Brilliant inside and awsome outside :-)
    Quote Originally Posted by Narkissos
    Here's a little-known-secret, that most people won't tell you: In the sphere of fitness, everything works.
    Every(intelligent)thing works (once aptly and consistently applied)
    It really is that simple.
    This is the perpetual bodybuilding paradigm
    **No Source Checks**
    Contact Me

  34. #1234
    FinaZurp's Avatar
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    hey nark... I saw earlier in this thred that you used two specific protein supps.I was wondering when are you using these particular powders? What time of day; PWO, before bed? I would assume the egg would be PWO, and the other milk and egg would be anytime especially at night? How do you feel about dymatize elite whey and 12-hour? I like those in particular because the already include BCAA's and are pretty inexpensive where I get them. $31 for 5lb. and $26 for 4.4lb. respectively. I searched your powders and they are about the same. I'm trying to get the most bang for my buck without sacrificing to much quality. Your thoughts? Any help would be appreciated.

    P.S. I also noticed that your choices are slightly lower in carbs but I adjust my macros.

  35. #1235
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    Bump...?

  36. #1236
    yesitsreallyjosh is offline Junior Member
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    Hello Nark, I have just begun a cutting diet. No AAS involved. My goal is to preserve muscle while dropping body fat as quickly as possible. Here are my stats:

    6'4" 24 year old male
    190lbs, 165 lbs LBM (13 percent bodyfat, 6-8 percent bodyfat goal ASAP)
    TDEE - 3450

    I exercise about an hour a day, 6 days a week. I'm currently doing HIIT 3 days a week for cardio, and hitting the gym 3 days a week (each bodypart once a week, 3-4 three set exercises per body part, 10 rep range), 1 day of rest (Sunday).

    Just wondering if you could calculate my caloric intake and macro spread so that I may post a diet to be critiqued. Also, any suggestions on how to improve my training methods/training spread would be immensely appreciated!!!

    Thank you so much Nark, your the best as always. God bless brotha!!!!


    PS - How would you recommend taking Acetyl L-Carnitine, arginine and glutamine whilst cutting? I'm currently taking

    -1 grams acetyl l-carnitine pre workout/pre cardio on an empty stomach
    -1 gram l-carnitine post workout
    -5 grams of arginine 1hr preweights
    -5 grams of glutamine 30min precardio

    i know it might be a 'Holy supplement overload, Batman'.... however i do have these things on hand and i figure i might as well use them!

    last question = Do simple carbs need to be ingested post cardio on cardio only days? i usually skip straight to protein or a moderate-complex carb/protein meal 30-45 min later....

    As always, you are the best-
    Last edited by yesitsreallyjosh; 09-29-2009 at 06:13 AM.

  37. #1237
    Narkissos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by finazurp View Post
    I would assume the egg would be PWO, and the other milk and egg would be anytime especially at night?
    Actually, I use them each interchangeably.

    This has been made possible due to the type of dieting I subscribe to: 24-hour nutrition (i.e. moderate protein, moderate carb, low-to-moderate fat in each meal)

    Gastric emptying as it relates to this style of dieting, is such that it facilitates optimal assimilation. i.e. a trickle of nutrients as opposed to a flood.

    The latter would see deamination of the quick-acting protein (egg).

    However, w/ carbs and fats (in addition to protein), deamination isn't a signficant consideration.

    Ergo I use eggwhite protein at any time of day. Milk and egg protein I also use at any time.

    The amino acid profile of each is great.

    Quote Originally Posted by finazurp View Post
    How do you feel about dymatize elite whey and 12-hour?
    Dymatize is fine as far as whey products are concerned.

    Quote Originally Posted by finazurp View Post
    I like those in particular because the already include BCAA's and are pretty inexpensive where I get them. $31 for 5lb. and $26 for 4.4lb. respectively.
    Besides the cost, how does your system tolerate 'em?

    To me that's the most important consideration.

    Quote Originally Posted by finazurp View Post
    P.S. I also noticed that your choices are slightly lower in carbs but I adjust my macros.
    Noted.

    -CNS
    -Corey "Narkissos" Springer

    Published Author.
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasmk4
    Nark is like intel, Brilliant inside and awsome outside :-)
    Quote Originally Posted by Narkissos
    Here's a little-known-secret, that most people won't tell you: In the sphere of fitness, everything works.
    Every(intelligent)thing works (once aptly and consistently applied)
    It really is that simple.
    This is the perpetual bodybuilding paradigm
    **No Source Checks**
    Contact Me

  38. #1238
    L1nk is offline New Member
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    Hey Nark, just wondering what you believe is an ideal macronutrient breakdown. On and off cycle if it changes and why? And Im sure you allocate your carbs accordingly to when you need energy. Would a 30% pre and post workout of total carbs be good for that and 15% for breakfest be fine and the rest distributed equally throughout the day
    Last edited by L1nk; 08-22-2009 at 05:52 PM.

  39. #1239
    liftw8t's Avatar
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    Yo Nark wanted to post my diet like you said. This is a typical day for me and some of the food because I use a Diet Tracker, had to break them down.

    Food Name Calories Protein Carbs Fat

    Smart Gainer oz 1644 128 220 28

    Milk, reduced fat, fluid, 2% 238 19 27 6

    Chicken 212 44 0 4

    Oatmeal 167 4 31 3

    Bread, wheat 194 8 36 2

    Carbonated beverage, grape soda 168 0 42 0

    Rice cake, 125 2 27 1

    Fish, tuna salad 370 33 19 18

    pasta salad cup 588 24 60 28

    Peanut butter,573 25 17 45

    Beef, ground, 261 36 0 13

    Total 4540 323 479 148


    Today is dirtier but seriously I'm no higher than 8%bf so I need the dirt lol

    *Oh and these arent in any specific order and the shakes are worth 658/52/88/11 a piece and I have 2 1/2 each day AM, PWO,PM and AM is where I use the milk also.

    *PM me after you take a look

  40. #1240
    manwitplans's Avatar
    manwitplans is offline Senior Member
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    Apr 2007
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    Trying to get help to perfect my bulking diet!

    Help me and perfect this diet, I want it to be 100%, all advices are welcome!


    3180 BMR

    Diet

    1: - 90g oatmeal = P: 10.3, F 7, K 56.8 = Kcal: 353
    - 10eggewhites. = P: 44.9, F: 0, K 1.8 = Kcal189
    - 100g blueberries = P 1, F 0,9, K 7.5 = 51kcal
    - 2 tsb of fishoil = F 22 = 195

    2: - 150g lean ground beef. P 29, F 4,5, K 0 = Kcal: 158
    - 150g pasta. F: 2 P: 17.9 K: 104.7 = 528kcal
    - 125 brokkoli. P 3.8, F 0.4 K 2.6 = Kcal 36

    Workout (on workout days)..

    3: - 90g oatmeal = P: 10.3, F 7, K 56.8 = Kcal: 353
    - 10eggwhites. = P: 44.9, F: 0, K 1.8 = 189
    - 100g blueberries = P 1, F 0,9, K 7.5 = 51kcal

    4: 220g tuna, 1tsp of fishoil, 1tsp of EEVO. = P: 53, F; 24.5 = 436kcal
    5.
    6. 220g tuna, 2tsp of fishoil, 1tsp of EEVO. = P: 53, F; 24.5 = 436kcal

    4, 5, 6 are eaten every couple of half hour until the tuna mix is eaten.
    I will put 4 boxes of tuna and 1/2 garlic in a box, and just eat it untill I go to bed.

    Total:
    - P = 344
    - F = 93.7
    - K = 239.5 (289.5 - workout day)
    - Kcal = 3375 (3575 - workout day)


    Supps:

    - 50g simple carbs (200kcal - workout days)
    - 50g casein (200kcal) (40pro)
    - 50g whey (200kcal) (35pro)
    - ZMA
    - Mineral/vitamin
    - Creatine

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