Frontloaded Test E/Tbol cycle

[jc95605]

Exactly, what i do for size that works great for me is a routine like this:
Monday: Chest/abs/cardio
Tuesday: Back/calfs/cardio
Wednesday: Shoulders/abs/cardio
Thursday: Legs/calfs/cardio
Friday: Arms/abs/cardio
Sat and sun: Off
This works great for me. DO calfs twice a week cus theyre laggin. Not gonna do all the hw for u but go on bb.com, they have very detailed with videos/pics on how to do any and all workouts.

I know i go there to look at excercises too. I just like to get input from ppl to see what works the best. Thats a kool workout and everything but like i already said i have a hard enough time going 4x a week let alone 6x a week. But more power to you.

[ray0414]

actually if your going to work a small muscle with a big one, u might as well do chest/bi and back/tri, that way by the time u get to the small muscle u have already exhausted it, so i suppose that will suffice
and the reason your biceps arent very strong is cause u do them on the same day as chest, which is a pretty exhilarating workout. before i hurt my shoulder i could probably hammer with anything from 50-60s, but theres no way i could use that much after doing one of my chest workouts...unless i was on steroids :P lol biceps gotta be high intensity, and after u've done a full load of chest the intensity either wont be there or wont be the same.

[xo3et]

Dude can really see a improvment, also i may add this is one of the best Logs i have seen. Covers mostly all aspects.

Thanks for taking the time to keep the log so detailed.,

And good luck with the training.

[jc95605]

Thanks x03et, its been a pain in the ass sometimes but i stayed with it.

As far as my biceps i think i'm gonna switch to 21's next week and see how that works.

[AcePowerZ]

Another good Bicep Exercise you want to try is called Static Arm Curls. As where basically you keep one (DB) at 90degrees then do a full curl opposite arm. Then keeping the arm that just completed a rep at 90degrees while the stationary arm from last time completes the rep. Not a Heavy weight Exercise. Light Weight!!!

[jc95605]

Damnit I forgot to mention that i stopped the adex about 2 days ago. I think my gyno has gone away or I just can't feel it anymore. In another couple of weeks i'll start it again with my pct as planned. One thing i want to point out is that while i was on adex my back broke out with acne. PCT is gonna be fun!

[jc95605]

September 1st
Workout Day 29
Cycle Day 91
Weight 177lbs


*As always the changes are in red.

BB Military Press (behind head): 65lbsx10, 85lbsx10, 95lbsx10, 115lbsx10

Front lateral Raise: 25lbsx7, 25lbsx7, 25lbsx7

Side Lateral Raise: 20lbsx7, 20lbsx7, 20lbsx7

*Upright Row: 65lbsx7, 75lbsx7, 75lbsx7

Shrugs (smith machine): 100lbsx15, 110lbsx15, 120lbsx15

Hanging Leg Raises: 25, 25, 25

Combinaton situp (machine): 30lbsx25, 30lbsx25, 30lbsx25

Ab machine: 10lbsx25, 10lbsx25, 10lbsx25

Upright Row-Just wanna make a note that i might be wrong about the upright row i might have went higher on the last set, but i can't honestly remember. But i definately did what i posted above so thats why i left that on there.

[jc95605]

Well today was finally the last injection day, so of course we had a lil problem. I think i was trying to inject to low on my right glute. Anyway when i put the needle in it stung like hell. When i pushed down on the plunger....goodnight, lol. I thought maybe i hit a vein again, so to avoid another swollen asscheck i decided to go ahead and abort. I took the needle out and the injection site swoll up right away. I looked at the needle and thought "you know what, i'm tired of this" so i threw it away. It felt great to finally be done with this cycle. So now the total length of the cycle is 13wks, not bad at all i think. I'll count down from last thursday 13days then start pct.

Also that would mean this is the last entry into the cycle log. I'll keep it going throughout pct if you guys want but i think its served its intial purpose. Either way let me know if you want me to continue it. Thanks.

[3dbigrigs]

Well today was finally the last injection day, so of course we had a lil problem. I think i was trying to inject to low on my right glute. Anyway when i put the needle in it stung like hell. When i pushed down on the plunger....goodnight, lol. I thought maybe i hit a vein again, so to avoid another swollen asscheck i decided to go ahead and abort. I took the needle out and the injection site swoll up right away. I looked at the needle and thought "you know what, i'm tired of this" so i threw it away. It felt great to finally be done with this cycle. So now the total length of the cycle is 13wks, not bad at all i think. I'll count down from last thursday 13days then start pct.

Also that would mean this is the last entry into the cycle log. I'll keep it going throughout pct if you guys want but i think its served its intial purpose. Either way let me know if you want me to continue it. Thanks.

Again please continue, and can you post some final pics before and after, same poses. the pic from your avatar is weeks old, I am sure you are much bigger now.

[binder]

man that sucks. i wouldn't have thrown away perfectly good gear!

Was that the first time you've injected in that area of the glute? First time you hit an area it always hurts a little. I wouldn't go low on the glute though, that's danger zone. You were probably close to the sciatic nerve which is very tender and when you started injecting in the pressure against the nerve would be crazy painful. That's why you inject high and outside on the glutes.

[jc95605]

Ya i think it was. After i put the needle there i looked at it for a second and thought it was a lil low but i thought "ahh it'll be alright." Well it was definately something. I'm kinda tired of pinning anyway. 13wks is good enough for me. My next i'd want to be 10 maybe 11wks.

[binder]

Ya i think it was. After i put the needle there i looked at it for a second and thought it was a lil low but i thought "ahh it'll be alright." Well it was definately something. I'm kinda tired of pinning anyway. 13wks is good enough for me. My next i'd want to be 10 maybe 11wks.

i'll never get tired of that feeling. I'm an extreme sports junky though so pain doesn't bother me. Makes me feel alive. I'm switching to ED injections.

[jc95605]

September 2nd
Cycle Off
Weight 179lbs


As always the changes are in red

BB flat bench: 155lbsx12, 185lbsx10, 205lbsx10, 225lbsx10, 245lbsx5, 265lbsx1, 270lbsx1

Pec-Dec Flys (cables): 30lbsx10, 40lbsx10, 40lbsx10, 40lbsx10

Chest Dips: 10, 10, 6, 10

Curls (using curl bar, 180-90 degrees): 50lbsx7, 50lbsx7, 50lbsx7

Curls (using curl bar, 90-0 degrees): 50lbsx7, 50lbsx7, 50lbsx7

Curls (using curl bar, full sweep): 50lbsx7, 50lbsx7, 50lbsx7

Tricep Pulldown (rope attachment): 80lbsx10, 80lbsx10, 80lbsx10

Tricep Pulldown (triangle attachment): 55lbsx10, 55lbsx10, 55lbsx10


BB Bench (dropsets)-Hit 270lbs again. I love dropsets! Even tho I keep forgetting to go back down in weight but i still love em!

Cable flys (cables)-The major change here is that i added another set. I struggled like hell to do it but i managed. Also I took longer breaks in between sets. Doing this really helps my weight on the bench and this excercise but kills my overall gym time. I think i was there today for a total of 2.5hrs. WAY too long.

Biceps-As you can see i changed up my bicep routine. I was thinking this, then alot of you said it too that i was stumped on my curls. So I switched the excercises back to 21's. I think i had the weight too low cuz i just didn't feel that good of a workout. Furthermore the alternate curl and hammer curl works the outside of the bicep, since i didn't do those i really missed that feeling. Next time i do it i'll add just a little bit of weight and the hammer curl.

*Again any constructive suggestions or comments are always welcome.

[binder]

you said you did a drop set but i dont see it in there.

I think you are doing way too many sets/reps for bench. 7 sets with 49 reps....that's way too many. I'm not the poster child for bench press (my worst exercise) but with you wanting to increase your chest strength i think you are overworking the muscles on your workout. Your 1 rep should be quite a bit higher if you do less sets and definitely reduce those reps on the lighter weights. then if you did a drop set after all that....you're crazy.

you worried about over training your shoulders when i think you are actually to the point of overtraining your chest. It might feel ok now but a few weeks of this workout and the muscles won't be able to recover fully.

[jc95605]

My biggest problem with the dropsets is that after i hit 270lbs, i'm so happy i hit that i don't go back down. Every damn time i do that! My chest is feeling awesome! This guy in another forum did workouts like this and his chest grew .5" in about 4-6wks he said so thats ne goal as far as chest goes. When i have more time i'll post todays workout for shoulders and traps and hopefully you can give that a once over.

[Obro]

Hi JC,

I've not had the time to follow anyone's log for a while now, only update my own.

Wow, I'm not sure how long ago you updated your avatar but that's a massive difference. Congrats. Also I noticed you put on 8 lbs in the last 10 days (171 - 179) !!! Jeez. Awesome. Where are the photos.

In your avatar your traps look realy small.I know that pose is not for traps but I saw you do shrugs on a smith machine at 110 lb. Is that per arm? I'm sorry I'm not sure what a smith machine is (I only have free-weights in my home gym). I use 130 kgs BB for shrugs (286 lbs) and I'm a small guy. Also I only ever do 12 reps for shrugs and it works well for me.

I too have just finished 12 or 13 weeks Test E and I'll be starting PCT on 12th Sept.

Thanks for the log JC. Good luck with PCT. I hope we both keep up the enthusiasm.

Cheers
Obro

[binder]

My biggest problem with the dropsets is that after i hit 270lbs, i'm so happy i hit that i don't go back down. Every damn time i do that! My chest is feeling awesome! This guy in another forum did workouts like this and his chest grew .5" in about 4-6wks he said so thats ne goal as far as chest goes. When i have more time i'll post todays workout for shoulders and traps and hopefully you can give that a once over.

what are you drop sets? there is a huge difference in a "drop set" and just going down in weight.

drop sets are usually done with a flat set before it. like 3 x 8 then you do another set of 8, immediately with no rest drop like 10-15% of the weight and knock out as many as you can to failure then drop another 10-15% weight then go to failure then drop another 10-15% to failure. There is no rest between the sets on drop sets. You can also try to just hit a certain number of reps on the drops like 3-4 reps which should be about all you can get. It's not wise to do a gradual rise in weight up to the drop sets because you'll start to get too many sets in there and drops should be done to failure or almost failure. They are very taxing on the system.

I just haven't seen a dropset workout posted in your log and you said you did them so i was curious what you did for them.

[jc95605]

Hi JC,

I've not had the time to follow anyone's log for a while now, only update my own.

Wow, I'm not sure how long ago you updated your avatar but that's a massive difference. Congrats. Also I noticed you put on 8 lbs in the last 10 days (171 - 179) !!! Jeez. Awesome. Where are the photos.

In your avatar your traps look realy small.I know that pose is not for traps but I saw you do shrugs on a smith machine at 110 lb. Is that per arm? I'm sorry I'm not sure what a smith machine is (I only have free-weights in my home gym). I use 130 kgs BB for shrugs (286 lbs) and I'm a small guy. Also I only ever do 12 reps for shrugs and it works well for me.

I too have just finished 12 or 13 weeks Test E and I'll be starting PCT on 12th Sept.

Thanks for the log JC. Good luck with PCT. I hope we both keep up the enthusiasm.

Cheers
Obro

No the 110lbs on the smith machine is for both. My trap since that pic are a lil bigger now. I'm starting to work them alot more now. Also this last workout i got with the owner/trainer and he showed me a different workout for my trap. The were sore, it was awesome. Now i'm using a "shug machine" and i'm doing the upright row. Both those excercises target your traps, it feels awesome. I'm gonna start my pct this wednesday. It'll be 13 days after my last injection. I'm gonna post my pics around then and post some cycle end results.

[jc95605]

what are you drop sets? there is a huge difference in a "drop set" and just going down in weight.

drop sets are usually done with a flat set before it. like 3 x 8 then you do another set of 8, immediately with no rest drop like 10-15% of the weight and knock out as many as you can to failure then drop another 10-15% weight then go to failure then drop another 10-15% to failure. There is no rest between the sets on drop sets. You can also try to just hit a certain number of reps on the drops like 3-4 reps which should be about all you can get. It's not wise to do a gradual rise in weight up to the drop sets because you'll start to get too many sets in there and drops should be done to failure or almost failure. They are very taxing on the system.

I just haven't seen a dropset workout posted in your log and you said you did them so i was curious what you did for them.

See post #155. Thats what i'm trying to do if i ever remember to. I think its working real well on my chest doesn't feel bad in anyway. Feels pumped up. I usually give about 4mins between sets. Also at least 2 day between workouts. Recently as you can tell with the log, i've been waiting longer inbetween workouts. This isn't on purpose, just i'm in the middle of my project truck. Anyway thanks again for your input and i will consider it.

[jc95605]

September 6th
Weight 178lbs


*As always the changes are in red.

BB Military Press (behind head): 65lbsx10, 85lbsx10, 95lbsx10, 115lbsx10

Front lateral Raise: 25lbsx7, 25lbsx7, 25lbsx7

Side Lateral Raise: 20lbsx7, 20lbsx7, 20lbsx7

*Upright Row: 45lbsx10, 65lbsx10, 75lbsx10, 75lbsx7

Shrugs ("shrug machine"): 100lbsx10, 100lbsx10, 100lbsx15, 120lbsx10, 120lbsx10]

Upright Row-So today i asked the owner/trainer the correct way to do a upright row. He showed me his workout. Holy crap my traps burned, it was awesome. Apparently i was doing them right. The way he does it is he starts low and gradually work his way up. He does 6 sets. As i was doing them i lost count, to be honest. I think i did 4 or 5 and my trap were killing me. So i know it was good enough for the first day. Next time i do them i'll keep better track of it.

Where i did the upright row we used a different "machine"/rack that worked a lil better. He wanted to lift the barbell with a different hand positing but it hurt my wrists, so i only did 2 sets then stopped that way. I didn't post it here cuz i'm not really gonna count that.

[binder]

See post #155. Thats what i'm trying to do if i ever remember to. I think its working real well on my chest doesn't feel bad in anyway. Feels pumped up. I usually give about 4mins between sets. Also at least 2 day between workouts. Recently as you can tell with the log, i've been waiting longer inbetween workouts. This isn't on purpose, just i'm in the middle of my project truck. Anyway thanks again for your input and i will consider it.

you went up to a 1 rep max (270) then down to 185x10 then 135x20

that is too big of a drop in weight with too many reps for it to be a proper "drop set". Drop sets will be done immediately (without any rest at all) after the next and usually have a 10-15% drop in weight. You also don't want to do them right after a 1 rep max. The idea is to tax the muscle over a medium rep range then drop immediately down in weight and tax it to failure and do that 3 times. That will exhaust the muscle fibers and cause the body to recruit as many muscle fibers as possible. Any rest between drop sets and the momentum is lost. Also, if you can do too many reps then you haven't dropped enough to overtax the muscles. You should shoot for 3-4 reps each drop set, which usually is about a 10% drop in weight.

This also rushes a high amount of blood into the area to help speed recover and it gives the muscle huge "pump". You don't want to use drop sets every time though. It breaks down a large amount of muscle so it's very taxing. Great change of pace for the muscles though.

Your setup there looked just like a ramp up/ramp down type pyramid with the last set to failure.

don't take this the wrong way but i'm confused on how you are worried 4 sets of an exercise for the shoulders was over training yet 9 sets for the chest isn't? the shoulders are actually larger and faster recovering than the pectorals.

[jc95605]

Ok why don't you go ahead and give me a dropset that you think will work. The workout i'm doing is based off someone's elses input. And hey...he could be wrong. So lets gets your and i'll try it and we'll see how we like it.

[binder]

Ok why don't you go ahead and give me a dropset that you think will work. The workout i'm doing is based off someone's elses input. And hey...he could be wrong. So lets gets your and i'll try it and we'll see how we like it.

Well, i don't know your strength but the basis of most drops sets is to do a 3 sets of an exercise with about 8 rep. So pick a weight you can get 8 reps and it works you out pretty hard. Then take that same weight, do a set of 8 then drop 10% of the weight off immediately and knock out as many as you can (which usually ends up being under 5) then take 10% of that weight off and knock out more. you do 3 weight "drops". Each time dropping about 10% of the weight. So if you choose 200lbs on your sets of 8 you would then after the 4th one with no rest drop to 180lbs and press then drop down about 10% again (so 160 would be close enough) and knock out some then immediately to 145. When you get done your muscles will be pumped hard and you'll be burnt. It fries the muscles hard.

The key is no rest. If you start resting then it's just a pyramid, not a drop set.

I'm not saying pyramids don't work. But to say a pyramid is a drop set is incorrect. The rest between sets on a pyramid changes the way the muscles are worked completely.

[ray0414]

ever do incline barbell bench?

[jc95605]

Well, i don't know your strength but the basis of most drops sets is to do a 3 sets of an exercise with about 8 rep. So pick a weight you can get 8 reps and it works you out pretty hard. Then take that same weight, do a set of 8 then drop 10% of the weight off immediately and knock out as many as you can (which usually ends up being under 5) then take 10% of that weight off and knock out more. you do 3 weight "drops". Each time dropping about 10% of the weight. So if you choose 200lbs on your sets of 8 you would then after the 4th one with no rest drop to 180lbs and press then drop down about 10% again (so 160 would be close enough) and knock out some then immediately to 145. When you get done your muscles will be pumped hard and you'll be burnt. It fries the muscles hard.

The key is no rest. If you start resting then it's just a pyramid, not a drop set.

I'm not saying pyramids don't work. But to say a pyramid is a drop set is incorrect. The rest between sets on a pyramid changes the way the muscles are worked completely.

One of my goals that i have right now is to bench 300lbs. today the owner/trainer of the gym said that if i can get 300 he'd give me a free shirt, lol. I already wanted to get 300 but now i get a shirt! Will these dropsets increase my strength fairly quickly or will the "pyrmids" work better? What do you think?

[jc95605]

ever do incline barbell bench?

I have before, i didn't really like them all that much. Its funny you should mention that, recently i was thinking of adding either the decline or incline. I thought with all the benching i've been doing and with doing the BB miliary press in front of my head that i was already working that part of the pecs. However, then i switched to doing the military press behind my head which targets the traps more. So now i could actually do it but then i'm being told that i'm overtraining my chest. I honestly don't know if i'll add it right now. Lemme figure out the flat bench thing first then we'll look at adding another excercise. Although those cables curls i started doing really kick my ass but we'll see.

[binder]

ever do incline barbell bench?

wow, that's a good idea. that and declines.

honestly, i think that dropsets do more for size gains than strength gains. there are strength gains involved, but i think due to the breakdown of many fibers i think that there is more benefit to size gain for dropsets. that is my "opinion". I would have to ask some of the power lifters what their experience is on it. I think most of them use drop sets to keep their workouts going. They only add them in there to keep from plateauing in gains.

In all honesty, the one true way to gain lbs in bench press is to do bench press. The other exercises will make your chest stronger and bigger, but it won't really make you a better bench presser. I totally suck at flat bench. I have a good incline and decline bench and my DB work is actually pretty good. I'm using 45's for my db flys so i have a pretty strong chest, but i just don't work well with a flat bench.

The pyramid would probably give you a better chance at putting weight on that bar because you are going to a 1 rep max. I would, however, lower the amount of reps you are using going up to that 1 rep so you aren't as worn out. That would help that 1 rep go up. I think most do something like a 10, 8, 6, 4,3,2,1 style. I leave out the 10 reps and just do the 864321 then hit a 4 rep again. All your reps on those heavier weights is good for growth but i think if you could put lbs on that 1 rep or even increase that 2 rep then your body will start responding more to a heavier load.

also, have you tried doing isometric holds? You'll load up something heavier than you can press, unrack it and just hold it for 30 seconds or so, then rack it. That forces the body to get used to having that heavier load on it. It's kind of a trick on your nervous system to adapt to it.b

[jc95605]

Ok maybe i'll do the 864321. I really like the pyrmids so i kinda wanna keep with those for another 4 weeks. I notice my chest getting a lil bigger in size already and i've only been doing them for 2wks i think. When i switch up my routine again i think i'll do flat, incline, decline, 3 sets of each. what you think of that?

[ghettoboyd]

id do incline first when your strongest. i find when i do them first it makes flat bench seem easyer.same when you go down to decline after flatbench.

[binder]

Ok maybe i'll do the 864321. I really like the pyrmids so i kinda wanna keep with those for another 4 weeks. I notice my chest getting a lil bigger in size already and i've only been doing them for 2wks i think. When i switch up my routine again i think i'll do flat, incline, decline, 3 sets of each. what you think of that?

that sounds like a good plan. I always switch up what i start with from week to week. I'll let you know one thing though, the only way to get stronger on bench is to do bench.

[jc95605]

Damn just got my computer back. Anyway, you think the 3 set of incline, flat, and decline (in that order) should be dropsets or just work my way up like i normally do?

[3dbigrigs]

where are the pics bro,. again thanks for staying on the log....!

[jc95605]

I'm thinking i'll take some in a couple of days.

[ray0414]

incline brings more mass than flat. and u can probably already do 300 if u didnt do 5 sets before it. according to bench press charts, if u can do 225 10times your 1 rep max is about 300. of course if yoru going to do this u want to warm up ur arms shoulders and back too a lil bit so your body is ready for a heavy load, not too much but just enough.

[jc95605]

I kinda wanna try it just to try it. I don't wanna waste my whole chest workout day tho. After I do 300lbs i probably won't be able to move for awhile, lol.

[ray0414]

I kinda wanna try it just to try it. I don't wanna waste my whole chest workout day tho. After I do 300lbs i probably won't be able to move for awhile, lol.

this is why "maxing out" is for high school kids. also, throw in some negatives. and by lifting heavy on chest every week, i think your risking the chance for injury (doing sets at the end of only 1 or 2 reps). once u start getting real strong ur just gonna screw up your joints/elbows or possibly shoulders. once in a while maxing out probably wont hurt, maybe once a month at the most.

[jc95605]

Ya maxing out never made that much sense to me either. Why so i can brag? Thats not what i'm in it for. Anyway, i haven't maxed out since the last workout really. Before that i didn't know what my max was. So i'm thinking i'll continue with these pyrmids for another 4wks or so then swtich to the incline, flat, and decline mix.

[ray0414]

chart for bench max

http://keithpayne.homestead.com/files/estmax1.htm

[binder]

Damn just got my computer back. Anyway, you think the 3 set of incline, flat, and decline (in that order) should be dropsets or just work my way up like i normally do?

i would definitely not do 3 dropsets for chest in 1 workout. I would only add a dropset every couple weeks or so. It really burns out your muscles fast.

I would use a good pyramid. I wouldn't do as many reps working your way up to your heavy weight like you do though. That is really wearing you out up to your 1 rep.

[jc95605]

Just letting you guys know that i started pct today. I'm starting with 50mgs x 2 of clomid with 20mgs x 2 of nolva. I was gonna do the adex today but i already and totally forgot about it.

Also again i've been working on my project truck and now its in the paint shop getting repainted. So I haven't had reliable transportation this week thats why i haven't been to the gym. Hopefully i'll conjure up a way to go tomorrow. If nothin else my truck should be done late tomorrow or early friday.