Frontloaded Test E/Tbol cycle

[AcePowerZ]

i do not think it will hurt to do front and side lat raises on the same day. Another thing is building your shoulder muscles will help increase your bench press, so remember that. Maybe the only reason the arm gains have not gained is the lack of missing a couple of workouts, but none the less I can deffinetly see the gains in the new pics. Good Work.

[jc95605]

Like i've said b4 i'm still lifting more so my strength has definately gone up just not my size, which is what my cycle goal was. So i'm right on track.

Thanks for the info about the shoulder raises. As I also stated b4 shoulders are my weak point. I don't know much about them, but I think altering excercies every other workout will sort of keep my body guessing so i think in that sense it MIGHT be more effective. Either way I'll continue my research and consider your input.

[binder]

you are way underworking your shoulders.

you are only doing 2 shoulder exercises on your shoulder days. Every time you do shoulders you need to hit all 3 deltoid areas. Anterior, lateral, and posterior. I told you this in the PM.

the lateral raises will work your lateral delt. front raises will work your anterior delt. You don't even have a posterior delt workout in any of those which will make your back small and weak. You are going to overdevelop the anterior shoulder and pec and have a weak back which will keep you from your maximum strength.

You need to hit all areas of the shoulders every workout. I do at least 4 exercises per muscle group every workout. 2 exercises is well below par. It takes 2 exercises just to get me pumped up.

[jc95605]

Maybe your an over achiever, lol. No I appreciate all input. Can you give me some examples of the posterior shoulder excercises? I guess I have to do them all on my shoulder day. Damnit Binder, thanks alot.

[GT2]

Maybe your an over achiever, lol. No I appreciate all input. Can you give me some examples of the posterior shoulder excercises? I guess I have to do them all on my shoulder day. Damnit Binder, thanks alot.

Rear dumbbell flyes will work the posterior head.
I like to warm up with military, then do working sets for real flyes, then sets for military (barbell ofcourse), and finish up with lateral raises. I believe the front (anterior) delt gets enough work when benching/incline benching and even when doing military press.

[jc95605]

Awesome i'll try this next shoulder workout. I appreciate the input. As you can see its been hard going to the gym lately. My S-10 project has been taking way too much time. But it'll soon be worth it. Thanks again guys.

[jc95605]

What do you think of this for a shoulder workout:

Barbell shoulder press=front shoulders
lateral shoulder raises=shoulder sides
Bent over lateral shoulder raises=back shoulders

What you guys think? Good for a shoulder workout? Lemme know, again any input is appreciated.

[GT2]

What do you think of this for a shoulder workout:

Barbell shoulder press=front shoulders
lateral shoulder raises=shoulder sides
Bent over lateral shoulder raises=back shoulders

What you guys think? Good for a shoulder workout? Lemme know, again any input is appreciated.

Sounds good bro.
However, personally I don't like to start my shoulder workout with the big shoulder/military press. Try starting it with the bent over raises (i.e. rear flyes), as this will warm the shoulders up alot more, and then doing the shoulder/military press as the 2nd shoulder exercise.

[jc95605]

Is this how you do it? Have you had better results doing it that way? I'm curious to know your reasoning behind it. Sounds good to me tho. Anybody else have any thoughts?

[binder]

i always start with my power exercise: overhead press. heavy. period.

[halobolic]

damn you got so much bigger than before cycle only two months and you got ****in huge before u looked like a punk azz bizatch

[jc95605]

lol.....umm thanks? I just started wk 12 yesterday got another 1.5 wks to go. I finally go to go to the gym today. I'll post that tomorrow, i'm too tired now. I lowered my truck and planning that, calling the tech lines and everything has taken all my damn gym time. Anyway hopefully now i can focus more on the gym.

[jc95605]

August 22nd
Workout Day 25
Cycle Day 82
Weight 171lbs


As always the changes are in red and left-arm only are in green.

BB flat bench: 155lbsx12, 185lbsx10, 205lbsx10, 225lbsx8, 245lbsx5, 185lbsx10, 135xfailure (22)

Pec-Dec Flys (machine): 100lbsx10, 110lbsx10, 120lbsx20, 130lbsx10

Chest Dips: 10, 10, 10

Hammer Curls: 40lbsx10, 40lbsx10, 40lbsx10

Alternate Curls: 40lbsx10, 40lbsx10, 40lbsx10

Forearm Curls: 25lbsx15, 25lbsx15, 25lbsx15

Tricep Pulldown (rope attachment): 80lbsx10, 80lbsx10, 80lbsx10

Tricep Pulldown (triangle attachment): 55lbsx10, 55lbsx10, 55lbsx10


BB Bench (dropsets)-This is the second time I did these dropsets and i think their highly effective. First off its been 9 days since i worked out my chest and i still have a pump from it. So i was more than eager to do it again. As you can see even tho i had to take 9 days off i still managed to go up in reps. I was kinda surprised with that successful return to the gym.

[jc95605]

August 23rd

I got my bodyfat check again today and i measured in at 13.1%. About 3-4 weeks into this cycle I measured at 16.5%. So in about 8 weeks of test only i went from 16.5% to 13.1%, a 3.4% drop in bodyfat. I dunno if this is a really good drop or not but i'm more than happy with it. I guess changing your dieting and taking a fair to low dose of clen actually works. Imagine the upcoming tren cycle!

[jc95605]

August 25th
Workout Day 26
Cycle Day 85
Weight 173lbs


As always the changes are in red and left-arm only are in green.

BB flat bench: 155lbsx12, 185lbsx10, 205lbsx10, 225lbsx10, 245lbsx5, 265lbsx1

Pec-Dec Flys (cables): 30lbsx10, 30lbsx10, 30lbsx10

Chest Dips: 6

Hammer Curls: 40lbsx10, 40lbsx10, 40lbsx10

Alternate Curls: 40lbsx10, 40lbsx10, 40lbsx10

Forearm Curls: 25lbsx15, 25lbsx15, 25lbsx15

Tricep Pulldown (rope attachment): 80lbsx10, 80lbsx10, 80lbsx10

Tricep Pulldown (triangle attachment): 55lbsx10, 55lbsx10, 55lbsx10


BB Bench (dropsets)-Again i had a awesome pump walking into the gym this time. For some reason as i was benching i wanted to go up and see what i could do. As you can see i hit 265lbs. This is the highest i've ever been b4.

Cable flys (cables)-Well i said awhile back ago that i wanted to change my pec-dec fly excercise a lil, that i've been doing it way too long. Well when i was about to start it i noticed this other guy doing cable flys slightly different. I went over there and asked him about it and he said that they killed your chest. I decided why not? I tried 30lbsx10, slightly less that was he doing. Holy shit they did! My chest felt blasted after i did these, it was great. So much so that when i went to do the chest dips it just wasn't gonna happen, lol.

[jc95605]

August 27th
Workout Day 27
Cycle Day 86
Weight 173lbs


*As always the changes are in red.

BB Military Press (behind head): 55lbsx10, 55lbsx10, 65lbsx10

Front lateral Raise: 25lbsx7, 25lbsx7, 25lbsx7

Side Lateral Raise: 15lbsx7, 15lbsx7, 15lbsx7

Upright Row: 55lbsx10, 65lbsx10, 65lbsx10

Hanging Leg Raises: 25, 25, 25

Combinaton situp (machine): 30lbsx25, 30lbsx25, 30lbsx25

Ab machine: 5lbsx25, 5lbsx25, 5lbsx25

BB Military Press-So today i added a few things. First would be the BB military press. Now i've been doing this for awhile but when i've been doing it i would lower the BB in front up my face to about my neck. This time i lowered it behind my head and felt alot of stress. This seems to be weaker. Also this time i really felt it work my rear delts and traps. Since i need alot of work there i think i'll keep doing them behind my head.

Upright Row-The next change would be the addition of the upright row. The majority of ppl have said that this excercise is highly effective. I would have to agree. I think i had incorrect form and i still felt it. Today when i was doing the reps i would go as high as my chest. Looking at a video online i see that i have to go all the way up to my neck. Although this will be harder, it will also be more effective. Next time i do it i'm gonna get the trainer to give me a demonstration, although after watching that video i think i know what to do. Either way i wanna make sure i perform the excercise correctly to get the best results.

[binder]

August 27th

BB Military Press-So today i added a few things. First would be the BB military press. Now i've been doing this for awhile but when i've been doing it i would lower the BB in front up my face to about my neck. This time i lowered it behind my head and felt alot of stress. This seems to be weaker. Also this time i really felt it work my rear delts and traps. Since i need alot of work there i think i'll keep doing them behind my head.

you're stronger in your chest than your shoulders. behind the head works the shoulders directly without recruiting (or recruiting a very small percentage) of the upper pectoral muscles.

[jc95605]

So you think I should keep doing it behind my head? I like the fact that it worked my upper chest too. I was thinking about switching it every other workout. But, since my shoulders are so much weaker than my chest i think i'll strengthen them up first then start switching it up. Maybe after 6wks or so.

[binder]

I would work on shoulders since that is your lagging area. You'll see more progression by improving a slow area instead of increasing an already stronger area.

[jc95605]

Also looking to add a couple of back excercises now. Leaning more towards compound excercises or ones that work more than one specific part of the back. Any suggestions will be welcomed and appreciated.

[ray0414]

i have a couple questions for you. how much weightlifting experience did u have before starting your cycle? From reading hte beginning of your log, it seems u were only lifting chest and arms, is this correct? then u later added shoulders to your work outs. from what ive learned, by doing this u were begging for an injury of some sort by not having your tendons prepared for heavy workloads. how many times a week do u work out? if your on juice u should be at least working out 3 times per week no excuses, if your goin to juice u have to be ready to do it right. chest and arms should be on seperate days no matter what, if not then your greatly hindering gains. everything u are working out is way too short. u should be doing 4-6 exersizes for each body part, not 2. me and u are pretty much hte same size its too bad we cant work out together, im planning on doing my first cycle as soon as my shoulder is ready to go, but im only doing a TBOL only cycle.

[jc95605]

I've been working out off and on for about 4yrs now. I was in the military and couldn't always do it due to scheduling. But ya I mostly cared about chest and arms. More recently in the past 1.5-2yrs i start caring more about shoulders too. I did a lil back but not enough to mention. Then i got deployed and had to work 16hr days. Thats where the off and on came in, lol. I've tried splitting up chest and arms but this works better for me. Usually ppl do chest and tris and bis and back. I tried that but i didn't feel as good of a workout. So i went back to my way. The important thing about weightlifting is that you have to do what works for you. This is what works for me, you may be different. Now i workout about 3-4 days a week (with the exception of last week). I like to do about 3 excercises per muscle group. If i do more i'm either overtraining that muscle or the weight isn't high enough. You can do 6 excercises per muscle group but you'll have to have the weight a lil lower then you start cutting up instead of building and thats NOT what i'm going for. Your goals may be different from mine in any case I think you should do whats best for you. Also you should consider 500mgs of test e for about 12 wks. It works suprisly well.

[AdamGH]

Also looking to add a couple of back excercises now. Leaning more towards compound excercises or ones that work more than one specific part of the back. Any suggestions will be welcomed and appreciated.

Barbell rows
dumbbell rows
seated cable rows
smith machine rows
two arm dumbbell rows

[jc95605]

I'll look them up. Appreciate it Adam. Anybody else have anything?

[ray0414]

the split of excersizes u just listed, in my opionion as well as some other peoples, u could hurt the smaller muscle group by combining it with a big muscle group which is probably why u didnt feel it (doing chest and tris, u will hurt your tri's) (doing back and bi's, u will hurt your bi's workout). if size is what you want, then u definitely want to lift them all on different days so u can focus on that muscle group and have full energy for the workout (chest one day, arms another day, back another day)
as for back, 2 great excersizes everyone should do, t-bar rows and pullups with straps so your hands dont get tired.) i started doing pullups as my staple for back and it got my back pretty ripped and eventually had to add weight.

[jc95605]

How long would you say til your back got "ripped" and you had to add weight. How many sets and reps did you do?

[binder]

Yes, this is true i haven't seen back any back exercises in there. By not doing back and having a strong chest you are going to get a severe imbalance which will make you injury prone. Also, the back muscles are huge muscles...if you're trying to get big i don't know why you wouldn't want to bulk up these awsome muscles.

also, how do you know you're overtraining your muscles? do you hit severe fatigue later on with muscle atrophy? because that's over training. If you're just sore the next day or even for a few days that isn't over training, that is optimal training. You should feel those muscles loud and clear the next day and be slightly sore for a few days. I don't think i would come close to getting the gains i wanted with 2 exercises. I do 3 exercises at the least. Hell, you're only hitting that muscle group 1 time a week. If you're hitting it 3 times a week then i could see reducing the exercises but 1 time a week, blow them out! you have 7 full days of recovery. People are too scared of overtraining and in turn don't train hard enough and wonder why they aren't getting good gains. During my build phases of 6 weeks at a time, i'm continuously sore. If i don't wake up with a sore muscle group then I feel that i didn't train hard enough. I can sustain this for 6-8 weeks and still have an overall good feeling therefore i'm not over training.

We need to post a huge sticky on what over training really is so people will understand. It's not soreness. It's a whole body problem when you get fatigued and can't function normal. That doesn't happen after 1 workout. It happens after training too hard for multiple weeks on end. When you are on a cycle, it's even harder to over train because your body will repair faster. On cycles i train twice a day.

[jc95605]

Whats all this about me saying because i was sore i was overtraining? When did i say that?

[ray0414]

i dont remember how long it tooked, probably a few months, getting a ripped lean look takes time, u have to do something over a long period of time WITH CONSISTANCY in order for your body/muscles to take shape. when doing pullups to work back u want palms out not palms facing you, a nice wide grip but not too wide and u want to be able to control yourself going down too. u can start adding weight once u can do 10 pullups very easily. the thing about working back is u really have learn how to pinch your lats on your excersizes and get that squeeze. when i started doing back i did alot dumbbell rows too, and make sure u stretch your lats out alot, gives them room to grow and they dont get all tight.

[binder]

I like to do about 3 excercises per muscle group. If i do more i'm either overtraining that muscle or the weight isn't high enough. You can do 6 excercises per muscle group but you'll have to have the weight a lil lower then you start cutting up instead of building and thats NOT what i'm going for.

Whats all this about me saying because i was sore i was overtraining? When did i say that?

You didn't say sore, but a lot of people do. It was a blanket statement. How do you know you're overtraining the muscles? Overtraining doesn't happen on one training session, it happens over a period of weeks when you don't allow the body to rest. It's huge fatigue, as in not being able to even move that muscle group without pain if you have the energy to move at all.

And you can bulk with 6 exercises. 6 is a little high, 4 or 5 yes. One of the best regimens i've heard some powerlifters use is the 5 5's. that's 5 sets of 5 for each exercise. If you have to use a lower weight on subsequent exercises for that muscle group then that's ok. Your muscles don't know how much each weight there is. For power you choose a weight that you can hit 4-6 reps on. if you just did heavy chest then for your incline chest you have to use less weight so you can push out 6 reps then so be it. You're still getting a great muscle workout because it's expending all the energy you have to knock out 6 reps. Weight is just a mental thing. You base your exercises on clean reps. For shaping and toning you'll use about 8-12 reps so you should be pushing your body hard on the last few reps. for the 6 rep range that last one should be a struggle. Your body just knows the stress it creates to get this struggle. Muscles are dumb, they don't know "uh oh, we are 10lbs lighter this week so we're not going to get as good of a workout" when in reality you just did that exercise first on the previous workout and you performed it last on this workout. That's another reason why i change up the order of my exercises each week.

[AcePowerZ]

Quick Question... Did you run your AI your entire cycle or just save it incase of gyno?

[jc95605]

Only in case of gyno. I used adex.

[jc95605]

Maybe thats what i'll do then binder. The only problem with it is that i'll have to go to the gym everyday. And while that may be fine for you its not for me. 4 days a week is proving to be a pain in the ass and sometimes isn't accomplishable. So with going 4days a week i try to knock out everything while i'm there without spending 3hrs there. Once i hit 2.5hrs i'm extremely bored and just wanna go. So basically i do as much as i can within 2.5hrs.

[binder]

right now i'm only on a 4 day a week training schedule because i work full time at the hospital and i'm taking 18 hours for school with an internship. life sucks but i'll never cut my gym time short.

i do a workout that Ray wouldn't like so much because i work a large group with a small group. as of right now my workout looks like this:

mon: chest/bicep
tues: legs (every other week i alternate dead lifts and RDL's in the rotation)

thurs: Back/tricep
fri: Shoulders

I hit abs about twice a week now since i'm working more power so i'm reducing my auxiliary exercises. Likewise i hit forearms and calves about twice. After 6 weeks of power i'll go back to my all around workout and pull back in those extra muscles for symmetry.

I also will alternate from chest/bi, back/tri to chest/tri, back/bi. Generally i like working opposite muscle groups so pushing with the chest and pull with the bicep. Otherwise i feel i work my triceps too much during a workout.

I'm not saying you are doing a bad workout. I'm not one to judge anyone because i'm not some huge pro bodybuilder or power lifter. I just think you aren't working to your potential.

[jc95605]

August 30th
Workout Day 28
Cycle Day 89
Weight 178lbs


As always the changes are in red.

BB flat bench: 155lbsx12, 185lbsx10, 205lbsx10, 225lbsx10, 245lbsx6, 265lbsx1, 270lbsx1, 185lbsx10, 135xfailure (20)

Pec-Dec Flys (cables): 30lbsx10, 40lbsx10, 40lbsx10

Chest Dips: 10, 10, 6

Hammer Curls: 40lbsx10, 40lbsx10, 40lbsx10

Alternate Curls: 40lbsx10, 40lbsx10, 40lbsx10

Tricep Pulldown (rope attachment): 80lbsx10, 80lbsx10, 80lbsx10

Tricep Pulldown (triangle attachment): 55lbsx10, 55lbsx10, 55lbsx10


BB Bench (dropsets)-Again i had a awesome pump walking into the gym this time and again i wanted to see how high i could go today. I think because of the awesome pump that i have when i walk in there makes me have the "just go for it" additude. Last time i was tired after i hit 265lbs so i didn't go back down it weight. Well today when i did 265lbs the owner/trainer of the gym said he thinks i could do 270lbs. Well with him saying that plus my additude that day i had to go for it. Sure enough i was able to put up 270lbs, my new highest ever! I tried to do 2reps but it just wasn't happening, he had to come in with the spot. But i was disappointed with the last workout because i didn't go back down with the weight. So today i made sure i tried to go back down. So after the 270lbs, i went down 2 weights to 185lbs then to 135lbs. I gotta say that second time i did 185lbs was the heavyiest 185lbs ever felt.

Cable flys (cables)-Last week was the first time i started this excercise, man did i feel it. Guess it really was time for a change. When i did the first set of 30lbs it didn't feel as hard as last time. Even after that hard set of dropsets. So of course, i added weight. I went up to 40lbs on the last 2 sets. That seemed to be the right spot.

[3dbigrigs]

wow your bench has really increased since you began. Great JOb. !!!!!!!!! I noticed you are stuck a bit on hammer curls, why not preacher curls or BB curls both really work the biceps. also skull crushers are great for triceps

[jc95605]

Its funny you should mention that. I was actually thinking about switching to 21's next week. I've noticed that for some reason i just can't seem to get past 40lbs. I was gonna try 45lbs but i didn't think i would be able to finish my set. So maybe next week i'll switch to 21's. But you guys won't know the cycle log isn't gonna be here past tomorrow. Unless you guys want me to keep going?

[3dbigrigs]

Keep going on the log man even through PCT, so we know what you keep and such. also sides.. and yeah I forgot about 21s I do those every other week, and they will wreck you biceps, in a good way.

[wukillabee]

the split of excersizes u just listed, in my opionion as well as some other peoples, u could hurt the smaller muscle group by combining it with a big muscle group which is probably why u didnt feel it (doing chest and tris, u will hurt your tri's) (doing back and bi's, u will hurt your bi's workout). if size is what you want, then u definitely want to lift them all on different days so u can focus on that muscle group and have full energy for the workout (chest one day, arms another day, back another day)
as for back, 2 great excersizes everyone should do, t-bar rows and pullups with straps so your hands dont get tired.) i started doing pullups as my staple for back and it got my back pretty ripped and eventually had to add weight.

Exactly, what i do for size that works great for me is a routine like this:
Monday: Chest/abs/cardio
Tuesday: Back/calfs/cardio
Wednesday: Shoulders/abs/cardio
Thursday: Legs/calfs/cardio
Friday: Arms/abs/cardio
Sat and sun: Off
This works great for me. DO calfs twice a week cus theyre laggin. Not gonna do all the hw for u but go on bb.com, they have very detailed with videos/pics on how to do any and all workouts.

[wukillabee]

When im cutting i have a routine like this:
Monday: CHest/tris/abs/cardio
Tuesday: Back/bis/calfs/cardio
Wednesday: off or cardio/abs
Thursday: Legs/calfs or abs/cardio
Friday: Shoulders/abs/cardio
Sat and sunff or cardio

SOmetimes i switch thursday and friday and on monday and tuesday i do tris and bis with slightly lighter weight for more concentrated reps and tons of intensity like 21's, drop sets, super/giant sets, etc. These 2 routines work great for me for my specific goals, always try to change up the workouts but use this workout routine. When u do heavy chest and shoulders ur indirectly hitting ur tris too. Same when doing heavy back ur indirectly hitting ur bis as well. Thats why when i train for size/strength i do chest and back days solo and arms solo all on different days. FOr defenition and stamina i work chest/tris and back/bis same days (as stated in above routine) but when doin the smaller muscle groups such as bis and tris its more strict and with slightly lighter weight so i dont overtrain them or cause any injuries. Not everyone is the same and it took years of countless routines and excercises for me to find what really works for me and my goals. Its all trial and error bro till u find what really works for u! I got arnold's bbing book (like 700 pages) like 5yrs ago and thats what gave me all kinds of ideas and ways to find out what works for me. I suggest picking it up to get a better understanding, well worth the 30 bucks bro. Can find it online or any major bookstore like crown's or barnes and noble. Also like i said bodybuilding.com has tons detaled routines for u to try out as well for free.
Just my .02 bro.